Fortyplus Casino

[The Dude]

I've finally gotten through to the CEO of Oddson, who reaffirms that Fortyplus casino went under. I should be talking to him shortly on the phone to find out is there is any recourse for players.

Fortyplus Casino was "licensed" in Costa Rica by the way.

 

[The Dude]

As it looks right now, players will probably be left in the cold on this one. The software provider is taking the postion that they provide the software, and that's about it. I'm rather flustered at this point since I have always thought that Oddson was better equipped both technically and ethically to deal with situations like this.

I really hope they pull themselves out of this nosedive before things get worse.

 

[jetset]

It is an absolute recipe for disaster for any serious turnkey provider to think that they can simply wash their hands of failed casinos that leave stiffed players in their wake.

I too hope that Gagnon and his crew at Odds On have more business sense than to leave the status quo like this - they are asking for major consumer resistance and a perhaps terminally damaged reputation.

Their remaining licensees will not be happy with this attitude, either.

Perhaps on reflection they will decide to behave in a more current and responsible fashion.

Does anyone have information on the real owners of Forty Plus btw? Can they be hunted down?

 

[cipher]

Believe me, its' not the last word just because ODDS ON SOFTWARE says they're not going to see that the debt's of Forty Plus are honored.

First off they (ODDS ON) had better come up with some fast and straight answers incident to Forty Plus's impound or reserve account that is held and controlled by Odds On.

Secondly, a very thorough list of players as well as the amounts owed to those players needs to be compiled and memorialized.

Third a list of ANY and ALL ODDS ON SOFTWARE LICENSEES (no Cherry Picking) all of them needs to be compiled and published along with an alert to avoid those casinos as though they carried the plague.

Fourth, every player on this Forum (or any other FORUM for that matter) needs to start taking this "BS" personally and as if the money that's been stolen is their own. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[jetset]

Well said, Cipher. This issue is definitely going to escalate as word gets out of Odds On's incredibly unprofessional approach to the Forty Plus affair.

 

[portia]

Have always enjoyed playing at Odds On powered casinos but being out of pocket for trusting the Odds-On brand in the case of Forty Plus makes me feel bitter and dumb for playing at these places now.

Presently the Surviving Odds On / virtual exchange powered casinos are :

Englishharbour
Silverdollar
CaribbeanGold
Aposte
AllPoker
Superslots
Millionaire
Casinobleublancrouge

Are player deposits safe at Odds on powered casinos these days?

We know times have been tough, and they cannot afford to offer much in promos anymore - how solid are they now?

For nostalgic players a list of Failed odds on casinos would include :

Casino365
Beawinner
Orioncasino
Magiclampcasino
Northshorecasino
Blackjack.com
VegasPlayercasino

And Now FortyPlus Casino ... BUT ...

Has something changed for the worse over at Odds On / Virtual exchange?

Cause i recall when these other casinos went down that players were paid weeks or months after they closed down. It seemed like Odds - On had prudently held some casino cash in reserve in case of failure. But now with Fortyplus we're told that the well is dry - tuff luck? Makes a player feel like he's been sucker punched.

What's that expression? Fool me once ...

You would figure that an experienced SW provider - to protect the value of his brand name - would require a casino operater to put up funds just to avoid the operator skipping out and leaving players stranded.

It also makes you wonder what the financial requirements are to purchase an odds on casino? Are they allowing under funded casinos to open up now?

Even though the games are good and the csr's are very good, maybe the Odds on management are tipping their hand that it ain't safe to play here anymore?

Sure hope not.

[If anyone wants to repost this elsewhere, go ahead]


(Message edited by portia on December 06, 2003)

 

[jetset]

That's a useful post, Portia.

 

[amandajm]

Undertones here are if a software supplier does'nt cover errant licensee debts then software supplier is full of shite.

Well i agree.

A list of suppliers who do this as far as i know stretches to..

Microgaming
Cryptologic
Cassava ??


(Message edited by amandajm on December 06, 2003)

 

[cipher]

Portia, that is a very well put together post. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[lanidar]

Portia

In your personal opinion...do YOU think its safe to deposit in any of the casinos listed below?

I play in Englishharbour, Silverdollar, CaribbeanGold and Casinobleublancrouge.

Lanidar

 

[dominique]

Please, guys, I am trying to negotiate this still.

Perhaps I should have publicized my attempts to do this better.

Anyone seeking help in this situation - please write to me at dominique@virtualgamingconference.com

The situation does not look rosy, but please don't burn my bridges while I still hold out some hope to resolve this.

I am negotiating for both players and affiliates who are hurt by this.

I expect no further news of progress until sometime in the second half of this month.

I will post all progress - please do NOT deluge me with mail, just send me your complaints and check back here for news.

I will contact all injured parties back by mail if and when I need more than the basic information about what happened. So if you see mail from me - it's a good thing.

Cross your fingers!

 

[cipher]

Dominique, I would seriously advise you that these people at Odds On Software are out of time.

To even think about letting this matter fester until sometime in the second half of the month is absolute lunacy.

Cipher

 

[jinnia]

Dominique,

You still haven't been able to make contact with Alan? Pierre? Any response at all from anyone on this?

Odds On and Fortyplus are the only ones I see burning bridges here.

 

[dominique]

I am pursuing this in a way that is a bit unusual. I saw an opening and I am going to explore it.

Nothing will happen until the second part of the month, and no pushing can change that.

I am not prepared to talk about what I am doing, and I really don't like the publicity in the first place. But alas, I need players and affiliates to know that there is a possibility of redress so that I can collect cases.

I hope everyone will have submitted their claims by mid month.

Thank you for your understanding - the point here is to try to help the aggrieved parties. A small chance is better than none at all.

I will post news when I have them.

And Bryan - I hope you don't mind my posting about this here. This is Casino Meister land - and I hope I am within your rules.

 

[cipher]

QUOTE
"I am pursuing this in a way that is a bit unusal. I saw an opening and I'm going to explore it."

Least I remind you Dominique there are people involved in this failure of Forty Plus Casino with tens of thousands of dollars at stake and it is time that legal counsel be involved instead of someone who appears to be more concerned about any affiliates that might be "hurt".

 

[jinnia]

I agree with you 100% cipher!!

 

[The Dude]

Hi Dominique,

I don't think you have to worry about any negotiations being jeopordized here since I was the one who initiated this thread. I only feel that players should be aware that I, and a number of others, are quite frankly miffed at the handling of this matter by Oddson. Please bear in mind that a number of players have "pitched" their "bitches" so to speak here. Probably some of the same who have been contacting you.

As for trusting other Oddson casinos, this is my take:

The Fortyplus casino manager (what a lame name to begin with anyway), decided to market his casino via message boards. This has always drawn up red flags in my mind since most people in the industry are aware that only about 7-10% of the players ever go there: message boards. This seemed to me a bit amaturish, or perhaps the manager/operator was familiar with the boards himself being a member under a different guise or whatever.

He approached me and asked for my rates for being listed here. I sent them before checking him out, but when I realised that he did not have a gaming license (Costa Rican licensed ), I turned him down. At this point, it would be the licensing agency who would be answering to the players/software provider.

It seems to me that the Fortyplus manager was inexperienced and financially ill-equipped to run a casino. As opposed to the operations of the English Harbour group, the difference is like night and day.

The English Harbour group has been around since the git-go, so they have a shitload of experience under their belt. So far over the past few years they have managed themselves quite well and are very successful at what they do. I am sure at this point they are infuriated on how Oddson is handling this situation since this is throwing a lot of shit their way that they don't deserve. As for licensing, they have a gaming license from Antigua. There is a certain value to this since there are some controlling factors to maintain this license. The director has a semi-high profile, he is even a member of this forum; so perhaps he is in the loop as to what is going on here.

In a nutshell, I'll be damned if the English Harbor group gets diminished in anyway, and it should behoove Oddson to wake up and do the right thing.

 

[dominique]

Bryan, the weather must be just as lousy in Kuepps as it is here for you to make a weekend appearance so quickly.

As usual, you are right, right, and right again.
I, too, have always held English Harbour in high regard.

As you know, I don't normally get involved in these things unless one of my visitors complains to me, then I help this person.

You mentioned that only a small percentage of players visits the boards - alas - it is so and it makes you wonder how many aggrieved parties are really out there. For that reason, it may well be a good thing that Alan mostly spammed boards to get players. At least it keeps the victim numbers down a little.

That is one of the reasons why I confine myself to my own site as a rule - players wo visit me are often much more naive than those here. They are recreational gamblers, and actually one main problem they have is that they don't understand bonuses at all. They deposit their money, play what they like, and if it's BJ and they win they find out they can't get paid because there was a wr they were not aware of. They don't want to read or count hands or play games they don't like - they just want to play what they like to play and win what they win. The more I write to try to explain about this, the less it gets read. These people lose money owed to them all the time, and there is no recourse for them at all. I believe that is where most all casinos, honest or not, rake in an incredible amount of money they should not. But I have no solution to offer but a total redo of the bonus system, and I digress.

I want to try something a little bit different here, and it is only a little over one more week until midmonth. After I try what I want to try, I will go back home and stay there like a good girl. (yeah, right!)

I won't be spamming your board about this anymore, I just wanted people to know that something is still happening.

Cipher, your remark about affiliates is uncalled for. I am not prejudiced in that way. If there were lizards among the victims, they would also be included. I am not doing this for players and excluding affiliates, nor the other way around. I don't see what difference it makes, if you got screwed you got screwed.

Ok, I will crawl back into my hole now.

Thank you, Bryan, for allowing me to post.

 

[dominique]

Oh, sorry, one more thing Bryan.

When we meet in Amsterdam I will buy you a couple of beers and will listen attentively while you tell me "I told you so, I told you so, I told you so......." :beer:

 

[cipher]

Dominique, in no way do I mean to impugn your integrity and if you feel as though I attempted to in anyway you have my sincere apologies.

Dominique I'm from the "OLD SCHOOL" or so to speak when it comes to Casinos and/or Software Providers stealing money "any bodies" money I consider it as though they are ripping me off.

When a circumstance such as this Forty Plus fiasco rears it's ugly head you can take it to the bank that it is not going to be a "fair" fight, as I've learned to come at these Casinos and Software providers with nothing short of OVERWHELMING FORCE, as that's the only thing that they and their attorneys understand. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[portia]

Acesjackpot2 has posted on WOL that the entire list of casinos in the ODDS ON stable (which we know are all Englishharbour group) are owned by odds on. I.e. that odds on owns (or are the same owners as) the English harbour group.

This has been suspected from the time that EH moved from MG to Odds on.

 

[dominique]

No offense taken, Cipher!

I have been around a while also. I have kept a low profile, although in recent months circumstances and I guess the fact that I'm a feisty old broad have made me a bit infamous in some circles. One thing can be said about me: Whether my beliefs are popular or not, I act in accordance with them.

This is an issue I feel strongly about, and I see an opening I hadn't noticed before. So I am going to explore it.

Like I said to Bryan, likely you will get to say "I told you so" and I will put my tail between my legs and endure the bashing sure to follow on the boards.

Portia: You say that Oddson secretly owns the English Harbour Group? I have a feeling Bryan will have something to say to that. I will take a peek at WOL - but I need to get away from all this and get some work done. Forums are addicitive!

 

[jetset]

I think Cipher is right, there can be little in the way of an acceptable excuse for this behaviour or a further delay in the debate.

The pressure should therefore remain on Odds On to sort out this mess their licensee has created by his/her unprofessional conduct and, let's face it lack of integrity in the manner of Forty Plus's closing.

Dominique will continue her unusual exploration anyway, but I do not see how a factual and robust discussion on this issue, including criticism of the closure tactics can affect the reaction of any party she may be talking to. This is not a mindless and crude trashing we are talking about here - it is an examination of facts that do little to credit either the Forty Plus owners or Gagnon & company at OO. And more importantly an attempt to find a way out for the players who have been prejudiced.

So, I for one will continue to publicise the issue and debate the actions (or rather lack thereof thus far) of Odds On.

I do want to draw a distinction regarding English Harbour though. I have been in this business since '96 and I believe EH is on balance a good group that has few black marks against it. I doubt that it is owned by Odds On, but I have an open mind if someone has evidence to support that allegation, and stranger things have happened in this industry.

I do not think EH should be actively prejudiced by these issues players have with folks of lesser integrity like Forty Plus et al, although the temptation to lash out at everything Odds On would be considerable.

Inevitably some of the opprobrium will rub off, but I think that EH will already be taking action to minimise that by working on its software provider behind the scenes to persuade them that their present approach is sheer lunacy in today's market.

I think there is still some merit in Odds On trying for a bail-out for the stiffed players with another operation. And as Cipher reminded us, there should still be Forty Plus monies held on e-processor deposit.

All might be lost to the erstwhile owners of Forty Plus, but it need not necessarily be the case in regard to the owed players and they must be brought to book on this by the most effective means available. Continued exposure of the issue is a good one to start with.

 

[portia]

Lanidar :

I play those places too. I like them.

But i will be holding off playing till i see what develops here.

 

[amandajm]

Dominique.

The more the merrier.

ie - when threads like these attract 100 comments per hour you'll find casinos and software providers will be more responsive.