Club Player Casino is charging me $3,000+ to withdraw my winnings

[acepedro45]

Club Player Casino is at it again. Not content with robbing me of a year's worth of interest on $160,000, they are attempting to impose a grotesque $75 dollar fee on every player withdrawal. In my case, the fees will add up to more than $3,000! It is beyond belief to me that the casino would attempt to confiscate $3,000 of my winnings in light of the history I have with them, but that is exactly what they are doing.

With hundreds of dollars in fees already assessed and 39 remaining payments at $75/ea., I have been complaining unceasingly to Club Player, but told monotonously that there are no exceptions to their fee schedule. Cynthia Wilkins, winner of CasinoMeister's prestigious Worst Casino Manager award, informs me that bank wire transfers are now the casino's sole option to pay U.S. players.

I protested to no avail that if the casino not wasted an entire YEAR with their childish delaying tactics, the balance would be retired by now and there would be no need to resort to costly wire transfers.

For those who haven't heard the incredible story of my original enormous win at Club Player and my battle to collect my winnings on this forum, here's the link:

Club Player owes me $134,350.20 - Casinomeister Forum

It's especially distressing to me to resort to the forum after many tranquil months with Club Player. Since they were Rogued and then restored to the site's good graces back in August, my payments have been timely and the casino has responded respectfully and professionally to all my queries.

It just goes to show you can take the casino out of the Rogue List, but you can't take the rogue out of the casino.

See Related Threads:

• My Experience at Club World
• Club Player Owes Me $134,350.20
• Club Player Casino Not Paying
• Club Player Denying Winning AND Being Rude!
• Withdrawal at Club Player Casino

 

[acepedro45]

Here's my last ultimatum to Cynthia Wilkins

Hello Cynthia,

I wanted to let you know that I am not going to accept the casino's imposition of a $75 fee on every withdrawal from this point on. With the amount of money you owe me, the fees will add up to over $3,000. I ask that you refund the fees that you have deducted so far, and provide free withdrawals until the balance in my playing account is retired.

The online gambling community simply will not tolerate such outrageous fees from your casino, especially given my playing history with your casino. Tomorrow, I will publicly make my case on the Casinomeister forum and your casino will again suffer from a backlash of negative publicity. I predict that ultimately Club Player will capitulate and end up refunding the fees.

To recap, let me spell out your options for you. You can:

A. Refund the exorbitant withdrawal fees to my account.

or

B. Force me to publicly humiliate your operation and then refund the exorbitant withdrawal fees when the public outcry damages your reputation (and bottom line).

Since in either case, you will likely end up refunding the fees, let me make a suggestion: save me the aggravation and save yourself the damage to your rep. Why don't we solve this issuer privately, constructively, and profitably instead of thrashing it out on the forum?

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[Swede]

Horrid. $75 is more than a door-to-door overnight delivery to and from everywhere in the world.

 

[silcnlayc]

Been rogued once

The online gambling community simply will not tolerate such outrageous fees from your casino,

I beg to differ on this, for I would happily pay these fees to receive my winnings in the amount of $160,000.

If , as you say, they already have been rogued once, what makes you think that your threats would worry them, especially in a forum? Do you think they care what is said about them when they have been on the list once, that just showed they don't already.

To receive $160,000 as you state, for a $3000 fee is NOT outrageous. What would be outrageous is paying 28% - 33% taxes (which comes to over $50,000 to the government) on this win, that you say you won. Now THAT is outrageous and we , in America do it every day when we win anything over $600 for a $1 bet or $1199 for a $2 bet...getting the picture? And you being in the good ole USA KNOW this and yet your screaming over a lousy $3000????

If they indeed have been paying you in installments, then I say, good for you, but to come here and bash them over such a small fee for such a large sum of money to be transferred on a regular basis and to keep the installments coming, it takes a lot of paperwork and manpower and cost in these transfers. I pay anywhere from $25-$50 doing business transfers every day, so it is not unreasonable.

I would be screaming if the installments had STOPPED, not because I was charged such a small fee....geezes...talk about shooting yourself in the foot with the post like yours...

 

[mikepipe]

>I ll try to bring you to an alternative idea:

Why dont you just wait, until you have been paid out 100% and then report that club player casino has done its duty.
Please: Seriously- - dont mention these fees.
It smells ridiculous to most of the forum members. (I am quite sure).

 

[acepedro45]

Silcnlayc & Mikepipe:

I invite you to read as much of my story as you can stomach from my previous thread. You might also find Bryan's Link Removed (Old/Invalid) from July instructive. He discusses my situation at the 25 minute mark.

As CM and many other respected posters on this forum have agreed, Club Player's conduct during this entire ordeal has been deplorable. Only the intervention of the CM and the traffic on this forum has kept their operation from essentially stealing $160,000 from me in the first place (by paying at such a slow rate the value of the $160,000 would be diminished to a small fraction of its net present value).

These people didn't win the Worst Casino Management by accident. They treat their players like dirt. I realize that because I had such a huge win, I run the risk of sounding ungrateful when I complain about the speed of the payment.

But let's make one thing clear: the casino is not doing me a favor by paying me the money they owe me. I am not asking for anything outrageous when I ask for the money on time and without these strings attached.

As a side note, overseas wires are monitored pretty closely in the US, especially in post 9/11 conditions. I have owned up to all of my gambling income on my tax returns.

 

[phynqster]

I am sure the casino would compromise with players on fees. Instead of getting lets say 2500 per week with a 75.00 fee each week, what if the casino just sent a single 10000 monthly payment with 1 single fee. This way the player saves on fees and the casino still is paying out the same monthly amount?

 

[sdaddy]

acepedro,

Don't be deterred by the naysayers. You were absolutely right to come here and complain about this latest outrage by Club Player Casino. First of all, as you pointed out, it's their own damn fault that they wasted the opportunity to pay by less costly methods when they were still available. The player, especially one that's been put through the hell that you have, should not have to pay that price. Second, the interest they already collected on your unpaid winnings should more than cover any costs to pay your bank wire installments.

This is pure and simple just another money grab by these clowns. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

 

[siriuscirrus]

I understand where you are coming from Pedro. It's like adding salt already to the wounds.

 

[siriuscirrus]

I am sure the casino would compromise with players on fees. Instead of getting lets say 2500 per week with a 75.00 fee each week, what if the casino just sent a single 10000 monthly payment with 1 single fee. This way the player saves on fees and the casino still is paying out the same monthly amount?

In a perfect RTG casino paying world would that ever happen. These casinos will do whatever they can to stall or use other tactics.

I believe these casinos have the money to do that and could probably payout everything in one lump sum. Never will happen and never will.

 

[acepedro45]

Originally Posted by phynqster View Post
I am sure the casino would compromise with players on fees. Instead of getting lets say 2500 per week with a 75.00 fee each week, what if the casino just sent a single 10000 monthly payment with 1 single fee. This way the player saves on fees and the casino still is paying out the same monthly amount?

Yes, I made that suggestion. They told me that the schedule had been worked out to everyone's satisfaction by Bryan and they would not deviate from it.

Originally Posted by sdaddy
Second, the interest they already collected on your unpaid winnings should more than cover any costs to pay your bank wire installments.

Well said.

 

[silcnlayc]

Why rock the boat?

my payments have been timely and the casino has responded respectfully and professionally to all my queries.

Your exact words as printed, but yet you come here to complain over the fees imposed. This is what I was addressing. They ARE paying. It is not like they stopped. Yes, the CM does miracles for us and for that we are more than grateful in every sense of the word, but for you to UNDUE all the work he put into getting these funds to you in such a fashion, is truly ungrateful.

Yes, I made that suggestion. They told me that the schedule had been worked out to everyone's satisfaction by Bryan and they would not deviate from it.

For now they can say, you broke an agreement etc etc and toss the agreement they came up with between you and the casino and CM and just not pay you anymore. What are you going to do ? Sue them? Get real. They don't have to pay you at all for they are in another country and people will still play at their casino whether you post anything detrimental about them or not. THAT is a PROVEN fact. So in essence, you might be saving them money by the post you did. This is what I was stressing in my post.

To complain before collecting all your funds made what the CM did almost worthless. He has better things to worry about than a poster and a winner that is getting funds in a timely manner as you state to fight this battle all over again. He did what he promised, got your money coming in to you in installments as per ALL RTG casinos T&C's state (limiting on withdrawals on winnings).

Whether you claim all your winnings or not in the USA, really doesn't matter one bit for any win from online is money that can be confiscated in whole, by the government, because it was money gotten by illegal means. Wire and bank transfers.

 

[nicaragua]

To receive $160,000 as you state, for a $3000 fee is NOT outrageous. What would be outrageous is paying 28% - 33% taxes (which comes to over $50,000 to the government) on this win, that you say you won. Now THAT is outrageous and we , in America do it every day when we win anything over $600 for a $1 bet or $1199 for a $2 bet...getting the picture? And you being in the good ole USA KNOW this and yet your screaming over a lousy $3000????

This is blatantly ridiculous.

First, when he deposited, he had a free withdrawal option available to him, so was under the impression that should he win, there would be no fees. The amount of his win is not relevant here, merely the amount of fees. The casino is making him pay $3000 in fees when he was expecting to pay no fees. (Note I am assuming his original method did not carry a fee. Correct me if I am wrong.)

More importantly, comparing a fee imposed by a casino to taxes is asinine. While I respect your libertarian views, the fact is, taxes provide services that you use every day directly or indirectly (roads, schools, national defense, etc). To compare a casino fee, from which you gain absolutely nothing except a service that was originally told to you would be free, to taxes which you agreed to pay before making the bet, and from which you draw many benefits is completely foolish.

Sorry, but your argument here is extremely ridiculous.

 

[acepedro45]

(Note I am assuming his original method did not carry a fee. Correct me if I am wrong.)

Nicaragua, you are of course correct.

Let's suppose I was in a real casino and I cashed in a $100 chip. If they handed me $90 and told me to be grateful I was getting anything at all, I would have a fit.

And I think the point made by sdaddy bears repeating: while they delayed my payouts for most of 2005, they easily recouped the costs of this transfer in interest.

 

[GemG7]

The original agreement didn't have any mention of fees. IMO there should be none now with the remainder of the payments owed.

 

[silcnlayc]

With all due respect, I was not trying to compare it to paying taxes. I was trying to make a point over the fees. If that is the impression I gave, I am sorry. I was pointing out how ridiculous his demands were considering the changes in online gambling before collecting ALL HIS FUNDS.

First, when he deposited, he had a free withdrawal option available to him, so was under the impression that should he win, there would be no fees. The amount of his win is not relevant here, merely the amount of fees.

The amount is VERY RELEVANT due to the structure of payouts in the T&C's. Every RTG has a limit in withdrawals regardless of what is won. That was my first point. Installments in the amount he won were guaranteed to be paid that way (in payment plan) without any intervention by the CM. The second thing I was trying to get across was, they DON"T HAVE TO PAY because they know they will still get traffic regardless of whether he demands these fees back or spreads anything about this casino. Thirdly, to threaten them with this over such a small amount BEFORE getting all his money (except the fees) is purely suicide was the other point.

To compare a casino fee, from which you gain absolutely nothing except a service that was originally told to you would be free,

Due to the changes in the law, the casino has a right to modify the way they charge fees if they themselves incur them through no fault of their own. All withdrawals were NOT FREE. Some had fees. The casino did not change the laws and withdrawal options. The US did. Wouldn't this be a fair statement since he was aware of the payment plan with a win such as his in place before any intervention ?

 

[The Dude]

I'm trying to figure out how they come up with a $3000 processing fee. Something like this only happens in bizarroland, but then...

 

[silcnlayc]

Let's suppose I was in a real casino

You even believe it is not a "REAL" casino. Another point I forgot to mention......thank you. This is why you do not DEMAND anything or threaten until you get the bulk of what you are after.....

 

[acepedro45]

silcnlayc:

I took the "wait and see, don't rock the boat" approach you advocate from June of '05 to July of '06. Know what it got me? Barely $16,000 of MY OWN MONEY paid back to me and not a nickel of winnings! When I posted here last July, I got results.

You correctly point out that they are not under the obligation to pay me. That's right, if they so choose any online casino can just steal player's deposits and there is no legal recourse. But there is a remedy for dishonest conduct from a casino and it is this site and others like it.

The system Bryan has built here works. Mechanisms like the Rogue Pit have a powerful effect on operators. It proves that in today's operating environment, a casino cannot simply railroad a player without consequences to their reputation and to their bottom line.

In a way, I am drawing a line in the sand because I have learned by hard experience that it is the only way to get what's fair from this group of operators. If I tolerate $75 fees without squawking, I wouldn't be suprised to see more fees, maybe an "inactive account fee" or some other nonsensical excuse for them to profit at my expense. As President Bush once said "fool me once..."

 

[winbig]

That's right, if they so choose online casinos can just steal player's deposits and there is no legal recourse.

If I was owed $100,000+, I'd fly over to where they're at and pay them a little visit

 

[vinylweatherman]

First Move

silcnlayc:

I took the "wait and see, don't rock the boat" approach you advocate from June of '05 to July of '06. Know what it got me? Barely $16,000 of MY OWN MONEY paid back to me and not a nickel of winnings! When I posted here last July, I got results.

You correctly point out that they are not under the obligation to pay me. That's right, if they so choose any online casino can just steal player's deposits and there is no legal recourse. But there is a remedy for dishonest conduct from a casino and it is this site and others like it.

The system Bryan has built here works. Mechanisms like the Rogue Pit have a powerful effect on operators. It proves that in today's operating environment, a casino cannot simply railroad a player without consequences to their reputation and to their bottom line.

In a way, I am drawing a line in the sand because I have learned by hard experience that it is the only way to get what's fair from this group of operators. If I tolerate $75 fees without squawking, I wouldn't be suprised to see more fees, maybe an "inactive account fee" or some other nonsensical excuse for them to profit at my expense. As President Bush once said "fool me once..."

This is a risk, but let it be THEM that rock the boat first, not YOU. If it is THEY who kick off with more crap, then respond with vigour, but otherwise hold still till they have paid everything less the $3000 fee. Then, and only then, ask if they might like to reconsider the fees given that the length of time they took resolving the issue lead to the fees being far larger than they should have been. Worst case scenario here is you are down $3000, and not over $100,000.

 

[sdaddy]

Due to the changes in the law, the casino has a right to modify the way they charge fees if they themselves incur them through no fault of their own. All withdrawals were NOT FREE. Some had fees. The casino did not change the laws and withdrawal options. The US did. Wouldn't this be a fair statement since he was aware of the payment plan with a win such as his in place before any intervention ?

What do you mean it's not the casino's fault it's in the position where it has to pay by costlier methods? Please, the casino has been dragging this out since '05! I really don't get why you're going to such lengths to excuse the casino's unacceptable behavior here.

BTW scroll up and you'll see that even Bryan thinks these added fees go against the agreement he worked out.

 

[acepedro45]

This is a risk, but let it be THEM that rock the boat first, not YOU. If it is THEY who kick off with more crap, then respond with vigour, but otherwise hold still till they have paid everything less the $3000 fee. Then, and only then, ask if they might like to reconsider the fees given that the length of time they took resolving the issue lead to the fees being far larger than they should have been. Worst case scenario here is you are down $3000, and not over $100,000.

I understand the point you are making, and I did consider that angle. But I judged that letting the fees pass without comment made them fait accomplis for Club Player. "Gee," they would say, "if the fees were such a problem, the player should have said something from the beginning when we could have done something about it." Club Player has a history with this technique.

During the original dispute, the casino had a laughable e-mail exchange with Bryan where they said I "seemed fine" with them taking so long to pay, despite my daily and sometimes hourly calls to them voicing my complaints. In other words, they were trying to use the length of time they had gotten away with their BS as evidence that it was acceptable.

That's why I choose to take things public, even though they still owe me 76k and change.

 

[cyprean]

A few things in this thread seems ourageous

1. Club Player charges $3k in wire fees - that is obviously too much. Another nice way to screw the player once more. They are creative you have to give them that.

2. You have had to wait for a year for them to pay you

3. That a Rogue Casino like Club Player would actually pay a player a hefty sum of over $100k. This would be a very rare act from a scoundrel casino.

I would be happy if they just paid me what ever I could get. If there was a market that where you could sell "balance" at Club Player they would probably give you $10-20k at most for your over $100k balance there even without any fees. I don't wanna be discouraging (I am), but this is how Club Player and other similar RTG casinos are viewed. It's like monopoly money what you got there.

You are right that you should not let them push you around TOO much and have them charge those ridicilous fees. However they will do what they want 99% of the time and probably try to screw you more if you let them - so you got a point there. You might possibly get this fee minimized and your money faster if your receive enough players' attention and it impacts their inward cash flow. But as they say, gamblers will never stop gambling. There are so many players who ignore the warnings and still go and proceed to play these rogue sites that you wouldn't believe. I guess gambling is not enough to them, you have to gamble on receiveing your money also with the very worst odds.

 

[acepedro45]

But as they say, gamblers will never stop gambling. There are so many players who ignore the warnings and still go and proceed to play these rogue sites that you wouldn't believe. I guess gambling is not enough to them, you have to gamble on receiveing your money also with the very worst odds.

I disagree here. This site and the shame method works, and I am proof. Since I brought my original case to the public's attention, Club Player was forced to play ball. Since I began posting evidence of their treachery, they have paid me more more than 50k, making more or less regular payments since then. Why have they done so? Because they are nice guys? No, they did it because the negative publicity affected their bottom line and their business situation.

The point I am making is that your reputation is all you have as an online casino. They do monitor very carefully what the public thinks of them. I could talk to Cynthia Wilkins on the phone until I was blue in the face, but if I post here, I get results. This site is a respected high quality operation, and negative stories like this one are a big problem to any casino that aspires to anything more than online thuggery.

Even after all that has happened, I honestly believe Club Player would like to grow their business and be successful; they just have terrible management.