Club World Casino: changing T&C of nd bonus after I won 1100 USD!

siilix

Registered
Joined
Jan 10, 2006
Location
the land of despair and darkness
Hi!
One week ago I received a 30 USD nd bonus from Club World Casino.
While playing I went to live chat and asked if the bonus had a max cashout.

Following my chat with the cs.

Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Katrina'
Katrina: Hello, how are you today?
Player: I am good thanks!
Player: Hi! I am playing with a no deposit bonus 30 USD (cupon NGP30M6NCD) how much is the max cash out?
Katrina: ok there is no maximum cash out for this coupon
Player: really?
Katrina: yes really
Player: well I am happy for it
Player: thanks, this was all
Katrina: Your welcome, have good day!
Player: you too!
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to xxxx@gmail.com at the end of your chat.



Happy for the nd bonus I start playing, after few spins I hit relatively big on Mystic Dragon slot. Continued playing to clear my wagering requirements and even played a bit more than that.
Cashed out 1100 USD.

To make a long story short, I was paid 300 USD only in my Neteller account out of a 1100 USD winning.

Contacted again the live chat to ask why and they told me the bonus had a max cash out of 10x.

Now I don't obviously complain for the free money, but I would expect that they maintain what they said at first, that the bonus had no max cash out.

Had a discussion back and forward with the support yesterday and today and they quickly apologized and said the manager decided to make a good action and give me 300USD free chips to play.
Come on, why don't they mantain what they first said (no max cashout) instead of giving me some free useless chips which for sure will have another ridiculous cash out limit!!!?

Very disappointing experience, from a casino where I deposited quite much already during these last 3 years, I would have expected a different kind of treatment.
 

Repro

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Location
Netherlands
If you've been a player there for a few years you should have known the €30 ND bonusses they offer ALWAYS have the 10x max cashout.

I fully agree that the chat made a big mistake and they agreed on that. I think the $300 is a very generous compensation for the mistake they made.
 

BMWSTACK

Ueber Meister
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Location
US
Repro is right all ND deposits are 10x. Chat made a mistake, but obviously its not really a mistake they should stick to since it was free money and you have the same terms as everyone else. $300 on a free 30nd bonus is a great win.
 

siilix

Registered
Joined
Jan 10, 2006
Location
the land of despair and darkness
If you've been a player there for a few years you should have known the €30 ND bonusses they offer ALWAYS have the 10x max cashout.

I fully agree that the chat made a big mistake and they agreed on that. I think the $300 is a very generous compensation for the mistake they made.

I don't agree with you.

The fact I am a depositor doesn't mean I should know the max cash out terms of each nd bonus. I was not sure if there was a max cash out and had all rights to ask and double-check in chat. I assumed those cs people exactly knew what's going on there with their bonuses and trusted they would have given me correct details.

They should train their customer support to give correct information and not to mislead people there.
 

siilix

Registered
Joined
Jan 10, 2006
Location
the land of despair and darkness
I know that 300 USD out of 30 nd is great...

...but it is not that what I am complaining about.

It is the fact in live chat they told me one thing initially and changed that thing after I won high.
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
I share your sentiments siilix... A promise is a promise, irrelevant of what past practice applies. If you have been advised by live chat that there was no max cash out, they should honor it.

Other agreements can be made by live chat only for them to renege on the initial offering. My personal opinion is that they expressly stated that there was no max cash out, and changed the terms - PAB.

Integrity is everything - I wouldn't trust what they tell me if this is the case. Its laughable that they even attempt to hold back a $1000 WD...

Nate
 

tat00

Registered
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Location
san diego cA
i totally agree with this - they should pay for what they stated is a fact. he has it in writing and proof of what the t&c were at the time he asked. even though it was free money .

imo
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
We are often told to check terms if we are not sure. How you play a bonus with no max cashout and one with a $300 max can vary. Isn't it $350 for a wire for US players here?

Anyone can make a mistake. CW can deal with their CS any way they deem appropriate. But this CSR is acting as an agent of the casino, and they need to honour the terms they gave the OP.

When players make mistakes, by exceeding bet restrictions or playing excluded games, we are told to suck it up, and check terms next time.

This time the casino made a mistake, they also need to suck it up.
 

IanO

Regular Human
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Location
Ireland.
I can see both sides of this.

Yes the rep (mistakenly) told you there was no Max cashout, but this was simple human error. I had a little look through the published T's and C's for Club World and they could have started citing rules like 'we retain the right to alter or amend... blah blah... sole discretion... without notice.....etc etc''. I have seen similar cases at other casinos where management did exactly this, and ended with: 'The agent made a mistake, max cashout applies.. sorry about that but all you get is 300.''

Thats not the case here. They at least made a gesture to acknowledge the agents error by offering you an additional 300 in free chips. Hey.. who knows.. maybe during play through you'll hit a random and thank your lucky stars it all went down this way. :)

I can certainly see how expecting 1100 and getting 600 would make the glass look half empty, but I'd be surprised if they change their decision at this stage so try to look at it as starting with nothing and getting 600. Glass looks pretty full to me :thumbsup:
 

secret2

irishbrit62
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Location
New York, United States
I think that if you receive a ND bonus, it is important to read the T&C's. It's important to read each casino's T&C's as they may differ from casino to another for any deposit.

I know that it's a 10x on ND bonus at CWC, and some it's 5x...etc.

Although live chat told you another story it still should not void the T&C terms of that casino. Yes, the live chat rep was incorrect...but I am on the side of the Casino terms of this bonus.

I know from experience especially at Inetbet playing the bonuses on some of the slots (75% on 5 Real video slots....void on other slots...etc) that it's important that you play ONLY those slots allowed for that bonus.

I understand that you may have deposited quite a few times with CWC but still, them the rules.

$300 for free is very cool!:cool: AND a further $300 ?...that is awesome.


On a side note: This may be a warning to casinos that maybe the live chat reps should pay attention to what the player is saying and maybe repeat what the player asked, just for verification.
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
if cs has told which is clearly showed in writing here , then bottom line is they should pay, as another forum member pointed out if you make a mistake on wagering or playing a wrong game , the casino pretty much wins this case everytime & get off scot free not paying winnings so why should this be any different in the casinos case , it shouldnt ,they should pay up without trying to side step the issue & train staff with there own policys of promos etc etc )
 

DemonUK

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Location
Warrington, UK
RTG new tab for coupon details can display WR AND any max cashout. A while ago got 100 bonus for 20 pound deposit. Coupon details displayed WR but showed no max cashout. My withdrawal was 2300 pounds got 600. Small print term on letter said to contact support for terms. Saw WR displayed correctly so thought i didn't need to. Big mistake it seems as they claimed i should have contacted them to be given max cashout of 5x......PAB failed by the way. Still i don't suppose 600 from 20 is so bad. Although Idon't agree with being forced to think that way by the casinos. Incidentally the RJ was not reset but i expect the staff had a good party on the 1700 that went into CWCs unclaimed winnings pigeon hole.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
BTW their T&Cs say:

12. The maximum cashout on all non-deposit bonuses is 5x the bonus amount and the timeframe is 30 days unless stated otherwise.

Also note the 5x max cashout in the T&Cs.

Edit: they have at least once ruled against a player even if their T&Cs didnt even support it.
 

DemonUK

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Location
Warrington, UK
BTW their T&Cs say:

12. The maximum cashout on all non-deposit bonuses is 5x the bonus amount and the timeframe is 30 days unless stated otherwise.

Also note the 5x max cashout in the T&Cs.

Edit: they have at least once ruled against a player even if their T&Cs didnt even support it.

Mine was a deposit bonus
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
The OP is not being entirely truthful here.

The code he mentioned is a loyalty code which comes via email AND includes all the terms for the bonus including the max cashout.

Now, why would someone contact CS when they already possessed the information? Hoping CS would make an error?

When there is a dispute over terms, the published terms should apply. I'm sure if the CS rep had said there WAS a max cashout, and the player found later that their WAS NOT, the player would be screaming blue murder. You can't have it both ways.

The casino has been generous with an apology and a nice bonus. I don't see what else they can do.....if they bend the rules this time, it will set a dangerous precedent.

@spiderlegz

Which case are you referring to?
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Nifty29,

That's the reason I asked about the bonus code. At the bottom of the email you receive via email and the message center at the casino is the terms and conditions for the ND bonus and the deposit bonus code.

In all actuality, there should have been no reason to ask CS about this code, if indeed it was a loyalty code.

I have also won well over the limit on a ND bonus and it really sucks but the terms were spelled out plainly so I had no bitch about it.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
The live chat made a mistake no doubt about it. However, it is well-known that CWC free chips have a 10x max cashout and I believe it is in their general ts and cs. If what is stated by live chat conflicts with the casino terms, which should prevail? No-brainer obviously. The $1100 or rather $800 is of little importance but if every Tom, Dick and Harry requests that winnings from this ND have no cap, CWC could be in trouble and throw their ts and cs into disarray.. Frankly, why pick on a simple mistake made by live chat staff when you knew well in advance that there is a 10x cap on free chips. I apologise if you really didnt know, This would put enormous pressure on the support staff who are scared they will say something wrong and in the end they will be reluctant to answer anything.
 

4 of a kind

Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
New York
Player: Hi! I am playing with a no deposit bonus 30 USD (cupon NGP30M6NCD) how much is the max cash out?
Katrina: ok there is no maximum cash out for this coupon
Player: really?
Katrina: yes really

I usually don't participate in this bonus nonsense, but I disagree with many opinions here. "Siilix" spelled out the coupon code. Casino support could have punched in the code for confirmation, but apparently was to lazy and spoke on the fly.

As far as the player being a veteran member at CWC and should have known better is also bullshit. The same people here rushing to the aid of their sacred CWC, are the same people that tell others if your not sure about terms to contact support for confirmation.

If this same player made the slightest error, the casino would forfeit all winnings, and the same people would blame the player for not reading terms or should have contacted support.

It's obvious to most here that a copy of chat confirming what you said is not good enough. What about Siilix thinking it's a no max cash-out and instead of stopping at 300.00 max decided to keep going and lost it all, when he obvious would have stopped at 300.00? I also wonder what the same people here would be telling you if it was a rogue casino.

The casino rep screwed up, not the player.

Next time Siilix I would recommend you get from the casino before you play, a notarized signed document with the company seal on it, sent by certified mail with a signed return receipt.
 

mn001

Full Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Location
Casino
Live chat told you it's no maximum cashout (you presented them with the bonus code so there should not be any questions about anything here, it's crystal clear). So they should pay out in full. Anything else is a scam. Don't accept ANYTHING else.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
I didn't copy the whole email but I think you can see the similarities between the code I received and the code Siilic received. Except for the salutation and the part about the free chip, the rest is copied as I received it. Note the T&C's about the free chip and the deposit bonus are included.



DVP25V98UY - Redeem Coupon

In addition, you can claim an amazing 100% bonus on your next deposit with us. Either enter the following coupon code in the cashier as normal or click on the redeem coupon link below before your deposit:

100VIPCHCQ8 - Redeem Coupon

We have sent these coupons to you by email as well, however as emails don’t always get through make sure you check back here regularly so you don’t miss out on our VIP rewards.

Don’t forget you can contact us at any time using this messaging system as well as our usual live chat, email and toll free phone if you have any comments or questions.

Best of Luck,
Lauren
Promotions Manager

Event Rules:
* The free chips must be wagered ten (10) times before a withdrawal is permitted
* Wagers on Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, Pokers, War and Sic Bo do not count towards this requirement
* The maximum cashout from this free bonus is 10 times the bonus amount
* If the deposit coupon is claimed, the deposit + bonus must be wagered twenty(20) times before withdrawing
* Wagers on Blackjack and Video Pokers count half as much, for example a $1 wager on blackjack will only reduce your playthrough by 50c
* Wagers on Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, Pokers, War and Sic Bo do not count towards this requirement
* In both cases the bonus chips are unredeemable and their value will be deducted from the associated withdrawal

so
Yes, CS told you wrong but if you have played there before then you are aware of the terms for free chips. It has been discussed here at great length about the ineptitude of some CS. You got a good faith gesture from the casino for this. I don't see anything else that is going to come from this.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
IF the OP was sent the freechip offer in such detailed terms, I'll amend my original position. Well, sent and received I guess. If you had to claim the code, you got the email.

If this offer was sent by email and not just added to the account, with terms that clearly laid out, then I think that the CSR's error should be viewed as such.

If this was a comp added to the account without the terms attached, then the CSR's statement of terms should stand.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I usually don't participate in this bonus nonsense, but I disagree with many opinions here. "Siilix" spelled out the coupon code. Casino support could have punched in the code for confirmation, but apparently was to lazy and spoke on the fly.

As far as the player being a veteran member at CWC and should have known better is also bullshit. The same people here rushing to the aid of their sacred CWC, are the same people that tell others if your not sure about terms to contact support for confirmation.

If this same player made the slightest error, the casino would forfeit all winnings, and the same people would blame the player for not reading terms or should have contacted support.

It's obvious to most here that a copy of chat confirming what you said is not good enough. What about Siilix thinking it's a no max cash-out and instead of stopping at 300.00 max decided to keep going and lost it all, when he obvious would have stopped at 300.00? I also wonder what the same people here would be telling you if it was a rogue casino.

The casino rep screwed up, not the player.

Next time Siilix I would recommend you get from the casino before you play, a notarized signed document with the company seal on it, sent by certified mail with a signed return receipt.

The terms were in the offer email. It wasn't necessary to contact CS.

The casino acknowledged the CSR was wrong and gave them their entire withdrawal again as a bonus, which is more than most other casinos would.

In disputes regarding "he said she said" like this one, it is clear that it must come back to the written terms that the OP AGREED TO when redeeming the coupon. A regular player at CWC would KNOW that these bonuses have max cashouts, and is VERY relevant to the discussion, especially if they have claimed similar coupons in the past.

The people here "rushing to the aid of their sacred CWC" are balanced out by the people who have a chip on their shoulder about CWC (or casinos in general), and would never support the casino POV regardless. At least those who support CWC in this case have a history of supporting players when the situation dictates.

IMO this case has been very well handled by a professional outfit. :thumbsup:
 

siilix

Registered
Joined
Jan 10, 2006
Location
the land of despair and darkness
The 30 USD nd bonus was a welcome back bonus.

I found it in the casino lobby mailbox. Did not have any T&C when I opened the message, that is why I went to ask in chat.
Now, believe me or not, seems they just added T&C right under the message I was offered a nd bonus. What a joke!!:(
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I found it in the casino lobby mailbox. Did not have any T&C when I opened the message, that is why I went to ask in chat.
Now, believe me or not, seems they just added T&C right under the message I was offered a nd bonus. What a joke!!:(

Not.

In my experience, whatever arrives in the casino inbox also arrives by email.

You are saying that they went into your inbox, altered the message they sent to cover themselves, AFTER they have resolved the issue by giving you a huge bonus? Not only is that ridiculous, I doubt its even possible for them to access your inbox and edit what has already been sent.

You just didn't read the terms.

The welcome back bonuses are sent quite frequently AFAIK so I doubt it has been years since you played or anything, and I'm sure it wasn't your first experience with a ND bonus from them.

FWIW these bonuses are sent in tandem with a deposit bonus with a similar code which does NOT have a max cashout, so the CSR just got the codes mixed up....not a $900 mistake IMO.
 
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