Bonus Complaint Betfred Not Paying £7.5k Win Due to Single Mistaken Bet

[cheekydancer]

Not many of these anologys make sense.
Regarding the speeding one, if you could prove that you were speeding and it wasn't down to you, or wasn't your intention, then you wouldn't get fined for it. Not sure what scenario in what that would happen, but when it comes to law, it's what your intention was that counts.

Obviously cars don't have little buttons that make you speed without you know knowing, so you can't really compare the two.

 

[Nifty29]

Not many of these anologys make sense.
Regarding the speeding one, if you could prove that you were speeding and it wasn't down to you, or wasn't your intention, then you wouldn't get fined for it. Not sure what scenario in what that would happen, but when it comes to law, it's what your intention was that counts.

Obviously cars don't have little buttons that make you speed without you know knowing, so you can't really compare the two.

Of course you won't ADMIT they do, because your whole argument falls (more) flat on it's face if you do.

Nobody else except YOU can make YOU speed...that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard this week.

If you went to court, and when asked why you were speeding, you said "well it wasn't my intention", it would make it more likely you would get a LARGER penalty LOL. Actually, "intention" means very little. If you hit someone "unintentionally" whilst speeding, you go to jail....whether you "meant" to or not, you killed someone whilst breaking the law. Even if you hit them "unintentionally" and you were NOT speeding there is still a good chance you would go to jail for being "careless" on the road.

You broke the casino term because you were "careless". I actually don't really care if you're an AP or not, or what you were or were not trying to do, because you broke the rules and that's "end of". Too bad, so sad. Next time do what a sensible and responsible person would do and 1. Stop, 2. Contact the casino and 3. Wait for an answer. If you had, you might be saying how wonderful BF are because they were so reasonable by allowing you to continue on the basis you wouldn't do it again (which is EXACTLY what BF or any other good operator would have done IMO and have done in the past) and celebrating your $7500 win. Either way, it is YOUR fault....grow up and accept the consequences of your actions and quit blaming everyone else.

Oh and BTW...there IS a "button" that makes you speed "without knowing"...it is actually a PEDAL called and ACCELERATOR. It can do precisely that if you aren't watching your speedometer carefully whilst pressing it. Another "excuse" down the drain. What next....your invisible friend who didn't read the terms pressed "spin" without you knowing?

@Mouche. Do you ever actually examine the facts of a case yourself? You seem to agree with the player side regardless of what they do, and just thank everyone who does the same. I guess all those failed PABs has left you so bitter you are unable to be in any way objective...?? Maybe you have been caught by these kinds of terms before? Something is definitely affecting your judgement.

 

[cheekydancer]

No there isn't a button on a car that many people wouldn't know about that would make you speed.

Do a poll. How many people who drive know that the pedal makes you speed - 100%

How many slot players know the space bar button does a slot spin: less that 50% I would guess.

Pretty big and obvious reason why you can't compare the two things.

 

[dionysus]

Ok. Throw the analogy out.
End of day, it comes down to breaking a term which was accepted , not about driving. If 50% of people didn't read the terms, then those 50% get what's coming.
That's why they're there and have an accept button.

It isn't the casino's job to teach you how to use your computer and send mental reminders not to leave a connected KB on the floor beside the computer.

 

[cheekydancer]

I would gladly put this to the test in the small claim court.
I've done a bit of digging and the only company I can find for Betfred is in Gibraltar. Does anyone know of a UK registered company for Betfred?

 

[Nifty29]

No there isn't a button on a car that many people wouldn't know about that would make you speed.

Do a poll. How many people who drive know that the pedal makes you speed - 100%

How many slot players know the space bar button does a slot spin: less that 50% I would guess.

Pretty big and obvious reason why you can't compare the two things.

= the reason why further debate is pointless.

I would the love the transcript from the small claims court hearing.....especially the part where the magistrate shouts "HAHAHA" followed by "case dismissed".

 

[cheekydancer]

What a nice person you are nifty. Hoping someone doesn't succeed after making an obvious mistake which they didn't know was even possible.

 

[dionysus]

Nifty might be curt -but direct.
Did you come for opinions in the matter or just to have people make you feel better?
The greater amount of people are telling you -you don't have a leg to stand on.
If it works out, kudos. If it doesn't a lot of people told you why.

 

[cheekydancer]

He said he would love it what the judge basically laughs in my face. Why would he love it? It's very mean.

If they would laugh at me, how did all the people get their bank charges back that were in the banking terms? My case would be much stronger than all those.

Anyway, it looks like they are based in Gibraltar, not sure if they would have the same small claim court thing there.

 

[Nifty29]

He said he would love it what the judge basically laughs in my face. Why would he love it? It's very mean.

If they would laugh at me, how did all the people get their bank charges back that were in the banking terms? My case would be much stronger than all those.

Anyway, it looks like they are based in Gibraltar, not sure if they would have the same small claim court thing there.

The only reason I said it that way was to show how pointless IMO it would be to take it to court.

How do you know your case is "stronger"...? Are you a lawyer?

As I said, grow up and accept the results of your actions...mistaken or otherwise.

I find it amazing that this "keyboard that is on the floor while you play" only ever ONCE produced an unwanted spin, and it just HAPPENED to be the EXACT moment that you had too many lines selected. Hmmmm....HUGE coincidence methinks...almost TOO big. Almost sounds like "Oh damn I hit SPIN too early...forgot to leave those other lines out....oh well hopefully it won't matter" that became "Oh yes...I hit the space bar....yes that's what happened" after some people suggested it might be the cause.

HOWEVER....bottom line is YOU don't KNOW how it happened:

I'm not sure how it spun, they said it wasn't an error on their side, but I am thinking I may have pressed a button on my keyboard (is this possible

Now, amazingly, you're SURE that's what happened. Very convenient. My spidey-sense is telling me that you either a) don't have the first clue how the slot started spinning, or b) you make a mistake by hitting SPIN too early without double checking the selected lines. You don't even know what the actual spin amount was. I think it is b), but you are claiming it is a) but you've gone from "I'm not sure" above to "Oh yes it was definitely my keyboard" now that some CAE members have come onboard trying to invent excuses for you.

IN any event, both a) and b) are NOT the casino's fault...they may not be 100% your fault entirely either, but you are the responsible party by being the only party that is at fault in any way, and must take responsibility. Mind you, an adult would have taken responsibility already, and said "well I stuffed up...live and learn" and maybe even taken some lessons out of it like "maybe I shouldn't be AP'ing and betting right at the top end of the max bet, or at least be far more careful in future"....but the fact that you still refuse to do so just shows you're one of these "I want freedom to do what I want but want everyone else to cop whatever happens as a result" people who just never grow up and always want others to play Mummy and Daddy for them.

 

[cheekydancer]

I'm sure you would not be saying this if it was your lost winnings.

Well after I was told the space bar could do a spin, it was the only logical explanation left, as I didn't press the mouse button. The casino said there was no error on their side, so the space bar was the only remaining possibility.

Anyway, anyone know of the UK Betfred company? I'd like to give it a try.

 

[petr1]

The only reason I said it that way was to show how pointless IMO it would be to take it to court.

How do you know your case is "stronger"...? Are you a lawyer?

As I said, grow up and accept the results of your actions...mistaken or otherwise.

I find it amazing that this "keyboard that is on the floor while you play" only ever ONCE produced an unwanted spin, and it just HAPPENED to be the EXACT moment that you had too many lines selected. Hmmmm....HUGE coincidence methinks...almost TOO big. Almost sounds like "Oh damn I hit SPIN too early...forgot to leave those other lines out....oh well hopefully it won't matter" that became "Oh yes...I hit the space bar....yes that's what happened" after some people suggested it might be the cause.

Nifty, how does your post show it's pointless to take it to court? Few posts earlier you told you don't know what would happen in court but now suddenly you know it's pointless?

Your post didn't show anything else expect you being a jerk.

 

[Blathaon]

I'm sure you would not be saying this if it was your lost winnings.

Well after I was told the space bar could do a spin, it was the only logical explanation left, as I didn't press the mouse button. The casino said there was no error on their side, so the space bar was the only remaining possibility.

Anyway, anyone know of the UK Betfred company? I'd like to give it a try.

Old URL

Petfre (G) Ltd
You have to sue the Petfre (G) - BUT you would have to sue in Gibraltar.
If you read their terms I am sure it says that the agreement is governed by their domestic law

Any idea if there is a procedure like the UK "Small Claim" in Gibraltar?

I would think so as they are based on the UK system.

What about my claim for my winnings? Do you think I have a case to recover my winnings?

In the UK bets are binding in honour only and as such you would not win in the UK.

I can't say about how this works abroad but in the UK you would not win.

If you are serious about wanting to pursue legal action you should get in touch with a lawyer, instead of trying to get legal advice here at CM.

I agree with what Nifty and others have said, i would think that you have no case . Unless a casino commits Fraud i don't think any disputes have any legal merits(Note i am only giving my opinion, i am not a lawyer).

 

[chayton]

@ the OP somewhere back in the first couple of pages in this thread I posted a link to where you can file a formal complaint with Gibraltar. At least it's free (unlike lawyers) and you can see where it gets you. Chances are that they will say you broke a term so you're SOL, but at least then you'll feel like you've done something.

In the meantime this thread is ready for a fork I think, I can't believe it's still going.

 

[mathsboy1975]

I would gladly put this to the test in the small claim court.
I've done a bit of digging and the only company I can find for Betfred is in Gibraltar. Does anyone know of a UK registered company for Betfred?

I would strongly advise you to drop this to save yourself more hassle. The terms are clearly laid out. You yourself have admitted that you knew at the moment the reels spun that you had exceeded the bonus maximum. It will cost you money to get legal advice on this matter and I would be prepared to bet next months salary that any solcitor/lawyer would tell you that you have no case to move forward. You knew the terms, they were not adhered to (for whatever reason - user error, faulty keyboard, random computer memory malfunction accidentally altering the bit pattern corresponding to the value that was your stake) and so in the eyes of the law, betfred will not be under any obligation to pay you out for winnings obtained using their bonus obtained in a way that violated their conditions.

If you really need to pay more money to a lawyer to get told this then maybe you should do as you seem unable to let this go. As with any bonus, until the WR is met, the money is not yours and you should never think otherwise. Similarly if you break the terms, any profit is wiped out completely. It really is as simple as that - I am not being unkind I am just trying to appeal to your common sense on the matter and save you further heartache.

 

[The Dude]

I was just following your logic that "life ain't fair" . Don't like personal references but saying "who guaranteed life's fair?" on a board that aims to be the "Advocate of fair play since 1998" (known formerly as "The players advocate") seems strange and out of place.

"The Players' Advocate" was too lawyer-esque. and it was suggested that I should change the site's motto. "Advocate of Fair Play" it is. Some people got all twisted out of sorts since the word "player" wasn't included - which is absurd since fair play applies to all.

I would gladly put this to the test in the small claim court...

Then please do. If you need further information, you can head the advice of some of the posters here, or contact the Casino rep, Aaron, who could point you into the right direction as well.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

Nifty, how does your post show it's pointless to take it to court? Few posts earlier you told you don't know what would happen in court but now suddenly you know it's pointless?

Your post didn't show anything else expect you being a jerk.

No need for name calling. When people ask for opinions, they will get them. No need to get personal.

..In the meantime this thread is ready for a fork I think, I can't believe it's still going.

I think so too. Any other votes for forkification?

 

[chuchu59]

Fork it Bryan lol.

 

[maxd]

Any other votes for forkification?

++forkification!

 

[stokes]

Just before the forkification.

A similar thread from the past https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...d-due-to-violation-of-30-bet-size-rule.47764/ where even Nifty was more leniant (because of Christmas ).

"I know I cop schtick for being a stickler for rules being applied to everyone, but the more I think about this case, the more I feel that the intent of the player should be re-considered.

As others have said, the OP didn't need to bet big to clear WR and he just kept playing the same slot he just won on, do its very clear that they were not trying to gain an advantage of any kind.

Mummys Gold could generate some great PR by showing some humanity and common sense and pay the player his winnings, or at least reset his balance to before his bet was raised and let him play out the bonus.

In almost every case, these confiscations are the result of advantage players making large blackjack etc bets which is fine because its the reason the rule was implemented, but in this case I really think it is a dolphin caught in the tuna net.

It's Christmas for goodness sake.....pay the player!!"

 

[dunover]

Forkification. PLEASE! This crapola has gone round in so many circles we're getting dizzy..........
The OP is clearly so intransigent and deaf to the logic of others and still hasn't posted her play logs.
Bin it. Please.

 

[Nifty29]

Just before the forkification.

A similar thread from the past https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...d-due-to-violation-of-30-bet-size-rule.47764/ where even Nifty was more leniant (because of Christmas ).

"I know I cop schtick for being a stickler for rules being applied to everyone, but the more I think about this case, the more I feel that the intent of the player should be re-considered.

As others have said, the OP didn't need to bet big to clear WR and he just kept playing the same slot he just won on, do its very clear that they were not trying to gain an advantage of any kind.

Mummys Gold could generate some great PR by showing some humanity and common sense and pay the player his winnings, or at least reset his balance to before his bet was raised and let him play out the bonus.

In almost every case, these confiscations are the result of advantage players making large blackjack etc bets which is fine because its the reason the rule was implemented, but in this case I really think it is a dolphin caught in the tuna net.

It's Christmas for goodness sake.....pay the player!!"

The difference.....the player at Mummys Gold was obviously NOT an AP nor attempting any kind of AP, nor betting large bets from the off. The player in THIS case at BF obviously IS an AP and their betting shows this. IMO, genuine...and I mean GENUINE "dolphins"...and they can be easily spotted from their play logs...should get some kind of slack. The MG player struck me as very genuine...so much so that they didn't even consider the max bet % rule as they never bet big enough to worry about it.

The OP here was a "tuna" who caught THEMSELVES in the "tuna net". No sympathy here.

Anyway, you're obviously trying to discredit me somehow by showing me doing something that you and others tell me I SHOULD do....LMAO. Make up your mind So dry has the well of excuses for the OP become, that people have to dredge up 18 month old posts about a completely different situation. Desperation in the extreme.

IMO the OP should crap or get off the potty i.e. submit a PAB or get over it.

>> FORK PLEASE <<

 

[stokes]

The difference.....the player at Mummys Gold was obviously NOT an AP nor attempting any kind of AP, nor betting large bets from the off. The player in THIS case at BF obviously IS an AP and their betting shows this. IMO, genuine...and I mean GENUINE "dolphins"...and they can be easily spotted from their play logs...should get some kind of slack. The MG player struck me as very genuine...so much so that they didn't even consider the max bet % rule as they never bet big enough to worry about it.

The OP here was a "tuna" who caught THEMSELVES in the "tuna net". No sympathy here.

Anyway, you're obviously trying to discredit me somehow by showing me doing something that you and others tell me I SHOULD do....LMAO. Make up your mind So dry has the well of excuses for the OP become, that people have to dredge up 18 month old posts about a completely different situation. Desperation in the extreme.

IMO the OP should crap or get off the potty i.e. submit a PAB or get over it.

>> FORK PLEASE <<

Why is the Mummys Gold a completely different story? Because of the large bet? So everyone who bets large are AP? What a clever AP, plays one losing spin overbet

By the way, where is Betfred? I don't see them jumping in to flag the OP as a bonus abuser. 23 pages and no comment from them.

Frankly, I don't care what you should do. I just wanted to show that there are different opinions on this matter than yours (and others supporting BF in this matter).

I hope those who are so strict with the rules in this case applying the same principles in their private life following every rule every time (no jaywalking, no speeding etc.).

 

[The Dude]

We be done here