mrsteen4040 vs 10bet

mrsteen4040

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
uk
10bet
mrsteen40 Yesterday at 4:26 pm

Dear Mark,
Following investigation of your game play and your account, we identified bonus manipulation on 15.10.2012 and breach with our Casino terms and conditions - no. 29.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.
You placed single bets of more than 5% of your original deposit which is deemed bonus manipulation while you have a bonus active in your account, hence the winnings from this bet and subsequent winnings have been removed from your account.
You currently have your original deposit in your account available to you. Kindly note that as a gesture of good customer we will allow you to reclaim the bonus if you wish, however you should take note of our terms and conditions. If you wish to receive the bonus again, please contact us before you started playing.
If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Thank you!
Stephanie
10Bet Casino Manager
i recieved this e-mail after requesting a withdrawal for £700 won with a £20 deposit and 100% match bonus recieved on 30/10/2012 so why take it away for something done on 15/10/2012?

mrsteen40

Posts: 2
Join date: 2012-09-05

Re: 10bet
Admin Yesterday at 4:43 pm

This rule
"In the interest of fair gaming and to prevent bonus manipulation, 10Bet
reserves the right to take protective measures from customers, who
claimed a deposit bonus and placed bets equal to or more than 5% of
their deposited amount while the bonus was active in their account or
bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. In the case of Cashback bonus,
this rule applies to bets equal to or more than 5% of the bonus amount
credited
or bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. These measures include removal
of such winnings upon management discretion."

is really predatory term, and all what we can say about 10bet is - THEY CHEATING ALL PLAYERS.

My advice is :
you should post it here :
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

plus you should ask if they will let you withdraw your money or not.

Admin
Admin

Posts: 1630
Join date: 2011-04-08
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
... is really predatory term, and all what we can say about 10bet is - THEY CHEATING ALL PLAYERS.
Not it's not. Loads of other reputable casinos have similar terms limiting bet sizes when bonuses are in play.
It's in their T&Cs - so you should have read them before you stated playing.
At least they've given your deposit back & said you can play the bonus again if you want. That's NOT what most rogue casinos would do.

Sorry, you wont find much sympathy here...

Nevertheless - welcome to the best gambling forum on the net!
KK
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
.

I agree with what KK said. Many reputable casinos have similar rules. Players just need to learn that they always must read relevant terms and conditions when accepting bonuses.

Even the great 32Red casino has a similar rule on their welcome bonus: There is a maximum stake of 6.25 Chips (or coin equivalent) per bet until the playthrough requirement has been met.
 

JuicyFruit

Non-Gambler
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Location
Homeward Bound
...Loads of other reputable casinos have similar terms limiting bet sizes when bonuses are in play. ...Aleast they've given your deposit back & said you can play the bonus again if you want. That's NOT what most rogue casinos would do.
:thumbsup:

If the player did not read the T&Cs, and the mistake really was his, the unfortunate repercussions for 10bet is that now there is a thread available to anyone who searches the internet, labelling them bad payers (????) with predatory terms. And regrettably many people still believe in that old saying 'no smoke without fire'.

I just wish people would be more careful before they start posting inflammatory accusations to a global audience.

Perhaps one of the mods could change the thread title?
 

Balthazar

The Governor
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Location
Woodbury
.

I agree with what KK said. Many reputable casinos have similar rules. Players just need to learn that they always must read relevant terms and conditions when accepting bonuses.

Even the great 32Red casino has a similar rule on their welcome bonus: There is a maximum stake of 6.25 Chips (or coin equivalent) per bet until the playthrough requirement has been met.

I always read the TC's and never got caught in an unfortunate situation with a bonus, but I still see those things as a trap. If Rival can lock the games that aren't allowed and cap your bet size during a bonus, any software should be able to do it. Heck, some MG casinos even forbid the use of the built in autoplay feature during a bonus. Not predatory, but close.
 

mrsteen4040

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
uk
10bets reasons for failing to py-out

the people reading this post are assuming that i did not read the t's&c's at 10 bet but i can assure you i did,and the terms were both distorted and hidden from customers. If the terms were so clear why have 10bet changed the wording and highlighted hidden links after being advised by somebody trying to get my payout for me???????? and why did 10bet give me FOUR reasons for not paying out before finally settling for the reason that "Mr Steen only plays with bonuses and the higher ones"........WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH-THE TWO BONUSES I PLAYED WITH WERE 100% MATCH BONUSES.......and surely bonuses are to entice the customer to their casino.And finally why was a £25 "goodwill gesture" put in my account if they had only applied there t and c's..............To: Nicole
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Player problem
Hi, Nicole
Thank you for your reply.
I am disappointed you have decided not to award Mr Steen a full and unconditional payout as I believe he is entitled to, for the reasons I outlined in previous e-mails - primarily that you are expecting the player to understand confusing rules (as they were written at the time of play/deposit) and failed to display these rules prominently. The fact that you have recognised these problems and acted to correct them is a positive move but it only further makes your decision not to settle more illogical.
Mr Steen is an active member at casinomeister. Do you have an accredited rep at the forum? If so, I will recommending Mr Steen to 'PAB' via the usual channels.
Rob

Hi Rob,
I have updated the terms and conditions and have hyperlinked to the rules from each promotion terms and conditions. I did it like 32red do.
Sorry I am on the go now but will show you links on Monday.
Have a nice weekend,
Nicole
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mrsteen4040

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
uk
10bet bad payes

:thumbsup:

If the player did not read the T&Cs, and the mistake really was his, the unfortunate repercussions for 10bet is that now there is a thread available to anyone who searches the internet, labelling them bad payers (????) with predatory terms. And regrettably many people still believe in that old saying 'no smoke without fire'.

I just wish people would be more careful before they start posting inflammatory accusations to a global audience.

Perhaps one of the mods could change the thread title?

please read the e-mail sent from the 10bet casino manager acknowledging that the terms had been modified because of the incident.and maybe one of the mods could keep the thread title as it is!!!!
 

mrsteen4040

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
uk
10bet

Not it's not. Loads of other reputable casinos have similar terms limiting bet sizes when bonuses are in play.
It's in their T&Cs - so you should have read them before you stated playing.
At least they've given your deposit back & said you can play the bonus again if you want. That's NOT what most rogue casinos would do.

Sorry, you wont find much sympathy here...

Nevertheless - welcome to the best gambling forum on the net!
KK

the whole point of this thread is that the t and c's were not clear and were hidden from players.this has been acknowledged by the 10bet manager who has since re-written some terms and highlighted others(which in my mind is an admission that they got their wording wrong and amended them) so why no pay-out?
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
the people reading this post are assuming that i did not read the t's&c's at 10 bet but i can assure you i did,and the terms were both distorted and hidden from customers. If the terms were so clear why have 10bet changed the wording and highlighted hidden links after being advised by somebody trying to get my payout for me???????? and why did 10bet give me FOUR reasons for not paying out before finally settling for the reason that "Mr Steen only plays with bonuses and the higher ones"........WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH-THE TWO BONUSES I PLAYED WITH WERE 100% MATCH BONUSES.......and surely bonuses are to entice the customer to their casino.And finally why was a £25 "goodwill gesture" put in my account if they had only applied there t and c's..............To: Nicole
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Player problem
Hi, Nicole
Thank you for your reply.
I am disappointed you have decided not to award Mr Steen a full and unconditional payout as I believe he is entitled to, for the reasons I outlined in previous e-mails - primarily that you are expecting the player to understand confusing rules (as they were written at the time of play/deposit) and failed to display these rules prominently. The fact that you have recognised these problems and acted to correct them is a positive move but it only further makes your decision not to settle more illogical.
Mr Steen is an active member at casinomeister. Do you have an accredited rep at the forum? If so, I will recommending Mr Steen to 'PAB' via the usual channels.
Rob

Hi Rob,
I have updated the terms and conditions and have hyperlinked to the rules from each promotion terms and conditions. I did it like 32red do.
Sorry I am on the go now but will show you links on Monday.
Have a nice weekend,
Nicole

Who is Rob?

Why are you publicly posting his private email to someone else? I hope you had his permission.

Anyway, bottom line is you broke the rules, so move on.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mrsteen4040

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
uk
10bet

Who is Rob?

Why are you publicly posting his private email to someone else? I hope you had his permission.

Anyway, bottom line is you broke the rules, so move on.

would you move on if you were in this position?
?? i doubt it
 

mrsteen4040

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
uk
10bet

Thread title edited to be more precise.

I know Rob. Like Nifty said, I hope you had his permission to post his emails. Please let me know.

Nonetheless, please feel free to submit a PAB via here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

i thought i had deleted out the names,but i have explained to Rob what ha happened and am awaiting a reply. ive also asked him what a PAB is because i aint goit a clue :)
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
... asked him what a PAB is because i aint goit a clue :)

PAB = Pitch-A-Bitch, our free Complaints service offered to any and all Casinomeister members in good standing. See the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ for details. See PAB Archives for some history. See the links in my sig for a bunch of other interesting and related stuff.
 

[email protected]

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
Hi All :) I hope you have a great day, and it's still sunny where you are.

MRSteen404 had no permission to paste this correspondence, but let' me explain the situation.

Upon request of the recipient of the disposed correspondence (who as well had no permission to send it to Mr. Steen, but anyway we'll forgive :)) he advised to make the term better worded and more visible, which we took as an advice since we value any feedback that will help us improve and our players' experience. This does not mean that the term was wrongly written or was not in effect - this is the first reason why we didn't return Mr. Steen the payout. To clarify the change we made was first, that we linked from each promotion affected to these rules, and second we put that 'we will' confiscate the winnings, rather than 'we reserve the right' - upon the recipient of correspondence request. This was the only update of the rule which does not change the rule or its application. Indeed we do not void everyone's winnings who break this rule, but still let it say that way so players are more vigilant.

I see Mr. Steen posts only parts of the correspondence that suit him. However, please note that actually Mr. Steen broke this rule as well as the fact that he played restricted games with a bonus and in view of both we removed the winnings.

I am glad to help with any questions or comments, just ping me :)

Have a nice day!
 

[email protected]

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
Oh, forgot to say that of course we returned Mr. Steen the deposit and also offered him the option to claim the bonus again, should he agree to the terms and decide he wants a second chance at winning with the bonus.

:)

And if that was not enough we gave Mr. Steen a gesture of good will bonus of course, just to keep him happy, though we're not obliged to!
 

[email protected]

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
RE:

I always read the TC's and never got caught in an unfortunate situation with a bonus, but I still see those things as a trap. If Rival can lock the games that aren't allowed and cap your bet size during a bonus, any software should be able to do it. Heck, some MG casinos even forbid the use of the built in autoplay feature during a bonus. Not predatory, but close.


Hi Balthazar,
I understand the frustration that there's a rule in place, but the software allows you to break it and fall in a 'trap' as you say.

Well, unfortunately we for example are unable to develop such rule because of the different integration's we have with our providers and the system architecture. I wasn't aware about Rival, but the most popular casino software providers does not have this in-built unfortunately.

Not that this answer helps, but just thought good to share my experience.

Thanks,

Michelle
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Just to reiterate the privacy issue, please be more discreet when posting correspondence, email addresses, etc. As per our rules:

1.4 - No posting of privileged information. Please remember to respect other's privacy. In the public forum, do not post real names, email addresses, or other personal identifiers that may be considered privileged information; to include company "trade secrets", screenshots of company information, etc. If these items are already publicly available, this shouldn't be a problem. But if these are from private correspondence, or from some user database, discretion is advised.

You could have just as easily summarized your experiences - given us a verbal snapshot of what happened and we could have gone from there. Poorly written grievances breed apathy.
 

mrsteen4040

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
uk
10bet

firstly i would like to apologise for naming individuals in my threads. secondly in reply to Michelle,the goodwill bonus was placed in my account but was not touched until the eventual outcome was determined,at which point the bonus was taken out of my account and only replaced when an e-mail was sent to the manager saying how pathetic it was - not only to cancel the £700 but to also take back the goodwill gesture.
and also one point i really do not understand is the wording "the managements discretion"????
does this mean that certain individuals who break the ts and cs can still keep their winnings? and how do you determine who forfeits and who keeps? Maybe £700 was too much to payout and if the winnings had been £30 i would have been able to keep it "at the managers discreion"
 

Borgie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
MM
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
firstly i would like to apologise for naming individuals in my threads. secondly in reply to Michelle,the goodwill bonus was placed in my account but was not touched until the eventual outcome was determined,at which point the bonus was taken out of my account and only replaced when an e-mail was sent to the manager saying how pathetic it was - not only to cancel the £700 but to also take back the goodwill gesture.
and also one point i really do not understand is the wording "the managements discretion"????
does this mean that certain individuals who break the ts and cs can still keep their winnings? and how do you determine who forfeits and who keeps? Maybe £700 was too much to payout and if the winnings had been £30 i would have been able to keep it "at the managers discreion"

Hi All :) I hope you have a great day, and it's still sunny where you are.

MRSteen404 had no permission to paste this correspondence, but let' me explain the situation.

Upon request of the recipient of the disposed correspondence (who as well had no permission to send it to Mr. Steen, but anyway we'll forgive :)) he advised to make the term better worded and more visible, which we took as an advice since we value any feedback that will help us improve and our players' experience. This does not mean that the term was wrongly written or was not in effect - this is the first reason why we didn't return Mr. Steen the payout. To clarify the change we made was first, that we linked from each promotion affected to these rules, and second we put that 'we will' confiscate the winnings, rather than 'we reserve the right' - upon the recipient of correspondence request. This was the only update of the rule which does not change the rule or its application. Indeed we do not void everyone's winnings who break this rule, but still let it say that way so players are more vigilant.

I see Mr. Steen posts only parts of the correspondence that suit him. However, please note that actually Mr. Steen broke this rule as well as the fact that he played restricted games with a bonus and in view of both we removed the winnings.

I am glad to help with any questions or comments, just ping me :)

Have a nice day!

Sorry but you broke the rules , no questions , no doubt. Why would you expect them to pay you.

In future read the terms and conditions - we all live and learn. I am sorry but the casino are not in the wrong here !
 

[email protected]

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
firstly i would like to apologise for naming individuals in my threads. secondly in reply to Michelle,the goodwill bonus was placed in my account but was not touched until the eventual outcome was determined,at which point the bonus was taken out of my account and only replaced when an e-mail was sent to the manager saying how pathetic it was - not only to cancel the £700 but to also take back the goodwill gesture.
and also one point i really do not understand is the wording "the managements discretion"????
does this mean that certain individuals who break the ts and cs can still keep their winnings? and how do you determine who forfeits and who keeps? Maybe £700 was too much to payout and if the winnings had been £30 i would have been able to keep it "at the managers discreion"

Mr. Steen I would suggest to take this privately, but since you keep posting things which are not true I must keep spamming the community.

So first, your good will bonus was NOT removed - it expired because you didn't touch it. As soon as we were aware of it we refunded the bonus, so it's not fair to make further groundless accusations. The person with whom the manager spoke with asked us about the bonus (which was weird as we expected the customer to ask) and we reinstated the bonus and explained the situation that the bonus simply expired. I am surprised this information was not shared with you but all the rest :)

Kindly note the rules apply when you play with a bonus, otherwise your winnings are not subject to revision as all reputable online casino.

Your broke two rules, not one so here is our discretion. You won on games forbidden from bonus play which is serious bonus manipulation, albeit it could be unintentional.

Last - you joined the best online casino forum where you can read plenty of verified information about general casino rules and bonus rules, to better understand how this works.

I hope I helped :)
 

mrsteen4040

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
uk
10bet

Mr. Steen I would suggest to take this privately, but since you keep posting things which are not true I must keep spamming the community.

So first, your good will bonus was NOT removed - it expired because you didn't touch it. As soon as we were aware of it we refunded the bonus, so it's not fair to make further groundless accusations. The person with whom the manager spoke with asked us about the bonus (which was weird as we expected the customer to ask) and we reinstated the bonus and explained the situation that the bonus simply expired. I am surprised this information was not shared with you but all the rest :)

Kindly note the rules apply when you play with a bonus, otherwise your winnings are not subject to revision as all reputable online casino.

Your broke two rules, not one so here is our discretion. You won on games forbidden from bonus play which is serious bonus manipulation, albeit it could be unintentional.

Last - you joined the best online casino forum where you can read plenty of verified information about general casino rules and bonus rules, to better understand how this works.

I hope I helped :)

i would appreciate not being made out to be a liar as i have all correspondence and e-mails to back up what i am writing.and i did not contact the casino about the case because i got nowhere with them,so i asked somebody with experience of these things to help. i notice you point out that i broke two rules (what happened to the other 3 i was told the winnings had been forfeited for) including one which said they had been forfeited for the way i had played on 15/10/2012???
Lastly the manager of the casino said "he is playing for the sole purpose of claiming bonuses given his game play so far, and of course only the big ones" - are bonuses not there to be played??? and to entice players to your casino?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
Mr. Steen I would suggest to take this privately, but since you keep posting things which are not true I must keep spamming the community.

So first, your good will bonus was NOT removed - it expired because you didn't touch it. As soon as we were aware of it we refunded the bonus, so it's not fair to make further groundless accusations. The person with whom the manager spoke with asked us about the bonus (which was weird as we expected the customer to ask) and we reinstated the bonus and explained the situation that the bonus simply expired. I am surprised this information was not shared with you but all the rest :)

Kindly note the rules apply when you play with a bonus, otherwise your winnings are not subject to revision as all reputable online casino.

Your broke two rules, not one so here is our discretion. You won on games forbidden from bonus play which is serious bonus manipulation, albeit it could be unintentional.

Last - you joined the best online casino forum where you can read plenty of verified information about general casino rules and bonus rules, to better understand how this works.

I hope I helped :)

i would appreciate not being made out to be a liar as i have all correspondence and e-mails to back up what i am writing.and i did not contact the casino about the case because i got nowhere with them,so i asked somebody with experience of these things to help. i notice you point out that i broke two rules (what happened to the other 3 i was told the winnings had been forfeited for) including one which said they had been forfeited for the way i had played on 15/10/2012???
Lastly the manager of the casino said "he is playing for the sole purpose of claiming bonuses given his game play so far, and of course only the big ones" - are bonuses not there to be played??? and to entice players to youasino?

Why dont you do this via PM, seems like a little antagonistic to me, which I dont think will help your cause, just saying.
 
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