Confiscated winnings
- Thread starter Sajsan12
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Wow. Okay. First of all —
You ARE wrong.
This makes me sad for real. I could understand if you put up different perspectives on this matter but just think about it. Whatever you might believe have I told you my experience with the casino exactly how it is.
This was never a thing to try to cheat any system. I thought I did the right things so please at least keep that in mind.
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- Dec 18, 2014
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- Balcony
You might have missed that I wrote - "and I'll be happy if I'm wrong." So I truly hope your story is true.
It's not like we have not seen similar things happening. Addicted gamblers will go sometimes to great length to circumvent or "cheat" the system, hence, why the doubts of most posters on the thread.
I’ve been very transparent and honest with what happened to me.
And yes. Didn’t count on this to happened at all. It’s only money but feels terrible anyways.
Yes. You guys makes me blame myself for it. But when I didn’t know about the SE. What could I have done differently???
Used another card yes.
But when this never been a problem before (which I can prove if someone’s interested) I didn’t even think twice about it!
I really dislike that you already made up your mind that I’m some idiot trying to cheat the system.
Well, if you could at least consider that there is a other HONEST human on the other side, I would be thankful.
Remember it’s not millions. It’s 30k euro.
You may be honest, you know the truth.
But we do point out this is the textbook scheme on how to " fool" the system
Win, cashout.
Loose= claim that your gf has gambling problems, open account your name and used your card. Refund and possibly a big fine for casino.
Understand our sceptism.
But we do point out this is the textbook scheme on how to " fool" the system
Win, cashout.
Loose= claim that your gf has gambling problems, open account your name and used your card. Refund and possibly a big fine for casino.
Understand our sceptism.
I do know the truth. And yes, after reading this thread - I do understand even if anything like this never crossed my mind AT ALL.
Like I said, it’s 30k euro, not the end of anything if I don’t get them.
The one who’s most upset by this is at the end of the day my girlfriend. But that’s another story.
Like I said a million times - I thought I did what I had to do in order not to have any problems using our shared, or her, card.
I haven’t gambled for years like I understand many of you’ve done so this “scamming a casino” or whatever you might call it is totally new to me. Didn’t even know it was a thing.
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Well there is a reason why terms say it has to be your name on card. But if what you claim spelinspektionen say is true, thats horrible.
Imagine if your gf was a true addict, used your bankid and gambled away everything while registered on spelpaus. Even tho you dont share info with her, alot do with their wife +++.
As you can see, that makes spelpaus useless.
Imagine if your gf was a true addict, used your bankid and gambled away everything while registered on spelpaus. Even tho you dont share info with her, alot do with their wife +++.
As you can see, that makes spelpaus useless.
I have never ever shared my BankID with anyone. And I thought no one else did either. The fact that you can access EVERYTHING with it makes it so private I wouldn’t even share it with my parents.
That I dont think is true though. And if someone ‘steals’ your BankID, weather it is for taking loans in your name or whatever it might be. That’s something for the police to handle.
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- Apr 27, 2009
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- the land of snow and maple syrup
my exes and I routinely shared bank info..pins, cards, i mean, we had same address, knew DOB etc
id guess most of my friends routinely hand over bank cards; i see them do it all the time
i do all my mother's online banking so know her balance, pin and details since i set them up
I would also let my friends/gf/mom whatever use my card. In my eyes is BankID something else. Which it should be for all.
If BankID wouldn’t be considered a safe, legitimate identification method we would have a huge problem. Then every bank, loan institution and every other one using BankID for identification should have to refuse every loan application or whatever it might be because ”it can possibly be someone else” for reasons such as ”the person who applied for the loan has a partner/ someone close who have a debt so it might be that person trying to scam us”...
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- Joined
- Sep 1, 2018
- Location
- United Kingdom
Jesus send in the dogs (why not) why don’t we all get off the moral high ground for a bit and let’s see the outcome of the PAB.
There’s seem to be a strong defence on the casinos side here that’s obviously down to being the brand and rep it belongs to.
I’m certain if this was a rogue casino that was being discussed here the tone and direction of the posts would be edging another direction.
There’s seem to be a strong defence on the casinos side here that’s obviously down to being the brand and rep it belongs to.
I’m certain if this was a rogue casino that was being discussed here the tone and direction of the posts would be edging another direction.
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- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
There is no PAB?
Thank you, and yes - i would like to end the discussion here and let the swedish gambling authorities answer the questions at first.
Like I said earlier, I will update the thread with the outcome of this. But for now, just let it be.
No, to be honest I don’t even know what a PAB is.
However, I’m awaiting the written reply from SGA and have contacted ARN.
In the meantime i would be thankful if we keep the the accusations away. I know I’ve been honest from the start and there nothing shady here at all.
Saying that, I’m done here. You can of course still believe whatever you like.
I will update with the outcome.
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DoubleTree1962
Banned User
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2019
- Location
- Acton
I want you to get your winning but for 30k they will want to avoid it. I don't think they pay as they alreadyrefunded deposits.
Don’t know what PAB stands for. Sorry. Either way I have already contacted SGA, and ARN that will help look in to things like this. And my friend who’s a lawyer looking into it aswell. The fact that I used my BankID to log in to my casino account is clearly really good for my case. That’s, again, because it’s an identification method approved by the Swedish government.
@DoubleTree1962 they haven’t.
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DoubleTree1962
Banned User
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2019
- Location
- Acton
What did they say about deposit?
Maybe they have, what I meant is that I haven’t received any money. I don’t know. They told me they would pay the deposits back. We will see
Thank you for that. I will look into it as soon as I get the written reply from SGA. If they say the casino made the right call I think there’s maybe no need to submit a complaint.
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- Aug 21, 2017
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- Malta
Apologies if you find my posts as accusation, as mentioned wanted to point you why casino took that approach what came as surprise to you and can end up to any outcome which is work in process and hopefully sorted soon. You might end up to receive your winnings or being unfortunate person who end up to learn expensive lesson and not repeat same in future.
Casino themselves also imo could have told you in a first place not to use any payment method where's other persons name, then this whole incident never have happened, maybe they also don't do same anymore in future.
Casino themselves also imo could have told you in a first place not to use any payment method where's other persons name, then this whole incident never have happened, maybe they also don't do same anymore in future.
Customer already mentioned he wont follow our complaints procedure if he does not agree with our opinion. The next step would be an ADR, however, he would like to proceed to ARN which is national ADR system in Sweden.
We've answered the complaint yesterday and received a few questions today, we will answer the questions accordingly, and I think after the customer proceeds to the ARN after.
Also I dont think this particular case is not controlled by a regulator but by terms of the casino and the opinion of an ADR/ARN.
We had an ARN dispute before which we won, took months though for a not that complicated case.
On top of that I think the majority of the community here knows us pretty well and know we are, in terms of running our operations. a fair a square operator.
Until the complaint has been resolved or moved to the ARN I cannot comment further on the details.
Kr. Jan
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- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
does a customer not have to go through a casinos complaints procedure before going to an ADR?
DoubleTree1962
Banned User
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- Nov 15, 2019
- Location
- Acton
Looks like they going to fight this. As they not paying winnings.
I just wanted to tell you guys that I have requested the chat logs from some of the other casinos I used the same deposit method at.
Where I ask them if it was okay to use this card, the documents I sent in for approval, and to prove that I NEVER asked for a refund of my lost deposits (which is 99% of them) because “it’s my self excluded partners card”.
I just somehow wanted to clear things up and again say that I never ever tried to cheat the system.
You probably don’t care, but it felt like some of you really tried to accuse me for trying to scam the casino.
So, like most of you, I gambled. I lost a lot. Was fine with that. But the one time I finally win a decent sum it ends up in a total mess.
Try to understand my frustration.
Where I ask them if it was okay to use this card, the documents I sent in for approval, and to prove that I NEVER asked for a refund of my lost deposits (which is 99% of them) because “it’s my self excluded partners card”.
I just somehow wanted to clear things up and again say that I never ever tried to cheat the system.
You probably don’t care, but it felt like some of you really tried to accuse me for trying to scam the casino.
So, like most of you, I gambled. I lost a lot. Was fine with that. But the one time I finally win a decent sum it ends up in a total mess.
Try to understand my frustration.
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RickyMicky
Dormant Account
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- Jun 16, 2019
- Location
- USA
I have not yet encountered a good win (only a good loss), but I really have such a fear - that in case of a win, confusion will begin..
So. An update.
I’ve been in contact with relevant authorities and a lawyer from the municipality who looked in to the case.
The claims that the casino has to not pay my winnings is totally unfounded.
The use of BankID is regulated by the Swedish law where it says that the use of BankID is equal to a signature and a ID-card. The casino has a Swedish license; therefore the Swedish gaming law/law apply.
The argument that “it could have been“ my partner who gambled, therefore, isn’t valid at all.
Never did they mention that I wouldn’t be able to use the card if it been used before, this isn’t stated in their t&c either.
They can’t just assume that one should have known this. And I have emails, even after i sent in the copy of the card, still saying it was okay - they only needed to confirm my partners adress. (She didnt live here when she gambled on this site.)
The casinos other, and last, argument to confiscate my winnings is that - if there is a worry that a SE’d player tries to circumvent their self exclusion the game will be voided.
This would be an issue if my casino account hadn’t been verified. But it was. Every time I logged on. With an identification method that’s regulated by law.
The casino at this point totally ignore the Swedish regulatory, mail from SGA and choses not to respond to the facts I present.
So. SGA tells me to take this to ARN. There after court if the casino still won’t pay my winnings if ARN says they should.
I will await a reply and see what they respond to my last email.
I understand that the Swedish law is different from how it works in other countries. But I’m positive, after talking to everyone, that, if this boils down to something for the Swedish court, it will be judged to my favor.
So im not worried. It just unfortunate that they want to take it this far.
I’ve been in contact with relevant authorities and a lawyer from the municipality who looked in to the case.
The claims that the casino has to not pay my winnings is totally unfounded.
The use of BankID is regulated by the Swedish law where it says that the use of BankID is equal to a signature and a ID-card. The casino has a Swedish license; therefore the Swedish gaming law/law apply.
The argument that “it could have been“ my partner who gambled, therefore, isn’t valid at all.
Never did they mention that I wouldn’t be able to use the card if it been used before, this isn’t stated in their t&c either.
They can’t just assume that one should have known this. And I have emails, even after i sent in the copy of the card, still saying it was okay - they only needed to confirm my partners adress. (She didnt live here when she gambled on this site.)
The casinos other, and last, argument to confiscate my winnings is that - if there is a worry that a SE’d player tries to circumvent their self exclusion the game will be voided.
This would be an issue if my casino account hadn’t been verified. But it was. Every time I logged on. With an identification method that’s regulated by law.
The casino at this point totally ignore the Swedish regulatory, mail from SGA and choses not to respond to the facts I present.
So. SGA tells me to take this to ARN. There after court if the casino still won’t pay my winnings if ARN says they should.
I will await a reply and see what they respond to my last email.
I understand that the Swedish law is different from how it works in other countries. But I’m positive, after talking to everyone, that, if this boils down to something for the Swedish court, it will be judged to my favor.
So im not worried. It just unfortunate that they want to take it this far.
Now I also got a written reply from SGA that confirmed the matter about BankID and that the casino won’t break any rules paying my winnings, as they claimed in their initial email.
I forwarded this to the casino.
I have again read the terms and conditions at the casino. I have not violated any of the stated rules.
I forwarded this to the casino.
I have again read the terms and conditions at the casino. I have not violated any of the stated rules.
A representative in the chat now said that they will not respond to the facts I have presented, nor the supporting documents or the forwarded e-mails from the Swedish gaming authority.
They won’t even refer to which paragraph in their t & c I violated and say I should turn to the POGG...
I asked them again to reply, if they don’t, I think I will start with sending a copy of all the emails/correspondence to SGA and see what they say about it. Maybe they can help in some way.
Next step would be ARN.
They won’t even refer to which paragraph in their t & c I violated and say I should turn to the POGG...
I asked them again to reply, if they don’t, I think I will start with sending a copy of all the emails/correspondence to SGA and see what they say about it. Maybe they can help in some way.
Next step would be ARN.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2018
- Location
- Isle of Bute Scotland
If the SGA told you to take it to the ARN then why waste your time in between and do what was asked?
I don’t. I gave the casino a chance to reply to the actual facts.
I have a booked a meeting early next week with a person who knows more about things like this who will help me to correctly present and describe the case to ARN.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2019
- Location
- Swedish version of Narnia
I find your complaint to be without legs here. From what I can see from ThePogg (ADR) they already replied to your complaint, Jan told you earlier that he responded to your complaint, yet you didn't post anything about it here and you never submitted a PAB nor have you yet taken it to the ARN as advised by the SGA, so it's basically only your part of the story being heard here, I feel like there is more to the story that you're neglecting to tell us. But I guess we will find out in the future? At least I hope so as it's interesting. 
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2014
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- Balcony
Sorry, those are your "facts."
Again, if the Spelinspektionen and casino operators allow transactions with cards associated with a SE-ed player, it renders the entire system totally useless and toothless.
And yet again, you did not inform the casino that your partner had SE-ed. It only transpired after she/he signed the form they sent you and you returned it to them. You simply asked them if it is OK to use your partner's card as it is a shared account, after which they sent you the extra forms.
You keep saying that you informed them and they said it is OK. They would have never said OK if you would have told them that your partner was SE-ed. NEVER!
And the third again, your BankID might be the official verification form in Sweden but it is nowhere 100% failsafe. People can share the data/PIN/etc, or an addict could somehow get hold of what is needed.
Funny, that you didn't give Jan a day to look into your case at the time and now weeks later when the SGA tells you to go to the ARN, you want to give the casino a "chance to reply to the actual facts"? Did the facts change since then? Or how should one understand that? They were your "facts" then, and are your "facts" now.
Gimme a break!
They replied to the complaints, yes. But that was before I had the answers from SGA. I have updated that today. If you want me to I can provide you with the answers from SGA. Its in swedish though.
I will take it to ARN. I just wanted to do what the casino asked me to first.
I will take it to ARN. I just wanted to do what the casino asked me to first.
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- Dec 18, 2014
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- Balcony
Sorry, those are your "facts."
Again, if the Spelinspektionen and casino operators allow transactions with cards associated with a SE-ed player, it renders the entire system totally useless and toothless.
And yet again, you did not inform the casino that your partner had SE-ed. It only transpired after she/he signed the form they sent you and you returned it to them. You simply asked them if it is OK to use your partner's card as it is a shared account, after which they sent you the extra forms.
You keep saying that you informed them and they said it is OK. They would have never said OK if you would have told them that your partner was SE-ed. NEVER!
And the third again, your BankID might be the official verification form in Sweden but it is nowhere 100% failsafe. People can share the data/PIN/etc, or an addict could somehow get hold of what is needed.
Funny, that you didn't give Jan a day to look into your case at the time and now weeks later when the SGA tells you to go to the ARN, you want to give the casino a "chance to reply to the actual facts"? Did the facts change since then? Or how should one understand that? They were your "facts" then, and are your "facts" now.
Gimme a break!
I already sent the casino the email before i started this thread. Im new to this so didnt know which order and so on.
The casino can’t just assume that one should know about that. It doesnt matter what you or the casino think about BankID, it IS by law a valid method.
And like i stated before, i didnt know about any SE.
The casinos first answer was that they confiscated my winning because they would violate the swedish regilation if they did pay my winnings. That is not true.
SGA said (Google translated):
”Hello,
Answer your questions below:
At the risk of repeating information that you received from us over the phone, the only occasions that a gaming company should and may ask questions about a game break is when registering or logging in (or before sending out a person-addressed marketing). Questions about a game break should not be asked at other times.
BankID is today the most established way of securing a player's identity.
There is no section saying that they would violate the law when paying the winnings.
Hope you got answers to your thoughts”
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- Joined
- Jan 10, 2019
- Location
- Swedish version of Narnia
So, in your opinion I could ask my friend to SE on a casino, then I register with BankID and then use her bank account - if we win we get the winnings and if we lose then we can get the deposits back? Oh how I will defraud casinos! I will be a millionaire in no time if I could do that. :xxx:
I don’t think you guys are very fair here tbh.
did i ever say anything about any deposits back???
I have used this method before and never asked for any deposits back. Still haven’t. I don’t even know what you try to say with that.
I used my own money from my own account...
did i ever say anything about any deposits back???
I have used this method before and never asked for any deposits back. Still haven’t. I don’t even know what you try to say with that.
I used my own money from my own account...
This is not ”my facts”
I provided the casino with paragraphs from the Swedish law and the written reply to the emails from SGA and asked which paragraph in their t&c I violated. As I said, the casino can’t just assume one should have known this if they can’t point out where its stated.
I provided the casino with paragraphs from the Swedish law and the written reply to the emails from SGA and asked which paragraph in their t&c I violated. As I said, the casino can’t just assume one should have known this if they can’t point out where its stated.
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- Dec 18, 2014
- Location
- Balcony
"The casino can’t just assume that one should know about that. It doesnt matter what you or the casino think about BankID, it IS by law a valid method."
Yes it is valid but it can be misused. I am sure it has been in the past and will be in the future.
"The casinos first answer was that they confiscated my winning because they would violate the swedish law if they did pay my winnings. That is not true."
The casino probably meant "regulations" not "law". I would be very surprised if the Swedish Responsible Gambling regulations allow casinos to accept deposits with cards that belong to a SE-ed player.
".....questions about a game break is when registering or logging in"
You registered the account and the card, they did a SE-crosscheck as part of their due diligence and found the card to belong to a SE-ed player.
And no, your answers still don't explain or justify anything at all. You want it to be in your favour but IMO it is not.
I, myself, haven’t made anything wrong because, first of all, I didn’t know anything about any self exclusion.
So don’t blame me.
If they would have provided me with any information about this, or mentioned it beforehand in any way, I would have asked my gf to actually look into it just to double check.
So don’t blame me.
If they would have provided me with any information about this, or mentioned it beforehand in any way, I would have asked my gf to actually look into it just to double check.
yes, maybe I transalated that wrong. They meant the regulation yes.
However, SGA told me (in the translated email above) that that claim isn’t true. That there is no such paragraph in the regulation/Swedish gaming law. They would not violate any regulations/law if they pay my winnings.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2019
- Location
- Swedish version of Narnia
The casinos don't know about your girlfriends SE until they receive documents to show that it's actually her or that she signs some sort of form to give you the authorization to use her card. Then they cross-check both accounts and if they now found a SE, then that's the first time they found out about it, and as such the winnings would be void as you used a card belonging to a player who is self-excluded (and according to the casino and yourself, also Gambling Addicted)
It still isnt stated anywhere. Can they then just assume that everyone should know this?
If thats the case they can make up which rules they want just because they feel for it...
”Oh no, but thats a rule. You didnt know? Oh so sorry for that. But it is. No, it isnt stated anywhere but If we tell you thats a rule it is”
If thats the case they can make up which rules they want just because they feel for it...
”Oh no, but thats a rule. You didnt know? Oh so sorry for that. But it is. No, it isnt stated anywhere but If we tell you thats a rule it is
”- Status
