Danger! High Voltage - Technical Analysis (The best symbol on Gates of Hell and other info)

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
So Danger! High Voltage is, like many others, my favourite slot. So I decided to do some digging around on some of the things that I had questions on and I turned up some pretty interesting information. If you have any questions of your own. Feel free to ask!

I'll do a video at some point explaining all of this, but for now I figured i'd just post it. So here we go:

Q: Do the reel sets change in the bonus rounds?

A: Yes. There are 14 reel sets for Danger! High Voltage in all. 1 is the base game, 10 are the Gates of Hell sets (depending on the symbol you get) and 3 are for the High Voltage bonus round.



Q: So the reel sets change for Gates of Hell. What is the best symbol to be given then?

A: Nine, but here is a list of the symbol frequency on reels 2-5 in order of best to worst (the higher the frequency the better). Taco is a surprisingly good symbol.

1.png


I also went a step further to look at the frequency of the symbols on reels 2, 3, 4 and 5, rather than just the total. This threw up some interesting insights. You can see below how the frequency of symbols gets much less on reels 4 and 5, meaning getting wilds on every reel is actually quite difficult (makes sense as that is what gives you the biggest wins) but some symbols are far less likely to give you the across the board hit than others.

I.E, Disco Balls only having 1 instance on Reel 4 means it's REALLY hard to get a full line, let alone re-trigger on Reel 4.

Taco's and Kings, while having a high number of symbols, really lowers on reel 5, meaning the full line is less likely.

9's are well balanced, but actually have less chance to fill up reels 2 and 3 than many other symbols, so this may explain why people get 9's on a bonus and it sucks (because all the wilds are on reels 4 and 5). I found it pretty interesting!

2.png


Q: What about wilds and x6 wilds, are they symbols on the reels?

A: No, it appears not. Despite the fact that, graphically, you see them spinning past, it appears they can just substitute randomly on reels 2-5. I don't know the probabilities, that will be held on the game server.



Q: What about wilds on the High Voltage feature?

A: Same as above, it seems they occur randomly as a substitute for whatever symbols are on the reels.



Q: You said there are 3 reel sets for the High Voltage feature? What do they do?

A: This is an interesting one. It seems that every spin in High Voltage selects one of 3 reel sets at random (specifically, reel sets 8, 10 and 12). It seems like there is different levels of generosity between the 3. So reel set 8 is the worst, whereas 12 is the best. 12 adds an extra 5 bonus symbols and an extra 6 skulls as well as adding more high paying symbols while removing low paying ones. So you may find that, if you've had a REALLY good run on High Voltage, you were lucky enough to get reel sets 10 and 12 on most of your spins, whereas if you have a shocking run, you were probably getting reel set 8 most of the time.



Q: Does this mean I have to get good reel sets to win anything on High Voltage?

A: No, you can still get retriggers and big hits, even on reel set 8. You just have a higher chance of those things on sets 10 and 12.



Shout if you have questions.
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
I have all 14 reel sets on a sheet somewhere, but never bothered to go through them, as no way to tell for certain what set is used for what or how each set is weighted if at all.

However you havent shown how you come to the conclusion that " nine " is the best to be given as you would need to assess each reel set to come to that conclusion.

Normally in this case the "symbol" chosen is more psychological that its better but often identical overall RTP wise with only the volatility changing.

Also in these types of games where you can pick between more than one choice of free spins, they are normally always worked out so that every set delivers the same RTP overall.

So gates overall should provide the same as high voltage and either, each set of gates provides the same RTP or the RTP is averaged over each of the sets and the same for the 3 sets of HV spins if indeed thats using 3

Like has been explained countless times before having the reel set info is only a little part of the math and how the game works.

For example you could have a reel set 160 long and 4 symbols high but want a wild to land less frequently than 1 in 40 average so you have no wild on the actually reel and another different RNG call to say pick a wild for 1 in 100 for the reel and displays it.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
I have all 14 reel sets on a sheet somewhere, but never bothered to go through them, as no way to tell for certain what set is used for what or how each set is weighted if at all.

However you havent shown how you come to the conclusion that " nine " is the best to be given as you would need to assess each reel set to come to that conclusion.

Normally in this case the "symbol" chosen is more psychological that its better but often identical overall RTP wise with only the volatility changing.

Also in these types of games where you can pick between more than one choice of free spins, they are normally always worked out so that every set delivers the same RTP overall.

So gates overall should provide the same as high voltage and either, each set of gates provides the same RTP or the RTP is averaged over each of the sets and the same for the 3 sets of HV spins if indeed thats using 3

Like has been explained countless times before having the reel set info is only a little part of the math and how the game works.

For example you could have a reel set 160 long and 4 symbols high but want a wild to land less frequently than 1 in 40 average so you have no wild on the actually reel and another different RNG call to say pick a wild for 1 in 100 for the reel and displays it.

First I want to check, can you see the images in my post? The ones showing the symbol frequency? Cause I think that answers a number of the items you posted.

Anyway, i'll address them.

1. You can tell what reel set is in use in 2 ways. First, it says so in the communications (The variables are RID and NRID, assuming for REEL ID and NEXT REEL ID). See this communication during a HV bonus

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=FREE_GAME&B=99009&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.6.1-69-4&RID=8&NRID=12&BPR=5&RB=6&RS=153|46|116|49|42|40|&TW=640&WC=0|0|0|&CW=0&NFG=13&TFG=15&CFGG=2&FGTW=0&IFG=1&FID=1|&MUL=1&SUB=0&GA=0&AB=98369&FRBAL=0&SID=Free:hrio8hl64tn6p99dmqh0bram5pb&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

This says the reel set in use for the current spin and the next reel set that will be used for the next spin.

You can also tell which reel set is which by the symbol frequency. For gates, the reel set used for the symbol 9 is the set with the least 9's in it :)

The symbol frequency also tells you what symbol is the best in gates. More symbols, more chances of wilds. Again, if you can't see the images, let me know.

2. The RTP listed in the help screen ranges, so one bonus round is slightly better than the other (I don't know which). The RTP's for the individual gates symbols absolutely differ (skulls suck, 9's are best, as you should be able to see in the images). Because the symbol selected for gates is random and not user chosen, the RTP takes into account that the symbol you get is random. If you simulate that slot a few million spins selecting only gates each time, you'll get the RTP because the symbol selection is random.

3. Well aware that the reel sets are only part of the equation. That is why I only provided information I can prove. Note that I said that the wilds are NOT symbols on the reels, are are random some how, and said I was unable to provide the probabilities.
 
Last edited:

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
I have all 14 reel sets on a sheet somewhere, but never bothered to go through them, as no way to tell for certain what set is used for what or how each set is weighted if at all.

However you havent shown how you come to the conclusion that " nine " is the best to be given as you would need to assess each reel set to come to that conclusion.

Normally in this case the "symbol" chosen is more psychological that its better but often identical overall RTP wise with only the volatility changing.

Also in these types of games where you can pick between more than one choice of free spins, they are normally always worked out so that every set delivers the same RTP overall.

So gates overall should provide the same as high voltage and either, each set of gates provides the same RTP or the RTP is averaged over each of the sets and the same for the 3 sets of HV spins if indeed thats using 3

Like has been explained countless times before having the reel set info is only a little part of the math and how the game works.

For example you could have a reel set 160 long and 4 symbols high but want a wild to land less frequently than 1 in 40 average so you have no wild on the actually reel and another different RNG call to say pick a wild for 1 in 100 for the reel and displays it.


P.S, just for your benefit The symbol numbers are:

1 Skull
2 Bell
3 Disco Ball
4 Taco
5 Ace
6 King
7 Queen
8 Jack
9 Ten
10 Nine
11 Bonus

The reel sets used are

RS 0 = Base
RS 1 = Gates King
RS 2 = Gates Ace
RS 3 = Gates Taco
RS 4 = Gates Disco Ball
RS 5 = Gates Bell
RS 6 = Gates Skull
RS 7 = Gates Nine
RS 8 = High Voltage
RS 9 = Gates Ten
RS 10 = High Voltage
RS 11 = Gates Jack
RS 12 = High Voltage
RS 13 = Gates Queen
 

dave1888

Ueber Meister
PABnononaccred2
mm1
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Location
Bonnie Scotland!
So in theory picking HV is best chance as 1 in 10 chance of poor reel set on Gates and 1 in 3 for best set on HV ;)
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
So in theory picking HV is best chance as 1 in 10 chance of poor reel set on Gates and 1 in 3 for best set on HV ;)

Unfortunately not that simple. Every spin on HV chooses one of the 3 reel sets to use, and i can't say for sure that it is a 1 in 3 chance of getting the best one (just because there are 3 reel sets, doesn't mean it is 1 in 3).

Same goes for gates 3 of the symbols are obviously poor (skulls, bells, disco balls) but i can't say for sure that the symbol selection is 1 in 10. There might be weightings.

Its also impossible to say (without simulation or some serious maths work) how each bonus compares to each other. Consistent bad rounds on gates may not be as bad as consistent bad rounds on HV. Not possible to tell.

So i can't advise on which bonus is best to pick, can only help you understand the results you get.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
So if there are 3 reel sets for HV but the chances of getting the best one may not be one in three then do we have to assume there is something else going on.
As in another set of numbers, say 1 to 10 where the best strip is represented by 1 and 2 the next best by 3,4 and 5 and the worst by 6-10 or similar and the server possibly asks for another number to determine which set you get but from a weighted set of numbers.

Therefore instead of a 33.3% chance of the best strip you have a 20% chance.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
So if there are 3 reel sets for HV but the chances of getting the best one may not be one in three then do we have to assume there is something else going on.
As in another set of numbers, say 1 to 10 where the best strip is represented by 1 and 2 the next best by 3,4 and 5 and the worst by 6-10 or similar and the server possibly asks for another number to determine which set you get but from a weighted set of numbers.

Therefore instead of a 33.3% chance of the best strip you have a 20% chance.

Exactly right. You can never tell what is going on on the server without seeing it, simulating it or getting a shed load of spin data to analyse.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Exactly right. You can never tell what is going on on the server without seeing it, simulating it or getting a shed load of spin data to analyse.
So players like myself who aren’t programmers can start to see how these slots work. It’s easy to see why people would say rigged because essentially it is as far as you don’t know how far the goal posts are being moved.

It’s all very clever really, in as much as all this manipulation of outcomes is acceptable and still allowed to be called random. As you will know if you’ve been reading the forums for a while I am one of the chief tinfoilers.

I have always known that it cannot be as straightforward as we are led to believe but I have always stated that as long as I am aware of to what degree and how I am being shafted then I can make a choice of whether I find that acceptable or not.

This sort of insight helps a great deal and is about the same stage after many hours of arduous battles that I had reached with @trancemonkey in as much as I now understand how it’s deemed as random.

With a game like DHV from reading your post if I am understanding it correctly the reel strips are fixed and weighted accordingly. The server asks for numbers and the symbols land to give a true representation of the outcome.

My question here is what about games like Napoleon (don’t know if your familiar with it) where the reel strips aren’t fixed or if they are the visual representation is not taken directly from them. How does this work? What is happening in this case?
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
So players like myself who aren’t programmers can start to see how these slots work. It’s easy to see why people would say rigged because essentially it is as far as you don’t know how far the goal posts are being moved.

It’s all very clever really, in as much as all this manipulation of outcomes is acceptable and still allowed to be called random. As you will know if you’ve been reading the forums for a while I am one of the chief tinfoilers.

I have always known that it cannot be as straightforward as we are led to believe but I have always stated that as long as I am aware of to what degree and how I am being shafted then I can make a choice of whether I find that acceptable or not.

This sort of insight helps a great deal and is about the same stage after many hours of arduous battles that I had reached with @trancemonkey in as much as I now understand how it’s deemed as random.

With a game like DHV from reading your post if I am understanding it correctly the reel strips are fixed and weighted accordingly. The server asks for numbers and the symbols land to give a true representation of the outcome.

My question here is what about games like Napoleon (don’t know if your familiar with it) where the reel strips aren’t fixed or if they are the visual representation is not taken directly from them. How does this work? What is happening in this case?

Yes, it's all about the presentation. The classic one is the 'wheel'. Say it has 5 segments, all the same size with one that says £1M JACKPOT. The result is random, you might win a jackpot, but the probability is definitely NOT 1 in 5, so the presentation of the randomness is disingenuous. But that's the game. Providers and Casino's pay a surprising amount of money to look at slot analytics and to understand psychology. It's all about making the player FEEL like they're about to win, but over time the math model will take from them. Still random, still hits the RTP as that is what the math model produces, but you can present that result any way you wish, and that's the art.

Check out my videos in this thread How Slots Work, are made and adjusted - Informational Videos for a bit more of a graphical insight. I even take you line by line through the code of a simple slot in the RTP video.

As for Napoleon, I am familiar, but it is not on the Casino I use, so i'll have to find another to look into it properly. I would be very surprised if the reel sets were not defined. That would be quite rare. It could feasibly randomise each symbol with a weighting toward the probability of a particular symbol appearing, but it's generally considered bad design. Primarily because it lacks the control that reel sets give.

With reel sets, careful design can minimise the maximum hit you can get. I.E if there aren't enough grouped wilds to give a full screen of wilds, then it isn't possible. If you randomise each symbol, then it would mean, theoretically, you could get a full screen of wilds. You could then put in limits, so it only randomises in a maximum of 5 wilds etc, but that starts to get more complicate than using reel sets, so it would be an odd decision.

Anyway, i'll try to look at it when I get a min. I think I have a Unibet account where it's available.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
So players like myself who aren’t programmers can start to see how these slots work. It’s easy to see why people would say rigged because essentially it is as far as you don’t know how far the goal posts are being moved.

It’s all very clever really, in as much as all this manipulation of outcomes is acceptable and still allowed to be called random. As you will know if you’ve been reading the forums for a while I am one of the chief tinfoilers.

I have always known that it cannot be as straightforward as we are led to believe but I have always stated that as long as I am aware of to what degree and how I am being shafted then I can make a choice of whether I find that acceptable or not.

This sort of insight helps a great deal and is about the same stage after many hours of arduous battles that I had reached with @trancemonkey in as much as I now understand how it’s deemed as random.

With a game like DHV from reading your post if I am understanding it correctly the reel strips are fixed and weighted accordingly. The server asks for numbers and the symbols land to give a true representation of the outcome.

My question here is what about games like Napoleon (don’t know if your familiar with it) where the reel strips aren’t fixed or if they are the visual representation is not taken directly from them. How does this work? What is happening in this case?

Ok, so I had a poke about in Napoleon. It's... odd. There is evidence that there are reel sets defined somewhere. They don't come from the server (that I can see) which means they would have to be held in the game client code if they were to be used graphically, but trawling through it I've been unable to find them so far.

The following is the response from the server when the game is loaded

Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<GameResponse commonLibVersion="1.0.0.7" gameVersion="1.0.0.0">
  <header>
    <sessionid>DEMOMODE_82-4-236-17</sessionid>
    <userid>undefined</userid>
    <gameid>napoleon</gameid>
    <timestamp>19-05-6 14:22:53.69</timestamp>
    <sequence>0</sequence>
    <clientid>59248</clientid>
    <server>live16</server>
    <version>1.22.1.4-beta</version>
  </header>
  <Account freebet="0.00" balance="990.00" currencyCode="" />
  <Init profile="standard" rtp="95.96">
    <InitReel ***stopPos="4,0,62,20,3"*** ***symInView="4,4,4|2,2,2|1,1,1|0,0,0|3,3,3"*** />
    <Paytable>
      <Symbol index="0" countForWin="3" multipliers="20,40,80" />
      <Symbol index="1" countForWin="3" multipliers="20,40,80" />
      <Symbol index="2" countForWin="3" multipliers="20,80,160" />
      <Symbol index="3" countForWin="3" multipliers="20,80,160" />
      <Symbol index="4" countForWin="3" multipliers="40,120,320" />
      <Symbol index="5" countForWin="3" multipliers="40,120,320" />
      <Symbol index="6" countForWin="3" multipliers="80,160,480" />
      <Symbol index="7" countForWin="3" multipliers="160,320,640" />
      <Symbol index="8" countForWin="2" multipliers="160,320,640,1600" />
      <Symbol index="9" countForWin="2" multipliers="400,800,1200,4000" />
      <Symbol index="10" countForWin="2" multipliers="400,800,1200,100000" />
      <Symbol index="11" countForWin="3" multipliers="" />
      <Symbol index="12" countForWin="3" multipliers="" />
    </Paytable>
    <WinlineData>
      <WinlineSet name="standard">
        <Line id="0" offset="1,1,1,1,1" />
        <Line id="1" offset="0,0,0,0,0" />
        <Line id="2" offset="2,2,2,2,2" />
        <Line id="3" offset="0,1,2,1,0" />
        <Line id="4" offset="2,1,0,1,2" />
        <Line id="5" offset="1,2,2,2,1" />
        <Line id="6" offset="1,0,0,0,1" />
        <Line id="7" offset="2,2,1,0,0" />
        <Line id="8" offset="0,0,1,2,2" />
        <Line id="9" offset="2,1,1,1,0" />
        <Line id="10" offset="0,1,1,1,2" />
        <Line id="11" offset="1,2,1,0,1" />
        <Line id="12" offset="1,0,1,2,1" />
        <Line id="13" offset="0,1,0,1,0" />
        <Line id="14" offset="2,1,2,1,2" />
        <Line id="15" offset="1,1,0,1,1" />
        <Line id="16" offset="1,1,2,1,1" />
        <Line id="17" offset="0,2,0,2,0" />
        <Line id="18" offset="2,0,2,0,2" />
        <Line id="19" offset="2,0,1,0,2" />
      </WinlineSet>
    </WinlineData>
    <GameSettings minStake="0.20" maxStake="100.00" maxWinnings="250000.00" totalStakeIncrements="0.20|0.40|0.60|0.80|1.00|2.00|3.00|4.00|5.00|10.00|20.00|30.00|40.00" defaultStake="2.00" autoPlay="1" betHistoryViewer="0" />
  </Init>
</GameResponse>

You can see that I've highlighted with stars 'StopPos' and 'SymInView'. This is for what the reels look like when you first load the game. They always appear to be the same (at least loading in demo mode) and they aren't the values in SymInView, so i'd assume they must be the values in StopPos (as in, reel stop positions). Now, it could be the game client hard codes the symbols in view when the game first loads, but it would then be odd for StopPos to actually have some values set. So it does feel like there are reel sets. I just can't find them (will try again at some point).

What is more odd is that, when the game is played, reel stop positions are NOT used, or at least, not directly.

Code:
<GameResponse commonLibVersion="1.0.0.7" gameVersion="1.0.0.0">
  <header>
    <sessionid>DEMOMODE_82-4-236-17</sessionid>
    <userid>undefined</userid>
    <gameid>napoleon</gameid>
    <timestamp>19-05-6 14:07:07.35</timestamp>
    <sequence>0</sequence>
    <clientid>10758</clientid>
  </header>
  <Account freebet="0.00" balance="990.00" currencyCode="" />
  <Play seed="634224" rewardGame="False" currentWinnings="4.00" bonusWinnings="0.00" totalWinnings="4.00" finalWin="4.00" betid="DEMO">
    <SpinResult ***symInView="5,4,3|2,6,3|0,1,10|3,0,2|10,4,0"*** wildMultiplier="2">
      <LineWin line="2" winSym="3" payout="40" winnings="4.00" reelIndex="0,1,2" rowIndex="2,2,2" posIndex="2,5,8" linePosIndex="2,5,8,11,14" containsWild="True" wildFactor="2" />
    </SpinResult>
  </Play>
</GameResponse>

This is the response from the server when the game plays a spin. You can see symInView here, which DOES relate to the symbols show. That means the server is telling the game client exactly what symbols to show, not what reel positions to stop at. It's possible they use the symbols to show and match that to a reel stop position that they then display, but that would be fraught with possible error (possible duplicate groupings) and ridiculously over complicated.

So it's inconsistent and it appears the server tells the game directly what symbols to show. This would make it unlikely that reel sets were used in a spin from a graphical standpoint. Beyond that, there isn't much I can tell you. The logic that defines what symbols are selected, their probability, the limits to how many of them can be shown etc etc will all be held on the game server. It is very possible they use reel sets that are held server side, and to hide their maths from prying eyes (like mine) they only send through the symbols. This is the most logical answer, but means there is little additional information I can give.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Ok, so I had a poke about in Napoleon. It's... odd. There is evidence that there are reel sets defined somewhere. They don't come from the server (that I can see) which means they would have to be held in the game client code if they were to be used graphically, but trawling through it I've been unable to find them so far.

The following is the response from the server when the game is loaded

Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<GameResponse commonLibVersion="1.0.0.7" gameVersion="1.0.0.0">
  <header>
    <sessionid>DEMOMODE_82-4-236-17</sessionid>
    <userid>undefined</userid>
    <gameid>napoleon</gameid>
    <timestamp>19-05-6 14:22:53.69</timestamp>
    <sequence>0</sequence>
    <clientid>59248</clientid>
    <server>live16</server>
    <version>1.22.1.4-beta</version>
  </header>
  <Account freebet="0.00" balance="990.00" currencyCode="" />
  <Init profile="standard" rtp="95.96">
    <InitReel ***stopPos="4,0,62,20,3"*** ***symInView="4,4,4|2,2,2|1,1,1|0,0,0|3,3,3"*** />
    <Paytable>
      <Symbol index="0" countForWin="3" multipliers="20,40,80" />
      <Symbol index="1" countForWin="3" multipliers="20,40,80" />
      <Symbol index="2" countForWin="3" multipliers="20,80,160" />
      <Symbol index="3" countForWin="3" multipliers="20,80,160" />
      <Symbol index="4" countForWin="3" multipliers="40,120,320" />
      <Symbol index="5" countForWin="3" multipliers="40,120,320" />
      <Symbol index="6" countForWin="3" multipliers="80,160,480" />
      <Symbol index="7" countForWin="3" multipliers="160,320,640" />
      <Symbol index="8" countForWin="2" multipliers="160,320,640,1600" />
      <Symbol index="9" countForWin="2" multipliers="400,800,1200,4000" />
      <Symbol index="10" countForWin="2" multipliers="400,800,1200,100000" />
      <Symbol index="11" countForWin="3" multipliers="" />
      <Symbol index="12" countForWin="3" multipliers="" />
    </Paytable>
    <WinlineData>
      <WinlineSet name="standard">
        <Line id="0" offset="1,1,1,1,1" />
        <Line id="1" offset="0,0,0,0,0" />
        <Line id="2" offset="2,2,2,2,2" />
        <Line id="3" offset="0,1,2,1,0" />
        <Line id="4" offset="2,1,0,1,2" />
        <Line id="5" offset="1,2,2,2,1" />
        <Line id="6" offset="1,0,0,0,1" />
        <Line id="7" offset="2,2,1,0,0" />
        <Line id="8" offset="0,0,1,2,2" />
        <Line id="9" offset="2,1,1,1,0" />
        <Line id="10" offset="0,1,1,1,2" />
        <Line id="11" offset="1,2,1,0,1" />
        <Line id="12" offset="1,0,1,2,1" />
        <Line id="13" offset="0,1,0,1,0" />
        <Line id="14" offset="2,1,2,1,2" />
        <Line id="15" offset="1,1,0,1,1" />
        <Line id="16" offset="1,1,2,1,1" />
        <Line id="17" offset="0,2,0,2,0" />
        <Line id="18" offset="2,0,2,0,2" />
        <Line id="19" offset="2,0,1,0,2" />
      </WinlineSet>
    </WinlineData>
    <GameSettings minStake="0.20" maxStake="100.00" maxWinnings="250000.00" totalStakeIncrements="0.20|0.40|0.60|0.80|1.00|2.00|3.00|4.00|5.00|10.00|20.00|30.00|40.00" defaultStake="2.00" autoPlay="1" betHistoryViewer="0" />
  </Init>
</GameResponse>

You can see that I've highlighted with stars 'StopPos' and 'SymInView'. This is for what the reels look like when you first load the game. They always appear to be the same (at least loading in demo mode) and they aren't the values in SymInView, so i'd assume they must be the values in StopPos (as in, reel stop positions). Now, it could be the game client hard codes the symbols in view when the game first loads, but it would then be odd for StopPos to actually have some values set. So it does feel like there are reel sets. I just can't find them (will try again at some point).

What is more odd is that, when the game is played, reel stop positions are NOT used, or at least, not directly.

Code:
<GameResponse commonLibVersion="1.0.0.7" gameVersion="1.0.0.0">
  <header>
    <sessionid>DEMOMODE_82-4-236-17</sessionid>
    <userid>undefined</userid>
    <gameid>napoleon</gameid>
    <timestamp>19-05-6 14:07:07.35</timestamp>
    <sequence>0</sequence>
    <clientid>10758</clientid>
  </header>
  <Account freebet="0.00" balance="990.00" currencyCode="" />
  <Play seed="634224" rewardGame="False" currentWinnings="4.00" bonusWinnings="0.00" totalWinnings="4.00" finalWin="4.00" betid="DEMO">
    <SpinResult ***symInView="5,4,3|2,6,3|0,1,10|3,0,2|10,4,0"*** wildMultiplier="2">
      <LineWin line="2" winSym="3" payout="40" winnings="4.00" reelIndex="0,1,2" rowIndex="2,2,2" posIndex="2,5,8" linePosIndex="2,5,8,11,14" containsWild="True" wildFactor="2" />
    </SpinResult>
  </Play>
</GameResponse>

This is the response from the server when the game plays a spin. You can see symInView here, which DOES relate to the symbols show. That means the server is telling the game client exactly what symbols to show, not what reel positions to stop at. It's possible they use the symbols to show and match that to a reel stop position that they then display, but that would be fraught with possible error (possible duplicate groupings) and ridiculously over complicated.

So it's inconsistent and it appears the server tells the game directly what symbols to show. This would make it unlikely that reel sets were used in a spin from a graphical standpoint. Beyond that, there isn't much I can tell you. The logic that defines what symbols are selected, their probability, the limits to how many of them can be shown etc etc will all be held on the game server. It is very possible they use reel sets that are held server side, and to hide their maths from prying eyes (like mine) they only send through the symbols. This is the most logical answer, but means there is little additional information I can give.
It’s the most obvious game to me that what your seeing has nothing to do with the proper reel sets (if there is any).

You get so many soldiers and wilds yet they always just fail to connect. I have enough near miss screenies to decorate the living room.

When you play the game you never get 2 soldiers in view on the same reel. Yet if you look below at the symbols that are directly underneath the main screen you will on countless occasions see the soldiers hat where it can’t possibly appear. In this example on reel 3 it even shows them adjacent to each other. Yet this cannot happen on the main screen. 561A65D1-29BE-45DE-8431-D94D2285F7CA.png
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
It’s the most obvious game to me that what your seeing has nothing to do with the proper reel sets (if there is any).

You get so many soldiers and wilds yet they always just fail to connect. I have enough near miss screenies to decorate the living room.

When you play the game you never get 2 soldiers in view on the same reel. Yet if you look below at the symbols that are directly underneath the main screen you will on countless occasions see the soldiers hat where it can’t possibly appear. In this example on reel 3 it even shows them adjacent to each other. Yet this cannot happen on the main screen. View attachment 108499

Yep, it does appear, at least graphically, that there is no reel set in use for the display of the reels. They probably just pad it out with random symbols.

For the actual symbols in view my guess would be that reel sets are in use, but held on the server. I agree that 'near misses' do feel common on that game, but I have no statistics to back that up, and I don't trust my own anecdotal evidence.

It would be highly unlikely that the 'near misses' are engineered. I.E, they put a soldier 1 stop out of position on purpose. This was something that happened a long long time ago on very early slots (so the server would only tell you the winning lines and symbols the game client would make up the rest), and sometimes game developers would make it show 'near misses'. This disappeared very quickly though and I've not seen any evidence of it in a long time. I absolutely wouldn't expect it from Blueprint either, as they're a solid and reputable provider.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
There are a few games I have noticed that do this. DOA is another where 2 scatters never appear on the same reel yet you can have 1 in the centre (vertically on a reel) and one just showing above.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
There are a few games I have noticed that do this. DOA is another where 2 scatters never appear on the same reel yet you can have 1 in the centre (vertically on a reel) and one just showing above.

Yeh, not all providers feel the need to animate actual reel sets (it's fairly complicated to do well) so faking everything but the actual outcome is fairly common. Next Gen were one of the first to animate actual reel sets. They were super proud of it. I remember them telling me about how long it took them to produce the mechanism for it to make it look good :)

A really common early technique was just to put a 'blur' over the reel to make it look like it was spinning, then just disappear it to view the result. Can't really get away with that now days though as it looks awful haha.
 

JohnSnow

Experienced Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Location
Netherlands
This is actually the only BTG game I play right now. For some reason I'm addicted to this yet my biggest win ever was about 450x on €1 bet. I wonder when I will ever get 1000x or more, overall from all time play I think I'm only down a little on this game across different casino's.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
Thanks for this mate, good work. I always assumed DHV was using different reel sets in the gates bonus as its the only way it could feasibly work. You'd be surprised of the amount of people who don't realise that different reel sets are used in games though!

I've probably had most luck with the K symbol overall.
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
Yep, it does appear, at least graphically, that there is no reel set in use for the display of the reels. They probably just pad it out with random symbols.

For the actual symbols in view my guess would be that reel sets are in use, but held on the server. I agree that 'near misses' do feel common on that game, but I have no statistics to back that up, and I don't trust my own anecdotal evidence.

It would be highly unlikely that the 'near misses' are engineered. I.E, they put a soldier 1 stop out of position on purpose. This was something that happened a long long time ago on very early slots (so the server would only tell you the winning lines and symbols the game client would make up the rest), and sometimes game developers would make it show 'near misses'. This disappeared very quickly though and I've not seen any evidence of it in a long time. I absolutely wouldn't expect it from Blueprint either, as they're a solid and reputable provider.


I dont know either on this but how i would make the near misses is use several sets of reels selected at random.

Eg 1 set has loads of wilds on reel 3,4,5 one set reel 1 4 5 one set 1 5 one 2, 4,5 etc etc so that overall it looks like near misses on wilds over all reels over loads of spins but never hitting all at the same time to hit a monster but still a very tiny chance to hit a monster etc etc OR of course it could just be using a "jammin jars" method....... only the provider will know for sure.

As for the double symbols that dont mean its not using reel strips but could just mean being lazy with the top and bottom out of view symbols or animation.

As for the animating the actual reel strips it is actually VERY easy its how i do it on my SIMs

Just calculate how many symbols each reel travels on the spin and cut into it from that many symbols away straight after they start spinning, so that by the time the reel has finished the correct symbol is on display.

However providers wouldn't want to show real reel strips in the animation generally as with a lot of patience and spins you could start to build the strips yourself from that.

The fact that BTG havent hidden them within client side is most likely because the stips alone are no real help on there games due to other factors eg how megaways are determined and outcomes that are independent of reel strips like the wilds on DHV.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
I dont know either on this but how i would make the near misses is use several sets of reels selected at random.

Eg 1 set has loads of wilds on reel 3,4,5 one set reel 1 4 5 one set 1 5 one 2, 4,5 etc etc so that overall it looks like near misses on wilds over all reels over loads of spins but never hitting all at the same time to hit a monster but still a very tiny chance to hit a monster etc etc OR of course it could just be using a "jammin jars" method....... only the provider will know for sure.

As for the double symbols that dont mean its not using reel strips but could just mean being lazy with the top and bottom out of view symbols or animation.

That'd certainly be one way of doing it. I'd still feel like that was engineering near misses and a slightly morally ropey technique though. Still not sure Blueprint would go there. Who knows though. Been a long long time since I worked with them haha.

As for the animating the actual reel strips it is actually VERY easy its how i do it on my SIMs

Just calculate how many symbols each reel travels on the spin and cut into it from that many symbols away straight after they start spinning, so that by the time the reel has finished the correct symbol is on display.

Sorry, I should have clarified, I mean animating the reels as if they were mechanical reels. I.E, no cuts or skips from one spin to the next. That is much more tricky to do when you have reels >100 symbols long and you still want to maintain a consistent spin time and reel stop timing.

As you say, doing it with cuts etc is very easy.

However providers wouldn't want to show real reel strips in the animation generally as with a lot of patience and spins you could start to build the strips yourself from that.

The fact that BTG havent hidden them within client side is most likely because the stips alone are no real help on there games due to other factors eg how megaways are determined and outcomes that are independent of reel strips like the wilds on DHV.

It depends on the provider I think. I just don't think BTG really care. They seem fairly open as a company from what I've seen of them. If someone can take your math model, all they can do is replicate your game but.... what would be the point in that? To get a version on a hooky Casino? Probably not even worth the trouble.

I think there is enough information just in those reel sets that you could replicate DHV if you really wanted. If you put together a copy of the game and then just tweaked the things you didn't know (wild frequencies etc) until you hit a similar RTP, you wouldn't be far off. BTG seem to be more concerned with realism and transparency. They WANT people to know that they use legitimate reels. They WANT people to know that they hit the RNG for every single spin (even in free spins, regardless of how inefficient that is). It's just a culture of fairness thing I think (again, from what I've seen of them and posts they make on forums etc).
 
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