Non-Bonus Complaint Notarized ID ...Is it normal after 6 withdraws?

carsten

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Location
denmark
Hi all...

I am new to casinomeister...I am actually new to online casino world as well...started for about one month ago...tried about 20 different sites..just for fun...then one day i got an email from one casino giving me some no deposit bonusses...I said okk...one more chance to this casino...the day after i used this no-deposit bonus, i deposit like 30 euros get nice bonus...and volaaa...i had after nine hours playing 6000 euros...withdraw 4k..no problem...kept continue to playing...quite lucky..2.,3.,4.,5. withdraw...in one month i deposit 2k and withdraw 6k...but suddenly they now require Notarized ID for the last withdraw of 1500 euro....

I dont want to give any names or adress..just curious...because I am not complaining for now..

I sendt documentation today, (to Philipine!!!) Is it normal ? They will get it within one week..let see what happens..

Is this process normal? Why ? What else can they find?

Carsten!
 
As you mentioned you've sent the documents to eh Phillipines I think its a safe bet your dealing with a Playtech casino - whilst a lot of them pull these stunts from time to time, the one I hear it most about is undoubtedly the "Winner" group of casinos. They do pay out normally if the documents are in order, but I still wouldn't go through all the hassle personally - you have so many big names operating playtechs eg Coral, Gala, Ladbrokes, William Hill, Betfred, Paddy Power .. your VERY unlikely to get such treatment from these except in the most suspicious and exceptional circumstances - as opposed to Winner who will try it on rather than pay out a couple of grand here and there!
 
Hi all...

I am new to casinomeister...I am actually new to online casino world as well...started for about one month ago...tried about 20 different sites..just for fun...then one day i got an email from one casino giving me some no deposit bonusses...I said okk...one more chance to this casino...the day after i used this no-deposit bonus, i deposit like 30 euros get nice bonus...and volaaa...i had after nine hours playing 6000 euros...withdraw 4k..no problem...kept continue to playing...quite lucky..2.,3.,4.,5. withdraw...in one month i deposit 2k and withdraw 6k...but suddenly they now require Notarized ID for the last withdraw of 1500 euro....

I dont want to give any names or adress..just curious...because I am not complaining for now..

I sendt documentation today, (to Philipine!!!) Is it normal ? They will get it within one week..let see what happens..

Is this process normal? Why ? What else can they find?

Carsten!

No, this is NOT usual and we've heard all this BS many times before and I don't need to guess far that you've won at a Playtech casino (as stated above) and probably one of the smaller ones that also have the vile rogue term meaning 10k a month cash-out limits even if you win a progressive!!:mad: Believe it or not there was even a case on here where a player had to do this Philippines BS at Vernons concerning 42k winnings even though he was from the UK and Vernons are a UK company.

The reason is simple - they do not need this notarized stuff, but unfortunately many PT sites use this appalling tactic when players win too much and they know it induces negative 'what's the point?' feelings in that player who sees a large barrier in the form of weeks of delay to his withdrawal. So, in many cases he'll spunk it back after losing patience and close his account. You've simply hit the threshold of profit at which they obviously want to avoid paying, but do it underhandedly.

Do as they ask, do not reverse it and when you eventually get you money remember to play at large Playtechs funded by the bookies' firms like Paddy Power, Ladbrokes, BoyleSports etc.

Read this - Vernons especially are notorious for this, Fly have done it and several others. It's extremely rare for non-Playtech sites to do this, as most have access or purchase credit checks and use databases to KYC players and therefore only need the basic docs submissions to confirm them.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/vernons-casino-withholding-money.48953/?t=48953
 
Closed self my accounts already..

I have already closed my accounts..wrote them that I wont play at their casino(s) (they have also a sister casino) until they processes my withdraw...

From the country I live there is no access to big UK casinos..that is why I choosed them...
and I actually search and google these two casinos..they have a very high points...and somehow "recommended"... did not search enough...
 
Right, the casino in question is accredited here but the rep hasn't been in for over a month and the OP has tried contacting him.

With that in mind, I would advise the OP to PAB. If he's waited reasonable time for a reply then he's got no choice, even though the casino hasn't actually broken a term.

Max could then establish whether there is any real concern about the player's ID or other genuine issue on the casino's behalf (they've paid him several times already!) or whether they're just being plain cussed.

I hate seeing unnecessary PABs and wasting of Max's time as that is why there are reps here, but if they are no-show....:confused:
 
Right, the casino in question is accredited here but the rep hasn't been in for over a month and the OP has tried contacting him.

With that in mind, I would advise the OP to PAB. If he's waited reasonable time for a reply then he's got no choice, even though the casino hasn't actually broken a term.

Max could then establish whether there is any real concern about the player's ID or other genuine issue on the casino's behalf (they've paid him several times already!) or whether they're just being plain cussed.

I hate seeing unnecessary PABs and wasting of Max's time as that is why there are reps here, but if they are no-show....:confused:

Thank you for the post! (even I dont know what OP and PAB is, I guess OP is me and PAB is a kind of complain??)
 
Do as they ask, do not reverse it and when you eventually get you money remember to play at large Playtechs funded by the bookies' firms like Paddy Power, Ladbrokes, BoyleSports etc.
December 2014 ;)
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...he-bombardment-of-pointless-promotions.65365/
Haven't played at Ladyboy's for years, and I'm glad reading this.

In addition Ladbrokes got the Casinomeister 2014 Fall From Grace award

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2014/

I assume adding Ladbrokes on that list was an accident and you meant to list bet365 or other some other reputable bookmaker that still has a solid online casino. :D


Anyways, my favorite Playtech casino is bet365, in addition to Playtech slots, they also have Microgaming, WMS, NetEnt, AshGaming, etc, in total something like 750-800 different slots and games, too many Playtech casinos are Playtech-only casinos.
 
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I wont give a name now...but your guess is not wrong...

If this is an accredited casino here then you should send the rep a PM (private message)
here is a link to the rep
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/35301/
Give them a few days to respond. Just because the rep has not logged in does not mean they are not around. They could be on vacation or not have any messages to respond to.
If they do not respond to you then you can file a PAB (pitch a bitch).
You can read all the information about the service here.
Be sure to read everything completely especially the part about stop posting.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

I would no expect to see any accredited casino asking you to send documents to the Philippines without REALLY good reason. And some random audit is not a REALLY good reason.
 
Bryan has asked the rep to step in. That should get the ball rolling.

If that doesn't produce the desired result the OP ("Original Poster") should feel free to proceed to the next step, submitting a Pitch-A-Bitch (PAB) . As ever, the PAB process begins by reading the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ.

FYI, the FAQ is mandatory reading for PABers. If you don't read it then you'll screw things up, waste time (or worse) and piss off the guy who's trying to help you = not smart. :D

Please note that a Terms violation (or whatever) is not a pre-requisite to having a legitimate case for a PAB. Please see section 1.2 of the FAQ which descibes the few reasons why we WOULD NOT accept a PAB, anything else is pretty much fair game.

And last but not least: you should always feel free to ask us if you have questions or concerns about a possible PAB, or one in progress for that matter.
 
December 2014 ;)
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...he-bombardment-of-pointless-promotions.65365/


In addition Ladbrokes got the Casinomeister 2014 Fall From Grace award

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2014/

I assume adding Ladbrokes on that list was an accident and you meant to list bet365 or other some other reputable bookmaker that still has a solid online casino. :D


Anyways, my favorite Playtech casino is bet365, in addition to Playtech slots, they also have Microgaming, WMS, NetEnt, AshGaming, etc, in total something like 750-800 different slots and games, too many Playtech casinos are Playtech-only casinos.

Ladbrokes got the fall from grace as they went from in my opinion the best microgaming casino to a rubbish playtech with bad promotions etc and the way they transferred was a shambles but you will find they are still amongst the most reputable casinos you can get. Their fall from grace was nothing to do with them being in any way disreputable just the way they went from being one of the best to just an average casino.

But in saying that if you were wanting to play at a playtech casino then Ladbrokes would still be one of the best choices. If you are fortunate to win then at least especially in UK you would know you would get your winnings fast and not get hit with any of this junk that it takes you years to get paid.

They also have a better choice of slots now including WMS, Netent etc and still have a decent sportsbook. Tho they made a really bad mistake in getting rid of MG and at times CS is not the best they are still amongst the most trustworthy casinos you will find on the Net.
 
As I wrote before, I am not complaning now, I have sent documents to the Philippines yesterday...Post says it will be there within 5-7 days...So I will wait until next thursday (and that will be 3 weeks from date when I clicked on the withdraw!).

Buut if a rep here can somehow process it faster, and give a logicial meaning to this sudden requirement it will be nice. Otherwise it is not my intention to complain about that until they get the docs... I am not that kind of guy...I was just curious if this is normal...

And the casinos are credited here! (even I am not the first one complaining about that!)
If the casino(s) is (are) really friendly then they could ask about this notarized ID while I have no withdraws, or can send my withdraw and then ask this documentation for furhter withdraws...and so on...I mean come on!

As Dunover wrote , there was kind of a threshold limit...and when it was over..they somehow find this...

That is it for now..

Regards,
Carsten
 
As I wrote before, I am not complaning now, I have sent documents to the Philippines yesterday...Post says it will be there within 5-7 days...So I will wait until next thursday (and that will be 3 weeks from date when I clicked on the withdraw!).

Buut if a rep here can somehow process it faster, and give a logicial meaning to this sudden requirement it will be nice. Otherwise it is not my intention to complain about that until they get the docs... I am not that kind of guy...I was just curious if this is normal...

And the casinos are credited here! (even I am not the first one complaining about that!)
If the casino(s) is (are) really friendly then they could ask about this notarized ID while I have no withdraws, or can send my withdraw and then ask this documentation for furhter withdraws...and so on...I mean come on!

As Dunover wrote , there was kind of a threshold limit...and when it was over..they somehow find this...

That is it for now..

Regards,
Carsten

What is so bad about this is that they don't give a stuff about your personal security, they ask YOU to post it well outside of the EU and to a country that is still regarded as "developing". It is THEY that should be doing all this legwork by providing a SECURE means for you to provide documents, which should be a postal address WITHIN the EU where EU data protection and privacy laws both apply and can be enforced. It then becomes THEIR responsibility to safeguard these documents when they pass them internally for processing in another country. By having the PLAYER post them direct, they are avoiding some of their legal responsibilities. For example, if YOU post them, but they are not received, they can deny responsibility as it wasn't they who sent them out of the EU. On the other hand, if you posted them to an EU address, and they were lost when THEY posted them out to the Philippines, it is they who are in breach of data protection laws.

The main risk is when they are in transit, rather than when they reach Paragon International Customer Care in Manila. It's a secure building in the business district. The longer the transit, and the more different handling bodies, the greater the risk. Risk of data interception is reduced by having such sensitive documents sent as short a distance as possible and in as secure a manner as possible. There must be plenty of security experts in Denmark capable of verifying your notarised documents, and if anything, they would be better at the task.
 
Notarized ID

Hi All and Carsten in particular,

I'm sorry for the delay in responding to this thread, I didn't see it earlier.

I have messaged Carsten and will be dealing directly with this member to solve this issue as quickly as possible.

To answer the others in this thread, I believe it's a fairly normal occurrence and something that is common in the industry. There's been no question of the player not receiving the funds, it's just being processed according to our guidelines. There are numerous reasons why these documents are required and why we perform certain checks on players at different intervals. There are certain regulations and protocols we have to adhere to. In this case I will get the exact answer from the CS team in due course.

I also want to add that Omni and Fly have a very strong reputation in the industry for the way we treat and look after our players. It's one of our biggest strengths and something we pride ourselves on. We are recommended for a reason - we view players as family and if they have a complaint we solve it. I do not believe this issue is any different and I will fight for the player to get it resolved.

I hope this answers some of your comments and will be happy to talk further with anyone on this subject.


Kind regards,

Adam
 
I would hardly say its quite a normal practice in the Industry. Some casinos ask for them but its mainly Playtech .

Once a player has been verified at a casino there should be no need to ever request notarised documents as you already know who the player is and have proof of his identity. To ask an already verified player to pay to get documents notarized then send them half way around the world to a country where mail is not safe is hardly normal or safe. These sort of documents can lead to all sorts of fraud if they fall into the wrong hands.

I can see the point if a player wins and for whatever reason he can not get verified or there is a good chance he has committed fraud to maybe ask for notarized documents other than that its ridiculous in this day and age and nothing more than a delaying tactic and inconvenience to the player.
 
I would hardly say its quite a normal practice in the Industry. Some casinos ask for them but its mainly Playtech .

Once a player has been verified at a casino there should be no need to ever request notarised documents as you already know who the player is and have proof of his identity. To ask an already verified player to pay to get documents notarized then send them half way around the world to a country where mail is not safe is hardly normal or safe. These sort of documents can lead to all sorts of fraud if they fall into the wrong hands.

I can see the point if a player wins and for whatever reason he can not get verified or there is a good chance he has committed fraud to maybe ask for notarized documents other than that its ridiculous in this day and age and nothing more than a delaying tactic and inconvenience to the player.

I completely agree with this.

If a casino ever asks me to spend my money, time and risk my security doing this they sure as hell will never see my business again.

I will also never, ever play at a Casino I have seen asking someone else for this kind of thing. Absolute farce.
 
I believe it's a fairly normal occurrence and something that is common in the industry.

No it is not normal and common. It is only normal and common with some Playtech casinos who like to provide hoops for players to jump through. In 15 years I have never ever been required to submit notarized documents to prove my identity when making a withdrawal. Like others in this thread have said, you won't see the likes of bet365 who use Playtech software provide this challenge when making a withdrawal.

I am currently updating my sites, with my oldest and most established site being updated first. This includes removing and adding many properties. This stunt pulled on Carsten means I am very, very close to removing all Focal Click properties from OCR and my other sites. Not only that, but in my book, this makes Omni and Fly worthy of consideration for OCR's S List.

Hopefully you can see the light and action Carsten's withdrawal promptly and have a chat with the senior management to remove this unnecessary and 'rogue' practice of insisting on notarized documents.
 
Hi all,

I have now sent an email to Adam where he asked my username(s)...I sent the email..I believe he can help...
I asked him to be careful about privacy...hopefully he will..

Regarding to the docs and so on...Honestly speaking , the docs casinos have (not only these two casinos but in general) is enough to steal your identity,name,life and so on...I mean if after six months some casinos get hacked or robbet ...then what ?? Or if the casino itself (there are thousnds of online casinos, they could be owned by any group fo people,hackers,bad guys? who knows?) misuses it ??...Yeah...may god bless us :-)

Now I do trust FLY and OMNI they are not that kind of guys...So I sent my docs..(I can see, it is out of EU now-the letter :-), I will in fact continue to play at their page if I get my last withdraw. No question about that!

That is for now!

Regards!
Carsten
 
And just forget to write...

I dont think it is normal to require Notarized ID, just because you wrote it in the terms, does not gives you the right to torture people...I mean if someone misuses any holes in the system then it is fine...
but that is not the case...or if it is big win really big win...then they may even require you to come and visit....it is then ok...but it is not the case ....

One of the sister says they dont need it , the other sister says they need it...because the one which needs it has my withdraw :-)...dont know what to say...

As I wrote before..I do trust these sisters (want to trust!)..So hopefully Adam will manage it..
 
Hi all,

I have now sent an email to Adam where he asked my username(s)...I sent the email..I believe he can help...
I asked him to be careful about privacy...hopefully he will..

Regarding to the docs and so on...Honestly speaking , the docs casinos have (not only these two casinos but in general) is enough to steal your identity,name,life and so on...I mean if after six months some casinos get hacked or robbet ...then what ?? Or if the casino itself (there are thousnds of online casinos, they could be owned by any group fo people,hackers,bad guys? who knows?) misuses it ??...Yeah...may god bless us :-)

Now I do trust FLY and OMNI they are not that kind of guys...So I sent my docs..(I can see, it is out of EU now-the letter :-), I will in fact continue to play at their page if I get my last withdraw. No question about that!

That is for now!

Regards!
Carsten

That's not the problem. Do you trust the various posties and couriers who's names and employers you will never know when the documents are in transit? If they were intercepted, you have no one to pin the blame on. If a casino has your documents and they allow them to fall into the wrong hands, then they are responsible, both morally and legally.

Notarised documents has been described as "rare" by a number of reps from a number of operators. What IS "common practice" is the usual procedure of the player sending JPEG images of their photo ID, utility bill or bank statement, and back & front of any card used. These are not posted to Manila, but emailed or securely uploaded to the casino. Even with notarised documents, the norm is STILL for the player to send them as JPEG files, as what really matters to the casino is contacting the notary who's seal is on the documents to verify that they are genuine notarised copies from his firm.

Now, when it comes to a casino operating in Europe with a licence from Curacao (which isn't too reputable in itself) which then considers it "common industry practice" to ask players to send notarised documents to the Philippines, it makes one wonder what is actually going on with the company structure and ownership. Whilst this is OMNI, the pairing of a licence from one of the "rubber stamp" jurisdictions and a head office in some far flung place well away from the jurisdiction of the part of the world where their target market lies is also the hallmark of the dodgy dealing, and sometimes rogue, casino. If one had cause to go after OMNI in a legal sense, where the hell are they?

This particular setup when it comes to Playtech is evidence of a white label casino, and as such, would not normally be considered for accreditation. These casinos are operated by Playtech themselves through their subsidiary Paragon International Customer Care, who just happen to live in the same Manila offices where some players are told to post their notarised documents. The "owners" are the ones that market their white label, and players have to post documents to Manila as there is no actual "head office" of the white label to handle this kind of thing.

When it comes to the big name Playtech casinos, it is far from "common practice" to ask for notarised documents, and on the rare occasions when they do, the player is asked to post them to a proper head office closer to home. It's either an office in their licencing jurisdiction, or one in an EU country (the support centre itself).

This seems to be the first time that the "post to the Philippines" request has been a matter of pure routine when an already verified player just seems to have reached a certain level of transactions. In the past, the request has been made of new players of whom the casino has suspicions, usually as a result of collective "unusual activity" related to a new player bonus offering.
 
That's not the problem. Do you trust the various posties and couriers who's names and employers you will never know when the documents are in transit? If they were intercepted, you have no one to pin the blame on. If a casino has your documents and they allow them to fall into the wrong hands, then they are responsible, both morally and legally.

Notarised documents has been described as "rare" by a number of reps from a number of operators. What IS "common practice" is the usual procedure of the player sending JPEG images of their photo ID, utility bill or bank statement, and back & front of any card used. These are not posted to Manila, but emailed or securely uploaded to the casino. Even with notarised documents, the norm is STILL for the player to send them as JPEG files, as what really matters to the casino is contacting the notary who's seal is on the documents to verify that they are genuine notarised copies from his firm.

Now, when it comes to a casino operating in Europe with a licence from Curacao (which isn't too reputable in itself) which then considers it "common industry practice" to ask players to send notarised documents to the Philippines, it makes one wonder what is actually going on with the company structure and ownership. Whilst this is OMNI, the pairing of a licence from one of the "rubber stamp" jurisdictions and a head office in some far flung place well away from the jurisdiction of the part of the world where their target market lies is also the hallmark of the dodgy dealing, and sometimes rogue, casino. If one had cause to go after OMNI in a legal sense, where the hell are they?

This particular setup when it comes to Playtech is evidence of a white label casino, and as such, would not normally be considered for accreditation. These casinos are operated by Playtech themselves through their subsidiary Paragon International Customer Care, who just happen to live in the same Manila offices where some players are told to post their notarised documents. The "owners" are the ones that market their white label, and players have to post documents to Manila as there is no actual "head office" of the white label to handle this kind of thing.

When it comes to the big name Playtech casinos, it is far from "common practice" to ask for notarised documents, and on the rare occasions when they do, the player is asked to post them to a proper head office closer to home. It's either an office in their licencing jurisdiction, or one in an EU country (the support centre itself).

This seems to be the first time that the "post to the Philippines" request has been a matter of pure routine when an already verified player just seems to have reached a certain level of transactions. In the past, the request has been made of new players of whom the casino has suspicions, usually as a result of collective "unusual activity" related to a new player bonus offering.

Thank you for the post weatherman..(dont know how to give thanks in the forum :-) so you get in this way)

You are right....just cant imagine what if I won one of the big jackpots...I was namely very very close :-)...
In my case the amount is not that big but I needed it...:-\..I mean I was expecting this withdraw on time....planned according to that....had to make new plans :-\

and it is correct where to apply if there is a legal issue? and why to ask these docs for an already verified customer...???

I choosed them..nice,simple software interface, good colors,good chat support, good promos and so on..as I wrote the first 5 withdraw from these sisters were non problematic...

So I will not just shoot them down for now...(with the hope that I will get my withdraw soon :-) ) (as mentioned before I will continue to play at their sites if I get my withdraw...this is the last problem I believe I may experience with them, so why not to continue)
 
Thank you for the post weatherman..(dont know how to give thanks in the forum :-) so you get in this way)

You are right....just cant imagine what if I won one of the big jackpots...I was namely very very close :-)...
In my case the amount is not that big but I needed it...:-\..I mean I was expecting this withdraw on time....planned according to that....had to make new plans :-\

and it is correct where to apply if there is a legal issue? and why to ask these docs for an already verified customer...???

I choosed them..nice,simple software interface, good colors,good chat support, good promos and so on..as I wrote the first 5 withdraw from these sisters were non problematic...

So I will not just shoot them down for now...(with the hope that I will get my withdraw soon :-) ) (as mentioned before I will continue to play at their sites if I get my withdraw...this is the last problem I believe I may experience with them, so why not to continue)

Well hopefully it gets sorted and you get paid quick.

Make one more post and you will be able to thank posts. After your 10th post a thanks button appears at bottom of every post and if you want to thank the post you just click it.
 
I agree with Webczas. I believe ANY casino that invites players (always after a decent win!) to send notarized ID outside of the player's country or at very least the EU should not be promoted and not be accredited.

It is player-unfriendly and nothing other than an unethical delaying tactic.

I challenge any casino rep to justify taking thousands in deposits and paying thousands out to a player over months with the standard KYC checks to show me a rule whereby any Licensing Authority demands notarized ID thereafter.

Because this is like saying "We're satisfied with your ID up to a point having followed due diligence, but this big win you've just had has suddenly cast doubt upon your identity."

There should be NO grey areas - either they're happy to do business with you, whether you win 50 quid or 50k, or they ain't!
 
Well hopefully it gets sorted and you get paid quick.

Make one more post and you will be able to thank posts. After your 10th post a thanks button appears at bottom of every post and if you want to thank the post you just click it.

Thank you too Paul...(will be really nice if I get paid quick)
 
I agree with Webczas. I believe ANY casino that invites players (always after a decent win!) to send notarized ID outside of the player's country or at very least the EU should not be promoted and not be accredited.

It is player-unfriendly and nothing other than an unethical delaying tactic.

I challenge any casino rep to justify taking thousands in deposits and paying thousands out to a player over months with the standard KYC checks to show me a rule whereby any Licensing Authority demands notarized ID thereafter.

Because this is like saying "We're satisfied with your ID up to a point having followed due diligence, but this big win you've just had has suddenly cast doubt upon your identity."

There should be NO grey areas - either they're happy to do business with you, whether you win 50 quid or 50k, or they ain't!

Totally agree with you, but I want to be optimistic...maybe I am too naive :-\...
I mean why to cheat or lie ?? this is not proffessional...as I wrote before I want to trust them...i want to trust people in general...money comes and goes...but the personality , the princips, the character they dont comes and goes that easy...(i will never lie to someone for my chief or company,
today he asks you to lie or cheat, tomorrow he wil ask you to steal, the day after tomorrow he will ask you...and this kind of things can effect your private life as well, I mean if you keep lying/cheating people for your work , I cant imagine you stop it in your private life?? )

dont know if you follow the news...there was an italien business man (very rich) died in quite early age for couple of weeks ago...money could not save him ?? and I am sure he cant use his empire in the grave :-) and so what ? all the money he made ?? (I am not saying he cheated or lied, just want to illustrate that money is not everything!)

What I finally trying to say is both to these sisters (and Adam) and to everybody never cheat, never lie for money!

Still I hope I will get my withdraw soon :-) :-) :-)
 
Notarized Documents

Hi All,

Firstly I've dealt with this issue directly with the member concerned offline and it's being sorted. I explained the exact reasons for why documents were required and that it will be resolved.

In terms of the issue at large my word choice earlier may have been misleading. It is not common, however it is completely normal and to be expected. All the members who've written in this thread are, I'm sure, very honest and good casino players who haven't had issues in the past with other casinos because they're activity or actions haven't been suspicious. In the same way, Omni and Fly are the good guys, we are very honest and open with our players and aim to put their interests first at all times. However due to our varied bonuses and offers, we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct.

In the last month alone we've had examples where 3 players from 3 different countries all provided ID (not notarized) and it turned out that all 3 seperate IDs had the exact same picture but a totally different name, country and address. In this day and age finding a fake ID is extremely easy and thus the only way to make totally sure the player is who they say they are is by requesting NIDs.

As I stated above - this isn't common practice for us. We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent. So no, it isn't common and if there were only real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum, it's not a tactic we would employ. However we have to protect ourselves as well and therefore it is a normal and understandable part of our protocol.

Hope you're all having a good weekend.

Kind regards,

Adam
 
Hi All,

Firstly I've dealt with this issue directly with the member concerned offline and it's being sorted. I explained the exact reasons for why documents were required and

In terms of the issue at large my word choice earlier may have been misleading. It is not common, however it is completely normal and to be expected. All the members who've written in this thread are, I'm sure, very honest and good casino players who haven't had issues in the past with other casinos because they're activity or actions haven't been suspicious. In the same way, Omni and Fly are the good guys, we are very honest and open with our players and aim to put their interests first at all times. However due to our varied bonuses and offers, we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct.

In the last month alone we've had examples where 3 players from 3 different countries all provided ID (not notarized) and it turned out that all 3 seperate IDs had the exact same picture but a totally different name, country and address. In this day and age finding a fake ID is extremely easy and thus the only way to make totally sure the player is who they say they are is by requesting NIDs.

As I stated above - this isn't common practice for us. We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent. So no, it isn't common and if there were only real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum, it's not a tactic we would employ. However we have to protect ourselves as well and therefore it is a normal and understandable part of our protocol.

Hope you're all having a good weekend.

Kind regards,

Adam

So that's one in one million players! Have you got that many?

And the second part of that sentence is frankly an outrageous assumption! You assume that NOT sending the documents to a shack in the third world is an automatic sign of the player's guilt?

Have you considered that the player might be genuine, and simply faced with the delay and expense and lack of trust that this measure entails just gives up and either reverses and blows the money or just gives up?
 
Hi,

As I just wrote to you in private, this isn't an exact figure - I'm trying to make the point that it's an extremely rare occurrence.

You're right, it's an outrageous assumption which may or may not be true but we only ask for it in cases where either Playtech's fraud team has asked us to or we see some suspicious activity going on.

I do understand that you may very well be right in some instances but as stated above, it's the only sure measure we have.

Kind regards,

Adam


So that's one in one million players! Have you got that many?

And the second part of that sentence is frankly an outrageous assumption! You assume that NOT sending the documents to a shack in the third world is an automatic sign of the player's guilt?

Have you considered that the player might be genuine, and simply faced with the delay and expense and lack of trust that this measure entails just gives up and either reverses and blows the money or just gives up?
 
Hi All,

Firstly I've dealt with this issue directly with the member concerned offline and it's being sorted. I explained the exact reasons for why documents were required and that it will be resolved.

In terms of the issue at large my word choice earlier may have been misleading. It is not common, however it is completely normal and to be expected. All the members who've written in this thread are, I'm sure, very honest and good casino players who haven't had issues in the past with other casinos because they're activity or actions haven't been suspicious. In the same way, Omni and Fly are the good guys, we are very honest and open with our players and aim to put their interests first at all times. However due to our varied bonuses and offers, we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct.

In the last month alone we've had examples where 3 players from 3 different countries all provided ID (not notarized) and it turned out that all 3 seperate IDs had the exact same picture but a totally different name, country and address. In this day and age finding a fake ID is extremely easy and thus the only way to make totally sure the player is who they say they are is by requesting NIDs.

As I stated above - this isn't common practice for us. We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent. So no, it isn't common and if there were only real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum, it's not a tactic we would employ. However we have to protect ourselves as well and therefore it is a normal and understandable part of our protocol.

Hope you're all having a good weekend.

Kind regards,

Adam

Okay Im confused as you say " we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct" which makes it look like you regularly ask for notarized id.

Then you say "We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent" which means you request NID from only one in a million players which means basically you never ask for it even who you state all these people are trying to defraud you.

Sorry but to me it looks like the first bit is right that you ask for the ID often as second bit makes no sense at all as you are saying in one hand you rarely ask for it yet you say very few you ask send in documents knowing they had done something wrong. That it self shows you ask for them a lot.
 
Hi All,

Firstly I've dealt with this issue directly with the member concerned offline and it's being sorted. I explained the exact reasons for why documents were required and that it will be resolved.

In terms of the issue at large my word choice earlier may have been misleading. It is not common, however it is completely normal and to be expected. All the members who've written in this thread are, I'm sure, very honest and good casino players who haven't had issues in the past with other casinos because they're activity or actions haven't been suspicious. In the same way, Omni and Fly are the good guys, we are very honest and open with our players and aim to put their interests first at all times. However due to our varied bonuses and offers, we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct.

In the last month alone we've had examples where 3 players from 3 different countries all provided ID (not notarized) and it turned out that all 3 seperate IDs had the exact same picture but a totally different name, country and address. In this day and age finding a fake ID is extremely easy and thus the only way to make totally sure the player is who they say they are is by requesting NIDs.

As I stated above - this isn't common practice for us. We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent. So no, it isn't common and if there were only real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum, it's not a tactic we would employ. However we have to protect ourselves as well and therefore it is a normal and understandable part of our protocol.

Hope you're all having a good weekend.

Kind regards,

Adam


Hi Adam and others,
Thank you for the post...

(in the begining I misunderstood a litte bit ..got a picture that I am sending Notarized ID,because I have done something fraudulent but you saved it by "real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum" ) Thank you for that as well...

I was expecting something like: this guy is "totally honest" and there has been a mistake from our side, he will get the withdraw within one hour :-)
and as an apologize we have given ham some non-deposit bonusses at the sisters..." but it can apparently only happen in the perfect world I have in my thoughts...:-)

I want to give a status for my case if any of you want to know..Adam has written to me that a withdraw during weekend is not possible latest thursday I will get my withdraw.

That is it for now :-)
Carsten
 
Hi,

As I just wrote to you in private, this isn't an exact figure - I'm trying to make the point that it's an extremely rare occurrence.

You're right, it's an outrageous assumption which may or may not be true but we only ask for it in cases where either Playtech's fraud team has asked us to or we see some suspicious activity going on.

I do understand that you may very well be right in some instances but as stated above, it's the only sure measure we have.

Kind regards,

Adam

Ah, that's more like it!

PLAYTECH being (as usual!) the operative word.
The very same Playtech that allows casinos to withhold jackpots and impose ridiculous monthly limits on the poor sods that win them. That has branded slots with RTP's as low as 92%. I see now. The same Playtech that suddenly suspects 'fraud' when a player wins big.

Well, if they weren't so tight and invested in proper purchased credit reference information and database checks which other brands do (hence the extreme rarity of NID checks in their cases) then firstly, they wouldn't need a third-world address on the cheap and secondly they wouldn't be a target for many fraudsters.

Every time I hear 'Playtech' mentioned I trust them and their ethics less and less.

P.S. Did Playtech's 'Fraud Team' ever discover where the Joyland Jackpot Winner's $1.5 million went? Perhaps they can investigate that.
 
Hi Adam and others,
Thank you for the post...

(in the begining I misunderstood a litte bit ..got a picture that I am sending Notarized ID,because I have done something fraudulent but you saved it by "real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum" ) Thank you for that as well...

I was expecting something like: this guy is "totally honest" and there has been a mistake from our side, he will get the withdraw within one hour :-)
and as an apologize we have given ham some non-deposit bonusses at the sisters..." but it can apparently only happen in the perfect world I have in my thoughts...:-)

I want to give a status for my case if any of you want to know..Adam has written to me that a withdraw during weekend is not possible latest thursday I will get my withdraw.

That is it for now :-)
Carsten

I would actually take it from the reply that they are suspicious of your account and want proof its really you. If indeed they only ask for the ID if playtechs fraud asks them to then I would take it that they must have asked them to get your ID notarized which means they have concerns.
 
I would actually take it from the reply that they are suspicious of your account and want proof its really you. If indeed they only ask for the ID if playtechs fraud asks them to then I would take it that they must have asked them to get your ID notarized which means they have concerns.

Hi Paul,

I got confused :-)...Can you kindly use other words and write again ? :-)

Adam wrote me that they thought I was a part of a fraud group in the beginning...but now they they are 99.99 % sure that I am not :-)
That is what he has written to me...but you mean they thought I was member of a fraud group and someone else still think that ??
Oo my God :-) ( I have only won 3-4 k in one month :-) hahaha...cant stop laughing...(Omni does not want this doc only Fly want it...just want to remind I played at both sides daily)
 
Hi Paul,

Referring to your earlier message I just want to make it clear - the two statements aren't related.

In my first point I just outlined the reasons for why we ask for NIDs - we do have a lot of players trying to defraud us. There are many other checks in place to make sure they don't get anywhere near this far but this is one of our final ways to prevent them from succeeding.

In the 2nd statement I simply pointed out the frequency of the NID request and as mentioned the numbers were just to outline the rarity, they aren't the actual numbers. It doesn't often come to this - and when it does, we often have a case. There is nothing contradictory here.

Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

Kind regards,

Adam
 
Hi Paul,

I got confused :-)...Can you kindly use other words and write again ? :-)

Adam wrote me that they thought I was a part of a fraud group in the beginning...but now they they are 99.99 % sure that I am not :-)
That is what he has written to me...but you mean they thought I was member of a fraud group and someone else still think that ??
Oo my God :-) ( I have only won 3-4 k in one month :-) hahaha...cant stop laughing...(Omni does not want this doc only Fly want it...just want to remind I played at both sides daily)

My words only meant that you were not concerned as you thought it was normal procedure for them to ask for ID. I never said you were part of fraud or anything merely stated that indeed if its only Playtech that asks for the notarized ID and not the casino as they need to investigate then something has raised suspicion as it was the Rep that stated they only get asked for if somethings not right and they want to check you really are who your original ID said you were.

If you have now been told its okay then you shouldn't worry tho personally I would wait till they received documents. I would probably also ask if they are that sure you are who you say you are then why the hell did they need the Notarized ID.
 
Sorry Adam but you quoted this
"In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct"

Now maybe I am not the smartest there is but if you state the only way you can be sure of someone is by NID then it implies you must ask for it a lot or else how else can you be sure any of your customers is who they say they are.
 
My words only meant that you were not concerned as you thought it was normal procedure for them to ask for ID. I never said you were part of fraud or anything merely stated that indeed if its only Playtech that asks for the notarized ID and not the casino as they need to investigate then something has raised suspicion as it was the Rep that stated they only get asked for if somethings not right and they want to check you really are who your original ID said you were.

If you have now been told its okay then you shouldn't worry tho personally I would wait till they received documents. I would probably also ask if they are that sure you are who you say you are then why the hell did they need the Notarized ID.



I think I get it now :-)...

I was almost asking about that but he is really polite and kind in his emails, and I know that it was not his fault...I mean I would not blame the waiter if the cook has f..d up the food....If it was Adam to decide, then I am sure I already get my withdraw...That is what I have felt from his emails..


On the other hand it is not Adam who made the rules...Some one higher in the firm found this whole in their terms, and they misuse it... (if the amount was big then I could understand that...for 1-2k I dont understand...)

Dunover's first post actually tells everything....everything else is...The term is there and Adam will protect it. it is his job..logical enough...


I will wait until thursday....if nothing happens or nothing changes, then I think these sister casino must be removed from the accredited lists...just to warn other people not to experience the same...

That is it for now :-)
Carsten
 
Hi Paul,

Referring to your earlier message I just want to make it clear - the two statements aren't related.

In my first point I just outlined the reasons for why we ask for NIDs - we do have a lot of players trying to defraud us. There are many other checks in place to make sure they don't get anywhere near this far but this is one of our final ways to prevent them from succeeding.

In the 2nd statement I simply pointed out the frequency of the NID request and as mentioned the numbers were just to outline the rarity, they aren't the actual numbers. It doesn't often come to this - and when it does, we often have a case. There is nothing contradictory here.

Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

Kind regards,

Adam

So do all the other operators, yet they don't ask their players to post documents half way around the world.

As for finding three different sets of documents from three players in different countries having the same photo, you don't need notarised documents sent to the Philippines to spot that. Most other casinos spot that pretty quickly from the "normal" JPEGS that players have sent in during KYC.

It's also very odd that a player that has been with the group for a while, has been verified, and has made a number of deposits and withdrawals, suddenly gets lumped in with some "fraud ring". Almost all the frauds relate to the loss leading new player offers, particularly no deposit free chips (for obvious reasons). Such players do not carry on depositing and playing the lower value "loyalty bonuses", they cobble together another set of fake details and have another no deposit free chip or 200% introductory bonus. They know that formal KYC only takes place when they withdraw, so they will not be faced with cobbling together a full set of fake documents for every fraudulent account they create.

The message that is being sent out is that this trust is purely one way. Players are expected to trust a casino that has proven it's worth, yet a player will NEVER be trusted by the casino, no matter how much they have proven their worth through staying loyal for months, even years.

By making it more "normal" to have players post their documents out to Manila, you are taking the risk that this procedure will one day go horribly wrong, a player will post their documents, they will never arrive, and then they will have their identity stolen and misused. Whilst a link may not be proven, the ensuing investigation will involve the player having to tell the police of anything they can think of that may have lead to their sensitive documents and data ending up in the wrong hands, and they will say "well, there was this one time back in xxxx when Omni casino ordered me to send a notarised copy of my passport to the Philippines, and then they claimed it never arrived".

When it comes to EEA rules and regulations:-

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The request that a player from within the EU posts their documents to the Philippines is a potential violation of the Data Protection Rules.

Personal data shall not be transferred to a country or territory outside the EEA unless that country or territory ensures an adequate level of protection for the rights and freedoms of data subjects in relation to the processing of personal data.

There is a list of those non EEA countries that have been approved for their adequacy of data protection:-

The Commission has so far recognized Andorra, Argentina, Canada (commercial organisations), Faeroe Islands, Guernsey, Israel, Isle of Man, Jersey, New Zealand, Switzerland, Uruguay and the US Department of Commerce's Safe Harbour Privacy Principles as providing adequate protection.


I don't see the Philippines on that list, and until it makes the grade and gets EEA approval, no company should be sending their customers' personal data there for processing and storage.

It would seem that Playtech casinos are NOT looking after the interests of their customers, but are risking their customers' data in the pursuit of the lowest costs of operating their business.

It also seems rather odd given that Playtech is listed on the LONDON stock market, yet is sending it's most sensitive customer data out for storage and processing in the Philippines, rather than an EEA or commission approved non-EEA country. Why not store and process this sensitive player data in Britain, where the company is based?

I would consider a notarised hard copy of a document a far more serious threat than a mere JPEG image of one, as it is an original, not a copy, and therefore of more use to a fraudster if they were able to get hold of it.


Whilst it is very hard to prove where the links are, it does seem that the spammers have been somehow able to get hold of the kind of player data that should ONLY be held and processed in casinos' most secure data handling facilities. There is an obvious causal link between using an email address to sign up at casinos and the increase in volume of online casino related spam received by that address as compared to the background level of online casino related spam received to a "control" email address that is never used for any gambling related activity.

Data leakage is more likely from a data centre based in an EEA non approved country than an approved one, even though approval is no guarantee of zero risk.

Players already face a losing battle against spam related to their data managing to leak from casinos they have signed up with at some point, so naturally we don't trust the industry to take the best care they can to prevent this from happening.
 
After all I've been reading here about Playtech casinos regarding confiscation of funds, notarized IDs, etc. I'd stay cleer of all Playtech casinos, including the ones on the accredited list. Better safe than sorry.

I agree with you . Luckily I hate playtech but if I do play it occasionally it would only ever be at all the main british bookies. Knowing that if I won I would get it in one go and theres no danger they would say hey you have been a customer for 10 years, but you just won a lot so we are not paying until you send notarized id to the other side of the world.
 
I agree with you . Luckily I hate playtech but if I do play it occasionally it would only ever be at all the main british bookies. Knowing that if I won I would get it in one go and theres no danger they would say hey you have been a customer for 10 years, but you just won a lot so we are not paying until you send notarized id to the other side of the world.

I want to know more about it, is it only playtech that has that BS rule or are there some others that have it as well like Rival and RTG?

I also somehow doubt that big operators like bet365 would do anything like that. Hopefully playtech will do some shit so that all the big operators ditch them.
 
Sorry Adam but you quoted this
"In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct"

Now maybe I am not the smartest there is but if you state the only way you can be sure of someone is by NID then it implies you must ask for it a lot or else how else can you be sure any of your customers is who they say they are.


Hi Paul,

This is the only way we can be sure the information is correct. However 99% of players don't fall into this category and we are able to verify them in a normal way without having to procure these docs.

Hope that helps.

All the best,

Adam
 
Hi All,

Just an update to my case, today in the morning, I get an email from Fly, saying that they have processed my withdraw I will have it within 4-7 days...
(Normally when I get this email I used to see the amount on my card as available immediately but not today..)

So to show my good intention I re-opened my accounts at the sisters ...but there is not much cash to play...:-)...have to wait with patience :-)

regards,
Carsten
 
I wont give a name now...but your guess is not wrong...

Hej Carsten.

I have had many withdraws from Fly and Omni with now problems at all...Omni I cashed out over $ 3000 and they never have asked for snail mail to Philipines. Once they do I will close my account for god.

I dont even know how to get these notarized documents, do you?
 

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