Club World Casino: changing T&C of nd bonus after I won 1100 USD!

Brooklyn

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Location
On the Hot Mess Express
I don't think that anyone should rush to judgement regarding the OP until the full story is told. Maybe there wasn't terms and conditons on the message, who knows? Either way, live support effed up and they should pay the player IMO.
 

taysh075

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
New Zealand
I too have received 'welcome back' bonuses from CWC. The email sent has the terms and conditions as does the message in the Inbox of the casino message system. Not only that but when you click on the bonus to get it, a message comes up with the playthrough and max out information in a message box. So in essence, you get this information twice. The only way to miss ALL of this is simply to be so excited that you take the bonus without checking anything (or reading anything) properly. I have never received any kind of reward nd bonus from CWC where terms and conditions weren't provided in both email to my email account, and on the message in the Inbox, and on the pop-up box when I click on the bonus to accept. Unless the OPs message was a total aberation from the norm, I'd imagine they simply did not read the messages properly. If T & Cs were provided in written format (as I think is likely) then these are the ones to be followed. CS response was simply human error.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
FYI, what I copied and posted was from the message area on the casino software. I had already deleted the actual email but it was the same thing. I have the same message from Lucky Red and the messages for the MC deposit bonus. All of which have the terms and conditions spelled out in detail at the bottom of the message.

I'm sorry but I think that this is a fight that you cannot win.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
Their terms state that: unless stated otherwise.

Its funny (well not really) that some of those who say that the player should always clarify/check the terms with CS if they are unsure are now defending the casino.


@spiderlegz

Which case are you referring to?

The case with the Finnish player:https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/high-noon-casino-account-closed-student-issue.42566/

He didnt break a single term. Those who are in doubt can check the terms in Swedish (official language in Finland) or even go as far as checking the German terms. They only mention högskola eller universitet/Hochschule oder Universität not Gymnasium.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Their terms state that: unless stated otherwise.

Its funny (well not really) that some of those who say that the player should always clarify/check the terms with CS if they are unsure are now defending the casino.




The case with the Finnish player:https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/high-noon-casino-account-closed-student-issue.42566/

He didnt break a single term. Those who are in doubt can check the terms in Swedish (official language in Finland) or even go as far as checking the German terms. They only mention högskola eller universitet/Hochschule oder Universität not Gymnasium.

The ruling was that he was a student, therefor he broke the terms. Don't just take my word for it, ask Bryan, Max, and CWC. You can carry on until you're blue in the face, but he was a student at the time. Just remember that when you're giving those last few lashes to that corpse that used to be a horse.

Thankyou, though, for providing an excellent of example of what I was saying about Lay's Sour Cream and Onion on clavicles.....
 

siilix

Registered
Joined
Jan 10, 2006
Location
the land of despair and darkness
To those who do not believe...

...what I have stated till now about this case, you have all rights to do so if you prefer so. But be advised that in the worst case scenario all this could happen to you:eek2:

With my post I just wanted to give you a worning that you need to beware of this casino as they have a non professional cs and can't keep their word. This situation happening with a nd bonus is not yet too tragic, but have you thought if this would have happened after you deposited and won some big amount of money with a deposit bonus?

Personally I don't care about those 800 USD they have not paid (right after this bad experience, I won another 1000 USD in another casino out of a 70 USD deposit:cool:), but what makes me upset is the fact those people do not act in line with their words and I wanted everybody who visit this forum to know about it.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
The ruling was that he was a student, therefor he broke the terms. Don't just take my word for it, ask Bryan, Max, and CWC. You can carry on until you're blue in the face, but he was a student at the time. Just remember that when you're giving those last few lashes to that corpse that used to be a horse.

Thankyou, though, for providing an excellent of example of what I was saying about Lay's Sour Cream and Onion on clavicles.....

Whatever the ruling was he didnt break a single term. He wasnt enrolled in College or University. Period.

Schadenfreude ITT.
 

BMWSTACK

Ueber Meister
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Location
US
i totally agree with this - they should pay for what they stated is a fact. he has it in writing and proof of what the t&c were at the time he asked. even though it was free money .

imo

The written terms on the website should be the legally binding terms regardless of what a live chat operator says. He should be treated no different than anyone else. Its 10x maxcashout. Thats the world we live in, people want to constantly take advantage of situations that would benefit themselves. I think that could be called Greed.
Maybe the people that believe that the casino "should pay" for making the mistake should look at it another way.

I am chatting with a Lexus rep in live chat.

Lexus Rep: Can I help you?
Me: I drove by the other day and saw a beautiful new black Lexus LS460, Do you know th price?
Lexus Rep: Let me check.
Lexus Rep: Yes it is $50,000.00.
Me: Really? The new 2011 black LS460 is only $50, 000?
Lexus Rep: Yes really!!
Me: Wow thats awesome I will be in.

Ok so now I got to the bank get $50,000 and rush to Lexus to buy it. Once i get there I throw the money on the salsespersons desk and tell him I will take it. He says great, counts the money and asks if I am planning on financing the other $20,000. I look at him confused and say what are you talking about? He says the car is $70,000.00. I tell him no the live chat rep told me that it was $50,000. He says that would be a great deal but the price is $70,000. I say "wait a second a deal is a deal, look at the chat on my blackberry, she told me its $50,000.00." The salesmanager apologizes and explains that the person chatting with me is a new clerk and doesnt know all the correct information. He says sorry for the mistake, but just because she made a mistake it doesnt change the fact that its a $70,000 vehicle.
So do I expect Lexus to give me the car for $50,000 because the clerk made a mistake? I dont think so. But again there are people that would never let it go, they would probably lose sleep over it. All over some little mistake that was never going to change. Shit happens, and we all make mistakes. Go and give the clerk some more training and apologize to the customer.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
The written terms on the website should be the legally binding terms regardless of what a live chat operator says. He should be treated no different than anyone else. Its 10x maxcashout. Thats the world we live in, people want to constantly take advantage of situations that would benefit themselves. I think that could be called Greed.
Maybe the people that believe that the casino "should pay" for making the mistake should look at it another way.

I am chatting with a Lexus rep in live chat.

Lexus Rep: Can I help you?
Me: I drove by the other day and saw a beautiful new black Lexus LS460, Do you know th price?
Lexus Rep: Let me check.
Lexus Rep: Yes it is $50,000.00.
Me: Really? The new 2011 black LS460 is only $50, 000?
Lexus Rep: Yes really!!
Me: Wow thats awesome I will be in.

Ok so now I got to the bank get $50,000 and rush to Lexus to buy it. Once i get there I throw the money on the salsespersons desk and tell him I will take it. He says great, counts the money and asks if I am planning on financing the other $20,000. I look at him confused and say what are you talking about? He says the car is $70,000.00. I tell him no the live chat rep told me that it was $50,000. He says that would be a great deal but the price is $70,000. I say "wait a second a deal is a deal, look at the chat on my blackberry, she told me its $50,000.00." The salesmanager apologizes and explains that the person chatting with me is a new clerk and doesnt know all the correct information. He says sorry for the mistake, but just because she made a mistake it doesnt change the fact that its a $70,000 vehicle.
So do I expect Lexus to give me the car for $50,000 because the clerk made a mistake? I dont think so. But again there are people that would never let it go, they would probably lose sleep over it. All over some little mistake that was never going to change. Shit happens, and we all make mistakes. Go and give the clerk some more training and apologize to the customer.

According to their T&Cs its 5x max cashout unless stated otherwise. They "all" have 10xmax so that would be the stated otherwise.
So the main point is what comes under the "unless stated otherwise".
 
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mn001

Full Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Location
Casino
The written terms on the website should be the legally binding terms regardless of what a live chat operator says. He should be treated no different than anyone else. Its 10x maxcashout. Thats the world we live in, people want to constantly take advantage of situations that would benefit themselves. I think that could be called Greed.
Maybe the people that believe that the casino "should pay" for making the mistake should look at it another way.

I am chatting with a Lexus rep in live chat.

Lexus Rep: Can I help you?
Me: I drove by the other day and saw a beautiful new black Lexus LS460, Do you know th price?
Lexus Rep: Let me check.
Lexus Rep: Yes it is $50,000.00.
Me: Really? The new 2011 black LS460 is only $50, 000?
Lexus Rep: Yes really!!
Me: Wow thats awesome I will be in.

Ok so now I got to the bank get $50,000 and rush to Lexus to buy it. Once i get there I throw the money on the salsespersons desk and tell him I will take it. He says great, counts the money and asks if I am planning on financing the other $20,000. I look at him confused and say what are you talking about? He says the car is $70,000.00. I tell him no the live chat rep told me that it was $50,000. He says that would be a great deal but the price is $70,000. I say "wait a second a deal is a deal, look at the chat on my blackberry, she told me its $50,000.00." The salesmanager apologizes and explains that the person chatting with me is a new clerk and doesnt know all the correct information. He says sorry for the mistake, but just because she made a mistake it doesnt change the fact that its a $70,000 vehicle.
So do I expect Lexus to give me the car for $50,000 because the clerk made a mistake? I dont think so. But again there are people that would never let it go, they would probably lose sleep over it. All over some little mistake that was never going to change. Shit happens, and we all make mistakes. Go and give the clerk some more training and apologize to the customer.

BMWSTACK asks the bartender how much a beer costs. He tells you 5 bucks. Once you finish drinking the beer you ask to pay for it. Owner of the bar hands over a bill of $500. You tell him the bartender told you it costed $5. No the correct price for beer is $500, our bartender is new and is not updated with current prices. BMWSTACK pays the $500 and thinks it's ok.

Or in a better way. Casino support is representing the casino and what they say is a deal if it's not obvious very wrong. Like misspelling or something extraordinary. This situation by OP is clear and he should be paid. Most casinos dont have a max cashout. None of the casinos I play at and I play at many.
 

BMWSTACK

Ueber Meister
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Location
US
BMWSTACK asks the bartender how much a beer costs. He tells you 5 bucks. Once you finish drinking the beer you ask to pay for it. Owner of the bar hands over a bill of $500. You tell him the bartender told you it costed $5. No the correct price for beer is $500, our bartender is new and is not updated with current prices. BMWSTACK pays the $500 and thinks it's ok.

Or in a better way. Casino support is representing the casino and what they say is a deal if it's not obvious very wrong. Like misspelling or something extraordinary. This situation by OP is clear and he should be paid. Most casinos dont have a max cashout. None of the casinos I play at and I play at many.

I am not following your $500 example. I know what the average price of a beer is. I know there is not a $495 difference. We are not talking about a casino taking advantage of a player. That would be great in the endless threads of casinos taking advantage of players. This is about players taking advantage of a casino. Thats what we are talking about, taking advantage of someone else mistake.

Could you please name me an RTG that does not have a max cashout on a No Deposit bonus.
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
If we should ignore what the CW Casino reps say, then anything they tell you on live chat should be taken with a pinch of salt.

I cannot understand how their word only applies in some circumstances. When it may be beneficial to the player then they can swing around any term and claim what they confirmed in writing is NOT valid.

If I were told on live chat that I would receive a ND Bonus with no max cashout at the places I play,I hold them to it and 100% of the time they have the integrity to honor their statements.

This is just another debate that will go nowhere as we have people sitting on either side of the fence. Why even bother to contact live chat in future if you cannot trust what they say.

Nate
 

mn001

Full Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Location
Casino
I am not following your $500 example. I know what the average price of a beer is. I know there is not a $495 difference. We are not talking about a casino taking advantage of a player. That would be great in the endless threads of casinos taking advantage of players. This is about players taking advantage of a casino. Thats what we are talking about, taking advantage of someone else mistake.

Could you please name me an RTG that does not have a max cashout on a No Deposit bonus.

Don't play RTG. I play microgaming, netent and a few more. Around 100 casinos. None of them have any max cashout rules. So for me the standard in casinos is no max cashout. He even asked with the specific bonus code and got the answer no max cashout. It can not be any clearer than this. I don't care if he tried to take advantage of the casino or not. I do that all the time. Ask for bonuses, comps etc. Guess what, I have always been paid or had what any live chat support person have told me. Anything else would be a scam IMHO. Of course obvious errors can't be honored, but max cashout or no max cashout is a pretty clear question impossible to missunderstand.
 

BMWSTACK

Ueber Meister
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Location
US
This is just another debate that will go nowhere as we have people sitting on either side of the fence. Why even bother to contact live chat in future if you cannot trust what they say.

Nate

Exactly, I personally dont use live chat for much because of the inconsistencies. I know its there to use, but I do treat live chat as how I descibed before. They are clerks. There are plenty of other customer service lines in other industries that are inconsistent, ie. credit card customer service, cell phone customer service, ect... Its a shame that you can not have faith in what is being told to you, but again I have learned that to be the case.

PS. The worst customer service in the world and any industry was RIVAL, imo.
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
Exactly, I personally dont use live chat for much because of the inconsistencies. I know its there to use, but I do treat live chat as how I descibed before. They are clerks. There are plenty of other customer service lines in other industries that are inconsistent, ie. credit card customer service, cell phone customer service, ect... Its a shame that you can not have faith in what is being told to you, but again I have learned that to be the case.

PS. The worst customer service in the world and any industry was RIVAL, imo.

yes rival is bad . but theres no getting away from the fact that live chat told the op that there is no max cashout & im sick of reading the forum about casinos ,using the youve played the wrong game , youve gone beyond the 30% bonus limit in wagering, or any other barbed wired fence you can think of to NOT payout winnings.

i would also like to know why CWC rep hasnt been on here already since theyve had all day to make some sort of reply ( maybe there busy giving CS a lesson in bonuses & promos ):rolleyes:
 

BMWSTACK

Ueber Meister
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Location
US
Don't play RTG. I play microgaming, netent and a few more. Around 100 casinos. None of them have any max cashout rules. So for me the standard in casinos is no max cashout. He even asked with the specific bonus code and got the answer no max cashout. It can not be any clearer than this. I don't care if he tried to take advantage of the casino or not. I do that all the time. Ask for bonuses, comps etc. Guess what, I have always been paid or had what any live chat support person have told me. Anything else would be a scam IMHO. Of course obvious errors can't be honored, but max cashout or no max cashout is a pretty clear question impossible to missunderstand.

FYI, I have never heard or seen a RTG ND deposit without a max cashout, the terms differ from casino to casino, but all the RTG's have max cashouts. I take my position of them not having to honor because I am used to this standard with RTG. I have even tried to put myself in the OP's position. Now I wouldnt ask what the max cashout is because the terms are normally written with the codes, but I am pretending that I did ask and they said no max cashout on a code. I pretend I get it to $5000.00. I go to cashout and they say the max is $1,000.00 because it is 10x max and my ND deposit was $100. I would be upset, I would take it up with someone, but after I was told that there was nothing they could do because it was standard, I would then have to get over the frustration real quick and be happy I won something on a free deposit.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Whatever the ruling was he didnt break a single term. He wasnt enrolled in College or University. Period.

Schadenfreude ITT.

The whole CWC student thing again?? Sigh. Some people are like a brain-damaged greyhound with a rubber boot - they just won't let go. (Before anyone goes off screaming I did not say he was a dog its just a figure of speech)

You're right though, let's ignore the ruling of those who know the FULL story. Better still, let's replace the PAB service with 'trial by forum' where the most persistent whinger wins.

Oh, and I take no pleasure in the misfortunes of others. If you want to insult me, you could at least be a man and do it in English.
 

secret2

irishbrit62
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Location
New York, United States
Look,

Read the T&C's carefully, know that it's a good thing to send in all docs before playing at an accredited casino.

When playing a ND (FREE) bonus ..just KNOW that it has restrictions..I.e ..a limit of 10x OR 5 x the ND amount.....

...come on, really? You expect a non-maxout withdrawel? really?



Take responsibility. Read the terms and stop relying on Live Chat.

Email support and/or manager for clarification if you are not sure.


Live chat. It needs help in some casinos...others?..they are awesome.

Just double check with support and Manager of that casino via email ,if you are not sure/ or can't be bothered to read the T&C's.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Live chat stated there is no max cashout. The op should ask himself how this answer altered his betting strategy eg bet size, games played etc. If he was going to play the same games with same bet sizes the answer made no material difference. If the answer from live chat had affected a decision then the casino is liable. Say if this were a deposit bonus, mx cashout and 10x cashout makes a huge difference and the max cashout statement should be honoured. If I am not mistaken, the op will have an opportunity to cash out an extra $3000 if he wins on the $300 chip so the casino is really acting in good faith. Just because live chat said something inaccurate but which did not affect a decision or playing strategy is not a reason for forcing the casino to pay up. The casino will have to contend with plenty of disgruntled customers who won a lot but were only paid 10x the bonus amount. In fact, many may already be asking to receive the $300 chip.:p
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
Well I can understand it would be frustrating, but CW admitted their chat person made a mistake and compensated the OP quite generously IMO. But CW should maybe take this opportunity to train their chat reps better, this kind of cock-up could be very damaging to them.

That being said, I don't understand a lot of complaints coming from people who win on free chips and think the casino's ripping them off because there are high WR and max cashout. I think it's awesome that any casinos give out free chips at all, they're not obligated to do it.

But let's see if my story changes in a few days on my birthday....:D
 

Brooklyn

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Location
On the Hot Mess Express
I don't know what rubber dogs or greyhound boots have to do with all of this :what: but I really do think the original statement should be honored. If it was me I would be upset too. However; I do see where some posters are coming from with the "if you play online you know that all ND at RTG's have a max cashout" because it's true. Bottom line for me was the live chat agent was given the code and never even bothered checking.

Either way I would like to see CWC chime in on this if they could.
 

P.V.

Senior Member
webmeister
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Location
Turn around...
This is an accredited casino here at CM, one of the requirements is to have in house support.

Chat would be in house support, so chat told the OP this: Katrina: ok there is no maximum cash out for this coupon.

Why the debate they should pay the OP and train staff if there's a problem moving forward.

In short the chat operator is employed by this group per their accredited status and therfore should pay up, period. :(
 

footdr

Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
cyberspace
BTW their T&Cs say:

12. The maximum cashout on all non-deposit bonuses is 5x the bonus amount and the timeframe is 30 days unless stated otherwise.

Also note the 5x max cashout in the T&Cs.

Edit: they have at least once ruled against a player even if their T&Cs didnt even support it.

Not at CW it is always 10X unless it says no maximum, which sometimes it does on special offers or cash-back bonuses
 

footdr

Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
cyberspace
If we should ignore what the CW Casino reps say, then anything they tell you on live chat should be taken with a pinch of salt.

I cannot understand how their word only applies in some circumstances. When it may be beneficial to the player then they can swing around any term and claim what they confirmed in writing is NOT valid.

If I were told on live chat that I would receive a ND Bonus with no max cashout at the places I play,I hold them to it and 100% of the time they have the integrity to honor their statements.

This is just another debate that will go nowhere as we have people sitting on either side of the fence. Why even bother to contact live chat in future if you cannot trust what they say.

Nate

this is why I always keep copy of the chat and in 100% of the cases that I was told incorrect information that affected my withdrawl they abided by what I was told after I send them a copy of the chat. Recently even paid all my winnings versus the $500.00 installments they tried to pay me because I had contacted chat and verified I would be paid the entire amount if I won. (and I specifically asked about others being paid only 500.00).
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
Not at CW it is always 10X unless it says no maximum, which sometimes it does on special offers or cash-back bonuses

From their T&Cs (Bonus Terms and Conditions):
12. The maximum cashout on all non-deposit bonuses is 5x the bonus amount and the timeframe is 30 days unless stated otherwise.

The 10x comes under the "unless stated otherwise".

Edit: I think everyone who is on the players side acknowledges the 10xmax that is standard but the question that needs to be answered is that to what point can live chat be hold responsible for what they said. Again many posters always repeat that check with CS if you are unsure. Have we come to a point where everything live chat says should be ignored?

And as for the poor provocing attempt by a certain poster. Thats truly pathetic.
 
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