For people who play at 3Dice.

[cpdnd31]

OK so the big factor here is because the 25.00 he received was a gift? So what!! I cant deposit sometimes and have to make outside arrangements and get gifts all the time. Who cares how he got the money. Maybe his wife plays on 3dice and she deposits 100 and gifts him 25. who cares. The money was in his acct he played and lost 100. Those are the simple facts- he didn't give the money to anyone else he played it and lost. A gift is considered a deposit. Who cares how he got the money the point is he made 100 and then lost 100.

 

[bb28]

OK so the big factor here is because the 25.00 he received was a gift? So what!! I cant deposit sometimes and have to make outside arrangements and get gifts all the time. Who cares how he got the money. Maybe his wife plays on 3dice and she deposits 100 and gifts him 25. who cares. The money was in his acct he played and lost 100. Those are the simple facts- he didn't give the money to anyone else he played it and lost. A gift is considered a deposit. Who cares how he got the money the point is he made 100 and then lost 100.

No one but Skiny says the gift was a problem. Apparently he wants everyone to think it is and he has been put at a disadvantage. He is manipulating words and sometimes people to sway them over. He wants people to side with him against 3 D because he isn't happy over the way he wanted to manipulate the system that 3D has in place. I think skiny sits back and laughs a bit when what he set out to do seems to be working. Are you buying what he is selling?

 

[cpdnd31]

OK it's like I said in a previous post. I don't see how he was manipulating the system. He received 25. he played it won 100. put in safe played the 100 lost. I do that all the time how is that manipulating the system? What am I missing? I'm feeling really blonde here and lost.

 

[skiny]

3dice caught you, and others, manipulating their system to attain VIP perks. Get over it.

The bolded part above shows exactly who doesn't read posts...and it ain't me.

I also notice you have sunk to the depths of describing my credibility as being "inconsequential". You need to find a better way to argue your point when challenged than hurling personal insults. I am sarcastic at times, and some things and points of view annoy me, but you will NEVER see me slagging off someone's opinion by describing them/it as "useless" or "meaningless". It's the difference between you and me skiny.....you get nasty and personal when you're behind the 8 ball, and I just find a better argument and more facts. I might not present it with flowers and candles, but I always respect an opinion, even though I may disagree with it.

Anyway, no more derails for me.,...back to the topic

I respected your opinion until it became a blatant accusation. "3dice caught you manipulating the system." That is when your "opinion" became inconsequential and meaningless. There is no possible way you can know what I was doing when I was playing and yet you call me a cheat. Then you have the nerve to get offended because someone insulted you. That's pretty sad. I've seen you slag off players many times. I've seen the posts complaining about it. I've also seen you take the holier than thou attitude when they snap back. So my post offended you. "Get over it."

You've been doing these kind of threads, re: 3D, in one form or another for YEARS. Do you just get bored and consider it entertainment? lol

Seriously......just look at your below post. You take a personal dig at Nifty and you purposely use inflammatory words trying to gather support, "caught". lol IMO, the point you (fail to make) is a complete fallacy based on nothing other than you trying to get something for nothing. It's an illusion you are trying to set up for some reason, perhaps you get bored, perhaps you are pissed about not winning enough, maybe you just like to debate..........but your claims don't seem to have any real merit. You are just trying to inflame and incite.

I took no digs at Nifty until his opinion became accusation and Nifty is no angel or saint around here by any means.

Since when was gambling trying to get something for nothing? The money in my account was MY Money. It was not a tournament win. I had the choice to withdraw it or risk it to try to win more. I did exactly that. I gambled it and won more. Since when is that considered getting something for nothing? Do you even read what you type?

No one but Skiny says the gift was a problem. Apparently he wants everyone to think it is and he has been put at a disadvantage. He is manipulating words and sometimes people to sway them over. He wants people to side with him against 3 D because he isn't happy over the way he wanted to manipulate the system that 3D has in place. I think skiny sits back and laughs a bit when what he set out to do seems to be working. Are you buying what he is selling?

I have never said the gift was a problem. I said the gift was my own money. It didn't belong to the casino before it was sent to me and it didn't belong to the casino after it was sent to me. It was not casino property until I wagered it and lost it. In fact once I won 100 dollars with it, the entire 100 dollars ceased to be casino property. Just because it sits in my 3Dice safe does not make it casino property.

Now that will be the last time I try to explain this very simple concept to you because you quite obviously fail to understand it intentionally. You want to claim that I manipulated the system regardless of how unfounded the accusation is.

You and Nifty continually claim some sort of manipulation, abuse or cheating took place with absolutely no logical reason or proof simply because you want to side with the casino. There is no other reason than that. Your posts in this thread have about as much substance as much as Nisobar's "I heart 3dice"

 

[The Dude]

Let's keep the thread focused and drop the personal jabs - thank you.

And if someone could summarize this thread in one short paragraph (no more than three short sentences), it would be appreciated.

 

[bb28]

OK, skiny take CM's advice, sum it up for us who are too simple minded to understand.

 

[zap987]

Let's keep the thread focused and drop the personal jabs - thank you.

And if someone could summarize this thread in one short paragraph (no more than three short sentences), it would be appreciated.

To play 3dice tournaments you need either to generate enough playthrough for the lowest vip level, or a $50 deposit each month. Previously you could apparently deposit from your safe in 3dice cashier to make this $50 deposit but they changed it so that you need to deposit from outside the casino. The discussion is between the sides thinking this is good (it's abusable because you don't really need to gamble to play tournaments) or bad (money in the safe is your money and can easily be withdrawn and redeposited).

 

[Nifty29]

FYI Bryan, the 3Dice safe is an area in the cashier where you can move your funds to either stash them away for later use, or withdraw to your preferred method. It's pretty much a perpetual pending cashout which can be reversed at any time, or confirmed as a withdrawal.

What some players, including skiny, were doing is putting their winnings in the safe and only reversing funds up to $50 to qualify for the VIP tournaments. In other words, just recycling their balance in and out of the safe with little or no intention of actual playing. Unlike most casinos, 3dice allowed funds withdrawn from the safe to be considered "deposits". Now they have changed their policy so that only fresh deposits from outside the casino count for tournament entry, which is in line with industry standards.

Players affected are screaming because they cannot now just leave cash in their safe and reverse it and put it back in the safe every month (when I say "players" only one has identified themselves here and they have a long personal history of issues with 3dice).

3Dice has made changes to reward only those who genuinely want to play and show loyalty, and I think that is totally reasonable, and Enzo explained it fully and comprehensively.


P.S. NOBODY has accused ANYONE of cheating.

 

[cpdnd31]

This rule only affects people that were trying to 'ride' the system to begin with - I don't feel we have any obligation towards those particular players - they just make our job more difficult and have a negative impact on our community.

I understand that what I don't like is Enzo even stating its only for a chosen few. I don't like that thought process. It should be one for all -rules should not be adjusted because of who you are? If there is a problem of cheating just close accounts. RTG and other software platforms don't say well it this person lets do that. How many times has a player lost money because of a play thru mistake and the other software says no those are the rules. If your gonna make a rule you need to apply it to everyone - when a casino picks and chooses it scares me.

 

[Tirilej]

I don't get it Nifty. If Skiny cash out the money it won't cost him anything and he would get the money in just a few hours.
Then he can make a new deposit for $50 or $100 back in to the casino, and that wouldn't cost him anything either.
Only the casino would lose isn't it so?

I can't see how he abusing any system at all. I just can't see it no matter how many times I reading all of these posts in this thread.

 

[rockycatt]

I don't get it Nifty. If Skiny cash out the money it won't cost him anything and he would get the money in just a few hours.
Then he can make a new deposit for $50 or $100 back in to the casino, and that wouldn't cost him anything either.
Only the casino would lose isn't it so?

I can't see how he abusing any system at all. I just can't see it no matter how many times I reading all of these posts in this thread.

new deposits are required to at least 1x rollover or at the casino's policy at the time of deposit a long while back when 3 d was just beyond new around here i remember a player that droped off ten thou if my memory serves me corect and playe a very small miniscule amount then put in for a cash out but enzo caught him trying to use 3 dice for a free money delivery service

 

[nisosbar]

This is how I see it:

The tournament prizes are gifts from the casino, free money you can win. It's intended to be a reward for players who bring money into the casino from outside. You know, Behavioral Psychology 101? If you reward individuals when they do something, they will continue doing that thing. Nothing wrong about that at all.

What the casino obviously wants to do here, after (and this is important), I repeat, AFTER studying who is playing the tournaments, is to stop rewarding individuals whose habitual behavior doesn't bring outside money in.

The casino controls the black box here. I'm sorry, but they get to play puppet master, as far as I'm concerned, end of story.

 

[Tirilej]

new deposits are required to at least 1x rollover or at the casino's policy at the time of deposit a long while back when 3 d was just beyond new around here i remember a player that droped off ten thou if my memory serves me corect and playe a very small miniscule amount then put in for a cash out but enzo caught him trying to use 3 dice for a free money delivery service

Thanks rockycatt!
Then I get it. 3Dice is a place where people like to be chatting and playing free tournaments, and that money would only have lasted for two month?
I won't ask any more stupid questions.

 

[Nifty29]

I don't get it Nifty. If Skiny cash out the money it won't cost him anything and he would get the money in just a few hours.
Then he can make a new deposit for $50 or $100 back in to the casino, and that wouldn't cost him anything either.
Only the casino would lose isn't it so?

I can't see how he abusing any system at all. I just can't see it no matter how many times I reading all of these posts in this thread.

Thing is, it isn't just about the recycling of cash back and forth from the safe. If the player generates enough playthrough each month I.e. risks their own funds enough, then they automatically qualify for VIP perks regardless of where the money came from. Enzo ALSO allowed players who didn't make the playthrough requirements, but had deposited min $50, to be included in the tourneys. In this way, if you could only afford $50 a month, but you played it to zero i.e. wagered as much as you were able, you would still be considered eligible.....which is fair and generous to low rollers.

The players affected by the change were simply depositing the $50 out of their safe, generating a tiny playthrough, or perhaps even none at all, and then putting all or most of the $50, and perhaps a few bucks extra in winnings, back in the safe to pull out and use next month. It is a blatant misuse of the system that was designed to cater for those who were happy to deposit what they could afford and play. Players who have $100 in their safe for example, and deposit $50 at the start of the month, play a few spins, and put it back in the safe should NOT be eligible under the exception rule as they are NOT genuinely spending what they can afford and actually COULD generate the minimum.playthrough required for normal VIP status if they took the $100 and played for a reasonable amount of time. However, their intention is clearly to NOT generate the required playthrough, but RATHER to satisfy the $50 min deposit exception rule to gain pretty much FREE access to the VIP tourneys that everyone else has to pay for.....and that is totally unfair to the other loyal players who actually put their funds at risk.

It should be noted that the whole idea of whether players are depositing from the safe or via external deposit is irrelevant. A player depositing $50 by skrill who plays a few spins and stores the cash in the safe to re-use next month to qualify for VIP tourneys is just as culpable, and I think you'll find that 3dice would not allow it to continue.

So, in essence, it is about what these players DO with their funds, not just about where they come from. If skiny or anyone else took $50 from their safe and lost it all, but didnt make the playthrough for VIP, then they should qualify as they showed a genuine intention to put their funds at risk. However, this is not the case.

 

[rockycatt]

Thanks rockycatt!
Then I get it. 3Dice is a place where people like to be chatting and playing free tournaments, and that money would only have lasted for two month?
I won't ask any more stupid questions.

i totaly didn't mean that post as a jab but only to point out a extreme example i apologise if it offend you

 

[Tirilej]

i totaly didn't mean that post as a jab but only to point out a extreme example i apologise if it offend you

You didn't offend me. It's totally okey

I am just so surprised that anyone would do as described. It is a smart move if it's allowed, but for me and my concience it wouldn't be an option. I never cash out any free money without putting some of it back.

I believe all of us are confused, especially if we don't play there ourselves.
When reading Skinys posts I agree with him, but then I read the others and they sound right too.
Sorry! I'm just staying out of this.

 

[cpdnd31]

Nifty I understand completely what you are saying however here is where I am confused- Skiny said he lost 100. so he didn't just stop at 50. and redeposit- he lost 100 - so unless they are nailing him for months past but he played and lost 100. (my head is really starting to hurt lol)

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty I understand completely what you are saying however here is where I am confused- Skiny said he lost 100. so he didn't just stop at 50. and redeposit- he lost 100 - so unless they are nailing him for months past but he played and lost 100. (my head is really starting to hurt lol)

Well that might be the case. Otherwise, I can't see how skiny giving the casino $90 back doesn't qualify, as he did lose the funds back to the casino that he could have well have walked out the door with.....even I'm confused now

ENZO????? HELP!!!!

 

[cpdnd31]

No you can not be confused ROFL-- I thought it was just me?

 

[Tirilej]

Well that might be the case. Otherwise, I can't see how skiny giving the casino $90 back doesn't qualify, as he did lose the funds back to the casino that he could have well have walked out the door with.....even I'm confused now

ENZO????? HELP!!!!

Now I feel much better with my questions.
I love a confused Nifty

 

[skiny]

FYI Bryan, the 3Dice safe is an area in the cashier where you can move your funds to either stash them away for later use, or withdraw to your preferred method. It's pretty much a perpetual pending cashout which can be reversed at any time, or confirmed as a withdrawal.

The safe isn't a "perpetual pending cashout" It's a storage area. Sort of like a bank account. Money is "withdrawn" from a players current balance into the safe. The money in the safe can be withdrawn from the casino or "deposited" back into the players current balance. Players keep money in their safe with no intention of withdrawing it. Many players keep all of their money in the safe and only redeposit back into their current balance what they want to play that session. I've done this since I started playing at this casino.

What some players, including skiny, were doing is putting their winnings in the safe and only reversing funds up to $50 to qualify for the VIP tournaments. In other words, just recycling their balance in and out of the safe with little or no intention of actual playing.

You make one hell of a lot of assumptions and accusations for someone who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I'm starting to wonder if you even know what the word recycle means. I received a single gift from another player. I won some money with it. I put it in the safe. I withdrew it in smaller amounts and lost it all over time. How the hell is using something ONE TIME recycling it?

Unlike most casinos, 3dice allowed funds withdrawn from the safe to be considered "deposits". Now they have changed their policy so that only fresh deposits from outside the casino count for tournament entry, which is in line with industry standards.

Which is perfectly fine except nobody was aware of it. I started this thread to raise the awareness. If you read the first post it wasn't even a complaint. It was a simple statement of fact.

Players affected are screaming because they cannot now just leave cash in their safe and reverse it and put it back in the safe every month (when I say "players" only one has identified themselves here and they have a long personal history of issues with 3dice).

Only one identified himself because only one created the thread and now I'm wondering if you know what the word screaming means.

3Dice has made changes to reward only those who genuinely want to play and show loyalty, and I think that is totally reasonable, and Enzo explained it fully and comprehensively.

After I brought the subject up. Policy changes should be announced, not quietly instituted so people find out by accident.

P.S. NOBODY has accused ANYONE of cheating.

3dice caught you, and others, manipulating their system to attain VIP perks. Get over it.

Unbelievable. All I can do is shake my head. Sometimes I wonder if people even know what they're typing.

This is how I see it:

The tournament prizes are gifts from the casino, free money you can win. It's intended to be a reward for players who bring money into the casino from outside. You know, Behavioral Psychology 101? If you reward individuals when they do something, they will continue doing that thing. Nothing wrong about that at all.

What the casino obviously wants to do here, after (and this is important), I repeat, AFTER studying who is playing the tournaments, is to stop rewarding individuals whose habitual behavior doesn't bring outside money in.

The casino controls the black box here. I'm sorry, but they get to play puppet master, as far as I'm concerned, end of story.

Gifts from one player to another player always counted as deposits. As far as I know this hasn't changed. It would make no difference if I or anyone else hasn't deposited at this casino in 10 years. A gift from another player would still count as a deposit. And money won with that deposit would still count as real money winnings. The only thing that has changed is when you put your real money winnings in the safe, withdrawing it no longer counts as a deposit. I'm not even saying the rule shouldn't have changed. I'm saying people should have been made aware of it. My original post made people aware of it.[/QUOTE]

And you have no idea what the casino wants to do or what they studied so the rest is just what you think might have happened.

Thing is, it isn't just about the recycling of cash back and forth from the safe. If the player generates enough playthrough each month I.e. risks their own funds enough, then they automatically qualify for VIP perks regardless of where the money came from. Enzo ALSO allowed players who didn't make the playthrough requirements, but had deposited min $50, to be included in the tourneys. In this way, if you could only afford $50 a month, but you played it to zero i.e. wagered as much as you were able, you would still be considered eligible.....which is fair and generous to low rollers.

Anytime you take your money out of the safe and gamble it you're risking your own funds. I didn't take the money out and put it back. I took the money out and gambled the amount I took out many times over. In fact in the end I lost it all. If I was recycling it I would still have it.

The players affected by the change were simply depositing the $50 out of their safe, generating a tiny playthrough, or perhaps even none at all, and then putting all or most of the $50, and perhaps a few bucks extra in winnings, back in the safe to pull out and use next month. It is a blatant misuse of the system that was designed to cater for those who were happy to deposit what they could afford and play. Players who have $100 in their safe for example, and deposit $50 at the start of the month, play a few spins, and put it back in the safe should NOT be eligible under the exception rule as they are NOT genuinely spending what they can afford and actually COULD generate the minimum.playthrough required for normal VIP status if they took the $100 and played for a reasonable amount of time. However, their intention is clearly to NOT generate the required playthrough, but RATHER to satisfy the $50 min deposit exception rule to gain pretty much FREE access to the VIP tourneys that everyone else has to pay for.....and that is totally unfair to the other loyal players who actually put their funds at risk.

Great story. Too bad it has nothing to do with what actually happened. I withdrew the money to the safe once. Redeposited it in smaller amounts and lost it.

It should be noted that the whole idea of whether players are depositing from the safe or via external deposit is irrelevant. A player depositing $50 by skrill who plays a few spins and stores the cash in the safe to re-use next month to qualify for VIP tourneys is just as culpable, and I think you'll find that 3dice would not allow it to continue.

So, in essence, it is about what these players DO with their funds, not just about where they come from. If skiny or anyone else took $50 from their safe and lost it all, but didnt make the playthrough for VIP, then they should qualify as they showed a genuine intention to put their funds at risk. However, this is not the case.

ummm.... Have you read anything that was typed by anyone but you since this thread started?

 

[Nifty29]

The safe isn't a "perpetual pending cashout" It's a storage area. Sort of like a bank account. Money is "withdrawn" from a players current balance into the safe. The money in the safe can be withdrawn from the casino or "deposited" back into the players current balance. Players keep money in their safe with no intention of withdrawing it. Many players keep all of their money in the safe and only redeposit back into their current balance what they want to play that session. I've done this since I started playing at this casino.



You make one hell of a lot of assumptions and accusations for someone who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I'm starting to wonder if you even know what the word recycle means. I received a single gift from another player. I won some money with it. I put it in the safe. I withdrew it in smaller amounts and lost it all over time. How the hell is using something ONE TIME recycling it?



Which is perfectly fine except nobody was aware of it. I started this thread to raise the awareness. If you read the first post it wasn't even a complaint. It was a simple statement of fact.



Only one identified himself because only one created the thread and now I'm wondering if you know what the word screaming means.



After I brought the subject up. Policy changes should be announced, not quietly instituted so people find out by accident.





Unbelievable. All I can do is shake my head. Sometimes I wonder if people even know what they're typing.




Gifts from one player to another player always counted as deposits. As far as I know this hasn't changed. It would make no difference if I or anyone else hasn't deposited at this casino in 10 years. A gift from another player would still count as a deposit. And money won with that deposit would still count as real money winnings. The only thing that has changed is when you put your real money winnings in the safe, withdrawing it no longer counts as a deposit. I'm not even saying the rule shouldn't have changed. I'm saying people should have been made aware of it. My original post made people aware of it
And you have no idea what the casino wants to do or what they studied so the rest is just what you think might have happened.



Anytime you take your money out of the safe and gamble it you're risking your own funds. I didn't take the money out and put it back. I took the money out and gambled the amount I took out many times over. In fact in the end I lost it all. If I was recycling it I would still have it.



Great story. Too bad it has nothing to do with what actually happened. I withdrew the money to the safe once. Redeposited it in smaller amounts and lost it.



ummm.... Have you read anything that was typed by anyone but you since this thread started?

Once again skiny, you have shown that you cannot argue a point without making personal jabs.

Where I come from "you don't know what you're talking about" and "sometimes I wonder if people even know what they're typing" and "Have you read anything that was typed by anyone but you since this thread started" are personal insults that add nothing to the discussion whatsoever. Please provide an example of where I have personally insulted you in this thread. Happy hunting.

I must say, you are very passionate about this decision taken by 3Dice (for someone who "isn't complaining").

I've asked Enzo to confirm if it was past behaviour or this specific situation that led to your safe deposits not counting....because, on the face of it, you lost the $100 fair and square....but the question is, what were you doing in previous months?

If it turns out it is this specific situation (seems unlikely as the policy had obviously already changed), then I believe 3Dice got it wrong in this specific situation of yours and should give you access.

If it turns out your past depositing/safe moving behaviour is the reason, then it shows you aren't telling the whole story.

Let's wait and see eh?


@mistertee - nice high fiving of a post full of insults. It's a shame you couldn't make a more worthwhile contribution to the thread.

 

[bb28]

Skiny, did you deposit your 50 bucks this month and last month?

 

[bb28]

I took the liberty of going back and reading Enzo's post again and do notice that he gives clarification (see bolded and underlined) on when Skiny made his last deposit and how the money came to be in his safe.

So.....IMO and apparently Enzo's also, if you don't deposit 50 bucks, then you are no longer a VIP. It's quite simple actually. So again.........skiny's problem is that he thought he had figured out a way to work around it so he could remain a vip and play the tourny's, which I think is a pretty shitty thing to do. I also bet his gift that he played out was given by someone close to him, who knew exactly what the deal was and was aiding him in trying to work around the requirements. So Choc and the rest of you who do pay your dues and make your deposits, aren't you just a little perturbed that someone is ripping 3D and yes you off too? Afterall he has been playing the vip tourneys when he was NOT a vip.

There........I said it, the no bs version.

That's open for interpretation - your last actual deposit was well over a month ago - you didn't withdraw on that. Since then you've only played (many) tourneywins and gifts from other players (which were also tourney wins). The safe withdraw you speak of was won on one of those - not on an actual deposit. Had I implemented this rule earlier you would have had no safe withdraw to begin with - instead you would have lost your VIP status at the beginning of the month which in this case would have been much more fair. (A bronze* player that doesn't deposit or generate enough playthrough for over a month is not supposed to retain his VIP status.)



This rule only affects people that were trying to 'ride' the system to begin with - I don't feel we have any obligation towards those particular players - they just make our job more difficult and have a negative impact on our community. Every player that's in the VIP's that shouldn't be reduces the odds for legitimate players to win in those tournaments. The safe is an exceptional withdraw method on which we allow ultimate freedom. The suggestion you make that abusers will now simply use e.g. moneybookers instead of the safe is not valid. Depositing and withdrawing to the safe without actual play is no problem at all - doing that repeatedly to an external processor will result in the transaction costs being subtracted - and if we feel its all just a setup to take advantage of the $50 exception - which is in place for unlucky players - then it'll simply result in closure of the account. We have free tournaments that are always open to everyone - the VIP tournaments however are for the players that generate enough play to stay in the VIP system - and we owe it to those regular and valued players to make sure that the same requirements to get in apply to everyone.

I sincerely doubt any legitimate players have been impacted by this rule (we've verified who was going to be impacted before this was implemented) - and even if that were the case, I know for a fact that my support team is quite capable of assessing the situation and make manual adjustments where needed.

Regards,

Enzo

 

[skiny]

Once again skiny, you have shown that you cannot argue a point without making personal jabs.

Where I come from "you don't know what you're talking about" and "sometimes I wonder if people even know what they're typing" and "Have you read anything that was typed by anyone but you since this thread started" are personal insults that add nothing to the discussion whatsoever. Please provide an example of where I have personally insulted you in this thread. Happy hunting.

When you accuse me of abusing the system or manipulating the system it is an insult. I did neither. When you continue to accuse me of it over and over in spite of how many times I've explained to you exacty what I did then I have to wonder if you do read what I'm typing. Either you are not reading it or you are purposely ignoring it. And when you accuse anyone of cheating (abusing or manipulating the casino is cheating) and then ask when you insulted him then yes, I have to wonder if you're even reading what you're typing.

I must say, you are very passionate about this decision taken by 3Dice (for someone who "isn't complaining").

I don't know if you've noticed (again, I'm wondering if you're reading any of this) I never once said that 3Dice shouldn't change the rules. I said I would like to have been informed of them. That's when you and BB started accusing me of all kinds of things with absolutely no reason. So yes, I complained once (sort of) that 3Dice should have made players aware of the changes.

I've asked Enzo to confirm if it was past behaviour or this specific situation that led to your safe deposits not counting....because, on the face of it, you lost the $100 fair and square....but the question is, what were you doing in previous months?

If it turns out it is this specific situation (seems unlikely as the policy had obviously already changed), then I believe 3Dice got it wrong in this specific situation of yours and should give you access.

If it turns out your past depositing/safe moving behaviour is the reason, then it shows you aren't telling the whole story.

Let's wait and see eh?

Skiny, did you deposit your 50 bucks this month and last month?

You can ask Enzo anything you like. According to their own rules they're not allowed to discuss other people's accounts anyway. Not that it makes any difference because it does not matter if I have never deposited at 3Dice in my life.

It was a gift from another player. Gifts are deposits. Money won with gifts is real money. Money wagered with that money is real money wagers. And up until the day this thread started money deposited from the safe to a players current balance counted as a deposit.

If Enzo wanted to go hunting for players abusing the system that's perfectly fine with me. It makes no difference. How many times does it have to be explained to you that NO ABUSE TOOK PLACE? I did exactly the same thing I've done and countless other players have been doing for years.

I am seriously not explaining this again. You two are either incapable of understanding this or purposely refusing to but all you're doing by making me repeat the same very simple concepts and events over and over is making yourselves look silly.

edit - When Enzo said "gifts from other players" I'm pretty sure he meant "gift" from other players because there was only one since my last deposit. Jas sent me a surprise fiver quite a while ago which was very kind of her and lasted about 4 minutes (lol). And the last one before that is beyond my memory. So we can stop pluralizing the word gift.

 

[bb28]

When you accuse me of abusing the system or manipulating the system it is an insult. I did neither. When you continue to accuse me of it over and over in spite of how many times I've explained to you exacty what I did then I have to wonder if you do read what I'm typing. Either you are not reading it or you are purposely ignoring it. And when you accuse anyone of cheating (abusing or manipulating the casino is cheating) and then ask when you insulted him then yes, I have to wonder if you're even reading what you're typing.



I don't know if you've noticed (again, I'm wondering if you're reading any of this) I never once said that 3Dice shouldn't change the rules. I said I would like to have been informed of them. That's when you and BB started accusing me of all kinds of things with absolutely no reason. So yes, I complained once (sort of) that 3Dice should have made players aware of the changes.





You can ask Enzo anything you like. According to their own rules they're not allowed to discuss other people's accounts anyway. Not that it makes any difference because it does not matter if I have never deposited at 3Dice in my life.

Funny how you are twisting things around. I asked you a simple question but you didn't answer but then I later went back and copied Enzo's post which clearly states you did NOT make a deposit this month. That is the whole crux of the matter isn't it? You didn't make a deposit to remain vip and thought you had outsmarted 3 d in how to remain vip without depositing. You can stamp your feet and insult all you like, but Enzo said it just as tactfully as possible. It's quite clear.

You didn't like that he shut you out of the vip tourneys for the above reasons, so you came here and hemmed and hawed and tried to get people to see it your way without presenting the facts. You are still doing the same thing, filling your posts with fluff instead of what is the real issue. Not a nice thing to do to your fellow members, now is it?

It was a gift from another player. Gifts are deposits. Money won with gifts is real money. Money wagered with that money is real money wagers. And up until the day this thread started money deposited from the safe to a players current balance counted as a deposit.

If Enzo wanted to go hunting for players abusing the system that's perfectly fine with me. It makes no difference. How many times does it have to be explained to you that NO ABUSE TOOK PLACE? I did exactly the same thing I've done and countless other players have been doing for years.

I am seriously not explaining this again. You two are either incapable of understanding this or purposely refusing to but all you're doing by making me repeat the same very simple concepts and events over and over is making yourselves look silly.

edit - When Enzo said "gifts from other players" I'm pretty sure he meant "gift" from other players because there was only one since my last deposit. Jas sent me a surprise fiver quite a while ago which was very kind of her and lasted about 4 minutes (lol). And the last one before that is beyond my memory. So we can stop pluralizing the word gift.

see bolded

 

[blonde]

Is it me or IMO make a real money deposit with one of the deposit methods play and be done with it. This sums it up for me, anyone else?

 

[nisosbar]

And you have no idea what the casino wants to do or what they studied so the rest is just what you think might have happened.

You are rude, and this will be my last response to you for the time being.

I sincerely doubt any legitimate players have been impacted by this rule (we've verified who was going to be impacted before this was implemented) - and even if that were the case, I know for a fact that my support team is quite capable of assessing the situation and make manual adjustments where needed.

Regards,

Enzo

Note: "...before this was implemented"

 

[Nifty29]

When you accuse me of abusing the system or manipulating the system it is an insult. I did neither. When you continue to accuse me of it over and over in spite of how many times I've explained to you exacty what I did then I have to wonder if you do read what I'm typing. Either you are not reading it or you are purposely ignoring it. And when you accuse anyone of cheating (abusing or manipulating the casino is cheating) and then ask when you insulted him then yes, I have to wonder if you're even reading what you're typing.



I don't know if you've noticed (again, I'm wondering if you're reading any of this) I never once said that 3Dice shouldn't change the rules. I said I would like to have been informed of them. That's when you and BB started accusing me of all kinds of things with absolutely no reason. So yes, I complained once (sort of) that 3Dice should have made players aware of the changes.





You can ask Enzo anything you like. According to their own rules they're not allowed to discuss other people's accounts anyway. Not that it makes any difference because it does not matter if I have never deposited at 3Dice in my life.

It was a gift from another player. Gifts are deposits. Money won with gifts is real money. Money wagered with that money is real money wagers. And up until the day this thread started money deposited from the safe to a players current balance counted as a deposit.

If Enzo wanted to go hunting for players abusing the system that's perfectly fine with me. It makes no difference. How many times does it have to be explained to you that NO ABUSE TOOK PLACE? I did exactly the same thing I've done and countless other players have been doing for years.

I am seriously not explaining this again. You two are either incapable of understanding this or purposely refusing to but all you're doing by making me repeat the same very simple concepts and events over and over is making yourselves look silly.

edit - When Enzo said "gifts from other players" I'm pretty sure he meant "gift" from other players because there was only one since my last deposit. Jas sent me a surprise fiver quite a while ago which was very kind of her and lasted about 4 minutes (lol). And the last one before that is beyond my memory. So we can stop pluralizing the word gift.

Again, avoiding the question by taking jabs at bb28 and I and our comprehension, and therefore mental and intellectual, capacity. You can bang about me all you like, be we all know this is not about your current situation where you lost the $100 from your safe.....it is about what you have BEEN doing. Enzo said he COULD have implemented it weeks ago, so your insistence on making it about the $100 you lost from your safe seems like a smokescreen to divert attention away from the REAL issue.

If I said you abused or manipulated the system (don't remember that but I may have), and it is proven that you DID, then it is not an insult....it is truth, which is a complete defence.

Afaic if you make statements about what happened at a casino and misrepresent the situation or omit facts, then the casino has the right to refute them. You can't pick and choose what you want people to know when you're complaining about a casino (which you are)...especially an accredited one.

You're just upset that your free ride is over. Every other loyal player should be happy that now only REAL genuine depositing players will be contesting the vip tourneys. It just goes to show that every time an operator creates something to help players out, some people have to come along and suck it dry.

If you're REALLY serious about your innocence in this whole situation, give Enzo permission to reveal your casino history to Bryan confidentially and let him decide if you were manipulating the system or not. Seems like a fair compromise to me, since you're unwilling to share the information with the membership. If you're not willing to do either, then we can draw our own conclusions.

Of course, you can just keep on insulting everyone who doesn't share your point of view, and we can draw our own conclusions from that as well.

The ball is in your court skiny.

I don't normally play the VIP tourney, bit I think I'll go enter now that there's less players.

 

[cpdnd31]

OK Here is my next question-IF there screwing around and cheating the system why is Enzo being nice and letting these people still play at 3Dice? I don't get that as well. If it was any other casino the hint of fraud would have an account locked. Why not get rid of the cheaters?

 

[bb28]

OK Here is my next question-IF there screwing around and cheating the system why is Enzo being nice and letting these people still play at 3Dice? I don't get that as well. If it was any other casino the hint of fraud would have an account locked. Why not get rid of the cheaters?

Enzo said in his previous post that they now have a better system in place for rooting out the people who are abusing the system (in order to play vip tourneys). The key word is abusing, he didn't say fraud or cheaters.

 

[mattsgame]

I don't understand why 3Dice doesn't move to a completely playthrough-based VIP model.

Hi Guys,

Allow me to shed some light on the situation here. First off, the 3Dice VIP program is entirely
playthrough based. I

Now I find out that the 400 dollars in play I generated and the 80 or 90 dollars in safe deposits don't count toward vip anymore.

Ok, now the way I read this is that Skiny would have added to his V.I.P level with the playthrough on that $100. Regardless of what you take out of the safe, you are still contributing to your V.I.P level through playthrough.

The $50 deposit a month was a *safe guard* to those unlucky players and 3Dice gives them the minimum V.I.P level for this.

If you deposit the minimum $50 a month and are unlucky then you are at the lowest level V.I.P. If you deposit $50 and are lucky *say turn it into $200 and generate $600 playthrough* then you are likely to be on a higher V.I.P level than the unlucky player.

This is how most other casino V.I.P programs work, so I really don't see what the problem is here. 32Red, Jackpot Capital and Betfred you name it its all the same.

The $50 minimum is a *Perk* of 3Dice that allows any losing player to be a V.I.P and play tournaments etc. $50 would not make you a V.I.P at many other casinos without a lot of playthrough and luck.

 

[mattsgame]

Ok, so I did read it correctly.

Skiny this was already answered by Ellen.

1. As we discussed in support, deposits from the safe do count toward your user level, as the play generated from these deposits is the same as any other deposit. However, in the interest of fairness to our depositing players, transactions to and from the safe alone are not sufficient for VIP tournament eligibility.

2. The play that was generated from the gift he received did earn cps and does count toward the 3Dice user level

So why is this in your opening post?

I just had a chat with Ellen.

Now I find out that the 400 dollars in play I generated and the 80 or 90 dollars in safe deposits don't count toward vip anymore.

Your trying to make it sound worse than it actually is mate. The only thing that has changed is that a fresh deposit ($50 every 30 days) is required for a player to be considered for the lowest level V.I.P.

This sounds reasonable and fair to me.

Edit: Just to add and put it into perspective.. Skiny you have contributed to your V.I.P and will keep some sort of V.I.P status because of the playthrough you acquired during play.

Would you seriously be happy if I had $50 in my safe and on the 1st of March I reverse it and then put it straight back into the safe to use again on the 1st of April to get the same perks you did, albeit I did not risk a cent? and you did?

 

[blonde]

I really think this discussion can go on, and on, and on. For those who agree and fully understand what Enzo has implemented I think, well I don't know what to think anymore. Ok I am just babbling on now

 

[cpdnd31]

I think I need a DRINK

 

[The Dude]

Thanks for the clarification on what this is all about. So we now have 9 pages of posts - several of them becoming heated (finger hovering over the "infraction" button) - yet the discussion seems to be going around in a circle.

I'm tempted to put a fork in it. Anyone else want to second the motion?

 

[cheetahwind]

Essentially my take on it, the OP played from winnings generated from free play, and now is upset because they felt scammed they don't get to keep there VIP status because the deposit hadn't been from cash. So I second the motion.

 

[zap987]

It does seem too many people fail to grasp the situation because Skiny is very bad at making it clear what happened and is more interested in fighting personal battles with other posters. I usually don't agree with Skiny but in this case he is absolutely right, when he had $100 in his safe he could have withdrawn and redeposited to be eligible for tournaments. He didn't only because he didn't know it was needed and instead moved the money from the safe and lost them. If he had indeed moved them from the safe and then back it would have been abusing the system, but he clearly states he gambled and lost the $100.

This new rule isn't protecting anything, anyone looking to qualify for cheap and play tournaments will adapt and the end result will only be more transaction costs for the casino.

 

[Jasminebed]

I'd like to put my two cents in before this thread is forked. I would have preferred to write this post while sober.

Like nisobar, I heart 3Dice.

I also heart skiny. In the interest of full disclosure, I've had the pleasure of meeting him in real life. Skiny buying me some discounted casino fish 'n chips doesn't make me a shill I hope. I've had the pleasure of meeting his brother (hi shaky) and his sister in-law, and chit-chatting with his son online. 3Dice strives to be a family affair, and a lot of that is achieved in chat. Skiny and his family are not the only families to play at 3Dice.

The first post only informed players of a change in how loyalty was handled. To be perfectly honest, for a fellow canuck like skiny, finding alternatives to putting in the safe and later redopositing are low-cost. I could have put a fiver in an envelope and mailed it to skiny for about what my gift at 3Dice cost when you consider exchange rates.

I'm being personal in this thread, because people have been personal. I'm pretty much sure that skiny is not the only player to use the safe for deposits, and if he was truly interested in maintaining VIP status without playing, he would have played 2 cent Keno to generate enough playthrough from tourney wins if he was lucky.

I'm not so sure gifts count as deposits to maintain VIP status. I know at one point quite some time ago I gifted a fellow CM member and 3Dice player via Moneybookers (a fellow canuck) because a gift at 3Dice wouldn't have kept her playing. I gifted my kid during the short time she played at 3Dice.

Skiny is definitely not the only player maintaining VIP tourney status without depositing, so it might be a dolphin caught in a tuna net. Some dolphins may speak up more than others.

I'm not faulting 3Dice for making changes, but I have to agree that changes should be upfront. If you encounter a change you were not notified of, grandfathering you in for the one time would be a good option.

The safe benefits 3Dice more than it does the players, or they wouldn't have it. My advice would be to not hamper it's use, as it's overall benefit outweighs its costs to the casino.

I've gifted a lot of players at 3Dice, and I've sponsored a lot of tourneys that were gifts, gifts to both the Casino and the player that won them. That money was MY money, and if I give a gift to someone, I don't expect to have restrictions put on it. I would expect that they would lose in line with the RTP, especially over the long haul.

 

[3Dice]

Ok guys,

First off, I want to make clear that implementing this rule did not save me a penny - my motivation is clearly not financial, but rather simply my responsibility to keep things fair for all of you. So I'll let you guys be the judge ..

The 3Dice VIP system is set up to be very accessible. The bronze* category specifically is setup so that it is possible for any player at any budget to reach it. To be and stay a bronze* player one needs to earn a minimum of 2 comp points every 10 days. (that's right - two comp points.). That's not a lot. In exchange for that 3Dice makes sure you can play tournaments 24/7 - a great deal imho. Also one that does not take a lot of effort to be compliant with. This is the basic rule. It used to be the only one but it happens at times that people do make the deposits for that - but have real bad luck and don't get to those 2 comp points. For those scenario's, where
the deposit over the past 30 days was 50 or more, but due to bad luck the minimum comp level wasn't reached - we added the exception that we now find is being abused.

The 3Dice safe is in the first place a responsible gambling feature - its a balance away from your balance. Our original motivation to do this came from the players. We had a bunch of good players that were withdrawing
and redepositing (using our instant methods) within minutes. Upon talking to these players it became clear that in order for their psychology to work they had to remove those larger wins from their balance - a valid form
of budget control but alas one that was generating a lot of transaction costs for 3Dice. Recognizing the validity of their strategy we decided to implement the safe. A balance away from your balance that doesn't go through any administrative checks and is instant - always and for everyone. I still think the safe is a fantastic idea and that is also the feedback we get on it.

Ok, that's just a bit of background so everyone knows what we're talking about. Back to the OP. In the past 3 groups of 10 days the OP did not earn the minimum 2 comp points. That would have been the normal scenario for the OP to retain his bronze* level. In those 30 days there are 9 non-safe transactions - 8 are tourney prizes and 1 is a gift. He had some nice hits on the gift, getting his balance up to about 4 times the original gift. When that happened the OP moved part of his balance to the safe, and less than 7 minutes later moved it back to his balance.

With the old rules that would've qualified him for the exception scenario (notice how very clearly - this is not why the exception scenario was added) - but under the new rules it doesn't. The OP's response was to post a manipulative post on the 3Dice forum, and when that did not trigger the response he wanted he hinted to my support staff that he should post it somewhere else cause 'our forum isn't very busy'. The rest of the story you know.

So tell me - should I manually override the OP's status and put him back on bronze* ?

Enzo

 

[Tirilej]

I can't seem to stay quiet anyway

Perfectly well put explanation Enzo. I do get your system now.
But as far as your last question I think that was out of line.
The only thing Skiny has been saying from the start is that he wish he had known the changes that was made, and wanted to warn other players.
It's not up to others to decide or arguing on what Vip-level he should be in now.
That's your decision.

 

[Nifty29]

I can't seem to stay quiet anyway

Perfectly well put explanation Enzo. I do get your system now.
But as far as your last question I think that was out of line.
The only thing Skiny has been saying from the start is that he wish he had known the changes that was made, and wanted to warn other players.
It's not up to others to decide or arguing on what Vip-level he should be in now.
That's your decision.

I agree with the last part.

Don't leave it up to members as the accusations of personal bias etc will start flying.

I will say that somebody moving money to their safe and then back IN SEVEN MINUTES is not doing so for any other reason but attempting to make that transaction count for something.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about skiny, it is obvious what he was doing in the past, and whilst it might technically have been allowed, it was undoubtedly an attempt to take advantage of a special exception set up for those who are UNABLE.....not UNWILLING....to generate the small amount of comp points required to qualify.

Given that skiny did lose his $100, I assume he will qualify at the beginning of next month anyway based on playthrough alone (?), so I don't think his past antics should be rewarded by basically giving him what he was already trying to get via the "back door". I think it would send the wrong message.

Lets not forget that he can still play the FREE tournaments and win real cash, so its not like he is cut off from all benefits.....just the ones that others, unlike him, genuinely risk their hard-earned to achieve. Before I am accused once again of insulting the man or calling him a cheat, I am NOT making observations about skiny personally, only about his actions. Big difference.

Just to clarify....we are NOT talking about his recent $100 loss here...it is immaterial as it will most likely qualify him for next month via playthrough method....we are talking about his almost instant movement of money from balance to safe and back to qualify under the $50 min deposit exception. I'm sorry, but considering he could have placed his money at risk and earned the comp points quite easily, there's no other conclusion to reach other than he deliberately tried to access VIP benefits almost for free....and that is poor form, and is a slap in the face to those loyal regulars who deposit and play without ever even entertaining a scheme to get something they're not entitled to.

 

[3Dice]

Hi Trillej,

Let me reiterate an important point here. When we are considering a rule-change like this we always go and look up exactly who it would impact. In this case that meant making a list of people that were bronze* but wouldn't have been if the safe didn't count for the $50 exception. We then manually look at all those accounts. Had there been one account where I felt that it was in fact a legitimate scenario - then I would have warned players about the change. In this particular case however every single of those accounts were from players that were clearly just trying to get a free VIP ride. I don't think its a good strategy to notify the people that spend their time finding loopholes in our system of the fact that one of those loopholes will no longer work.

And as to me asking the question here - don't take that the wrong way. I made my decision when I implemented this rule change. And while others in this sector get - rightfully - put on the spot here on CM for trying to fill their own pockets, this isn't the first time I'm being put on the spot for trying to protect fairness. I made my decision - in the interest off all of you - because I felt that this rule was clearly, as in the case of the OP, being abused - if you guys however don't share that feeling then I will adjust my position on this.

The OP is trying to make this about a whole bunch of things it isn't about. 3Dice withdraws not being 'your money' - please .. nobody is asking that question - we're still the #1 when it comes to cashouts. The safe deposits not 'real' ? come'on ! - we let you claim bonuses on it .. That's not what any of this is about. If this is to be discussed in the open - then only one question needs to be answered - does anyone think the OP deserves to be bronze* ?

My motivation to do this and step in comes from the fact that I'm convinced that virtually everyone that's a VIP at 3Dice wants me to make sure that the same requirements go for everyone. If I'm wrong in that assumption and you guys don't care and feel the OP should be VIP then I will be happy to change that. If this thread goes on any further let us focus on the real question.

If an unnamed player does what the OP did - do you think he should be VIP or not ?

Enzo

 

[Nifty29]

I'd like to put my two cents in before this thread is forked. I would have preferred to write this post while sober.

Like nisobar, I heart 3Dice.

I also heart skiny. In the interest of full disclosure, I've had the pleasure of meeting him in real life. Skiny buying me some discounted casino fish 'n chips doesn't make me a shill I hope. I've had the pleasure of meeting his brother (hi shaky) and his sister in-law, and chit-chatting with his son online. 3Dice strives to be a family affair, and a lot of that is achieved in chat. Skiny and his family are not the only families to play at 3Dice.

The first post only informed players of a change in how loyalty was handled. To be perfectly honest, for a fellow canuck like skiny, finding alternatives to putting in the safe and later redopositing are low-cost. I could have put a fiver in an envelope and mailed it to skiny for about what my gift at 3Dice cost when you consider exchange rates.

I'm being personal in this thread, because people have been personal. I'm pretty much sure that skiny is not the only player to use the safe for deposits, and if he was truly interested in maintaining VIP status without playing, he would have played 2 cent Keno to generate enough playthrough from tourney wins if he was lucky.

I'm not so sure gifts count as deposits to maintain VIP status. I know at one point quite some time ago I gifted a fellow CM member and 3Dice player via Moneybookers (a fellow canuck) because a gift at 3Dice wouldn't have kept her playing. I gifted my kid during the short time she played at 3Dice.

Skiny is definitely not the only player maintaining VIP tourney status without depositing, so it might be a dolphin caught in a tuna net. Some dolphins may speak up more than others.

I'm not faulting 3Dice for making changes, but I have to agree that changes should be upfront. If you encounter a change you were not notified of, grandfathering you in for the one time would be a good option.

The safe benefits 3Dice more than it does the players, or they wouldn't have it. My advice would be to not hamper it's use, as it's overall benefit outweighs its costs to the casino.

I've gifted a lot of players at 3Dice, and I've sponsored a lot of tourneys that were gifts, gifts to both the Casino and the player that won them. That money was MY money, and if I give a gift to someone, I don't expect to have restrictions put on it. I would expect that they would lose in line with the RTP, especially over the long haul.

Hey jazzy

I appreciate what you're saying about skiny personally etc, but the issue isnt really about that at all. Nobody is questioning what kind of person he is or whether he is nice or not. It's always nice when members get to meet IRL, but it doesn't change any of the facts.

Also, nobody is saying others haven't done the same. However, whether or not others did it is immaterial, as again, it doesn't change any of the facts. The only relevance it has is that too many players doing it has attracted the attention of management so they all were identified. It certainly doesn't mitigate anyones actions.

I'm confused about what restrictions you feel are being placed on gifts? My take is that if you gift someone $10 every 10 days, and they generate the 2 comp points each time, they are VIP. I'm not aware of any restriction at all, apart from a situation where you might gift someone $50, they move it to their safe, and then immediately move it back to their balance and expect it to be considered a deposit. It clearly shouldn't be, as they are not putting those funds at risk, but merely moving them around to fly under the radar right into the VIP tourneys. Surely you can see how that is unfair?


@Enzo

If this were an anonymous player - NO they should not be VIP at this time. As I said, it is rewarding the behavior.

I do think it would have been prudent to at least contact the players involved to announce the change of rules, or even a general email. Jmo.

 

[zap987]

Hi Trillej,

Let me reiterate an important point here. When we are considering a rule-change like this we always go and look up exactly who it would impact. In this case that meant making a list of people that were bronze* but wouldn't have been if the safe didn't count for the $50 exception. We then manually look at all those accounts. Had there been one account where I felt that it was in fact a legitimate scenario - then I would have warned players about the change. In this particular case however every single of those accounts were from players that were clearly just trying to get a free VIP ride. I don't think its a good strategy to notify the people that spend their time finding loopholes in our system of the fact that one of those loopholes will no longer work.

And as to me asking the question here - don't take that the wrong way. I made my decision when I implemented this rule change. And while others in this sector get - rightfully - put on the spot here on CM for trying to fill their own pockets, this isn't the first time I'm being put on the spot for trying to protect fairness. I made my decision - in the interest off all of you - because I felt that this rule was clearly, as in the case of the OP, being abused - if you guys however don't share that feeling then I will adjust my position on this.

The OP is trying to make this about a whole bunch of things it isn't about. 3Dice withdraws not being 'your money' - please .. nobody is asking that question - we're still the #1 when it comes to cashouts. The safe deposits not 'real' ? come'on ! - we let you claim bonuses on it .. That's not what any of this is about. If this is to be discussed in the open - then only one question needs to be answered - does anyone think the OP deserves to be bronze* ?

My motivation to do this and step in comes from the fact that I'm convinced that virtually everyone that's a VIP at 3Dice wants me to make sure that the same requirements go for everyone. If I'm wrong in that assumption and you guys don't care and feel the OP should be VIP then I will be happy to change that. If this thread goes on any further let us focus on the real question.

If an unnamed player does what the OP did - do you think he should be VIP or not ?

Enzo

Assuming the unnamed player loses the $50 or more, then yes. There shouldn't be any difference if the money comes from a gift, Neteller or the safe as long as they are gambled and lost. If someone puts in $50, plays some low risk games for a bit and then puts it back in the safe they are abusing the system and shouldn't get in.

You've made it clear the $50 rule is there as protection for players that have bad luck and don't generate enough playthrough and then the rules should look for the bad luck and not where the money came from. Ideally Skiny shouldn't have felt the need to move the money to the safe and back, the system should recognize that he had a withdrawable balance >$50 at one point and at a later point had a $0 balance (assuming the $0, it's not completely clear from his posts), and that should be enough to get him in tournaments for a month.

 

[dionysus]

Here's my honest answer; and to be clear, this has nothing to do with one particular case, it's only addressing the question at hand...I personally don't care about other people's accounts, whether they receive VIP from gifts, deposits or at the leisure of the casino's good will. I'm only concerned about mine. This isn't cold,it's realistic. I'm not responsible for anyone's wins, losses, or relationships they have with their managers or representatives.
Of course all players aren't expected to be treated equal; that's not the reality of life. I don't expect the same perks as someone who deposits thousands more than me, online or landbased. (Like I'd ask for a free hotel after spending $100 just becaaue someone who spent 1ok last month gets one and I didn't..that's just silly)
Frankly, I'm just interested in knowing if my $50 gets me VIP or 2 comp points does, so I can deposit or earn and get on with it lol...and if my manager throws me perks or not, that's between me and my casino manager, just as someone else who gets gifts, freebs, or comps is theirs.

 

[Nifty29]

Assuming the unnamed player loses the $50 or more, then yes. There shouldn't be any difference if the money comes from a gift, Neteller or the safe as long as they are gambled and lost. If someone puts in $50, plays some low risk games for a bit and then puts it back in the safe they are abusing the system and shouldn't get in.

You've made it clear the $50 rule is there as protection for players that have bad luck and don't generate enough playthrough and then the rules should look for the bad luck and not where the money came from. Ideally Skiny shouldn't have felt the need to move the money to the safe and back, the system should recognize that he had a withdrawable balance >$50 at one point and at a later point had a $0 balance (assuming the $0, it's not completely clear from his posts), and that should be enough to get him in tournaments for a month.

Agree...but remember that the $50 that is lost will only qualify them in the next month (or VIP period not sure exactly how it works for tourneys)...it is not instant. So, in skiny's case, the $100 he lost should make him eligible from April 1st anyway based on his comp points (I think).

If skiny gets the upgrade now, it is IMO rewarding his previous attempts to obtain VIP status without the playthrough that he could easily have achieved if he so wished.

You're right about it not mattering where the cash comes from, as long as it is actually wagered to generate the comp points required and not just moved around. In fact, I would think Enzo would take a dim view of a player depositing from outside the casino and moving funds in and out without sufficient wagering...it amounts to the same thing.

Enzo stated the OP has been creating smokescreens and creating issues where there are none to cover what he was actually doing, and he is right. It reminds me of some of those players who come here and complain about having funds confiscated and omit facts and refuse to reveal vital information, only to be found out later to be doing something dodgy....if it wasn't skiny I would have thought it was a fraudster at work.

 

[skiny]

I broke no rules. I manipulated no funds. I abused no system. I did exactly what the safe was designed for.

I moved the money to the safe and took it back out because I LOST what I had. The fact that I was losing it as fast as I could take it out is not my fault. I would have been quite happy to win more and put that in the safe too but that didn't happen.

Nifty, BB and Enzo can spin this in circles all day long but the reality is I did not abuse anything. They can repeat the same accusations all day long but it changes nothing. This all started because I told people about a new rule. That is all. Maybe Enzo didn't want people to know about the new rule. Maybe Enzo wanted to keep his new rule a secret so more people found out the hard way. Maybe he wanted to pick and choose who followed the rule and who didn't. I really have no idea but all I did was start a thread stating what the new rule was and the 9 page farce that followed was a result of it.

Enzo is also breaking (again) his own rules be discussing another player's account. I've been told by him and his staff that is something they can't do and yet he sits here and does it.

I don't care if he discusses my account. I have no secrets. But it is a casino rule that he simply decided he didn't feel like following so he didn't. Absolutely nothing in my past has anything to do with these transactions which were completely legitimate.

If the new rule is my legitimate gift from another player doesn't count toward vip that's fine. If the new rule is my winnings from that doesn't count toward vip that's fine. I'm following the casino rules. I always have. At least one of us is.

So go ahead Bryan, stick a fork in it because it's become no more than a childish argument between someone who has to continually repeat the same simple facts over and over and people who have no idea what they're talking about but and refuse to understand. I can't even be bothered reading everything since my last post because I know it's just a rehash of the same foolishness.

Jas, I thank you for your kind words. Choc, I thank you for being honest and understanding.

edit - One last thing. If the new rule is that I do not gain vip status from the transactions then by all means do not make me vip. I never once said I should be vip. The ONLY thing I've said right from the start was I should have been informed.

 

[ShayDrew]

No. You should not.

Ok guys,

First off, I want to make clear that implementing this rule did not save me a penny - my motivation is clearly not financial, but rather simply my responsibility to keep things fair for all of you. So I'll let you guys be the judge ..

The 3Dice VIP system is set up to be very accessible. The bronze* category specifically is setup so that it is possible for any player at any budget to reach it. To be and stay a bronze* player one needs to earn a minimum of 2 comp points every 10 days. (that's right - two comp points.). That's not a lot. In exchange for that 3Dice makes sure you can play tournaments 24/7 - a great deal imho. Also one that does not take a lot of effort to be compliant with. This is the basic rule. It used to be the only one but it happens at times that people do make the deposits for that - but have real bad luck and don't get to those 2 comp points. For those scenario's, where
the deposit over the past 30 days was 50 or more, but due to bad luck the minimum comp level wasn't reached - we added the exception that we now find is being abused.

The 3Dice safe is in the first place a responsible gambling feature - its a balance away from your balance. Our original motivation to do this came from the players. We had a bunch of good players that were withdrawing
and redepositing (using our instant methods) within minutes. Upon talking to these players it became clear that in order for their psychology to work they had to remove those larger wins from their balance - a valid form
of budget control but alas one that was generating a lot of transaction costs for 3Dice. Recognizing the validity of their strategy we decided to implement the safe. A balance away from your balance that doesn't go through any administrative checks and is instant - always and for everyone. I still think the safe is a fantastic idea and that is also the feedback we get on it.

Ok, that's just a bit of background so everyone knows what we're talking about. Back to the OP. In the past 3 groups of 10 days the OP did not earn the minimum 2 comp points. That would have been the normal scenario for the OP to retain his bronze* level. In those 30 days there are 9 non-safe transactions - 8 are tourney prizes and 1 is a gift. He had some nice hits on the gift, getting his balance up to about 4 times the original gift. When that happened the OP moved part of his balance to the safe, and less than 7 minutes later moved it back to his balance.

With the old rules that would've qualified him for the exception scenario (notice how very clearly - this is not why the exception scenario was added) - but under the new rules it doesn't. The OP's response was to post a manipulative post on the 3Dice forum, and when that did not trigger the response he wanted he hinted to my support staff that he should post it somewhere else cause 'our forum isn't very busy'. The rest of the story you know.

So tell me - should I manually override the OP's status and put him back on bronze* ?

Enzo

 

[3Dice]

I broke no rules. I manipulated no funds. I abused no system. I did exactly what the safe was designed for.

I moved the money to the safe and took it back out because I LOST what I had. The fact that I was losing it as fast as I could take it out is not my fault. I would have been quite happy to win more and put that in the safe too but that didn't happen.

Nifty, BB and Enzo can spin this in circles all day long but the reality is I did not abuse anything. They can repeat the same accusations all day long but it changes nothing. This all started because I told people about a new rule. That is all. Maybe Enzo didn't want people to know about the new rule. Maybe Enzo wanted to keep his new rule a secret so more people found out the hard way. Maybe he wanted to pick and choose who followed the rule and who didn't. I really have no idea but all I did was start a thread stating what the new rule was and the 9 page farce that followed was a result of it.

If the new rule is my legitimate gift from another player doesn't count toward vip that's fine. If the new rule is my winnings from that doesn't count toward vip that's fine. I'm following the casino rules. I always have. At least one of us is.

That's not correct skiny. Any play on that gift counts towards loyalty - it always has and that's not the new rule at all. Even more so you know this all to well since you claimed the comp points that you earned on that gift .... What happened is you got lucky on the gift, and you used the safe - both of which are perfectly fine. But it doesn't make you someone who deposited and lost 100. It makes you someone who deposited the gift, got lucky on it, then lost it, and you earned comp points while doing it. That you parked your money 7 minutes in the safe somewhere inbetween doesn't make you a bigger depositor. That block of 10 days you qualified because you earned more than two comp points - you had no comp points in the two previous blocks however so you dropped one star. You don't qualify for the minimum deposit exception because you didn't deposit 100 - again you deposited the gift, had some luck of both types. Someone who deposits $100 and wins $10k then looses it doesn't qualify as someone who deposited $10k - he qualifies as someone that deposited $100 and got lucky - which in my book is equally loyal to someone who deposited $100 and loses it. The gift wasn't big enough to qualify for the deposit exception and getting lucky doesn't make you a bigger depositor.

So in short and to make sure we're clear. With this new rule in place, gifts still count towards loyalty - they always have. And if you don't get the comp points there's still an exception for someone that has deposited $50 or more. Luck + Safe just doesn't equal deposit anymore. It never should have.

Enzo.