If I owned this place, it would probably be for sale!

[takethemoney]

Times are turbulent for online gaming. The USA has basically been lost...again, but this one seems real. I think that takes a huge chunk, maybe a majority chunk out of the online gaming industry. Now, I understand this might be what would be viewed as a typical arrogant American assumption. Is it? For Bryan's sake, is it still going to be feasible for you to provide this service here? I wonder. I guess CM knows and understands the inner workings of running a site like this, but it seems like revenue should be way off, given all the recent casino problems.
Feedback is welcome here, so, by all means, please do discuss!

 

[chayton]

I'm sure there are enough people in the rest of the world to make sure that this site remains feasible, but it would be interesting to know what percentage of members here are from the US?

 

[DarkMage]

USA is not gone, there is to much $ at stake for new payment solutions to not open. I can still play and cashout from sportsbook/casinos with ease, I have actually seen a new trickle of payment solutions starting to be tested by a few different places.

Prohibition does not work

Casinomeister will be fine.

 

[rainmaker]

Well, US is an important marked, but it is really not that important anymore. Most of the largest online casinos has not accepted US players for a very long periode of time anyway.

The absolutely largest market for online gambling is in the rest of the world. Both Europe and Asia has much greater potential than US.

So it will be business as usuall for both Casinomeister and online casinos.


From Gambling Capital:

 

[maxd]

I think that takes a huge chunk, maybe a majority chunk out of the online gaming industry.

Certainly the US is a notable chunk of the biz but by no means the (overall) majority. Look at 32Red for instance: no US players for years now and they seem to be doing just fine!

Closer to home, Bryan could tell you the percentages but I know he's long made it part of his business plan to _not_ be reliant on the US market. Just read his posts on the subject, he's been warning people for years to look to non-US revenue streams.

So (a) I'm glad you don't own this place because I like the work I do here and (b) I strongly suspect that Casinomeister will weather this just fine.

Either way I'll flag this for Bryan so he'll know you were asking.

 

[rainmaker]

Strange thing, I acctually got my first ever negative rep point on my previous post in this thread. Funny that "the giver" acctually thinks that I am the arrogant one here.

suzecat: My figures and my overview about the online gambling industry comes from Gambling Capital.

About Gambling Capital:

H2 Gambling Capital is the gambling industry's leading consulting, market intelligence and data team. We have a track record of over a dozen years focused on the global gambling industry. H2’s projections have been influential in shaping legislators’ view of the gambling sector in both Europe and the United States.

 

[suzecat]

Strange thing, I acctually got my first ever negative rep point on my previous post in this thread. Funny that "the giver" acctually thinks that I am the arrogant one here.

suzecat: My figures and my overview about the online gambling industry comes from Gambling Capital.

About Gambling Capital:

H2 Gambling Capital is the gambling industry's leading consulting, market intelligence and data team. We have a track record of over a dozen years focused on the global gambling industry. H2’s projections have been influential in shaping legislators’ view of the gambling sector in both Europe and the United States.

I took no issue with your figures or overview. what set me off was the unbridled comment seemingly directed at the US being typically arrogant. I questioned whether that was an arrogant Norwegian response. I do see you edited out that part of your post. I do appreciate and thank you for that action.

 

[rainmaker]

I took no issue with your figures or overview. what set me off was the unbridled comment seemingly directed at the US being typically arrogant. I questioned whether that was an arrogant Norwegian response. I do see you edited out that part of your post. I do appreciate and thank you for that action.

Yes, my post included this before I edited it (even with a smiley):

I agree, a typical arrogant American assumption

But that was just a "funny" comment because OP did use the same sentence in his post.

OP post: Now, I understand this might be what would be viewed as a typical arrogant American assumption.

 

[takethemoney]

I had no real agenda here. I was just curious if the events as of late would effect Casinomeister. I think we all appreciate this site and what Bryan has done for all of us, as well as the hours and hours Max puts in helping players. Come to think of it, they probably both have lots on their plates. Thanks guys!

I joked about "typical arrogant American assumption". I had a friend in Bulgaria that I said something to once and he told me
I had made a typical arrogant American assumption. Stinking Euros. LOL

 

[rainmaker]

I had no real agenda here. I was just curious if the events as of late would effect Casinomeister. I think we all appreciate this site and what Bryan has done for all of us, as well as the hours and hours Max puts in helping players. Come to think of it, they probably both have lots on their plates. Thanks guys!

I joked about "typical arrogant American assumption". I had a friend in Bulgaria that I said something to once and he told me
I had made a typical arrogant American assumption. Stinking Euros. LOL

Yeah, thats what I thought. That you said it with a funny intention. So I also joked about it, and recieved neg rep I have an American friend and I call him arrogant all the time. Because...you know...world police, biggest and greates and all that

 

[Nifty29]

Strange thing, I acctually got my first ever negative rep point on my previous post in this thread. Funny that "the giver" acctually thinks that I am the arrogant one here.

suzecat: My figures and my overview about the online gambling industry comes from Gambling Capital.

About Gambling Capital:

H2 Gambling Capital is the gambling industry's leading consulting, market intelligence and data team. We have a track record of over a dozen years focused on the global gambling industry. H2’s projections have been influential in shaping legislators’ view of the gambling sector in both Europe and the United States.

WHAT??

Someone neg repped you for THAT?

Sorry, but that's incredibly childish IMO.

Neg repping should be reserved for serious infractions, not over-reactions from the thin-skinned.

Your neg rep should be removed rainmaker and I suggest you ask Max if he can do so.

 

[rainmaker]

WHAT??

Someone neg repped you for THAT?

Sorry, but that's incredibly childish IMO.

Neg repping should be reserved for serious infractions, not over-reactions from the thin-skinned.

Your neg rep should be removed rainmaker and I suggest you ask Max if he can do so.

Yeah, I got neg rep for this sentence :

I agree, a typical arrogant American assumption

It was obviously a joke with the reference to what the OP said (since he was the one who used "a typical arrogant American assumtion, I only added "I agree" and a smiley), so yes it is thin-skinned. I edited it away before I saw the "neg rep", but only because I wanted to focus on the case, and not the joke.

I also think that neg-rep should be "saved" for rude, unfair posts etc. So I was a bit surprised. I think I only have given out 1 or 2 neg rep in my time on this forum. And I have never recieved one.

It is not a big case, but more like a principal thing. I don`t think people should use that feature if they only disagree with a person. I disagree with people all the time, but I don`t "neg rep" them of course.

 

[mrracetrack]

Neg repping is a user "feature" that should be removed, in my opinion.

All it does is cause "hurt feelings" and is primarily used to "get back" at someone that has annoyed you.

It is a "feature" that is frequently abused, and used inappropriately by many members.

Perhaps just Bryan and the moderators should be allowed to use it.

Even the "thanks" button has been used inappropriately many times in the past... I personally have been "judged guilty" of that violation... and have been "chastised" for it by Bryan.

Now I'll just sit back and wait to see who will "neg-rep" me for this post...

 

[jod5413]

Me First! Me First!!!!!

 

[suzecat]

Times are turbulent for online gaming. The USA has basically been lost...again, but this one seems real. I think that takes a huge chunk, maybe a majority chunk out of the online gaming industry. Now, I understand this might be what would be viewed as a typical arrogant American assumption. Is it? For Bryan's sake, is it still going to be feasible for you to provide this service here? I wonder. I guess CM knows and understands the inner workings of running a site like this, but it seems like revenue should be way off, given all the recent casino problems. Feedback is welcome here, so, by all means, please do discuss!

In this structure the "arrogant American" comment is made in the context of what might be true but certainly not in the context used by rainmaker.

NOTE=rainmaker;428951]Yes, my post included this before I edited it (even with a smiley):

The smily you included means "stick out tongue."
sorry rainmaker, that does not mean the comment "smiled upon" was meant to be humorous.

I agree, a typical arrogant American assumption

But that was just a "funny" comment because OP did use the same sentence in his post.

OP post: Now, I understand this might be what would be viewed as a typical arrogant American assumption. [

rainmaker you used a small portion of the OP's post to make a very definitive statement about Americans. As an American I was insulted by the comment and found it abusive and offensive.

As eluded to in other posts it takes thick skin to handle others' criticisms.

Niftyy29;428964]WHAT??

Someone neg repped you for THAT?

Sorry, but that's incredibly childish IMO.

Neg repping should be reserved for serious infractions, not over-reactions from the thin-skinned.

Your neg rep should be removed rainmaker and I suggest you ask Max if he can do so.

Hi Nifty, I am the member who gave the neg rep. As is easily seen I have been a member of this board for many years so I believe I have experienced many forms of abusive behavor. I also believe I can form an opinion about what is said and fairly react. That said, I found rainmakers post to be abusive and insulting and reacted accordingly.

 

[LaHutti]

That's funny.
Who the heck cares about "neg rep", whatever that is, and "thanks" anyway. ? I for one never look at it, and frankly don't even have any idea where to look. (no need to fill me in)

<friendly, joking, not stirring the pot, sorry if I offend anyone, but I AM posting my opninion regardless mode>

Someone taking an online forum and what someone else thinks about them, in a place like this a little bit too serious ? (insert friendly joking icons here)

</friendly, joking, not stirring the pot, sorry if I offend anyone, but I AM posting my opninion regardless mode>

lighten up a little folks

 

[rainmaker]

... I found rainmakers post to be abusive and insulting and reacted accordingly...

I'm sorry you felt that way about my post. I really can not understand why or how you came to that conclusion. I only copied what the OP wrote and agreed to it with a "joke smiley". You write that you were insulted by the comment and found it abusive and offensive. Your reaction here is truly a mystery to me. If you were so badly insulted, then my suggestion is that you need to report me to the mods and ask them to suspend my account here.

Anyway, lets end this discussion.

 

[gloria460]

It's funny that the USA is not important or will make a dent in the gambling industry except to most of the RTG, RIVAL, MCG (who made separate software just to keep the USA market and other smaller casino software) and some of these same companies such as rival, rtg, 3dice are still not willing to let the USA market go despite it being illegal to do so.

If the rest of the world makes such a huge market for online gambling then why can't they just let go like 32 red and a few other software providers.

 

[rainmaker]

It's funny that the USA is not important or will make a dent in the gambling industry except to most of the RTG, RIVAL, MCG (who made separate software just to keep the USA market and other smaller casino software) and some of these same companies such as rival, rtg, 3dice are still not willing to let the USA market go despite it being illegal to do so.

If the rest of the world makes such a huge market for online gambling then why can't they just let go like 32 red and a few other software providers.

I think that the US market is important for all industries. "Everybody" wants to be big in the US. US is also an important market for online gambling, but the figures shows us that the world market is not "depended" on the US market. Neither is Casinomeister of course. That was my point to the OP.

And as I have said, most of the large casinos has not acceptet US players in a very long time. I think that smaller casinos that has offered play to US players has done this because it is very lucrative for a small casino to position itself in a "thirsty" market. Only the smaller casinos are small enough to do this without making too much noise. And larger casinos/sportsbooks like Betsson has the resources to expand to other places, like Asia. Betsson has even expanded to China. So they really don`t need to take the risk of having US players.

And I would guess that some of the players from US only uses these minor casinos because they really don`t have so many opportunitues . We can only assume that many US players would have used for example 32red or whatever if they had the opportunity to choose. So it has probably been easier for smaller casinos to "keep customers", since the competition is weaker.

 

[Jasminebed]

I suspect that the difficulties experienced by US players will greatly affect most gambling portals.

But most businesses don't have all their eggs in one basket, and if you look at the CM accredited casinos, many don't accept US players.

I truly feel for my Webmaster friends here, and my American friends that have such troubles.

I thanked Rainmaker for the map he provided, and he had edited out the comment that stirred the pot at that point.

It's interesting that North America is all one market.... Canada has internet access per capita more than anywhere else in the world, or at least that was true 4 years ago.

I think regulated online gambling will be coming to the US, but it will be in the hands of government and/or established land-based gambling casinos.

Online gambling will be offered in the not so distant future to my province (Ontario). Been quite a while since I heard anything about how it's going in BC // derail //

Takethemoney, why sell when the market is soft? While the current loss of US players is a major hit, Casinomeister still has 80 percent plus of us.

The US facing casinos do not want to lose your business, and most are working hard to accomodate you.

But I'm seriously considering stopping play at Casinos that cater to the US market, or at least limiting it.

Casinos that focused mainly on a US market are taking a huge hit.

My American friends, I believe it's spring or summer in most parts of the country. It's enough rush to gamble, but that rush depends on winning, and by winning I don't mean nightmares of seized funds, looking over your shoulder for government agents, or huge transaction fees.

Free advice is worth what you pay for it, but I'd lay low, take a day trip to a landbased to have a roll of the dice or a pull at the slots. Invite a few friends over for adult beverages and a game of cards.

And keep checking here at CM is the DOJ is gonna let you have your money.

 

[max1mike]

..you know...world police, biggest and greates and all that

anytime you wanna go one on one, US vs. norway, I'll take that bet, we'll kick your ass...except maybe in luge or something.

 

[rainmaker]

anytime you wanna go one on one, US vs. norway, I'll take that bet, we'll kick your ass...except maybe in luge or something.

Funny guy

Yeah, I luge all day long

A normal day for me :

1. Wake up
2. Eat
3. Luge
4. Eat
5. Luge
6. Eat
7. Sleep

 

[anniemac]

As a US player, I don't see why the US problem would affect this forum a whole lot. CM hasn't been a US facing only site ever that I know of. There are some forums that I belong to that will be affected by this but I don't see it happening here.

This mess that is going on now really should not have been a suprise to any US player. The gov. warned us and we ignored them. Or at least I did and plan to keep on doing it. If they want me, it's way too late for me to hid now.

If it comes down to really not being able to play online, I will still enjoy coming here and reading threads and talking to friends I have made here. I will pine for the days when I could lose my money when and where I wanted to. I will be yearn for the days when I could play MG and Playtech games. I will live vicariously thru the winner screenshot thread. And hope that someday the US Gov. will let me be a grownup.

 

[max1mike]

you should practice more Rainman...you didn't even have an olympic luge team, as far as I could find, so we'll kick your ass at that too. but, you do have Helene Olafsen.

 

[rainmaker]

you should practice more Rainman...you didn't even have an olympic luge team, as far as I could find, so we'll kick your ass at that too. but, you do have Helene Olafsen.

hehe...I have neither seen or heard of her before so I had to Google her name

Helene Olafsen

 

[maxd]

Neg repping is a user "feature" that should be removed, in my opinion. ... It is a "feature" that is frequently abused, and used inappropriately by many members.

Go figure, I feel the same way about coloured text.

If the rest of the world makes such a huge market for online gambling then why can't they just let go like 32 red ....

Good question. As rainmaker rightly points out, the US is generally the "easy pickings" market, a fast way to build up a customer base and get the cash flowing. Because of this it is almost irresistible to new and/or cash-hungry casino operations.

Unfortunately the US also seems to be the "crack cocaine" of casino markets in that it's easy to get started but usually difficult to walk away from. And we all know what that leads to these days: a visit from the DOJ that can really ruin your day. Sites that started back-in-the-day as US-facing are mostly dead or dying; newbie sites focusing on the fast US buck are getting the stuffing kicked out of them and are dropping like flies at a Raid party.

... "Everybody" wants to be big in the US. ... it is very lucrative for a small casino to position itself in a "thirsty" market.

Quite so, a clear picture of where the industry is at insofar as the US is concerned.

I had no real agenda here.

No problems, the thread asks a good and fair question. I don't think anyone has said or implied anything about an "agenda".

 

[The Dude]

Not for Sale

I've never considered the members of Casinomeister as being a "market", so people are safe in this respect.

The casinos that support this site are primarily non-US facing - always have been.

At the moment, there are 103 casinos on the site - 17 are US friendly, that's about 16%. Six months ago, there were a handful more US friendly casinos (English Harbour group for instance), but the percentage was about the same. A year ago - the percentage was about the same as well - maybe up two percent. So the US facing/non-US facing casino issue doesn't really affect us.

For those interested, about 60-65% of the traffic at Casinomeister is non-US. If the DoJ decides to ban US residents from Casinomeister, we'll just lick our wounds and continue to deal with the rest of the free world like we've always have been

 

[jetset]

Bryan has been prudent in his business planning, making sensible decisions backed by legal advice, and as a consequence he has long diversified his offering; to answer the original question in this thread I therefore do not think the US situation is likely to ruin the solid enterprise that is Casinomeister.

In fact it could well benefit from it - marketing funds no longer deployed as widely in the US market could start flowing to opportunities in other markets, like Europe...and to respected and reputable sites like this.

When discussing the United States I think we have to remember that the 2010-2011 stats reflect a market long bedevilled by political inequities and enforcement persecution, and that the potential for future business in a legalised United States gambling market remain significant - even if it develops along protectionist lines as seems likely.

I doubt that any marketer currently eschewing US business will take his/her eye off that particular ball, because it has the potential to make such a difference to the industry once things come right - and imo that will, ultimately, happen.

In the meantime I have to feel some sympathy for operators and affiliates that for one reason or another are too heavily dependent on the US market to survive this blitz.

Seeing everything you have built up being so unfairly whittled away by an apparently vengeful government must be a hard pill to swallow.

 

[takethemoney]

I've never considered the members of Casinomeister as being a "market", so people are safe in this respect.

The casinos that support this site are primarily non-US facing - always have been.

At the moment, there are 103 casinos on the site - 17 are US friendly, that's about 16%. Six months ago, there were a handful more US friendly casinos (English Harbour group for instance), but the percentage was about the same. A year ago - the percentage was about the same as well - maybe up two percent. So the US facing/non-US facing casino issue doesn't really affect us.

For those interested, about 60-65% of the traffic at Casinomeister is non-US. If the DoJ decides to ban US residents from Casinomeister, we'll just lick our wounds and continue to deal with the rest of the free world like we've always have been

Bryan, glad you understood my thread as a question. I'd been out in the sun yesterday drinking beer on the river and in hindsight might have been a bit tipped and should have put it as a question in my thread title. Thanks!

 

[suzecat]

Bryan, glad you understood my thread as a question. I'd been out in the sun yesterday drinking beer on the river and in hindsight might have been a bit tipped and should have put it as a question in my thread title. Thanks!

TTM........I like that word. It just describes how I feel most of the time (and I do not drink or recreate with drugs). I feel tipped ....... yeah, that's it