Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[BJesus]

This is Playtech's response to me as well. Reputation is not that important to them I guess.

Casinomeister is the final hope as they are not going to pay as things stand.

 

[jetset]

I agree that this only serves to exacerbate an already bad situation, and Joyland have still not responded to our enquiries and chasers.

To be fair to Playtech, they have little experience in the mediation line having only recently started their disputes channel. They should be acting as the mediator between the player and the casino rather than simply getting the casino to call players.

I have contacted Iris today underlining the importance of handling this growing crisis in a more appropriate manner - let's hope they have the smarts to get this situation in hand asap.

 

[TrixSlice]

Jetset, I'm sure everyone appreciates you taking control of this situation for now.

 

[120sam]

I've never played at this casino, but have been following this thread with interest. Reports of changing transaction logs and not responding to customers is a reason for me to avoid all casinos in this group.

I have a question - I've never played there, but am I right in understanding that it's normal for players to convert their comp points before they cash out from this casino? Apart from John Galt it's what everyone seems to have done.

If that's so, then has everyone who cashed out during the week that the casino entered the wrong conversion rate been refused their winnings because they clicked on the comp points button before cashing out?

Excuse me if I've got the wrong end of the stick, like I said, I've never played there and don't even know what comp points are. But it did occur to me while reading this thread that the casino has had whole week of people depositing and wagering, taking all the money from the losers and all the winnings back from the winners. That really is a no-risk business!

Plus many of those who were innocently but pleasantly surprised by the conversion rate, and those savvy players who realised it must be a mistake, will have deposited and wagered more than they normally would have. Players who would normally have left with a win have carried on playing instead.

The casino must have made an absolute fortune during that week, and it looks like they intend to hang on to it. The increased profit for them during their "mistake week" must exceed the dreams of the most optimistic scam merchant.

It makes me wonder why rogue casinos put so much effort into working out new ways to fleece punters when they could make much more money with a simple mistake. At least they could if no-one held them accountable for it.

Is anyone going to hold this casino accountable? Playtech? Bryan? The parent company? Players boycotting playtech? I sure hope so.

 

[TheBloke]

I got the exact same email, even though my complain was different to most peoples' - I was asking for my deposit back (if they took all winnings, then all deposits should be returned too), rather than claiming doctored winnings.

Looks like Playtech have set up a stock response email for anyone emailing about Joyland, regardless of its contents! Looks like it's pretty simple running a dispute system - just forward everyone on to the casino! Effective.

 

[jetset]

Jetset, I'm sure everyone appreciates you taking control of this situation for now.

Heh! I'm not sure I'm in control of the situation, Trix but I'm making some noise with Playtech, we've got the dispute channel up again and I've had a rather confusing email from someone at Casinopays/Joyland on which I'm seeking clarification - and I've used the opportunity to give them some practical advice on how to sort this mess out in a fair and responsible way that goes beyond garbled phone calls and unanswered contact numbers.

More when I have it.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Heh! I'm not sure I'm in control of the situation, Trix but I'm making some noise with Playtech, we've got the dispute channel up again and I've had a rather confusing email from someone at Casinopays/Joyland on which I'm seeking clarification - and I've used the opportunity to give them some practical advice on how to sort this mess out in a fair and responsible way that goes beyond garbled phone calls and unanswered contact numbers.

More when I have it.

Well you're certainly the best chance these guys have right now. I think 120Sam made some really astute observations. As more information comes forward about the ownership of this casino I fully expect to find that Joyland is owned and operated by the same group as at least one or two other popular Playtech Casinos (possibly Monaco Gold, Carnival.) If it were as simple for these owners to just close up Joyland Casino and forget all about that I would be slightly concerned that they might exercise this option.

Thank goodness for people let Jetset and Casinomeister. Not but a very few of normal players at a casino would think "Hey Joyland screwed a bunch of people out of money ... better not play at their affiliates" because they would not be aware of such connection, nor would they perhaps be aware of the Joyland situation a month or two from now. With this kind of lack of accountability of the true owners, casinos could pop up all over the place under the same ownership/management and not have to worry about scamming people, as when they did they could just shut down that particular casino and start anew a few months later with another one, still reaping in the profit from however many other casinos they have open.

It's because of watchdog sites like these, and it's users who are willing to spread the word as far as it could possibly reach that when all the facts do come forward about this that the agents(s) who are attempting to defraud players and possibly any other agent that knowingly facilitated that action will be held accountable across the entire spectrum of it's holdings. To let it be known that the owner/manager/group who was part of this must comply to the pervasive will of the players, or suffer in illegitimacy in all of their dealings in the online gaming world, not just those where the transgression took place.

It's this kind of pressure that this website helps convey. This is the kind of pressure that will lead the online gaming world towards the goals that most of us hold for it. Cleaning it up, removing it from a dark corner of American online activities and bringing it to the point of regulation and full legitimacy that I assume nearly everyone here hopes for.

I want to thank you and others like you for your effort, as a situation like this one that represents a turning point in player's faith in casinos, I applaud your effort.

The Gunslinger

 

[scrollock]

I've only ever played at a few playtechs for the simple reason that i find the cards shocking and the customer support using every single trick in the book to delay cash out in the hope that you forget and give up. this has happened at EVERY single playtech, including some which belong to the same group as joyland.

Even my worse experience at an MG compares very favourably to best i have ever had at a playtech. The tactics these casinos that use playtech when it comes to cash outs are inherently dishonest.

I dont mean to go off-topic here, but this is something that has bugged me for a while, but why is it all the honourable casinos choose MG, yet all the casinos that employ these underhand tactics choose playtech/RTG, is it because the software that is crooked aswell as the casinos, hence the attraction.

for it does seem that playtech does attract the dishonest casinos like flies round sh!t, so even though i have never played at joyland i can well believe all the things that have been posted in this thread.

Although this problem concerns joyland, i think all players should give all the playtechs casinos a wide berth till this is resolved, especially the ones in this group, because until people stop playing there, they will continue to pull this crap time and time again.

 

[Pinababy69]

Although this problem concerns joyland, i think all players should give all the playtechs casinos a wide berth till this is resolved, especially the ones in this group, because until people stop playing there, they will continue to pull this crap time and time again.

After reading through this whole thread, those are my thoughts exactly. I stick mostly to Microgaming, but occasionally a dose of Playtech was enjoyable. I will NEVER deposit into another Playtech until Playtech themselves give some sort of satisfactory reply as to how a casino, any casino, can just go in and "modify" a player's logs. The comp points thing on it's own is terrible, being locked out is terrible, having your withdrawal voided is terrible, but to have your whole history wiped out as if it never happened? That is so far beyond unacceptable, and I cannot believe that Playtech is not addressing at least that issue immediately. I am done with Playtech, period.

 

[kavaman]

dispute channel

So far the playtech dispute channel really uninmpresses me i mean it seems worse then RTG and thats BAD. Putting players back to contacting the casino. How is that for handling a dispute. I just dont get it. They should mediate and check that if the player played according to the casino rules, and make a decision. Not just to step aside and put the player back to contacting the casino.

Also i just dont understand this phone use. It would be far better to solve the problems by e-mail so there would be some proof of what exactly is going on. Also many people including myself play at online casinos for the reason they do not wish to have direct contact with any casinos or answer phone calls.

-kavaman

 

[scrollock]

So far the playtech dispute channel really uninmpresses me i mean it seems worse then RTG and thats BAD. Putting players back to contacting the casino. How is that for handling a dispute. I just dont get it. They should mediate and check that if the player played according to the casino rules, and make a decision. Not just to step aside and put the player back to contacting the casino.

Also i just dont understand this phone use. It would be far better to solve the problems by e-mail so there would be some proof of what exactly is going on. Also many people including myself play at online casinos for the reason they do not wish to have direct contact with any casinos or answer phone calls.

-kavaman

this phone tactic seems to be standard with playtech, for instance i once played at monaco gold i cashed out,my winnings never turned up, i phoned up the casino and was told i was asked for id and had never sent it (you know the old "we emailed you" trick which EVERY SINGLE PLAYTECH employs). i asked the CS girl if she could send the email again, she said she couldnt as it is "policy" that emails asking for ID arn't sent out, but i pointed out that you claim to have sent it once yet you say it is against policy to send such an email, which is it?

cut a long story short, i tied the girl up in knots and she admitted to me to that it is policy that communication regarding payouts are never conducted by email so there wouldnt be a record of it.

the other playtechs i have played are the golden palace group who were very kind enough to phone me up as soon as i opened my account and guide me through depositing my cash. however when it came to cashing out i was met with email silence, after a few weeks i was told by phone i had to send in ID ( they claimed to have asked for it in an email aswell). i sent it in, a week went by, complete email silence again, i phoned again i was given an excuse about my documents being unreadable. i asked "why couldn't you reply to my emails explaining this". over the next few weeks i had the same, my emails were all ignored, followed by phonecalls where i was given the same excuse about my ID.

in the end i told them that i knew they were jerking me around, and would they be so kind as to communicate by email that they are having a problem reading my ID and i would then refer the matter to a third party who could then verify my ID, this i was told was impossible as it is against policy to communicate by email regarding cashout problems.

so it is the simple fact that all playtechs employ this policy because it prevents you having some kind of evidence to take to a disputes board.

from what i have read about the playtech dispute response to this situation makes it sound like this is an agreement between playtech and its casinos to hinder all disputes.

facts is playtech casinos are dishonest, playtech software is dishonest and the whole playtech organisation is corrupt through and through

 

[jetset]

I agree with Gunslinger that 120Sam's thoughts are worth reading on this issue, as are the contributions of many others here such as Kavaman and Scrollock.

There's an earlier post here somewhere that linked Joyland with Monaco Gold and Club Dice, and interestingly those operations were recently purchased for $40 million by Noam Lanir's Empire Online, shortly after its successful IPO.

I suppose it is possible that this change is having these crazy repercussions we're experiencing, but as this deal was only announced early this month/late July I doubt that operational matters such as this would have been influenced already.

Concerning the Playtech channel, you will recall that when Montana was set up it was initially excruciatingly slow and bad at communicating, but I think its fair to say it has improved - it's not up to gold standard but there has been some improvement.

Handling player disputes is not as easy as it might appear, and if Playtech are sincere about this, their channel will receive more attention and exhibit better standards of customer sensitivity and real mediation, rather than playing tennis with emails to its casinos and the players.

BTW, this predilection for telephone calls permeates much of the industry - there are plenty folks in online casino land who try the smooth patter on the phone rather than the hard and recorded fact of email exchanges!

 

[liatk]

Joyland Customer Care reply!!!

To all Joyland Casino players ,

In response to the CasinoMeister forum posts, we trust the following explanation will clear up everybody's questions and confusion.

The main issue revolves around the fact that there was a mismatch in the way comp points were calculated.
We reviewed the players who played at Joyland Casino and the Casino management decided to cut the winnings of players who were seen to be abusers of the system. These "abusers" were the people who saw the failure in the system and played non-risky games in order to accumulate as many comp points as possible. Joyland's fraud department then refunded the initial deposits of all those players and decided to call each one of them personally.

All players that play at Joyland Casino have to agree with the terms and conditions prior to playing where it states that the Casino Management is able to make decisions such as this. If you wish to re-read these terms and conditions please see

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

If, by mistake, some players still have not been contacted via phone, be sure that you will be contacted - we will NOT forget you!
All players we have managed to reach over the phone were pleased, satisfied and full of understanding.

We have recently heard from some players that they had the feeling that Joyland Casino Support ignored them. Joyland Casino Support sincerely apologizes for that and are making it their priority to repair this and they ensure that everyone will get the quality support they so deserve.
There was no intention from the Joyland Casino to offend anyone, they simply intended to protect themselves against casino abusers.

Those of you who have not been contacted by Joyland support, or those who have further queries, please could you call the Joyland support again.
Toll Free US/Canada: 1-866-516-0607 and International: 1-268-481-2265
We would like you personally invite you to come back and play at Joyland casino despite the past matters.

We wish you the best of luck,
Thanking you,
Joyland Casino Customer Care

 

[Vesuvio]

All players we have managed to reach over the phone were pleased, satisfied and full of understanding.

I'll leave those involved to give the whole post the response it deserves, but the above was so absurd it made me laugh!

 

[jetset]

I have been in contact with Joyland, explaining to them that this *solution* does not cut it.

If players wagered in terms of their T&Cs when they had screwed up their comp calculations, then that is a casino fault and players should not be penalised by having their winnings confiscated, even if their deposits are being returned.

And invoking the notorious "we can do whatever we want" clause is a BIG mistake.

 

[BJesus]

Time for player action I think.

Total boycott on all Playtechs until they get involved Joyland need to at least start showing they are not thieves and reverse some decisions.

People who have won without comps from the sign up need paying otherwise the email is a lie and at last we have written proof.

Who are the happy players on the phone I certainly was not.

JETSET what will happen to them if they stand by these decisions?

And we need a seperate discussion on 25+ per hand Video Poker is it no risk?

 

[jetset]

Here are some of the options if these people do not come right:

1) The obvious one is to withhold your future business from them...and that's more effective if you email them and tell them your doing it and why and want your account closed. If enough players do that they will see the practical effect of their actions and that focuses the mind of casino operators wonderfully.

2) Spread the word about their play to protect other players who may not know about this behaviour.

3) Lodge complaints with Playtech through their disputes channel - again a significant number of complaints helps to reinforce the message that players are pissed about this.

4) Bryan will have already noted this and I anticipate he will lend his weight to these complaints. It may be an idea to submit them as PABs, too, perhaps noting that you have also complained to Playtech so Bryan knows where he is with this.

5) Depending on the jurisdiction, it sometimes pays to make their license hot with legit complaints to their licensing jurisdiction.

6) These guys are going into Casino Cautions this week as I see no signs of a fair resolution here so far.

 

[DrNo888]

I certainly have not been contacted by phone, email, or any other channels.

 

[Pinababy69]

Did I miss something? I did not even see a mention of the alteration of players logs/history?

 

[BJesus]

Thanks Jetset for the reply.

I will close all my Playtech Casino accounts tonight

I have never had reason to close a single casino account in the past.

 

[120sam]

I'm boycotting playtech already, and I'm not even involved in this, just horrified by it.

How's this for an idea - we all get spam from playtech casinos right? I keep getting stuff from Club Dice etc anyway. How about every time you get some playtech casino spam, you click on reply, copy a link to this thread, and click on send. If we all do it they'll get the message pretty quickly, and other playtech casinos will start putting pressure on playtech to sort out Joyland.

 

[juanage187]

Hi everyone,
I found this thread from a search on Google after having the same problems with Joyland Casino. I had some great luck and won a good amount of money playing blackjack, video poker, and slot machines. Now my account is locked and I've only received my original deposit back! I feel I am being treated horribly just because I was a winner. I just read the post by liatk speaking for Joyland, and he said they did this because of risk free bets! How is betting $50 a hand in blackjack and video poker risk-free? I am glad I found this site, and hopefully we can work together to help get everyone paid.

 

[ElDuderino]

To all Joyland Casino players ,

We reviewed the players who played at Joyland Casino and the Casino management decided to cut the winnings of players who were seen to be abusers of the system. These "abusers" were the people who saw the failure in the system and played non-risky games in order to accumulate as many comp points as possible. Joyland's fraud department then refunded the initial deposits of all those players and decided to call each one of them personally.

What a joke... I bet $100/spin video poker, which is the same that I have bet at other Playtechs BECAUSE I AM WILLING AND ABLE TO GAMBLE. Non-risky? I challenge you to deposit $1500 OF YOUR OWN MONEY at an online casino and bet $100/spin and tell me it's non-risky. Hmmmph.

All players that play at Joyland Casino have to agree with the terms and conditions prior to playing where it states that the Casino Management is able to make decisions such as this. If you wish to re-read these terms and conditions please see

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

I *DID* read the t and c, and I faithfully followed it.

If, by mistake, some players still have not been contacted via phone, be sure that you will be contacted - we will NOT forget you!
All players we have managed to reach over the phone were pleased, satisfied and full of understanding.

I have asked, repeated, to be contacted via e-mail so that I have a firm record of my correspondence with Joyland. You behavior in this matter leaves me no other choice than to have a paper trail of our correspondence.

There was no intention from the Joyland Casino to offend anyone, they simply intended to protect themselves against casino abusers.

There's that phrase again. Either your grammar is terrible, or you're deeming me a bonus abuser. Ha! I can only imagine how you treat ACTUAL abusers... do you cut their toes off?

I consider my treatment by Joyland in this matter a personal affront. I hope Bryan, after seeing all the facts, gets us paid OUR MONEY. If I don't get paid and/or I keep getting lied to and belittled by Joyland, I will never play at any Playtech casino again, and I will follow through on this solemn vow: I will cost Joyland as much business as I can through negative word of mouth, whereas up to now, I have done nothing but sing Playtech's praises. And that, my friend, is a promise.

 

[ElDuderino]

P.S. I just googled "joyland casino" and this thread was the first hit, under CASINOMEISTER CASINO COMPLAINTS.

Joyland is being very penny wise and pound foolish. It's not too late too admit you're wrong and rectify the situation.

 

[thelawnet]

To all Joyland Casino players ,

In response to the CasinoMeister forum posts, we trust the following explanation will clear up everybody's questions and confusion.

The main issue revolves around the fact that there was a mismatch in the way comp points were calculated.
We reviewed the players who played at Joyland Casino and the Casino management decided to cut the winnings of players who were seen to be abusers of the system. These "abusers" were the people who saw the failure in the system and played non-risky games in order to accumulate as many comp points as possible. Joyland's fraud department then refunded the initial deposits of all those players and decided to call each one of them personally.

This is untrue. It is a real shame that you are choosing to slander people who did nothing of the kind. Perhaps you need some lessons in statistics, but playing video poker at maximum (or indeed minimum) stakes, is anything but non-risky, and people stood the chance of losing money (and indeed I believe one poster in this thread lost all his deposit).

All players that play at Joyland Casino have to agree with the terms and conditions prior to playing where it states that the Casino Management is able to make decisions such as this. If you wish to re-read these terms and conditions please see

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

Perhaps as you are making the decision to steal players winnings, you should do more than simply say 'read this long document', and you could perhaps point to the sentence where you say 'we can steal your money if you win'.

If, by mistake, some players still have not been contacted via phone, be sure that you will be contacted - we will NOT forget you!
All players we have managed to reach over the phone were pleased, satisfied and full of understanding.

Ha ha ha ha.

Joyland - "Hello, This is Joyland casino. We're stealing your winnings. We know that you won 20,000 playing video poker and continued to play after that because of the high comp points, but we have decided that you were playing 'no-risk', so we are going to steal your money'

Player 'Oh wonderful Joyland, land of happiness, I can see where your casino gets its name. I am so pleased to hear this news, I have reached a new level of joy and understanding.'

Yeah right. What a lot of rubbish. If you

(a) refuse to correspond by email, but contact people by phone to avoid creating a paper trail
and
(b) confiscate everyone's winnings

who is happy about that?

Those of you who have not been contacted by Joyland support, or those who have further queries, please could you call the Joyland support again.
Toll Free US/Canada: 1-866-516-0607 and International: 1-268-481-2265

Perhaps you could reply to people's emails as well?

We would like you personally invite you to come back and play at Joyland casino despite the past matters.

Yeah great idea.

Player deposits 500. Player hits Royal Flush

Player cashes out. 'Dear Player, due to a pattern of bonus abuse, blah blah blah, we are stealing your money.'