Corrupt Online Gaming

[X-Raided]

Not everyone here at Casinomeister feels the need to run for most posts of the year award! As far as spell check is concerned, any one who has never spelled a word wrong will become perfectionist poster of the year.

Thank you Jod. Since joining here, I always wanted to
be mildly put in place by you.

Your feisty tones make my heart skip a beat...

 

[Nifty29]

Thank you Jod. Since joining here, I always wanted to
be mildly put in place by you.

Your feisty tones make my heart skip a beat...

Phew!

Lucky I re-read that post.

I thought you said "Your fiesty TONGUE"

Skiny. ....... don't say a word.

 

[ksech]

Get yourself a good Jewish accountant and find some bonds
and stocks to invest your thousands a month on.

Also, spell checker is your friend.

P.S. Do you post once a year?
You've been a member since Jan 2007 and only have 4 posts accumulated.

What is the relevance of this remark? Maybe her previous 4 posts have been noteworthy? Not everyone likes to debate in a public fora.

And as far as the spellchecker, not everyone can spell or use punctuation correctly.

@skiny: you have brought forth some really well thought responses. I think they are right-on and couldn't have been worded any better.

If you go through and read any section of this forum, you find legitimate complaints against online casinos of EVERY platform. The original post to the thread may have let the imagination run wild with "conspiracy theory", but in this persons' mind his OPINION of what was happening was real enough to bring the issue to the forefront.

What about heador's complaint against Slots of Fortune in the Complaints:Bonus issues section? Here you have a casino claiming denial of winnings over advantage play/ a gambling syndication/ bonus abuse, or what-have-you. They've manipulated the T&Cs, after the fact, to cover their butts. The Rep for SOF comes into the public fora and claims this player is a "mulitple platform" bonus abuser, but evades the question of how this can be known.

How about the case of Jackpot Capital vs. skiny? I didn't keep track of the casinos I had accounts closed at and I certainly didn't keep track of which casino belonged to which group in the last 10 years of playing online.

The list goes on and on, with valid questions being posed. What gets me, are how many of these questions are being evaded. Players need to look out for other players, but beware! This may be looked upon as some type of syndicate...players Vs. online casinos. T&Cs can be manipulated, RTP can be manipulated. I personally think, as a compromise to the UIGEA gets closer, you will find on-the-fence casinos will fall to the roadside as they become greedier in their attempts to get as much as they can for as long as they can.

Once some decision concerning the UIGEA is resolved, most of these ship-in-the-night casinos will disappear. They'll have lost their loyal player base, because of "negative player" issues, "bonus banning" their loyal players, or whatever other ridiculous issue they can find to screw the player.

You would think these casinos would be falling all over themselves to KEEP the player bases they are forming instead of treating them as if they were a dime a dozen mentality. The US player who wants to gamble, has so many limitations on where they can play, how they can deposit, etc. Can these casinos really afford to lose their US players?

 

[skiny]

Another derail, I'm afraid - Skiny, isn't that painting one of Michaelangelo's from the Sistine Chapel ceiling?

Yes it is. A very small portion of the ceiling, I might add. Michaelangelo was also famous for his sculpture of the David. He was later quoted saying "Well, in David's defense he had just been swimming."

Phew!

Lucky I re-read that post.

I thought you said "Your fiesty TONGUE"

Skiny. ....... don't say a word.

Why does everyone assume I'M going to say something?

 

[chayton]

Why does everyone assume I'M going to say something?

percipience?

(ha...got to use the word of the day - in yo face Webster!)

 

[Casinomeister]

...And as far as the spellchecker, not everyone can spell or use punctuation correctly.

Admin note: I'd guess that about 40-50% of the members here are non-native English speakers. Many don't use spell check since it would be checking spelling for Dutch, German, Finnish, etc. And some native speakers just skipp that proces

...Once some decision concerning the UIGEA is resolved, most of these ship-in-the-night casinos will disappear...

I'm really not too sure about this. Like the ol' saying goes: "be careful what you wish for." or better yet: "We're from the government, and we're here to help."

Once the US government gets involved with online gaming, you can be sure that US players and affiliates will end up whining in big numbers. Affiliates will have to fill out w-2 forms (regardless of where you pay your taxes). And big winners will be required report their winnings via the casino. I think the IRS will take a lot of the "fun" out of online gaming with their bureaucracy and red-tape.

And the conspiracy theorists will be howling at the fact that US players will be listed in some databases stored in a secret location which includes all of your personal data, to include how you fund your casino accounts, how much you win, how much you lose, how often you cash out, your hair and eye color...

...don't think they won't ask for your SSN.

I'm glad I live in Bierland

 

[ksech]

Admin note: I'd guess that about 40-50% of the members here are non-native English speakers. Many don't use spell check since it would be checking spelling for Dutch, German, Finnish, etc. And some native speakers just skipp that proces


Which has me wondering from a thread bisbis started...Since I've never used a translator, did their "supposed" chat session contain what a translator would have deciphered the chat to be or was this their interpretation?



I'm really not too sure about this. Like the ol' saying goes: "be careful what you wish for." or better yet: "We're from the government, and we're here to help."

Once the US government gets involved with online gaming, you can be sure that US players and affiliates will end up whining in big numbers. Affiliates will have to fill out w-2 forms (regardless of where you pay your taxes). And big winners will be required report their winnings via the casino. I think the IRS will take a lot of the "fun" out of online gaming with their bureaucracy and red-tape.

And the conspiracy theorists will be howling at the fact that US players will be listed in some databases stored in a secret location which includes all of your personal data, to include how you fund your casino accounts, how much you win, how much you lose, how often you cash out, your hair and eye color...

...don't think they won't ask for your SSN.

I'm glad I live in Bierland

I had thought of this also re: the IRS. IF some of the land based casinos are given "permission" to open online gaming sites, how will this affect players from other countries? I would be interested in getting anyones take on this?
(But perhaps a new thread would be better for this debate?)

 

[liseleva]

Get yourself a good Jewish accountant and find some bonds
and stocks to invest your thousands a month on.

Also, spell checker is your friend.

P.S. Do you post once a year?
You've been a member since Jan 2007 and only have 4 posts accumulated.

well in regards to my spelling i did not know that it would make some of you talk and as for my post buddy the reason i was not writing anything was because i was foolish enough to be dumping my money in the casino.so this forum is good to read but i don't have the need to write to people like you who are all for the online casinos.

 

[Casinomeister]

I had thought of this also re: the IRS. IF some of the land based casinos are given "permission" to open online gaming sites, how will this affect players from other countries? I would be interested in getting anyones take on this?
(But perhaps a new thread would be better for this debate?)

I would guess that "foreigners" would be treated the same at a US based online casino as a land based one. In Vegas, if you win over x amount (I think it's $1500), you have to produce a passport and fill out forms for the IRS.

Maybe there are members here who have won gobs of money in Vegas and had a hand-pay out. Perhaps they could let us know.

Simmo - are you there?

 

[X-Raided]

well in regards to my spelling i did not know that it would make some of you talk and as for my post buddy the reason i was not writing anything was because i was foolish enough to be dumping my money in the casino.so this forum is good to read but i don't have the need to write to people like you who are all for the online casinos.

Who says that "I'm all for the online casinos"?
Microgaming casinos are amongst the highest rated
and honest places to play at.. (Assuming that you bet your
thousands a month at an accredited Microgaming casino)
Then you can blame it on bad luck or your betting size
was too high. I can agree that MG has probably gotten tighter over
past year/years, but if you play for recreation and not as
a full-time job, then you should be okay.

Here's an example of recreational gambling... I have $60 in
my bank account that I don't want to buy anything with.
I deposit at 32Red for example, I bring up my $60 initial deposit
to $530. I cash out, now that was FUN!

If your Canadian, then drive over to Montreal and try the stationary
boat casino they have with 3 floors of gaming galore. Take your thousands
a month and try to double or triple it. But what would you say if you lost
it all there too?

 

[KasinoKing]

Once the US government gets involved with online gaming, you can be sure that US players and affiliates will end up whining in big numbers. Affiliates will have to fill out w-2 forms (regardless of where you pay your taxes). And big winners will be required report their winnings via the casino. I think the IRS will take a lot of the "fun" out of online gaming with their bureaucracy and red-tape.

That reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask for ages:
If the IRS impose a tax on players when they win big, can the players go on to claim that tax back when they lose big?

If not, that's extremely unfair and maybe that's one of the reasons the UK Government decided to scrap all betting tax in the last century... ?

KK

 

[oldtrvlagt]

As it is now...you want to be able to prove losses that are equal to or greater than any reportable win. If I win $2400 at a B & M I'd better be able to prove that I have spent $2400 (ATM withdrawals at a casino, win/loss statements from casinos, checks written at a casino, etc.) Now, if I hit 100K I'm screwed...I'm going to pay A LOT of tax...and I hate that

 

[hitobito2005]

That reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask for ages:
If the IRS impose a tax on players when they win big, can the players go on to claim that tax back when they lose big?

If not, that's extremely unfair and maybe that's one of the reasons the UK Government decided to scrap all betting tax in the last century... ?

KK

That's exactly why players are not taxed in the UK. More people lose than win, so the government would end up losing money. The profits are in the hands of the gambling company so it made sense to tax them instead.

I'd be shocked if losses in the USA are not tax deductable. Maybe lots of people have small losses and don't declare them or have paperwork to prove it.

 

[BingoT]

I have been clamming my losses for years.
Like the time I won $14,5000 at Foxwoods on Oct 28th 1989
I showed them I lost a lot from Oct 28th to the end of the year.
I have Lottery tickets & Jai-Alai tickets to show my losses.
~T~

 

[3mptyseat]

as any poker pro can tell you....

That's exactly why players are not taxed in the UK. More people lose than win, so the government would end up losing money. The profits are in the hands of the gambling company so it made sense to tax them instead.

I'd be shocked if losses in the USA are not tax deductable. Maybe lots of people have small losses and don't declare them or have paperwork to prove it.

The way gambling plays into current income tax in the US is as follows; Wins are taxed under a special W-2g form, and losses can only be written off of gambling wins. Gambling losses would not create tax windfalls for big losers; this government is mean, not stupid...

 

[ksech]

Actually, you receive a 1099R gambling statement at the end of the year. If you can PROVE losses EQUALING the amount of the win. You can't claim more in losses than wins. And I thought the amount of reportable wins is $600 or more (I could be wrong about this figure as I've never won that much in a landbased casino).

I am wondering, if they do implement US based online casinos, how are they going to go about COLLECTING all of these taxes from people outside the US? Pull the required tax from each significant win before payout? Or will they wait until the end of the year and send out massive 1099's all over the world?

 

[De Beuker]

The way gambling plays into current income tax in the US is as follows; Wins are taxed under a special W-2g form, and losses can only be written off of gambling wins. Gambling losses would not create tax windfalls for big losers; this government is mean, not stupid...

W-2g form stands for WAY 2 GO form?

 

[vinylweatherman]

That's exactly why players are not taxed in the UK. More people lose than win, so the government would end up losing money. The profits are in the hands of the gambling company so it made sense to tax them instead.

I'd be shocked if losses in the USA are not tax deductable. Maybe lots of people have small losses and don't declare them or have paperwork to prove it.

Maybe (for once), the government decided the paperwork would be far simpler if they taxed the gambling companies, rather than the players.

Actually, you receive a 1099R gambling statement at the end of the year. If you can PROVE losses EQUALING the amount of the win. You can't claim more in losses than wins. And I thought the amount of reportable wins is $600 or more (I could be wrong about this figure as I've never won that much in a landbased casino).

I am wondering, if they do implement US based online casinos, how are they going to go about COLLECTING all of these taxes from people outside the US? Pull the required tax from each significant win before payout? Or will they wait until the end of the year and send out massive 1099's all over the world?

They may not. They could instead tax the CASINO based on it's "net win" from all gambling by non-US residents, in the same way as it is done here. Players would have to prove their ID as they do now, so US players would NOT be able to dodge the IRS by pretending to be from elsewhere online.

The US has an odd system where each big win comes with a form to fill in, and each player has to declare their gambling profits individually. Some time in the past the IRS decided this was how they were going to tax gambling. It might have something to do with the history of land casinos. Many were run by "the mob", and maybe the IRS didn't trust the CASINOS to make honest tax declarations, so put the burden on the individual players. Apart from getting the tax, they had considerable paperwork detailing the flows of money through the casino, which no doubt could be used to investigate the casino operators.

Now that "the mob" has more or less been cleared out of operating casinos, the US should consider changing to a system of taxing casinos' net win, rather than have every player have to fill in forms and submit tax returns. The IRS would also have it's income subject to less variance, and the RTP might even be greater because amounts smaller than $1500 (or $600) would be included in the calculations.

Another alternative would be a small tax on "handle", rather than net win. This would make the tax invisible to players, and it would be based on data gathered by the casinos, simple in the case of gambling machines. Every BET would raise tax, whatever the outcome. This should produce an income for the IRS directly related to the amount turned over, and would include EVERYBODY who played, even foreigners, and visiting "whales". The current system means that non-US players can win big, and take the money free of tax if they show their passport and fill in the forms, their BETS are not taxed either, and nor is the casino (it lost!).

Unfortunately, I didn't have a payout anywhere near big enough when I went to Vegas in 2006. Not even $100, let alone $1000. My biggest hope was for the RF on one of the video poker machines, but it didn't happen.

 

[skiny]

W-2g form stands for WAY 2 GO form?

I thought the same thing!

 

[felicie]

Maybe (for once), the government decided the paperwork would be far simpler if they taxed the gambling companies, rather than the players.



They may not. They could instead tax the CASINO based on it's "net win" from all gambling by non-US residents, in the same way as it is done here. Players would have to prove their ID as they do now, so US players would NOT be able to dodge the IRS by pretending to be from elsewhere online.

** The US has an odd system where each big win comes with a form to fill in, and each player has to declare their gambling profits individually. Some time in the past the IRS decided this was how they were going to tax gambling. It might have something to do with the history of land casinos. Many were run by "the mob", and maybe the IRS didn't trust the CASINOS to make honest tax declarations, so put the burden on the individual players. Apart from getting the tax, they had considerable paperwork detailing the flows of money through the casino, which no doubt could be used to investigate the casino operators.

Now that "the mob" has more or less been cleared out of operating casinos, the US should consider changing to a system of taxing casinos' net win, rather than have every player have to fill in forms and submit tax returns. The IRS would also have it's income subject to less variance, and the RTP might even be greater because amounts smaller than $1500 (or $600) would be included in the calculations.

Another alternative would be a small tax on "handle", rather than net win. This would make the tax invisible to players, and it would be based on data gathered by the casinos, simple in the case of gambling machines. Every BET would raise tax, whatever the outcome. This should produce an income for the IRS directly related to the amount turned over, and would include EVERYBODY who played, even foreigners, and visiting "whales". The current system means that non-US players can win big, and take the money free of tax if they show their passport and fill in the forms, their BETS are not taxed either, and nor is the casino (it lost!).

Unfortunately, I didn't have a payout anywhere near big enough when I went to Vegas in 2006. Not even $100, let alone $1000. My biggest hope was for the RF on one of the video poker machines, but it didn't happen.

**That might explain why my last couple of wins ($9,000) stood out like sore thumbs on my bank statement with about 12 lines each of description where previously had only said 'Internatl Wire Transfer'. I have a feeling I will soon (April) find out exactly how it works.

 

[Jasminebed]

Although I've not won big enough to have taxes with held, I did go on a bus trip to AC, and several people did. The casino gave them forms, and once back on the Canadian side, forms were sent in, and the tax withholding was then returned.

I would hope that if online casinos begin withholding taxes, proof of residency (and don't they ask for ID anyway?) would get our funds released.

Most casino terms and conditions state that players are responsible for taxes in their own jurisdiction, and I know there are players here that have declared online winnings, together with appropriate support of their losses I assume.

Mind you, if US based online casinos were to withhold taxes from players from other countries, I personally would stick with ones based elsewhere.

Bad enough to wait for withdrawals from a casino, I don't want to be waiting on one from the US government.

 

[felicie]

Yes that could be a long wait. LOL

 

[Nate]

I’ve been re-reading this thread (Yes Once Again) and can’t ignore several things that appear strange... This has to do with the Posts that 4OAK made and the responses from Bryan.

Bryan, if you don't mind, I would like to pose a few questions to you for the sake of clarity... I’m sure that this thread can not just be left hanging after all the hype surrounding it...

..... decided on my own to seek opinions on this data. Being selective all I forwarded was a very small sample showing certain internal access to the software is indeed available before getting into more serious details.

4OAK notes that he was selective and only forwarded a small sample just to show a certain access is available... This was done before he got into more serious detail.... A small sample hints that there is more information and this is just the tip of the iceberg....

Question: Did you inquire about or examine the additional samples mentioned by 4OAK or are you only aware of the small sample he mentioned?

You also mention here:

To be fair, 4ofakind did share with me some screenshots that I forwarded to the software provider for comment. They never got back to me, but this was in late summer when I was not around too much. I'll chase it down once more.

Then go on to state here:

.... In August, he forwarded me screenshots that show RTG's Goldbeard RTP being changed from 95% to 97.5%. What is unusual about these screenshots is that the operators who saw these told me they had no such permissions to do so (I think I mentioned this in another thread somewhere), in other words this was a different version of the RTG backend.

Today RTG has gotten back to me on this, and these screen shots are from the numero-uno administrators back end. This is what a casino owner would see. Now as discussed in previous threads about RTG RTP, the person with this access can only change the RTP with the full consent of RTG. This has been done here. What is a big deal is that some affiliate manger (who I believe was fired) had access to this and was acting the fool telling people he could make changes at a whim. He should have never been allowed that sort of access - and I believe that the casino Casino33 went down the tubes anyway.

But who is to say which casino this was - it was never identified on the screen shots.

Firstly, you mentioned above that it was mentioned in another thread, could you kindly point me to this thread?

Secondly, you also say that you believe the affiliate manager was fired and you also believe that Casino33 went down the tubes. Shortly after this, you mention "Who is to say which casino it was because it was never identified on the screen shots".

Question : How did you conclude it was Casino33 and or the same manager?

Bryan, you also state here:

Some time ago was in August...and I did respond, several times via PM. I have 11 PMs from you in August, I responded to 6 of these to include the last one. Check your in box. It was RTG that hadn't replied yet to me...and then in September/October I had pretty much been out of the loop.

Please note: RTG responded within a couple of hours yesterday when I resent the message to include screenshots.

Based on 4oak’s past posts over the last few months, It's obvious he attempted to do a great deal of online casino bashing, I would think he was deeply interested in your response concerning such a serious issue (as this thread suggests).... After sending you 11 pm’s in August and you stating you sent him 6 responses in return,

Question: Do you believe you would have to tell him to check his inbox in November for your responses after he sent 11 PM's?

You further mentioned that RT responded within a couple of hours yesterday when you resent the message to include the screenshots. In the post above you state you sent the screenshots to them in August but they never responded.

Question: Did you send the screenshots the first time and what made them respond this time in a few hours?

Lastly 4AOK mentions the following:

The screen shots I sent Bryan were some time ago and the non-response from Bryan was perhaps making me see conspiracies where there wasn't any. Since I have now deleted all screen shots I have nothing to show, and regardless it's just as Bryan says and would have only created wrongful accusations.

However I still am a firm believer that the issues of regulation and 3rd party auditing are still important and should be pursed endlessly by the players and advocates.

I also wouldn't mind if this entire thread be removed since it is misleading and only fuelling conspiracy theory's.

The only person that noted something snazzy about the above post was just play... Reading all of 4OAK's posts, this is definitely NOT his style of exiting a thread... He has been adamant that Video Poker is not what the Casinos claim it is. From my understanding, he also invested $3000 in real play and compared it to fun mode to try and prove these games are controlled by RTP settings...

If you read his thread on Real vs. Fun, he sent his results to the Wizard of Odds who confirmed that there was a difference where there shouldn’t be any...

Honestly, something is NOT right with this thread... I would appreciate if you would clear this issue up. 4OAK doesn't come across as a person who would retract statements and hang his head and walk away from an issue...

Nate

 

[Casinomeister]

I don't have that much time, but I'll try to answer your questions the best I can.

Question: Did you inquire about or examine the additional samples mentioned by 4OAK or are you only aware of the small sample he mentioned?

He sent me three screenshots. That was it. As far as I know, there are no others.

Here is the thread where this has been brought up before:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rtg-return-to-player-percentages.34959/

And here is the thread where Casinojack posted the screenshot:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/no-more-rtg-for-me.32110/

He should have known better than to post a screenshot of his employer's software provider's backend. RTG contacted me and asked these to be removed. I don't have a copy of the original, but I believe it was one that 4 of a kind sent me.

I extrapolated that the three screenshots came form Casinojack (who used to work for Casino33), but it's these two members who can clarify this, not me. Ask them

As for communicating with 4ofakind, I believe I was quite responsive. Looking over the PMs, he was attempting to send the screenshots via email - which he was having difficulty in doing. Once I did receive them, we continued our communication via email. I told him I wanted to share these with RTG and a couple of operators. He complied.

The operators who I shared this with don't have this access - they said that they don't make these changes nor have they requested this. I did not hear back from RTG at this time.

This was the end of August - and with what was going on in September, I had forgotten about this. September was a pretty crazy time for me. I had two deaths in the immediate family and I was gone for most of the month to include October as well. So my silence was not instigated by dubious undertakings, I was focused on my non-Casinomeister activities.

When this thread reappeared and 4ofakind mentioned all this, I remembered that RTG didn't get back to me, so I resent them and they got back to me withing a couple of hours. I never inquired why such a quick response since that's how fast they usually respond to me. August was a busy time and perhaps the right people weren't available. I didn't ask.

It's already a known fact that operators can change the RTP with RTG's approval. So why the new hullabaloo - I don't know. Perhaps this is why RTG didn't initially respond.

Seriously, I think a lot of people are trying to see things that aren't there.

 

[jod5413]

Seriously, I think a lot of people are trying to see things that aren't there.

I think so, too.