Non-Bonus Complaint Notarized ID ...Is it normal after 6 withdraws?

I agree with Webczas. I believe ANY casino that invites players (always after a decent win!) to send notarized ID outside of the player's country or at very least the EU should not be promoted and not be accredited.

It is player-unfriendly and nothing other than an unethical delaying tactic.

I challenge any casino rep to justify taking thousands in deposits and paying thousands out to a player over months with the standard KYC checks to show me a rule whereby any Licensing Authority demands notarized ID thereafter.

Because this is like saying "We're satisfied with your ID up to a point having followed due diligence, but this big win you've just had has suddenly cast doubt upon your identity."

There should be NO grey areas - either they're happy to do business with you, whether you win 50 quid or 50k, or they ain't!
 
Well hopefully it gets sorted and you get paid quick.

Make one more post and you will be able to thank posts. After your 10th post a thanks button appears at bottom of every post and if you want to thank the post you just click it.

Thank you too Paul...(will be really nice if I get paid quick)
 
I agree with Webczas. I believe ANY casino that invites players (always after a decent win!) to send notarized ID outside of the player's country or at very least the EU should not be promoted and not be accredited.

It is player-unfriendly and nothing other than an unethical delaying tactic.

I challenge any casino rep to justify taking thousands in deposits and paying thousands out to a player over months with the standard KYC checks to show me a rule whereby any Licensing Authority demands notarized ID thereafter.

Because this is like saying "We're satisfied with your ID up to a point having followed due diligence, but this big win you've just had has suddenly cast doubt upon your identity."

There should be NO grey areas - either they're happy to do business with you, whether you win 50 quid or 50k, or they ain't!

Totally agree with you, but I want to be optimistic...maybe I am too naive :-\...
I mean why to cheat or lie ?? this is not proffessional...as I wrote before I want to trust them...i want to trust people in general...money comes and goes...but the personality , the princips, the character they dont comes and goes that easy...(i will never lie to someone for my chief or company,
today he asks you to lie or cheat, tomorrow he wil ask you to steal, the day after tomorrow he will ask you...and this kind of things can effect your private life as well, I mean if you keep lying/cheating people for your work , I cant imagine you stop it in your private life?? )

dont know if you follow the news...there was an italien business man (very rich) died in quite early age for couple of weeks ago...money could not save him ?? and I am sure he cant use his empire in the grave :) and so what ? all the money he made ?? (I am not saying he cheated or lied, just want to illustrate that money is not everything!)

What I finally trying to say is both to these sisters (and Adam) and to everybody never cheat, never lie for money!

Still I hope I will get my withdraw soon :) :) :)
 
Notarized Documents

Hi All,

Firstly I've dealt with this issue directly with the member concerned offline and it's being sorted. I explained the exact reasons for why documents were required and that it will be resolved.

In terms of the issue at large my word choice earlier may have been misleading. It is not common, however it is completely normal and to be expected. All the members who've written in this thread are, I'm sure, very honest and good casino players who haven't had issues in the past with other casinos because they're activity or actions haven't been suspicious. In the same way, Omni and Fly are the good guys, we are very honest and open with our players and aim to put their interests first at all times. However due to our varied bonuses and offers, we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct.

In the last month alone we've had examples where 3 players from 3 different countries all provided ID (not notarized) and it turned out that all 3 seperate IDs had the exact same picture but a totally different name, country and address. In this day and age finding a fake ID is extremely easy and thus the only way to make totally sure the player is who they say they are is by requesting NIDs.

As I stated above - this isn't common practice for us. We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent. So no, it isn't common and if there were only real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum, it's not a tactic we would employ. However we have to protect ourselves as well and therefore it is a normal and understandable part of our protocol.

Hope you're all having a good weekend.

Kind regards,

Adam
 
Hi All,

Firstly I've dealt with this issue directly with the member concerned offline and it's being sorted. I explained the exact reasons for why documents were required and

In terms of the issue at large my word choice earlier may have been misleading. It is not common, however it is completely normal and to be expected. All the members who've written in this thread are, I'm sure, very honest and good casino players who haven't had issues in the past with other casinos because they're activity or actions haven't been suspicious. In the same way, Omni and Fly are the good guys, we are very honest and open with our players and aim to put their interests first at all times. However due to our varied bonuses and offers, we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct.

In the last month alone we've had examples where 3 players from 3 different countries all provided ID (not notarized) and it turned out that all 3 seperate IDs had the exact same picture but a totally different name, country and address. In this day and age finding a fake ID is extremely easy and thus the only way to make totally sure the player is who they say they are is by requesting NIDs.

As I stated above - this isn't common practice for us. We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent. So no, it isn't common and if there were only real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum, it's not a tactic we would employ. However we have to protect ourselves as well and therefore it is a normal and understandable part of our protocol.

Hope you're all having a good weekend.

Kind regards,

Adam

So that's one in one million players! Have you got that many?

And the second part of that sentence is frankly an outrageous assumption! You assume that NOT sending the documents to a shack in the third world is an automatic sign of the player's guilt?

Have you considered that the player might be genuine, and simply faced with the delay and expense and lack of trust that this measure entails just gives up and either reverses and blows the money or just gives up?
 
Hi,

As I just wrote to you in private, this isn't an exact figure - I'm trying to make the point that it's an extremely rare occurrence.

You're right, it's an outrageous assumption which may or may not be true but we only ask for it in cases where either Playtech's fraud team has asked us to or we see some suspicious activity going on.

I do understand that you may very well be right in some instances but as stated above, it's the only sure measure we have.

Kind regards,

Adam


So that's one in one million players! Have you got that many?

And the second part of that sentence is frankly an outrageous assumption! You assume that NOT sending the documents to a shack in the third world is an automatic sign of the player's guilt?

Have you considered that the player might be genuine, and simply faced with the delay and expense and lack of trust that this measure entails just gives up and either reverses and blows the money or just gives up?
 
Hi All,

Firstly I've dealt with this issue directly with the member concerned offline and it's being sorted. I explained the exact reasons for why documents were required and that it will be resolved.

In terms of the issue at large my word choice earlier may have been misleading. It is not common, however it is completely normal and to be expected. All the members who've written in this thread are, I'm sure, very honest and good casino players who haven't had issues in the past with other casinos because they're activity or actions haven't been suspicious. In the same way, Omni and Fly are the good guys, we are very honest and open with our players and aim to put their interests first at all times. However due to our varied bonuses and offers, we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct.

In the last month alone we've had examples where 3 players from 3 different countries all provided ID (not notarized) and it turned out that all 3 seperate IDs had the exact same picture but a totally different name, country and address. In this day and age finding a fake ID is extremely easy and thus the only way to make totally sure the player is who they say they are is by requesting NIDs.

As I stated above - this isn't common practice for us. We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent. So no, it isn't common and if there were only real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum, it's not a tactic we would employ. However we have to protect ourselves as well and therefore it is a normal and understandable part of our protocol.

Hope you're all having a good weekend.

Kind regards,

Adam

Okay Im confused as you say " we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct" which makes it look like you regularly ask for notarized id.

Then you say "We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent" which means you request NID from only one in a million players which means basically you never ask for it even who you state all these people are trying to defraud you.

Sorry but to me it looks like the first bit is right that you ask for the ID often as second bit makes no sense at all as you are saying in one hand you rarely ask for it yet you say very few you ask send in documents knowing they had done something wrong. That it self shows you ask for them a lot.
 
Hi All,

Firstly I've dealt with this issue directly with the member concerned offline and it's being sorted. I explained the exact reasons for why documents were required and that it will be resolved.

In terms of the issue at large my word choice earlier may have been misleading. It is not common, however it is completely normal and to be expected. All the members who've written in this thread are, I'm sure, very honest and good casino players who haven't had issues in the past with other casinos because they're activity or actions haven't been suspicious. In the same way, Omni and Fly are the good guys, we are very honest and open with our players and aim to put their interests first at all times. However due to our varied bonuses and offers, we have have hundreds of players a week trying to defraud us. In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct.

In the last month alone we've had examples where 3 players from 3 different countries all provided ID (not notarized) and it turned out that all 3 seperate IDs had the exact same picture but a totally different name, country and address. In this day and age finding a fake ID is extremely easy and thus the only way to make totally sure the player is who they say they are is by requesting NIDs.

As I stated above - this isn't common practice for us. We request NIDs from 0.0001% of our players and very few that are asked to send in docs do so because they know they have done something fraudulent. So no, it isn't common and if there were only real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum, it's not a tactic we would employ. However we have to protect ourselves as well and therefore it is a normal and understandable part of our protocol.

Hope you're all having a good weekend.

Kind regards,

Adam


Hi Adam and others,
Thank you for the post...

(in the begining I misunderstood a litte bit ..got a picture that I am sending Notarized ID,because I have done something fraudulent but you saved it by "real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum" ) Thank you for that as well...

I was expecting something like: this guy is "totally honest" and there has been a mistake from our side, he will get the withdraw within one hour :)
and as an apologize we have given ham some non-deposit bonusses at the sisters..." but it can apparently only happen in the perfect world I have in my thoughts...:)

I want to give a status for my case if any of you want to know..Adam has written to me that a withdraw during weekend is not possible latest thursday I will get my withdraw.

That is it for now :)
Carsten
 
Hi,

As I just wrote to you in private, this isn't an exact figure - I'm trying to make the point that it's an extremely rare occurrence.

You're right, it's an outrageous assumption which may or may not be true but we only ask for it in cases where either Playtech's fraud team has asked us to or we see some suspicious activity going on.

I do understand that you may very well be right in some instances but as stated above, it's the only sure measure we have.

Kind regards,

Adam

Ah, that's more like it!

PLAYTECH being (as usual!) the operative word.
The very same Playtech that allows casinos to withhold jackpots and impose ridiculous monthly limits on the poor sods that win them. That has branded slots with RTP's as low as 92%. I see now. The same Playtech that suddenly suspects 'fraud' when a player wins big.

Well, if they weren't so tight and invested in proper purchased credit reference information and database checks which other brands do (hence the extreme rarity of NID checks in their cases) then firstly, they wouldn't need a third-world address on the cheap and secondly they wouldn't be a target for many fraudsters.

Every time I hear 'Playtech' mentioned I trust them and their ethics less and less.

P.S. Did Playtech's 'Fraud Team' ever discover where the Joyland Jackpot Winner's $1.5 million went? Perhaps they can investigate that.
 
Hi Adam and others,
Thank you for the post...

(in the begining I misunderstood a litte bit ..got a picture that I am sending Notarized ID,because I have done something fraudulent but you saved it by "real honest casino players out there, like the members on this forum" ) Thank you for that as well...

I was expecting something like: this guy is "totally honest" and there has been a mistake from our side, he will get the withdraw within one hour :)
and as an apologize we have given ham some non-deposit bonusses at the sisters..." but it can apparently only happen in the perfect world I have in my thoughts...:)

I want to give a status for my case if any of you want to know..Adam has written to me that a withdraw during weekend is not possible latest thursday I will get my withdraw.

That is it for now :)
Carsten

I would actually take it from the reply that they are suspicious of your account and want proof its really you. If indeed they only ask for the ID if playtechs fraud asks them to then I would take it that they must have asked them to get your ID notarized which means they have concerns.
 
I would actually take it from the reply that they are suspicious of your account and want proof its really you. If indeed they only ask for the ID if playtechs fraud asks them to then I would take it that they must have asked them to get your ID notarized which means they have concerns.

Hi Paul,

I got confused :)...Can you kindly use other words and write again ? :)

Adam wrote me that they thought I was a part of a fraud group in the beginning...but now they they are 99.99 % sure that I am not :)
That is what he has written to me...but you mean they thought I was member of a fraud group and someone else still think that ??
Oo my God :) ( I have only won 3-4 k in one month :) hahaha...cant stop laughing...(Omni does not want this doc only Fly want it...just want to remind I played at both sides daily)
 
Hi Paul,

Referring to your earlier message I just want to make it clear - the two statements aren't related.

In my first point I just outlined the reasons for why we ask for NIDs - we do have a lot of players trying to defraud us. There are many other checks in place to make sure they don't get anywhere near this far but this is one of our final ways to prevent them from succeeding.

In the 2nd statement I simply pointed out the frequency of the NID request and as mentioned the numbers were just to outline the rarity, they aren't the actual numbers. It doesn't often come to this - and when it does, we often have a case. There is nothing contradictory here.

Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

Kind regards,

Adam
 
Hi Paul,

I got confused :)...Can you kindly use other words and write again ? :)

Adam wrote me that they thought I was a part of a fraud group in the beginning...but now they they are 99.99 % sure that I am not :)
That is what he has written to me...but you mean they thought I was member of a fraud group and someone else still think that ??
Oo my God :) ( I have only won 3-4 k in one month :) hahaha...cant stop laughing...(Omni does not want this doc only Fly want it...just want to remind I played at both sides daily)

My words only meant that you were not concerned as you thought it was normal procedure for them to ask for ID. I never said you were part of fraud or anything merely stated that indeed if its only Playtech that asks for the notarized ID and not the casino as they need to investigate then something has raised suspicion as it was the Rep that stated they only get asked for if somethings not right and they want to check you really are who your original ID said you were.

If you have now been told its okay then you shouldn't worry tho personally I would wait till they received documents. I would probably also ask if they are that sure you are who you say you are then why the hell did they need the Notarized ID.
 
Sorry Adam but you quoted this
"In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct"

Now maybe I am not the smartest there is but if you state the only way you can be sure of someone is by NID then it implies you must ask for it a lot or else how else can you be sure any of your customers is who they say they are.
 
My words only meant that you were not concerned as you thought it was normal procedure for them to ask for ID. I never said you were part of fraud or anything merely stated that indeed if its only Playtech that asks for the notarized ID and not the casino as they need to investigate then something has raised suspicion as it was the Rep that stated they only get asked for if somethings not right and they want to check you really are who your original ID said you were.

If you have now been told its okay then you shouldn't worry tho personally I would wait till they received documents. I would probably also ask if they are that sure you are who you say you are then why the hell did they need the Notarized ID.



I think I get it now :)...

I was almost asking about that but he is really polite and kind in his emails, and I know that it was not his fault...I mean I would not blame the waiter if the cook has f..d up the food....If it was Adam to decide, then I am sure I already get my withdraw...That is what I have felt from his emails..


On the other hand it is not Adam who made the rules...Some one higher in the firm found this whole in their terms, and they misuse it... (if the amount was big then I could understand that...for 1-2k I dont understand...)

Dunover's first post actually tells everything....everything else is...The term is there and Adam will protect it. it is his job..logical enough...


I will wait until thursday....if nothing happens or nothing changes, then I think these sister casino must be removed from the accredited lists...just to warn other people not to experience the same...

That is it for now :)
Carsten
 
Hi Paul,

Referring to your earlier message I just want to make it clear - the two statements aren't related.

In my first point I just outlined the reasons for why we ask for NIDs - we do have a lot of players trying to defraud us. There are many other checks in place to make sure they don't get anywhere near this far but this is one of our final ways to prevent them from succeeding.

In the 2nd statement I simply pointed out the frequency of the NID request and as mentioned the numbers were just to outline the rarity, they aren't the actual numbers. It doesn't often come to this - and when it does, we often have a case. There is nothing contradictory here.

Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

Kind regards,

Adam

So do all the other operators, yet they don't ask their players to post documents half way around the world.

As for finding three different sets of documents from three players in different countries having the same photo, you don't need notarised documents sent to the Philippines to spot that. Most other casinos spot that pretty quickly from the "normal" JPEGS that players have sent in during KYC.

It's also very odd that a player that has been with the group for a while, has been verified, and has made a number of deposits and withdrawals, suddenly gets lumped in with some "fraud ring". Almost all the frauds relate to the loss leading new player offers, particularly no deposit free chips (for obvious reasons). Such players do not carry on depositing and playing the lower value "loyalty bonuses", they cobble together another set of fake details and have another no deposit free chip or 200% introductory bonus. They know that formal KYC only takes place when they withdraw, so they will not be faced with cobbling together a full set of fake documents for every fraudulent account they create.

The message that is being sent out is that this trust is purely one way. Players are expected to trust a casino that has proven it's worth, yet a player will NEVER be trusted by the casino, no matter how much they have proven their worth through staying loyal for months, even years.

By making it more "normal" to have players post their documents out to Manila, you are taking the risk that this procedure will one day go horribly wrong, a player will post their documents, they will never arrive, and then they will have their identity stolen and misused. Whilst a link may not be proven, the ensuing investigation will involve the player having to tell the police of anything they can think of that may have lead to their sensitive documents and data ending up in the wrong hands, and they will say "well, there was this one time back in xxxx when Omni casino ordered me to send a notarised copy of my passport to the Philippines, and then they claimed it never arrived".

When it comes to EEA rules and regulations:-

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The request that a player from within the EU posts their documents to the Philippines is a potential violation of the Data Protection Rules.

Personal data shall not be transferred to a country or territory outside the EEA unless that country or territory ensures an adequate level of protection for the rights and freedoms of data subjects in relation to the processing of personal data.

There is a list of those non EEA countries that have been approved for their adequacy of data protection:-

The Commission has so far recognized Andorra, Argentina, Canada (commercial organisations), Faeroe Islands, Guernsey, Israel, Isle of Man, Jersey, New Zealand, Switzerland, Uruguay and the US Department of Commerce's Safe Harbour Privacy Principles as providing adequate protection.


I don't see the Philippines on that list, and until it makes the grade and gets EEA approval, no company should be sending their customers' personal data there for processing and storage.

It would seem that Playtech casinos are NOT looking after the interests of their customers, but are risking their customers' data in the pursuit of the lowest costs of operating their business.

It also seems rather odd given that Playtech is listed on the LONDON stock market, yet is sending it's most sensitive customer data out for storage and processing in the Philippines, rather than an EEA or commission approved non-EEA country. Why not store and process this sensitive player data in Britain, where the company is based?

I would consider a notarised hard copy of a document a far more serious threat than a mere JPEG image of one, as it is an original, not a copy, and therefore of more use to a fraudster if they were able to get hold of it.


Whilst it is very hard to prove where the links are, it does seem that the spammers have been somehow able to get hold of the kind of player data that should ONLY be held and processed in casinos' most secure data handling facilities. There is an obvious causal link between using an email address to sign up at casinos and the increase in volume of online casino related spam received by that address as compared to the background level of online casino related spam received to a "control" email address that is never used for any gambling related activity.

Data leakage is more likely from a data centre based in an EEA non approved country than an approved one, even though approval is no guarantee of zero risk.

Players already face a losing battle against spam related to their data managing to leak from casinos they have signed up with at some point, so naturally we don't trust the industry to take the best care they can to prevent this from happening.
 
After all I've been reading here about Playtech casinos regarding confiscation of funds, notarized IDs, etc. I'd stay cleer of all Playtech casinos, including the ones on the accredited list. Better safe than sorry.
 
After all I've been reading here about Playtech casinos regarding confiscation of funds, notarized IDs, etc. I'd stay cleer of all Playtech casinos, including the ones on the accredited list. Better safe than sorry.

I agree with you . Luckily I hate playtech but if I do play it occasionally it would only ever be at all the main british bookies. Knowing that if I won I would get it in one go and theres no danger they would say hey you have been a customer for 10 years, but you just won a lot so we are not paying until you send notarized id to the other side of the world.
 
I agree with you . Luckily I hate playtech but if I do play it occasionally it would only ever be at all the main british bookies. Knowing that if I won I would get it in one go and theres no danger they would say hey you have been a customer for 10 years, but you just won a lot so we are not paying until you send notarized id to the other side of the world.

I want to know more about it, is it only playtech that has that BS rule or are there some others that have it as well like Rival and RTG?

I also somehow doubt that big operators like bet365 would do anything like that. Hopefully playtech will do some shit so that all the big operators ditch them.
 
Sorry Adam but you quoted this
"In order to combat this and keep paying out real WDs to those who deserve them we request NIDs as it's the only surefire way that we can be 100% that the information given is correct"

Now maybe I am not the smartest there is but if you state the only way you can be sure of someone is by NID then it implies you must ask for it a lot or else how else can you be sure any of your customers is who they say they are.


Hi Paul,

This is the only way we can be sure the information is correct. However 99% of players don't fall into this category and we are able to verify them in a normal way without having to procure these docs.

Hope that helps.

All the best,

Adam
 
Hi All,

Just an update to my case, today in the morning, I get an email from Fly, saying that they have processed my withdraw I will have it within 4-7 days...
(Normally when I get this email I used to see the amount on my card as available immediately but not today..)

So to show my good intention I re-opened my accounts at the sisters ...but there is not much cash to play...:)...have to wait with patience :)

regards,
Carsten
 
I wont give a name now...but your guess is not wrong...

Hej Carsten.

I have had many withdraws from Fly and Omni with now problems at all...Omni I cashed out over $ 3000 and they never have asked for snail mail to Philipines. Once they do I will close my account for god.

I dont even know how to get these notarized documents, do you?
 

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