Golden Reef - Cash in request refunded, struggling to get an explanation.

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
As long as they've returned the bonus that was forfeited as the time of the withdrawal then they have complied with their T&Cs.

It is a fair solution IMO.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
However, the terms do state that you must meet the full wagering requirements before a withdrawal is to be approved. I realise that it also said that you can cashin at anytime but the terms and conditions should be complied with in full and not with just based on one point.
It does state that you must meet requirements before cashing out under the EZ Bonus terms for it directs you back and states please read the General T&C's for ANY bonus before the EZ bonus comes into play. I did a lot of seaching and this exactly what I came up with when reading all the T&C's. When you pick and choose the terms you want to understand, rely on and want implemented , it works to the players benefit, but when taken in the whole, it states exactly what the casino has said. Terms and conditions MUST be met, which I stated earlier and was told in no uncertain terms that :
However you are obviously an experienced on line gambler, I am not.
Which I found amusing..


In my opinion, they have been more than kind in allowing you to continue to play and even more generous in giving you back the bonus money when you broke the T&C's and it was your misunderstanding.
It is a fair solution IMO.
I agree.
 

bossplayer

Dormant account
Joined
May 22, 2006
Location
Kansas
what crap

EZ was invented for a reason, this is NOT it.

They are giving you a bonus with no wagering requirement.... this is a falsehood unless they waited for you to finish the wagering on the original bonus. Only then would you not have to risk that money with further wagering due to your signup bonus still being in the mix.

Ask them to send your no wagering requirement bonus to your neteller account in your email.
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
silcnlayc said:
In my opinion, they have been more than kind in allowing you to continue to play and even more generous in giving you back the bonus money when you broke the T&C's and it was your misunderstanding. I agree.

Sorry but that's nonsense - the terms clearly stated that if a player made a withdrawal prior to meeting the WR then the withdrawn amount AND forfeited bonus would be returned to the account.

They had no right whatsoever to keep the bonus yet force the player to fullfill the wagering for it. One or the other, not both.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I believe player is entitled to misunderstanding

I, an experienced player, understood the new EZBonus to allow withdrawal at any time with forfeiture of any unearned bonus. Since the bonus system here is advertised as this same Microgaming system, why is it different here?
I just played at Ruby Fortune under the very same system, and sacrificed the remnant #20 bonus by withdrawing - I was paid without quibble.

If Golden Reef are altering the Microgaming system (I thought operators were not able to tweak MG software?!), they should make this very clear at the top of the terms.
Casino Action have been criticised by me in the past for failing to keep websites up to date, and not even correcting this when informed of the problem. The worst cases were last year when they changed the rules almost monthly, and at one time had 3 DIFFERENT sets of complete rules for the old bonus account up at the same time, but in different areas of the website.
On the withdrawal page, there should be a link to the terms of the new bonus account system, if this does not say that all WR must be completed before withdrawal, and that the bonus sacrifice option does not apply to this group, they should honour the cash-in under the bog-standard Microgaming implementation of EZBonus, and then update the terms for their special exceptions.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Dog's Dinner

I have just checked this on my own account. The withdrawal page says that you can withdraw the cash balance at any time, and lose the bonus. The link has confusing terms. While it states that the playthrough requirement must be met, in other places it states that the player can withdraw their cash balance at any time and lose the bonus.

I also have seen the 50X - this is a joke, 30x brought criticism when this was the Microgaming standard, but this 50x is a complete joke, being almost double the norm for other MG casinos. This 50x is SLOTS!!! all other games have far worse WR, up to 500x for Blackjack and 2500x for Classic Blackjack - despite this, they worry about "Bonus Abuse".

Well, I have been "eating out of their hand" since lulled into a state of pleasure by the Berlin trip, but having just found out what the "other hand" has been up to with EZBonus, I have just bitten it off:D :D

(I could easily have walked straight into this EZBonus trap myself!)

It is NOT the standard EZBonus - they have messed with it!!
Another term also states that new accounts may have their bet limits reduced, so - all that "crap" from other MG casinos that claim they cannot use bet limits down to the level of specific accounts to prevent abuse of bonuses by new players, or that the EZBonus is "standard" and can't be changed for different levels of player or games - you are not trying hard enough!
 

tombomb

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
right here
I had the exact same problem

Dirk Diggler said:
Totally agree with that.

Silcynlayc - that maybe was the case, but now every MG (apart from possibly this group) allow withdrawals of your cash balance whenever. You just lose any bonus money.
They reversed my withdrawal after I zeroed out on the bonus,made another deposit ran it up to $1500 and tried to cash out.I went round and round on "live chat" with the CS rep about "your cash balance may be cashed out at anytime".It seems their policy is to reverse withdrawals hoping youll lose it.Also it takes 5 - 15 minutes between responses on live chat.They f**ked me around for 2 1/2 hrs.Then they authorized the withdrawal and i got it two days later.took my $1300 profit and closed the account.I wont play there again.I advise others to do the same.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
We can withdraw when the EZBonus software lets us, but it will be returned for completing their crazy WR? Ummm... I hate to tell them, that is NOT the way the EZBonus system works. :mad: They've perverted it -- big time. Is there a rep on board so we can all let him/her know that we're abandoning ship?

I don't play at Golden Reef, but I may have some of the other casinos in this sadistic (50x WR on slots?!?!) group installed. (You know I was going to ask this)... Please list the casinos in this group. I'm in an uninstalling mood. :D
 

Macgyver

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Location
North Carolina
Mousey said:
I don't play at Golden Reef, but I may have some of the other casinos in this sadistic (50x WR on slots?!?!) group installed. (You know I was going to ask this)... Please list the casinos in this group. I'm in an uninstalling mood. :D

My records show that Golden Reef operates through the Casino Profit Share program. Other casinos listed through that same program are:

Challenge
Music Hall
Nostalgia
UK Casino Club

Again, I may be a little off here because my records concern bonus offers much more than owners. :thumbsup:
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
Looking at the contact list (I finally found the group) it appears that this is a Casino Action casino. Which includes: Aztec Riches Casino, Challenge Casino, Golden Reef Casino, Music Hall Casino, UK Casino Club, Aztec Riches Poker, Poker Metro. Luckily, I do not have any of these casinos installed.

Good luck all.
 

Droid8

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
Whitchurch, U.K.
Well, after a lot of e-mails to the Golden Reef C/S, I never recieved one response back. It could be my e-mail, but I seem to get messages to everyone else fine. I made sure I had the correct address and even copied it from a private message the rep on the forum sent me. Who knows?!?!?!

They offered me 50 with no wager requirement but obviously it does have a wager requirement on it, as does all the bonus and cash balance in my account.

I accepted the offer, as I didn't have the patience to keep slogging it out with the rep off the CM forum and I need to get my money back so I can play elsewhere. I certainly won't be playing here or at the other casinos in the group in the future.

Thanks to all those who posted and gave advice.

D8
 

Stanford

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
USA
Welcome to the Hotel California

Pinababy69 said:
Okay, someone tell me that they are as confused as I am by that line? That makes absolutely zero sense to me. You can withdraw anytime, but it won't be approved unless you have met the WR in full? So why bother to withdraw then? Doesn't this nullify the whole basis of this new bonus system?

They should adopt "Hotel California" as a them song... "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"

Stanford
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
Droid8,

I'm so sorry you never got another reply from the casino or their rep. Their catch-22 T&C are not clear and, in my mind, deliberately sneaky to make them appear to use the usual EZPay bonus system when they do not. If money shows as withdrawable in this new ez pay software, then it should be withdrawable!

I do wish you had Pitched a Bitch, though I know it really gets tiresome doing all this wrangling for your money.

"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"

Cute, Sanford! :lolup:
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Stanford said:
They should adopt "Hotel California" as a them song... "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"

Stanford


Hi Stanford,

Havent heard from you for a long time. How are things going at the moment?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I'm watching.

I'm watching this with interest.;)

I have been upgraded to Platinum Elite, and we have been invited to Las Vegas in September, which means I get to give Vinoka a piece of my mind IN PERSON!

I will be mentioning this EZBonus issue and the 50x WR. I will also ask why, yet again, a Platinum player finds out about these nasties in the casinomeister forum and not by newsletter or casino mail from the casino.

It might be worth seeing if Neteller Instant payment is blocked by this audit rule, or whether it can bypass their policy of refunding despite clearance from EZBonus.

I doubt I would get this run-around as a Platinum Player (but I could be wrong!), maybe they are being unduly harsh on new sign-ups. Previously, when I have had EZBonus pass a cash-in and had it rejected at audit (audit in Instant Payments), they simply asked me to reverse it ,and they manually cleared the WR so it could be cashed out through Instant Payments.

Having read the terms, they are confusing. It is not at all clear which of the terms is the one to be obeyed, both "you can cash out at any time... and bonus balance is set to zero", and "..will only be approved if the full WR has been met", can't both be true at face value.

If there is a difference between how the sign-up bonus is treated from normal loyalty bonuses there is no mention of this. Seems to me that Platinum Elite players have to wager the bonus 50x on slots, where VIP players at the recently disgraced Jackpot Factory have to wager their bonus a mere 15x, AND can use the option to sacrifice unearned bonus.
 

Droid8

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
Whitchurch, U.K.
Hi all,

Following on from my last post, I finished the wager requirement and finished up to the tune of an extra 150. I do feel that was a little bit of justice to be quite honest:D. I have requested my cash out and we shall see what happens from here. Surely it must be authorised this time?!?!?!?

I hear what you're saying mousey, maybe I should have pitched a bitch. I was starting to think though, after they refunded my bonus and I posted so on here, that the consensus was that it was a fair solution, though maybe overall people didn't think that and I should have waited a little longer for responses.

Anyway at least I was lucky, but I certainly won't be re-depositing there again.

D8:thumbsup:

Vinylweatherman : Who is Vionka??? Excuse my ignorance, I'm a newbie!!!
 

Stanford

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
USA
Hi Chuchu

chuchu59 said:
Hi Stanford,

Havent heard from you for a long time. How are things going at the moment?

Things are going well. I see some things have not changed in my absense. Golden Reef has been delaying payouts for as long as I can remember.

Hopefully, they are not on anyone's recommended list.

Hope things are going well for you.

Stanford
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Vinoka

Droid8 said:
Hi all,

Following on from my last post, I finished the wager requirement and finished up to the tune of an extra 150. I do feel that was a little bit of justice to be quite honest:D. I have requested my cash out and we shall see what happens from here. Surely it must be authorised this time?!?!?!?

I hear what you're saying mousey, maybe I should have pitched a bitch. I was starting to think though, after they refunded my bonus and I posted so on here, that the consensus was that it was a fair solution, though maybe overall people didn't think that and I should have waited a little longer for responses.

Anyway at least I was lucky, but I certainly won't be re-depositing there again.

D8:thumbsup:

Vinylweatherman : Who is Vionka??? Excuse my ignorance, I'm a newbie!!!

Vinoka is the VIP services manager, a rung or two above the general CS. I have been corresponding with Vinoka for a while, on subjects as diverse as the World Cup to botched promotions and buggy cash-out procedures.
The point I will be raising is about this EZBonus, players are supposed to be able to withdraw at any time, and any remaining bonus will be deducted, or they can play on and win the entire amount. Other MG casinos use it the way MG intended, which was to do away with arguments about WR and excluded games. Golden Reef seem to be advertising EZBonus, but are not implementing it the way that was intended. It seems the software is working as intended by MG, and they have to manually bodge it to prevent a withdrawal at approval. I also want to know when 30x became 50x. It was 30x only a while ago when it was introduced, and is now 50x, but I don't remember seeing this announced, but many far less important things HAVE been announced to players by E-mail and/or message of the day.

I have worked out that even at 30x on slots, the bonus has a negative expected value, at 50x there is no chance. They have also savagely cut the prizes in the remaining tournaments (Munchkin Monday and Thursday Thunder), by half, and this prize must also be wagered 50x on slots.
There is virtually no value left in these casinos even for me as Platinum VIP, other than an annual visit to Vegas (provided they keep this up).
The only tournament that might still be worth playing are the likes of the World Cup draw, where entries are earned by depositing and wagering it through only once. With Neteller instant payments it is possible for a VIP to use the SAME $2500 or so in all 5 casinos each DAY for maximum entries (deposit, wager 1x for entries, withdraw by Neteller Instant, and move to next one).
The WR for a VIP at All Slots is a mere 15x in comparison, and Palace Group use the standard 30x and allow full rights to withdraw early and lose the remaining bonus.
 

balo500

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Location
US
Why is Goldnreef on Casinomeister accredited casino list?

With all these issues, why is goldenreef casino still on the accredited casino list? What is going on? This is kind of misleading.

Thanks.
 

jerrylee

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Location
Playa del Vaquero (I wish)
I ended up on 513 including the bonus. I then withdrew my cash balance (423) as I was happy with my winnings.
However this 423 has been returned to my account since and the bonus has gone.

Haven't read the whole thread but before crying foul, notice that the cash out of 423 is not 513 - 100 bonus, but 10 more.
So I think the casino voided this withdrawal since WR not met and no part of bonus cashable.
If OP cashes out for 413, will it go through?
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
Haven't read the whole thread but before crying foul, notice that the cash out of £423 is not £513 - £100 bonus, but £10 more.
So I think the casino voided this withdrawal since WR not met and no part of bonus cashable.
If OP cashes out for £413, will it go through?
I haven't read through the whole thread either, but the Casino Profit Share / Casino Action group requires players to complete wagering requirements on bonuses, unlike standard Clearplays where winnings can be cashed out without meeting the playthrough. The player can forfeit the bonus prior to beginning playthrough by calling support.

Having bonuses that are automatically credited, must be played through, and have high wagering requirements is a poor system that is certain to lead to problems. They should either not credit the bonus automatically (for example have a form submission) or allow players to cash out winnings without meeting the playthrough.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Vinoka

Post Las Vegas,
Bit of a disaster, the hotel was undergoing refurbishment and the staff were worse than Casino Rewards CS on a bad day:D

Staff either knew nothing about the event, nor could they tell me which bar we were supposed to meet up at. They also seemed unable to count, they said only two bars existed, and I searched FOUR and still didn't find them! The Golf was lost due to staff not knowing where the "taxi rank" was, directing me instead to the opposite end of a half mile internal road (with a bend in it!).
Vinoka did NOT escape the "earful" though, as I was able to catch up with them on Saturday for the dinner and helicopter ride.

I was told that SOME changes were to be made.

1) A tweak to lower WR (possibly back to 30x), but I have not seen this yet.

2) Change to loyalty programme due to an exploit I mentioned, and demonstrated:D :D

3) Changes to tournaments (the prizes of the existing two have been increased).

4) Further competitions will be run following the World Cup and Car or Cash promotions. (No date yet available for the next one). No, I didn't win the car as well:D


The explanation for the tight WR was that they were hit very heavily by the "bonus whores" and introduced the rules as a deterrent to them opening accounts just for the initial bonus.


There is still this problem with the EZBonus, and their rules that all WR must be met to withdraw. Presumably this is to combat the technique of placing a big bet with D+B and cashing out upon winning. (This technique does work mathematically, and is a valid concern).

Another suggestion has been enacted, they now have a "meet the team" photo on the website, not up to 32Red level mind, but it's a start. Phone support is being introduced for VIP players. It is a case of a VIP requesting access, and they may be given the number. Hopefully, phone support will be more widely available as occasionally the E-mail and live chat system break down or clog up.
 
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