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Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by Josyck, Aug 11, 2005.

    Aug 11, 2005
  1. Josyck

    Josyck Dormant account

    Occupation:
    STUDENT
    Location:
    SPAIN
    The problem is that Joyland Casino has changed my transaction history and he has deleted my withdrawal request of 4529 and substituted it for another of only 500 euros (my original deposit), this is the amount that I have received into my neteller account, only 500 of my 4529 withdrawal requested.

    I have been talking with the casino's support but they have not tell me anything.

    What do you recomend to do?.


    Thanks,
    Josyck
     
  2. Aug 11, 2005
  3. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Fishing :)
    Location:
    USA
    "What do you recomend to do?."

    For one thing give us more details. Did you play with a bonus?
     
  4. Aug 11, 2005
  5. Josyck

    Josyck Dormant account

    Occupation:
    STUDENT
    Location:
    SPAIN
    I made a 500 deposit and I received a bonus of 808, then I played with that bonus much more than the wagering requirements and I made my withdrawal of about 2500. The following day I decided continue playing with the money and I reversed my 2500 withdrawal and I won more, I made a final withdrawal of 4500. Some days later they returned my deposit and my winnings disappeared in the cashier showing only a 500 withdrawal and not the 4500!!!. I have tried to contact them but they don't give any answer why my winnings disappear, that is why I ask here for help.

    Thank you.
     
  6. Aug 12, 2005
  7. schankwart

    schankwart Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.ca

    Occupation:
    Secret Agent
    Location:
    Colony Gamma
    Have these fellows ever sent a manager (representative) of their Casino over here?

    Josyck's story so far sounds very ugly and an explanation of the Casino is more than neccessary. I would suggest you to wait for a couple days or so and then file a complaint with Playtech's dispute service, if nothing happens.
     
  8. Aug 12, 2005
  9. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    I notice Bryan mentions at least one complaint from Joyland in his current newsletter: http://www.casinomeister.com/newsletter.html (you need to scroll down a bit)

    On the face of it your case looks like simple theft, but there's not much we can say without knowing the full story and the casino's justification, if they have one. You could try "pitching a bitch" (if you haven't already), but Casinomeister's going on holiday so it'll take a while to get a response.

    I've never seen this casino mentioned before & I don't think it's on any blacklists. Is it new and/or a member of a better known group of casinos?
     
  10. Aug 12, 2005
  11. The Gunslinger

    The Gunslinger Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Information Security
    Location:
    Mid-World
    Joyland

    Information about Joyland's affiliation can be found locally here:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9061&highlight=Joyland

    I've always assumed that Joyland was under the same ownership and/or managment as Carnival, New York etc. Although this is never specifically disclosed by the casinos, neither is the well documented ties between other members of the group (i.e. New York and Carnival.)

    Joyland so far as I know is a brand new casino (although I could be wrong.)

    If I understand the complaint correctly the management of Joyland casino modified the transactions records. Regardless if they claim the bonus as a contributing factor in the non-payment of the withdrawal (which may not be especially atypical for casinos) it still doesn't explain the modification of the transaction history.

    However in this case it may be easy to prove that the history was modified (if they claim it was not) by the withdrawal receipts sent to the account holder via email. If they do not claim the transaction history was modified, that leaves them with the obvious first step of explaining why it was nessisary to do this, as I have never had this happen to me at a Playtech casino (nor any other casino for that matter, sans perhaps independent software/rouge casinos.) Refunding a deposit is one thing, restructuring someone transaction history to reflect differently than what actually happened is quite another.

    Joyland obviously is among the affiliates listed at You must register/login in order to see the link.. If they are infact under the same management/ownership as Carnival, New York and the other mentioned casinos in the above link, it's curious why they would attempt such shady behavior as Carnival, New York etc. don't have a prevailing reputation for this type of behavior. I don't understand why they would allow their group's reputation to be damaged by what is obviously fradulent behavior on the part of one of their affiliated casinos.

    The Gunslinger
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2005
  12. Aug 12, 2005
  13. TeddyFSB

    TeddyFSB Dormant account

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Reading this thread, I wanted to mention that I signed up at the casino last week. I lost my initial deposit and the bonus, and then deposited again. I played a bit with the new deposit, cashed out about the same amount and received the money today. So it seems that when you play without the bonus, they pay. Not that it makes their alleged behavior any less outrageous.
     
  14. Aug 12, 2005
  15. Aindreas_Daoc

    Aindreas_Daoc Dormant account

    Location:
    USA
    I have a problem that is very similar to this one with them. I'm trying to work it out directly with them first before bothering Bryan, who is on vacation anyway. I'll post here if my communications with them reach an impasse.

    Also, I followed that link to the newsletter, and there appears to be 3 PABs for Joyland already. Just an observation.

    Finally, the Playtech "Player Inquiries" link (where we are supposed to contact Playtech about problems) is apparently down.
     
  16. Aug 12, 2005
  17. Johnny Empire

    Johnny Empire Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Accounting
    Location:
    Yorba Linda, Home of Nixon
    I have had the same problem with Joyland with my initial deposit made on 8/4. They adjusted my withdraw request of about $1500 down to $500, my deposit amount.
     
  18. Aug 12, 2005
  19. The Gunslinger

    The Gunslinger Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Information Security
    Location:
    Mid-World
    Have you yet taken action?

    Curiously, is your PAB one of the three listed in the newsletter?

    Have they responded at all to attempts to contact them.

    This kind of action is very disturbing :eek:

    The Gunslinger
     
  20. Aug 12, 2005
  21. casinomike

    casinomike Dormant account

    Occupation:
    casino whore
    Location:
    TX
    hello,
    I am having similar problems with Joyland. I signed up to their casino on the 4th of August and deposited $500 and did receive an $808 signup bonus. I played some video poker (allowed by their terms) and had a very good run, then played blackjack (also allowed) and had some more very good luck. I made some cashouts that night just over ten thousand USD. I also played well over their required wagering for the bonus, and it was removed from my account on cashout.

    much to my suprise they simply refunded my $500 deposit, and locked out my account. I have not been able to login to the casino since 8/5, and have received minimal support. Their email reply said I would be contacted as soon as possible (I have not yet been phoned). I have made attempts to call their support but could not reach anyone. Now I am reading about people having problems with this casino as well ? how should I proceed?
     
  22. Aug 12, 2005
  23. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    These are the forum members who have PABd about Joyland:
    sookie
    Josyck
    rufim901

    The response time is very slow, and Playtech's "player inquiries" form is down, which really pisses me off. I've requested Playtech to get this back up as soon as possible.
     
  24. Aug 12, 2005
  25. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Joyland was launched in early 2003. At the time it was independent (license Joyland Gaming Inc. but the license closed in March 2004) and you could choose to view it as either a Korean language or English site.

    Crown Solutions Gaming Limited is the new casino license name for Club Dice from January last year.

    The Club Dice group have had problems before. I remember one person claimed they stole thousands from his account but the casino claimed he played the money out. I also had a lot of problems with them.

    Club Dice was the first Playtech Licensee. Although now called Crown Solutions Gaming, the company and license name used to be Celebrity Clubs GY Ltd / Club Dice Casino Ltd and the company address was from Nicosia, Cyprus (I've noticed a lot of casino companies from there and this includes the infamous CasinoBar).
     
  26. Aug 12, 2005
  27. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I think you can assume Club Dice has strong ownership links to Playtech as it was their first licensee and Playtech was based in Nicosia, Cyprus too.
     
  28. Aug 12, 2005
  29. Josyck

    Josyck Dormant account

    Occupation:
    STUDENT
    Location:
    SPAIN
    Joyland called me yesterday. They told me that there was a software error that gave me more comp points than usual and therefore all my winnings were void and my deposit returned because I had played risk free. What?????.
    This is not true. I did not play risk free! I played with my money and the bonus I received for signing-up. I am lucky and I win, then I cash my comps and I withdraw. The next day I reverse the withdrawal and I continue playing with that money and win more and withdraw again, and now they invent this story to not pay me my winnings.

    This is absolutely incredible!
     
  30. Aug 12, 2005
  31. Johnny Empire

    Johnny Empire Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Accounting
    Location:
    Yorba Linda, Home of Nixon
    I haven't PAB yet because Bryan is on vacation. Playtech has been down.

    I did contact the casino CS. They said there was a bug in their system, and so they were voiding all wins for that day. Deposits were being returned instead.

    Somehow I don't think deposits were returned for people who busted out though.
     
  32. Aug 12, 2005
  33. hofdaddy

    hofdaddy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PM
    Location:
    Cleveland
    I am in the same boat as the rest of you. The first time I talked to CS they accused me of being dishonest. The whole system was like this for a week before they caught it. I ran up $6200 there and even ran up a $2000 session under their "new" rules and they still declined my withdrawls. I got my original deposit back of $500 but they are claiming that my winnings were all comp points which is entirely untrue.

    I sent an email to the manager yesterday and was immediately called by a CSR. We talked for about 30 mins and I explained what was going on and she called me back about 10 mins ago. She said that it was "managements decision" to not give me the $2000 that I won under the "new" rules but also not give me anything but my deposit. So basically I played about 12 hours of BJ and JoB for nothing.
     
  34. Aug 12, 2005
  35. andrew26

    andrew26 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Self employed
    Location:
    Alabama
    I am in the same boat. I won $356.75 playing by the rules the casino set up. I requested a withdrawal and even provided the documents they requested to validate the withdrawal.

    When my withdrawal hit Neteller, it was $356.75 less than what they had confirmed earlier.

    This, to me, is the worst kind of sleazy trick a casino can pull and makes me think twice about the whole concept.
     
  36. Aug 12, 2005
  37. schankwart

    schankwart Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.ca

    Occupation:
    Secret Agent
    Location:
    Colony Gamma
    Josyck, this is one of the top three most disgusting excuses for non-payment that I have heard from any Online Casino EVER, and believe me, I have heard quite some. :p
    Joyland seems to attempt a mass rip-off at the moment. I can not imagine what they are up to but this scam needs to be shut down immediately and all players paid.
    Phew.
     
  38. Aug 12, 2005
  39. JohnGalt

    JohnGalt Dormant account

    Location:
    iugljk
    To shed some light on the situation, they did indeed have an obvious mistake in their comp point system, which apparently (according to hofdaddy) lasted for an entire week (I knew of the mistake but not the time period).

    This mistake was, they were giving 4 comp points for every 1$ wagered, and they converted comp points to $ at the rate of 100 comp points for every $1. Obviously this is a 4% rebate, which is obviously a mistake, and it must have been especially obvious to the people complaining here.

    Also, this happened during a transition in their comp points system. Before the mistake it was 4 points/$1 wagered, 4000 points to $1 cash, afterwards it was 1 point/$10 wagered, 100 points to convert to $1 cash. So you can see, they made a mistake (a really, really stupid mistake) in the transition.

    This is open to debate, but in my mind they are within their rights to retroactively change the comp points to what they should have been, since this was an obvious error people were taking advantage of. However, voiding actual winnings and altering transaction histories is 100% unacceptable.

    I think everyone here should put out in the open how much of their winnings was from gambling and how much was from comp points. I mean I understand there's another factor here of people getting lots of comp points and then using them to run up a huge balance where otherwise maybe they would have busted, so I guess any winnings generated purely with converted comp points could be taken back as well.

    But when it's part converted comps and part their cash, I'd say the winnings have to be honored, and if someone just deposited, got the bonus, won money, converted their comps, then cashed out (which I feel is the majority situation here) then the winnings should be honored, minus the extra comps.
     

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