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issuing a challenge to 32red/mg

i am NOT here having a go at 32red what i am doing is having a go at MG and its just that i play at 32red that i even mentioned them..kasinoking as someone pointed out earlier your remarks are pretty uncalled for ..
Just as you are not having a go at 32Red, I'm not having a go at you in particular, or at all in fact.
What I am trying to do is help you.
I've given you a way to make some easy money & you've ignored it... twice.
Your prerogative.

I don't need to write a great long post about this - just go back & read Pina's last 4 or 5 posts and that is my exact opinion too.
All I can post here is what I have personally experienced. I'm not questioning what you or anyone else is seeing - how could I when there is no way for me to see what's happening during your play?
All I can say is that I've played MG's slots every month for over 4 years and have seen nothing where I could conclusively say that something has changed with the games.
Yes, I low-roll all the time because that's just my way. As to the suggestion that I try high-rolling for a bit - forget it! I have a mission & a plan - to win back the crazy amounts of money I blew away for over 20 years on stupid rigged fruit machines - and I ain't finished yet.
I am not now, nor I have ever said that MG or any other software is definitely fair - how could I possibly know that? In my opinion it is fair, but I can't categorically state that it is because there's no way for me to prove it.

I really hope your luck changes soon - but for goodness sake PLEASE stop playing Break your Bank.
KK
 
again

Just as you are not having a go at 32Red, I'm not having a go at you in particular, or at all in fact.
What I am trying to do is help you.
I've given you a way to make some easy money & you've ignored it... twice.
Your prerogative.

I don't need to write a great long post about this - just go back & read Pina's last 4 or 5 posts and that is my exact opinion too.
All I can post here is what I have personally experienced. I'm not questioning what you or anyone else is seeing - how could I when there is no way for me to see what's happening during your play?
All I can say is that I've played MG's slots every month for over 4 years and have seen nothing where I could conclusively say that something has changed with the games.
Yes, I low-roll all the time because that's just my way. As to the suggestion that I try high-rolling for a bit - forget it! I have a mission & a plan - to win back the crazy amounts of money I blew away for over 20 years on stupid rigged fruit machines - and I ain't finished yet.
I am not now, nor I have ever said that MG or any other software is definitely fair - how could I possibly know that? In my opinion it is fair, but I can't categorically state that it is because there's no way for me to prove it.

I really hope your luck changes soon - but for goodness sake PLEASE stop playing Break your Bank.
KK

I have taken your advice and wont play that again however id be really interested to hear what you have to say about VWMs posts a cpl pages back where he has opened up a whole new outlook on this thread by unearthing loopholes in pats reply...once again this has nothing to do with 32 its MG im having a go at and it seems from reading this thread something has changed and thnx as i say to vwms input the cracks are appearing dont you think? on the other matter again about how to make from slots i reckon id need taken by the hand and shown how to do it :lolup: but then agan maybe i just need a new hobby huh:thumbsup:
 
I have taken your advice and wont play that again however id be really interested to hear what you have to say about VWMs posts a cpl pages back where he has opened up a whole new outlook on this thread by unearthing loopholes in pats reply...once again this has nothing to do with 32 its MG im having a go at and it seems from reading this thread something has changed and thnx as i say to vwms input the cracks are appearing dont you think? on the other matter again about how to make from slots i reckon id need taken by the hand and shown how to do it :lolup: but then agan maybe i just need a new hobby huh:thumbsup:

Here's another one for you;)

many casino reps have said over the years that the chances are the same whether you are playing 25c a spin, or $1 a spin.

:D;)
 

KK, I am very curious to know, and this question can be applied to anyone that plays MG. Has your bonus rounds ever stopped and then moved or jumped out of the way, so it isn't triggered? With jellyfish j for example, three tornados trigger the free spins right? So, two will roll on down, smooth as chocolate, then the third one stops, just for a fraction of a second and then wtf? it decides uh, nope, I aint staying? Now, this has never ever happened at 32 Red or Dash, but many many other MG casinos. My play varies, from the reels running real smooth, to choppy, really slow, or like I said, inconsistent. I was playing at Roxy palace one time, 'fortune cookie' k? So the three fortune cookies come down on the line, and the third one all of a sudden moves! Now, would you be pissed? This is 'not' my connection btw. I have the best service money can buy and have never had any other problems with my computer. I had microsoft fix my computer and there was a huge amount of spyware etc. so I thought ok, someone is hacking into my games. But, after it was all fixed, it still happens. So, do you ever have this problem? And does this make any sense to you or anyone? Alex, does this happen to you when your playing? I really would not waste my time bitching and moaning over something if it wasn't so important to me, trust me, I have pneumonia right now and should be resting but I am adamant about some of these issues. After all, this is my money were talking about, money I spend at a casino for a service and I am not getting what I am paying for, right? I know KK that if you had an issue with a casino you would not back down, so? And no, this is about the software not the casino, so were not getting personal. Ok, here's a new theory, someone had outlined the type of customer a casino wants before, in an older thread (maybe it was you KK?) whomever it was, said the casino wants "the recreational player" maybe I and some others dont fit that profile? I dont know, but my money means alot to me and "I tell the dollar what to do, I dont let the dollar tell me what to do" Just so you all know, I am a responsible player anyway. I just feel really beaten, that's all.
Patrina
 
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KK, I am very curious to know, and this question can be applied to anyone that plays MG. Has your bonus rounds ever stopped and then moved or jumped out of the way, so it isn't triggered? With jellyfish j for example, three tornados trigger the free spins right? So, two will roll on down, smooth as chocolate, then the third one stops, just for a fraction of a second and then wtf? it decides uh, nope, I aint staying? Now, this has never ever happened at 32 Red or Dash, but many many other MG casinos. My play varies, from the reels running real smooth, to choppy, really slow, or like I said, inconsistent. I was playing at Roxy palace one time, 'fortune cookie' k? So the three fortune cookies come down on the line, and the third one all of a sudden moves! Now, would you be pissed? This is 'not' my connection btw. I have the best service money can buy and have never had any other problems with my computer. I had microsoft fix my computer and there was a huge amount of spyware etc. so I thought ok, someone is hacking into my games. But, after it was all fixed, it still happens. So, do you ever have this problem? And does this make any sense to you or anyone? Alex, does this happen to you when your playing? I really would not waste my time bitching and moaning over something if it wasn't so important to me, trust me, I have pneumonia right now and should be resting but I am adamant about some of these issues. After all, this is my money were talking about, money I spend at a casino for a service and I am not getting what I am paying for, right? I know KK that if you had an issue with a casino you would not back down, so? And no, this is about the software not the casino, so were not getting personal. Ok, here's a new theory, someone had outlined the type of customer a casino wants before, in an older thread (maybe it was you KK?) whomever it was, said the casino wants "the recreational player" maybe I and some others dont fit that profile? I dont know, but my money means alot to me and "I tell the dollar what to do, I dont let the dollar tell me what to do" Just so you all know, I am a responsible player anyway. I just feel really beaten, that's all.
Patrina


I suspect it is a problem with the VIPER lobby. Even on MY PC, if I run a single MG casino for a long time, the smooth graphics get progressively choppier and choppier, and it does reach the stage where images freeze and jump, and animations, and even sounds, play incorrectly. This is no more than poor programming and inadequate testing, however, where these jumps, spits, and freezes make it look like a good symbol has jumped off the winline, it makes MG loom like it is cheating.

Maybe it is, but that is not how;)
 
I suspect it is a problem with the VIPER lobby. Even on MY PC, if I run a single MG casino for a long time, the smooth graphics get progressively choppier and choppier, and it does reach the stage where images freeze and jump, and animations, and even sounds, play incorrectly. This is no more than poor programming and inadequate testing, however, where these jumps, spits, and freezes make it look like a good symbol has jumped off the winline, it makes MG loom like it is cheating.

Maybe it is, but that is not how;)

Ok VWM, I'll buy it from 'you,' but I swore there was some evil hacker hacking into my games to alter them. I know the casinos are under scrutiny and undergo constant tests for fairness etc., but I did actually think someone was hacking me to death! Thx
Patrina
 
I suspect it is a problem with the VIPER lobby. Even on MY PC, if I run a single MG casino for a long time, the smooth graphics get progressively choppier and choppier, and it does reach the stage where images freeze and jump, and animations, and even sounds, play incorrectly.

It happens to me too, on occasion. As VWM said, usually if I've been playing for an extended period of time. And it's not my computer, or lack of memory or anything like that. I have 1 Gig of RAM, Intel dual core processor and decent enough graphics capabilities that even 3Dice runs correctly. It's definitely a bug of some sort. If I close the casino down, and then restart it, it will run fine again.
 
one thing

i have had happen not just once but constantly is if i get a bonus round on the slot "the osbournes" the game just totally freezes and ive had to close down the pc and restart it but mosta the time i just have to log off and log back on...the other things i have to be honest ive never seen or maybe just never paid attention..ive been reading back over all the posts here tonight and just once again want to reiterate i am not complaining about losing i am just suggesting that things at MG are not what they should be and feel vindicated by the fact others have noticed this also..from playing "high variance" to low variance games its just the same and patrina your spot on we play for entertainment and now you cant even get that nomore...People reading this prob will say well why play then...my answer is simple i play because its a hobby and get a buzz out of it but atm its not a buzz its just trying my patience :lolup: ive also stupidly started chasing losses over the past week something i will no longer be doing cos i know the future fo rme and MG is debatable :lolup: what really cracks me up in some posts is when casinos come out and say but your payout was this that and tother..what we play want is once in a while is a win am i right? having played 100s ive hardly ever at anytime been in front farless been close to a withdrawal...
 
i have had happen not just once but constantly is if i get a bonus round on the slot "the osbournes" the game just totally freezes and ive had to close down the pc and restart it but mosta the time i just have to log off and log back on...the other things i have to be honest ive never seen or maybe just never paid attention..ive been reading back over all the posts here tonight and just once again want to reiterate i am not complaining about losing i am just suggesting that things at MG are not what they should be and feel vindicated by the fact others have noticed this also..from playing "high variance" to low variance games its just the same and patrina your spot on we play for entertainment and now you cant even get that nomore...People reading this prob will say well why play then...my answer is simple i play because its a hobby and get a buzz out of it but atm its not a buzz its just trying my patience :lolup: ive also stupidly started chasing losses over the past week something i will no longer be doing cos i know the future fo rme and MG is debatable :lolup: what really cracks me up in some posts is when casinos come out and say but your payout was this that and tother..what we play want is once in a while is a win am i right? having played 100s ive hardly ever at anytime been in front farless been close to a withdrawal...


Don't get mad - get even:machinegu
 
Why should it be different for a player to play at $1 a spin for a 100 spins or for a player playing at 25 cents a spin at 100 spins? They both should even out but they don't.

Why? Because the higher the bet, the less payout you achieve...because if a low roller can hit continuously and get their 25 cent bet up over a hundred it would only be common sense a player playing a $1 would get over $400, now wouldn't it?

This is after some play time...etc as Pina says, she can play hours on $20-25 dollars a deposit at 25 cent a spin. Why can't someone play at $1 spin play the same amount? It doesn't compute if it is truly all the same and the denomination doesn't matter, does it?

But it doesn't work like that. There is a reason for it....the bottom line for casinos...I believe if you deposit and play in the same increments and the same games and the same way contiuously, the overall scenerio should be close to the same, regardless...that IS if it is on the up and up...

Think about it...you never hear small rollers complain much if at all about losing it quickly..but if the same amount is spent in a higher denomination, it goes in a flash..no sense at all....why is that? Because IMO, the higher you play, the less hits you are allowed by the game. It's preset...period..


.
 
Don't get mad - get even:machinegu

Your quote and little guy there reminded me of something there VWM, and that is, does it effect the game if you click multiple times on a spin? Sometimes I'll go click click click, instead of just click, (that sounds funny lol) and the game will act a little odd. Does this affect the outcome? I wouldn't think so, but with the rewagering and all in mind I'm wondering if they have a counter or such. I know it's a random number generator right? But honestly, you could tell me that over and over again and I still dont get it. So what is a random number generator then?
And Alex, dont worry about how you are portraying yourself, we all know that you are not crying rigged or whining that your not winning anything. I for one completely understand what frustrations arise from gaming, and trust me me & you are not alone. I question the software all the time. If I didn't I would question myself;)
Patrina:thumbsup:
 
It happens to me too, on occasion. As VWM said, usually if I've been playing for an extended period of time. And it's not my computer, or lack of memory or anything like that. I have 1 Gig of RAM, Intel dual core processor and decent enough graphics capabilities that even 3Dice runs correctly. It's definitely a bug of some sort. If I close the casino down, and then restart it, it will run fine again.

Pina, it happens to me right away at some casinos. Do you know that game we used to have when we were little? The one where you would have the pictures and you would turn them down and it used to go kinda like, blat blat blat blat blat? (yeh, ok I was a funny little kid lol) well I dont know if you know the game I am referring to but you turned it manually? Well, sometimes that is how the games seem to me. like someone is manually turning my pictures for me, I get soo mad, and I'm like "enough already!" Yes, if I log on and off it helps 'sometimes' Anyway, frustrating! And contrary to what some may think... I am not 2 anymore!!:baby: lol I want to turn my own damn pictures, thank you! Ok off to rest, I think the antibiotics are getting to me now. Maybe back later..if anyone cares:sob: Just kidding all:) Have a good night!
Patrina
 
this is so true I used to get 5 rams
all the time about 2 yrs back
now lucky to get 3

boy they sure do look
Pretty


Cindy

Ahhh, I know, Cindy :( Is that thunderstruck? I haven't played that one much but I do remember one time I did play, I did pretty good. Gee, thank god we have each other to lean on eh?
Patrina
 
aka it aint about hitting that huge win and for me it never has been...as for blackjack etc ive absolutely no interest in it what i want is to deposit cash and have an few hours entertainment but atm its take take take and ive said this on another thread and it seems im not the only one that sees this pattern ..something has changed at MGs and everyone can see it..
If it's an obvious change that "everyone" sees, then some supporting numerical data would be helpful. This will confirm that the results truly are abnormal and are not just normal variance due to a relatively low number of spins on a high variance game.
 
If it's an obvious change that "everyone" sees, then some supporting numerical data would be helpful. This will confirm that the results truly are abnormal and are not just normal variance due to a relatively low number of spins on a high variance game.


aka23, would the player supply that info? And if so, how would one do that? thx
Patrina
 
What does it tell?

Like Jas said if you go back about two years or more in that thread you will see shot after shot after shot of great wins from MG casinos, and large wins too, and then fast forward to this year and there are hardly any at all in there and not only from the US players but from the other international players that used to post quite a few in it too !!
 
I recently wagered through a bonus on Mega Moolah...

200 @ 30x = 6,000

2.50 a spin

6000 / 2.50 = 2,400 Spins, give or take the occasional increase of bet.

I hit the bonus round once....go figure.

MG is a joke lately and I don't play anymore, Playtech get my business. 'Random' jackpots are the worst idea in the world, they're so obviously rigged to only reward higher staking players, and it's about time MG and Crypto realised that they're fighting a losing battle against the likes of Playtech.
 
KK, I am very curious to know, and this question can be applied to anyone that plays MG. Has your bonus rounds ever stopped and then moved or jumped out of the way, so it isn't triggered?
Patrina
As many others have said, yes I have had 'jerky reels' from time to time.
Sometimes a bonus symbol has been involved, and sometimes not.
But I agree with VWM, this is just a 'hiccup' with the graphics; these are not real physical machines with actual reels - just a graphical representation of 5 random numbers generated by a computer.
KK
 
32Red

Evening all,

Apologies for not being able to reply any earlier; rather a lot of opinions, views, and conspiracy theories for me to digest!

In response to the belief that something has changed with MG Ill let the figures do the talking, so please find below the Payout Percentages (for Slot Games) at 32Red over the last two years;

Month 2007 2008
Jan 107.24 94.71
Feb 95.58 104.10
Mar 95.80 96.11
Apr 95.51 95.25
May 97.31 95.29
Jun 95.71 94.59
July 95.37 95.92
Aug 94.32 96.28
Sep 96.49 96.14
Oct 95.34 95.98
Nov 96.81
Dec 96.26
AVE 96.81 96.44

As is evidenced by the above, there has been very little month to month fluctuation in the overall Payout Percentage for Slots Games at 32Red in the last two years. I'm not sure what other evidence you would like to see provided, but I am always open to (reasonable) suggestions.

Over to you...
Cheers
Pat
 
Evening all,

Apologies for not being able to reply any earlier; rather a lot of opinions, views, and conspiracy theories for me to digest!

In response to the belief that something has changed with MG Ill let the figures do the talking, so please find below the Payout Percentages (for Slot Games) at 32Red over the last two years;

Month 2007 2008
Jan 107.24 94.71
Feb 95.58 104.10
Mar 95.80 96.11
Apr 95.51 95.25
May 97.31 95.29
Jun 95.71 94.59
July 95.37 95.92
Aug 94.32 96.28
Sep 96.49 96.14
Oct 95.34 95.98
Nov 96.81
Dec 96.26
AVE 96.81 96.44

As is evidenced by the above, there has been very little month to month fluctuation in the overall Payout Percentage for Slots Games at 32Red in the last two years. I'm not sure what other evidence you would like to see provided, but I am always open to (reasonable) suggestions.

Over to you...
Cheers
Pat

Thanks for posting that Pat...:thumbsup:

Is there anyway you could post the results for 2005, so we could compare to 2008 and could you also include the VP numbers too ?? in separate columns so they don't skew the slots results...:)
 
After being involved in this thread last night, it got me to wondering what my own payout percentages were recently and in the last couple of years. I'm a happy, satisfied player with no complaints, who doesn't feel that her payouts have changed much at all...not recently, not ever. So I asked Pat to run the figures for me, and this is what I got back. I asked for four figures specifically...

October 2008 - 95.84%
November 2008 - 90.72%
Year To Date - 93.65%
Lifetime - 95.44%

A couple of things jumped out at me, the first being the 90% for November. That was truly a shocker as I would have guessed it was at LEAST 95%, maybe more. I had a few amazing sessions, and some really big hits...so I can only surmise that I must have also had a few real stinkers, which looking back, I did, lol. Also, there is still seven days left to the month....quite possible that will go up a notch or two. I have taken just shy of 30,000 spins so far this month, so a good session or two with a decent amount of spins could up that.

The second thing was that my overall payouts have remained pretty much consistent, which is what I felt even before seeing them. This only shows the last two years, which is the time I have been playing at 32Red exclusively. I don't have any other MG data to compare it to, so can only comment on 32Red.

Like I stated earlier, my own personal experience was that nothing had changed (for me), and my stats seem to back up that statement.

As Rob said, thanks for posting that Pat...and for at least trying to provide some sort of reply to the questions raised in the thread. Hope you're wearing your teflon suit. :laugh:

EDIT: The lifetime figure is actually for a four year period, the total length of time I have been playing at 32Red. I think about early 2005 is when I started there. It's only been the last two years that I've played ONLY there. Just wanted to clarify that.
 
Good to see more people taking the red pill!


Very nice of you mentioning the parking of games, this is a very fun way of playing however you see some strange patterns emerging doing this. I for one also used to do this as my woman just as yours didn't have time for the spins infront of the bonus game, :D I also like the 50 spins pr game.
I did it even simpler most times, as you may go for something as simple as 15 spins pr game on say $5, before you loose 1K you will get some 500/750 wins you be sure, however the total amount will slowly decrease in increments of 100 from a 1000 starting point.

I'm done online anyway, I removed all software so I do not care anymore.

What I do crae about, is that this is not that dangerous really. If I dtop after a win, and let another player fill the incrementing loosing streaks I could in theory jump back in on the good win. Well - this works in B&M casinos, but online it all looks like you are playing against your own account - rendering it hopeless and impossible to win. The only way you can win is by loosing. Depending on your previous gameplay and how your numbers turns out, you may need to loose 3K for each win cycle. This would mean, in my experience that is, you loose 3K - then start winning up to say 2.5K and all over again.
Sometimes theese cycles gets ajousted, say you could win 2 cycles in one win, however you would need 6K in losses to recover again. Bottom line you are not able to win.

However some people are winning, well not some, one person, KK in particular. It does seem that this system just aswell as B&G machines favour lower wagers. This is easy to understand since most people wager low, and when they win they can tell all their friends. If one person lose his head he will most likely loose far more than KK ever won the last 6 months anyways. I believe the lower wagers are set to pay out in average what the higher doesnt, atleast that makes 100%.

In basic this is the system, you shall have a maximum of 95% payout. If having to low payout over a calculated amount of betting units you will get a winning streak, bonus games are heavily calculated and controlled from your global payout. This means you will not be able to have many good wins over a shot period of time, it will suddenly flat out since you cannot win to much. Also it means if you loose, you won't be able to loose for to long since you cannot have to low payout. (Like if you loose 2-5K in a night, next day usually starts with great wins!, this is interesting since they usually dont!)

We could make the system more production stable, by adding a few more layers of randomness. We could say that the balancing system (Which by the way sequences numbers from a true RNG, no problem, however we build good normal and bad sequences for when we need them) will stand for 80% of the gameplay, 10% will be used for gambles and 10% will be for accual randomness.

What this means in a programmers eyes is atleast 3 things,
  1. For each $100 into the game $80 should be delivered back into a 95% tweaked game which ensures the player gets winning streaks (however the pitfall of ensuring winning streaks from low payout is ensuring loosing streaks since you got winning streaks, fuzzy logic working the way it should).
  2. $10 is saved away into gambling pots (which come in three sizes for each denomination, small/medium/large).
  3. The last $10 from the profit is infact real randomness, that you might accually be able to win by random, this could be great wins.

What this means is:
If can get a great win, this is possible due to point 3. Also to achieve 95% payout you need to gamble, unless you will loose out in point 2. The house however is indeed already guaranteed far more than a 5% edge depending on point 2.

The problem is that point 1 kicks in and kindof destroys the game for everyone, since a great win from point 3 will be costly since the balancing kicks in from point 1-

You could add more factors into the mix, and the more data you require to devide the different mechanics the more random it will look. If the system gets predictable in a certain way, you could always add more layers.
The system is however predictable, however it's predictable in a way you never retrieve more than you deposited.

As I said, it's easy to win 3K if you are willing to deposit 4K, and it is easy to spot a losing sequence of spins and when it starts turning. You can switch game to what you like and cash in the win (which will not be enough that is!).

Hope you keep your deposits low my friend, since atleast this way we are able to win - however not much, and its no fun playing either since you need to sit and look at teeny weeny spins and who really cares for that? Casino geeks? I for one do not want that, I want to be able to once a while deposit 1K and wager it and feel I have a fair chance of winning!

By the way I hope this does not turn into a witch hunt on 32Red because although I do not play there from reading various posts they are as good a MG casino as your are likely to find.

Indeed, blame game does not work here since the system is what we are talking about. If the operator has any say we do not know, however path's comments indeed shows some knowledge I suppose we were not supposed to know!

If it's an obvious change that "everyone" sees, then some supporting numerical data would be helpful. This will confirm that the results truly are abnormal and are not just normal variance due to a relatively low number of spins on a high variance game.

What games are you playing yourself would be a better question. Given your superior (no pun intended here!) mathematical knowledge if you are wagering high you should easy experience the same yourself.


Yo mate! Always love to read your comments. I don't have much to add on them since for me you are preaching to the converted!

....

Anyways, just couldn't keep myself from adding some thoughts here. I would love for a weekend in London sometime having a few beers with some of you people, I am sure we would have lot's to talk about! However - as mentioned in earlier threads - my online "career" is terminated!
 
Evening all,

Apologies for not being able to reply any earlier; rather a lot of opinions, views, and conspiracy theories for me to digest!

In response to the belief that something has changed with MG Ill let the figures do the talking, so please find below the Payout Percentages (for Slot Games) at 32Red over the last two years;

Month 2007 2008
Jan 107.24 94.71
Feb 95.58 104.10
Mar 95.80 96.11
Apr 95.51 95.25
May 97.31 95.29
Jun 95.71 94.59
July 95.37 95.92
Aug 94.32 96.28
Sep 96.49 96.14
Oct 95.34 95.98
Nov 96.81
Dec 96.26
AVE 96.81 96.44

As is evidenced by the above, there has been very little month to month fluctuation in the overall Payout Percentage for Slots Games at 32Red in the last two years. I'm not sure what other evidence you would like to see provided, but I am always open to (reasonable) suggestions.

Over to you...
Cheers
Pat

These show that RTP has not been changed, however it is the VARIANCE that is in question, this certainly DOES seem to have changed.

I would also like to know why no MG rep is prepared to address the Mega Moolah issue - this is on this thread, but you simply ignored it.

The occurance was around the time of the Barcelona event, and lasted a good 2 weeks. It was undeniable, it happened, the variance for the jackpot wheel changed by several orders of magnitude for a couple of weeks, and then abruptly changed back to "normal". The evidence was that the two smaller pots CONSISTENTLY built to 10x, even 100x their normal range of values before being "won by another player". I saw the Mini, usually never out of double figures, and mostly the lower end, and it was into the THOUSANDS - there is simply no way this was down to "random variance", because this did not just happen the once, it happened pretty much EVERY SINGLE TIME during that period.

This is something that MG ARE choosing to hide, and from this, we can deduce that MG "do cover ups", so reassurances that "all is fine" have been seriously undermined, they could simply be "another cover up".

With Mega Moolah, we have the "smoking gun", yet MG believe they can still keep this covered up. With the rest of the allegations, we have nothing but "pattern recognitions" coupled with "gut feeling". MG are hardly going to fess up if they won't fess up about Mega Moolah.
 
Good to see more people taking the red pill!



Very nice of you mentioning the parking of games, this is a very fun way of playing however you see some strange patterns emerging doing this. I for one also used to do this as my woman just as yours didn't have time for the spins infront of the bonus game, :D I also like the 50 spins pr game.

Lol, it started with just two or three "parked" bonuses and my wife enjoyed it so much it became a fun way for me to play and share the "fun" parts with my wife. And you don't have to convince me about the "strange patterns emerging doing this." After a while, i just picked whatever 18 games my cursor was closest too or any that my wife liked because it DID NOT matter what games you chose. If you want to see some good bonuses on games that generally have low variance, crappy bonuses... wait for a really bad run and THEN play those games. That's how i got those 8-10 time retriggers on munchkins and cabin fever, lol.;)

I'd also like to see the explanation on the megah moolah stuff instead of it just being COMPLETELY ignored all the time....
 
Lol, it started with just two or three "parked" bonuses and my wife enjoyed it so much it became a fun way for me to play and share the "fun" parts with my wife. And you don't have to convince me about the "strange patterns emerging doing this." After a while, i just picked whatever 18 games my cursor was closest too or any that my wife liked because it DID NOT matter what games you chose. If you want to see some good bonuses on games that generally have low variance, crappy bonuses... wait for a really bad run and THEN play those games. That's how i got those 8-10 time retriggers on munchkins and cabin fever, lol.;)

I'd also like to see the explanation on the megah moolah stuff instead of it just being COMPLETELY ignored all the time....

Perhaps THIS is what all that stuff about "illegitimate play" was about with MiniVegas back in 2006 - so, clearly it MAY be that other casinos will view this as "manipulating the outcomes", "illegitimate play" or whatever.
Maybe, there are, or were, methods by which these odd behaviours could be used to manipulate the software. You park LOADS, the software rhinks "cripes, time for one of those winning streaks", player gets streak, and then "unparks" - hey presto 100%+ on the SLOTS, and "illegitimate play".
Well something happened, and it BLOODY WELL WORKED, since MiniVegas started confiscating winnings derived from an undefined method of "illegitimate play", and players said NO BONUSES WERE INVOLVED, so it was a PURE manipulator - just like our Fruitie ones here in the UK.

Random eh! shoudn't work should it, didn't anyone tell MiniVegas management that BEFORE they embarrassed themselves in public:rolleyes:
 
Lol, it started with just two or three "parked" bonuses and my wife enjoyed it so much it became a fun way for me to play and share the "fun" parts with my wife. And you don't have to convince me about the "strange patterns emerging doing this." After a while, i just picked whatever 18 games my cursor was closest too or any that my wife liked because it DID NOT matter what games you chose. If you want to see some good bonuses on games that generally have low variance, crappy bonuses... wait for a really bad run and THEN play those games. That's how i got those 8-10 time retriggers on munchkins and cabin fever, lol.;)

So, how about doing an experiment, parking a few bonus rounds to see whether they give correlated results (for example if one good bonus round always leads to remaining parked rounds to give crap). I mean if this is the best way to reveal non-randomness, shouldn't we focus on this?
 
After being involved in this thread last night, it got me to wondering what my own payout percentages were recently and in the last couple of years. I'm a happy, satisfied player with no complaints, who doesn't feel that her payouts have changed much at all...not recently, not ever. So I asked Pat to run the figures for me, and this is what I got back. I asked for four figures specifically...

October 2008 - 95.84%
November 2008 - 90.72%
Year To Date - 93.65%
Lifetime - 95.44%

A couple of things jumped out at me, the first being the 90% for November. That was truly a shocker as I would have guessed it was at LEAST 95%, maybe more. I had a few amazing sessions, and some really big hits...so I can only surmise that I must have also had a few real stinkers, which looking back, I did, lol. Also, there is still seven days left to the month....quite possible that will go up a notch or two. I have taken just shy of 30,000 spins so far this month, so a good session or two with a decent amount of spins could up that.

The second thing was that my overall payouts have remained pretty much consistent, which is what I felt even before seeing them. This only shows the last two years, which is the time I have been playing at 32Red exclusively. I don't have any other MG data to compare it to, so can only comment on 32Red.

Like I stated earlier, my own personal experience was that nothing had changed (for me), and my stats seem to back up that statement.

As Rob said, thanks for posting that Pat...and for at least trying to provide some sort of reply to the questions raised in the thread. Hope you're wearing your teflon suit. :laugh:

EDIT: The lifetime figure is actually for a four year period, the total length of time I have been playing at 32Red. I think about early 2005 is when I started there. It's only been the last two years that I've played ONLY there. Just wanted to clarify that.

So even when you win you lose.
Amazing hits balanced out by stinking sessions.
You are just not seeing it from a programmers eyes.
I would take the consistency of your results as evidence of weighting rather than a fair game but then we both have a bias even if we are not aware of it.
The main thing is you are happy with the game that you are getting.
 
pina

forgive me for maybe being a bit thinck but thes eresults for a player seem pretty consistent ..so here is my question for %s to be so close over a period of mnths dosent that make you think theses machines do have a memory? if that wasnt the case id expect a much bigger difference in %s over a period of a few months..to even have 2 months where the % is exactly 95% is really weird id have thought no?
 
So, how about doing an experiment, parking a few bonus rounds to see whether they give correlated results (for example if one good bonus round always leads to remaining parked rounds to give crap). I mean if this is the best way to reveal non-randomness, shouldn't we focus on this?

It would be interesting to see other players experiences when "parking" bonuses. In my experience, it always depended on the streak you were on, whether good or bad. I can tell you for me, the parked bonuses paid back 60-80% unless i was on a "win" streak.

As an example, one time i had 14 out of the 18 bonuses and after 13 bonuses, my balance was around $40 (starting with about $400). I was quite disappointed, but my last bonus on the stash of the titans game gave me $250 on a .40 bet bringing me back up to $290 out of the $400 i started with. This happened to me very consistently, though not always so drastic, and the games that would "balance" things out were always different and many times ones that you would'nt expect to pay so well. On the other hand, if i did hit some good bonuses early, the last ones would suck and that became frustrating because we always saved cashapillar, break the bank again, avalon, dolphin tales, etc. for the end.

If anything, i did begin to feel that the payback was more controlled than it should be and that it didn't matter which games i was playing, but like many here always say... it's just my imagination!:rolleyes:
 
forgive me for maybe being a bit thinck but thes eresults for a player seem pretty consistent ..so here is my question for %s to be so close over a period of mnths dosent that make you think theses machines do have a memory? if that wasnt the case id expect a much bigger difference in %s over a period of a few months..to even have 2 months where the % is exactly 95% is really weird id have thought no?

It really depends on your betting style and the type of slots you play.

If Like Pinababy you low roll on relatively low variance slots and play many Thousands of spins I would expect the payouts to be relatively well grouped.
What gets my attention is that even with rare big wins on One session the Month still balances out below 100%.
If a very rare good sessions of say 500%+ was followed by several rare 45% sessions then I would find that curious.

People seem to forget that with a 96% return there is generally an equal chance of getting a higher or lower figure than this (It is not 96% max) but it depends on how long you play and the variance of the slot.
 
aka23, would the player supply that info? And if so, how would one do that? thx
Patrina
It could be done in many ways, using any number that you have from the slot data. Maybe you used to never go more than 200 spins without getting a bonus round, and now you need far more spins; Or you used to get 100x wins regularly on a game and now you hardly ever get them; Or you have data for a very large number of spins and it shows a lower payout now than in the past; Or simply an abnormally low payout. As I recall, kimss made a script that analyzes MG game play returns and reports various stats.

However, saying you played 100 spins (or some other low number) on Thursday and had a 70% payout or similar does not show a problem, as you'd expect some results like this on a high variance slot.
 
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I have pm'd some MG casinos and am going to pm a couple more now to ask for my percentages. I know 32 Red will send them to me when they have a chance, but for the others? I am not so sure, and those are the ones I would like to see. I know at Casino Splendido, I made at least $500 in deposits in a couple months time and 'never' ever got over $40-$50 'if' that. So, we'll see. With 32 Red/ Dash, my percentages are probably good, or half decent, but I dont expect them to be for the past 6 months or so, not sure. What I do know is my play has sucked and is nothing like it was when I first started to play.
Patrina

p.s. I have just tried to email RP and it seems I cannot because they have exceeded their pm's and cannot receive anymore until they clear out their pm's! "I have emailed'
 
People seem to forget that with a 96% return there is generally an equal chance of getting a higher or lower figure than this (It is not 96% max) but it depends on how long you play and the variance of the slot.

To get the 96% long term return includes also hitting the jackpot (or maximum possible win). I think that unless you hit the jackpot, you should expect something like 90% overall return because the rest of the payback is in the large wins. So it much more likely to be below 96% return than above it.

The attached text file shows the probabilities of reaching certain return percentage after 1000 spins on Tomb Raider I slot with maximum lines played. We see from the table that there is 100% - 66% = 34% chance of being ahead (return percentage more than 100%) after 1000 spins. Let me know if you want some other numbers and I will do the simulations.
 
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As per RobWin's request...

...please find attached spreadsheet showing the Payout Percentages on Slots Games at 32Red from 2005 to the present.
I have also included the Video Poker 'stats' for this year to date.

Cheers
Pat
 
Hey all. Path was kind enough to put these together for me, so here's the perc. for Dash & 32 Red, like I said, Dash and 32 Red have been the exceptions, now the other MG's well, we'll have to see if they get back to me?
Dash
Jan 08 86.64%
Feb 08 91.19%
Mar 08 89.14%
Apr. 08 80.0%
May 08 Nil Play
Jun 08 91.17%
Jul 08 73.14%
Aug 08 93.27%
Sep 08 97.54%
Oct 08 90.05%
Nov 08 98.06%

& 32 Red
Jan 08 Nil Play
Feb 08 Nil Play
Mar 08 80.79%
Apr 08 89.76%
May 08 47.13%
Jun 08 95.02%
Jly 08 83.95%
Aug 08 95.22%
Sep 08 100.66%
Oct 08 87.15%
Nov 08 86.16%

To tell you the truth, I dont know if this is bad or good? I dont really understand it all much. Anyway, I will copy the other ones when I get them, I am positive that they are 'not good' Take care all,
Patrina
 
Hey all, I received an email from casino rewards with regards to my request for percentages. I have accounts with 'all' their casinos so I dont know why it was sent like this, but does this make sense?

As a representative of the Customer Loyalty Team I have happily looked into your inquiry.



After reviewing your account, your total percentage payout is 93% return.



This based on your total payouts across all your casino accounts within the Casino Rewards group.


Patrina
 
To tell you the truth, I dont know if this is bad or good? I dont really understand it all much. Anyway, I will copy the other ones when I get them, I am positive that they are 'not good' Take care all,
Patrina

Well I can tell you, :) Except from Sept08 in 32Red you have never won on a month to month basis! Unless you wagered extremly high and much that month you slightly went out ahead with a little profit.

You had 100,66% payout, that means if your total wagering that month was $10.000 you won $10.000 * 0,0066 = 66 dollars. This in reality would translate to, say you started the month by loosing big - at the end of the month you would feel you accually won alot...

You are well under expected payout in both casinos, and only once did you win (and when you won - you won nothing!). That is what I read. :/

Cheers from Norway!
 
Well I can tell you, :) Except from Sept08 in 32Red you have never won on a month to month basis! Unless you wagered extremly high and much that month you slightly went out ahead with a little profit.

You had 100,66% payout, that means if your total wagering that month was $10.000 you won $10.000 * 0,0066 = 66 dollars. This in reality would translate to, say you started the month by loosing big - at the end of the month you would feel you accually won alot...

You are well under expected payout in both casinos, and only once did you win (and when you won - you won nothing!). That is what I read. :/

Cheers from Norway!

Thanks so much for that kimss, I have had trouble translating it into actual wins/losses. Now, that's one of the 'good' ones! So, you can imagine my frustrations. I am hoping RP sends me the percentages but I am not holding my breath! Thx again:)

Patrina p.s. I always bet .75 to 1.00 never usually higher or lower, the only time I bet lower is when, say, I have .50 left in my credits, then I dont have a choice.
 
Hey all. Path was kind enough to put these together for me, so here's the perc. for Dash & 32 Red, like I said, Dash and 32 Red have been the exceptions, now the other MG's well, we'll have to see if they get back to me?
Dash
Jan 08 86.64%
Feb 08 91.19%
Mar 08 89.14%
Apr. 08 80.0%
May 08 Nil Play
Jun 08 91.17%
Jul 08 73.14%
Aug 08 93.27%
Sep 08 97.54%
Oct 08 90.05%
Nov 08 98.06%

& 32 Red
Jan 08 Nil Play
Feb 08 Nil Play
Mar 08 80.79%
Apr 08 89.76%
May 08 47.13%
Jun 08 95.02%
Jly 08 83.95%
Aug 08 95.22%
Sep 08 100.66%
Oct 08 87.15%
Nov 08 86.16%

To tell you the truth, I dont know if this is bad or good? I dont really understand it all much. Anyway, I will copy the other ones when I get them, I am positive that they are 'not good' Take care all,
Patrina

On the face of it they are very poor but I suspect not a whole lot different to many other peoples stats.
If you compare your figures to PatH's published figures you will notice they compare very unfavourably.

Have Dash or 32Red given you your overall lifetime slot % and total win/loss?
This would be more helpful as looking at individual Months (unless you wager the same amount in the same way each Month) can throw up deceptive overall results.
 
Ok, so here is the email from RP showing my percentages?

Dear Patrina,

Thank you for choosing Roxy Palace!

Management has reviewed the account and the payouts percentages are as follows : Roxy Palace (Last 6 months) 82.86% and Casino Splendido (Last 2 years) 80.03%.



If you have any further queries please don't hesitate to contact us.

We are here for you 24 hours, 7 days a week.

Sincerely,

Zain
Customer Support
Roxy Palace Online Casino
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.



So, that's not good right? I have never won anything, that I know for sure.

Patrina
 
On the face of it they are very poor but I suspect not a whole lot different to many other peoples stats.
If you compare your figures to PatH's published figures you will notice they compare very unfavourably.

Have Dash or 32Red given you your overall lifetime slot % and total win/loss?
This would be more helpful as looking at individual Months (unless you wager the same amount in the same way each Month) can throw up deceptive overall results.



Rusty, do you mean the transaction logs? If so, I would rather copy them instead of asking Path again as I dont want to keep bugging (him/her?) 'Sorry Path, not sure of your gender?'
p.s. I pretty much wager the same way all the time, for a long time I couldn't get the software downloaded at 32 Red so was at Dash, then when I finally got the connection, I played at 32 Red for months, then went back to Dash after a little bit. Now I will bounce back and forth so to speak.:)
 
Ok, so here is the email from RP showing my percentages?

Dear Patrina,

Thank you for choosing Roxy Palace!

Management has reviewed the account and the payouts percentages are as follows : Roxy Palace (Last 6 months) 82.86% and Casino Splendido (Last 2 years) 80.03%.



If you have any further queries please don't hesitate to contact us.

We are here for you 24 hours, 7 days a week.

Sincerely,

Zain
Customer Support
Roxy Palace Online Casino
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.



So, that's not good right? I have never won anything, that I know for sure.

Patrina

That is not good at all but without knowing how many games(spins) you played and how much you change your stake (affects variance) it is hard to comment further.
It would be very hard to make a case for MG slots being 95%+ based on your stats alone so far.
 
That is not good at all but without knowing how many games(spins) you played and how much you change your stake (affects variance) it is hard to comment further.
It would be very hard to make a case for MG slots being 95%+ based on your stats alone so far.


I think this is what you mean? I "almost always" play Jellyfish jaunt, or Moonshine and when I play at Jellyfish jaunt I bet .75 at .01 coin size and full lines, when I play at Moonshine, I bet $1 a spin at .01 coin size full lines. I have a few other MG casinos I play at, but have only emailed one more "Fortune Room" I suspect it will be close to the same. There is only one casino, well actually 2 where I really did good. One time when playing Rivernile, and this happened all in one session, I logged on to jj, hit the 5 jellyfish girls, then went to cutie pie, got the 7's a # of times, then went to mardi gras and the same thing, hit the 7's, then went to couch potatoe and hit the blue '7's' and a couch and that paid (I think) $1200 I ended up winning at every game I played at, I believe I walked away with 3 k or more. I can't play there anymore because 'someone' decided to use my computer and charge a bunch of e checks and never gave me the $ so they bounced and so I can't play there till that's paid. The 'someone' had a few too many that night and I was sleeping, so anyway, lesson learned there :( Anyway (and I dont blame them) I wouldn't want to ask them to do this for me when this situation hasn't been dealt with yet. 'because I'm awaiting 2 settlements there is nothing I can do until next month' Ok tmi, I know, but it's all about honesty here right now. Thx
Patrina
p.s. The other casino I did really well at was casino Tropez, I played the dragon slot (not the actual name but I forget what it is called) anyway, hit the 3 dragons and it payed $1900, oh yeah and the first time I ever played was at Captain Cooks and I played Oceans 7's and won $2500 So, over the past 4 yrs? I think it's been? That is the most I have ever won. Otherwise a few hun here and there but that's it. That may seem ok to some, but not with the amount of deposits I have made. It's funny, whenever it is the beginning of a full moon, I am really lucky, coincidink? Dont know, but whether I play lotto, scratch tickets or slots, I'm usually lucky.:thumbsup:
 

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