Golden Reef - Cash in request refunded, struggling to get an explanation.

[Droid8]

Hi all,

[Not sure if this is in the right section, I presume it will be moved if it is not. New to online casinos, forums, etc]

I opened an account at Golden Reef Casino and recieved 100% bonus on my initial 100 deposit. I wagered through some on French Roulette, probably about 2000 worth give or take.

I ended up on 513 including the bonus. I then withdrew my cash balance (423) as I was happy with my winnings. In the T&Cs (unless I've missed something vital) it says "A Player's cash balance may be cashed in at any time".

However this 423 has been returned to my account since and the bonus has gone. The terms state "A player may view their bonus balance, cash balance and play through requirements by visiting the Bank and selecting Withdrawal". So I went and checked and again it says I am free to withdraw my cash balance, as it said before I initiated my withdrawal.

The terms also state "If a withdrawal is refunded due to the Player not meeting the play-through requirements, then any Welcome Bonus that was removed at the time of the withdrawal will be refunded to the Player account". This has not happened so I can only assume that, as stated in the terms and on the withdrawal page, there are no wager requirements on the cash balance and it is withdrawable at anythime .

I have e-mailed the CS a couple of times and had one response that said simply, your cash in was processed 6th July.

Am I missing something vital??? I am of reasonable intelligence (but not immune from making mistakes) and I have studied the T&Cs but can't see what I am doing wrong. Can anyone help me Please???

Thanks in advance .
A.A.

 

[Macgyver]

I opened an account at Golden Reef Casino and recieved 100% bonus on my initial £100 deposit. I wagered through some on French Roulette, probably about £2000 worth give or take.

Am I missing something vital??? I am of reasonable intelligence (but not immune from making mistakes) and I have studied the T&Cs but can't see what I am doing wrong. Can anyone help me Please???

Well, I looked at their T&C and did you see this part of it?

Bonus amounts credited to a Player's bonus balance are subject to 50 times play through before they may be cashed in.

50x your bonus of £100 = £5000.

If all you wagered was £2000 on roulette, I can see why they returned your withdrawal to you.

 

[Droid8]

Hi Macgyver,

Thanks for your response.

I did see that point in the T&Cs. But that further illustrates my point (I think). I did not try and withdraw my Bonus Balance which your quote relates to, just my Cash Balance. In addition, would it not make the statement " A players cash balance may be cashed in at anytime" completely defunct if it were to mean what you say???

The two balances although combined on the casino interface are dealt with in the T&Cs as seperate entities.

Again, I think this quote further compounds my point:

"If a Player makes a withdrawal, their bonus balance is reset to zero. This means that if a Player chooses to take back the money they deposited, they will lose any bonus money they may still have remaining in their Bonus balance."

If you have to fulfil all wagering requirements on your bonus balance before you can cash in your cash balance or your bonus balance, what would be the point in including the above statement. It would be irrelevant.

Can anyone see my point??

Thanks.
A.A.

 

[ergopro]

You should be able to withdraw your cash balance at any time...strange...
By doing that before meeting the WR the bonus should be removed from your account and the withdrawal of the cash balance processed normally...

 

[Droid8]

That's exactly what I thought should happen, but it has not.

What can I do about this issue, does anyone have any suggestions??

Thanks.
A.A.

 

[ergopro]

Well, here might be the reason...taken straight from their promotions page...
"Players who accept and wager using the Welcome Bonus are required to meet the full play-through requirements before a withdrawal will be approved. Please refer to the Terms and Conditions for more details. "

 

[Droid8]

Right, possibly. But then it refers you to the T&Cs page. Once you go and look at that, it's back to my original point. "cash balance can be withdrawn at any time". It's all very confusing and very un concise. A number of the points just contradict one another. Surely a big organisation such as a microgaming online casino should have clear concise terms and conditions???? It's not that difficult is it???

AA

 

[Dirk Diggler]

This group basically try anything possible to not payout when there's ever been a bonus involved on the account.

By their terms they should either pay the cash balance, or return the bonus amount so you can fullfill the reuired wagering to convert it into cash.

I can't believe they've returned the cash balance but not the bonus balance, just typical of these lot.

I used to be a Platinum VIP here, but they constantly reversed my withdrawals claiming I needed to complete wagering on bonuses I'd lost months ago.

I thought the introduction of the new MG bonus system was supposed to stop all this crap, but not with this group it hasn't.

 

[Droid8]

Ah right,

Thanks Dirk,

It doens't sound good though . I thought they were really reputable, as I noted they were in the recomended casinos on the meister site.

What are my options then???

I have contacted the C/S but they haven't given me a response. If I have to continue wagering, contrary to their T&Cs, then surely they must award me my bonus back. Otherwise it just seems like a con to me, having to meet a wager requirement without a bonus.

Any more help/suggestions greatly recieved.

A.A.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

If you can't get anywhere with them then your next step would be lodge a dispute with ecogra:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[silcnlayc]

Can anyone see my point??

Nope...

I am going to play devils advocate here for I feel this is just a plain silly question especially with all the ENDLESS horror bonus postings.

No offense meant to anyone, it just drives me crazy these postings when all in all, anyone with COMMON sense knows that a casino will not allow you to withdraw ANY FUNDS until you have met the WR if you took a bonus, regardless of whether or not the wording is not as you like after the INITIAL warning of bonus T&C's...and especially when it is posted UP FRONT such as this:

"Players who accept and wager using the Welcome Bonus are required to meet the full play-through requirements before a withdrawal will be approved.

Why would ANY casino allow you to withdraw ANYTHING if you haven't met the T&C's and WR, when you have had the enjoyment of playing with THIER money?

Alarm bells should have gone off BEFORE you deposited, with just this one condition, but yet, you go and deposit and play anyway, hoping the vagueness of the remainder of T&C's will be your out.

Using a little common sense when taking bonuses should always be foremost in your actions...if it states there are wagering requirements, then that is just what it is...period.....WR are standard for ALL deposit match bonuses..regardless of any T&C's hidden in the language that is not clear...everyone that uses bonuses knows this...

 

[kiolka]

the whole point of the ez bonus was that a player was supposed to be able to play any game they wanted (weighted accordingly), and be able to cash out any deposit + winnings at anytime (and forfeit the bonus).
That is what is written in the t+c's.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

the whole point of the ez bonus was that a player was supposed to be able to play any game they wanted (weighted accordingly), and be able to cash out any deposit + winnings at anytime (and forfeit the bonus).
That is what is written in the t+c's.

Totally agree with that.

Silcynlayc - that maybe was the case, but now every MG (apart from possibly this group) allow withdrawals of your cash balance whenever. You just lose any bonus money.

 

[Droid8]

Hi Silcnlayc,

I take on board your point now you have made it to me. However you are obviously an experienced on line gambler, I am not. I thoroughly read the terms and conditons on this casino and many other casinos before I deposited at any of them. This included those relating to bonuses and promotions.

I thought the terms on this one were the most favourable for me and that I had understood them, so I deposited. With out prior knowledge of these types of terms and conditions, what else have I to go on other than that which is in front of me? I'll also add to this that I read corporate law at university, so I have a reasonable understanding of legally binding documents.

"A Player's cash balance may be cashed in at any time". That seems very clear to me!!!! In fact I don't think it could be put clearer! What you have stated relies on prior knowledge of this issue. This I admittedly lack.

"Player’s who accept and wager using the Welcome Bonus are required to meet the full play-through requirements before a withdrawal will be approved"

Fair point, which I took on board - BUT only the BONUS money has any wager requirement on it. If I am mistaken, just show me where in the terms and conditions it says otherwise and I'll totally understand your point.

As for the horror stories you speak of I haven't read these, but will endevour to so now this has happened to me. It can't however, be assumed that the end user will have any prior knowledge, of anything at all on the subject, except what is written in the T&Cs.

I will have to write to the affiliate manager who I've since discovered is a member of this forum and will also lodge a complaint at ecogra.

Dirk Diggler and Kiolka, I feel more confident I am right now with what you have added here. Silcnlayc, please do not take anything I have written personally, it was not intended that way. Thank you all for your time on the matter.

Regards,
Droid8

 

[wobble33]

guys

there is another problem here with micro gaming (viper) ez or clear play bonus accounts where i dont think ANYONE has latched onto yet! now then, say you get £100 bonus for £100 deposit, the wagering requirements are x30 bonus only so £3000 to wager. you go on spring break (this is a 100% game allowed for wagering and just an example). you have done lets say £2500.00 wagering, and have just £500 left to wager. you get the bonus round and hit a £250.00 win. you say right here, if i double this, i have finished this wagering, and now i can cash out. only to find out when you go into cashier the £250.00 double up gamble hasnt counted!) . BUT IF YOU LOOK IN PLAYCHECK, YOU WILL SEE ITS STILL SAYING YOU HAVE WAGERED £500 ON THAT SPIN . now then, if you look in the terms and conditions, there is no mention of doubling up on ANY game doesnt count to clear bonus (except at casino action), they have a line in the terms saying something about doubling up. i found this out to my cost at 1 casino the other day, but i still managed to complete the wagering . so really this is a very sly trick off microgaming and the new bonus accounts. i think they want to rewrite there terms very carefully! and also if these microgaming casinos dont get their terms and conditions put right, bryan (cm) is going to be a very busy man.

 

[chuchu59]

When EZ just aint that easy

At first glance, I thought that the player must be wrong since he hadnt met the full WRs. However, when I read the Ts and Cs at Golden reef, I began to think differently. There are supposed to be 2 separate accounts, one a cash balance account and the other a bonus account. You can only use your bonus balance when you have emptied your cash account. In addition, the bonus cannot be withdrawn but funds can be transferred to the cash balance as a result of meeting playthrough requirements. Does this not mean that any bonus remaining in the bonus account is uncashable while the bonus transferred has in itself met the playthrough and together with the remaining cash balance, can be withdrawn at any time. Why should there be playthrough requirements for bonuses transferred to the cash account and another set of WRs for the total bonus itself? Seems conflicting to me.

I believe that the EZ Bonus system was designed to ensure that bonuses are not that easily abused. The player would have to deplete his whole cash balance to be able to use the bonus for wagering and even then the funds transferred from the bonus itself would have to meet playthrough and sent to the cash balnce account in increments. Once a withdrawal is initiated, the bonus balance will be reset to zero. I cannot honestly see how this can be viewed as 'bonus abuse' if that is what Golden Reef is thinking of.

 

[Mousey]

Droid8 ....

Have you tried to contact the casino rep here on the forum? At the top of this page where you are now, you will see a link for Casino Contacts. ... https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/groups/
When you get there, scroll down just a wee bit and look for "Casino Action". PM the rep with pertinent details, and perhaps they can at least find out what's up with your account.

P.S. ... Do I have the right casino group in mind, everyone? If not, please correct me. There have been so many changes it makes my brain ache to try and keep up with which casino went where....

 

[Droid8]

Hi,

Yes I have contacted the casino action rep on this forum. He responded straight away and told me he had forwarded the details on to the Golden Reef manager and that I would get a response. I'll wait for that response until after the weekend and then put in a complaint to ecogra if I don't hear anything.

Thanks again to everyone adding to this thread.

D8

 

[KasinoKing]

I think the casino is wrong & the player is right.
You should be able to withdraw your cash, as clearly stated in the T&C's.

If the rep does not sort the problem then Pitch a Bitch with Bryan.

Whatever you do, DO NOT play any more at this casino until this is resolved.
(Sorry to state the obvious! )

 

[Droid8]

Oh dear, too late for that.

I wanted a gamble yesterday and played a few slots.

Is this likely to cause me a lot of trouble???

Like I've said I am completely new to all this.

Cheers for the heads up on that though.

D8

 

[paul02085]

I think if any thread is started about a problem with a bonus there should be an automatic post by silc about why bonuses suck

 

[Macgyver]

Only if I (or KasinoKing) get an automatic post in response about why bonuses don't suck.

 

[silcnlayc]

I think if any thread is started about a problem with a bonus there should be an automatic post by silc about why bonuses suck

Yup , yup!

Only if I (or KasinoKing) get an automatic post in response about why bonuses don't suck.

Hmmm...tuff one, need to ponder this for a few moments...hang on........, ok, I think thats fair...

and this is why I think bonuses suck.....Now if I had taken a bonus with my little deposit of $50 when I hit this ( first 3 spins) ...I woulda been broke trying to reach the WR instead of cashing out my $600 within minutes (thank you 32RED!) of playing, and redepositing my initial $50, for more fun, and a nice stash for play elsewhere, hence...bonuses suck IMHO...

 

[Droid8]

Hi all.

This is the response the rep off the cm forum sent me:


"It has been bought to my attention that you have an issue with regards to the Term and Conditions outlining when you can make a withdrawal. Firstly please let me thank you for your thoughts regarding this. We have reviewed them and have updated them so they may not be seen as confusing.

However, the terms do state that you must meet the full wagering requirements before a withdrawal is to be approved. I realise that it also said that you can cashin at anytime but the terms and conditions should be complied with in full and not with just based on one point. Although you can make a withdrawal at anytime you still do need to meet the full wagering requirements for it to be approved.

I can understand why you might see this as confusing however this is a personal interpretation and not one shared by all. That being the case we have updated them and would like to give you a bonus (with no wagering requirements attached) as a measure of thanks. If you would like to accept this bonus then please just reply to this email stating such.

We have also placed the $70 bonus amount that was removed at the time of withdrawal for you to continue playing with. Once full wagering requirements have been met then your cashin will be approved. please note though that we will require you also to please provide identification"

As there are a lot of poeple with a whole lot more experience of these issues on the forum, I'd like to get opinions on whether this is a fair solution. I personally feel it is NOT, but a willing to go with it if the majority think it is. Otherwise I will try and P.A.B. to the casinomeister. The reason I am posting this and asking peoples opinions is so I don't waste the casinomeisters time.

Regards
D8.

 

[Pinababy69]

Although you can make a withdrawal at anytime you still do need to meet the full wagering requirements for it to be approved.

Okay, someone tell me that they are as confused as I am by that line? That makes absolutely zero sense to me. You can withdraw anytime, but it won't be approved unless you have met the WR in full? So why bother to withdraw then? Doesn't this nullify the whole basis of this new bonus system? That you can withdraw at any time, but in doing so, you forfeit any remaining bonus if WR have not been met?

I'm gonna go get someone to blow in my ear and give me a refill, cause I'm lost.