Lucky 247 - bonus terms concerns

[mrshyguy]

4) was actually pretty common. However, some places wouldn't even change notes so that people could play the machines, which seems pretty daft. The excuse of "we don't have the change" could be addressed by making it known that they would change coins back to notes for winners.

However, fellow players would often change notes for coins or vice versa as a service for mutual benefit. There was also an advantage in having loads of pound coins in a place where change to play was hard to get, as it meant people abandoned "buzzed up" machines due to lack of change

If you were deemed to be on "someone's patch", there would sometimes be an unofficial "X times bankroll walk out" term applied out in the car park I did once have this term applied to me in the car park of Knutsford services in 1996, but it was more an opportunistic levy, rather than due to being on someone's patch. Some regulars also tried to apply such a term to me in the 1980's in East Reading, but they failed.

However, officially the worst that would happen is being thrown out once you had "won too much". Taking the money would be deemed a theft or even a "mugging", and would have the arcade owner taking a trip down to the police station. The online equivalent is probably the bonus ban, although there have been instances of players being banned even from playing without bonuses for winning too much.

ahhh the good old days.......although not in your league vinyl many moons ago i won my first jackpot at south mims truck stop, while waiting to pay for my fuel i found myself just sticking a fiver into a machine called cashino and won £500.00 quid, but in those days the machine payed out in pound coins with no way to change them to notes, so i had to stuff 500 pond coins into my trouser pockets.......no mean feat i can tell you....i had to walk back to my truck looking like john wayne on steroids and thats without trying to climb into the cab....

 

[vinylweatherman]

ahhh the good old days.......although not in your league vinyl many moons ago i won my first jackpot at south mims truck stop, while waiting to pay for my fuel i found myself just sticking a fiver into a machine called cashino and won £500.00 quid, but in those days the machine payed out in pound coins with no way to change them to notes, so i had to stuff 500 pond coins into my trouser pockets.......no mean feat i can tell you....i had to walk back to my truck looking like john wayne on steroids and thats without trying to climb into the cab....

Sounds like the good YOUNG days, and those "new" £500 jackpot video machines.

I did even better at Rownhams on the M27, stuck ONE pound in, and got the £500 JP

I didn't have the problem of carrying £500 in coins though, the machine ran empty just after £300 Again an arbitrary 300x stake withdrawal limit with the excess confiscated.

A machine called "Double Agent" arbitrarily confiscated £20 from me in February this year, again at Rownhams (dodgy note acceptor). Beware the coin to note machine at South Mimms (main services) too, it charges commission (It's not supposed to).

Coin to note machines are something I have only seen recently, and only at a couple of places so far. If they work, it's good news for players. The days of not being able to change notes for coins are mostly over too as machines now have note acceptors as standard.

 

[Jono777]

4) was actually pretty common. However, some places wouldn't even change notes so that people could play the machines, which seems pretty daft. The excuse of "we don't have the change" could be addressed by making it known that they would change coins back to notes for winners.

However, fellow players would often change notes for coins or vice versa as a service for mutual benefit. There was also an advantage in having loads of pound coins in a place where change to play was hard to get, as it meant people abandoned "buzzed up" machines due to lack of change

If you were deemed to be on "someone's patch", there would sometimes be an unofficial "X times bankroll walk out" term applied out in the car park I did once have this term applied to me in the car park of Knutsford services in 1996, but it was more an opportunistic levy, rather than due to being on someone's patch. Some regulars also tried to apply such a term to me in the 1980's in East Reading, but they failed.

However, officially the worst that would happen is being thrown out once you had "won too much". Taking the money would be deemed a theft or even a "mugging", and would have the arcade owner taking a trip down to the police station. The online equivalent is probably the bonus ban, although there have been instances of players being banned even from playing without bonuses for winning too much.

Yes for sure I came across these 'situations' in various guises more than once.

I recall a set of two lads bending over the machine (think it was Sandbach services) to check the tube levels, just as Me and my 'bandit buddy' were walking off, 'chinking like a change machine' - I recall vaguely it starting off slightly confrontational, something along the lines of 'we've travelled 50 miles' but after a quick change of 'inside knowledge' things cooled off straightaway, especially when I falsely told then that we had not 'done the other side yet' (time for a sharp exit, we were young and they were bigger than us )

Another 'territory' problem occured in Stafford, The Bird in Hand pub, it was the end of a very successful day on the Barcrest Up N Over machine and I was almost dancing as the JP repeated for the 'X'th' time only to be told 'Enough Jon' looking over my shoulder to see the barman baseball bat in and and several 'restless locals' glaring at me.

Needless to say I lost my bottle for a few days and took that location off our 'to do list'

 

[vinylweatherman]

Yes for sure I came across these 'situations' in various guises more than once.

I recall a set of two lads bending over the machine (think it was Sandbach services) to check the tube levels, just as Me and my 'bandit buddy' were walking off, 'chinking like a change machine' - I recall vaguely it starting off slightly confrontational, something along the lines of 'we've travelled 50 miles' but after a quick change of 'inside knowledge' things cooled off straightaway, especially when I falsely told then that we had not 'done the other side yet' (time for a sharp exit, we were young and they were bigger than us )

Another 'territory' problem occured in Stafford, The Bird in Hand pub, it was the end of a very successful day on the Barcrest Up N Over machine and I was almost dancing as the JP repeated for the 'X'th' time only to be told 'Enough Jon' looking over my shoulder to see the barman baseball bat in and and several 'restless locals' glaring at me.

Needless to say I lost my bottle for a few days and took that location off our 'to do list'

I think you are more likely to run into serious trouble at a pub, rather than the services.

However, things are not always so clear. I once hit several jackpots on a machine in a local pub in SCOTLAND (I am English), and I had my friend with me. Instead of trouble, I was cheered by the locals for "getting one over" on the tight fisted bandit machine.

I have been thrown out of a few arcades, forcefully in the case of Brighton after winning a mere £17 on those "skill cash climb" machines. It came to a head when I was investigating a possible, but damn hard to achieve, emptier for Barcrest "Cash Counter". The swift ejection, with instruction NOT to play my tokens back into Cash Counter, was enough to confirm that the alleged emptier was real, and I had obviously been spotted doing it right.

"Fuck off down the pier" was their retort. Probably why their arcade was empty, and the pier "heaving" with "players", even though it was December. I nipped up the coast a little way and hit a smaller seaside town.

 

[Jono777]

I think you are more likely to run into serious trouble at a pub, rather than the services.

However, things are not always so clear. I once hit several jackpots on a machine in a local pub in SCOTLAND (I am English), and I had my friend with me. Instead of trouble, I was cheered by the locals for "getting one over" on the tight fisted bandit machine.

I have been thrown out of a few arcades, forcefully in the case of Brighton after winning a mere £17 on those "skill cash climb" machines. It came to a head when I was investigating a possible, but damn hard to achieve, emptier for Barcrest "Cash Counter". The swift ejection, with instruction NOT to play my tokens back into Cash Counter, was enough to confirm that the alleged emptier was real, and I had obviously been spotted doing it right.

"Fuck off down the pier" was their retort. Probably why their arcade was empty, and the pier "heaving" with "players", even though it was December. I nipped up the coast a little way and hit a smaller seaside town.

For sure, I definatley preferred the arcade and service station trips, always on edge in the pubs, well at least until my dutch courage kicked in !

I think I remember that Barcrest Cash Counter, if I'm thinking of the right machine I never lost on it to but although we searched around didn't find many.

If I recall correctly it was a £4 JP token machine with a £2 cash 'Ready Pot repeater'

There was a little green 'S-K-I-L-L' which was easy when slow and I think all you had to do was get to the 3rd feature at the very bottom of the board, collect it and this was then all skill based to get to the JP or Ready Pot.

We discovered once it had reached a certain 'speed' to keep the start/stop button held in and 'Jump' it - practicing until we mastered the timing so that hold, release, hold, release etc it would stop on the 2nd 'L' of skill as desired and we basically milked it this way.

Most of our forcers or emptiers were arcade based and I recall several 'audiences' with the arcade staff once our faces were known, although surprisingly not many bans

I do recall being 'ejected' from an arcade in West Bromwich with a polite, never darken our doors speech, but this was probably something to do with the fact we'd emptied the Hi-Flyer (the Ace one with the skinny red n blue 7's) the engineer arrived to re-float at which my mate said 'If you fill that we will empty it again' (how fair were we ) - to which he replied 'I'd like to see you try' - I mean how can we resist an offer like that!!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

For sure, I definatley preferred the arcade and service station trips, always on edge in the pubs, well at least until my dutch courage kicked in !

I think I remember that Barcrest Cash Counter, if I'm thinking of the right machine I never lost on it to but although we searched around didn't find many.

If I recall correctly it was a £4 JP token machine with a £2 cash 'Ready Pot repeater'

There was a little green 'S-K-I-L-L' which was easy when slow and I think all you had to do was get to the 3rd feature at the very bottom of the board, collect it and this was then all skill based to get to the JP or Ready Pot.

We discovered once it had reached a certain 'speed' to keep the start/stop button held in and 'Jump' it - practicing until we mastered the timing so that hold, release, hold, release etc it would stop on the 2nd 'L' of skill as desired and we basically milked it this way.

Most of our forcers or emptiers were arcade based and I recall several 'audiences' with the arcade staff once our faces were known, although surprisingly not many bans

I do recall being 'ejected' from an arcade in West Bromwich with a polite, never darken our doors speech, but this was probably something to do with the fact we'd emptied the Hi-Flyer (the Ace one with the skinny red n blue 7's) the engineer arrived to re-float at which my mate said 'If you fill that we will empty it again' (how fair were we ) - to which he replied 'I'd like to see you try' - I mean how can we resist an offer like that!!!

That's the one, and it worked on a few Barcrest machines. It was supposed to be "impossible" at the top speed setting, but the "jump" would beat it. This is what I did just prior to being forcefully removed from the Brighton arcades I had been practicing for a while.

The Bell Fruit skill climbs were also very good at sucking all the value out of the machines, and it was usually possible to make money from them unless some equally accurate "climbers" had been on it. The slower it went, the more value there was in the machine for the taking. The first skill feature would be enough to judge whether it was worth the effort.

In the end, the programmers removed the "true" skill element, and once the block was reached, skill climb features would "cheat" by jumping off the last letter or number. It was pretty obvious sometimes. They probably realised that having the "impossible" speed setting on an otherwise non cheating feature didn't work once the "pro" players got on it.

I remember a later ACE emptier for "Payrise". I found one at Southwaite services on the way up to Scotland and emptied it. On my return south a couple of days later, the engineer hadn't bothered refloating the one I had emptied, but next to it was a brand new £6 version of the same machine. I emptied that as well I remember seeing some bloke in a suit, probably a manager at the services, stood some way back watching the whole empty, so I gave him a good show. Neither machines were refloated after that, but I don't think many players had gone up that far, so it may have been the first time they had seen it done.

 

[Jono777]

Another quality story, could fill CM with 'gambling tales' never mind just this thread!

Me and my 'gambling buddy' are still close mates today and no matter how 'hard we try' find our conversations regularly heading to the 'days of old' when machine had the various skill elements and features etc.

In reference to the BFM 'skill climbs' the best 2 memories I have were Wolverhampton Train Station (they had 'Cash Force (ironic name) and some traffic light type machine) with the 'traffic' through the station we could usually hit them daily, sometimes twice.

However the very best was when the travelling funfair came to West Park for some sort of 'event' there was a big arcade set up there full of these skill machines.

I never got very good at them but my mate was sh*t hot, at the fair the skills were so slow it was like a dream come true, I had to start them off as they were so slow and he was used to the faster speeds he kept pressing too early to start with.

By the time we left (about £200 in profit) the skills were at max speed and we'd moved onto the newer machines and 'caught' the Road Hog and Monopoly Streaks too. Made a sharp exit as I got paranoid that we'd 'robbed' the wrong people, still went back the following year to major disappointment that our 'cash points' had been replaced by an array of Bar-X type machines and 'Roll Up's

 

[player82]

Lucky 247 - They only went and did it! A WARNING!!!!!

I posted on Sunday and they have as feared confiscated winnings hiding behind the discretional terms that is misplaced in the withdrawals section of their T&C's I will now if lucky get 6x deposit. Avoid this site like the plague I am still wrestling with their terrible customer service to get approved even though sent docs last Saturday and when I asked why they had exercised the right to limit my winning they said they always do. If so why not say this more prominently, I think we all know the answer to this. I strongly advise the users this site to boycott this site for more reasons than I have time to list right now.

Any thoughts on how to get the money that I risked and grinded for is very welcome.

Thanks

Matt

 

[Dinahnana]

I posted on Sunday and they have as feared confiscated winnings hiding behind the discretional terms that is misplaced in the withdrawals section of their T&C's I will now if lucky get 6x deposit. Avoid this site like the plague I am still wrestling with their terrible customer service to get approved even though sent docs last Saturday and when I asked why they had exercised the right to limit my winning they said they always do. If so why not say this more prominently, I think we all know the answer to this. I strongly advise the users this site to boycott this site for more reasons than I have time to list right now.

Any thoughts on how to get the money that I risked and grinded for is very welcome.

Thanks

Matt

Contact rep here https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/33544/ Should always be first port of call before a complaint is posted on an accredited casino.

 

[Gemma A]

Try the rep on here they are good

 

[brianmon]

I deposited £50, and took the 100% SUB in December 2013, finished the WR and withdrew £1000. So they weren't enforcing that clause then. Unless it's been added since

 

[Jono777]

To be honest, although I had (and still do) my reservations about these guys, despite their accreditation I was quite surprised to see you OP.

I personally don't play there (other info I gave you as you know was based on wife's experiences) and the reason for this is that there is something about them that I 'can't quite put my finger on'

Excuse the speculation and I hope I am wrong but it would not surprise me in the slightest If in the future they pull some regular 'stunts' which may shed a shadow on their accreditation etc.

Take my advice from your other thread, learn from it and play at 32 Red if you want MG download casinos.

 

[Gemma A]

I deposited £50, and took the 100% SUB in December 2013, finished the WR and withdrew £1000. So they weren't enforcing that clause then. Unless it's been added since

2013 ? 2 years ago

 

[brianmon]

2013 ? 2 years ago

yeah 2013 17 months ago

 

[Jakestar]

I'm just picturing the meme now..
"Won $13,000 on DOA at Lucky247 from just a tenner


6x withdrawal term exercised"

 

[Gemma A]

yeah 2013 17 months ago

Yes i played there for sometime , The customer support was awful, Live chat never worked and never got answer at times and when it did some did not know what they were doing .Say the less very unlucky on that site with the amount i deposited .I did deal with a rep on here before but not sure if they regular view there page or answer messages at the quick speed like some other casino .But they may have changed not sure .I agree with the above play at 32 red or energy casino they are far better support team and all in all better set up the lucky 247

 

[player82]

Thanks all £50 deposited turned into £1475 absolutely gutted to get £300 now (if I ever get that) have messaged rep and of course if they sort this I will happily reassess my opinion.

 

[Jakestar]

I would not get too worried about it yet. Wait and see what happens. Since this is your first withdraw your going to have to send KYC documents before they pay you so the first time takes a little longer.

This term is vague:
Where a sign-up Bonus has been credited to you, and after meeting all wagering requirements, you will be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 6 times your first deposit amount and any remaining balance will be forfeited. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.

They are an accredited casino here so I would not expect them to be blindly applying this FU clause without good reason. Give them an opportunity to pay you and then contact the rep here if you really need to.

 

[hedgehok]

I'm just picturing the meme now..
"Won $13,000 on DOA at Lucky247 from just a tenner


6x withdrawal term exercised"

Make it IR/TSII or something like this instead (these guys are Microgaming only)

 

[Jakestar]

Make it IR/TSII or something like this instead (these guys are Microgaming only)

Oh hehe.. oops didn't know that >_< too late! Posted one to the meme thread already

 

[vinylweatherman]

I posted on Sunday and they have as feared confiscated winnings hiding behind the discretional terms that is misplaced in the withdrawals section of their T&C's I will now if lucky get 6x deposit. Avoid this site like the plague I am still wrestling with their terrible customer service to get approved even though sent docs last Saturday and when I asked why they had exercised the right to limit my winning they said they always do. If so why not say this more prominently, I think we all know the answer to this. I strongly advise the users this site to boycott this site for more reasons than I have time to list right now.

Any thoughts on how to get the money that I risked and grinded for is very welcome.

Thanks

Matt

As you are in the UK, make a formal complaint to the UK arbitrator, and cite consumer contract laws. Unlike much of the market, the new UK regime offers far more legal protection against such terms. It's more the way it's worded than the term itself that helps your case. Had they made it a clear "always" term, they may well have been able to get it past UK consumer laws, but as they have written it as a vague "reserve the right", they will have to justify the "exceptional circumstances" that caused them to impose the term in your case. If they can't, it can be struck out by the court (you may have to take them to court over this, but the court will expect you to have first tried the formal mediation procedures specified by the UKGC regime).

This is also something to bring to the attention of the UKGC during one of it's regular consultations. As this has actually happened to you, you are best placed to do this.

 

[dunover]

As you are in the UK, make a formal complaint to the UK arbitrator, and cite consumer contract laws. Unlike much of the market, the new UK regime offers far more legal protection against such terms. It's more the way it's worded than the term itself that helps your case. Had they made it a clear "always" term, they may well have been able to get it past UK consumer laws, but as they have written it as a vague "reserve the right", they will have to justify the "exceptional circumstances" that caused them to impose the term in your case. If they can't, it can be struck out by the court (you may have to take them to court over this, but the court will expect you to have first tried the formal mediation procedures specified by the UKGC regime).

This is also something to bring to the attention of the UKGC during one of it's regular consultations. As this has actually happened to you, you are best placed to do this.

I agree with Rumpole for once, this is a fucking outrageous, unfair and predatory term. I really think it's time the affies dropped these sites that have this ridiculous term. A selective, predatory F-U term of the vilest order.

If this is going to be a regular occurrence, ANY accredited sites that have slipped it in under the radar should be immediately dropped in the pit IMO and go back to 'under review'.

Don't tell me, in bloody great colours and flashing lights 'NEW PLAYER 100% BONUS!!!'

Of course in brackets on the promotional banner it stated 'Max withdrawal 6 x deposit'....

Did it ****!

I've reported this to Bryan/Max. It stinks.

 

[Captain Chaos]

So sorry to hear about your position OP. Terrible thing to have happen really. The casino will of course say 'it's in terms' etc. In most circumstances I'd support the casino in their stance, usually due to bet sizes etc. But I'm afraid not on this one. By all means slap a max withdrawal on NDB's or mega bonuses (such as a 1000% DB), but this? No way. It's a standard bonus. If you were to go to almost any other casino on the accredited list you would be unlikely to find such a term. Why? Because it is unfair. If a casino wants to control their risk in a fair manner on a normal bonus then they should impose things like bet size limits or game restrictions. Not a 6x withdrawal limit on a standard welcome bonus. Why is this bonus not being applied across the board? Why just the welcome bonus? Where is the logic? All you'll do is make someone who has won big disappear to a rival, possibly losing out on long term profits from them. This is bad for the player and bad for business IMO.

Does this term apply to winnings on Progressives to? If it does, then that really is the pits!

 

[player82]

Doesn't apply to progressives they are explicitly excluded but seems strange we'll f*ck you for 1000 but 30000 that's fine we'll take that on the chin

 

[Captain Chaos]

Doesn't apply to progressives they are explicitly excluded but seems strange we'll f*ck you for 1000 but 30000 that's fine we'll take that on the chin

Progressives are pooled together from all players across the network, so once hit, they just pay it out, no loss to the casino whatsoever. I'm relieved they don't, I think we all remember the Playtech horror show. Still doesn't make the situation here any better obviously.