Fortyplus Casino

[dominique]

Just one more note: The delay for what I am doing is not at this time due to the software provider.

It is to let me get all my ducks in a row. I can't move any faster than that.

 

[Casinomeister]

I plan on speaking with Pierre Gagnon later today over the phone. He called me last night, but I missed him. Hopefully I'll get some answers to some direct questions.

 

[Casinomeister]

I just got off the phone with Pierre Gagnon, and he is just as upset as most everyone else. Here's why. There is nothing they can do.

Oddson does not own the player database like many other software providers, so they don't have access to it. When forty+ when down, Oddson lost all contact with the casino's backend. They were as shocked as anyone else; first thinking it was some techno screwup. But these guys (Forty+) are gone.

He said they knew the operators, and the people involved with the casino. To up and disappear is a mystery to him. Side note: Forty+ used their own ecash provider.

So what this is boiling down to is that if Oddson could do something, they'd do it. But what?

It's difficult to compare this with any other similar situation. The RTG and MG casinos that have gone tits up were resolved (in most cases) by the software provider since they had a certain amount of control over the player database.

I don't smell a scam on Oddson's part, but I think they didn't properly prepare for something like this. Everyone involved in this sitation, be it Oddson, the players, or the other Oddson casinos, is taking a bite in the fourth point of contact (old paratrooper expression). This is the most unfortunate thing of all.

 

[cipher]

Thanks for the update Bryan, Odds On Software had a fiduciary responsibility to insure that the people they granted license to were both reputable and financially solid.

Did Pierre tell you who the owners of Forty Plus Casino were and/or where they might have taken off to?

 

[jetset]

I'm sorry, but this doesn't ring true for me. And if it was, it sets a very dangerous precedent for the players if other providers see this sort of "we know nothing" approach working.

Is Gagnon saying he had no access to verify the royalties due?

And perhaps he should say who are the owners in view of the fact that they have so abused his trust?

I cannot believe that an experienced provider like Gagnon could be suckered to this extent - the lack of even primary monitoring he is suggesting amounts to commercial negligence.

Did he say which processor Forty+ was allegedly using? He must have known that! I am finding huge difficulty accepting that they conveniently seem to know nothing about anything.

OK - if he wants to do something how about this:

1) Issue a public statement and answer legitimate media questions fired at him already.

2) Disclose who the Forty + e-processor was so we can verify that and the players can get a holding injunction on any future deposit payouts.

3) Disclose the identity of the owners. Even if Gagnon does not intend to pursue them legally I know of several players who will.

4) Talk to EH (as his sole remaining licensee) and at least try and organise a lifeline so the players have an opportunity to recoup something. And the WT should be reasonable.

 

[portia]

Wow brian, that is very interestng.



(Message edited by casinomeister on December 10, 2003)

 

[pioneer]

Hmm.. Regardless whether Gagnon has access to the player databases or not, that does not absolve Odds-on of all responsibility. Bryan, you have our complaints logged and the amounts owed are listed. If need be we (the players) can confirm this via neteller logs, either by neteller sending them to you with our consent or by whatever means satisfy all parties. If Gagnon is truly upset about this and wants to do the right thing, and I believe he does judging from your last post, then negotiations are still possible with you as (I presume) an acceptable mediator by all parties. Odds-on will have to cough up our deposits if they want to be absolved of this, otherwise the shitstorm will continue and will cost them a lot more in the long run.

 

[Casinomeister]

This came in last night from English Harbor which they requested that I post here:

We at EH New Ventures feel it necessary to acknowledge recent comments being directed towards the English Harbour group of casinos as a result of the unfortunate demise of Forty Plus Casino, a former licensee of Odds On.

Though we understand the anger and frustration felt by those who have been hurt by the closing of Forty Plus Casino and regret the position that they are left in, it is important to note that this situation has nothing to do with our operation.

We continue to rely, with confidence, on OddsOns software for our players.

And hi Pioneer, welcome to the forum. I think anything is possible at this point. I certainly believe that some sort of negotiations/suggestions/deals can be made. I just think that it may be too early to figure out exactly what it might be right now. The main problem is the player database. The Neteller way you suggest may be a good way to get started though. I'm in the process of running some suggestions by Oddson at the moment.

 

[amandajm]

If all else fails claim ignorance?

God forbid they be telling the truth..

Oddson Software is flawed because any old mug can open up a casino with the Oddson software then walk with no recourse - this info is now public ?

I think a LOL is in order.

Hence possibly only the EH firms are to be trusted because Alledgedly Oddson run them?

Cornered themselves themself.

Captured.

(Message edited by amandajm on December 10, 2003)

 

[cipher]

Given the most recent posts from Odds On Software et al, I've got to say that I don't know how anyone could place any measure of confidence in anything Odds On software has to say or god forbid any of their licensees including ENGLISH HARBOR.

What has come about as a result of the Forty Plus Casino melt down is nothing short of criminal neglect and for Odds On Software to continue to perpetrate this obvious fraud on the various forums makes it even worse.

Lastly, I would seriously suggest that ENGLISH HARBOR post their own statements so that they have no room to argue later on that they (ENGLISH HARBOR) did or did not post something. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi Cipher,

English Harbour can post through me or either on their own. Don't worry, this is a moderated board.

The posting that I made in their behalf is theirs, no doubt about it.

 

[jetset]

FORTY PLUS ROW GATHERS MOMENTUM

Is Odds On owned by English Harbour?

Player outrage grew this week as the unusual circumstances surrounding the failure of Forty Plus Casino continued to come to light, with questions being asked about the relationship that software provider Odds On has with its only surviving licensee the English Harbour group.

Just over two weeks back Forty Plus Casino made an unannounced and abrupt departure, leaving unpaid players in its wake. CEO George Finley and Casino Manager Alan Roberts vanished and ignored all emails, having assured players in the preceding weeks that their overdue payouts would be honoured.

The turnkey provider for Forty Plus is Odds On, but astonishingly this Toronto-based company and its CEO Pierre Gagnon issued no public or private player communications in the weeks following the casino's failure. And attempts over the past week or more by InfoPowa to get comment and answers to legitimate questions regarding this affair were ignored.

Players were not prepared to allow the matter to lie unanswered, however and the main message boards were soon filled with indignant posts and persistent claims that Odds On and its sole surviving licensee English Harbour, together with e-processor Virtual Exchange and EC Exchange and marketing outfit IP Marketing had a common ownership bond.

And it appears from information that is still coming in that this relationship requires more explanation.

With the message boards bristling, this week Gagnon sallied out from behind his wall of silence. But it was not to make a public statement. Instead he made a private telephone call to Bryan Bailey, webmaster of the Casinomeister portal in which he made the astounding claim that Odds On accepted no responsibility because it had no access to the casino backend, had not known what was going on at its licensee, did not know where the owners had gone and was in any case merely the software supplier.

Gagnon also claimed to Bailey that he had no information regarding the financial status of Forty Plus because the casino had used an e-processor independent of Odds On's usual supplier for this critical service. Cynics immediately asked how Odds On kept track of its Royalty dues if it did not know what was happening at its licensee.

Perhaps concerned at the escalating issue, English Harbour then posted widely across the industry that it was in no way connected with Forty Plus Casino, but that it had confidence in Odds On as its software supplier. When asked to explicitly deny or confirm any common ownership connections with Odds On in order to allay rampant speculation, the casino group inexplicably remained silent.

As we went to press some surprising and as yet unconfirmed information was coming in from a variety of sources, and efforts to track down the Forty Plus owners without the cooperation of Odds On continued.

In today's industry the "we're just the software provider" approach is an unacceptable cop-out as far as online gamblers are concerned, and the player community expects providers to stand behind and properly monitor the conduct of their licensees. At the very least Odds On should have communicated with the players and investigated the possibilities of arranging a bailout for them through another casino.

Odds On has seen several licensees fail, among them Vegas Player which appeared around July 2002 and by October had disappeared, re-emerging in December under new iCrystal software as part of Gambling Federation. It is understood that Odds On eventually assisted players in that closure.

Another contentious failure was Casino 388 that reportedly did not give players the courtesy of payment when it folded. There was a warning at that time on 'Gambling Grumbles' which after a long struggle gave the case up as hopeless.

Unless some radical re-thinking on this matter takes place at Odds On, the damage to reputation is likely to be substantial, and future consumer resistance to their product cannot be ruled out.

 

[sirius]

Casino388 stopped paying players a couple of years ago but months later someone else took over the casino and payments were made that were owed to players (including me) by the old management. I'm not sure if the same thing happened when it finally closed (whenever that was).

Maybe English Harbour will take over FortyPlus because they seem to have taken over all the other Odds On casinos. The original Celebrity Players Inc. Odds On casinos have disappeared or changed ownership to EH (SuperSlots is now owned by English Harbour and I think MillionaireCasino is too). I cashed out over $400 at 40+ recently after I first heard reports they weren't paying and I haven't been paid either.

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi All,

If possible, I'd like to collect the player complaints via the "Pitch a Bitch" https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/ So far I only have eight complaints totaling $12,000. This will give me a sense of the severity of this "problem" and a record of accounts in case a light at the end of the tunnel is detected.

 

[Casinomeister]

Thanks everyone who lodged their complaints. So far I have a total of 10 complaints totaling approxinately $12,000.

This is not as severe as many people had thought. Gambler's Lobby's downfall totaled around $15,000 or so, but then they had a larger player base.

The most severe thing is that so far, Oddson has not made any public announcement, etc. Which is extremely disappointing. There needs to be a source of resolution here...and it's not too late.

 

[jetset]

I'm afraid I must disagree and say that the gravity of this situation lies not in the number of players screwed who have complained at this site (not even one player should have been screwed) but in the appalling behaviour that Gagnon/Forty Plus continues to exhibit.

These guys have issued no public announcement or message board posting to tell the players left stranded by Forty Plus what is going on or even that Forty Plus had closed and the crew had done a runner. That's over three weeks down the line and...nothing.

They have not informed players, and as far as anyone is aware made any attempt to throw a lifeline or accept any responsibility whatsoever for the failure of one of their licensees, or even tell players that they were considering such a course of action. In fact the hearsay report shows them actively rejecting any obligation.

They have not cooperated in any way whatsoever with players trying to track down the criminals who dumped Forty Plus and its clients so unfairly and unceremoniously. Neither have they announced their own course of action against the perpetrators of the Forty Plus fraud.

They have not answered widespread speculation regarding their alleged ownership links with English Harbour group.

All we have from this supposedly professional operation (which has a few hiccoughs in its past) is a hearsay and unlikely story that they knew nothing at all about what was going on at their licensee.

This does not illustrate a high degree of integrity or professionalism as things stand at present, IMHO.

 

[Casinomeister]

I'm not saying that this wasn't severe. My first thoughts were that bucket loads of players would be pouring out of the woodwork screaming "Fraud!" So far it hasn't been that many.

But you are right, and I agree, that Oddson has not handled this well. In fact, this is a prime example on what NOT to do when it comes to failure of a licensee.

Honestly, I don't get it. Why don't they feel that it is important enough to inform players on what is going on. A public press release would have been the minimum. Sheesh! Their writing team could have written one for them over the weekend!

Where is it????

 

[jetset]

I suspect that they know their conduct to date is inexcusable (just look again at the summary of their complete lack of action posted above), and that they are worried that by saying something they are in some way acknowledging a moral obligation they have no intention of honouring.

I think they may also be concerned that if they put their heads up over the ramparts they may face a barrage of questions that they are unwilling to answer for reasons best known to themselves. And maybe these Toronto based fellows are a little gunshy of the Canadian authorities, too?

They may also be making the biggest mistake of all - listening to overly-cautious lawyers who would rather say nothing and see a reputation shot to shreds rather than risk a statement of any kind or moves to help the screwed players obtain deserved satisfaction.

Or they might just be plain, goddamned crooks who don't give a fig about the players who have been defrauded by one of their licensees!

Who knows? All we can judge Odds On and its friends by is their actions....and there haven't been too many positive efforts there thus far.

 

[spearmaster]

... changed my mind, better not to say anything at all...

(Message edited by Spearmaster on December 15, 2003)

 

[jetset]

A pity - because this is an issue that imo needs to be well aired and publicised Until the right thing is done.

 

[spearmaster]

LOL - I agree that the issue needs to be addressed - but the comment I made actually didn't add anything useful... LOL...

 

[Casinomeister]

Looks like the players who are/were awaiting payment may be paid via an interested third party. For those of you who have filed a complaint via Casinomeister, check your in box; I've requested additional information that needs to be acted upon ASAP. So far, half of you have responded.

If there are any other stragglers out there who haven't yet filed a complaint via the "Pitch a Bitch" section...now's the time to act.

 

[jetset]

I've suggested over at WOL and elsewhere that any stiffed Forty Plus player who wants to get paid comes to Casinomeister and fills in a Pitch A Bitch form for Bryan.

This way we can get a better handle on the extent of this fraud, and Casinomeister makes a convenient central collection depot for complaints.

If a third party who is not directly involved in this mess can look after the players (and kudos to him or her for that) then why can't Odds On?

This is going to make Pierre Gagnon and Odds On...and maybe even English Harbour group - look even worse if it comes about.

And there could be some mainstream media coverage on this shocking affair in the near future, too.

 

[Casinomeister]

Looks like Casinomeister made the Costa Rican newspapers:

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And it doesn't look too good for oddson...

 

[jinnia]

Jetset,

I agree with you 101%!

In my opinion, OddsOn should make things right with the jilted players. And according to their own website, if I understand it correctly, they DO have all the information in the data base of all activities at every casino that uses their software. It is THEIR server that keeps that for their casinos to have access to. Not the other way around. Did I read and understand that correctly??

So if that is correct, why say they don't? And just ignore this?