1. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
  2. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies. You can find out more by following.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

Golden Reef - Cash in request refunded, struggling to get an explanation.

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by Droid8, Jul 12, 2006.

    Jul 12, 2006
  1. Droid8

    Droid8 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Director
    Location:
    Whitchurch, U.K.
    Hi all,

    [Not sure if this is in the right section, I presume it will be moved if it is not. New to online casinos, forums, etc]

    I opened an account at Golden Reef Casino and recieved 100% bonus on my initial 100 deposit. I wagered through some on French Roulette, probably about 2000 worth give or take.

    I ended up on 513 including the bonus. I then withdrew my cash balance (423) as I was happy with my winnings. In the T&Cs (unless I've missed something vital) it says "A Player's cash balance may be cashed in at any time".

    However this 423 has been returned to my account since and the bonus has gone. The terms state "A player may view their bonus balance, cash balance and play through requirements by visiting the Bank and selecting Withdrawal". So I went and checked and again it says I am free to withdraw my cash balance, as it said before I initiated my withdrawal.

    The terms also state "If a withdrawal is refunded due to the Player not meeting the play-through requirements, then any Welcome Bonus that was removed at the time of the withdrawal will be refunded to the Player account". This has not happened so I can only assume that, as stated in the terms and on the withdrawal page, there are no wager requirements on the cash balance and it is withdrawable at anythime :confused: .

    I have e-mailed the CS a couple of times and had one response that said simply, your cash in was processed 6th July.

    Am I missing something vital??? I am of reasonable intelligence (but not immune from making mistakes) and I have studied the T&Cs but can't see what I am doing wrong. Can anyone help me Please???

    Thanks in advance:thumbsup: .
    A.A.
     
  2. Jul 12, 2006
  3. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Well, I looked at their T&C and did you see this part of it?

    50x your bonus of £100 = £5000.

    If all you wagered was £2000 on roulette, I can see why they returned your withdrawal to you.
     
  4. Jul 12, 2006
  5. Droid8

    Droid8 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Director
    Location:
    Whitchurch, U.K.
    Hi Macgyver,

    Thanks for your response.

    I did see that point in the T&Cs. But that further illustrates my point (I think). I did not try and withdraw my Bonus Balance which your quote relates to, just my Cash Balance. In addition, would it not make the statement " A players cash balance may be cashed in at anytime" completely defunct if it were to mean what you say???

    The two balances although combined on the casino interface are dealt with in the T&Cs as seperate entities.

    Again, I think this quote further compounds my point:

    "If a Player makes a withdrawal, their bonus balance is reset to zero. This means that if a Player chooses to take back the money they deposited, they will lose any bonus money they may still have remaining in their Bonus balance."

    If you have to fulfil all wagering requirements on your bonus balance before you can cash in your cash balance or your bonus balance, what would be the point in including the above statement. It would be irrelevant.

    Can anyone see my point??

    Thanks.
    A.A.
     
  6. Jul 12, 2006
  7. ergopro

    ergopro Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Gamblers Anonymous
    You should be able to withdraw your cash balance at any time...strange...
    By doing that before meeting the WR the bonus should be removed from your account and the withdrawal of the cash balance processed normally...
     
  8. Jul 12, 2006
  9. Droid8

    Droid8 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Director
    Location:
    Whitchurch, U.K.
    That's exactly what I thought should happen, but it has not.

    What can I do about this issue, does anyone have any suggestions??:confused:

    Thanks.
    A.A.
     
  10. Jul 12, 2006
  11. ergopro

    ergopro Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Gamblers Anonymous
    Well, here might be the reason...taken straight from their promotions page...
    "Players who accept and wager using the Welcome Bonus are required to meet the full play-through requirements before a withdrawal will be approved. Please refer to the Terms and Conditions for more details. "
     
  12. Jul 12, 2006
  13. Droid8

    Droid8 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Director
    Location:
    Whitchurch, U.K.
    Right, possibly. But then it refers you to the T&Cs page. Once you go and look at that, it's back to my original point. "cash balance can be withdrawn at any time". It's all very confusing and very un concise. A number of the points just contradict one another. Surely a big organisation such as a microgaming online casino should have clear concise terms and conditions???? It's not that difficult is it???

    AA
     
  14. Jul 12, 2006
  15. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Company Secretary
    Location:
    UK
    This group basically try anything possible to not payout when there's ever been a bonus involved on the account.

    By their terms they should either pay the cash balance, or return the bonus amount so you can fullfill the reuired wagering to convert it into cash.

    I can't believe they've returned the cash balance but not the bonus balance, just typical of these lot.

    I used to be a Platinum VIP here, but they constantly reversed my withdrawals claiming I needed to complete wagering on bonuses I'd lost months ago.

    I thought the introduction of the new MG bonus system was supposed to stop all this crap, but not with this group it hasn't.
     
  16. Jul 12, 2006
  17. Droid8

    Droid8 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Director
    Location:
    Whitchurch, U.K.
    Ah right,

    Thanks Dirk,

    It doens't sound good though:eek: . I thought they were really reputable, as I noted they were in the recomended casinos on the meister site.

    What are my options then???

    I have contacted the C/S but they haven't given me a response. If I have to continue wagering, contrary to their T&Cs, then surely they must award me my bonus back. Otherwise it just seems like a con to me, having to meet a wager requirement without a bonus.

    Any more help/suggestions greatly recieved.

    A.A.
     
  18. Jul 12, 2006
  19. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Company Secretary
    Location:
    UK
    If you can't get anywhere with them then your next step would be lodge a dispute with ecogra:

     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Jul 12, 2006
  21. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Nope...

    I am going to play devils advocate here for I feel this is just a plain silly question especially with all the ENDLESS horror bonus postings.

    No offense meant to anyone, it just drives me crazy these postings when all in all, anyone with COMMON sense knows that a casino will not allow you to withdraw ANY FUNDS until you have met the WR if you took a bonus, regardless of whether or not the wording is not as you like after the INITIAL warning of bonus T&C's...and especially when it is posted UP FRONT such as this:

    Why would ANY casino allow you to withdraw ANYTHING if you haven't met the T&C's and WR, when you have had the enjoyment of playing with THIER money?

    Alarm bells should have gone off BEFORE you deposited, with just this one condition, but yet, you go and deposit and play anyway, hoping the vagueness of the remainder of T&C's will be your out.

    Using a little common sense when taking bonuses should always be foremost in your actions...if it states there are wagering requirements, then that is just what it is...period.....WR are standard for ALL deposit match bonuses..regardless of any T&C's hidden in the language that is not clear...everyone that uses bonuses knows this...
     
  22. Jul 12, 2006
  23. kiolka

    kiolka Dormant account

    Location:
    Toronto
    the whole point of the ez bonus was that a player was supposed to be able to play any game they wanted (weighted accordingly), and be able to cash out any deposit + winnings at anytime (and forfeit the bonus).
    That is what is written in the t+c's.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Jul 12, 2006
  25. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Company Secretary
    Location:
    UK
    Totally agree with that.

    Silcynlayc - that maybe was the case, but now every MG (apart from possibly this group) allow withdrawals of your cash balance whenever. You just lose any bonus money.
     
  26. Jul 13, 2006
  27. Droid8

    Droid8 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Director
    Location:
    Whitchurch, U.K.
    Hi Silcnlayc,

    I take on board your point now you have made it to me. However you are obviously an experienced on line gambler, I am not. I thoroughly read the terms and conditons on this casino and many other casinos before I deposited at any of them. This included those relating to bonuses and promotions.

    I thought the terms on this one were the most favourable for me and that I had understood them, so I deposited. With out prior knowledge of these types of terms and conditions, what else have I to go on other than that which is in front of me? I'll also add to this that I read corporate law at university, so I have a reasonable understanding of legally binding documents.

    "A Player's cash balance may be cashed in at any time". That seems very clear to me!!!! In fact I don't think it could be put clearer! What you have stated relies on prior knowledge of this issue. This I admittedly lack.

    "Player’s who accept and wager using the Welcome Bonus are required to meet the full play-through requirements before a withdrawal will be approved"

    Fair point, which I took on board - BUT only the BONUS money has any wager requirement on it. If I am mistaken, just show me where in the terms and conditions it says otherwise and I'll totally understand your point.

    As for the horror stories you speak of I haven't read these, but will endevour to so now this has happened to me. It can't however, be assumed that the end user will have any prior knowledge, of anything at all on the subject, except what is written in the T&Cs.

    I will have to write to the affiliate manager who I've since discovered is a member of this forum and will also lodge a complaint at ecogra.

    Dirk Diggler and Kiolka, I feel more confident I am right now with what you have added here. Silcnlayc, please do not take anything I have written personally, it was not intended that way. Thank you all for your time on the matter.

    Regards,
    Droid8
     
  28. Jul 13, 2006
  29. wobble33

    wobble33 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    x
    Location:
    uk
    guys

    there is another problem here with micro gaming (viper) ez or clear play bonus accounts where i dont think ANYONE has latched onto yet! now then, say you get £100 bonus for £100 deposit, the wagering requirements are x30 bonus only so £3000 to wager. you go on spring break (this is a 100% game allowed for wagering and just an example). you have done lets say £2500.00 wagering, and have just £500 left to wager. you get the bonus round and hit a £250.00 win. you say right here, if i double this, i have finished this wagering, and now i can cash out. only to find out when you go into cashier the £250.00 double up gamble hasnt counted!):eek2: . BUT IF YOU LOOK IN PLAYCHECK, YOU WILL SEE ITS STILL SAYING YOU HAVE WAGERED £500 ON THAT SPIN:eek2: . now then, if you look in the terms and conditions, there is no mention of doubling up on ANY game doesnt count to clear bonus (except at casino action), they have a line in the terms saying something about doubling up. i found this out to my cost at 1 casino the other day, but i still managed to complete the wagering:) . so really this is a very sly trick off microgaming and the new bonus accounts. i think they want to rewrite there terms very carefully! and also if these microgaming casinos dont get their terms and conditions put right, bryan (cm) is going to be a very busy man.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  30. Jul 13, 2006
  31. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    When EZ just aint that easy

    At first glance, I thought that the player must be wrong since he hadnt met the full WRs. However, when I read the Ts and Cs at Golden reef, I began to think differently. There are supposed to be 2 separate accounts, one a cash balance account and the other a bonus account. You can only use your bonus balance when you have emptied your cash account. In addition, the bonus cannot be withdrawn but funds can be transferred to the cash balance as a result of meeting playthrough requirements. Does this not mean that any bonus remaining in the bonus account is uncashable while the bonus transferred has in itself met the playthrough and together with the remaining cash balance, can be withdrawn at any time. Why should there be playthrough requirements for bonuses transferred to the cash account and another set of WRs for the total bonus itself? Seems conflicting to me.

    I believe that the EZ Bonus system was designed to ensure that bonuses are not that easily abused. The player would have to deplete his whole cash balance to be able to use the bonus for wagering and even then the funds transferred from the bonus itself would have to meet playthrough and sent to the cash balnce account in increments. Once a withdrawal is initiated, the bonus balance will be reset to zero. I cannot honestly see how this can be viewed as 'bonus abuse' if that is what Golden Reef is thinking of.
     
  32. Jul 13, 2006
  33. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    Droid8 ....

    Have you tried to contact the casino rep here on the forum? At the top of this page where you are now, you will see a link for Casino Contacts. ... http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showgroups.php
    When you get there, scroll down just a wee bit and look for "Casino Action". PM the rep with pertinent details, and perhaps they can at least find out what's up with your account.

    P.S. ... Do I have the right casino group in mind, everyone? If not, please correct me. There have been so many changes it makes my brain ache to try and keep up with which casino went where....
     
  34. Jul 13, 2006
  35. Droid8

    Droid8 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Director
    Location:
    Whitchurch, U.K.
    Hi,

    Yes I have contacted the casino action rep on this forum. He responded straight away and told me he had forwarded the details on to the Golden Reef manager and that I would get a response. I'll wait for that response until after the weekend and then put in a complaint to ecogra if I don't hear anything.

    :thumbsup: Thanks again to everyone adding to this thread.

    D8
     
  36. Jul 13, 2006
  37. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I think the casino is wrong & the player is right.
    You should be able to withdraw your cash, as clearly stated in the T&C's.

    If the rep does not sort the problem then Pitch a Bitch with Bryan.

    Whatever you do, DO NOT play any more at this casino until this is resolved.
    (Sorry to state the obvious! ;) )
     
  38. Jul 13, 2006
  39. Droid8

    Droid8 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Director
    Location:
    Whitchurch, U.K.
    :oops: Oh dear, too late for that.

    I wanted a gamble yesterday and played a few slots.

    Is this likely to cause me a lot of trouble???

    Like I've said I am completely new to all this.

    Cheers for the heads up on that though.

    D8
     

Share This Page