Changes in signature rules

[4 of a kind]

A website is a lot of hard work and it's not something that you do once and you are done.

As you could see I certainly have no clue. Besides if I'm on my computer, I'm usually busy pissing my money away.

 

[JHV]

Would it not be good idea, though, if ALL links in signatures were banned, including those of the moderators?

Surely it would be great for visitors to be reassured that the moderators were not just posting for marketing reasons too?

Whilst we agree on the core issue, I strongly disagree with the above. Look at Bryan's sig links above - or at Max's - they're the links people come to this forum to find.

Bryan would be a mad St. Francis of Assisi type (illogical) saint for doing over a decade of work like this without any form of reimbursement for effort. I personally think he's mad (from a business point of view purely) to allow posters any links at all that aren't nofollow - but I admire him for it. It standing proof right in front of our eyes that the $$ is not his primary motivator - if the $$ were, not a single link that wasn't his would be on this site, and we wouldn't be discussing this issue now. On my poker forum, a link that wasn't ours lasts as long as a green 2nd Lieutenant straight out of West Point leading his men into his first contact (firefight) in the Vietnam War. (You can google it if you're interested in military stuff - someone did a fascinating study on it.)

-------

People come here because they need Bryan's help (my hand in is the air for that being my only reason for first posting here)....or they are tired of getting ripped off and they want someone they trust to tell them which casinos are safe and which are not....or they care (on some level) about the shocking (current) nature of the industry and want to do something to maybe change it.

Or they're here for commercial reasons. Which I have no personal problem with at all! I only care if their advice to new players is...or their stated opinions are....unfairly influenced by their partnerships with various casinos. I care about THAT!

 

[jas2587]

Ah Cindy, I don't dislike KK! Actually, it's very unfair on KK for me to use this particular example when really I just saw so many examples of what I (at the time) thought was evidence that the CM forum was just a bazaar of vested interests (I no longer believe it is what I believed it to be - if I still did, I'd never post here again - what would be the point, right? I got nothing to sell and not looking to buy - so have no business in a marketplace.)


If I thought the forum had become merely a marketplace (as I did briefly), I'd just leave everyone be. I misread the mood of the forum initially - as I likely misread KK (when Rusty responded and he didn't, I was like "boom - there's the reason right there in his links") - but, like you say, he might not have seen my question, or if he did see it, he probably felt I wasn't worth responding to (completely valid position and CORRECT way to treat someone who you believe is a troll, as KK may have believed then, and might still believe me to be).





I
ok I will give ya that 1 an ty 4 answering in a very polite way
I will go with he just didnt see it

Cindy

 

[dendrite]

Look at Bryan's sig links above - or at Max's - they're the links people come to this forum to find

Hi JHV,

Are you talking about the internal links in the signatures? I'm referring to the external links - the ones to unrelated portals that take the visitor away from Casinomeister...

I'm just wondering whether when a visitor sees some advice in a post, but also see a link to an unrelated online casino portal in their signatures, whether they see that post in a different light?

Do they trust someone as much if the signature contains an advert to an external, unrelated portal, or is there a feeling that the posts could have an underlying marketing aim (especially if they have made thousands of posts), no matter how good the advice being given?

I don't know the answer, just interested.

The main reason I'm interested is that I'm invested in a web2.0 'build your own social network' technology start-up (unrelated to gambling) and these questions seem quite important

 

[Jasminebed]

I'm sorry I'm not sure where to find it, but I am sure that I've read that Casinomeister revenue comes from advertising, not as an affiliate. So I don't think that the move away from links in signatures is related solely to that.

We now have webmasters listed in green, a move I think is great. I've visited the websites of most of the long term posters here at one time or another.

Brian put forth the suggestion to add "Click on my profile to see my cool website" or something to that effect. Webmasters might consider adding something like that as their custom user title, right under their name.

Most of the webmasters and affiliates here participate beyond just increasing their site traffic and SEO placement. I trust that will remain true.

 

[JHV]

Hi JHV,

Are you talking about the internal links in the signatures? I'm referring to the external links - the ones to unrelated portals that take the visitor away from Casinomeister...

I'm just wondering whether when a visitor sees some advice in a post, but also see a link to an unrelated online casino portal in their signatures, whether they see that post in a different light?

Do they trust someone as much if the signature contains an advert to an external, unrelated portal, or is there a feeling that the posts could have an underlying marketing aim (especially if they have made thousands of posts), no matter how good the advice being given?

I don't know the answer, just interested.

The main reason I'm interested is that I'm invested in a web2.0 'build your own social network' technology start-up (unrelated to gambling) and these questions seem quite important

I'm confused about which links you're referring to? The only links I see in Bryan's sig are these:

Useful links: ~ Accredited Casinos ~ I-Gaming Representatives ~ Evil Section ~ My Wish List ~ Donate Now! ~
Mission Statement & Player Philosophy

Apart from the Amazon link, all those links are internal.

Max only has internal links in his sig.

---------

As to what a new player is likely to think when advice is coming their way from a source which is covered in links - one can only speculate.

I would say the vast majority of players would not even see a conflict-of-interest situation. The vast majority of people just don't really think in those terms, I think. I would guess they'd be more likely to think:
"This guy (or girl) is really nice and helpful and welcoming - I like him (or her)!" (then they click on that poster's links, see some suggestions for casinos to try, and they're off to the races....)

My main problem I guess with the links in signatures thing, is....THAT. If done correctly, you could make a hell of a lot of money doing this with relative ease* (if you had the industry experience to give advice those new players are after, and various other skills / connections / etc). And, being a cynic, I am very much the kind of person who knows how lines which are clearly black to white to one person can become miraculously grey or even invisible to another when $$ comes into play. And I guess (because I'm personally not here to make money) I don't want the CM forum to have much "grey" at all - I'm a realist at the end of the day, but for some things, Black and White positions are really ideal - and I think 'aiming' for idealistic goals and settling for 'realistic' ones is optimal, imo.

*Before bb28 throws her popcorn at me, when I use the word 'ease', it's with the obvious caveat these things are VERY relative (ofc). I fail miserably at things most people find easy, but succeed at others things most people would find very challenging. I've worked directly with online casino affiliates for years, am now directly involved in online poker rakeback (rev share affiliate, effectively), and I own some advanced (in terms of coding) websites and stuff. But I seriously spent about 40 minutes trying to get my TV to display to my eyes pictures of an F1 race a couple months ago (with zero success), before I had to call in a specialist - who (ahem) plugged one cord into a socket at the back of some unknown aspect of the complicated puzzle of unknown components attached by cables which are foreign and mythical to me and all my remote controls (who were facing imminent punishment / destruction / possible death - under suspicion of Traitorous Organised Mutiny disguised as Fail) all magically started working again. I'm sure these kinds of succeed/fail comparisons are true for all of us.

Whilst bb28 is not incorrect in saying a website isn't a "wham bam thank you ma'am" knock-up job, she's kinda implying it's harder than it *really* is (imo) with her popcorn comment - I could have a few guys I know from sedo(dot)com create a better website than almost all of the ones I've skimmed over here in the last month in a couple weeks for relative chump change. And I could write better content than a lot of the sites have (or pay content writers to pump out better content) in about the same period of time. I'm not going to be able to compete for many of the top 500 online gambling search terms because I don't have the money to throw at it, or the expertise or the personal moral code which would allow me to employ black hat techniques (but I have other ideas which are potentially genius / potentially retarded about about how to solve that particular marketing problem [intentionally coy here for, should I ever get out of my life funk, I'll be experimenting with these ideas]) - but if my marketing target is online casino players in the CM forum, the SEO game can be left to the PN's/PL's of the world fighting the Black Hatters for all I care - success or failure in marketing very much comes down to...basically...avenues you have available to market and how skilled you are at converting those avenues into $. And it doesn't take a genius to realise that the CM forum is a wonderful place to market online casinos, or that new online casino players are NOT a tough crowd to 'sell' to, particularly if they've had some bad experiences - who frankly, who hasn't in this industry...

I guess what I'm trying to hint at, without offending anyone, is that it would be fairly easy to make a VERY good living doing just that - and that I know some people are making a very good living doing just that - which is totally cool imo - so long as they remain objective and ethical. Which is extremely hard to police, as who does the policing because *that* job would get about as tricky as a job gets.

So I'm sorry to respectfully disagree with you bb28, but when we're talking how 'easy' something is, we must talk in relative terms, and the 'ease' of making a fantastic income just working the CM forum crowd as an online casino affiliate....blows 99% of other jobs out of the water. When people are making a living out of doing something, hell yes, some might get really annoyed if you even bring attention to it, let alone potentially threaten their livelihoods. I think I would need 1000's of posts here before it would be possible to even contemplate achieving *potential* positive results attempting such a mission (in terms of bringing specific names forward for group discussion). And even then, it would be a drama nightmare reaching levels of chaotic proportions.

 

[KasinoKing]

If I thought the forum had become merely a marketplace (as I did briefly), I'd just leave everyone be. I misread the mood of the forum initially - as I likely misread KK (when Rusty responded and he didn't, I was like "boom - there's the reason right there in his links") - but, like you say, he might not have seen my question, or if he did see it, he probably felt I wasn't worth responding to (completely valid position and CORRECT way to treat someone who you believe is a troll, as KK may have believed then, and might still believe me to be).

I only used it as an example because I was reading KK's website and he's asking for feedback CLEARLY dated as posted in 2006 - he's OBVIOUSLY not still looking for feedback! Come on, it's obvious I'm being cheeky - hell I think I even clarify I'm messing around.

Everyone hear knows how I feel about InterCasino. I'm making jokes about it now rather than ranting - surely that's better, no?

Just a few responses;

I can not get the link Jas posted to work, so I don't know which question I didn't answer...
But I trust Rusty to have answered it OK for me!

Yes I am always looking for feed-back, even though that was posted in 2006. There are a lot of 'background' pages on my site which I know are way out of date - something I keep meaning to update, but never quite get round to - you know how it is!

As to the rest of your postings; I'm not offended at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you haven't been rude or insulted me, so no problem.

Unlike you, I am not a "trained webmaster" - I know pretty much zip about HTML. If you look closely you will see that my two main websites are literally just Word and Excel documents uploaded to the web!
I'm just a player turned webmaster who wanted to share my winning experiences with other people and provide casino & bonus information in the format I would want to see myself, but I couldn't find on any existing websites.
So I just learned the absolute minimum basics needed to get a website up & running.

Of course I am interested in making money from it - but not at the expense of players getting ripped-off or cheated in any way. In my ideal scenario, players who sign up through my sites would do exactly the same as me; e.g. they would play 6 casinos per month, lose at 3 and profit at 3. The total profit would be higher than their total 6 deposits, so they'd be happy. I'd get some income from their 3 losses, so I'd be happy. The casinos... well tough titty!

Cheers!
KK

 

[JHV]

The casinos... well tough titty!

TOUGH TITTAY CASINOS!!!

I'll drink to that. Every day of the week. Sometimes twice a day.

-----

Oh, I should clarify I suck at HTML and any form of programming. I just like hiring experts at $6/hr who have good work ethic.

 

[lots0]

JHV - You have said several times you own websites... Hire programmers and writers...

Isn't this your site...
xxhttp://www.rakebackstat.com/

Why not have Bryan add you to the webmasters list?

 

[WagerWitch]

OK about the signature thing... I'll finally throw my 2 cents in.

I'm a webmistress to a boring affiliate site that ranks high in some Google SEO words. I make VERY LITTLE money off of this site - But I have put a TON of work into it. Hmmmmmm....

When I come to Casinomeister - I come as ME... And most of you know me. Over all the forums I've shared with you - through the last decade of gaming that I've shared with you. Most of you know me.

I think my link - which is rather unobnoxious (I hope) is not NECESSARY - but I DO like it being there. I don't think of it as being something that DRAWS away from Bryan's site. Because as an AFFILIATE himself (and YES - Bryan draws affiliate revenue) - a lot off us affiliates are SECONDARY affiliates to Bryan's affiliates.

So "IF" we make money on affiliate links that we got from Bryan's links - then BRYAN makes a percentage (or should) of what we make.

So - it is in his INTEREST for the secondary affiliates to actually make money...

And as we all know as players - we don't always pick the FIRST link to download a casino that we see... Sometimes we like to visit many sites until we are either sure of the site/casino or we are in the mood to download it.

AND - we all know that NOT all of the casinos listed on the other affiliate sites are listed here on CM.

So - with that being said - if an Affiliate is a smart affiliate - they will have gone through Bryan's links - and signed up through Bryan's links.
And If Bryan is smart - he will leave basic links to affiliate sites out there - as long as they aren't grossly annoying.

(AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION - DOES NOT MEAN IT HAS TO BE THIS WAY).

I also think, because I know that I do, provide RECIPROCAL linkage back to CM - then it is a fair allowance to allow my link to stay.

(in just my way of thinking)

I don't think that people often click through my link on this site - but occasionally a few do.

When I am on CM - I do NOT promote my site actively by pointing people to it... And I feel as though I am a part of a community and group.
And I am only showing MY brand - to this group. I am not flaunting it - I am merely saying - HEY - this is me.

BUT - I can see the points - that if you are displayed here a lot on many different pages that you may achieve higher PR... I hate to tell you this - but UNLESS you have MULTI links from MULTI places your PR is NOT going to get higher. The CM link --- no matter how many pages of it - is only going to count as ONE. The googlebot is not stupid enough to say - OH lookie - JOEBLOW is on 50 pages of CM --- that's 50 points. NOPE... If you're listed ONCE - that is enough.

Look at WHO LINKS TO ME.

It will help you make more sense of your SEO point --- SO if you ARE only answering a million posts just to get your link posted a million times - give it up - you are absolutely wasting your time.

If you are here to help the community - GREAT - be proud of your site. But don't OVER DO your link. It shouldn't be loud or glaring - that is DISRESPECTFUL to Bryan or the other members who have to read your stuff - AND YOUR damn glaring link.

I say that by being listed as a webmistress - I am VERY proud. It's not a downfall... I learn a lot - share a lot - and teach a little by being here.

This IS not my marketing spot tho - and anyone who thinks that AFFILIATE links draw people to other people's sites - they need to look at the sites... And again...

As most of you already know - the gambling world is small.

MOST OF US HAVE ALREADY SIGNED UP TO ALL THE CASINOS AVAILABLE ALREADY _ so its not like there are a lot of new places to go to.

Yanno?

The affiliate juice has already been spread out.

Anyhow - I guess my main thing was - an APPEAL to Bryan to NOT destroy the HTML hyperlinking - but to instead enforce a rule where that is ALL that is allowed - a VERY discreet link to offsites.

I agree that any other SIGS are annoying... But I see it as an important function of who each person is - and where they can be looked up --- I see it as a badge - and nothing more.

But I'd hate to see it be taken away from everyone.
And maybe...

An idea would be to get a report button for every post - that would send a report to whoever moderates - for (SPAM) (EXCESS LINKING) (TOS VIOLATION) (RUDE BEHAVIOR) (BAD LANGUAGE) (EVIL PERSON) (EVIL CASINO)

LOL - or more... yanno?

But still again - I appeal to Bryan and staff to please not lose the discreet linking in the signatures.

WW

 

[Alexandre]

Hi people,

As some of you may already know, I'm an SEO and I've seen so many forums polluted by spam, autopromotion, link droping posts that I've always asked myself how CM could handle that in this kind of industry.
I always visit the website in the sig of a good poster, it's like to click on the About Us link of a website but it is very hard to handle for the admin of the website.
Maybe sig should be OK for webmasters with more that X posts, X reputation points, X days of running account, etc...or a mix of these metrics.
At the moment, I've removed my sig and I think it's a good thing.
Let Bryan take a decision, quietly, without putting on him to much pressure.
If we keep sigs, I'll be more than happy, if not, it's OK for me.
I'm just afraid that without sigs, some of us are going to start promoting their website in a more heavy fashion.

 

[JHV]

JHV - You have said several times you own websites... Hire programmers and writers...

Isn't this your site...
(URL removed)

Why not have Bryan add you to the webmasters list?

It's one of them, yep. I'm not an online casino affiliate. I may become one at some point. I haven't really felt like working at all this year, though.

 

[dominique]

Ok, I missed something here and I don't have time to read this whole thread right now.

I received a mail telling me to remove the link and so I did - but I see others still have working links.

What happened?

Personally I think signatures are positive - they are a sign that you stand behind what you do and don't mind everyone knowing and scrutinizing.

But, being a forum owner myself, I totally understand the frustration that comes with spammers and people who have nothing to say and post just to display the signature.

I figure signatures can be earned, that's the way I handle it on my message board. If someone contributes useful posts and over a period of time, then I allow the sigs.

Anyway, until I hear it's ok to keep a sig, I have mine removed.

 

[Webzcas]

I don't think Bryan has got round to disabling them yet, what with getting ready for Copenhagen.

 

[WagerWitch]

I would still ask - implore - beg - plead... That Bryan consider allowing very small unobtrusive links to stay.

Bottom line is - tho - it is absolutely his choice as this is his site.

 

[BingoT]

I do have to say Bryan did this and all should follow his rules until he decides what is best.
This is his house.
What is good for one is good for all until than.
~T~
I do have to agree with WagerWitch
"Bryan consider allowing very small unobtrusive links to stay."
This all reminds me of the Promo area you had a few years back and you took that away too.

 

[Punters Choice]

Never had a chance to place a link...but I think its for the best.

 

[maxd]

I would still ask - implore - beg - plead... That Bryan consider allowing very small unobtrusive links to stay.

I remind you that Bryan sent this out last week to all members:

Dear member,

*disclaimer - this is a mass PM

Recently there has been an issue about signatures and how some members are exploiting the board with their usage. There are rules that govern the use of signatures, and one in particular 4.2 - Content Restrictions You may have a link to your own website or services, but there must be no promotional language like "Best Casino" or "Fastest Payouts". Affiliate links are NOT permitted.

Unfortunately, It's virtually impossible to monitor everyone's signature, so beginning tomorrow hyperlinks will be disallowed from signatures except for Moderators, i-Gaming Reps, and Managers of Affiliate programs.

If you have hyperlinks in your signature, please remove them as soon as possible since it will appear as code shortly. It will look yucky.

Please don't forget that you are allowed to list your website (or websites that interest you) in your profile - check your User CP for this. Thanks!

Sincerely,

Bryan

I don't mean to be picky here but unless I'm missing something that request of his should apply to you too, no? AFAICT you are not one of the exemptions: "Moderators, i-Gaming Reps, and Managers of Affiliate programs".

Until you hear from him that his policy _has_ changed I would think it only respectful to comply.

 

[WagerWitch]

It has been fixed.

Thanks Max...

I thought I had fixed it last night. Must have retarded out.

But I still IMPLORE and beg, ask, plead, request, grovel, send ice cream, beer, cherries with whip cream...

Or how much do I have to pay to become someone who can keep a very small non-obnoxious link at the bottom?

 

[maxd]

But I still IMPLORE and beg, ask, plead, request, grovel, send ice cream, beer, cherries with whip cream...

Thanks for the fix. But sorry, B's call on this. I'm sure he'll chip in when he's back from EIG/WPC.

 

[WagerWitch]

Thanks for the fix. But sorry, B's call on this. I'm sure he'll chip in when he's back from EIG/WPC.

Awwwwww... come on - I got a fiver here for ya...

 

[maxd]

Awwwwww... come on - I got a fiver here for ya...

Nice try.

 

[Webzcas]

I also removed my signature links pointing to my sites when Bryan brought this new rule in. Hence I am now only linking out to parts of CasinoMeister which are helpful for new members here.

I believe Bryan has a links directory on the site or did have, whereby he would consider link exchanges with webmasters. Might be worth asking him for a link trade if this is still running.

Signature links are not worth much seo wise. However with a site with the volume of traffic that CasinoMeister gets they can prove useful in getting traffic from your posts.

To this extent I can fully understand why Bryan brought this new rule in. As unfortunately there are always some people who will abuse the ability to link out in their sigs to less reputable sites.

BTW BingoT if you want more links I can do a recip with you

 

[lots0]

Signature links are not worth much seo wise.

Very true, especially when Bryan has the sig links 'no-followed'.

WW you might be best served doing like someone said earlier (Sorry I forget who) Put a message under your name something to the effect... "To Visit my cool web site, click my name" or something similar.

 

[The Dude]

Well I'm back and rather p.o'd.

I had no idea that this would be an issue worth discussing - yet here we have a multi-page thread - webmasters up in arms over a policy that changes the sig rules. So in short, you are participating here just to boost your site or gain some traffic? This long and hard about that - that is extremely self-serving in my opinion.

And even when I changed the policy over a week ago, a number of you decided to just drum your fingers, roll your eyes and wait, some even changed the link to a pseudo link - WTF?

Tell me why I shouldn't just shut off the sigs globally, or a least just for the webmasters.

 

[WagerWitch]

Well I'm back and rather p.o'd.

I had no idea that this would be an issue worth discussing - yet here we have a multi-page thread - webmasters up in arms over a policy that changes the sig rules. So in short, you are participating here just to boost your site or gain some traffic? This long and hard about that - that is extremely self-serving in my opinion.

And even when I changed the policy over a week ago, a number of you decided to just drum your fingers, roll your eyes and wait, some even changed the link to a pseudo link - WTF?

Tell me why I shouldn't just shut off the sigs globally, or a least just for the webmasters.

It's your site Bryan - absolutely. WITHOUT A DOUBT...

And if you want no signatures that is cool.

Reasons (as you asked) - I hope I'm answering the question you asked.


I DO like clicking easily on the small link below other people's posts to get to their sites if I want to. So for me --- about other people - it means EASE of use.


This is just me:


Do I participate in CasinoMeister Forums to boost my traffic? NO.
I haven't seen a lot of traffic from people from CM - I think maybe 20 in a year??? or something like that. Which is cool - and really nice, and I appreciate it a lot... But that isn't why i like it there.

Do I only want "MY" link in so that people want to click on me? NO. I mean -I love it when I get visitors and comments and people using my bonuses HECK YA --- But really - I just think it makes it easier than having to click on my profile to get to that info... Still - its not the real reason why I like signatures.

Do I want to leave my link just for SEO? NO (because I know it makes no major or real difference - the slurpmobile only really looks at one link... For the WHOLE site - RIGHT?)

I guess overall - just like it there - maybe to save people time - or just as a "pride" mark, I dunno.

But still - Again - I really have no space to talk. THIS IS YOUR SITE... And I do see that many people have made links that are horribly blinky or very annoying, etc.....

And I don't know why I'm bothering to tell you - because I certainly do not want to upset you, since I do like you... You're funny as all get out. I just thought maybe my 2 cents would be worth something, perhaps.

I guess I just kinda feel like my site is my baby - and the link is kinda like my badge of honor... Dunno if that makes sense...

To me - my signature now - with or without the link -- I think its pretty - and it's small and I colored it and put an underline to emphasize it... To me - it's my little badge of pride about my work that I have done. Yanno?

Anyhow - hope I don't upset you --- I didn't realize that this was a topic that wasn't open for feedback and discussion - regardless of the decision or final decision.

 

[zebedy]

Dont people still have links to there homepages here , or am i missing something,
does it matter if the link is below there post, or in the drop down box by there screen name, i cant see how it could matter that much, a link is still a link

 

[WagerWitch]

Dont people still have links to there homepages here , or am i missing something,
does it matter if the link is below there post, or in the drop down box by there screen name, i cant see how it could matter that much, a link is still a link

Why am I getting Picked on?

 

[BingoT]

WagerWitch

[COLOR= "DarkSlateBlue"]WagerWitch [/COLOR]
Change it to this.
WagerWitch

 

[dendrite]

Tell me why I shouldn't just shut off the sigs globally, or a least just for the webmasters.

Shutting off the sigs completely for everyone sounds perfectly OK. I think it would make the forums even more readable. People can just visit the profile page if they want to find out about the poster, so I don't really see why people would have issues with it

Something confuses me about this solution to this spam problem, though...

If the reason for disallowing links is simply because of spam, it sounds as if you like the idea of links, but not when they are spammy in their format. If that is the case, then there must be a way to allow links, but to present them in a non-spammy way. Limit the number to say, three links, present them with no colors, sizes, fonts, or surrounding text, but just a simple, plain text list of links that would look something like this:


------------------------
https://www.casinomeister.com/
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/
https://www.casinomeister.com/poker/

 

[dominique]

, some even changed the link to a pseudo link - WTF?

Ok, what's a pseudo link - is that what I have? Maybe this needs to be a bit clearer, because I assumed this is what you wanted...

 

[dendrite]

I think it was what I put in one of my earlier posts, Dominique (13th September 2009, 02:26 AM)

I put it in hoping to have a bit of a jovial laugh when the links got switched off, I thought someone might notice and say "hey look, why isn't that link switched off?" - just for a bit of fun (well, at 2am in the morning, when I put it in, I thought that might be a comedy moment, anyway, lol)

But then the debate moved on, with people getting all annoyed and then I found I couldn't go back and edit the post...

 

[lots0]

Tell me why I shouldn't just shut off the sigs globally, or a least just for the webmasters.

Turn em off, don't matter to me one way or the other... never has.
As a matter of fact I will remove my link from my profile right now and would you please remove me from the webmaster group... I'm tired of being green.

Bryan I gotta laugh about about your comment

...that is extremely self-serving in my opinion.

I know it is probably not cool to find humor in that statement, but then I am a very cynical old man.

 

[dendrite]

Bryan, here is some data that might help explain why this has become more of an issue than you predicted it would

The debate here made me go and look at my google stats (I used to have a link up in my sig) to see what sort of traffic the site got directly from Casinomeister. Remember I only have 90 posts, so am very low profile here, but these were the stats nonetheless:

130 visits
89% new visits
4.1 page views per visit
3.06 minutes on the site per visit

The stat I don't get to see, however, is how many of those went on to click banners, become players, deposit etc. It's not possible to get that from google analytics, so I can't say whether the traffic made me money or not. I just don't know

But, what if I had thousands of posts, rather than 90? - the traffic could be considerable. It might even be bringing thousands of online casino enthusiasts to the site every year and many of those might bookmark the site and click banners, play at the casinos etc. So, you would have to say that for some posters here, the links could have generated quite a bit of revenue, no matter what they say

To be fair, I think most newbie webmasters like myself just put links in because experts at GPWA and CAP tell everyone that if you do take part in forums, you may as well add your links in the sig. The idea was that you might just get an SEO benefit as an added bonus to posting. I'd never thought about direct traffic from the links before, but now I looked at the data, it makes sense. Thousands of posts and thousands of sig links could equal significant dollars

The other thing this data tells me is that you might get a deserved and unexpected positive effect from taking out the links - it will probably mean tens of thousands of people that were leaving your site to visit portals in the sigs will now stay at casinomeister and hopefully click your banners instead. That is great, imo as it's your site and you should get the rewards

Finally, there is also the benefit of the newly discovered 'no follow link-sculpting' revelation by google. For those that don't know, all the pro SEOs have recently been telling their clients to remove all unnecessary 'nofollow' links from there sites asap, after it was revealed by Matt Cutts of google that this could hurt a site's position in the search engines

So, overall, this has to be a good move by you - for a start, the forums will be easier to read without links, they will be a much better place to visit. But also, you, as the owner, deserve the unexpected benefit of not leaking traffic via the sigs and also deserve the other unexpected benefit from the link-sculpting situation. It's a win win situation and hopefully very good for this excellent site and its forums

The only people it will hurt are the webmasters that were being helped out by the traffic from the links

 

[lots0]

I only have 90 posts, so am very low profile here, but these were the stats nonetheless:

130 visits
89% new visits
4.1 page views per visit
3.06 minutes on the site per visit

Thats because you are new and the regulars here were checking you out.

I have well over a thousand posts and I don't get that many visits from here in six months.

Actually I have found that because of some of the things I have posted here (speaking your mind has a cost).. having my link in my profile here has hurt my site far more than it has helped... hence my decision to remove my link.

Do any of you remember the minesteringangel thing? Those friggin jerks spent six months trying to hack my site... they found my site only because of the link in my profile here.

 

[RobWin]

Well I'm back and rather p.o'd.

I had no idea that this would be an issue worth discussing - yet here we have a multi-page thread - webmasters up in arms over a policy that changes the sig rules. So in short, you are participating here just to boost your site or gain some traffic? This long and hard about that - that is extremely self-serving in my opinion.

And even when I changed the policy over a week ago, a number of you decided to just drum your fingers, roll your eyes and wait, some even changed the link to a pseudo link - WTF?

Tell me why I shouldn't just shut off the sigs globally, or a least just for the webmasters.

I thought that based on what you had previously said in your post, your email and your Private message that you were going to turn off Sig's globally but I may have misinterpreted all of that because I see peeps here now who had nothing but writing in their Sig's that now look like this "COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]WagerWitch[/COLOR]" as my Sig below does too... and then I still see several other peeps who are not mods have live links that look like this....(just using Spear as an example) there are others too...Sig Pic below taken at 12:35pm EST 9-19-09

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so IMO I think everyone is still confused about what is allowed and what is not just to be fair to all. Like the others have said, it is your forum Bryan and I for one respect that and as you noticed on day 1, Thurs. Sep. 10th when you first issued this statement for everyone to remove their links, I complied with your wishes and removed mine immediately as posted in this thread on page one I believe. So there again I have to assume that this was a volunteer thing to do out of respect for your wishes I presume.

Here we are now 9 days later and there are still several peeps here who still have live links as of my posting this. Personally I would not add my Website Sig back to my posts here now if I was told by you it was ok. Hell, before I became an affiliate back in January of this year I had already made almost 4000 posts to Casinomeister over the previous 5 years IIRC, so I can live with the Sig's or without the Sig's myself. I can even deal with the text looking like crap in my current Sig below.

What does peek my curiosity though is why some of the other highly respected members here that are not mods have chose to leave their Sig's live and also why they don't look like crap like some of the others do, does that in fact mean that they too think they are getting benefit or link juice out of those live Sig's?

 

[BingoT]

This all reminds me of the time where you had a promo area for members and you took that away.
And that place you can post any link to any poker,bingo,casino you have to offer.
But I do have to say many members that use to post in that area are no where to be found today.and to me they are the one's that used you.
And some members are still here after all that like myself.
Life goes on.
~T~

 

[WagerWitch]

This all reminds me of the time where you had a promo area for members and you took that away.
And that place you can post any link to any poker,bingo,casino you have to offer.
But I do have to say many members that use to post in that area are no where to be found today.and to me they are the one's that used you.
And some members are still here after all that like myself.
Life goes on.
~T~

I dunno - I promote Casinomeister on my site.

I have both links and a VIDEO on that - I also twitter interesting info - and tell people to come here.

That does not sound like I'm "USING" anyone.

I like signatures - as long as they aren't annoying or flashing...

Just me.

 

[WagerWitch]

I removed my signature and whatever that extra stuff (HTML) showing was...

SO y'all boogers can quit pickin' on me... Sniffle (cry) Sniffle...:Angel:


Just FYI - I rank 21-30 in Google for Casinomeister Forum.... Which shows that I do absolutely PROMOTE Casinomeister.

 

[WagerWitch]

By the way - I didn't realize that BEING AN AFFILIATE was considered a bad thing - SINCE IT WAS AN "option" as a group of people.

I thought it was a badge of honor...

Kinda like I think putting your site below your name as a signature was.

I guess Others have differing views - and AFFILIATES are scumbags or something.

I mean - that is what I'm getting out of all of this.

Well - I'm not a scumbag affiliate... That's all I want to say. I'm a decent affiliate - and I share links and I put people in my site - and actively promote others... And you know what? I'm also a very nice person. So there... Pfffffffffftttttt.

 

[The Dude]

By the way - I didn't realize that BEING AN AFFILIATE was considered a bad thing - SINCE IT WAS AN "option" as a group of people.

I thought it was a badge of honor...

Kinda like I think putting your site below your name as a signature was.

I guess Others have differing views - and AFFILIATES are scumbags or something.

I mean - that is what I'm getting out of all of this.

Well - I'm not a scumbag affiliate... That's all I want to say. I'm a decent affiliate - and I share links and I put people in my site - and actively promote others... And you know what? I'm also a very nice person. So there... Pfffffffffftttttt.

Hi all,

Some of you are taking this way way too seriously. I already explained the reasoning behind this - many members who were ignoring the current guidelines. There was nothing wrong with placing a link to your website with a brief description or catch phrase. But when the rules explicitly stated "No ad copy language 'Best Casinos', 'Best Bonuses', etc.," then that was the impetus for their removal.

They will probably come back, but only after one of the mods goes through and ensures everyone has made the necessary changes.

And if the shoe fits, wear it. It seems that a bunch of you are thinking I was implying it was you who sparked the change - it wasn't; this is change I was contemplating for some time.

 

[TOC]

Everyone is talking about a message board here, how hard is that? If you want a board that allows links then lets start one, are we not webmasters? I personally don't add my link here, don't need it but would be willing to help with a board that allows links if this is really a big deal. It's not the end of the world and the internet is a big place! If not deal with it and move on...

 

[jetset]

Trying to get back to the root of this 10 page thread isn't easy but I have the perception that it was the players who originally objected to the links and the overt manner in which some members of CM were allegedly using the forum to promote their wares.

I guess at least some of this issue comes down to one question - do you visit Casinomeister for the more upfront benefits of PAB services, the enjoyment / interaction with the other members and relevant information about a shared interest.....or is your main objective to use a very popular and respected website and an influential webmaster to further your own fortunes in a business sense?

The other comment that disturbed me some pages back was the implication that coming here on a regular basis and offering advice and help in some way made overt promotion more acceptable for some individuals.

I don't share that view - we're all here because we want to be here (for one reason or another) and noone has compelled us to come or to contribute. Whatever the extent of our involvement, I believe that in general most of us have probably received more than enough in general to keep us returning....and I therefore don't think this site owes any of us 'special promotional dispensations'.

 

[dominique]

I have always thought of a signature link to your site as the honorable thing to do.

It identifies you and shows you stand behind your site, it shows that you invite scrutiny, and it makes it perfectly clear that you are an affiliate.

I guess I have always been annoyed by affiliates who preach this or that but won't tell you what their site is, makes me feel they are hiding something. I prefer transparency.

But, either way, it isn't affecting the usefulness of Casinomeister.

Dendrite, that's a lot of visits. I get maybe 4 or 5 and probably will continue to get these anyway - and I send players from my site to Meister also.

 

[lots0]

I have always thought of a signature link to your site as the honorable thing to do.

It identifies you and shows you stand behind your site, it shows that you invite scrutiny, and it makes it perfectly clear that you are an affiliate.

I guess I have always been annoyed by affiliates who preach this or that but won't tell you what their site is, makes me feel they are hiding something. I prefer transparency.

I guess we all have our own definitions of 'Honorable', 'self promotion' and 'spam'.

I have removed all my links from CM. But the links from my casino directory to here remain in place. I don't see this as 'dis-honorable' I see it as practical. When you are an out spoken, opinionated jerk like myself the negatives of having promotional sig links here out weigh the positives, at least in my opinion.

Most(but not all) affiliates that promote their site here and elsewhere with sig links are afraid to speak their mind for fear of retribution from the casinos, affiliate programs and anyone else that they may 'accidentally' offend or expose.

God forbid that you say something here that may cost you a buck or two.. So some affs think it's just better to say nothing at all or just be 'nice' to the Rogue ass holes so they don't come after you.

 

[WagerWitch]

I'm not afraid to speak my mind...

But I also don't like to hurt ANYONE'S feelings or make things bad.

I try to see the positive side to everything.

I do see it as a badge of honor tho - and thanks Bryan for thinking about putting it back - I would really appreciate it - even if it is a few months down the road.

Interesting tho: Within ONE DAY of removing my link - my site jumped UP at least 5 spaces in almost EVERY keyword on Google.

Just an FYI - for those who thought that keyword linking and backlinking here made a difference.

In my opinion - it may have had a negative impact --- and even if that is true - (I don't know for sure) - I would still want my link on here - because I am proud of my site - and do think of it as a pride issue - and not necessarily a LINK issue. I mean - if people really want to see me - they CAN go to my profile page here... so it isn't "THAT" hard.

Anyhow - Bryan - thanks for at least looking at the issue from all sides.

WW

 

[aksana]

Links, links, links, I'm tired to hear that links are very important for SEO, "your website can't live without links". Today I have talked to a one SEO manager, who tried to sell me his links from thousands of his sites, and I tried to explain him that buying links is not very important (maybe I'm wrong), but for me it's really not important, but he couldn't understand my position.

I stopped exchanging links two or maybe three years ago, and my site is still live, and moreover now I have much more traffic than I had earlier. I'm very glad that I'm not worried about any links.

Of course, if it's allowed to add links to signatures I'll do it, because it's allowed

And I like this new rule, because the forum really becomes very clean.

Sometimes strict rules make us only stronger!

 

[dominique]

Forum links are not worth anything in google. No matter how many you have, they are counted as one.

That's why forum link spammers are usually hit and run - hoping their one link survives.

Google is up-dating to caffeine at this time and that's responsible for any changes in serps.

 

[RobWin]

Forum links are not worth anything in google.

That's not what Google Webmaster Tools is telling me, 10 days ago it was showing me 396 backlinks from "Forum Posts" here, and now it is showing me 294 backlinks from "Forum Posts". The backlinks are now dropping off the radar like flies in a Raid spray...

The 396 number had gradually been increasing over the past 6 months. I check it everyday in GWT so I have been keeping a close eye on the pulse of my backlinks all this year.

No matter how many you have, they are counted as one.

Are you sure about that? I have evidence of just the opposite from pics taken straight from "Google Webmaster Tools".

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If that is not backlinks from "Forum Posts", then someone please explain to me why Google is counting all those links there? And that is just from one page in Google Webmaster tools.

I can also show you the exact same scenario in Bing and Yahoo too.

I keep hearing some of you guys state the fact that they are not important and that Google does not count them or that Google only counts them as one when I can clearly see that that is definitely not the case. I think it also confirms the fact I mentioned in my previous post about why other members here have failed to remove their hyperlinked "Sig" links even after being asked to do so!

I could be wrong about this, wouldn't be the first time I've ever been wrong. But the fact still remains why some are allowed to keep the hyperlinks "Live" and others have even had non hyperlinked Sig's turned into a 'script look' like this (

"). See "Sig" below!

I will even be more than happy to remove my remaining couple of links from my profile page too if needed and if that is Bryan's wishes, but I still would like to keep it real here by knowing how others managed to dodge this "Sig" bullet and still to this very minute have "Live" Sig Links in their Sig's? I'm not talking about mod's either. Did I miss something here? I hope you see those as fair questions there.
____
____​

 

[dominique]

From what I have heard, no matter how many you have, they are still counted as one.

Google shows you there how many you have. It doesn't mean they carry any weight.

Google obfuscates links on purpose, never believe what counts you are shown.

Yahoo webmaster tends to be more accurate.