Danger! High Voltage - Technical Analysis (The best symbol on Gates of Hell and other info)

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
How do you KNOW they aren't predetermined, just from the client-server communications?
The client requesting the next spin, doesn't mean, that next spin is freshly, randomly generated, and not just the next line from a predetermined sequence.

What about the situation someone had in the Bonanza thread, where the client locked-up during the cascade, which triggered the bonus game?
He wasn't even given the screen to start the bonus game, but his casino balance was updated with the result of the freespins.

And of course it's not a good thing to have freespins predetermined, in the way that most large matrix games do (jamin jars, gemix etc)
The final wins have been carefully selected before the games are even released. The distribution of wins and the maximum win are all very carefully controlled.
So, that 'dream' combination of symbols, which you're hoping for, which should be possible (however tiny that possibility is). maybe isn't even included in the database of pre-selected wins.

It also brings into question the claims of some games of 'unlimited multipliers' and 'unlimited spins'

You are right, that could be the case. But i don't believe it is for 2 reasons. 1. It would be a really weird way of implementing. There is nothing wrong with pregenerating the spins, so why go through the trouble of trying to hide it? 2. BTG have stated they always hit the RNG for every spin, and as a reputable slot provider, i believe them.

It doesn't matter at all if it is predetermined, as long as it is all generated after the spin button is pressed. The result is still random. (which is the only way it can be done).

As for the matrix games, i kind of agree with you here. I understand the practicalities of why it is done this way, but the fact that not every possibility is available is a let down to me, despite being legitimate.
 
Last edited:

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Any bonus can be good and any one can be bad. Getting 9's (the best symbol) just gives you the best chance of a good bonus. It can still be rubbish as there are still, relatively, very few 9's on the reels.

Jacks are a pretty poor symbol.

BTG are actually one of the developers who don't determine the whole bonus round up front. They make a request and hit the RNG for every single spin. However, there is nothing wrong with a slot being 'pre-determined'. You have to remember that 'pre-determined' is not 'rigged'. Pre-determined just means that all of the RNG calls are made up front and the spin/bonus results are fully generated before showing you the result. It doesn't have any effect on how random the result is or whether it is a good or bad result.
If this is correct how does it explain the bonus round on Bonanza @pinnit2014 had when he triggered it then got disconnected and when he reloaded the total for his round had been already added to his balance?

I am not saying it’s not what happens as in the server making individual calls for each spin I just want to know how it accounts for this scenario.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
If this is correct how does it explain the bonus round on Bonanza @pinnit2014 had when he triggered it then got disconnected and when he reloaded the total for his round had been already added to his balance?

I am not saying it’s not what happens as in the server making individual calls for each spin I just want to know how it accounts for this scenario.

BTG do have recovery methods if their games error out hard (or for half played sessions over X days old) . It's possible something catastrophic went wrong and the game was unrecoverable. In this case BTG play it out in the background to resolve it and pay the winnings.

This is likely what happened given the error occuring in the first place. Just an act of self healing by the server. Hard to be sure without seeing that exact game though :)
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Ok just trying to get a better understanding of when these things happen, how they are resolved and still not predetermined:thumbsup:.
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
BTG do have recovery methods if their games error out hard (or for half played sessions over X days old) . It's possible something catastrophic went wrong and the game was unrecoverable. In this case BTG play it out in the background to resolve it and pay the winnings.

This is likely what happened given the error occuring in the first place. Just an act of self healing by the server. Hard to be sure without seeing that exact game though :)
New Slot Announcement - Bonanza by Big Time Gaming

The game locked and his balance updated
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom

Yeh, hard to say, but I'd assume either what i said above and it detected the error and self healed or another possibility is just that the graphics froze, but the game was still playing in the background so it eventually finished but he just couldn't see the graphics changing due to a rendering issue (dodgy memory on the graphics card, that kind of thing).

A lot would depend on how long it took for the balance to update. I.e,was it instant after the error occured, or did he sit and stare at it for 5 mins waiting and trying to get it to work before the balance updated? If he sat there waiting, it's very possible it was just a rendering issue on his comp, and it was actually playing out behind his frozen screen :)
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Yeh, hard to say, but I'd assume either what i said above and it detected the error and self healed or another possibility is just that the graphics froze, but the game was still playing in the background so it eventually finished but he just couldn't see the graphics changing due to a rendering issue (dodgy memory on the graphics card, that kind of thing).

A lot would depend on how long it took for the balance to update. I.e,was it instant after the error occured, or did he sit and stare at it for 5 mins waiting and trying to get it to work before the balance updated? If he sat there waiting, it's very possible it was just a rendering issue on his comp, and it was actually playing out behind his frozen screen :)

IRRC the balance was showing at the same time the actual spin occurred.

Edit - memory like a sieve: think it showed when the D came in and it went to ‘pulse’
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
Yeh, hard to say, but I'd assume either what i said above and it detected the error and self healed or another possibility is just that the graphics froze, but the game was still playing in the background so it eventually finished but he just couldn't see the graphics changing due to a rendering issue (dodgy memory on the graphics card, that kind of thing).

A lot would depend on how long it took for the balance to update. I.e,was it instant after the error occured, or did he sit and stare at it for 5 mins waiting and trying to get it to work before the balance updated? If he sat there waiting, it's very possible it was just a rendering issue on his comp, and it was actually playing out behind his frozen screen :)
But if the graphics froze and the game was still playing in the background so it eventually finished.
How did the freespins even start?
He didn't get to the start screen to tell the server to start sending results.
And I'm pretty sure the game always waits for that start button to be pressed, before continuing.

From reading his post, I'd say the balance updated fairly quickly (I'm sure @pinnit2014 can confirm) and the freespins played through after reloading the game.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
IRRC the balance was showing at the same time the actual spin occurred.

Edit - memory like a sieve: think it showed when the D came in and it went to ‘pulse’


So in this case, I'd say it was a detected error that self healed. Also good point about the spin button. That would preclude playing in the background if the freeze was during the scatter drop.

Impossible to say for sure, but I'd say that was the likeliest explanation.
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
As for the matrix games, i kind of agree with you here. I understand the practicalities of why it is done this way, but the fact that not every possibility is available is a let down to me, despite being legitimate.
Aren't megaways just a different kind of matrix game though? and also understandable, why they'd do it.

Most players here have seen the 14,000x win on Bonanza, with diamonds across 5 reels, at 18x multiplier.
And commented on 'what if there was a diamond (or maybe more) on reel 6 too'
Would that really have been possible, at that multiplier (or an even higher multiplier)?
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
Aren't megaways just a different kind of matrix game though? and also understandable, why they'd do it.

Most players here have seen the 14,000x win on Bonanza, with diamonds across 5 reels, at 18x multiplier.
And commented on 'what if there was a diamond (or maybe more) on reel 6 too'
Would that really have been possible, at that multiplier (or an even higher multiplier)?

I've had a brief look at Bonanza and it does have defined reel sets, so i believe it's fully reel based and not 'jammin jars' style. So yeh, theoretically it's possible, best i can tell.
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
I've had a brief look at Bonanza and it does have defined reel sets, so i believe it's fully reel based and not 'jammin jars' style. So yeh, theoretically it's possible, best i can tell.
I don't mean that Bonanza works exactly like Jammin jars, and I'm sure the base game works the same as any other 'normal' game, as far as using reel stips go.
BUT.. What's to say the freespins aren't predetermined?
With all those megaways and multipliers, wouldn't it be safer to run several million bonuses, cherry pick the appropriate sequences, to make the correct RTP and control the maximum win. Then select a sequence at random when the feature is triggered?
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
I can’t see that Bonanza uses fixed reel strips, especially where the scatters are concerned because you never see 2 on the same reel in view unless there is a cascade.

If you then have 2 scatters on 1 reel and you analyse the cascade sometimes there would of only been say 3 or 4 symbols between them. Therefore it should be possible to see 2 in view in normal play given the reels are 6 and 7
deep.

I have also had 6 and 7 nines cascade only to be replaced with another 6 or 7 nines thus meaning there are 14 consecutive. Not saying impossible but highly unlikely.
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
I can’t see that Bonanza uses fixed reel strips, especially where the scatters are concerned because you never see 2 on the same reel in view unless there is a cascade.

If you then have 2 scatters on 1 reel and you analyse the cascade sometimes there would of only been say 3 or 4 symbols between them. Therefore it should be possible to see 2 in view in normal play given the reels are 6 and 7
deep.

I have also had 6 and 7 nines cascade only to be replaced with another 6 or 7 nines thus meaning there are 14 consecutive. Not saying impossible but highly unlikely.


Just because you havent thought about how its possible, dont mean its highly unlikely ;) Its very much possible.
 

PMKFRUITPRO

Meister Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Location
England
U cant get 2 scatters on the same reel upon an ordinary spin. Only from a winning spin and the resulting cascade.
 

PMKFRUITPRO

Meister Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Location
England
95% of the time whatever symbol you get awarded from the GOH bonus it will vanish and go on holiday. It’s funny how nearly every bonus you will see other symbols litter the reels on one spin some landing 3 or 4 deep on one strip. Something that can’t happen to your symbol!!

It seems to me that this bonus over the course of time has been tweaked. When the game was first out GOH was throwing in numerous decent hits. A lot of people now seem to favour HV spins as the GOH seems so blatantly bent. Maybe the original bonus was over generous?? And was a true ‘random spin’ each time before later introducing more gimped reel sets to prevent less monsters on this bonus.

I do still play DHV but the average bonus seems to be incredibly poor. Not only can it make you pay for it but that base is incredibly brutal sometimes.

Obv people will say it’s a very high variance game which I fully understand.

But then so is DOA2 and I see plenty of crazy hits on that!! Which make the regular 10-20X bonuses seem more bearable knowing that it’s more than possible to smash in a monster.

I just don’t see this with DHV and certainly not the gates bonus which by design ‘should’ allow clusters of wilds quite regular. But it clearly doesn’t as it’s a bent bonus!!!
 

PMKFRUITPRO

Meister Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Location
England
It’s all very well BTG saying each spin is a random call to the server during gates. I’m not disputing it is.

But when the reels are gimped from the ordinary reels to make that random call it feels to the player of course that it’s more of a controlled way!

Like putting 20 dice in a bag but 15 of them have the 6 removed. You then select no. 6 as ur symbol. Then the server randomly selects a dice!! It’s still a random call but ur odds are now fucked because of a gimped bag!!
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
It’s all very well BTG saying each spin is a random call to the server during gates. I’m not disputing it is.

But when the reels are gimped from the ordinary reels to make that random call it feels to the player of course that it’s more of a controlled way!

Like putting 20 dice in a bag but 15 of them have the 6 removed. You then select no. 6 as ur symbol. Then the server randomly selects a dice!! It’s still a random call but ur odds are now fucked because of a gimped bag!!

To be honest any seasoned slot player will know that it’s always going to be done like that. In the same way book of ra and clones do it, it’s nothing new.
 

trancemonkey

Ueber Meister
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Location
United Kingdom
To be honest any seasoned slot player will know that it’s always going to be done like that. In the same way book of ra and clones do it, it’s nothing new.

Funnily enough, Book of Ra only has one set of reels for the free games.
 

Siohmy

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Location
Blighty
Funnily enough, Book of Ra only has one set of reels for the free games.

I’d say Book of Ra is probably one of the most honestly presented slots out there. I’m not a huge fan but I totally feel I know where I am with it, it’s general play level, the reel “honesty” and payout potential. It’s a rarity amongst some truly misleading fare which is coming out.
 

SpinUk

Meister Member
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Location
London
I’d say Book of Ra is probably one of the most honestly presented slots out there. I’m not a huge fan but I totally feel I know where I am with it, it’s general play level, the reel “honesty” and payout potential. It’s a rarity amongst some truly misleading fare which is coming out.

Would you say that Book of Ra is higher variance than its sequel Book of Ra deluxe? A bonus on the original does seem much harder to get also but also pays more on average (or is this imagined)
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
I can’t see that Bonanza uses fixed reel strips, especially where the scatters are concerned because you never see 2 on the same reel in view unless there is a cascade.

If you then have 2 scatters on 1 reel and you analyse the cascade sometimes there would of only been say 3 or 4 symbols between them. Therefore it should be possible to see 2 in view in normal play given the reels are 6 and 7
deep.

I have also had 6 and 7 nines cascade only to be replaced with another 6 or 7 nines thus meaning there are 14 consecutive. Not saying impossible but highly unlikely.

It has reel sets defined in the communications, but it also has a second set of variables called 'RSC' which I can only guess stands for 'Reel Scatters'. My assumption (and I've barely looked into this) is that the scatters are somehow defined separately to the main reel sets (some of the reel sets do have a symbol 11 (bonus) whereas others don't). I'll work it out one day... but not today :p
 

Siohmy

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Location
Blighty
Would you say that Book of Ra is higher variance than its sequel Book of Ra deluxe? A bonus on the original does seem much harder to get also but also pays more on average (or is this imagined)

Sorry, I was referring to Deluxe. Hardly played the original as preferred the 10 line version.
 
Top