Danger! High Voltage - Technical Analysis (The best symbol on Gates of Hell and other info)

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
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Feb 24, 2018
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I think you are underestimating or misunderstanding how and why reel weighting works. It really isnt always as simple as weighting a reel band with 100 symbols to behave as if it has 170.

No I am not underestimating or misunderstanding how and why weighting works, the 100 / 170 was just an example of what can be done as all aspects of slots there is many ways to do things. :)
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
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This game maybe best example of how fucking predetermined BTG slots are

Any bonus can be good and any one can be bad. Getting 9's (the best symbol) just gives you the best chance of a good bonus. It can still be rubbish as there are still, relatively, very few 9's on the reels.

Jacks are a pretty poor symbol.

BTG are actually one of the developers who don't determine the whole bonus round up front. They make a request and hit the RNG for every single spin. However, there is nothing wrong with a slot being 'pre-determined'. You have to remember that 'pre-determined' is not 'rigged'. Pre-determined just means that all of the RNG calls are made up front and the spin/bonus results are fully generated before showing you the result. It doesn't have any effect on how random the result is or whether it is a good or bad result.
 

curremon

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"BTG are actually one of the developers who don't determine the whole bonus round up front. " Yeah right...
 

The Reel Story

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"BTG are actually one of the developers who don't determine the whole bonus round up front. " Yeah right...

Believe it or don't (you can check by looking at the client <> server comms to see for yourself) but as I said, it doesn't matter either way. It has no impact on how good or bad your bonus round is. Determining the whole bonus round up front is very common practice.
 

brianmon

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Believe it or don't (you can check by looking at the client <> server comms to see for yourself) but as I said, it doesn't matter either way. It has no impact on how good or bad your bonus round is. Determining the whole bonus round up front is very common practice.
How do you KNOW they aren't predetermined, just from the client-server communications?
The client requesting the next spin, doesn't mean, that next spin is freshly, randomly generated, and not just the next line from a predetermined sequence.

What about the situation someone had in the Bonanza thread, where the client locked-up during the cascade, which triggered the bonus game?
He wasn't even given the screen to start the bonus game, but his casino balance was updated with the result of the freespins.

And of course it's not a good thing to have freespins predetermined, in the way that most large matrix games do (jamin jars, gemix etc)
The final wins have been carefully selected before the games are even released. The distribution of wins and the maximum win are all very carefully controlled.
So, that 'dream' combination of symbols, which you're hoping for, which should be possible (however tiny that possibility is). maybe isn't even included in the database of pre-selected wins.

It also brings into question the claims of some games of 'unlimited multipliers' and 'unlimited spins'
 
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The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
How do you KNOW they aren't predetermined, just from the client-server communications?
The client requesting the next spin, doesn't mean, that next spin is freshly, randomly generated, and not just the next line from a predetermined sequence.

What about the situation someone had in the Bonanza thread, where the client locked-up during the cascade, which triggered the bonus game?
He wasn't even given the screen to start the bonus game, but his casino balance was updated with the result of the freespins.

And of course it's not a good thing to have freespins predetermined, in the way that most large matrix games do (jamin jars, gemix etc)
The final wins have been carefully selected before the games are even released. The distribution of wins and the maximum win are all very carefully controlled.
So, that 'dream' combination of symbols, which you're hoping for, which should be possible (however tiny that possibility is). maybe isn't even included in the database of pre-selected wins.

It also brings into question the claims of some games of 'unlimited multipliers' and 'unlimited spins'

You are right, that could be the case. But i don't believe it is for 2 reasons. 1. It would be a really weird way of implementing. There is nothing wrong with pregenerating the spins, so why go through the trouble of trying to hide it? 2. BTG have stated they always hit the RNG for every spin, and as a reputable slot provider, i believe them.

It doesn't matter at all if it is predetermined, as long as it is all generated after the spin button is pressed. The result is still random. (which is the only way it can be done).

As for the matrix games, i kind of agree with you here. I understand the practicalities of why it is done this way, but the fact that not every possibility is available is a let down to me, despite being legitimate.
 
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snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Any bonus can be good and any one can be bad. Getting 9's (the best symbol) just gives you the best chance of a good bonus. It can still be rubbish as there are still, relatively, very few 9's on the reels.

Jacks are a pretty poor symbol.

BTG are actually one of the developers who don't determine the whole bonus round up front. They make a request and hit the RNG for every single spin. However, there is nothing wrong with a slot being 'pre-determined'. You have to remember that 'pre-determined' is not 'rigged'. Pre-determined just means that all of the RNG calls are made up front and the spin/bonus results are fully generated before showing you the result. It doesn't have any effect on how random the result is or whether it is a good or bad result.
If this is correct how does it explain the bonus round on Bonanza @pinnit2014 had when he triggered it then got disconnected and when he reloaded the total for his round had been already added to his balance?

I am not saying it’s not what happens as in the server making individual calls for each spin I just want to know how it accounts for this scenario.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
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May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
If this is correct how does it explain the bonus round on Bonanza @pinnit2014 had when he triggered it then got disconnected and when he reloaded the total for his round had been already added to his balance?

I am not saying it’s not what happens as in the server making individual calls for each spin I just want to know how it accounts for this scenario.

BTG do have recovery methods if their games error out hard (or for half played sessions over X days old) . It's possible something catastrophic went wrong and the game was unrecoverable. In this case BTG play it out in the background to resolve it and pay the winnings.

This is likely what happened given the error occuring in the first place. Just an act of self healing by the server. Hard to be sure without seeing that exact game though :)
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
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Location
Uk
Ok just trying to get a better understanding of when these things happen, how they are resolved and still not predetermined:thumbsup:.
 

brianmon

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BTG do have recovery methods if their games error out hard (or for half played sessions over X days old) . It's possible something catastrophic went wrong and the game was unrecoverable. In this case BTG play it out in the background to resolve it and pay the winnings.

This is likely what happened given the error occuring in the first place. Just an act of self healing by the server. Hard to be sure without seeing that exact game though :)
New Slot Announcement - Bonanza by Big Time Gaming

The game locked and his balance updated
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
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Location
United Kingdom

Yeh, hard to say, but I'd assume either what i said above and it detected the error and self healed or another possibility is just that the graphics froze, but the game was still playing in the background so it eventually finished but he just couldn't see the graphics changing due to a rendering issue (dodgy memory on the graphics card, that kind of thing).

A lot would depend on how long it took for the balance to update. I.e,was it instant after the error occured, or did he sit and stare at it for 5 mins waiting and trying to get it to work before the balance updated? If he sat there waiting, it's very possible it was just a rendering issue on his comp, and it was actually playing out behind his frozen screen :)
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
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Yeh, hard to say, but I'd assume either what i said above and it detected the error and self healed or another possibility is just that the graphics froze, but the game was still playing in the background so it eventually finished but he just couldn't see the graphics changing due to a rendering issue (dodgy memory on the graphics card, that kind of thing).

A lot would depend on how long it took for the balance to update. I.e,was it instant after the error occured, or did he sit and stare at it for 5 mins waiting and trying to get it to work before the balance updated? If he sat there waiting, it's very possible it was just a rendering issue on his comp, and it was actually playing out behind his frozen screen :)

IRRC the balance was showing at the same time the actual spin occurred.

Edit - memory like a sieve: think it showed when the D came in and it went to ‘pulse’
 

brianmon

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Yeh, hard to say, but I'd assume either what i said above and it detected the error and self healed or another possibility is just that the graphics froze, but the game was still playing in the background so it eventually finished but he just couldn't see the graphics changing due to a rendering issue (dodgy memory on the graphics card, that kind of thing).

A lot would depend on how long it took for the balance to update. I.e,was it instant after the error occured, or did he sit and stare at it for 5 mins waiting and trying to get it to work before the balance updated? If he sat there waiting, it's very possible it was just a rendering issue on his comp, and it was actually playing out behind his frozen screen :)
But if the graphics froze and the game was still playing in the background so it eventually finished.
How did the freespins even start?
He didn't get to the start screen to tell the server to start sending results.
And I'm pretty sure the game always waits for that start button to be pressed, before continuing.

From reading his post, I'd say the balance updated fairly quickly (I'm sure @pinnit2014 can confirm) and the freespins played through after reloading the game.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
IRRC the balance was showing at the same time the actual spin occurred.

Edit - memory like a sieve: think it showed when the D came in and it went to ‘pulse’


So in this case, I'd say it was a detected error that self healed. Also good point about the spin button. That would preclude playing in the background if the freeze was during the scatter drop.

Impossible to say for sure, but I'd say that was the likeliest explanation.
 

brianmon

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As for the matrix games, i kind of agree with you here. I understand the practicalities of why it is done this way, but the fact that not every possibility is available is a let down to me, despite being legitimate.
Aren't megaways just a different kind of matrix game though? and also understandable, why they'd do it.

Most players here have seen the 14,000x win on Bonanza, with diamonds across 5 reels, at 18x multiplier.
And commented on 'what if there was a diamond (or maybe more) on reel 6 too'
Would that really have been possible, at that multiplier (or an even higher multiplier)?
 
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