mrsteen4040 vs 10bet

[mrsteen4040]

10bet
mrsteen40 Yesterday at 4:26 pm

Dear Mark,
Following investigation of your game play and your account, we identified bonus manipulation on 15.10.2012 and breach with our Casino terms and conditions - no. 29.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.
You placed single bets of more than 5% of your original deposit which is deemed bonus manipulation while you have a bonus active in your account, hence the winnings from this bet and subsequent winnings have been removed from your account.
You currently have your original deposit in your account available to you. Kindly note that as a gesture of good customer we will allow you to reclaim the bonus if you wish, however you should take note of our terms and conditions. If you wish to receive the bonus again, please contact us before you started playing.
If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Thank you!
Stephanie
10Bet Casino Manager
i recieved this e-mail after requesting a withdrawal for £700 won with a £20 deposit and 100% match bonus recieved on 30/10/2012 so why take it away for something done on 15/10/2012?

mrsteen40

Posts: 2
Join date: 2012-09-05

Re: 10bet
Admin Yesterday at 4:43 pm

This rule
"In the interest of fair gaming and to prevent bonus manipulation, 10Bet
reserves the right to take protective measures from customers, who
claimed a deposit bonus and placed bets equal to or more than 5% of
their deposited amount while the bonus was active in their account or
bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. In the case of Cashback bonus,
this rule applies to bets equal to or more than 5% of the bonus amount
credited
or bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. These measures include removal
of such winnings upon management discretion."

is really predatory term, and all what we can say about 10bet is - THEY CHEATING ALL PLAYERS.

My advice is :
you should post it here :
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

plus you should ask if they will let you withdraw your money or not.

Admin
Admin

Posts: 1630
Join date: 2011-04-08

 

[KasinoKing]

... is really predatory term, and all what we can say about 10bet is - THEY CHEATING ALL PLAYERS.

Not it's not. Loads of other reputable casinos have similar terms limiting bet sizes when bonuses are in play.
It's in their T&Cs - so you should have read them before you stated playing.
At least they've given your deposit back & said you can play the bonus again if you want. That's NOT what most rogue casinos would do.

Sorry, you wont find much sympathy here...

Nevertheless - welcome to the best gambling forum on the net!
KK

 

[Seventh777]

What has not complying to the T&C`s of a bonus got to do with a casino`s integrity regarding payouts?.

 

[rainmaker]

.

I agree with what KK said. Many reputable casinos have similar rules. Players just need to learn that they always must read relevant terms and conditions when accepting bonuses.

Even the great 32Red casino has a similar rule on their welcome bonus: There is a maximum stake of 6.25 Chips (or coin equivalent) per bet until the playthrough requirement has been met.

 

[JuicyFruit]

...Loads of other reputable casinos have similar terms limiting bet sizes when bonuses are in play. ...Aleast they've given your deposit back & said you can play the bonus again if you want. That's NOT what most rogue casinos would do.

If the player did not read the T&Cs, and the mistake really was his, the unfortunate repercussions for 10bet is that now there is a thread available to anyone who searches the internet, labelling them bad payers (????) with predatory terms. And regrettably many people still believe in that old saying 'no smoke without fire'.

I just wish people would be more careful before they start posting inflammatory accusations to a global audience.

Perhaps one of the mods could change the thread title?

 

[Balthazar]

.

I agree with what KK said. Many reputable casinos have similar rules. Players just need to learn that they always must read relevant terms and conditions when accepting bonuses.

Even the great 32Red casino has a similar rule on their welcome bonus: There is a maximum stake of 6.25 Chips (or coin equivalent) per bet until the playthrough requirement has been met.

I always read the TC's and never got caught in an unfortunate situation with a bonus, but I still see those things as a trap. If Rival can lock the games that aren't allowed and cap your bet size during a bonus, any software should be able to do it. Heck, some MG casinos even forbid the use of the built in autoplay feature during a bonus. Not predatory, but close.

 

[mrsteen4040]

10bets reasons for failing to py-out

the people reading this post are assuming that i did not read the t's&c's at 10 bet but i can assure you i did,and the terms were both distorted and hidden from customers. If the terms were so clear why have 10bet changed the wording and highlighted hidden links after being advised by somebody trying to get my payout for me???????? and why did 10bet give me FOUR reasons for not paying out before finally settling for the reason that "Mr Steen only plays with bonuses and the higher ones"........WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH-THE TWO BONUSES I PLAYED WITH WERE 100% MATCH BONUSES.......and surely bonuses are to entice the customer to their casino.And finally why was a £25 "goodwill gesture" put in my account if they had only applied there t and c's..............To: Nicole
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Player problem
Hi, Nicole
Thank you for your reply.
I am disappointed you have decided not to award Mr Steen a full and unconditional payout as I believe he is entitled to, for the reasons I outlined in previous e-mails - primarily that you are expecting the player to understand confusing rules (as they were written at the time of play/deposit) and failed to display these rules prominently. The fact that you have recognised these problems and acted to correct them is a positive move but it only further makes your decision not to settle more illogical.
Mr Steen is an active member at casinomeister. Do you have an accredited rep at the forum? If so, I will recommending Mr Steen to 'PAB' via the usual channels.
Rob

Hi Rob,
I have updated the terms and conditions and have hyperlinked to the rules from each promotion terms and conditions. I did it like 32red do.
Sorry I am on the go now but will show you links on Monday.
Have a nice weekend,
Nicole

 

[mrsteen4040]

10bet bad payes

If the player did not read the T&Cs, and the mistake really was his, the unfortunate repercussions for 10bet is that now there is a thread available to anyone who searches the internet, labelling them bad payers (????) with predatory terms. And regrettably many people still believe in that old saying 'no smoke without fire'.

I just wish people would be more careful before they start posting inflammatory accusations to a global audience.

Perhaps one of the mods could change the thread title?

please read the e-mail sent from the 10bet casino manager acknowledging that the terms had been modified because of the incident.and maybe one of the mods could keep the thread title as it is!!!!

 

[mrsteen4040]

10bet

Not it's not. Loads of other reputable casinos have similar terms limiting bet sizes when bonuses are in play.
It's in their T&Cs - so you should have read them before you stated playing.
At least they've given your deposit back & said you can play the bonus again if you want. That's NOT what most rogue casinos would do.

Sorry, you wont find much sympathy here...

Nevertheless - welcome to the best gambling forum on the net!
KK

the whole point of this thread is that the t and c's were not clear and were hidden from players.this has been acknowledged by the 10bet manager who has since re-written some terms and highlighted others(which in my mind is an admission that they got their wording wrong and amended them) so why no pay-out?

 

[ilovejesus]

hi

10bet good casino

 

[mrsteen4040]

10bet

10bet good casino

all casinos are good until they upset you

 

[Nifty29]

the people reading this post are assuming that i did not read the t's&c's at 10 bet but i can assure you i did,and the terms were both distorted and hidden from customers. If the terms were so clear why have 10bet changed the wording and highlighted hidden links after being advised by somebody trying to get my payout for me???????? and why did 10bet give me FOUR reasons for not paying out before finally settling for the reason that "Mr Steen only plays with bonuses and the higher ones"........WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH-THE TWO BONUSES I PLAYED WITH WERE 100% MATCH BONUSES.......and surely bonuses are to entice the customer to their casino.And finally why was a £25 "goodwill gesture" put in my account if they had only applied there t and c's..............To: Nicole
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Player problem
Hi, Nicole
Thank you for your reply.
I am disappointed you have decided not to award Mr Steen a full and unconditional payout as I believe he is entitled to, for the reasons I outlined in previous e-mails - primarily that you are expecting the player to understand confusing rules (as they were written at the time of play/deposit) and failed to display these rules prominently. The fact that you have recognised these problems and acted to correct them is a positive move but it only further makes your decision not to settle more illogical.
Mr Steen is an active member at casinomeister. Do you have an accredited rep at the forum? If so, I will recommending Mr Steen to 'PAB' via the usual channels.
Rob

Hi Rob,
I have updated the terms and conditions and have hyperlinked to the rules from each promotion terms and conditions. I did it like 32red do.
Sorry I am on the go now but will show you links on Monday.
Have a nice weekend,
Nicole

Who is Rob?

Why are you publicly posting his private email to someone else? I hope you had his permission.

Anyway, bottom line is you broke the rules, so move on.

 

[The Dude]

Thread title edited to be more precise.

I know Rob. Like Nifty said, I hope you had his permission to post his emails. Please let me know.

Nonetheless, please feel free to submit a PAB via here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

 

[mrsteen4040]

10bet

Who is Rob?

Why are you publicly posting his private email to someone else? I hope you had his permission.

Anyway, bottom line is you broke the rules, so move on.

would you move on if you were in this position?
?? i doubt it

 

[mrsteen4040]

10bet

Thread title edited to be more precise.

I know Rob. Like Nifty said, I hope you had his permission to post his emails. Please let me know.

Nonetheless, please feel free to submit a PAB via here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

i thought i had deleted out the names,but i have explained to Rob what ha happened and am awaiting a reply. ive also asked him what a PAB is because i aint goit a clue

 

[maxd]

... asked him what a PAB is because i aint goit a clue

PAB = Pitch-A-Bitch, our free Complaints service offered to any and all Casinomeister members in good standing. See the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ for details. See PAB Archives for some history. See the links in my sig for a bunch of other interesting and related stuff.

 

[David@10Bet]

Hi All I hope you have a great day, and it's still sunny where you are.

MRSteen404 had no permission to paste this correspondence, but let' me explain the situation.

Upon request of the recipient of the disposed correspondence (who as well had no permission to send it to Mr. Steen, but anyway we'll forgive ) he advised to make the term better worded and more visible, which we took as an advice since we value any feedback that will help us improve and our players' experience. This does not mean that the term was wrongly written or was not in effect - this is the first reason why we didn't return Mr. Steen the payout. To clarify the change we made was first, that we linked from each promotion affected to these rules, and second we put that 'we will' confiscate the winnings, rather than 'we reserve the right' - upon the recipient of correspondence request. This was the only update of the rule which does not change the rule or its application. Indeed we do not void everyone's winnings who break this rule, but still let it say that way so players are more vigilant.

I see Mr. Steen posts only parts of the correspondence that suit him. However, please note that actually Mr. Steen broke this rule as well as the fact that he played restricted games with a bonus and in view of both we removed the winnings.

I am glad to help with any questions or comments, just ping me

Have a nice day!

 

[David@10Bet]

Oh, forgot to say that of course we returned Mr. Steen the deposit and also offered him the option to claim the bonus again, should he agree to the terms and decide he wants a second chance at winning with the bonus.



And if that was not enough we gave Mr. Steen a gesture of good will bonus of course, just to keep him happy, though we're not obliged to!

 

[David@10Bet]

RE:

I always read the TC's and never got caught in an unfortunate situation with a bonus, but I still see those things as a trap. If Rival can lock the games that aren't allowed and cap your bet size during a bonus, any software should be able to do it. Heck, some MG casinos even forbid the use of the built in autoplay feature during a bonus. Not predatory, but close.

Hi Balthazar,
I understand the frustration that there's a rule in place, but the software allows you to break it and fall in a 'trap' as you say.

Well, unfortunately we for example are unable to develop such rule because of the different integration's we have with our providers and the system architecture. I wasn't aware about Rival, but the most popular casino software providers does not have this in-built unfortunately.

Not that this answer helps, but just thought good to share my experience.

Thanks,

Michelle

 

[The Dude]

Just to reiterate the privacy issue, please be more discreet when posting correspondence, email addresses, etc. As per our rules:

1.4 - No posting of privileged information. Please remember to respect other's privacy. In the public forum, do not post real names, email addresses, or other personal identifiers that may be considered privileged information; to include company "trade secrets", screenshots of company information, etc. If these items are already publicly available, this shouldn't be a problem. But if these are from private correspondence, or from some user database, discretion is advised.

You could have just as easily summarized your experiences - given us a verbal snapshot of what happened and we could have gone from there. Poorly written grievances breed apathy.

 

[mrsteen4040]

10bet

firstly i would like to apologise for naming individuals in my threads. secondly in reply to Michelle,the goodwill bonus was placed in my account but was not touched until the eventual outcome was determined,at which point the bonus was taken out of my account and only replaced when an e-mail was sent to the manager saying how pathetic it was - not only to cancel the £700 but to also take back the goodwill gesture.
and also one point i really do not understand is the wording "the managements discretion"????
does this mean that certain individuals who break the ts and cs can still keep their winnings? and how do you determine who forfeits and who keeps? Maybe £700 was too much to payout and if the winnings had been £30 i would have been able to keep it "at the managers discreion"

 

[Borgie]

firstly i would like to apologise for naming individuals in my threads. secondly in reply to Michelle,the goodwill bonus was placed in my account but was not touched until the eventual outcome was determined,at which point the bonus was taken out of my account and only replaced when an e-mail was sent to the manager saying how pathetic it was - not only to cancel the £700 but to also take back the goodwill gesture.
and also one point i really do not understand is the wording "the managements discretion"????
does this mean that certain individuals who break the ts and cs can still keep their winnings? and how do you determine who forfeits and who keeps? Maybe £700 was too much to payout and if the winnings had been £30 i would have been able to keep it "at the managers discreion"

Hi All I hope you have a great day, and it's still sunny where you are.

MRSteen404 had no permission to paste this correspondence, but let' me explain the situation.

Upon request of the recipient of the disposed correspondence (who as well had no permission to send it to Mr. Steen, but anyway we'll forgive ) he advised to make the term better worded and more visible, which we took as an advice since we value any feedback that will help us improve and our players' experience. This does not mean that the term was wrongly written or was not in effect - this is the first reason why we didn't return Mr. Steen the payout. To clarify the change we made was first, that we linked from each promotion affected to these rules, and second we put that 'we will' confiscate the winnings, rather than 'we reserve the right' - upon the recipient of correspondence request. This was the only update of the rule which does not change the rule or its application. Indeed we do not void everyone's winnings who break this rule, but still let it say that way so players are more vigilant.

I see Mr. Steen posts only parts of the correspondence that suit him. However, please note that actually Mr. Steen broke this rule as well as the fact that he played restricted games with a bonus and in view of both we removed the winnings.

I am glad to help with any questions or comments, just ping me

Have a nice day!

Sorry but you broke the rules , no questions , no doubt. Why would you expect them to pay you.

In future read the terms and conditions - we all live and learn. I am sorry but the casino are not in the wrong here !

 

[David@10Bet]

firstly i would like to apologise for naming individuals in my threads. secondly in reply to Michelle,the goodwill bonus was placed in my account but was not touched until the eventual outcome was determined,at which point the bonus was taken out of my account and only replaced when an e-mail was sent to the manager saying how pathetic it was - not only to cancel the £700 but to also take back the goodwill gesture.
and also one point i really do not understand is the wording "the managements discretion"????
does this mean that certain individuals who break the ts and cs can still keep their winnings? and how do you determine who forfeits and who keeps? Maybe £700 was too much to payout and if the winnings had been £30 i would have been able to keep it "at the managers discreion"

Mr. Steen I would suggest to take this privately, but since you keep posting things which are not true I must keep spamming the community.

So first, your good will bonus was NOT removed - it expired because you didn't touch it. As soon as we were aware of it we refunded the bonus, so it's not fair to make further groundless accusations. The person with whom the manager spoke with asked us about the bonus (which was weird as we expected the customer to ask) and we reinstated the bonus and explained the situation that the bonus simply expired. I am surprised this information was not shared with you but all the rest

Kindly note the rules apply when you play with a bonus, otherwise your winnings are not subject to revision as all reputable online casino.

Your broke two rules, not one so here is our discretion. You won on games forbidden from bonus play which is serious bonus manipulation, albeit it could be unintentional.

Last - you joined the best online casino forum where you can read plenty of verified information about general casino rules and bonus rules, to better understand how this works.

I hope I helped

 

[mrsteen4040]

10bet

Mr. Steen I would suggest to take this privately, but since you keep posting things which are not true I must keep spamming the community.

So first, your good will bonus was NOT removed - it expired because you didn't touch it. As soon as we were aware of it we refunded the bonus, so it's not fair to make further groundless accusations. The person with whom the manager spoke with asked us about the bonus (which was weird as we expected the customer to ask) and we reinstated the bonus and explained the situation that the bonus simply expired. I am surprised this information was not shared with you but all the rest

Kindly note the rules apply when you play with a bonus, otherwise your winnings are not subject to revision as all reputable online casino.

Your broke two rules, not one so here is our discretion. You won on games forbidden from bonus play which is serious bonus manipulation, albeit it could be unintentional.

Last - you joined the best online casino forum where you can read plenty of verified information about general casino rules and bonus rules, to better understand how this works.

I hope I helped

i would appreciate not being made out to be a liar as i have all correspondence and e-mails to back up what i am writing.and i did not contact the casino about the case because i got nowhere with them,so i asked somebody with experience of these things to help. i notice you point out that i broke two rules (what happened to the other 3 i was told the winnings had been forfeited for) including one which said they had been forfeited for the way i had played on 15/10/2012???
Lastly the manager of the casino said "he is playing for the sole purpose of claiming bonuses given his game play so far, and of course only the big ones" - are bonuses not there to be played??? and to entice players to your casino?

 

[me_and_ed]

Mr. Steen I would suggest to take this privately, but since you keep posting things which are not true I must keep spamming the community.

So first, your good will bonus was NOT removed - it expired because you didn't touch it. As soon as we were aware of it we refunded the bonus, so it's not fair to make further groundless accusations. The person with whom the manager spoke with asked us about the bonus (which was weird as we expected the customer to ask) and we reinstated the bonus and explained the situation that the bonus simply expired. I am surprised this information was not shared with you but all the rest

Kindly note the rules apply when you play with a bonus, otherwise your winnings are not subject to revision as all reputable online casino.

Your broke two rules, not one so here is our discretion. You won on games forbidden from bonus play which is serious bonus manipulation, albeit it could be unintentional.

Last - you joined the best online casino forum where you can read plenty of verified information about general casino rules and bonus rules, to better understand how this works.

I hope I helped

i would appreciate not being made out to be a liar as i have all correspondence and e-mails to back up what i am writing.and i did not contact the casino about the case because i got nowhere with them,so i asked somebody with experience of these things to help. i notice you point out that i broke two rules (what happened to the other 3 i was told the winnings had been forfeited for) including one which said they had been forfeited for the way i had played on 15/10/2012???
Lastly the manager of the casino said "he is playing for the sole purpose of claiming bonuses given his game play so far, and of course only the big ones" - are bonuses not there to be played??? and to entice players to youasino?

Why dont you do this via PM, seems like a little antagonistic to me, which I dont think will help your cause, just saying.

 

[Realitybitez]

QUOTE: You placed single bets of more than 5% of your original deposit which is deeme

Crikeys, that's news to me. Are you only allowed to played bets of less than 5% of your deposit? Weird, I always thought it was 30% of your deposit on most casino's per spin. 5% seems sooo little! Sheesh, I best be reading the terms more thoroughly now

 

[Nifty29]

Mr. Steen I would suggest to take this privately, but since you keep posting things which are not true I must keep spamming the community.

So first, your good will bonus was NOT removed - it expired because you didn't touch it. As soon as we were aware of it we refunded the bonus, so it's not fair to make further groundless accusations. The person with whom the manager spoke with asked us about the bonus (which was weird as we expected the customer to ask) and we reinstated the bonus and explained the situation that the bonus simply expired. I am surprised this information was not shared with you but all the rest

Kindly note the rules apply when you play with a bonus, otherwise your winnings are not subject to revision as all reputable online casino.

Your broke two rules, not one so here is our discretion. You won on games forbidden from bonus play which is serious bonus manipulation, albeit it could be unintentional.

Last - you joined the best online casino forum where you can read plenty of verified information about general casino rules and bonus rules, to better understand how this works.

I hope I helped

i would appreciate not being made out to be a liar as i have all correspondence and e-mails to back up what i am writing.and i did not contact the casino about the case because i got nowhere with them,so i asked somebody with experience of these things to help. i notice you point out that i broke two rules (what happened to the other 3 i was told the winnings had been forfeited for) including one which said they had been forfeited for the way i had played on 15/10/2012???
Lastly the manager of the casino said "he is playing for the sole purpose of claiming bonuses given his game play so far, and of course only the big ones" - are bonuses not there to be played??? and to entice players to your casino?

Now you're making up pointless arguments about which rule the manager was referring to when he made the above statement.

What you're NOT doing is addressing the important information relayed to us by Michelle.

NOW Mr Steen.....here is a very simple question that requires a one word answer (and remember this can be easily confirmed by Maxd or Bryan with Michelle):

Did you play restricted/excluded games with your bonus?

Either way, your credibility is shot to pieces, as one answer will prove you've been posting BS to get sympathy, and the other answer will lead to you being revealed as a bare-faced liar when your play history is examined.

Be a grown up and admit you didn't read the rules properly and got busted.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Crikeys, that's news to me. Are you only allowed to played bets of less than 5% of your deposit? Weird, I always thought it was 30% of your deposit on most casino's per spin. 5% seems sooo little! Sheesh, I best be reading the terms more thoroughly now

Correct. There is no industry wide standard, and I have seen 30% and 25% widely. 5% seems pretty low, and far easier to break by accident than 30%. What we don't know is by how much the OP exceeded the 5%, it could have been 100% played on a single bet.

It is better to state "we will" and then offer goodwill gestures, rather than use "we may" and leave the door wide open to arguments about the severity of the breach.


As for software suppliers not offering implementation of such rules, this is something operators have to take up with them, not players. Rival shows that it is possible, so it is down to other software suppliers to code similar features. They should also think about multi platform casinos, and make it possible for a third party tool to interface with the game modules and apply these restrictions.

Members here know from experience that the majority of software suppliers have a blanket policy of not engaging directly with players, so any pressure for the development of additional features has to come from the operators, or other industry bodies.

 

[David@10Bet]

Thanks everyone for the comments.

Just to clarify, here we talk about a rule ONLY when a player has a bonus active in their account.

Otherwise a player can play 100% if they wish with their deposit.
Cheers,
Michelle

 

[maphesto]

Just to clarify, here we talk about a rule ONLY when a player has a bonus active in their account.

I think that everyone here understands that. Even if this is in your T&C:s I think it's a really bad rule. 5% is way to low. I understand casinos who have 30% of bonus amount or a specified amount as 6$ as max bet or something when paying with bonus.

However, in this particular case it seems like OP wasn't quite honest and he shouldn't be paid.

 

[HadEnouth]

Time and time again people lose out due to T&C relating to bonuses. When will people learn, Ive said it over and over in the past, Don't take any bonuses, They are a trap. The Terms around bonus are getting even more silly these days. The safest way to play and get your winnings is play at a accredited casino of course and play with no bonus. They have less of a excuse not to pay. There is too much small print and hidden terms about bonues and can be easy used for none payment.

 

[dionysus]

I disagree
Nothing wrong with taking a bonus from a reliable, accredited casino and clarifying the terms and saving the transcript, before you begin playing

 

[maxd]

PAB received.

@mrsteen4040: A gentle reminder that we do expect PABers to have read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. Please pay special attention to the restrictions regarding forum posts while your PAB is active (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

).

 

[maxd]

FTR the PAB process is complete: we support the casino's actions on the grounds that there were multiple and repeated Terms violations. The player's argument that they couldn't find the Terms is feeble at best, and quite unfounded in this particular case. If you can't find the Terms then ask for them, proceeding without knowing what they are makes it the player's responsibility if and when they break them.

 

[bgirl1986]

My First Post 10 Bet Casino

I have just made the same mistake I was offered a bonus from the chat rep I deposited $20usd and 20mins later my balance was topped up to $51aud I waited online with the rep for half an hour and not once did she mention my max wagering bet for my deposit is 95cent MAX (I mean she should know with all the people complaining to her about making a mistake on the 5% wagering rule)Anyway I managed to get my balance up to $400 after WR but after of learning this rule I asked another chat rep about it and they said that they have sent my account off to management and to wait for a reply in my email I have a feeling I'm going to received the same letter from Stephanie
that Mark got for making a few $2 bets I mean that 5% rule is stupid if your max bet has to be under $1usd and the wagering requirements is like 30 or 40 times the bonus and deposit I am still waiting for the email as this just happen to me a few hours ago

10bet
mrsteen40 Yesterday at 4:26 pm

Dear Mark,
Following investigation of your game play and your account, we identified bonus manipulation on 15.10.2012 and breach with our Casino terms and conditions - no. 29.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.
You placed single bets of more than 5% of your original deposit which is deemed bonus manipulation while you have a bonus active in your account, hence the winnings from this bet and subsequent winnings have been removed from your account.
You currently have your original deposit in your account available to you. Kindly note that as a gesture of good customer we will allow you to reclaim the bonus if you wish, however you should take note of our terms and conditions. If you wish to receive the bonus again, please contact us before you started playing.
If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Thank you!
Stephanie
10Bet Casino Manager
i recieved this e-mail after requesting a withdrawal for £700 won with a £20 deposit and 100% match bonus recieved on 30/10/2012 so why take it away for something done on 15/10/2012?

mrsteen40

Posts: 2
Join date: 2012-09-05

Re: 10bet
Admin Yesterday at 4:43 pm

This rule
"In the interest of fair gaming and to prevent bonus manipulation, 10Bet
reserves the right to take protective measures from customers, who
claimed a deposit bonus and placed bets equal to or more than 5% of
their deposited amount while the bonus was active in their account or
bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. In the case of Cashback bonus,
this rule applies to bets equal to or more than 5% of the bonus amount
credited
or bet size of 6.25, whichever is lower. These measures include removal
of such winnings upon management discretion."

is really predatory term, and all what we can say about 10bet is - THEY CHEATING ALL PLAYERS.

My advice is :
you should post it here :
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

plus you should ask if they will let you withdraw your money or not.

Admin
Admin

Posts: 1630
Join date: 2011-04-08

 

[bigjohn]

If they still have that rule and you did indeed break it you should be able to figure out how it will probably end up. Sometimes the T&C's seem extreme or silly but when you join you accept them and agree to be bound by them.

 

[bgirl1986]

I know but not everyone reads the terms of every casino they play especially accredited ones.
All I'm saying is that the terms are hidden in the smallest writing ever and way at the bottom so many thousands of people will deposit $20 for the 100%deposit bonus then get caught out from playing a game where min wagering is a $1 and not knowing they can't even bet that without losing all your winnings It is a bit predatory And I'm pretty shall there heaps of other casinos that have this term as well?

If they still have that rule and you did indeed break it you should be able to figure out how it will probably end up. Sometimes the T&C's seem extreme or silly but when you join you accept them and agree to be bound by them.

 

[SubzeroWins]

Time and time again people lose out due to T&C relating to bonuses. When will people learn, Ive said it over and over in the past, Don't take any bonuses, They are a trap. The Terms around bonus are getting even more silly these days. The safest way to play and get your winnings is play at a accredited casino of course and play with no bonus. They have less of a excuse not to pay. There is too much small print and hidden terms about bonues and can be easy used for none payment.

There's nothing wrong with taking a bonus. You just have to be smart enough to read the T&C's carefully and pick out the best ones.
For example this one is horrible if you deposit small amounts, as you will likely not clear the wagering with small bets.

Therefore the 5% rule is a bit silly but 6 euro max bet is very acceptable to me.

 

[zreb]

The 5% term is written clearly and directly in the terms, so unfortunately for the two players in this thread, they're probably out of luck unless the casino for some reason grants lenience - no way to know whether or not they deserve this without more detailed playing information.

However, I do think this term borders on the predatory. First, it's "equal to or greater than," which itself can catch some players at the edge, and 5% of only the deposit, not deposit+bonus, is very small. If you deposit $20 and receive a $20 bonus, for a $40 total bankroll, and make a $1 bet on blackjack, you've broken the terms. I would guess that over half of players would bet more than 5% of their deposit at some point in their normal, non-bonus play - perhaps my estimate is off, but it's still a sizeable number. While it is of course the responsibility of the player to read the terms, I think something is also a bit off when the terms restrict you from what would otherwise be completely normal play.

When you further factor in the very high wagering requirements on the bonus, you end up with a situation where inexperienced players are basically getting fleeced between these two terms. The point of restrictive bonus terms is to protect the casino against advantage play, but if you scare off all of the regular players, that's all you'll have left.

On a related note, I've found that 10-bet has a habit of "forgetting" to credit cashback bonuses, and with the long waits while using live chat to talk to someone, it just generally isn't worth the hassle.

 

[bgirl1986]

Lessons Learned

I just figured since its accredited They wouldn't have t.c like that.
Maybe that's why the chat rep kept me on hold for 30mins when I asked what the wagering requirements were.
I will just have to wait until 2morrows email to know what there answer is about my game play and my funds.
I mean I kept all my bets $2 and under..

The 5% term is written clearly and directly in the terms, so unfortunately for the two players in this thread, they're probably out of luck unless the casino for some reason grants lenience - no way to know whether or not they deserve this without more detailed playing information.

However, I do think this term borders on the predatory. First, it's "equal to or greater than," which itself can catch some players at the edge, and 5% of only the deposit, not deposit+bonus, is very small. If you deposit $20 and receive a $20 bonus, for a $40 total bankroll, and make a $1 bet on blackjack, you've broken the terms. I would guess that over half of players would bet more than 5% of their deposit at some point in their normal, non-bonus play - perhaps my estimate is off, but it's still a sizeable number. While it is of course the responsibility of the player to read the terms, I think something is also a bit off when the terms restrict you from what would otherwise be completely normal play.

When you further factor in the very high wagering requirements on the bonus, you end up with a situation where inexperienced players are basically getting fleeced between these two terms. The point of restrictive bonus terms is to protect the casino against advantage play, but if you scare off all of the regular players, that's all you'll have left.

On a related note, I've found that 10-bet has a habit of "forgetting" to credit cashback bonuses, and with the long waits while using live chat to talk to someone, it just generally isn't worth the hassle.

 

[bigjohn]

The 5% term is written clearly and directly in the terms, so unfortunately for the two players in this thread, they're probably out of luck unless the casino for some reason grants lenience - no way to know whether or not they deserve this without more detailed playing information.

However, I do think this term borders on the predatory. First, it's "equal to or greater than," which itself can catch some players at the edge, and 5% of only the deposit, not deposit+bonus, is very small. If you deposit $20 and receive a $20 bonus, for a $40 total bankroll, and make a $1 bet on blackjack, you've broken the terms. I would guess that over half of players would bet more than 5% of their deposit at some point in their normal, non-bonus play - perhaps my estimate is off, but it's still a sizeable number. While it is of course the responsibility of the player to read the terms, I think something is also a bit off when the terms restrict you from what would otherwise be completely normal play.

When you further factor in the very high wagering requirements on the bonus, you end up with a situation where inexperienced players are basically getting fleeced between these two terms. The point of restrictive bonus terms is to protect the casino against advantage play, but if you scare off all of the regular players, that's all you'll have left.

On a related note, I've found that 10-bet has a habit of "forgetting" to credit cashback bonuses, and with the long waits while using live chat to talk to someone, it just generally isn't worth the hassle.

The first case had already been concluded, this thread was over a year old when it was resurrected. The OP filed a PAB and it was unsuccessful.

 

[chuchu59]

The first case had already been concluded, this thread was over a year old when it was resurrected. The OP filed a PAB and it was unsuccessful.

I would rather resurrect Roy aka Seventh777 than this thread.

 

[Nifty29]

I know but not everyone reads the terms of every casino they play especially accredited ones.
All I'm saying is that the terms are hidden in the smallest writing ever and way at the bottom so many thousands of people will deposit $20 for the 100%deposit bonus then get caught out from playing a game where min wagering is a $1 and not knowing they can't even bet that without losing all your winnings It is a bit predatory And I'm pretty shall there heaps of other casinos that have this term as well?

If this is your attitude to reading terms, then you're in for a world of hurt.

Everyone should read the terms regardless of accredited status. Every casino is different.

The 5% rule might be silly, but it's there and you agreed to be bound by it.

 

[bgirl1986]

10bet

Yes I know that now (Lesson learned the hard way)I just never thought a rule like that existed in the world of online gaming and Ive deposited in a lot of accredited casinos and not once have had something like this happen to me Will definitely be reading all terms from now on..

If this is your attitude to reading terms, then you're in for a world of hurt.

Everyone should read the terms regardless of accredited status. Every casino is different.

The 5% rule might be silly, but it's there and you agreed to be bound by it.

 

[chuchu59]

If this is your attitude to reading terms, then you're in for a world of hurt.

Everyone should read the terms regardless of accredited status. Every casino is different.

The 5% rule might be silly, but it's there and you agreed to be bound by it.

While players need to read terms it is necessary for casinos to place the terms in a prominent spot and highlight anything they believe are of importance than burying them within a heap. Otherwise they may have acted in bad faith. Yep, players, like consumers, are ultimately responsible but in the real world consumer advocates will give the offending organisations a slap in the wrists.

 

[Nifty29]

While players need to read terms it is necessary for casinos to place the terms in a prominent spot and highlight anything they believe are of importance than burying them within a heap. Otherwise they may have acted in bad faith. Yep, players, like consumers, are ultimately responsible but in the real world consumer advocates will give the offending organisations a slap in the wrists.

In reality, ALL terms are important. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there and you wouldn't need to agree to them.

If every term that people such as yourself say should be highlighted and in a prominent position actually WERE, there would be dozens of highlighted terms which kind of makes the whole exercise pointless.

Every term cannot be put in a prominent position. It's ridiculous.

Just read the terms, or cop the consequences.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

In reality, ALL terms are important. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there and you wouldn't need to agree to them.

If every term that people such as yourself say should be highlighted and in a prominent position actually WERE, there would be dozens of highlighted terms which kind of makes the whole exercise pointless.

Every term cannot be put in a prominent position. It's ridiculous.

Just read the terms, or cop the consequences.

Yes or go on live chat and ask of most important terms like. Max bet, max withdrawal, eligible games and so on. And make sure to take copy of it as you will have proof

 

[bgirl1986]

bet10

They have said I can keep the credit I won as long as i keep with the terms from now on!
So happy