Club Player owes me $134,350.20

[acepedro45]

I am the player mentioned in Bryan's last newsletter and his webcast. I would be happy to answer any questions regarding my dispute with Club Player here on Bryan's forum.

 

[acepedro45]

Here's a copy of my complaint to Bryan

I am having a massive problem with the Club Player Casino. After reading up on your site, I would classify it as slow paying albeit the largest offense in the history of internet gambling.

I deposited 20,000 USD with the Club Player Casino on June 16th, 2005.
I had the good fortune to amass a jaw-dropping win. Unfortunately, it has since turned into a nightmare. After they subtracted their sticky bonus, I was left with a 150k balance. Club Player will not pay me my winnings in a timely fashion, not will they respond to my inquiries.

At the time of my big win, Club Player's stated policy was that they would pay $2500 a week to their winners. To review, here are the exact quote from their terms and conditions when I made my deposit and when I made my first withdrawal:
"Withdrawals are processed in 3-7 business days and are subject to a maximum of $2500 per week."

In practice, they made only two such such payments, one on 11 August and another on 12 September. In October 05, they "amended" their policy, adding a clause stating that inactive accounts such as mine would be paid $1000 weekly at the discretion of the manager. In March 06 this amount was again reduced to $500 per week at the managers discretion.

The payments that I did receive were roughly every month instead of weekly (Id be happy to provide the complete list of dates and amounts) despite my escalating set of demands to abide by even their modified terms and conditions.

Bottom line: In the year that has since elapsed, the casino has made only 17 payments totaling $16,000 since my win...in other words, not even my initial deposit has been returned to me. $134,350.20 is still owed, plus approx. $2700 worth of comp points.

Club Players management will not return my phone calls, respond to my e-mails, or address my concerns. I have called them approximately 70 times in the past year and written at least 20 e-mails, but by a remarkable string of coincidences not once has Cynthia Williams or another manager been available to assist me, only front line customer service employees who lack the authority to make any changes to my account. I should add that I have never been anything less than polite and professional to any employee of the Club Player Casino, even in the face of such childish tactics.

As your site suggested, I submitted my problem to Montana Disputes almost two months ago. They didnt address the casinos modification of their weekly max, but managed to extract a promise from the casino to continue to make weekly payments (broken immediately).

I assure you this is not a joke. I have just discovered this resource and I would be very grateful for any assistance you can render. When stories like mine circulate, they cause embarrassment to the entire industry. I have gambled quite extensively on the internet and I am well aware that the vasy majority of the industry treats their players respectfully and honestly. Club Player has done neither one.


Thus far I have kept things entirely private but I am rapidly losing my patience. You seem to have amassed an impressive track record of player advocacy, so I will defer to your better judgement in every way. I urge you to take action to help me and I look forward to a professional response.

 

[paul02085]

I am very sorry for your situation. I must ask though, did you do any research prior to making this large deposit to see if Club Player was a solid casino? I would be very hesitant to deposit $20k into ANY RTG casino (with a couple of exceptions).
In the case of Club Player I believe they would probably go bust if they paid you all at once and probably have to struggle to pay you anything hence the delays and constant reductions in the agreed payment terms.


"As your site suggested, I submitted my problem to Montana Disputes almost two months ago. They didnt address the casinos modification of their weekly max, but managed to extract a promise from the casino to continue to make weekly payments (broken immediately). "

This proves Montana is basically worthless as most already have figured out. But really what are they going to say? They probably know Club Player hasnt got the cash. This seems to me to be another case of an undercapitalized RTG licensee who takes big action and knows if they lose they will just NOT PAY and if they win great. Really a no lose situation for a crooked casino (remember the Pirate).

I hope you eventually get paid but your heirs may have to end up collecting most of it. Another major black eye for RTG. I guess they are tired of Playtech getting all the negative press so they are fighting back.

BTW, what did you win most of it on BJ?

 

[acepedro45]

Yes, I had done a bit of research. Googling Club Player and complaints or disputes yields almost nothing. I had made a sizable deposit and win at this casino in the past and had a minimum of fuss getting my money out. I had also played at sister casino Palace of Chance and had only positive experiences.

 

[jetset]

My sympathies are with you, Acepedro - you've been a remarkably patient player despite being jerked around in the most unethical manner and I hope this can be sorted out now that the spotlight is firmly on Club Player and its management - not to mention RTG as the provider.

This is the sort of management that this industry does NOT need.

 

[Casinomeister]

At the moment, they have stated they will be paying the player $2000 per week now.

The only problem I see with this is that they are a bit behind in payments, and I thought they would cut him a check to catch up with the missed payments. I guess we'll see about that.

 

[acepedro45]

Paul, I won playing 3k bets on blackjack.

I would be willing to reduce my weekly payment to 2k/wk, but not without a catch-up check covering the previous 52 weeks.

Before I consent to any reduction in payments, I require a written apology acknowledging the casino's unprofessional treatment of me.

 

[AussieDave]

Acepedro, reiterating jetset's comment, you've shown a good deal of restraint regarding this issue. I take my hat off to you for that I doubt I'd be able to keep a civil tongue by this time.

CM glad to hear you've managed to get the ball rolling on this well over due payout, to you too.

The main reason for my post though, and no I'm not going to keep posting this stuff to every post about non payments.

Granted Acepedro is in the USA, given the amount of money involved and the fact that their are a lot of other USA players who are in the same boat, is it really that big of a surprise that the USA gov is trying to run this industry out of town.

It's unfortunate that a small minority of casino establishments want to operate with rogue like manners. We all see this type of scenario on here all the time, how many don't we hear of!

I don't agree with the bans the USA are trying to pass, but, I also don't agree that players should have to run the gauntlet every time they play online either. Eventually something will break.

 

[AussieDave]

Before I consent to any reduction in payments, I require a written apology acknowledging the casino's unprofessional treatment of me.

If your still wagering online can I suggest if your not already doing it, to only accept deposit requests when you have the terms in writing from the casino.

Obviously this would be more relivant to large deposits, but, with smaller ones make sure you take a time stamped copy of their bonus terms & general conditions of play before dropping any cash or accepting any bonuses.

Cheers

 

[acepedro45]

Trezz:

"If your still wagering online can I suggest if your not already doing it, to only accept deposit requests when you have the terms in writing from the casino."

I did keep a copy of the T & C. The technique this casino employed was to simply ignore my complaints. Conversations with support personnel usually went something like this:

Me: I noticed that you are late once again on your weekly payment. Why are you late and when will you be making your payment?

Support: I can see that you cashed out three weeks ago and we haven't yet processed the payment. I can write a note to the accounting department.

Me: I want to know why you have reduced the payment amount without even consulting me. You are in violation of our agreement and I want full payments to resume immediately.

Support: Sir, I am not authorized to take that action. It says in the notes that only the manager can make changes on your account.

Me: May I speak to the manager then?

Support: Please hold the line.

(10-15 minutes on hold. I am not exaggerating. I have put them on a stopwatch several times.)

Support: I am sorry but the manager is in an important meeting and cannot be disturbed. Please call back in an hour or so and she will be happy to speak with you.

(Repeat)

One day I even called every hour on the hour yet was not able to speak to any manager.

Paul:

I agree that 130k or so is a significant chunk of change, but I don't agree that RTG licensees can simply "hope for the best." There are significant start-up costs involved in setting up an online casino. It doesn't make business sense for Club Player or any other casino to pay the franchise fee, set up a support center, market their product, build a brand name in an extremely competitive environment and then not pay their winners. As in any line of business, the best way to make money is to serve your customers and keep them satisfied. Considering the Club Player brand will be destroyed along with Palace of Chance and Cool Cat Casino, it just isn't in the casino's interest to stiff me. I have started with Bryan's site because it it is the best, but I will have my story all over the internet if I don't receive payment.

 

[WLVRYN]

It sounds as if they've jerked you around long enough. If I were you, I'd be telling my story at every gambling forum out there.

 

[chuchu59]

Trezz:

"If your still wagering online can I suggest if your not already doing it, to only accept deposit requests when you have the terms in writing from the casino."

I did keep a copy of the T & C. The technique this casino employed was to simply ignore my complaints. Conversations with support personnel usually went something like this:

Me: I noticed that you are late once again on your weekly payment. Why are you late and when will you be making your payment?

Support: I can see that you cashed out three weeks ago and we haven't yet processed the payment. I can write a note to the accounting department.

Me: I want to know why you have reduced the payment amount without even consulting me. You are in violation of our agreement and I want full payments to resume immediately.

Support: Sir, I am not authorized to take that action. It says in the notes that only the manager can make changes on your account.

Me: May I speak to the manager then?

Support: Please hold the line.

(10-15 minutes on hold. I am not exaggerating. I have put them on a stopwatch several times.)

Support: I am sorry but the manager is in an important meeting and cannot be disturbed. Please call back in an hour or so and she will be happy to speak with you.

(Repeat)

One day I even called every hour on the hour yet was not able to speak to any manager.

Paul:

I agree that 130k or so is a significant chunk of change, but I don't agree that RTG licensees can simply "hope for the best." There are significant start-up costs involved in setting up an online casino. It doesn't make business sense for Club Player or any other casino to pay the franchise fee, set up a support center, market their product, build a brand name in an extremely competitive environment and then not pay their winners. As in any line of business, the best way to make money is to serve your customers and keep them satisfied. Considering the Club Player brand will be destroyed along with Palace of Chance and Cool Cat Casino, it just isn't in the casino's interest to stiff me. I have started with Bryan's site because it it is the best, but I will have my story all over the internet if I don't receive payment.

There are some casinos that are poorly-funded. We had the KISS casino folding after it was chastised by many forum members for not paying an under-21 year-old kid an amount of $8K last year. Not sure whether this was the only reason for its folding up but this incident must have contributed to it.

 

[Casinomeister]

There are some casinos that are poorly-funded. We had the KISS casino folding after it was chastised by many forum members for not paying an under-21 year-old kid an amount of $8K last year. Not sure whether this was the only reason for its folding up but this incident must have contributed to it.

It didn't fold, it was a part of the Giant Vegas group, and they moved to Playtech from RTG.

 

[Juki79]

Club Player tried to cheat me 700USD but I got it back from Montana after 3-4 months.

I was playing BJ at Club Player (I thought that it was ok casino, was not blacklisted anywhere) and suddenly my account was empty, they claimed I was not allowed to gamble there in the first place and so on cause Im from Finland. And tehy were telling some other s**t as well that I was the one cheating them.

Finally, after about sending them 40 e-mails, (they replied about 10 and best thing is that they accidentally admitted many times theyre cheating on me) and after contacting to Montana Disputes I got check from Panama and got my cash.

Its not that big amount of money, but tells something about that amateur casino and stupid people managing it. I truly hope you get you 130k from that rogue casino and Club Player will be closed soon.

 

[sdaddy]

Hang in there, Acepedro. As someone who's been in these type of protracted battles for large payments, I can relate. Publicizing your story through Casino Cautions was a good step. Although these places won't acknowledge it, they DO feel the pressure from the negative publicity of a case like yours. Once they realize you won't be giving up, they'll finally stop hiding and get serious about paying you. G/L.

 

[acepedro45]

So these idiots are up to their usual tactics. They have paid me 2k today, but nobody will answer any of my questions about a catch-up payment or why this payment is so late (last payment = july 12).

They have also "accidentally" stolen 1k from the account, but I am assuming that is an administrative mistake and will soon be corrected. Either way, it all adds up to one thing: seriosu gamers should not play there.

Does anybody have any suggestions for other good watch dog sites where I should post my story?

 

[Casinomeister]

...Does anybody have any suggestions for other good watch dog sites where I should post my story?

Some general advice: One effective method is to google the casino name, and usually up will pop the top affiliates for this casino (or any casino for that matter). Contact these websites and tell them your story.

By the way, your situation is still in an operation in progress, so I wouldn't go hog wild quite yet.

 

[acepedro45]

Bryan:

I will holdd my tongue for now, it just infuriates me when they continue their juvenile behavior. Thanks so much for you help again.

 

[acepedro45]

The Usual...Ho Hum

Sadly it has been 11 days since my last payment from Club Player. It appears they have suffered a relapse. I got $1500 on July 27 and nothing since then. There appears to be no rhyme or reason to what they are doing. Calls to the support staff yield the usual results.

To any potential player, I would urge extreme caution dealing with Club Player Casino, or its sisters Palace of Chance and Cool Cat Casino. The management team is unprofessional and uncommunicative, disrespectful and dishonest. Not paying what you promised to pay on the day it is due is called stealing, especially when it is part of a deliberate and willful attempt to drag things out for as long as possible.

Nicaragua, have you had any positive developments with the Shark Casino?

 

[nicaragua]

Shark is moving along, slowly, but somewhat steadily.

Any good news on your case?