Refused payment from Silver Oak Casino!

bgermain1985

Full Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Location
Nashua NH
I registered with a 150$ no deposit free chip on Silver Oaks.
While playing, I triggered a Random Jackpot for over 4k$ with my remaining playthrough at about 3.6k

So I say to myself, OK - lets bet 100$ a spin to resolve the remaining playthrough since it doesn't matter much anyways.
Now, the thing with the bonus coupons today is that when you beat the playthrough, the excess amount is withdrawn
to the maximum alotted. The money moves from a bonus state into a cash state.

Well, due to the lag in the transaction process and my excited spinnage, the bonus money removed itself, and my balance was 150$
as I clicked the 100$ bet spin button again.

NOOOOOO, but then, wait?!? I triggered the feature!!

Total win is approximately 9,000$!! How exciting :D

So I check out the transaction history and low and behold, the automatic withdrawal for the extra
bonus money did in fact happen (it was some -5,000 adjustment abouts.)

Now, my account has about 9,300 USD in it and I have submitted my faxback forms.

~ Based on the occurance of events, I should be entitled to the full amount! The question lies in the payout process ~

Confirmation email is then received regarding the documents! Request for withdrawals made and they are currently sitting in a pending status...


It continues.

1/12/2010
All requests were cancelled and the total amount removed from my account.
However, the amount for 150$ was still approved...

1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Approved! ($9,150.00)
1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Requested ($9,150.00)
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:58 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:30 PM Bank Check / Draft Withdrawal Declined $650.00
1/12/2010 12:50:30 PM Bank Check / Draft Withdrawal Approved! ($150.00)
1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71)
1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71)
1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150 ' redeemed $150.00
1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150' requested




Chat log continues as followed:

A site operator will be with you momentarily. Please be reminded, in order to ensure your future deposits and withdrawals are processed efficiently, it is very important to verify that we have your current personal information updated in our system along with any documentation necessary for withdrawals. Thank you for your cooperation.
Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Amanda'. How can I help you?
Amanda: Hello, Welcome to Silver Oak Casino!
Brandon Germain: hello Amanda,
Brandon Germain: a recent cashout request was declined and the amount was removed
Brandon Germain: can you provide information regarding this?
Brandon Germain: hello?
Amanda: im here
Amanda: sorry
Amanda: may i have the username please?
Brandon Germain: bgermain
Brandon Germain: I would like some understanding and explanation regarding the current status of my account
Brandon Germain: Basically, here is my end of the story:
Brandon Germain: If you can see the no deposit coupon was redeemed and played, the playthrough had completed and the excess funds removed
Brandon Germain: 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150 ' redeemed $150.00
Brandon Germain: At this point, I have cleared the playthrough and the amount was awarded as cash credit (no longer in a bonus status)
Brandon Germain: I continue to play and was very lucky to have won what I did.
Brandon Germain: I can understand if the excess was removed before playthrough was completed as the maximum coupon yield was 150$. However at the point the excess funds were removed, the coupon had resolved.
Amanda: One more moment. I apologize for the wait.
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Danny'.
Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Danny'. How can I help you?
Brandon Germain: Hey Danny
Danny: hello
Brandon Germain: has the previous transcript been transferred to you?
Brandon Germain: I was forwarded by Amanda.
Danny: allow me to catch up with the chat
Danny: be right with you
Brandon Germain: excellent.
Brandon Germain: take your time please
Danny: you have ($150.00) approved today
Danny: in about 7 business days it will be sent out
Danny: that is the max cash out on the free chip
Brandon Germain: I understand that, isn't that what this transaction represents though?
Brandon Germain: 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71)
Brandon Germain: the coupon itself was reduced to 150, and the balance was transferred from bonus into cash.
Brandon Germain: it was at that point I continued to play and was very lucky enough to continue my winnings.
Danny: yes Coupon Reversal It means that the playthrough amount is completed, leaving you with the cash able amount from the free chip you used.
Danny: which is $150 we denied and kept every single penny
Danny: and we only send you $150
Danny: Is there anything else that I can help you with?
Brandon Germain: right I understand that
Brandon Germain: so I was left with the cashable amount - please do not misunderstand
Brandon Germain: I'm simply trying to understand
Brandon Germain: there's also the other transaction after that coupon reversal
Brandon Germain: 1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Approved! ($9,150.00) 1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Requested ($9,150.00)
Brandon Germain: this happened after the coupon reversal, after playing with the remaining cashable portion
Danny: yes that's right all happen as it should
Danny: your just making more complicated
Danny: forget everything and only focus on $150
Danny: understood ?
Brandon Germain: I do understand - so what you are saying is that, after coupon reversal happens, the amount leftover can only be withdrawn and cannot be played with?
Danny: yes
Danny: 10 business days from the 12th your $150 should be sent out
Danny: any other questions ?

Danny: Have fun and good luck!
Chat session has ended. This may have been a technical error.

*** I am typing at this point - less than 10 seconds to respond ***
 

SlotKing

New Member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Kentucky, ya'll...
This "Danny" character became a little unprofessional towards the end - if he had talked to me like that, I would have asked for his manager.

Danny: which is $150 we denied and kept every single penny
Danny: and we only send you $150

Danny: your just making more complicated
Danny: forget everything and only focus on $150
Danny: understood ?

:what::eek::confused:



However, since Silver Oak is part of the ever-rogued Crystal Palace group, good luck on getting any money from them. You can read about why they have been rogued (forever) here.

Also, you may not want to post your complaint over every Silver Oak thread there is - it makes the mods a little mad and only slows any resolving down.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Unfortunately, Bgermain...it wouldn't really matter which casino (RTG) you were playing, you would only be entitled to a certain amount (max cashout) on a free chip..in this case $150. That being said, get your $150 from these guys and don't ever go back. They are part of the Virtual stable of casinos, and you will probably have to do everything but send in DNA just to get the $150.

You were still technically playing on the free chip, even after the excess funds were removed after meeting playthrough...and as such, are limited to the max withdrawal of $150. This wouldn't matter if you were playing at this rogue outfit...or at one of the better RTG's. A no deposit chip is just that, and has its limitations.

Sidenote: Out of curiousity, I wonder if "Danny" is Virtual Danny? The attitude sounds about the same...but I thought he left that crooked outfit?

EDIT: SlotKing is right....they were part of the Crystal Palace (ROGUE) Group, but were rebranded Virtual, after Warren Cloud's demise. That's my understanding anyway. And you're right SlotKing...very rude and unprofessional. That's why I asked if it was the infamous Virtual Danny.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Be lucky if you get the $150 at all, and never deposit a penny in this casino. Even if your balance did get that high, there's no way you're going to see it.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
You are right - they are connected, but the jury is still out on whether they have the same support etc., etc.

In fact, I'm in the midst of reviewing their situation at the moment. After WC's demise, his partners wanted to rid themselves of the casinos and sold them to a firm in Costa Rica - which is connected to the Virtual Casino Group/Gambling Wages.

From there they were rebranded, and are now being marketed by Acerevenue, and they very well may have separate offices. Whether they are down the hall from each other or in separate buildings, who knows but them.

Virtual Danny is a fake name (hope you guys figured that one out already), and the guy who did work that shift moved on a couple of years ago. In fact, I heard he quit after the no pay fiasco of the $1.5 million winner. He was pretty much disgusted with everything that was going on there..

Anyways, looks like bgermain1985 got nailed with the free chip thingy. Shouldn't have been playing there...
 

bernynhel

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Los Angeles
I registered with a 150$ no deposit free chip on Silver Oaks.
While playing, I triggered a Random Jackpot for over 4k$ with my remaining playthrough at about 3.6k

So I say to myself, OK - lets bet 100$ a spin to resolve the remaining playthrough since it doesn't matter much anyways.
Now, the thing with the bonus coupons today is that when you beat the playthrough, the excess amount is withdrawn
to the maximum alotted. The money moves from a bonus state into a cash state.

Well, due to the lag in the transaction process and my excited spinnage, the bonus money removed itself, and my balance was 150$
as I clicked the 100$ bet spin button again.

NOOOOOO, but then, wait?!? I triggered the feature!!

Total win is approximately 9,000$!! How exciting :D

So I check out the transaction history and low and behold, the automatic withdrawal for the extra
bonus money did in fact happen (it was some -5,000 adjustment abouts.)

Now, my account has about 9,300 USD in it and I have submitted my faxback forms.

~ Based on the occurance of events, I should be entitled to the full amount! The question lies in the payout process ~

Confirmation email is then received regarding the documents! Request for withdrawals made and they are currently sitting in a pending status...


It continues.

1/12/2010
All requests were cancelled and the total amount removed from my account.
However, the amount for 150$ was still approved...

1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Approved! ($9,150.00)
1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Requested ($9,150.00)
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:58 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:30 PM Bank Check / Draft Withdrawal Declined $650.00
1/12/2010 12:50:30 PM Bank Check / Draft Withdrawal Approved! ($150.00)
1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71)
1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71)
1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150 ' redeemed $150.00
1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150' requested




Chat log continues as followed:

A site operator will be with you momentarily. Please be reminded, in order to ensure your future deposits and withdrawals are processed efficiently, it is very important to verify that we have your current personal information updated in our system along with any documentation necessary for withdrawals. Thank you for your cooperation.
Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Amanda'. How can I help you?
Amanda: Hello, Welcome to Silver Oak Casino!
Brandon Germain: hello Amanda,
Brandon Germain: a recent cashout request was declined and the amount was removed
Brandon Germain: can you provide information regarding this?
Brandon Germain: hello?
Amanda: im here
Amanda: sorry
Amanda: may i have the username please?
Brandon Germain: bgermain
Brandon Germain: I would like some understanding and explanation regarding the current status of my account
Brandon Germain: Basically, here is my end of the story:
Brandon Germain: If you can see the no deposit coupon was redeemed and played, the playthrough had completed and the excess funds removed
Brandon Germain: 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150 ' redeemed $150.00
Brandon Germain: At this point, I have cleared the playthrough and the amount was awarded as cash credit (no longer in a bonus status)
Brandon Germain: I continue to play and was very lucky to have won what I did.
Brandon Germain: I can understand if the excess was removed before playthrough was completed as the maximum coupon yield was 150$. However at the point the excess funds were removed, the coupon had resolved.
Amanda: One more moment. I apologize for the wait.
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Danny'.
Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Danny'. How can I help you?
Brandon Germain: Hey Danny
Danny: hello
Brandon Germain: has the previous transcript been transferred to you?
Brandon Germain: I was forwarded by Amanda.
Danny: allow me to catch up with the chat
Danny: be right with you
Brandon Germain: excellent.
Brandon Germain: take your time please
Danny: you have ($150.00) approved today
Danny: in about 7 business days it will be sent out
Danny: that is the max cash out on the free chip
Brandon Germain: I understand that, isn't that what this transaction represents though?
Brandon Germain: 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71)
Brandon Germain: the coupon itself was reduced to 150, and the balance was transferred from bonus into cash.
Brandon Germain: it was at that point I continued to play and was very lucky enough to continue my winnings.
Danny: yes Coupon Reversal It means that the playthrough amount is completed, leaving you with the cash able amount from the free chip you used.
Danny: which is $150 we denied and kept every single penny
Danny: and we only send you $150
Danny: Is there anything else that I can help you with?
Brandon Germain: right I understand that
Brandon Germain: so I was left with the cashable amount - please do not misunderstand
Brandon Germain: I'm simply trying to understand
Brandon Germain: there's also the other transaction after that coupon reversal
Brandon Germain: 1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Approved! ($9,150.00) 1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Requested ($9,150.00)
Brandon Germain: this happened after the coupon reversal, after playing with the remaining cashable portion
Danny: yes that's right all happen as it should
Danny: your just making more complicated
Danny: forget everything and only focus on $150
Danny: understood ?
Brandon Germain: I do understand - so what you are saying is that, after coupon reversal happens, the amount leftover can only be withdrawn and cannot be played with?
Danny: yes
Danny: 10 business days from the 12th your $150 should be sent out
Danny: any other questions ?

Danny: Have fun and good luck!
Chat session has ended. This may have been a technical error.

*** I am typing at this point - less than 10 seconds to respond ***

Oy vey...:rolleyes: If you print out your chat transcript, that paper will be worth more than you'll ever see outta these guys. Go to Vegas this weekend and drop $20k on the craps tables at Caesars, (or maybe Atlantic City, in your case but, for my money, it don't touch Caesars) least the service is tip-top. And ya might get lucky and get kissed by somebody during the act, which is always a nice touch when you're gettin' screwed.
 

bgermain1985

Full Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Location
Nashua NH
Oy vey...:rolleyes: If you print out your chat transcript, that paper will be worth more than you'll ever see outta these guys. Go to Vegas this weekend and drop $20k on the craps tables at Caesars, (or maybe Atlantic City, in your case but, for my money, it don't touch Caesars) least the service is tip-top. And ya might get lucky and get kissed by somebody during the act, which is always a nice touch when you're gettin' screwed.

Yes exactly! I figured I would at least get a good story out of this, wasnt too concerned (or hopeful) about the money. I wanted to make an example of them for the online community as a whole. :thumbsup:

Also, regarding the posting in multiple threads, I created this one before realizing an existing one was present so I thought to link them together :D - Not trying to spam so that's the only occurence.

Finally, I'm actually going to AC from 27-29, staying at Harrah's to play some poker. I would love to make some new friends if anyone wants to meet up! ( Probably a discussion for a different thread :) )
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Oy vey...:rolleyes: If you print out your chat transcript, that paper will be worth more than you'll ever see outta these guys. Go to Vegas this weekend and drop $20k on the craps tables at Caesars, (or maybe Atlantic City, in your case but, for my money, it don't touch Caesars) least the service is tip-top. And ya might get lucky and get kissed by somebody during the act, which is always a nice touch when you're gettin' screwed.

The last time I was at Caesars in Vegas, they had half nekkid girls pole-dancing in certain table game pits. :D As far as I know they did this every weekend. Does anyone know if they're still there??? If so, I'll be there again during my next trip :p
 

bernynhel

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Los Angeles
The last time I was at Caesars in Vegas, they had half nekkid girls pole-dancing in certain table game pits. :D

And the dealer's used to always know your name and what you drank. And one time a cocktail waitress was so stacked that when I turned to give her my drink order after, from over my shoulder, I heard her call, "Cocktails?", and my nose is about 2" from the low cut of her toga as she leans down to hear, all I could think to say was, "I'll have a quart a milk."
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Somewhere in the archives here is a thread about my dealings with Silver Oak. Oh, I got paid from them on my winnings from a free chip. Took about a month of hard work on my part. I kinda made it a crusade to get paid. :D

If you get the $150 or whatever the max cashout on the free chip was, you will be extremely lucky. Good luck.
 

Wildfire7

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Location
UK
Pinababy69 has it spot on here. The maximum cashout means just that, a maximum you can cash out no matter what the circumstances are.
Even if this happened at somewhere like 32Red you still should not be paid that 9k as 150 is the maximum allowed off the free chip.

As others have pointed out Silver oak is well rogued. So be greatful if you get the 150. If there were a league table of all casinos, this is one that would be right down at the foot of table. Silver Joke would have been a more apt name for them.

Mike
 

GGW Laurie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
In the Beautiful South !!
I hope they do send you the 150.00, then either buy yourself something nice or play it at a reputable casino, there are many listed in this forum, you might get lucky again and atleast, you"ll get paid:).............laurie
 

rockycatt

meistercatt
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Location
Boston
ok does any one think rtg is going to foward ths bigger hit $$money prize to silver oak and then they just poket it ??

i hope not
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This new thing RTG casinos do is VERY UNDERHAND, since it often means the player reaches the max cashout, but is tricked into playing it back because the adjustment is made on the spot, at a time when the player has no clue how close he is to meeting playthrough. This leads to a degree of over playing, often losing some or all of the max cashout back, whereas where the player checks the cashier, and withdraws knowing he has met playthrough, he will be able to get the max allowed.

This case is even worse, and is a case of RTG wanting their cake and eating it. If a player is ambushed by the in play adjustment and loses a little, they do NOT get given the original max cashout, yet if they WIN again, a SECOND adjustment is performed because although there has been the first adjustment, the player has not withdrawn the balance.

Other casinos with max cashouts will remove the excess, but NOT TWICE, they will allow the player to make the withdrawal request once they know they have met playthrough, and perform a single adjustment then.

This RTG system is NOT conducive to "entertainment", but to the player micro-managing their playthrough, and doing the required amout to the exact letter of the coupon rules, which is certainly NOT "in the spirit of" free money offers according to many casinos, who would consider this kind of micro-management of playthrough, followed by withdrawal, as "bonus abuse". This is certainly the view taken by Rival.

This RTG system is designed to make it even more improbable that a player playing mainly for entertainment will manage to stop playing at the exact moment playthrough is met, and managing to withdraw the maximum allowed.
It will take the discipline of a "bonus whore" to micro-manage their playthrough such that they are not caught out by the system, and end up losing back some of the max allowed cashout on bets they could never win from.

If this system is to be fair, it should also freeze the account from further play as well as making the adjustment, forcing the player to submit a withdrawal for the max allowed. This fairer approach could only cost casinos a little more, never less, which is why there is every incentive to do this in the current unfair manner.
 

zanzibar

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Location
Earth
I disagree with y'all who seem to be conditioned by the ridiculous policies these casinos try to run by us. He should be paid!

The casino withdrew his excess winnings over the $150 which makes it abundantly clear that the bonus is finished. Then what, he plays some more and wins and they want to do it again? Where is the upside. I am sure if he kept playing and lost the $150 they would not have said oh sorry here is your $150 back.

That is not on. Would they have paid if he withdrew $150 then made a deposit and then won? Its the same situation.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
This new thing RTG casinos do is VERY UNDERHAND, since it often means the player reaches the max cashout, but is tricked into playing it back because the adjustment is made on the spot, at a time when the player has no clue how close he is to meeting playthrough. This leads to a degree of over playing, often losing some or all of the max cashout back, whereas where the player checks the cashier, and withdraws knowing he has met playthrough, he will be able to get the max allowed.

This case is even worse, and is a case of RTG wanting their cake and eating it. If a player is ambushed by the in play adjustment and loses a little, they do NOT get given the original max cashout, yet if they WIN again, a SECOND adjustment is performed because although there has been the first adjustment, the player has not withdrawn the balance.

Other casinos with max cashouts will remove the excess, but NOT TWICE, they will allow the player to make the withdrawal request once they know they have met playthrough, and perform a single adjustment then.

This RTG system is NOT conducive to "entertainment", but to the player micro-managing their playthrough, and doing the required amout to the exact letter of the coupon rules, which is certainly NOT "in the spirit of" free money offers according to many casinos, who would consider this kind of micro-management of playthrough, followed by withdrawal, as "bonus abuse". This is certainly the view taken by Rival.

This RTG system is designed to make it even more improbable that a player playing mainly for entertainment will manage to stop playing at the exact moment playthrough is met, and managing to withdraw the maximum allowed.
It will take the discipline of a "bonus whore" to micro-manage their playthrough such that they are not caught out by the system, and end up losing back some of the max allowed cashout on bets they could never win from.

If this system is to be fair, it should also freeze the account from further play as well as making the adjustment, forcing the player to submit a withdrawal for the max allowed. This fairer approach could only cost casinos a little more, never less, which is why there is every incentive to do this in the current unfair manner.

I don't get it though. If a player is playing on a free chip, that free chip has a max cashout 99.99% of the time. Everyone, including newbies, should know this if not from experience, but from reading the T&C for free chips.

Even if there's money left over after the 1st "adjustment" as in this case, it still isn't the player's money to do with as they please.

Sure, they could play as long as they want to on the excess money after an adjustment and cashout, but the final word, plain and simple, is that they'll never be able to cash out any future winnings derived from that free chip. They're still playing off earnings of that free chip, and a max cashout rule is just what it says - you can't cash out over the stated amount.

Sure, it looks deceptive, but hey, free money is just that - free money. You would expect a casino to play by their own rules, and so should you.

I guess the only good thing about having a balance leftover after the 1st adjustment and cashing out the max, such as this case, is that you could continue playing to rack up comp points. Just don't expect to be able to w/d any of it.

This is a huge loophole in regards to free chips at any RTG casino, and I expect operators will plug it up in short order by adding a clause in their T&C specific to this situation.

edit: Perhaps it's time for a title change? The casino has already stated that they're going to pay the OP what he's due - $150, and that's it. That's the max cashout for the chip he was playing with, so that's all he's due.

edit2: Don't you think the Rival player that hit a 6 figure progressive at Irish Luck was gutted too? Since he was playing on a free chip and could only cash out a few hundred, if that? :rolleyes:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I don't get it though. If a player is playing on a free chip, that free chip has a max cashout 99.99% of the time. Everyone, including newbies, should know this if not from experience, but from reading the T&C for free chips.

Even if there's money left over after the 1st "adjustment" as in this case, it still isn't the player's money to do with as they please.

Sure, they could play as long as they want to on the excess money after an adjustment and cashout, but the final word, plain and simple, is that they'll never be able to cash out any future winnings derived from that free chip. They're still playing off earnings of that free chip, and a max cashout rule is just what it says - you can't cash out over the stated amount.

Sure, it looks deceptive, but hey, free money is just that - free money. You would expect a casino to play by their own rules, and so should you.

I guess the only good thing about having a balance leftover after the 1st adjustment and cashing out the max, such as this case, is that you could continue playing to rack up comp points. Just don't expect to be able to w/d any of it.

This is a huge loophole in regards to free chips at any RTG casino, and I expect operators will plug it up in short order by adding a clause in their T&C specific to this situation.

edit: Perhaps it's time for a title change? The casino has already stated that they're going to pay the OP what he's due - $150, and that's it. That's the max cashout for the chip he was playing with, so that's all he's due.

edit2: Don't you think the Rival player that hit a 6 figure progressive at Irish Luck was gutted too? Since he was playing on a free chip and could only cash out a few hundred, if that? :rolleyes:


The problem is the WAY this is done, the present system relies on the player noticing they have met playthrough, otherwise they can end up playing back money that IS theirs under the free chip rules.

If the adjustment is going to take place "on the fly", then so should the withdrawal. The adjustment should be made, and further play should be blocked until the player cashes out. Currently, the player CAN play after the adjustment, and as in this case, the play can be INVOLUNTARY if the player is using autoplay, since there is no setting that stops autoplay when playthrough is met & adjustment is made. Since the player cannot ever win on bets made from further play once on the max cashout amount, the software should NOT ACCEPT any further bets, and should prompt the player to make their withdrawal there & then.

In any case, since the industry is so eager to point out that they offer the games FOR ENTERTAINMENT, what the hell is wrong with a player deciding to play a little further with any balance they cannot withdraw. They could at least get to know a few more of the games, and have some more fun.

Rival casinos even penalise players who fail to play on after meeting the WR of a coupon, so why is this issue so different with RTG.

The ONLY purpose is for RTG casinos to benefit from accidental overplay, which leaves players with less than the max cashout.

Look at this case, the player noticed the adjustment, but before he could react, autoplay did one further spin. In this case he was dead lucky to get the feature, and still ended up with the $150 allowed. Had this extra spin LOST however, he would have had his bet unfairly deducted, since under these circumstances it should be considered void. This player suffered no detriment, but others in this situation HAVE met playthrough and ended on the max allowed after adjustment, but the reaction delay has caused further betting to take place bringing their final withdrawable balance below the max allowed. THIS is why the system is unfair, players who hit the max balance upon reaching WR should get to keep it, not be tricked out of it by cynically designed software. RTG know EXACTLY what they are doing, but of course will not publicly admit it, it will have to be dragged out of them.
 

gloria460

Meister Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Location
Florida
I had the same thing happen to me. It's time consuming to keep checking to see if you're close or have made playthru requirements. I was making 2.00 bets and my balance dropped from 440 to 48. I am glad that I was paying attention when it happened.

I do also agree that all he is supposed to be paid is 150.00 and hopefully he'll get paid.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I had the same thing happen to me. It's time consuming to keep checking to see if you're close or have made playthru requirements. I was making 2.00 bets and my balance dropped from 440 to 48. I am glad that I was paying attention when it happened.

I do also agree that all he is supposed to be paid is 150.00 and hopefully he'll get paid.

I am not disputing this, but had that extra spin LOST, he would only have been paid $50, not the $150 that he was due. The software simply should NOT have been taking further bets.

In your case, you had an extra $2 bet deducted before you could react, and you were paying attention, and kept on checking playthrough.

It is obvious what the idea is, the player THEN tries to get back up to the max cashout they had, and often loses EVERYTHING in the attempt.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
I very seldom get free chips anymore but I don't remember my balance ever being adjusted when I made playthrough or max cashout. I know that when I played the free chip at Silver Oak I was up to $900 at one point after I had made playthru. I knew I could only cashout $75, I just kept playing anyway for grins. As I recall, the T&C's were quite plain on the max cashout etc. To be fair, they didn't refuse to pay me, it just took over a month and a lot of stalling on their part.

I have won on free chips from Club World and Casino Titan and never had the balance removed until I made the withdrawal. I personally like CW because they have the playthru countdown box. Casino Titan doesn't and when I think I am getting close, I bug the stuffing out of CS. They should add the feature and I would let them alone. :D
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
I very seldom get free chips anymore but I don't remember my balance ever being adjusted when I made playthrough or max cashout.

This seems to be the norm nowadays for RTG's. Even Lock casino states in their T&C that anything over the max cashout will be automatically deducted once playthrough is met. I'm not sure if this applies for all of their bonuses that have a max cashout, but I saw this term listed for their 400% bonus which has a $5K max cashout.
 

rockycatt

meistercatt
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Location
Boston
it smacks of being rigged . and the big hit sets the hook it can be done [you can get a big win ] you just got to go back and deposite new money
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This seems to be the norm nowadays for RTG's. Even Lock casino states in their T&C that anything over the max cashout will be automatically deducted once playthrough is met. I'm not sure if this applies for all of their bonuses that have a max cashout, but I saw this term listed for their 400% bonus which has a $5K max cashout.

Well, RTG casinos have no excuse for calling "clock watchers" bonus abusers, it is now a REQUIREMENT to play a free chip to the exact amount of the WR.

It may be possible to trap this in autoplay though, try using "stop when balance falls by......", and it should stop as soon as the adjustment is made. This means you don't have to keep checking the playthrough meter, and in addition to this you could use a much lower stake to grind out the WR if only a little is left.

Just WHY RTG insisted on taking the entertainment factor out, and making free chips an exercise in "meter watching" defies belief. In the past this has been considered "bonus abuse", now it is considered compulsory.
 

zanzibar

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Location
Earth
I'd still like someone to explain the difference to me between what happened and him withdrawing the $150 then redepositing it and making the winning spin.

IMO there is none. Well except for the process in between which actually costs the casino money in labor and transaction costs.

The $150 was his money in the clear, bonus no longer attached. Their system said so. He should be paid.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Zanzibar,

Most casinos that give you a free chip have 2 things attached to the free chip - wager requirements and max cashout. A free chip is different from a deposit bonus.

If you get a free chip of $10 with playthru of 100x and max cashout of 10x then $100 is all you can get from that chip. Period.

It doesn't matter if you make playthru and they take all the other money away, the terms say $100 max cashout. If you reverse the withdrawal and continue playing, you are still playing on the original free chip and the max cashout stands. That's just the way it is and unless the casino is really really hinky, all of this is stated in the T&C's.
 
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