Forum ass-clowns and the definition of fraud

[questa]

the OP burned his chances with us because of his repeated Forum Rules violations regarding multiple accounts AND because he was previously found to be a fraudster

He defrauded a previous casino? Why was he not banned at the time?

 

[visaria]

Sounds like fraud and theft to me. Not talking about the OP, I'm talking about the casino. Why would you take in money via Moneybookers and then (sounds like they didn't actually even try) attempt to pay winnings to a bank account? Why not just pay it back to the Moneybookers account?

Very fishy.

Avoid casinosieger at all costs.

 

[maxd]

I am not assuming anything, I have based what I have said here on the OP's original first post. ... It just does not stack up.

Again with "OP said" stuff. THE OP IS A FRAUDSTER!!! WTF cares what he says why would anyone believe it anyway? Besides which -- as previously mentioned -- there's more to this than you can or will know. There were multiple depositing accounts involved, etc etc. If you want to have access to such details so you can speak from an informed position as opposed to guesses and fraudster info that you've been using so far then either send your resume to Bryan and suggest he fire me and hire you OR start your own complaints service and fill your boots. The point is that there is lots of PAB info that has not nor will it ever be shared, it's not the function of the PAB process to gather your opinions, and it's not a committee process. Bryan has the case details, he looked at the case and dropped the axe on the OP (as would have I), and if you want to question his decisions then I suggest you PM him with same. BS speculations here on the forums regarding a case which you have no real information on is just that, BS. Enough already!

If the OP has submitted false identity documents, bogus bank details & tried to use casinomeister in order to get a payout previously through such practice & this was a clear repeated attempt then it is quite damning ....

So if he was a fraudster in some other way previously then we should entertain his claims to be innocent now? No, he's previously been nailed as a fraudster, he's broken a handful of Casinomeister Posting Rules -- repeatedly -- and been banned from the site for it. End of story. He's dead to us and so should he be. Again, start your own site and make the rules. Otherwise please respect ours.

He defrauded a previous casino? Why was he not banned at the time?

FFS! Read what has been posted! He was caught and he was banned. He re-registered, slipped under our radar and did his latest dirt here on the forums. This has all already been explained.

And you know what, this is getting really tiresome. I've explained our position as clearly and as best I can. Obviously some of you would rather not see the point of what's been said here. Obviously some of you disagree. Fair enough, but take it elsewhere (for the reasons previously given).

Thread closed. If anyone feels inclined to spin this off into a new thread be aware that doing so will be considered a Forum Rules violation -- cross-posting, personal agenda, PITA, etc -- and dealt with accordingly.

If you have something you think needs to be added here then contact me or Bryan and state your case.

 

[The Dude]

I think a number of people are getting some things confused here. When we are talking about "fraud" and that the OP is a "fraudster", this is what we (especially me) are defining:

Fraud - fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual. That definition is good enough for me.

Let's focus on personal gain - he exploited this forum using it as a blackmailing device in order to make casinos kowtow to his needs. Damaging another person? Well, you can be assured that a forum that condones or turns a blind eye to this behavior will have its reputation damaged probably beyond repair. I have a zero tolerance towards fraud. You can split hairs on the term "fraud" and how it is defined until the cows come home. I really don't care - he is a liar and deceived every single member here. You lie to me - game over.

Steffigraff77 had a minimum of two other banned accounts in this forum. Mudnav and bash_2357. This is confirmed not only by matching IP addresses, but by matching email addresses and our vBulletin software that tracks cookies, (this is covered in our legal section and forum rules).

Mudnav was being accused of having multi casino accounts here, and I asked him whether or not he was "sharing" his computer with some one else - this was met with silence. I already knew that he was logging in the forum with another account (bash_2357) - another "member" who had issues being accused of being a "fraudster" at one time or another.

A few of you might remember that a few years ago this bash dude was the unlucky bloke who had his winnings removed from Neteller by the request of Prime Casino. Not that this had anything to do with multi-accounting (it was a non-fulfilled wagering requirement issue), but it set a pattern. That thread is here if you feel it necessary to waste some time. You can check out this guy's posting history and it's pretty much the same redundant stuff; getting stiffed by casinos, getting the runaround with ID docs, blah blah etc.

When we discovered that Mudnav and bash_2357 were one and the same, these two accounts were closed with the message to "contact me". Bash emailed me asking "why i have been banned from the CM website?" I told him that he was sharing his computer with another account, and that it was never cleared through us. He was using these accounts to complain about casinos and whatnot, and for us to allow these sort of bogus accounts to go unchecked dilutes the integrity of the site.

I never heard back from him again - that was December of 2008.

Fast forward a few months to May 2009 when Steffigraff77 signed up. I thought it was an odd user name for a guy, but different strokes for different folks I guess. His third post was a claim that his account was hacked:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/my-account-got-hijacked.32265/

Again, a pattern is set. Not that it had anything to do with multi-accounting, but he continued to post over the next few years the same redundant problematic casino issues as his former accounts. He survived undetected until now.

When this current issue popped up, I didn't think much of it until I reviewed his PAB (Max had already been dealing with it for a week or two). I noticed the email address that steffi used for the casino - it was the same that he used with his bash_2357 account. I immediately banned his account and shit-canned his PAB.

I couldn't care less whether or not this player was done wrong by the casino, or if the casino is in the right - whether or not he has provided faked ID docs, or if he is as legit as the Queen of England. I don't give a toss. What I know for a fact is that he lied to me - and that he violated the forum rules, and he has committed fraud against this forum.

I noticed that there is the usual "panties in a twist" at BB from the usual misanthropists. For the record, former member Kodi had no less than four accounts in this forum:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

You can waste your time and read the rubbish that is produced from these accounts, and compare notes. Casino operators may want to take note as well. I for one have many better things to do. I'm sure you do too.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This has cleared things up.

Until now, the impression has been that the PAB went in favour of the casino. The OP has also been making this claim elsewhere (that Max found in favour of the casino), whereas it now seems that the PAB was halted due to serious violations of forum rules, and was not decided in favour of either party, meaning the casino wins by default. The OP is also claiming that it was the discovery of a couple of previous forum accounts that he had "hardly used" that had made all the difference.

The other problem is that the casino itself looks like a rogue that has managed to pull the wool over the eyes of both Max and CM.

This wasn't helped when the rep for "Grand Duke" butted in with this:-

KYC documents failed



The player failed to supply in due time the notary certified identification documents, the documents he delivered have failed the internal fraud scrutinity. The subject has also been discussed with Max and Bryan. Therefore we have decided to close the account of the player and refund his initial deposit.


Grand Duke Casino

This made me wonder why Grand Duke (a known rogue pit resident) had this level of detail for an issue involving Casinoseiger, a totally different casino based in a completely different jurisdiction.

If the two are related, then Casinoseiger is likely to be pulling the same stunts as Grand Duke. The rep never came back to answer the question as to why he was making the "official statement" on the issue of the OP failing KYC. It also places a question mark over the integrity of the evidence coming from the casino during the PAB.

This will be something to remember should a forum member not previously busted for fraud encounter the need to PAB against Casinoseiger.


As for the industry, it seems the notary system they rely on has been compromised in some way, even though this didn't get past casinoseiger. The OP has named the notary they used, and with this incident has demonstrated that at best notaries can be fooled, and this isn't just an issue for casinos, it's one of grave importance for many other industries where notaries are relied upon to verify documents related to very high value transactions. At worst, he has revealed a "bent" notary that other fraudsters may also be using.

The current weakness is that casinos tell players to find a notary, which could be anyone legally able to perform the task. Instead, the industry should consider drawing up a list of notaries that they have vetted, and are prepared to trust with regard to player KYC issues, and get players to select on from this list with the guarantee that the casino industry already has a working relationship with them, and that they know what is wanted by the industry when notarising a players' documents.

I have also discovered that in the UK, major branches of the post office can notarise documents, a service actually classed as "making a certified true copy" of an original document such as a passport or driving license. This is what most casinos are really after when they say "get it notarised", and the fee at the post office is a mere £7.15, not the £75 or £100+ that others are encountering when going to the legal firms for the service.

 

[topoor]

It was stated by Max that this player had committed fraud against the casino. I don't see any evidence of that. I also don't see any evidence of fake documents or a notary being fooled.

I trust this site, however I find it very disappointing to see the word fraudster bandied about for opening a second forum account. This is to my mind belittling to serious issues of fraud and effectively trivialising what is a crime.

It may be against forum rules and should be but call this fraud and you run the risk of turning this site into a laughing stock.

I've asked this question before and it wasn't answered and as a potential customer of casino seiger I would like it to be; what has the notary said?

 

[Nifty29]

Quote from Max:

Again with "OP said" stuff. THE OP IS A FRAUDSTER!!! WTF cares what he says why would anyone believe it anyway? Besides which -- as previously mentioned -- there's more to this than you can or will know. There were multiple depositing accounts involved, etc etc. If you want to have access to such details so you can speak from an informed position as opposed to guesses and fraudster info that you've been using so far then either send your resume to Bryan and suggest he fire me and hire you OR start your own complaints service and fill your boots. The point is that there is lots of PAB info that has not nor will it ever be shared, it's not the function of the PAB process to gather your opinions, and it's not a committee process.
Bryan has the case details, he looked at the case and dropped the axe on the OP (as would have I), and if you want to question his decisions then I suggest you PM him with same. BS speculations here on the forums regarding a case which you have no real information on is just that, BS. Enough already

@topoor and VWM

Which parts of this paragraph...in particular the bolded parts...are you having trouble reading and comprehending?

NEITHER of you KNOW ALL THE FACTS. You're both happy to accept everything the OP says as gospel, but you don't seem to trust a word Max or Bryan says. Do you think they came down in the last shower???

FFS people. If you aren't prepared to take the word of Max and Bryan who have SEEN ALL THE EVIDENCE, then WTF are you DOING HERE at CM???

Total BS assumptions like in the last few posts just give the usual fraudster-defenders more fuel to sprout their "all casinos are evil" nonsense. (I say "fraudster-defenders" because it is almost always the same members who cry foul when a fraudster gets caught out....makes you wonder why doesn't it?).

I now see the reason why Max closed the thread initially.

VWM - you should know better. When are you going to accept that you DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING?

 

[topoor]

All of it Nifty. Has the notary been contacted?

 

[questa]

The problem is, none of this answers the question of whether the casino is trustworthy - did they rob a player because they didn't want to pay, or did they have genuine reasons. It's a shame the PAB wasn't followed through fully, as now we cannot really know the answer. Anyone googling them will come here and avoid the casino, so in the end everyone is a loser here - the player, the casino, the community.

 

[Nifty29]

All of it Nifty. Has the notary been contacted?

Since your comprehension skills are, by your own admission, poor....here is a clue:

I couldn't care less whether or not this player was done wrong by the casino, or if the casino is in the right - whether or not he has provided faked ID docs, or if he is as legit as the Queen of England. I don't give a toss. What I know for a fact is that he lied to me - and that he violated the forum rules, and he has committed fraud against this forum.

A quote from CM himself.

The OP might be totally innocent. Judging by his past, I would say he most like is NOT....but hey I don't have ALL the facts.

Bottom line...the OP gave up his right to a PAB when it was discovered he is a FRAUDSTER. What he does now....well I don't give a rat's arse and I'm sure a lot of others don't either.

If you want to contact him and take up his cause...go for it Perry Mason. NO evidence gathered during the PAB process is going to be shared with YOU or anyone else, so get over it.

Why don't YOU contact the notary Oh, and BTW, if the OP had multiple accounts etc or other information that didn't match, or matched other accounts, all the notaries in the World won't help him. If you have 5 accounts, and can prove one of them, it doesn't mean you get paid LOL.

 

[questa]

This has cleared things up.

Until now, the impression has been that the PAB went in favour of the casino. The OP has also been making this claim elsewhere (that Max found in favour of the casino), whereas it now seems that the PAB was halted due to serious violations of forum rules, and was not decided in favour of either party, meaning the casino wins by default. The OP is also claiming that it was the discovery of a couple of previous forum accounts that he had "hardly used" that had made all the difference.

The other problem is that the casino itself looks like a rogue that has managed to pull the wool over the eyes of both Max and CM.

This wasn't helped when the rep for "Grand Duke" butted in with this:-




This made me wonder why Grand Duke (a known rogue pit resident) had this level of detail for an issue involving Casinoseiger, a totally different casino based in a completely different jurisdiction.

If the two are related, then Casinoseiger is likely to be pulling the same stunts as Grand Duke. The rep never came back to answer the question as to why he was making the "official statement" on the issue of the OP failing KYC. It also places a question mark over the integrity of the evidence coming from the casino during the PAB.

This will be something to remember should a forum member not previously busted for fraud encounter the need to PAB against Casinoseiger.


As for the industry, it seems the notary system they rely on has been compromised in some way, even though this didn't get past casinoseiger. The OP has named the notary they used, and with this incident has demonstrated that at best notaries can be fooled, and this isn't just an issue for casinos, it's one of grave importance for many other industries where notaries are relied upon to verify documents related to very high value transactions. At worst, he has revealed a "bent" notary that other fraudsters may also be using.

The current weakness is that casinos tell players to find a notary, which could be anyone legally able to perform the task. Instead, the industry should consider drawing up a list of notaries that they have vetted, and are prepared to trust with regard to player KYC issues, and get players to select on from this list with the guarantee that the casino industry already has a working relationship with them, and that they know what is wanted by the industry when notarising a players' documents.

I have also discovered that in the UK, major branches of the post office can notarise documents, a service actually classed as "making a certified true copy" of an original document such as a passport or driving license. This is what most casinos are really after when they say "get it notarised", and the fee at the post office is a mere £7.15, not the £75 or £100+ that others are encountering when going to the legal firms for the service.

My understanding is that casinosieger is run by an ex-employee of grand duke with a list of their players. This if true should be a big red flag, and maybe even reason for them to be rogued at the outset?

 

[topoor]

Since your comprehension skills are, by your own admission, poor....here is a clue:

I couldn't care less whether or not this player was done wrong by the casino, or if the casino is in the right - whether or not he has provided faked ID docs, or if he is as legit as the Queen of England. I don't give a toss. What I know for a fact is that he lied to me - and that he violated the forum rules, and he has committed fraud against this forum.

A quote from CM himself.

The OP might be totally innocent. Judging by his past, I would say he most like is NOT....but hey I don't have ALL the facts.

Bottom line...the OP gave up his right to a PAB when it was discovered he is a FRAUDSTER. What he does now....well I don't give a rat's arse and I'm sure a lot of others don't either.

If you want to contact him and take up his cause...go for it Perry Mason. NO evidence gathered during the PAB process is going to be shared with YOU or anyone else, so get over it.

Why don't YOU contact the notary Oh, and BTW, if the OP had multiple accounts etc or other information that didn't match, or matched other accounts, all the notaries in the World won't help him. If you have 5 accounts, and can prove one of them, it doesn't mean you get paid LOL.

Please don't insult me again. There is no admission that my skills are poor. Are you gay? Your forum name means fag which is another word for homosexual. Not nice to play on names is it.

The notary is registered with The Law Society and register of notaries if they are fake it is a very serious issue. This issue has gone beyond the PAB.

It is also important to ascertain the validity of the casinos claims for all players. Cm does not like tolerate fraud from players or casino.

 

[Nifty29]

Please don't insult me again. There is no admission that my skills are poor. Are you gay? Your forum name means fag which is another word for homosexual. Not nice to play on names is it.

The notary is registered with The Law Society and register of notaries if they are fake it is a very serious issue. This issue has gone beyond the PAB.

It is also important to ascertain the validity of the casinos claims for all players. Cm does not like tolerate fraud from players or casino.

I said:

Which parts of this paragraph...in particular the bolded parts...are you having trouble reading and comprehending?

You replied:

All of it Nifty.

Sorry, but you DID admit you're having trouble reading and comprehending.


What makes you think being called "Gay" would be an insult? Sorry, but I don't have time for Homophobes...especially childish ones.

 

[topoor]

Having trouble comprehending doesn't mean I can't read. It means I find it difficult to understand what I'm reading because it doesn't make sense. A bit like your posts.

So I'm a child and a homophobe now? Well done.

I didn't say being gay was an insult. Seems like your comprehension could do with some help if anyone's could.

 

[The Viking]

Please don't insult me again. There is no admission that my skills are poor. Are you gay? Your forum name means fag which is another word for homosexual. Not nice to play on names is it..

Like Nifty said why is a gay name an insult, im not gay but i read thos lines as a racism remarks.

 

[topoor]

Hmmmm. Racist now?

I asked if he was gay because his name means homosexual. Are you Danish? Is that racist?

 

[Nifty29]

Having trouble comprehending doesn't mean I can't read. It means I find it difficult to understand what I'm reading because it doesn't make sense. A bit like your posts.

So I'm a child and a homophobe now? Well done.

I didn't say being gay was an insult. Seems like your comprehension could do with some help if anyone's could.

No.

Anyone would point out that someone's username means "fag" in some language and then mention that it means "Gay" and ask, as a result, if that person was Gay. It's a perfectly normal response from a non-homophobic person.

You absolutely were attempting to insult me by suggesting I am Gay. At least stand by your words and don't try and worm your way out of it....it was what it was.

Anyhow, I am not derailing any more.

This is me placing you on "Ignore":

...

P.S.

I said NOTHING about topoors username? WTH? Where did I even mention it?

I said their comprehension/reading was POOR because I asked if what they didn't read and comprehend and they said "All of it".

Just wanted to clear that up...so there was NO need to make remarks about my name.

 

[topoor]

There are a lot easier and clearer ways to insult you Nifty given the abuse you've laid down to people on this forum without resorting to homophobia.

I didn't like the way you tried to use my name against me and I picked an obvious play on your name to show you that. I apologise to the forum if it came across as offensive however the point was not to negatively describe homosexuals but to point point out that I shouldn't be speculating on anything by someone's name.

 

[topoor]

"I said NOTHING about topoors username? WTH? Where did I even mention it?

I said their comprehension/reading was POOR because I asked if what they didn't read and comprehend and they said "All of it".

Just wanted to clear that up...so there was NO need to make remarks about my name."

Now who is attempting to worm out of something?

 

[Jufo]

After reading all the material presented by Bryan it's still debatable to me whether the OP fits the definition of a fraudster. Apart from a shared IP issue five years ago most of the OPs history seems to relate to casinos ripping him off one way or another. To me his history looks like the one of an unlucky advantage player, not really that of a fraudster. I hope people are still able to make a clear distinction between these two. He has also used the current forum handle for the last four years so the claim that he creates new forum accounts on the fly to push his agenda doesn't seem accurate either.

But even if we agree that yes, the OP is a fraudster, some undeserved, libelous claims have been made here towards the legiticimaty of a third, completely innocent party - the notary whose services this person used. It is now looking like the notary indeed is a legitimate, publicly listed one and the notarized documents are authentic. It seems that no action was made by maxd or Casino Sieger to actually verify the authenticity of this notary, but rather claim that the notary seal must be fake. If I happened to be this notary, I would consider such statements questioning my expertise rather libelous.

I completely agree that if the OP is found to have a suspicious past then CM has every right to flat out reject his PAB application. But making accusations that the notary seal is not authentic without even making any effort to verify this claim is out of order. Also, rejected PAB application doesn't mean that the casino has won the case - it's still open - so perhaps Bryan or maxd should inform Casinosieger that they shouldn't be making statements like "CM found the case in our favour".

 

[visaria]

What is fraud to the reasonable man? Is it:

A) Having two chat forum accounts

B) a casino refusing to pay out to a winning punter

Pretty obvious surely.

 

[Nifty29]

What is fraud to the reasonable man? Is it:

A) Having two chat forum accounts

B) a casino refusing to pay out to a winning punter

Pretty obvious surely.

A) If it's deliberate...and this was and it was more than two...then it is deception = fraud

B) If the player concerned cannot verify their identity properly, or they have multiple accounts...then it is deception = fraud.


You're totally ignoring any and all FACTS revealed by those who have actually SEEN the evidence, and making it a case of "the poor innocent player being ripped off by the big bad casino".

Who knows? Maybe the casino IS dodgy....but NOTHING presented here by those who KNOW the facts (I.e. nobody apart from Max and Bryan) suggests that the casino is denying winnings for no reason, nor that the player is innocent and has done nothing wrong.

Some of you seem/like to think that Max et al just take the casinos word for everything. Sorry folks, but they don't. Many times I have seen them reject "evidence" from operators due to them smelling BS and/or rogue behaviour. Still, that falls into the realm of FACTS, which some are ignoring because it interferes with their own agendas.

Jufo....have you seen the documents, identified the Notary, and contacted them? Sounds like you have. Perhaps you could share all the information you have that we don't.

At the end of the day, you can present fake ID to a Notary. Unless they are trained in all types of documentary fraud (and I know some and they are NOT), then they will not be able to spot them. The JPs over here (Notaries) and Commissioners for taking Affidavits that I know personally will ask when you present your documents "Are you this person" or "Is this a true copy" etc (depending on circumstances) and, if you answer yes, they stamp and certify your documents etc. They do not launch an investigation into their validity. So, a fraudster (like the OP perhaps) could have presented fake ID to the Notary and had it certified...they are certifying that the copy is identical to the original...that's all. If the casino finds discrepancies between the Notarized ID and the account information, then why would they pay?

I don't know the precise details....the above is just a possibility..and that's my point I.e. that NONE of us members KNOWS what went on. The reason we don't is because the OP is/was a proven FRAUDSTER here at CM over several years. People like this don't deserve to receive assistance IMO. I wouldn't pee on them if they were on fire. The OP has other complaint avenues to pursue....so lets see if they do it. My bet is that they won't bother, as they know they've been sprung....although I kinda hope they try their luck at the other site that allows ALL evidence to be aired in public.

 

[topoor]

I would suspect a notary whose job it is to certify documents would be better placed to identify fake documents they see in the flesh than a foreign casino that can only examine a scan.

FYI I've called the notary today and am currently waiting for a response although their office has confirmed to me that no one from casino seiger or casino meister has contacted them.

 

[Cleveland]

Fairly simple. The OP was banned for one reason or another from here. Game over. You don't then open up another account (which was also banned for one reason or another). Then we get here where a new account is opened up? You're breaking major forum rules, you were banned and keep sneaking back in without asking permission, so no any person with half a brain can't trust you.

The proper way to handle this if you were a person full of ethics, morals, or whatever, would have been to contact the site admin, and request a lift on the ban or permission to open a new account. Or open the new account and then shoot a message to the admin explaining yourself and requesting the account be allowed.

You don't get fired from work and create a new identity then say I'm a trust worthy employee. Clearly I can't trust you as you have been fired for one reason or another before, and you snuck in my back door three times.

Clearly the case couldn't move forward as the process has rules in place. They adhere to the rules to uphold the integrity of the process. Many criminals get away daily when people fail to follow the legal process that is written out clearly in black and white. News at 11. Time to move on imo.

 

[Nifty29]

Sorry Jufo. Another question.

Where does it state in this thread that the Notary seal is not genuine/faked/altered whatever?

Did the casino say that outright?

FYI, Max WAS just about to find in favour of the casino. Bryan discovered the existing fraudulent behaviour at the forum (SEVERAL accounts BTW not just one...whether he used one of them for a few years is immaterial), and cancelled the PAB altogether. So, your statement about the PAB not arriving at a conclusion is not entirely correct.

As I said, just because a document (or a copy thereof) is notarized doesn't mean it is 100% genuine, and does not mean that the person presenting them is the person described in the document without any doubt. Notaries don't have a squad of detectives and forensic experts to assess every document that they see.

You're also forgetting that there were other documents asked for by Max and the casino and the OP refused to provide them. Red flag right there.

Anyway, if you could provide all that extra evidence that you obviously have that would be awesome.

 

[Cleveland]

What is fraud to the reasonable man? Is it:

A) Having two chat forum accounts (both banned, and then opening a new one against forum rules).

B) a casino refusing to pay out to a winning punter *which happens to be a case we are lacking evidence on*

Pretty obvious surely.

Fixed the above for you pimpin.

 

[asadzareef89]

Wasn't this thread closed yesterday by Max?

Come on people I don't think Max or Bryan would do it wrong, they are way more experienced in handling cases like this and we should take their word for it. Don't forget he got him his 1300 winnings back in 2009 so why wouldn't he do the same if it was a legit PAB claim?

So stop wasting your time on this as its clear he tried cheating the PAB system 3 times, remember if Max don't ban these people and put them straight it just puts extra wait on him which means people with legit PAB's might have to wait a bit longer

I don't even think personally max should have given an explanation in this case

 

[questa]

I think a PAB should leave you with a clear feeling of whether a casino is safe to play at or not, and this one certainly does not do that. I can't think of any others that left me feeling like that

 

[Przecinek]

As others have noted it's CM's forum and essentially his PAB service. I am actually happy that this thread got reopened and CM decided to shed some info as to what happened 4 years ago.

I suspect that OP is more that just advantage player, but that in this case his wins are legitimate. After all casinosieger.com is a small and unknown brand. I for one, never heard of them before. Therefore there is no 'bent' notary or anything, everything is legit and this is why OP is pushing so hard since he knows he is 100% in the clear (in this particular case let me add again).

Bottom line is, I can see CM and Max reasoning, but I sure as hell won't touch casinosieger.com after reading this thread. If they think they have 'won' this case then they must be delusional.

You can't really trust casinos on face value (this is a general remark). Here are examples just from the top of my head.
Betfair (former accredited, now rogued): Lied and changed secretly changed terms&conditions retroactively affecting players. Confronted with screenshots and old cashed t&c, they change their story
Betfred: Similar case, lied by changing retroactively terms and adding Canada as excluded. Confronted with old cashed t&c, they switch to autoplay accusation.
Casino Club: Fake bot accusations, confronted with facts decided to pay.
Lucky Nugget: Same problems with t&c change. Confirmed lying.
Purple Lounge, Plum casino etc: Lying about technical issues to cover up cashflow problems or something along those lines.

So it's pretty obvious casinos are used to throwing accusations. If they get caught (which doesn't happen to often) they will retract, blame the help file or whatever, admin there was some software error and that's it. I won't trust one word that comes rogued Grand Duke representative.

 

[The Dude]

After reading all the material presented by Bryan it's still debatable to me whether the OP fits the definition of a fraudster...

No, it's not debatable. The guy had no less than three forum accounts - two of these were already banned. Please reread my earlier statement and you should be able to figure this out.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/forum-ass-clowns-and-the-definition-of-fraud.58408/

But even if we agree that yes, the OP is a fraudster, some undeserved, libelous claims have been made here towards the legiticimaty of a third, completely innocent party - the notary whose services this person used. It is now looking like the notary indeed is a legitimate, publicly listed one and the notarized documents are authentic. It seems that no action was made by maxd or Casino Sieger to actually verify the authenticity of this notary, but rather claim that the notary seal must be fake. If I happened to be this notary, I would consider such statements questioning my expertise rather libelous....But making accusations that the notary seal is not authentic without even making any effort to verify this claim is out of order...

That's a load of BS. No one is libeling anyone here. The only libelous statements being made are being made elsewhere - and not against the notary. As I mentioned before, I could not care less if this player is who he says he is. And I don't care what any notary has verified or not verified. I don't care. And I'm not paying Max to pursue things I don't care about.

For the record, I've seen a copy of the the player's passport and his drivers license. It looks like two different individuals (the docs were issued about a month apart), so I wouldn't blame the casino on wanting these notarized. If you were a casino operator, you would have done the same thing (requesting some sort of proof that these are real). But that is where this PAB ended. The PAB was being processed and I immediately realized that this guy had been banned from the forum from a few years ago - it was game over. He is welcome to go elsewhere, and I wish him the best of luck. It just won't happen here.

Maybe I'm an asshole. If you feel that way, then that's just the way it'll have to be. This is how things work here. What we do we take seriously - and I reserve the right to take administrative actions against members who violate our membership rules.

I would suspect a notary whose job it is to certify documents would be better placed to identify fake documents they see in the flesh than a foreign casino that can only examine a scan.

FYI I've called the notary today and am currently waiting for a response although their office has confirmed to me that no one from casino seiger or casino meister has contacted them.

What some people do with their spare time.

...
It may be against forum rules and should be but call this fraud and you run the risk of turning this site into a laughing stock.

Please reread my definition of "fraud". Apparently you (and a number of others) are clutching to semantics and twisting words around to justify your support of someone who treats (treated) this forum as his own private circus.

What is fraud to the reasonable man? Is it:

A) Having two chat forum accounts

B) a casino refusing to pay out to a winning punter

Pretty obvious surely.

Nice trollish contribution. You need to reread my earlier comments as well.

As an end note, there are a number of people who share their computers with others here, and I have no problems with that. We have some couples that share computers, we have a few iGaming reps who have civilian accounts. Some people's accounts have become dormant and they open a new one a few years later. We have a few members who left a few years ago for whatever reason and then returned using different personas - this I have no problem with. Most of these people did the reasonable thing and contacted me letting me know. That is totally fine.

When you intentionally commit an act of deception (signing up after you've been banned acting as if you are a newbie), the line is drawn and you are tossed to the curb. That is just the way it is. It has always been our policy, and it always will be.

 

[dionysus]

personally, to me, it seems Max and Bryan have bent over backwards explaining themselves, when frankly, they don't NEED to explain themselves - at least not repeatedly. Title to resolved maybe?

 

[topoor]

Unfortunately CM the definition of fraud you posted isn't a definition of fraud that has any basis in a reasonable discussion about financial fraud.

The first result on google;

"Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain"

I don't regard a multiple forum account as a wrongful or criminal deception. There's is no financial or personal gain to be had as a result of the deceit either as his winnings are the gain and they aren't earnt deceitfully but legitimately.

I want to be clear that I'm not disagreeing with your right to refuse help to this player but fraudster is too far.

You don't seem to understand that whilst you may not give a toss others and I am one do. I don't like to read that this forum has misled me into thinking someone is a criminal because they opened a second account here. I also don't want to read of a casino defrauding a player because they feel justified to do so because you call that player a fraudster. What if they do it to the next player and if could have been prevented?

I am going to speak to the notary because I want the truth. What would you say if I come back and say the player is genuine?

I have to say if you labelled me a fraudster for the above reasons I'd regard it as libel, additionally max has stated specifically that this player defrauded the casino. Personally I would be taking action.

Sorry.

 

[maxd]

Unfortunately CM the definition of fraud you posted isn't a definition of fraud that has any basis in a reasonable discussion about financial fraud. ... "Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain".

Cherrypicking as usual. Try this (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

fraud (frôd) n.
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3. a. One that defrauds; a cheat.
b. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

I'd say that given the info at hand the OP is exactly what it says, a fraud, hence fraudster.

max has stated specifically that this player defrauded the casino.

Prove it! Where was that ever said? I have said time and again that there were deep misgivings about his documents, that I was on my way to tossing the case out for SUSPECTED fraudsterism. If you are referring to the one time when I said that the OP was "a serial fraudster both here and at the casino" then you might well have understood that I meant "casinoS", not this casino in particular. [Later: see here for corrections to this statement.]

I don't like to read that this forum has misled me into thinking someone is a criminal because they opened a second account here.

Then you might want to read this forum a little more closely. This for instance, from Bryan's post above (#54):

Steffigraff77 had a minimum of two other banned accounts in this forum. Mudnav and bash_2357. This is confirmed not only by matching IP addresses, but by matching email addresses and our vBulletin software that tracks cookies, (this is covered in our legal section and forum rules).

Mudnav was being accused of having multi casino accounts here, and I asked him whether or not he was "sharing" his computer with some one else - this was met with silence. I already knew that he was logging in the forum with another account (bash_2357) - another "member" who had issues being accused of being a "fraudster" at one time or another.

A few of you might remember that a few years ago this bash dude was the unlucky bloke who had his winnings removed from Neteller by the request of Prime Casino. Not that this had anything to do with multi-accounting (it was a non-fulfilled wagering requirement issue), but it set a pattern. That thread is here if you feel it necessary to waste some time. You can check out this guy's posting history and it's pretty much the same redundant stuff; getting stiffed by casinos, getting the runaround with ID docs, blah blah etc.

When we discovered that Mudnav and bash_2357 were one and the same, these two accounts were closed with the message to "contact me". Bash emailed me asking "why i have been banned from the CM website?" I told him that he was sharing his computer with another account, and that it was never cleared through us. He was using these accounts to complain about casinos and whatnot, and for us to allow these sort of bogus accounts to go unchecked dilutes the integrity of the site.

I never heard back from him again - that was December of 2008.

In other words his history here is a hell of a lot more than "he opened a second account". Willfully distorting facts and people's statements for the purposes of raising hell on the forums is troll behaviour. Keep it up and you'll feel the swift kick of the Posting Rules in the butt.

 

[Jufo]

No, it's not debatable. The guy had no less than three forum accounts - two of these were already banned. Please reread my earlier statement and you should be able to figure this out.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/forum-ass-clowns-and-the-definition-of-fraud.58408/

Yes, I read that statement. Most of the links you brought up regarding the OP were not even related to multiple accounts or fraud so I am not sure why they were brought up in this context. Only the shared IP thing from five years ago stood out as dodgy but even there the casino agreed to pay the winnings, so it seemed like a case full of uncertainties and not certainly any iron-cast proof of fraud.

As for duplicate forum accounts being "forum fraud" I have never seen such an expression before so I would say that it's a new, extended, definiton for this word. Instead of giving new definitions for words I'd rather restrict this word's usage to conventional cases like stolen identities or stolen credit cards because if you start to put the f-word into almost every context it will lose it's meaning pretty quickly.

The PAB was being processed and I immediately realized that this guy had been banned from the forum from a few years ago - it was game over. He is welcome to go elsewhere, and I wish him the best of luck. It just won't happen here.

Maybe I'm an asshole. If you feel that way, then that's just the way it'll have to be. This is how things work here. What we do we take seriously - and I reserve the right to take administrative actions against members who violate our membership rules.

I completely agree with this. Based on OPs history I agree there are good reasons to reject his PAB. But this doesn't seem to have been correctly communicated towards the casino though, because they wrote:


" Hello..
This has nothing to do with your case. The fraud management could not clearly identify your identity, we have liaised with Casino Meister regarding your case and they came to the same conclusions.

Sincerely,
Henry
Casino Sieger player support
Casino Sieger "

So if the PAB has been simply rejected shouldn't the casino be notified that the case is still wide open and no conclusion has been made about the disputed authenticity of the notary seal?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Unfortunately CM the definition of fraud you posted isn't a definition of fraud that has any basis in a reasonable discussion about financial fraud.

The first result on google;

"Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain"

I don't regard a multiple forum account as a wrongful or criminal deception. There's is no financial or personal gain to be had as a result of the deceit either as his winnings are the gain and they aren't earnt deceitfully but legitimately.

I want to be clear that I'm not disagreeing with your right to refuse help to this player but fraudster is too far.

You don't seem to understand that whilst you may not give a toss others and I am one do. I don't like to read that this forum has misled me into thinking someone is a criminal because they opened a second account here. I also don't want to read of a casino defrauding a player because they feel justified to do so because you call that player a fraudster. What if they do it to the next player and if could have been prevented?

I am going to speak to the notary because I want the truth. What would you say if I come back and say the player is genuine?

I have to say if you labelled me a fraudster for the above reasons I'd regard it as libel, additionally max has stated specifically that this player defrauded the casino. Personally I would be taking action.

Sorry.

I would say the Notary has breached the Data Protection Act.

The best you can hope for is being told that neither the casino nor Max has contacted the firm in relation to the notarization of a set of documents for an unidentified individual. Even this might be stretching it.

It's up to the notary concerned to take legal action if they feel this case has damaged their reputation. If the two documents looked like different individuals, I can't see how a notary would put their seal (and reputation) on the line and notarise them for use in a financial transaction. Part of the process is that the notarisation has to be done in person, so the notary gets to see the person to whom the documents relate, as well as the documents themselves. The only person in a position to take this further with the notary is the OP.

As for casino Seiger, justice has been done as this case has revealed the connection between them and Grand Duke, and confirmed by a careless rep forgetting to update his signature before posting casino Seiger's official statement on the matter.

One less than innocent motive for running multiple forum accounts is to get around the "one shot" rule for PABs against non accredited casinos. This fits "A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.", as a second PAB against a non accredited casino is not normally allowed, and if accepted, may be charged for. It's an "unfair gain" to get multiple free PABs through multiple forum accounts, whether or not the PABs themselves are legitimate.

I thought Bryan's statement had cleared things up. The PAB did not go in favour of either party, it was kicked to the curb due to the previous deception of the OP, who has procured the service through deception. This has had the unfortunate effect of the casino winning by default, which is what is causing concern.

Casino Seiger itself is not accredited, is "licensed" in Costa Rica, and is clearly connected to the known Rogue Grand Duke, which has shut down (did players get their balances returned, or did these too vanish into thin air under the noses of the LGA?).

There are two signs here to avoid the casino, no matter what the outcome of this case is.

 

[topoor]

Max

You just proved you said it yourself. That's exactly the line I was referring to and you clearly said at the casino. If you want to print a retraction then fine.

As for your definitions of fraudster. They'll do fine and none accurately describe the actions of the poster.

He is not a fraudster or a criminal because he opened more than 1 account here or for any other actions you have stated.

Thank you very much for threatening me for voicing an opinion.

 

[maxd]

Thank you very much for threatening me for voicing an opinion.

Thank you for proving that you are a troll and deserve the Infraction which I will now forward to you for your perusal.

In case anyone is wondering the system auto-bans anyone who has too many active Infractions at a given time. topoor seems to have hit that limit.

 

[LaurieJim]

I would say the Notary has breached the Data Protection Act.

The best you can hope for is being told that neither the casino nor Max has contacted the firm in relation to the notarization of a set of documents for an unidentified individual. Even this might be stretching it.

It's up to the notary concerned to take legal action if they feel this case has damaged their reputation. If the two documents looked like different individuals, I can't see how a notary would put their seal (and reputation) on the line and notarise them for use in a financial transaction. Part of the process is that the notarisation has to be done in person, so the notary gets to see the person to whom the documents relate, as well as the documents themselves. The only person in a position to take this further with the notary is the OP.

As for casino Seiger, justice has been done as this case has revealed the connection between them and Grand Duke, and confirmed by a careless rep forgetting to update his signature before posting casino Seiger's official statement on the matter.

One less than innocent motive for running multiple forum accounts is to get around the "one shot" rule for PABs against non accredited casinos. This fits "A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.", as a second PAB against a non accredited casino is not normally allowed, and if accepted, may be charged for. It's an "unfair gain" to get multiple free PABs through multiple forum accounts, whether or not the PABs themselves are legitimate.

I thought Bryan's statement had cleared things up. The PAB did not go in favour of either party, it was kicked to the curb due to the previous deception of the OP, who has procured the service through deception. This has had the unfortunate effect of the casino winning by default, which is what is causing concern.

Casino Seiger itself is not accredited, is "licensed" in Costa Rica, and is clearly connected to the known Rogue Grand Duke, which has shut down (did players get their balances returned, or did these too vanish into thin air under the noses of the LGA?).

There are two signs here to avoid the casino, no matter what the outcome of this case is.

A Notary would never disclose info to a third party without the clients knowledge otherwise the Notary would be held liable and face fines and loss of said commission.

I have never known a Notary to seek damages against a client as there has to be a face to face signing and a notary can ask for other proof of ID and if the Notary is unsure and not 100% positive, then the Doc. should never ever be signed, if Doc was signed to give to a third party for financial reasons, then yes this Doc can proceed to any other party(s) that is involved.

It is my feeling as a Notary for over 20 years that deals with financial docs everyday that this whole deal does not smell right !

The OP can seek damages against the Notary but this must be proven beyond a doubt as the insurance company O/E will have an attorney to fight this before they pay out. The Notary will have a record or copy of every thing signed , sealed and copies of IDs placed in his or her Notary journal and is required by law to keep for several years, this should also contain any fees incurred.

Laurie

 

[Cleveland]

A Notary would never disclose info to a third party without the clients knowledge otherwise the Notary would be held liable and face fines and loss of said commission.

Which is exactly why topoor is full of it, and was trolling. You being someone with plenty of experience / years in the field, thank you for posting this.

As for duplicate forum accounts being "forum fraud" I have never seen such an expression before so I would say that it's a new, extended, definiton for this word. Instead of giving new definitions for words I'd rather restrict this word's usage to conventional cases like stolen identities or stolen credit cards because if you start to put the f-word into almost every context it will lose it's meaning pretty quickly.

Lastly, fraud isn't a word restricted to legal / criminal realms. Yes it would typically be found there and I'm sure the etymology would indicate such but many words evolved and are used in other areas of life. I find it funny that people in this thread are stating how they "feel" the word should be used. When in fact the definition of the word is very clear.

Any type of deception for any type of personal gain can be fraud. When I tell my wife I have to hang up with her (from the cell phone) due to traffic or whatever, while pulling up to the drive through window, so she won't hear me ordering the burger I'm not suppose to be eating....I just deceived her for personal gain. Many will say O well you just lied. A lie to make someone think something other than what is going on is going on, is deceit. Personal gain isn't limited to financial enjoyment. The gain being my enjoyment of that burger. It doesn't carry criminal weight, but it is still fraud.

Opening the line of thinking up a bit since things are in tunnel vision. If a player lies to Bryan to continually get back on this site, in order to use the PAB service to pressure a casino into paying money not truly owed to them, guess what that is. That would be an attempt to defraud the casino, by using casinomeister. Many use casinomeister for just that, as they know the site carries a lot of weight in the gambling world. It's all part of the same criminal episode and modus operandi.

 

[Nifty29]

Yes, I read that statement. Most of the links you brought up regarding the OP were not even related to multiple accounts or fraud so I am not sure why they were brought up in this context. Only the shared IP thing from five years ago stood out as dodgy but even there the casino agreed to pay the winnings, so it seemed like a case full of uncertainties and not certainly any iron-cast proof of fraud.

As for duplicate forum accounts being "forum fraud" I have never seen such an expression before so I would say that it's a new, extended, definiton for this word. Instead of giving new definitions for words I'd rather restrict this word's usage to conventional cases like stolen identities or stolen credit cards because if you start to put the f-word into almost every context it will lose it's meaning pretty quickly.



I completely agree with this. Based on OPs history I agree there are good reasons to reject his PAB. But this doesn't seem to have been correctly communicated towards the casino though, because they wrote:


" Hello..
This has nothing to do with your case. The fraud management could not clearly identify your identity, we have liaised with Casino Meister regarding your case and they came to the same conclusions.

Sincerely,
Henry
Casino Sieger player support
Casino Sieger "

So if the PAB has been simply rejected shouldn't the casino be notified that the case is still wide open and no conclusion has been made about the disputed authenticity of the notary seal?

Did you miss the statement earlier from Max that went something like "I WAS ABOUT TO FIND IN FAVOUR OF THE CASINO when Bryan shut the PAB down etc".

So, your assertion that no conclusions were reached is WRONG. The results were just not finalized and published....VERY big difference between that and your insistence that Max made no assessment of the case. What the casino said in the forum at "Fraud City" (another forum) was technically correct...they didn't say the PAB came down on their side...they said CM had "come to the same conclusions"...which is correct according to Max.

Your inability to accept the obvious dodgy activities of the OP makes me wonder if they're a friend of yours. I can't find any other reason that you would ignore vital facts. As for your comment about them being "an AP who was unlucky etc" rather than a fraudster is laughable, but understandable given your AP background.

You're happy to accept everything the OP says, but not most of what Max and Bryan say. Given that neither you nor I have SEEN all the facts/evidence, it really comes down to trust and which party has the credibility and history of trustworthiness. You seem to think Max just gets lead around by the pecker by the casinos and doesn't have enough nous to sort the wheat from the chaff....I don't understand why people such as yourself and other recently banned members bother coming here. I mean, you obviously have no faith or respect for those who run the PAB service.

It appears the majority here have decided in whom they place their trust, and which party is the most credible.

 

[Jufo]

Did you miss the statement earlier from Max that went something like "I WAS ABOUT TO FIND IN FAVOUR OF THE CASINO when Bryan shut the PAB down etc".

So, your assertion that no conclusions were reached is WRONG. The results were just not finalized and published....VERY big difference between that and your insistence that Max made no assessment of the case. What the casino said in the forum at "Fraud City" (another forum) was technically correct...they didn't say the PAB came down on their side...they said CM had "come to the same conclusions"...which is correct according to Max.

Yes I read that, but since the PAB was shut down I assumed that whatever the result was about to be, became irrelevant at this point.

However, the good news is that another mediator is going to look into the case now and verify whether the identity of the OP was genuine or not. So we will soon found out whether maxd's PAB conclusion would have been the correct one.

Your inability to accept the obvious dodgy activities of the OP makes me wonder if they're a friend of yours. I can't find any other reason that you would ignore vital facts. As for your comment about them being "an AP who was unlucky etc" rather than a fraudster is laughable, but understandable given your AP background.

I am sure that you are well capable of having a discussion without resorting to personal attacks. But FWIW, no I do not know the OP at all. He simply happens to post on some of the same forums as me. If you re-read my posts I also said many times that the OPs actions seemed very dodgy and suspicious. I simply stated that the concrete evidence to call him a fraud is missing. If you are going to call someone a fraud you are going to need evidence to back it up - you cannot base it on a mere suspicion.

You're happy to accept everything the OP says, but not most of what Max and Bryan say. Given that neither you nor I have SEEN all the facts/evidence, it really comes down to trust and which party has the credibility and history of trustworthiness. You seem to think Max just gets lead around by the pecker by the casinos and doesn't have enough nous to sort the wheat from the chaff....I don't understand why people such as yourself and other recently banned members bother coming here. I mean, you obviously have no faith or respect for those who run the PAB service.

It appears the majority here have decided in whom they place their trust, and which party is the most credible.

Not true at all. But a service like this can never be successful if it's not open to feedback and constructive criticism.

 

[Nifty29]

Yes I read that, but since the PAB was shut down I assumed that whatever the result was about to be, became irrelevant at this point.

However, the good news is that another mediator is going to look into the case now and verify whether the identity of the OP was genuine or not. So we will soon found out whether maxd's PAB conclusion would have been the correct one.



I am sure that you are well capable of having a discussion without resorting to personal attacks. But FWIW, no I do not know the OP at all. He simply happens to post on some of the same forums as me. If you re-read my posts I also said many times that the OPs actions seemed very dodgy and suspicious. I simply stated that the concrete evidence to call him a fraud is missing. If you are going to call someone a fraud you are going to need evidence to back it up - you cannot base it on a mere suspicion.



Not true at all. But a service like this can never be successful if it's not open to feedback and constructive criticism.

Feedback and criticism....IF you have all the FACTS at hand....which you do not.

Without possessing the facts, "feedback and criticism" is pretty much just pissing in the wind. Drawing inferences and conclusions based on a mere percentage of the facts are ill-considered. We see enough of that from certain people already, and it achieves nothing. It just muddies the waters, which is precisely what the fraudsters want.

Max may be able to clarify this, but AFAIK the notary/ID issue wasn't the only one causing the casino concern. Even if it is, and the other mediator "authenticates" the documents somehow (would be interested to know how BTW...lets hope its not a case of "yup...they look Okay to me!"), it doesn't change the fact that the OP is a known fraudster already who uses whatever methods they can....including multiple accounts and straight up lying...to gain an advantage to which they (we) are not entitled. In my book, that makes them lower than a snakes arse on the totem pole of human beings. People who lie and cheat in one area will do it in others, and liars and cheats are scum IMO.

It's just unfortunate that other forums like "cheating bonuses" et al have a very low standard in regards to who they allow as members. If such places had any kind of ethical or moral fibre they would tell someone like the OP to get lost....but alas.

At the end of the day, the mediator can say whatever he likes, but the casino won't budge if THEY don't think he is legit. If something comes out of it, and the OP is "innocent", and the casino won't pay, then I call that "poetic justice" given that this bozo has probably done over many operators in the past.

 

[The Dude]

... But a service like this can never be successful if it's not open to feedback and constructive criticism.

I've always been open to feedback and criticism, but this thread - like a number of others that deal with dodgy players - is a breeding ground for trolls. Hardly anything constructive has come out of this except that perhaps I should come up with another fraudster player term. It's been an absolute time-suck and a pointless conversation. But it allows me to separate the wheat from the chaff, so the end result is that I really don't mind at all.

 

[topoor]

Cherrypicking as usual. Try this (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

fraud (frôd) n.
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3. a. One that defrauds; a cheat.
b. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

I'd say that given the info at hand the OP is exactly what it says, a fraud, hence fraudster.



Prove it! Where was that ever said? I have said time and again that there were deep misgivings about his documents, that I was on my way to tossing the case out for SUSPECTED fraudsterism. If you are referring to the one time when I said that the OP was "a serial fraudster both here and at the casino" then you might well have understood that I meant "casinoS", not this casino in particular.



Then you might want to read this forum a little more closely. This for instance, from Bryan's post above (#54):


In other words his history here is a hell of a lot more than "he opened a second account". Willfully distorting facts and people's statements for the purposes of raising hell on the forums is troll behaviour. Keep it up and you'll feel the swift kick of the Posting Rules in the butt.

So just to be clear and so there is no wilful distortion of the the facts. You did not mean to say the op had defrauded casino seiger but that he has in fact defrauded casinos plural?

"a serial fraudster both here and at the casinos"

1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3. a. One that defrauds; a cheat.
b. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

Presumably you have evidence that the poster has committed at least one of those against at least one casino?

The last thing I want to do is support a criminal when there must be evidence that I am not aware of. It just seems strange that none of this has been stated by you.

I'm sure you're able to clear this up with the facts you based your statement upon.


Cleveland. I am full of what exactly? I said I would contact the notary and I have done so. I did not say I had been told anything about the case or the client. I was told by the secretary that they had never heard of casinomeister or casino seiger. Please be careful with your insults as branding people liars without need is a dangerous road.

 

[maxd]

This will be my last contribution here as I have other business to attend to.

It seems I mis-spoke, the only _proven_ fraud that I know of is here on the site re: multiple memberships, so ...

"a serial fraudster [strike]both[/strike] here [strike]and at the casinos[/strike]" (I'll make note of this in the post where this originally appeared)

FWIW our experience is that those who are willing to practice fraud and deceit here with forum memberships are highly likely to do or have done the same elsewhere, namely the casinos. And when the circumstantial evidence keeps piling up at casino after casino, well ... certainly not proof of anything but all together it's enough to make them persona non grata as far as we are concerned.

 

[Cleveland]

Cleveland. I am full of what exactly? I said I would contact the notary and I have done so. I did not say I had been told anything about the case or the client. I was told by the secretary that they had never heard of casinomeister or casino seiger. Please be careful with your insults as branding people liars without need is a dangerous road.

If you don't know what you are full of, why are you assuming I called you a liar? You've truly added nothing of substance to this thread but that is only one mans opinion.

As to your advice. I'll be sure to store it next to the broccoli and all the other things I care nothing about.

 

[topoor]

If you don't know what you are full of, why are you assuming I called you a liar? You've truly added nothing of substance to this thread but that is only one mans opinion.

As to your advice. I'll be sure to store it next to the broccoli and all the other things I care nothing about.

We both know why, because to say someone is full of it is colloquial slang for lying.

As for not contributing anything, until my contributions this poster had been incorrectly labeled as a casino fraudster.

At least Max had the grace to admit his mistake. As for you, "full of it" will do just fine.

 

[topoor]

A Notary would never disclose info to a third party without the clients knowledge otherwise the Notary would be held liable and face fines and loss of said commission.

I have never known a Notary to seek damages against a client as there has to be a face to face signing and a notary can ask for other proof of ID and if the Notary is unsure and not 100% positive, then the Doc. should never ever be signed, if Doc was signed to give to a third party for financial reasons, then yes this Doc can proceed to any other party(s) that is involved.

It is my feeling as a Notary for over 20 years that deals with financial docs everyday that this whole deal does not smell right !

The OP can seek damages against the Notary but this must be proven beyond a doubt as the insurance company O/E will have an attorney to fight this before they pay out. The Notary will have a record or copy of every thing signed , sealed and copies of IDs placed in his or her Notary journal and is required by law to keep for several years, this should also contain any fees incurred.

Laurie

If you've been a notary for 20 years plus why don't you know how to accurately write the word notary? Just an observation.

 

[incrediblestuff]

If you don't know what you are full of, why are you assuming I called you a liar? You've truly added nothing of substance to this thread but that is only one mans opinion.

As to your advice. I'll be sure to store it next to the broccoli and all the other things I care nothing about.

I have nothing to to add to this thread, but just wanted to say that i am appalled by your lack of interest relating to one of the healthiest and most interesting vegetables on this planet!!

Broccoli:
Broccoli originated in Italy off of the Mediterranean. It has been eaten there since the time of the ancient Romans in the 6th Century BC.

Broccoli is a member of the cabbage family, making it a cruciferous vegetable. It's name is derived from the Italian word broccolo, meaning the flowering top of a cabbage.

Want something high in Vitamin C but don't feel like eating fruit? Broccoli is very high in Vitamin C, making 1 cup of chopped broccoli the Vitamin C equivalent of an orange. One cup of raw chopped broccoli will give you your entire daily needed intake.

Broccoli is also very high in Vitamin A. Vitamin A helps fight cancer within your cells, as well as keep your eyes healthy and stave off glaucoma and other eye degenerative diseases. It also helps to promote healthy skin, to break down urinary stones and to maintain healthy bones and teeth.

Broccoli is high in fiber. Not only in soluble fiber but insoluble as well. Since your body needs both types, it's great to know that broccoli is can fulfill both your needs.

Thomas Jefferson, one of the founding fathers of the United States, was a fan of broccoli, importing the seeds from Italy to plant at Monticello. He recorded planting the vegetable there as early as May of 1767.

Broccoli contains the flavonoid kaempferol. Kaempferol is an anti-inflammatory, helps fight against cancer and heart disease, and has been shown to be preventative in adult diabetes onset.

Broccoli has also played a key part in the James Bond film series. Well, sort of... An Italian-American, Mr. Albert R. Broccoli, is credited with bringing Ian Fleming's James Bond to film. Mr. Broccoli produced all of the Bond Films made during his life and his heirs currently help continue on the legacy.

What do you have to say about that!


Sorry for the possible derail, but i think broccoli should play a key part in everybody's life, and i'd like to take the oppurtunity to ask the Meister to add a special broccoli section, and to be fair also a part where cleveland can maybe continue his obvious agenda to discredit broccoli on a worldwide scale, the broccoli complaints section!

 

[LaurieJim]

So just to be clear and so there is no wilful distortion of the the facts. You did not mean to say the op had defrauded casino seiger but that he has in fact defrauded casinos plural?

"a serial fraudster both here and at the casinos"

1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3. a. One that defrauds; a cheat.
b. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

Presumably you have evidence that the poster has committed at least one of those against at least one casino?

The last thing I want to do is support a criminal when there must be evidence that I am not aware of. It just seems strange that none of this has been stated by you.

I'm sure you're able to clear this up with the facts you based your statement upon.


Cleveland. I am full of what exactly? I said I would contact the notary and I have done so. I did not say I had been told anything about the case or the client. I was told by the secretary that they had never heard of casinomeister or casino seiger. Please be careful with your insults as branding people liars without need is a dangerous road.

They would have never told you anyways even if they had , that would be the same as me calling or showing up at your Doctors office in person and asking if you had been in for a prostate exam It is unethical and against the law.

I am all for fairness to players and this has been showed , the OP will always be branded as a cheater for the muliple accounts, A cheater will always be just that , a Cheater at the end of the day! He brought this all onto himself and I have no pity for him or others out that that try to cheat , whether online , in a store or in a relationship, they all will go back to their same old M/O's.

Laurie