issuing a challenge to 32red/mg

[Alexishot69]

to 32red ..ok lets be honest here we see thread after thread people lik e myself complaining about the seriously bad payout % at MG casinos...now tonight yet again i deposit and lose..over 700 spins hit 1 bonus round for 2.50 a complete and utter joke ..i dare Pat or someone from 32red to come on here and defend MG casinos....my question to MG rep is this ............WHY THE DISGRACEFUL PAYOUT %? YOU are more than welcome to talk about my account pat or whoever i give you my express permission...hundreds and hundreds of s inc bonuses have gone through this with 0 profit which i can assure you is NOT a fair game...tonight without gambling wins my latest deposit would have gone in 30 mins .....for casinomeister this one and yeah youy may ban me but..WHY apart from the fact they have goodcs is 32red/mg not investigated for dodg7y software??..we have several people on here complaiing thqat the MG is as tight as its ever been so why not on the not recommended list?? if this was an RTG it would have been there weeks ago...sorry but theres something way way wrong there..i await pats or mgsresponse ..no doubt ill get the ahhh butyou got 80+% yet it took me just over 2 hours to lose the ;latest dep...cmon MG over to you...

 

[hippo925]

i don't know if this will be helpful, but i know other people have mentioned this in the past. On MG software, you can "park" your bonuses and play them at a later time.

My technique was to pick 18 games (it doesn't matter which ones... trust me).... they get saved into your "favorites" screen. Then i would systematically play 50 spins on every game until i hit a bonus. Once i hit a bonus, i move on to the next game unil i have all 18 bonuses or i run out of money.

I then went to play all the bonuses.... i've done this hundreds of times.

Without saying anything else, i believe you can get some really interesting insight into how the mg software plays and it might not be what you think in terms of how the return % is processed.

 

[KasinoKing]

...now tonight yet again i deposit and lose..over 700 spins hit 1 bonus round for 2.50 a complete and utter joke ..

Can you tell us which slot(s) you were playing please?
Also, to put it into perspective, what was your bet when you won the 2.50?

Thanks,
KK

 

[RobWin]

i don't know if this will be helpful, but i know other people have mentioned this in the past. On MG software, you can "park" your bonuses and play them at a later time.

My technique was to pick 18 games (it doesn't matter which ones... trust me).... they get saved into your "favorites" screen. Then i would systematically play 50 spins on every game until i hit a bonus. Once i hit a bonus, i move on to the next game unil i have all 18 bonuses or i run out of money.

I then went to play all the bonuses.... i've done this hundreds of times.

Without saying anything else, i believe you can get some really interesting insight into how the mg software plays and it might not be what you think in terms of how the return % is processed.

Your plan there hippo sounds just like the same one New Orleans used at the RTG casinos he was playing at...now that I have heard this from two different players on here it is starting to sound like an easy way to achieve the bonus playthru or at least zero out and then go back and play without any restrictions on the bonus money you have just banked !!

I've also never seen anything in the T & C's that says anything at all denouncing this type of play strategy...

 

[hippo925]

Your plan there hippo sounds just like the same one New Orleans used at the RTG casinos he was playing at...now that I have heard this from two different players on here it is starting to sound like an easy way to achieve the bonus playthru or at least zero out and then go back and play without any restrictions on the bonus money you have just banked !!

I've also never seen anything in the T & C's that says anything at all denouncing this type of play strategy...

Actually, the MG bonus system keeps track of the wr on your bonus if you have a "pending" payout from a bonus that you have "parked" even if you have a zero balance (raise any brows?). As soon as you play your bonuses, the wr is updated. The only reason i played this way was that i just like to relax and play while my wife sometimes got a kick out of being able to play "just" bonuses without having to wait for them, lol.

 

[RobWin]

Actually, the MG bonus system keeps track of the wr on your bonus if you have a "pending" payout from a bonus that you have "parked" even if you have a zero balance (raise any brows?). As soon as you play your bonuses, the wr is updated. The only reason i played this way was that i just like to relax and play while my wife sometimes got a kick out of being able to play "just" bonuses without having to wait for them, lol.

Oh yea, I realize that but what I was referring too was the fact that once you hit a bonus round or a feature round on one of the games then just exit that game before you play the bonus or feature round and finish out your normal bonus requirements on the coupon you are currently using or zero out one...whichever one comes first and then log back on and play out the feature rounds or bonus rounds on the games that you previously parked !!

 

[Pinababy69]

The only reason i played this way was that i just like to relax and play while my wife sometimes got a kick out of being able to play "just" bonuses without having to wait for them, lol.

The instant gratification type then Hippo?

 

[hippo925]

Oh yea, I realize that but what I was referring too was the fact that once you hit a bonus round or a feature round on one of the games then just exit that game before you play the bonus or feature round and finish out your normal bonus requirements on the coupon you are currently using or zero out one...whichever one comes first and then log back on and play out the feature rounds or bonus rounds on the games that you previously parked !!

Just to clarify, if i had $100 and $20 of it was still a bonus: if i parked a bonus on cashipillar and ended up with $0. I could log out or whatever, but once i played the bonus and won, for example, $200, there will still be $20 in my bonus balance, and $180 in my cash balane. hope that clarifies. the mg system will only end your bonus coupon when you have a zero balance and NO parked games.

The only reason i brought this up was the interesting things i saw when i did this. I thought it might lend some insight in the OP's frustration in the return %'s at MG casinos.

 

[Alexishot69]

for kk

tonight i played "break da bank" and ladies nite ...the think kk is tonight on BDB i hit 1 bonus round as i said over 700 spins and hit 2.50 and that was for 18p as far as im concrned preety s**t

 

[RobWin]

Just to clarify, if i had $100 and $20 of it was still a bonus: if i parked a bonus on cashipillar and ended up with $0. I could log out or whatever, but once i played the bonus and won, for example, $200, there will still be $20 in my bonus balance, and $180 in my cash balane. hope that clarifies. the mg system will only end your bonus coupon when you have a zero balance and NO parked games.

The only reason i brought this up was the interesting things i saw when i did this. I thought it might lend some insight in the OP's frustration in the return %'s at MG casinos.

Yes, you would need to have a Zero balance on your "Bonus Balance" for this to work before you played the parked games but the "Cash Balance" would not matter...think I will go and check this out latter tonite or tomorrow and try this and let you know what I find out !!

 

[Pinababy69]

Alex, you gotta leave that Break Da Bank alone. That game is a killer. I think I've played it three times, and don't know why I went back after the first time. It is extremely high variance, and in my own very limited experience with it, going hundreds upon hundreds of spins with nothing back is not unusual.

Ladies Nite is another one, that for me personally, has always sucked. I've played Thunderstruck my last two sessions at 32Red, and have had extremely good playtime on it, like two hours or more on a $20 deposit. And that's playing 18c and 27c bets. That's the first time I've gone near that game in months. I've been playing alot of No Worries lately, and have done well on that one too. You can go 300 or 400 spins with nothing. But you can also hit huge on very small bets ie. again 18 or 27 cents.

You probably do the same thing I do, and that is get stuck in one game, figuring it HAS to hit eventually, lol. Nope...it doesn't. I've gotten a bit better in that I'll switch around more now, and if I do get ahead on a game, I'll move on to something else.

I know there have been many complaints of late re: MG payouts, but I have been playing at 32Red for about four years now...the last two exclusively for MG, and I honest to God don't notice any difference. I've had some horrid sessions of late, but I've always had those. I've also had some very good playtime on very small deposits. That's just me, not trying to discount your experience, just sharing my own.

 

[Alexishot69]

pina

baby i hear ya totally...and ur right i play bdb hoping it MUST hit..but hey the way i look at it is this way ok..here in the uk we have pub machines which play for 30p a spin and jackpot is 35 ok...now ok 18p is just over 1/2 that but if you were standing in a pub slotting 100s and hitting zero you would have an issue with the machine however most payout at least 35 every few 100 spins..and thats o a 72%+ payout..now to go 1000s of spins and hit a max 6 is and im sorry but a hmmmm i dare say it "unusual" % payout..and pina i do believe ya but lets face it when you deposit 100s and get 0 in return not one winning session then you auto and i think rightly think something is a just not right ....ive also played mg for years pina and id bet my life on it that these slots are as tight now as they have ever been...

 

[Jufo]

Just to clarify, if i had $100 and $20 of it was still a bonus: if i parked a bonus on cashipillar and ended up with $0. I could log out or whatever, but once i played the bonus and won, for example, $200, there will still be $20 in my bonus balance, and $180 in my cash balane. hope that clarifies. the mg system will only end your bonus coupon when you have a zero balance and NO parked games.

The only reason i brought this up was the interesting things i saw when i did this. I thought it might lend some insight in the OP's frustration in the return %'s at MG casinos.

This is very interesting. I once did an experiment at MG casino using this strategy. I "parked" my balance on bonus features, but exited the game without playing those features. I only returned to play the features after I had zeroed my balance. What happened was interesting: Out of the five or so features I played, I received almost nothing from any of them, for example picking "Stop" symbol as the first pick in all pick'em bonuses. That seemed bizarre considering that the outcomes should be random. Maybe this is what you are referring to Hippo925?

 

[vinylweatherman]

i don't know if this will be helpful, but i know other people have mentioned this in the past. On MG software, you can "park" your bonuses and play them at a later time.

My technique was to pick 18 games (it doesn't matter which ones... trust me).... they get saved into your "favorites" screen. Then i would systematically play 50 spins on every game until i hit a bonus. Once i hit a bonus, i move on to the next game unil i have all 18 bonuses or i run out of money.

I then went to play all the bonuses.... i've done this hundreds of times.

Without saying anything else, i believe you can get some really interesting insight into how the mg software plays and it might not be what you think in terms of how the return % is processed.

MG fixed that one shortly after the release of EZBonus - it won't work, EZBonus takes it into account. It worked for a short while after EZBonus was introduced, but try it now, made a new deposit, and EZBonus "remembers", so you missed the boat, sad to say.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This is very interesting. I once did an experiment at MG casino using this strategy. I "parked" my balance on bonus features, but exited the game without playing those features. I only returned to play the features after I had zeroed my balance. What happened was interesting: Out of the five or so features I played, I received almost nothing from any of them, for example picking "Stop" symbol as the first pick in all pick'em bonuses. That seemed bizarre considering that the outcomes should be random. Maybe this is what you are referring to Hippo925?

Yes, this is one of those "experiments" that exposes some of the "sham" behind the MG software. If the results were determined from when you went back in and THEN played the bonuses, this kind of thing would not happen. The results have been already pre-determined, this was shown BEFORE they fixed this exploit, and the bug in the "bonus bubble". The "bonus bubble" bug showed that the software had ALREADY caclulated your overall win BEFORE you even made your first selection. It also revealed the "short cut" in the VP Double feature, where the card YOU get to "choose" has already been picked for you, and the result determined. Whatever card YOU choose, you will always get the predetermined one shown, win or lose, and the other cards shown you could NEVER have selected.

One of the other experiments is progressive betting on the slots, once the scatters start appearing more frequently, you can put your bet up a little. If this happens after one of the LONG spells between bonus rounds, you can INCREASE the bets after each bonus round in the hope you have caught the cluster, often, the cluster includes at least one retriggering bonus round. Predicting the end of the cluster is hit & miss, because once you have had a long enough gap to show you the cluster is over, it is too late.

But, Goddammit!!! MG fixed this too

THIS is what has changed with Munchkins, these clusters no longer follow a cycle, the bonus rounds are more RANDOM, and somehow this does NOT affect the overall RTP (I'm not so sure).

There are probably a few more of these "gut feeling" patterns that have been fixed, and this is why we keep saying "the games are playing differently since..........."

I expect players were taking advantage of spotting the lead-in to the clusters, and this was better exploited on the lower variance slots, such as Munchkins, and yes, guilty as charged (Remember Munchkin Meister, when I caught the cycle SPOT ON, and hit the big re-triggering one with 67.50 a spin - I was lucky, they could never be predicted down to that level, and sometimes there would be a "skip", the buildup of scatters appearing, but no cluster, and you bust trying.

They also had a mess around with Mega Moolah, decreasing considerably the per $ probability of triggering the bonus wheel. We were fed a line about "fewer player are playing, so you don't see so many 'another player won' messages' ". This was disingenious, since fewer players would mean fewer "another player" messages AND LESS INPUT TO THE POOLS! - the two would balance, and the jackpots would have fallen less frequently, BUT FOR STASTISTICALLY SIMILAR AMOUNTS.

To be honest, I LIKED the chance to Mega Moolah, since it gave a point to the Minor and Mini, but MG felt they had to sweep it under the carpet, and put things back the way they were. I would prefer them to go back to 3 and 4 figure Minis, and just be up front about it, have it launched properly as a desirable change, perhaps along with the "my slot" idea.

My belief is that the RNG itself is indeed random, as MG claim, and note this is HOW THEY WORD IT, the GAMES though, have an "engine" that converts a stream of random numbers into a sequence of game results. To add some spice and excitement, I have suspected there is some kind of weighting envelope that is used to give periods of enhanced payouts, coupled with periods of "suck", just like Fruit Machines. This is what keeps players playing Fruit Machines, so why would this not work online too.

When MG make these cock-ups, these things get revealed, never fully, but we get to see something a little "odd".

Does anyone remember 2006, Summer into Autumn. MiniVegas ended up cooling their heels in the rogue pit for a short while because they were confiscating winnings left, tight , and centre. They then offered the most PECULIAR defense to the forum, and this was that SOME players (not the multiple account fraudsters, who were fairly and squarely BUSTED), had their winnings confiscated for what was "illegitimate play, which was neither fraud, or bonus abuse". This would have been pretty hard to prove, given that quite a number of players had NOT taken a bonus, and had played only on SLOTS!

So, here we have RANDOM slots, supposedly "illegitimately played" to the extent that players had WINNINGS CONFISCATED.

WTF happend - WTF knows (except Microgaming of course, and they just won't say for "security reasons").

Whatever happend, MG updated something, and made a "clusterf***" of it - and operators were left to clean up the mess.

So, in short, MG CAN CHANGE the parameters of EXISTING games, this doesn't mean the have, or they will, but it DID happen to Mega Moolah, and it was noticed by so many that I can say "IT HAPPENED", and MG said nothing. If something has been changed and we DON'T notice, well OF COURSE; MGS WILL KEEP QUIET.

So, I will add Alexis' challenge,

MGS - WTF HAPPENED with this "illegitimate play" fiasco in 2006 - stories of mass confiscations do not go down well, especially when all we get are vague explanations, and ones which have NOTHING to do with "bonus abuse".

MGS - Are older 5 Reel slots WEIGHTED, meaning the patterns are FOR REAL, and not just me imagining that the reels keep on landing on some positions more often that the others - slots like 5 Reel Drive, Carnaval etc.

What about the newer ones, weighted or not.

 

[hippo925]

This is very interesting. I once did an experiment at MG casino using this strategy. I "parked" my balance on bonus features, but exited the game without playing those features. I only returned to play the features after I had zeroed my balance. What happened was interesting: Out of the five or so features I played, I received almost nothing from any of them, for example picking "Stop" symbol as the first pick in all pick'em bonuses. That seemed bizarre considering that the outcomes should be random. Maybe this is what you are referring to Hippo925?

Darn, vinyl posted while i was writing this and his explanations and theories are always better worded i'm posting anyway, lol.

Without going into too much detail, the impression i got was that it didn't matter which games you played. I always picked 18 games (max number of games you can have in your "favorites" section) and the result was that your session will either be fair (in the sense that you get a fair payback) or that your session will be poor. Either way, it didn't matter which games you picked.

After a while, i was able to predict how well my 15-18 bonuses would pay depending on how the first few went. The variance on the games did not matter. break the bank again and cashapillar could give a bonus every 50 spins, but munchkins and ho ho ho would take over 300 spins each to get the bonus... or vice versa.

Also, each session would generally have 3 or 4 games that gave a decent bonus but it seemed it was dependent on the order in which i played the bonuses. For example, if i played the "low" variance bonuses first and did well, cashapillar, avalon, mad hatters, etc. always paid squat. If the high variance games did well, all the others would be small.

My best bonuses on games like munchkins, jungle jim, and cabin fever happened when all my other bonuses paid poorly. Also, it didn't matter how many bonuses out of the 18 i would get. i could get all 18 or just 6 out of 18 and the payback would be about 60-80% of what i lost depending on streak.

A winning streak will see most of the bonuses paying well and increasing your balance up to 150%, but it is ALWAYS followed by a down streak more along the lines of the 60-80% i described earlier.

i've played avalon before and went 1000 spins without a bonus, i've also gone nearly 1000 spins without a bonus playing the "parking" method (that means going 50 spins without a bonus in 10 different games straight). This game me the impression that it really didn't matter what game i was playing and that it depended more on the "streak" i was going to have...

In other words, i truly believe that the mg slots pay back a certain %, i'm just not sure they do it the way everyone thinks they do it.

one thing to keep in mind.... if a really bad session is explained by "it takes millions of spins to reach the theoretical payout", then how is it that a really good streak only takes one or two sessions to balance out? Just a thought.

oh, and ps... after mad hatterrs was "upgraded," no one can convince me that it didn't play way different for the worse!

 

[Jufo]

Yes, this is one of those "experiments" that exposes some of the "sham" behind the MG software. If the results were determined from when you went back in and THEN played the bonuses, this kind of thing would not happen. The results have been already pre-determined, this was shown BEFORE they fixed this exploit, and the bug in the "bonus bubble".

I didn't really get the answer I was looking for yet. Forget about the playing with bonus aspect. If I play without a bonus and trigger a bunch of features on different slots (those slots that are supposed to be random) and I play those features later, will the bonus rounds give statistically random outcomes? If they don't isn't that a very serious issue of cheating?

Path has responded questions about randomness in the other thread. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about this.

Also, each session would generally have 3 or 4 games that gave a decent bonus but it seemed it was dependent on the order in which i played the bonuses. For example, if i played the "low" variance bonuses first and did well, cashapillar, avalon, mad hatters, etc. always paid squat. If the high variance games did well, all the others would be small.

If this is true then it indicates that the outcomes are not random. Past "luck" should not affect future luck because random events don't have memory.

 

[Jasminebed]

Overall payout

MG slots only publish an overall payout, just as the land-based casinos I play at do.

And players often forget all the "little" wins that make up part of the payback percentage, since we play them back.

Let's say I get theoretical payback on a slot of 95%

I put in $100

I play 50 spins at $2, I win $95 dollars...It does not take long to play fifty spins

I play $95 dollars, I win $90.25

I play $90.25, I win $83.75

I think we can all see where this is headed.

I depost $100, play for a while and zero out. My payback percentage is 95%, but my return is ZERO.

But without evidence to back it up, I do believe that some slots have their payback percentage changed without telling players. I really liked Hitman,and played a lot of it, and I am certain it has changed.

And from what I know of how land based audits are based, it assumes that all games ARE PLAYED EQUALLY. This is not true given players' likes/dislikes, so you can up the payout on a dog hoping more people play, or that it adjusts your overall payback percentage, and lower the payout on a popular game figuring you will keep your customer base anyway.

 

[hippo925]

If this is true then it indicates that the outcomes are not random. Past "luck" should not affect future luck because random events don't have memory.

this is of course speculation on my part through some pretty extensive experience, but i believe kimms summed up this idea with his discussion on how he would lose quite a bit on his regular games, then KNEW that he could consistently get a "big" win by lowering his bet and switching to any other game. It was apparently as if the software did have a memory in order to balance out the payout %.

Payback still 95%? yes. Random? Depends on your definition. Cheating software? Depends on your definition.

Again, the big question should be why it would take millions of spins to realize the payout % when you have bad streaks, but it only takes a few hundred when you get a good streak.

 

[patrina]

i don't know if this will be helpful, but i know other people have mentioned this in the past. On MG software, you can "park" your bonuses and play them at a later time.

My technique was to pick 18 games (it doesn't matter which ones... trust me).... they get saved into your "favorites" screen. Then i would systematically play 50 spins on every game until i hit a bonus. Once i hit a bonus, i move on to the next game unil i have all 18 bonuses or i run out of money.

I then went to play all the bonuses.... i've done this hundreds of times.

Without saying anything else, i believe you can get some really interesting insight into how the mg software plays and it might not be what you think in terms of how the return % is processed.

This is interesting..but is it really allowed? I know I have logged on once or twice to find a bonus game waiting for me and I didn't even realize I had hit it. Probably happened when I left a game too quickly or something. Anyway, I usually get too excited to be able to leave a bonus round till later, that or I am so damn low I dont have a choice
Patrina

 

[patrina]

to 32red ..ok lets be honest here we see thread after thread people lik e myself complaining about the seriously bad payout % at MG casinos...now tonight yet again i deposit and lose..over 700 spins hit 1 bonus round for 2.50 a complete and utter joke ..i dare Pat or someone from 32red to come on here and defend MG casinos....my question to MG rep is this ............WHY THE DISGRACEFUL PAYOUT %? YOU are more than welcome to talk about my account pat or whoever i give you my express permission...hundreds and hundreds of s inc bonuses have gone through this with 0 profit which i can assure you is NOT a fair game...tonight without gambling wins my latest deposit would have gone in 30 mins .....for casinomeister this one and yeah youy may ban me but..WHY apart from the fact they have goodcs is 32red/mg not investigated for dodg7y software??..we have several people on here complaiing thqat the MG is as tight as its ever been so why not on the not recommended list?? if this was an RTG it would have been there weeks ago...sorry but theres something way way wrong there..i await pats or mgsresponse ..no doubt ill get the ahhh butyou got 80+% yet it took me just over 2 hours to lose the ;latest dep...cmon MG over to you...

Hey Alexis, It's funny as I was thinking the other day about starting thread and asking about players, and their payout percentages etc. to try and find which casinos really do pay out the highest percentage. I have to say, I am pretty much done with MG. Like you, my situation is very similiar, but I have to be honest about one thing. I did play at Dash, the free spins promo? And did do pretty good with it, played for 2 days but couldn't get over $200. The second day I pretty much stayed at that amount, going from $100 - $200 and then should of cashed out cause once I didn't I just went down and lost it all. I too, feel as if I should of won something half decent with the amount of deposits I have played. I asked a little while ago if the payouts had changed? It's not the same as before when I used to win all the time. And get to play for a long time on my deposit. Does anyone know? Have the payouts changed?
Patrina

 

[aka23]

to 32red ..ok lets be honest here we see thread after thread people lik e myself complaining about the seriously bad payout % at MG casinos...now tonight yet again i deposit and lose..over 700 spins hit 1 bonus round for 2.50 a complete and utter joke ..i dare Pat or someone from 32red to come on here and defend MG casinos....my question to MG rep is this ............WHY THE DISGRACEFUL PAYOUT %?
...

That's the nature of slots. A good portion of the overall payout % is often in the rare, big wins. Your payout is expected to be low and well below the listed payout, unless you get one of the rare, big wins. And if you one of the huge wins much earlier than one would expect based on your # of spins, then your payout will be far above the listed payout. The chance of this huge payout and being far above the listed payout is an important part of what makes the game interesting.

If you want to achieve a result closer to the listed payout, then I'd recommend choosing a different game... one without big wins. Blackjack (without a side bet), baccarat, and craps are good examples.

 

[path]

Morning Alexishot,

I'll certainly take care of the 32Red side of things; if you can give me a little while to get the necessary information together then I'll pop it through to you via email.
I 'll leave the decision with you as to using any of the personal account information, that I send through, in the public domain.

Cheers for now
Pat

to 32red ..i dare Pat or someone from 32red to come on here and defend MG casinos....my question to MG rep is this ............WHY THE DISGRACEFUL PAYOUT %? YOU are more than welcome to talk about my account pat or whoever i give you my express permission...hundreds and hundreds of s inc bonuses have gone through this with 0 profit which i can assure you is NOT a fair game...tonight without gambling wins my latest deposit would have gone in 30 mins .....for casinomeister this one and yeah youy may ban me but..WHY apart from the fact they have goodcs is 32red/mg not investigated for dodg7y software??.....

 

[Alexishot69]

That's the nature of slots. A good portion of the overall payout % is often in the rare, big wins. Your payout is expected to be low and well below the listed payout, unless you get one of the rare, big wins. And if you one of the huge wins much earlier than one would expect based on your # of spins, then your payout will be far above the listed payout. The chance of this huge payout and being far above the listed payout is an important part of what makes the game interesting.

If you want to achieve a result closer to the listed payout, then I'd recommend choosing a different game... one without big wins. Blackjack (without a side bet), baccarat, and craps are good examples.

aka it aint about hitting that huge win and for me it never has been...as for blackjack etc ive absolutely no interest in it what i want is to deposit cash and have an few hours entertainment but atm its take take take and ive said this on another thread and it seems im not the only one that sees this pattern ..something has changed at MGs and everyone can see it..

 

[path]

Hello again,

Just to let you know that the session details have been sent over to Alexishot, for perusal.

In general terms, what I would say, is that operating any software that isnt fair and reliable is simply not an option for 32Red. We are a Public Company and, as a result, have legal and fiscal responsibilities both to our Shareholders and the Stock Exchange with these responsibilities being regularly audited and reviewed. Indeed, at the time of going public we were subject to a whole swathe of due diligence being completed and as you would imagine a lot of this dealt with the gaming software that we operated. In addition to this, we operate in a highly regulated environment and our Regulator (Gibraltar Regulatory Authority) stipulates (via a condition of our Remote Gambling Licence) that we provide games that are fair by ensuring that our gaming software is certified and tested regularly.

I can assure you that nothing has changed with the Microgaming Software that has been deliberatly done to facilitate a lower payout percentage. We simply could not allow this to be the case, for the reasons mentioned above. It is impossible for us to put the detailed technical information into the public domain as ultimately this would lose MG any competitive advantage in much the same way that Coca Cola and KFC never give out their secret recipes for the same reason!!!

I am now off to enjoy the rest of my day off :

Cheers
Pat

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hello again,

Just to let you know that the session details have been sent over to Alexishot, for perusal.

In general terms, what I would say, is that operating any software that isnt fair and reliable is simply not an option for 32Red. We are a Public Company and, as a result, have legal and fiscal responsibilities both to our Shareholders and the Stock Exchange with these responsibilities being regularly audited and reviewed. Indeed, at the time of going public we were subject to a whole swathe of due diligence being completed and as you would imagine a lot of this dealt with the gaming software that we operated. In addition to this, we operate in a highly regulated environment and our Regulator (Gibraltar Regulatory Authority) stipulates (via a condition of our Remote Gambling Licence) that we provide games that are fair by ensuring that our gaming software is certified and tested regularly.

I can assure you that nothing has changed with the Microgaming Software that has been deliberately done to facilitate a lower payout percentage. We simply could not allow this to be the case, for the reasons mentioned above. It is impossible for us to put the detailed technical information into the public domain as ultimately this would lose MG any competitive advantage in much the same way that Coca Cola and KFC never give out their secret recipes for the same reason!!!

I am now off to enjoy the rest of my day off :

Cheers
Pat

I hate to say this, but....

GOTCHA!

What a catch eh fellow forum members

I can assure you that nothing has changed with the Microgaming Software that has been deliberately done to facilitate a lower payout percentage.

Changes HAVE INDEED been made, but these were NOT INTENDED to reduce the overall RTP, and are thus not "unfair".

This is the clincher

It is impossible for us to put the detailed technical information into the public domain as ultimately this would lose MG any competitive advantage

Well, if there were no changes, there would be NO "detailed technical information" that needed to be kept out of the public domain.

Mega Moolah,

So what happened, you can't deny it - it was SO OBVIOUS since it showed up as HUGE excess accumulations in both the Mini and Minor pools, AS WELL, as there being a "dry spell" in individual players seeing the jackpot wheel themselves.
IF it was PURELY a drop in the overall number of players, there would be a corresponding drop in the amount played into the game, and the pots would grow MORE SLOWLY, and while they would indeed be won less often, they would NOT grow so very significantly more that their established statistical distribution of hit values, nor "so every single time" during that two to three week spell.

While MG do not want their "secret recipes" available to competitors, them trying to pretend that nothing ever happened with Mega Moolah around the time of the Barcelona industry get together is not going to wash, all it does is confirm that they regularly "whitewash" matters.

Another thing, the MPV tournaments suddenly, and I mean SUDDENLY - it was overnight, developed this very severe "server lag", exhibited by the cost of a spin NOT being IMMEDIATELY deducted from the coins, AND the scrolling "waiting for server reply" indicator running for 5 seconds or more EVERY FRIGGIN' SPIN after the first couple.

"Your ISP" say MGS - "My ASS" I say in reply to them. It is possible to "fix" the problem with "my ISP" simply by not spinning for 10 seconds, and then spinning, and lo and behold "server lag caused by my ISP is fixed, whoopee".
This works EVERY TIME, so I must have some power to influence the entire congestion profile of the Internet by refraining from playing a spin for 10 seconds....

Bollox....

I don't know the secret technical details, but I have been playing MG for over 4 years, since VIPER was just being rolled out to replace the old Thumper lobby, and the VIPER lobby has been chock full of bugs throughout, none of which MG can be bothered with, UNLESS their screw ups end up costing the CASINOS money, rather than simply costing the players money or lost enjoyment.
The MPV tournaments now have a NEW problem, players either log on to see NO TOURNAMENTS LISTED, or they ARE listed, and they can click on "join" till their fingers bleed, and there is NO WAY they can get in. This can even happen WHEN THEY HAVE ALREADY PAID, and what REALLY gets us mad is that the casinos REFUSE to refund the failed bet, and MGS simply allow this problem to go on and on.... well, the CASINOS make money whether players can play out their entries or not, so they don't care.

Fruit Machines (pub slots). WTF is with "casino error 6", where they are listed, but simply will NOT load for days at a trot, and then suddenly come back online. ALL the other games work in the meantime, just the 7 "Fruit Machines" show this error. Surely, we either have a connection to the game server, or we don't What IS error 6, as a message to the PLAYER, it is pointless, it tells us nothing. This issue HAS been raised with various casino helpdesks, but for months it has been going on with no sign that MGS give a rats ass about fixing it.

Players are starting to get very at this arrogant attitude displayed by MGS, and want some kind of redress. Soon, there will be riots, and then a revolution

 

[KasinoKing]

aka it aint about hitting that huge win and for me it never has been...as for blackjack etc ive absolutely no interest in it what i want is to deposit cash and have an few hours entertainment but atm its take take take and ive said this on another thread and it seems im not the only one that sees this pattern ..something has changed at MGs and everyone can see it..

Hi Alex,
Just wondering if you've actually seen my post in your other thread?
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/it-just-gets-worse.28001/
It's a virtually guaranteed way to make 200/month, if you have the will power.

Having said that & having read most of your other posts, maybe a new hobby would be a better idea...
KK

 

[pinsnpies]

Edit

 

[Alexishot69]

standard reply

"

The absence of any Free Spins being activated cannot be seen as there being anything wrong with the game and it certainly doesnt indicate that 32Red operates dodgy software supplied to us by Microgaming!



What I would say, is that operating any software that isnt fair and reliable is simply not an option for 32Red. We are a Public Company and, as a result, have legal and fiscal responsibilities both to our Shareholders and the Stock Exchange with these responsibilities being regularly audited and reviewed. Indeed, at the time of going public we were subject to a whole swathe of due diligence being completed and as you would imagine a lot of this dealt with the gaming software that we operated. In addition to this Alex, we operate in a highly regulated environment and our Regulator (Gibraltar Regulatory Authority) stipulates (via a condition of our Remote Gambling Licence) that we provide games that are fair by ensuring that our gaming software is certified and tested regularly."


Pat all i can is in response to this is that robert maxwell ran a "public"company on the "london stock exchange" so sory but that snot even remotely a way of ensuring guranteed security...you say during the latest fiasco my session asted 4 hours and i collected 15.20 during one session ..pat my response to this is during the 10s of 1000s of spins can you please share with the members here at casinomeister the biggest win ive had bearing in mind ive played inc bonuses 100s of pounds...compare this to a normal fruit machine and tel me whats fair about this....your claims as i spell above into integrity sorry noty just by me but by many people now just dont wash....id also be really interested in casinomesisters and max"s views on whats being discussed here as the sites fav casino is under scrutiny...

 

[Rusty]

I can assure you that nothing has changed with the Microgaming Software that has been deliberatly done to facilitate a lower payout percentage. We simply could not allow this to be the case, for the reasons mentioned above. It is impossible for us to put the detailed technical information into the public domain as ultimately this would lose MG any competitive advantage in much the same way that Coca Cola and KFC never give out their secret recipes for the same reason!!!

Would that be the secret weighting recipe by any chance?

After all if the game results are completely random (no weighting/algorithms/account tracking) then why the need of a secret recipe?

The only thing that would need protecting would be the slot design and that is a practical impossibility as anyone who plays the slot can see its design.


All online slots are weighted just like there B&M counterparts, there are algorithms that run in the background that determine the streaks and feature results, hell it is even legal as long as they return the stipulated payback over X amount of spins and maintain a random element.
How do you think AWP slots were ever legal?

The big problem with online play is the nefarious regulatory regimes that are supposed to ensure we get the stipulated payback and so we must basically rely on the Casinos integrity.

Now call me skeptical but I think we have to be naively trusting and somewhat blinkered to believe we are ever going to get a truly fair game while these circumstances remain in place.

If it was not for people like Bryan who earn a crust from the industry while retaining some moral integrity we would all be up shit creek without a paddle but as always we must keep in mind we don't have to jump into the boat but once being told it is safe it would be nice not to find it full of holes and paddleless.

Low roll on slots and play for entertainment only.

 

[patrina]

Hi Alex,
Just wondering if you've actually seen my post in your other thread?
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/it-just-gets-worse.28001/
It's a virtually guaranteed way to make 200/month, if you have the will power.

Having said that & having read most of your other posts, maybe a new hobby would be a better idea...

KK

KK? C'mon man, that is just an abrupt and uneccessary comment, no? Why should Alex change her hobby? (as you called it) I guess that would be the easiest way of hushing the situation eh? Just make Alex feel as if she is "overreacting" To make Alex feel or look like she is distressed because she may have had a run of bad luck or that she is a disgruntled player is not only unethical it is insulting her integrity, imo. She has a very valid concern and although some may see her comments as that of a bad sport, so to speak, is wrong, dead wrong imo. I feel the same way Alex does and I am not a disgruntled player or whatever you might want to call it. I am genuinely concerned that we make deposits and lose, lose, lose, lose, I know you cant win all the time, I know sometimes your going to make a deposit (and maybe several times this will hapen) and it's going to go fast, but how much do you think one person would have to put in one particular game in order to hit the biggest feature or payout? I play the same game (mostly) again and again. (Jellyfish jaunt) Only at one casino did I ever get the 5 jellyfish girls. I mean, I am talking about thousands and thousands of dollars. Just like the ole days when I went to a land based casino and played the 7's. Sometimes I could hit the triple 7's right away, and sometimes it would take hundreds of credits to hit, but it "would" eventually hit. So, with this in mind shouldn't a video slot do the same thing? Is it a different scenario? I dont know. Hushing the situation wont make it go away. I will say that 32 red and Dash have done best by me, but lately, it's been "really" bad no matter where I play. Except for the free spins promo where I got up to $200 the other day, I have made app. $2000 in deposits and haven't had a win. That is just one casino. And not anyone in particular as this is my typical play at all MG casinos. And, this is not only me, this isn't just "my run of bad luck" the same thing has been happening to my Mom and also several of my friends. How could it be that all 10 of us have had the same thing happening to us at once? Could we all be having a bad run? Could we all be "playing wrong?" I dont think so. I am not crying "rigged" I am not pointing fingers, as I said, 32 Red and Dash have been exceptions and it's not their fault I didn't cash out when I should have, but why oh why? Can I not get over $200? Yes, I'll switch the games, yes I have tried other games for longer spells, yes I have changed the bet. I dont understand. After a player makes that many deposits, does the game not recognize this and pay!? Eventually? Or is it that it doesn't matter how much you deposit? Is it true that in some instances, you can deposit till the cows come home but your not gonna hit? No matter what? I have addressed this issue with a casino and I was told two things, firstly one rep told me "the longer you play a game the better" and this one from a manager, (after emailing a concern about the fact that I didn't cash out at $800) "I would have to rewager 'that much' in order for the game to pay again." So, which is it? As players we want to know all this. And we have the right. We are gamblers, we want to win as well as be able to play for a while.
So please then can you explain "what gives?"
Patrina

 

[Rusty]

By the way I hope this does not turn into a witch hunt on 32Red because although I do not play there from reading various posts they are as good a MG casino as your are likely to find.

Alex started this thread and She should continue to take issue with 32Red as She sees fit and I apologise for any derail in making it a more general discussion on MG software.

 

[patrina]

By the way I hope this does not turn into a witch hunt on 32Red because although I do not play there from reading various posts they are as good a MG casino as your are likely to find.

Alex started this thread and She should continue to take issue with 32Red as She sees fit and I apologise for any derail in making it a more general discussion on MG software.

Yes indeed, the exception. I have to add to your post that they have been very good to me, even the other day with the free spins promo, they didn't even have to give it to me, as I wasn't aware I was entitled to this offer, but they did anyway, and no, it wasn't the first time they have done good by me and I know they have done the same thing with other players as well. They show appreciation for your loyalty and it must be recognized. But, my concerns are still very much alive, and that is directed at the software itself, not the casino, as I have expressed in my other post (above)
Patrina

 

[hippo925]

By the way I hope this does not turn into a witch hunt on 32Red because although I do not play there from reading various posts they are as good a MG casino as your are likely to find.

Alex started this thread and She should continue to take issue with 32Red as She sees fit and I apologise for any derail in making it a more general discussion on MG software.

i've only ever heard great things about 32red so i actually thought the relevant issue was more with how the software plays versus an individual casino.

I don't know how mg software plays now... i haven't played it in quite a while. I can, however, assure you that for me, the software played very differently and prompted me to stop all mg's altogether a while back.

I figure there must be something to all this since it is cleary not just a few disgruntled players who hit some bad streaks. I mean, there are some pretty intelligent and seasoned players who have made interesting observations, no?

 

[Rusty]

I think what you are describing is an AWP slot Patrina which MG (other than some new AWP additions) are not supposed to be.

In a truly random slot it is theoretically possible to spin forever without a win or to hit the jackpot several times running.
Of course in reality these events are so unlikely as to be practically impossible.

However I personally am convinced that online slots, any software, are not completely random with an equal probability of all outcomes being achieved at all times.

 

[Pinababy69]

Low roll on slots and play for entertainment only.

And that is the best advice there is. It is supposed to be entertainment and nothing more than that. If you get no enjoyment out of it, or really believe you are not getting a fair game, then a break from playing is probably a good idea. And especially if it is upsetting to you....that's not what gambling is supposed to be about.

I still don't understand how so many are convinced that the MG software has changed, and have such horrid experiences. Yet, others (such as KK and myself) find no differences? And Alex, like I said, I'm not at all discounting your recent experiences...if you say it's been that horrid, then I believe you. I'm just wondering why many of us seem to have such different experiences, and why our perception of the games/software seems at such odds with each other? Is it style of play, or bet size..or maybe the games played?

I really just don't even know what to say. I trust the MG software, always have. And have NEVER once felt that I wasn't receiving a fair game. Whether it's 32Red or not, is irrelevant to me, as the software is the same whichever casino you play. I play 32Red specifically, because of the way they treat their customers. But the game I get there is the same game I would get at any MG casino.

 

[patrina]

And that is the best advice there is. It is supposed to be entertainment and nothing more than that. If you get no enjoyment out of it, or really believe you are not getting a fair game, then a break from playing is probably a good idea. And especially if it is upsetting to you....that's not what gambling is supposed to be about.

I still don't understand how so many are convinced that the MG software has changed, and have such horrid experiences. Yet, others (such as KK and myself) find no differences? And Alex, like I said, I'm not at all discounting your recent experiences...if you say it's been that horrid, then I believe you. I'm just wondering why many of us seem to have such different experiences, and why our perception of the games/software seems at such odds with each other? Is it style of play, or bet size..or maybe the games played?

I really just don't even know what to say. I trust the MG software, always have. And have NEVER once felt that I wasn't receiving a fair game. Whether it's 32Red or not, is irrelevant to me, as the software is the same whichever casino you play. I play 32Red specifically, because of the way they treat their customers. But the game I get there is the same game I would get at any MG casino.

I have actually 'taken the break" now. As it was starting to upset me and as a stable person know that it is time to chill for a bit if it's getting to me. But, again I dont understand "exactly" how it all works and I have questions. And, when I was "always" fairing well except for here and there, I too, didn't see the biggie. Until it happens to you I guess it would be hard to get.
Patrina

 

[patrina]

Btw, as well Alex, I played the game "break da bank, again!" too, once. Changed my mind real quick after that one time. In one casino, (can't remember which one) they even advertise this game for high rollers (or high variance players, whatever you want to call it?) anyway, I had a heck of it with that one. Now the "only" time I will pull a spin is if I'm down to .09 or .18 cause (that I know of) it's the only one that you can spin with those cents, unless you want to lower your spins, of course. Have you tried other games or do you stick to this one?
Patrina

 

[silcnlayc]

Pinababy69: Yet, others (such as KK and myself) find no differences?

You're a genius! I just had a lightbulb moment when reading your post and it seems that most low rollers such as yourself and KK don't feel any differences whereas others that play midrange and up are screaming changes have been made...

Well, lets think on this a moment..lowrollers play for hours upon hours and either win a "little" or lose a "little". They pretty much do not make an impact on a casinos bottom line unlike the midrange to high rollers. This then is where it gets touchy..if some of you low rollers started upping the bet and keeping it there for long term...I guarantee you would see the casino playing differently as we do that stay consistantly at the level we are comfortable with..

I believe you found the key to this issue!

So now we need you low rollers to go play for a week at the midlevel rang ($1-5 a spin) and let us know if it still plays as if you were lowrolling


See if the casinos will front you some real "fun" money in real mode to disprove this...

.

 

[patrina]

You're a genius! I just had a lightbulb moment when reading your post and it seems that most low rollers such as yourself and KK don't feel any differences whereas others that play midrange and up are screaming changes have been made...

Well, lets think on this a moment..lowrollers play for hours upon hours and either win a "little" or lose a "little". They pretty much do not make an impact on a casinos bottom line unlike the midrange to high rollers. This then is where it gets touchy..if some of you low rollers started upping the bet and keeping it there for long term...I guarantee you would see the casino playing differently as we do that stay consistantly at the level we are comfortable with..

I believe you found the key to this issue!

So now we need you low rollers to go lay for a weel at the midlevel rang ($1-55 a spin) and let us know if it still plays as if you were lowrolling


.

I usually play $1, at full lines. Except for jellyfish j, where I play .75 sometimes I will play .80 or .90 but it's always in that range. Does anyone know.... does the payout change when you change your bet? I am asking this in sincere honesty that I actually dont know, so if this seems like I am asking this with the knowledge that it is fixed, with regards to the bet size, I'm not. These are the things we want to know.

 

[Pinababy69]

You're a genius! I just had a lightbulb moment when reading your post and it seems that most low rollers such as yourself and KK don't feel any differences whereas others that play midrange and up are screaming changes have been made...

Well, lets think on this a moment..lowrollers play for hours upon hours and either win a "little" or lose a "little". They pretty much do not make an impact on a casinos bottom line unlike the midrange to high rollers. This then is where it gets touchy..if some of you low rollers started upping the bet and keeping it there for long term...I guarantee you would see the casino playing differently as we do that stay consistantly at the level we are comfortable with..

I believe you found the key to this issue!

So now we need you low rollers to go play for a week at the midlevel rang ($1-5 a spin) and let us know if it still plays as if you were lowrolling


See if the casinos will front you some real "fun" money in real mode to disprove this...

.

You could be right Silc. Most of my bets range from 18c to 50c....$5 a pull on a slot machine would give me the shakes, lol. I play low stakes because I only deposit $20 or $25 at a time, and I want to be able to play for more than 15 minutes. And...if I do get my small deposit up to $150 or so, I cash it out. And I'm quite happy with that. I think maybe expectation also comes into it, and what you're satisfied with. I remember Simmo one time saying that he prefers the "hit and run" style as opposed to playtime. He may deposit a few hundred dollars, and then take however many spins he can get at $5 a pop or whatever. If he loses, he walks away. If he hits, it's probably for a large amount, and he cashes out and walks away. I only play once or maybe twice a week, but when I do play...I've had many sessions where I play for hours at a time. Of course I want to win....but my first priority is enjoyment, and nothing more. It's my entertainment.

Patrina, many casino reps have said over the years that the chances are the same whether you are playing 25c a spin, or $1 a spin. But the way I look at it is this...if I had $100 and played $1 a spin, that's 100 spins. If I play 25c a spin, that's 400 spins. I have a much higher chance of hitting something worthwhile with 400 spins than I do with 100 spins.

Again, it comes back to expectation, and what you are looking to get out it. I've won a couple hundred dollars on 25c spins, so I don't feel the need to bet $1 a spin or more. I know that the higher I bet, while the chance for a "huge" payout may be there, my money is going to be gone a whole lot faster if I lose. I don't need to win thousands, I'm happy with a couple hundred.

Just as Rusty said, if you're going to play slots, I think that low-rolling is the only way to go.

Patrina, there's lots of slots you could play with only 9c or 18c. Kathmandu, Thunderstruck, Spring Break, No Worries...among others. I have had huge payouts on all of them on very small bets. I've won $300 on Kat on a 27c bet, $140 on No Worries on an 18c bet...those are just a couple. Few weeks ago I won $160 on Isis on a 25c bet, then went over to Dragon's Loot and won another $100 and some odd on another 25c bet. Had I been spinning for $1 or more, who knows if I would have gotten the chance to get those hits, as I may have zeroed out before I got there.

After all is said and done, it's really down to personal preference and what you want to get out of it. If you just want enjoyment and the chance to win a few bucks, then low rolling is the way to go. If you're looking for extended playtime, low rolling is the way to go. If you are looking for the big score, and want to play higher stakes, I don't "think" that slots are the way to go.

 

[patrina]

[
Patrina, many casino reps have said over the years that the chances are the same whether you are playing 25c a spin, or $1 a spin. But the way I look at it is this...if I had $100 and played $1 a spin, that's 100 spins. If I play 25c a spin, that's 400 spins. I have a much higher chance of hitting something worthwhile with 400 spins than I do with 100 spins.
Patrina, there's lots of slots you could play with only 9c or 18c. Kathmandu, Thunderstruck, Spring Break, No Worries...among others. I have had huge payouts on all of them on very small bets. I've won $300 on Kat on a 27c bet, $140 on No Worries on an 18c bet...those are just a couple. Few weeks ago I won $160 on Isis on a 25c bet, then went over to Dragon's Loot and won another $100 and some odd on another 25c bet. Had I been spinning for $1 or more, who knows if I would have gotten the chance to get those hits, as I may have zeroed out before I got there.

After all is said and done, it's really down to personal preference and what you want to get out of it. If you just want enjoyment and the chance to win a few bucks, then low rolling is the way to go. If you're looking for extended playtime, low rolling is the way to go. If you are looking for the big score, and want to play higher stakes, I don't "think" that slots are the way to go.



I too, am happy with a couple hun, or 2, but, ok, here's an example of typical play. You can be completely honest with me as I can take it

So, my first deposit is $30 or $25, then I go to jj or moonshine, I play .75 or $1 a spin, full lines. No bonus round and I lose it in a matter of mins. So, I do this about 10-15 x, the same app. amount of deposits, the same bet, the same game and no bonus round. It seems like it wants to stop, but goes by. Does this seem normal to you? So, I chime out for a day or two, go back and do it again. Sometimes chime out for a week. But, always go back to the same games at the same bets. I mean, this never used to happen to me. This is just in the past few months. I will try the lower bet though, I dont want to, but I will see if it makes a difference. It shouldn't (by rights that is) though, should it? Like you said, it's not supposed to matter? And then my Mom and I will take turns. She will go on for say $50 and go through the same thing. Oh yeah, and another interesting thing happens sometimes. If I reinstall, you know how all your games are reset right? So, I reinstall and then load a couple games, maybe a couple 3 reel too. So then I finish playing my Mom logs on and guess what? The "exact" same games are on her favourites, although I had just reinstalled and she hasn't even downloaded anything yet. She has her own account # etc. so does that make sense that "my" games are showing in her account? This has happened more then once...[/QUOTE]
Patrina

 

[Pinababy69]

I have absolutely no idea about the fav games thing Patrina, maybe that is something that Pat or someone more familiar with the actual workings of the software can answer.

Anyway, just try the low bets and see what happens. Don't get me wrong...if I do manage to get a $25 deposit up over $100, I will try a few higher bets also...but on games like Dragon's Loot, Isis, Moonshine, Jellyfish I will seldom go over 50 or 75c. I honestly don't feel the need to, as I know the potential for a huge payout is there even on a small bet. And I also know that the higher my bet...the quicker my money is going to go, beause overall I'm going to get fewer spins, and thus, less chance to hit something worthwhile.

Also, when I deposit $25, seldom do I start off on a 25 line machine. More often than not, I will go to a 9 liner like No Worries (high variance, but absolutely enormous potential payouts) or Kathmandu or Thunderstruck and start off with 18c bets. Kathmandu is one of my favourite games of all time, but I think I played it about a week or two ago, and I'm positive I went about 600 spins with no bonus round, and zeroed out on very low bets. It happens. It's obviously in a down cycle right now, so I'll just stay away from it, and try it again in a few weeks maybe. I've had sessions on it too, where I've gotten the free spins 5 times within 100 spins. To me, that is the definition of random.

Bottom line for me, is I start small and try and work my way up, change games, maybe up my bet here and there depending on how it's going. I just figure if I'm meant to win, I will win just as well on a $25 deposit and small wagers as I will on $100 deposit and $1 wagers. And don't get caught in the trap of "I'll stick with this game, cause it's DUE to hit soon". I've done that, and still do it on occasion, and I'm pisssed at myself every single time I do it. They are never due to hit...they hit whenever they bloody well feel like it...could be after 50 spins, could be after 1000 spins. It hasn't happened often, but I've had times when I played Thunderstruck and gone in the neighbourhood of 1200 spins with no bonus rounds at all. And whenever it does happen, I curse myself and ask why in the hell I didn't switch games after the first 300 dead spins? Cause my silly little gambler's mind tells me "it's gonna hit any time now, it's due". It isn't, and it won't.

I have been playing many more different games the last six months, and I can honestly say that I'm alot happier.

 

[patrina]

I have absolutely no idea about the fav games thing Patrina, maybe that is something that Pat or someone more familiar with the actual workings of the software can answer.

Anyway, just try the low bets and see what happens. Don't get me wrong...if I do manage to get a $25 deposit up over $100, I will try a few higher bets also...but on games like Dragon's Loot, Isis, Moonshine, Jellyfish I will seldom go over 50 or 75c. I honestly don't feel the need to, as I know the potential for a huge payout is there even on a small bet. And I also know that the higher my bet...the quicker my money is going to go, beause overall I'm going to get fewer spins, and thus, less chance to hit something worthwhile.

Also, when I deposit $25, seldom do I start off on a 25 line machine. More often than not, I will go to a 9 liner like No Worries (high variance, but absolutely enormous potential payouts) or Kathmandu or Thunderstruck and start off with 18c bets. Kathmandu is one of my favourite games of all time, but I think I played it about a week or two ago, and I'm positive I went about 600 spins with no bonus round, and zeroed out on very low bets. It happens. It's obviously in a down cycle right now, so I'll just stay away from it, and try it again in a few weeks maybe. I've had sessions on it too, where I've gotten the free spins 5 times within 100 spins. To me, that is the definition of random.

Bottom line for me, is I start small and try and work my way up, change games, maybe up my bet here and there depending on how it's going. I just figure if I'm meant to win, I will win just as well on a $25 deposit and small wagers as I will on $100 deposit and $1 wagers. And don't get caught in the trap of "I'll stick with this game, cause it's DUE to hit soon". I've done that, and still do it on occasion, and I'm pisssed at myself every single time I do it. They are never due to hit...they hit whenever they bloody well feel like it...could be after 50 spins, could be after 1000 spins. It hasn't happened often, but I've had times when I played Thunderstruck and gone in the neighbourhood of 1200 spins with no bonus rounds at all. And whenever it does happen, I curse myself and ask why in the hell I didn't switch games after the first 300 dead spins? Cause my silly little gambler's mind tells me "it's gonna hit any time now, it's due". It isn't, and it won't.

I have been playing many more different games the last six months, and I can honestly say that I'm alot happier.

Hey Pina, Yes I used to do the same thing that 'your better sense tells you to do' if it isn't paying get out! That is, until I spoke with a rep and asked for some possible tips on the slots. I explained my bad run and she said "what I can tell you is the longer you play a game the better" (and if that is not the case, then do you realize how much money I have lost because of misinformation?) (and that is a major concern for me omg, I played that way for a long time! thinking it was going to pay, so hang in there!) so I went after that for the longest time lately. I dont think that really makes a dif either. I think, if the wheels are spinning and your not getting credits, the chances are, it's not going to change. If they are spinning 'normally' (at a normal rate, not too slow, not too fast, and the same time frame between starts and stops) and your getting crap, unless the reels spin up or change then your sheet out of luck for that game on that day. I think at that point you gotta get out and go to a game that is paying better. I find though, if I am not doing so well and then I get the bonus round, sometimes this has mixed up the reels and sometimes this will change the outcome of the spin, and then it will start paying. Now, this may be just a coincidential thing, but I dont know, this is the kind of thing I would like to know more about. And, is it true that if you do real well on a game, and then dont cash out, you will have to wager that much that you won 'again' in order for it to start paying again? See, this is what I was told, so it can be very confusing for the player. And a huge loss if you are misinformed.

p.s. So, it seems that there is skill involved and some intelligence needed to do ok on any game, even slots. To drop in your cash and just 'hope' to win doesn't seem like the name of the game anymore. 'Maybe it never did, my epiphany? tee hee One well worth knowing perhaps?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Random

Since the casinos are 100% certain the games are random, we shall expect NO CASES WHATSOEVER of casinos seeking to confiscate winnings, or issue bonus bans to SLOT players.

Sadly though, there have been several:-

2006 - MiniVegas - mass confiscation of winnings. SOME fraud involved (duplicate accounts/fake ID etc.) BUT quite a few players were told their slots play was "illegitimate".

So this was my WTF moment, "illegitimate" play on MG SLOTS, the ones we are told are RANDOM. MG cannot expect US to believe it if clearly THEY do not.

More recently, RIVAL have been mass bonus banning SLOTS players from bonus, again an oddity, as they have surely designed these bonuses to be -EV and players taking more bonuses are only going to lose long term.

CLEARLY, software slots are NOT completely random, there HAVE to be some strategies that can create a permanent +EV situation for players. Ruling out poorly constructed bonus promos, we still have a few very odd cases, such as the 2006 episode with MiniVegas, where one or two of the players said they not only played exclusively on slots, but that they took NO BONUS. Whatever "slot strategy" they used, MiniVegas believed that it worked, and started confiscating winnings.

I know know that there is something to look for


Now for this,

The absence of any Free Spins being activated cannot be seen as there being anything wrong with the game and it certainly doesnt indicate that 32Red operates dodgy software supplied to us by Microgaming!

OK, now let's make it more specific, and see if it still makes sense,

The absence of any bonus wheels being activated on Mega Moolah in over half an hour cannot be seen as there being anything wrong with the game and it certainly doesnt indicate that xxxxx.Casino operates dodgy software supplied to us by Microgaming!
I didn't "buy" that at the time, did anybody

 

[GrandMaster]

Or alternatively, the casino managers don't know anything about probability and get scared any time someone wins.

 

[Alexishot69]

again

i am NOT here having a go at 32red what i am doing is having a go at MG and its just that i play at 32red that i even mentioned them..kasinoking as someone pointed out earlier your remarks are pretty uncalled for ..i am not and never have been a complainer about anything in life but when i see something like i am seeing amongst others then i think its open for debate dont you? someone asked what other games i play and have played at mg inc,mermaids millions,spring break,ladies bite,bdb,jungle jim infact to be honest ove played mosta them all at low stakes and never ever had a thing its all just been on the take..what has been eye opening on this thread so far though is that vinyl has spotted what i can only call holes in 32reds defence and that sextremely worying surely for any player no?

 

[Pinababy69]

And, is it true that if you do real well on a game, and then dont cash out, you will have to wager that much that you won 'again' in order for it to start paying again? See, this is what I was told, so it can be very confusing for the player. And a huge loss if you are misinformed.

I don't know if that is the case Patrina...but what I can say is this, and I have been guilty of it myself. I've deposited say $25 and gone to No Worries (or any game), and within ten minutes I've turned that $25 into over $100 at least. Again, my gambler's mind starts telling me that hey, this slot is hot, up your bets and keep playing. And what happens? Yep, I lose it all. What the logical part of my brain should have been telling me is that I just got a 400% return on my deposit within ten minutes. The slot has given me what it's going to give me, at least for today. Of course it's going to take it back. It's not going to keep paying out at 400%, or even 200%. It's going to eat up that oh so rare huge hit/hits. Once you have had a big hit or two on a particular game, move on to something else. I'm good at saying it, but I don't practice it nearly enough. That's going to be my new rule for the New Year.

That's not to say though, that if I go to play a week later I won't have good luck again on that slot. I don't believe they have a memory that "stores" your large wins and makes you play it all back before you will win anything substantial on that same game again. I just think that in one particular session...you shouldn't push your luck with one game.

All this being said, this is just my own personal experience. There are many others on this forum who actually have an understanding of how the slots "work". I don't. I just play, I low roll, and I do what works for me, and what keeps me a satisfied customer and happy player. And yes, I have had long, and I mean long, extended periods where I couldn't buy a win no matter what I did. Two, three, four months at a time. But I find that rare.....there's usually one or two decent sessions in there at some point, where a cashout is feasible. I've also had periods of a week or two where I can't lose, and I mean at multiple casinos and softwares. Haven't had one of those in about eight months, but it will happen again. Until then, it's low rolling for me and just trying to enjoy the playtime I do get, which has been okay. And cashout even $100 or so when I can. $100 is four or five more deposits...why use my own money when I can play with theirs?

The way I look at it....if I go to a movie, by the time I pay for a babysitter, the movie, popcorn/drink and transportation....I'm spending close to $50 for two hours of entertainment. For $20 or $25 I can get the same level of enjoyment, and sometimes even get more than two hours of play...if I get a bit lucky. And that is all I ask for.

 

[patrina]

I don't know if that is the case Patrina...but what I can say is this, and I have been guilty of it myself. I've deposited say $25 and gone to No Worries (or any game), and within ten minutes I've turned that $25 into over $100 at least. Again, my gambler's mind starts telling me that hey, this slot is hot, up your bets and keep playing. And what happens? Yep, I lose it all. What the logical part of my brain should have been telling me is that I just got a 400% return on my deposit within ten minutes. The slot has given me what it's going to give me, at least for today. Of course it's going to take it back. It's not going to keep paying out at 400%, or even 200%. It's going to eat up that oh so rare huge hit/hits. Once you have had a big hit or two on a particular game, move on to something else. I'm good at saying it, but I don't practice it nearly enough. That's going to be my new rule for the New Year.

That's not to say though, that if I go to play a week later I won't have good luck again on that slot. I don't believe they have a memory that "stores" your large wins and makes you play it all back before you will win anything substantial on that same game again. I just think that in one particular session...you shouldn't push your luck with one game.

All this being said, this is just my own personal experience. There are many others on this forum who actually have an understanding of how the slots "work". I don't. I just play, I low roll, and I do what works for me, and what keeps me a satisfied customer and happy player. And yes, I have had long, and I mean long, extended periods where I couldn't buy a win no matter what I did. Two, three, four months at a time. But I find that rare.....there's usually one or two decent sessions in there at some point, where a cashout is feasible. I've also had periods of a week or two where I can't lose, and I mean at multiple casinos and softwares. Haven't had one of those in about eight months, but it will happen again. Until then, it's low rolling for me and just trying to enjoy the playtime I do get, which has been okay. And cashout even $100 or so when I can. $100 is four or five more deposits...why use my own money when I can play with theirs?

The way I look at it....if I go to a movie, by the time I pay for a babysitter, the movie, popcorn/drink and transportation....I'm spending close to $50 for two hours of entertainment. For $20 or $25 I can get the same level of enjoyment, and sometimes even get more than two hours of play...if I get a bit lucky. And that is all I ask for.

Yes, I try to think the same way. And yes I should cash out 'when' I can, but it always seems like I do well in the beginning of my play and then because I dont want to cash out yet, I dont and lose it all. That is not the casinos fault but my own, 'but' lately I, myself have done horribly, (except at Dash, mentioned) I mean really horribly. And by lately I mean in the past 6-7 months. And if you knew how much I deposited you would be stunned. And honest to god, I dont want to say who, because I dont want to do any bashing, but it 'was' a casino manager that told me about the rewagering. Seriously. So what am I supposed to think?
Patrina

 

[Pinababy69]

Seriously. So what am I supposed to think?
Patrina

LOL...wish I could tell you Patrina, but I can't. Again, can only go on my own personal experience. And I truly believe you guys when you say you have had horrendous playtime and luck. There are just too many people saying it, for me to discount it completely.

Maybe someone could answer this? Say a casino had their slots set to payout at 97.5%, and then had it changed to 95%. Would a small percentage drop actually account for a "noticeable" change in playtime/payouts? Especially for people who play higher stakes? I believe that when you low-roll as I do, you automatically lower your variance to begin with, as you are getting more spins from the outset. But if you are playing higher stakes, you are automatically raising your risk of ruin. Could a percentage point or two in payouts, actually alter a high roller's perception of what they are getting back, in terms of playtime, etc?

I'm no math whiz, and this is starting to go over my head, which is why I'm asking. I actually haven't checked the payout percentages for 32Red or any casino of late, but they do publish it monthly, so that's why I'm curious.