Bonus Complaint Betfred Not Paying £7.5k Win Due to Single Mistaken Bet

[Balthazar]

What should I have been betting? Thought it was standard to bet around 5-10% of your balance?

Now you sound like a bonus abuser who's trying to play the newbie card. Newbies don't make £1000 first deposits.

 

[Blathaon]

In a perfect world everyone would read the T&Cs but I'm afraid many, if not most don't read them at all. By reading this you accept that I own you until you die. I'm not a lawyer but I could imagine that they can't legally do whatever they want by writing it to the terms and conditions. Confiscating money is IMO on the grey area. Confiscating £7500 due to single bet even though the casino accepted the bet?

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13. Players cannot bet more than 20% of the bonus amount in a single bet or game round on any of the casino games for the duration of the bonus.

19. The decision of Betfred management is final and binding in all cases.

All we know is that the OP broke the rules that she agreed to, and the casino has the right to confiscate the winnings. I highly doubt they confiscate the initial deposit amount.

I am no lawyer so i cannot say whether this is legal or not, I would assume most casinos have lawyers go through the terms and conditions when they write them up , to make sure they are following the laws.

Almost every casino have terms like this. I agree that having technical solutions in place to prevent you from breaking the rules would be good, but this is not how things are and the rules are pretty clear, however unfair you may find them to be. And as i have already said, You are not forced to take the bonus.

 

[DepositSpinLose]

too bad so sad

i agree with everyone that said that rules are rules.....no in between

 

[mathsboy1975]

It seems that all softwares like to design this "max bet mistake" into their games by making the most dangerous button as close as possible to the most used one.

Yeah I totally agree - I have been stung a few times by hitting the "Bet Max" button. Of the top of my head I don't know if this works on ALL slots but I have been stung by Immortal Romance and Iron Man 2 before. In itself it would not be a problem but when you hit "Bet Max" it actually automatically spins the reels too leaving you no chance to reduce the stake again if you hit it accidentally. As a software engineer myself, I consider this a seriously flawed software design IMO - at the least there should be a "Are you sure?" dialog pop up or an opportunity to decrease your stake before spinning.

I guess with slots there is a distinction between who the customer is - the player of the casino. I can see why the casino would be happy with an "Increase bet to maximum AND spin automatically" button, but to the player (IMO) this is not a useful feature.

 

[mrmark21]

When customers accept a bonus they agree to be bound too any terms and conditions attatched.

The problem is some casinos attatch predatory T&Cs. Newbies tend not to even be awre that they are entering into a contract. I think before customers accept bonuses they should be made to read the T&Cs and tick the relevent box that they agree to be bound to them. IMO that would solve many of these issues.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

If this had happened at 32Red, for example on their welcome deposit bonus and you accidentally bet larger than £6.50 (think thats right) once and didn't win anything you'd probably be allowed to continue had you notify the support first.

The problem begins when everyone starts 'accidentally' hitting the max bet button. If you let one person off.....

 

[Nifty29]

Yeah I totally agree - I have been stung a few times by hitting the "Bet Max" button. Of the top of my head I don't know if this works on ALL slots but I have been stung by Immortal Romance and Iron Man 2 before. In itself it would not be a problem but when you hit "Bet Max" it actually automatically spins the reels too leaving you no chance to reduce the stake again if you hit it accidentally. As a software engineer myself, I consider this a seriously flawed software design IMO - at the least there should be a "Are you sure?" dialog pop up or an opportunity to decrease your stake before spinning.

I guess with slots there is a distinction between who the customer is - the player of the casino. I can see why the casino would be happy with an "Increase bet to maximum AND spin automatically" button, but to the player (IMO) this is not a useful feature.

I will just reiterate once more.

The OP did NOT press max bet. It is totally irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Again...this is the problem when people pass off their assumptions as fact.

The max bet button has always been there to save a lot of clicking etc. I'm not sure exactly where some people want it placed, but where it is has never been an issue for me....at least no more than any other button anyway.

I can see the idea of an "are you sure?" message when hitting max bet going down like a lead balloon with most people.

FWIW....players DO tick a box agreeing to abide by all terms and conditions when creating a casino account. Some casinos have a "deny/accept" option as well for each bonus. In any case, you snooze, you lose.

 

[chuchu59]

I will just reiterate once more.

The OP did NOT press max bet. It is totally irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Again...this is the problem when people pass off their assumptions as fact.

The max bet button has always been there to save a lot of clicking etc. I'm not sure exactly where some people want it placed, but where it is has never been an issue for me....at least no more than any other button anyway.

I can see the idea of an "are you sure?" message when hitting max bet going down like a lead balloon with most people.

FWIW....players DO tick a box agreeing to abide by all terms and conditions when creating a casino account. Some casinos have a "deny/accept" option as well for each bonus. In any case, you snooze, you lose.

That's why its necessary for the OP to state how she arrived at the bet size of 110 or 120 whichever it is. For the former its likely to be 22 lines x $5 and that could only be achieved by clicking on the no. of lines button 3 times assuming its a 25-liner. Should the bet be 120 its likely to be 24 lines x $5 and it was erroneously clicked on once by the player. In any case the OP did press the spin button after fixing the bet amount that IMO she is more likely at fault if the spin was $110 than $120. What she needs to prove is she did not press anything once the bet was fixed at 100 but I guess its a huge mountain to climb.

 

[mathsboy1975]

The max bet button has always been there to save a lot of clicking etc. I'm not sure exactly where some people want it placed, but where it is has never been an issue for me....at least no more than any other button anyway.

I can see the idea of an "are you sure?" message when hitting max bet going down like a lead balloon with most people.

Maybe I should have made it more clear. It is not the presence óf the button that I object to it is the double action of max-stake AND automatic spin all initiated by a single click so the user cannot reduce stake if it was clicked by mistake. However, as you have pointed out, this is not related to the OPs problem so I will say no more on the matter and leave it at that.

 

[cheekydancer]

I've just got an email from support where they have contradicted themselves;

The max bet rule is in place to avoid abuse of the bonus, not to prevent players winning, whether large or small. Without going into too much detail, there is a body of players that use bonuses to bet big with house money, in the hope of obtaining a large win on certain games, then decrease the bet sizes to complete the wagering requirement.

So they said the max bet rule is NOT there to prevent players winning. They then go on to say it is there to stop players winning big (as we all know).

I didn't win of my mistaken bet, not a penny. So the fundemental problem the rule is preventing, didn't happen.

 

[Mouche12]

I've just got an email from support where they have contradicted themselves;

The max bet rule is in place to avoid abuse of the bonus, not to prevent players winning, whether large or small. Without going into too much detail, there is a body of players that use bonuses to bet big with house money, in the hope of obtaining a large win on certain games, then decrease the bet sizes to complete the wagering requirement.

So they said the max bet rule is NOT there to prevent players winning. They then go on to say it is there to stop players winning big (as we all know).

I didn't win of my mistaken bet, not a penny. So the fundemental problem the rule is preventing, didn't happen.

Yes, they seem to be contradicting themselves.

Is it worthwile to seek legal assistance? Of course you agreed to all the T&Cs and you did make one single bet in excess of 20%, but in certain instances invoking a specific rule by the casino may be deemed unfair. I'd be interested to know what a lawyer has to say about this.

 

[cheekydancer]

I've done a bit of digging around and they appear to be based in Gibraltar.. Does that mean I'd have to go to Gibraltar to sue them? Couldn't a 'small claim' be done in England?

 

[IanO]

I've just got an email from support where they have contradicted themselves;

The max bet rule is in place to avoid abuse of the bonus, not to prevent players winning, whether large or small. Without going into too much detail, there is a body of players that use bonuses to bet big with house money, in the hope of obtaining a large win on certain games, then decrease the bet sizes to complete the wagering requirement.

So they said the max bet rule is NOT there to prevent players winning. They then go on to say it is there to stop players winning big (as we all know).

I didn't win of my mistaken bet, not a penny. So the fundemental problem the rule is preventing, didn't happen.

It does not seem that contradictory to me. The way I interpret it winning big is fine. Winning big through rule violations and 'bonus abuse' is not.

To be clear, I'm not accusing you of trying an AP method here .. only you can know that for sure... but I would say that every day people get arrested for 'attempted' crimes. The success or failure is not always a factor when rules are applied. As many before me have pointed out, you did violate a term and the site has acted accordingly. I understand why you would expect leniency and an exception to be made but sadly the casino is under no obligation to do so. A rule was broken, plain and simple.

We can hate the rule all day. We can disagree with the reaction of the casino. What we can't do is argue that the rule was not there and the OP did not agree to abide by it. I would expect any lawyer to tell you the same thing.

BTW... I read the posts but still dont see which game you were playing? Did I miss that, or have you not told us yet. Just curious.

 

[dunover]

The OP is clearly NOT an inexperienced newbie. The £1000 deposit tells us that. She goes on to mention a 'good holiday' with the potential £6.5k profit. A hard-core hi-roller gambler is the usual candidate for a 1k initial deposit. A couple of these 1k deposits can get you a good holiday......

My BS detector is not quite red, but hitting ORANGE for the following reasons:

1. Why haven't you discussed this properly with BF, if you have what do they say?
2. Why the reluctance to furnish us with details of the slot, the line bets etc?
3. Why has the story changed (when ChuChu and others pointed out that a 110 bet is a very odd amount) from being a 110 bet to "maybe be it was 120 I'm not sure"?
4. Why can't you tell us if BF are returning your deposit, which they should do if voiding your play, and will do as they are a good accredited site?

I can also say that it appears to be your intention to elicit support on this thread, which you can then go on to use in your dealings with Betfred along the lines of "look how many people on CM think it's unfair/feel sorry for me/suggest you pay me X% of my 6.5k".

Sorry, but you've shot yourself in the foot, because that leaves Betfred in a position whereby in future in similar circumstances a player could use this thread and say "yes, but so-and-so did the same as me and got paid, check out this CM thread of June 19 2013".

You can't PAB as BF have done nothing wrong, and others have pointed out allowing 20% of your bonus to be staked at once is quite generous. You also mention playing certain lines and changing line bets, again that is not something a newbie usually does; they choose the overall stake they want to play, and press 'start'. Until you specifically and clearly answer the above questions, I don't think you are being entirely straight with us, and we are not mugs on here - we will come down like a ton of hot s**t on rogue/dodgy casinos, but will not all fall into the support line automatically and unquestioningly when somebody who has clearly broken terms tries to garner sympathy for their cause against an accredited site.

You will also no doubt have seen the words 'predatory/unfair/bad button layout' in previous replies. This is nonsense and not relevant to your story. Whether the spin won or not is IRRELEVANT. Try and get that out of your thought process. Betfred have to be consistent for the reasons I wrote above. You will (if we have the full facts) get your deposit back. Take it and move on and learn from this.
Maybe put it towards a holiday and a box of Kleenex.

 

[irmster]

I've done a bit of digging around and they appear to be based in Gibraltar.. Does that mean I'd have to go to Gibraltar to sue them? Couldn't a 'small claim' be done in England?

Although I stated earlier that I hoped this would be sorted out, you can clearly forget all talk of suing them or small claims court. You broke the casino's T&Cs - unless they make an exception for you, which seems unlikely, you'll just have to live with it.

 

[DepositSpinLose]

still

 

[spoton]

Hopefully the rep will sort this out. If its just about accidental bet, they should do an exception, especially if a bigger part of the WR were completed.

 

[dunover]

Hopefully the rep will sort this out. If its just about accidental bet, they should do an exception, especially if a bigger part of the WR were completed.

That's just it - why should they do an 'exception' which will set a precedent?

I can't believe the extent of this thread, which suggests in its title that somehow BF are acting up.

They aren't.

 

[spoton]

That's just it - why should they do an 'exception' which will set a precedent?

I can't believe the extent of this thread, which suggests in its title that somehow BF are acting up.

They aren't.

Cause they should excuse a customer for doing a single honest mistake if that is the case. It will set a precedent yes, for being a company that manages to think a bit out of the box instead of confiscating money over a low shoe for mistakes which they can prevent if they spend a bit of resources on it.

In the same manner i would be able to excuse the casino if their servers or so crashed, delaying their payouts for a day or two. I wouldn't demand them to be rogued cause of that.

Reminds me of a airplane company here, refusing a passenger water or food for a 12 hour flight, as her credit card didnt work abroad, and they didnt take cash. I guess it was mentioned in their terms, but thankfully after some media coverage, they changed their terms.

 

[dunover]

I've done a bit of digging around and they appear to be based in Gibraltar.. Does that mean I'd have to go to Gibraltar to sue them? Couldn't a 'small claim' be done in England?

Oh please! Less of the barrack-room stuff and more facts. You had an agreement. You broke it. And you think to sue them?

This thread is getting farcical.

ALL you had to do was politely e-mail them:

'Dear Betfred,

As you are aware I have recently attempted a withdrawal of 7.5k. During the process of meeting the wagering requirement, I accidentally had one single spin which slightly exceeded the allowed 20%, in my case £100 bets. I don't believe this has affected the integrity of our contract regarding this bonus, and am happy to accept a small pro-rata reduction in pay out that this spin may be deemed by yourselves to effect. Please check my play logs and accept that as a new customer this version of events is accurate.
I look forward to your analysis of this account and hope you respond in good faith.

Regards A. Punter'

Instead you have come on the premier online casino forum and insinuated in your thread title they are wilfully not paying a legitimate win, threatening courts and listening to a lot of nonsense.

If you were BetFred, how do you think YOU would respond now???

 

[cheekydancer]

I did politely email them and say that, but they weren't having any of it. I am not sure why you have so much anger towards me.

I mentioned the courts as I am sure judges look beyond Terms and Conditions and look at what is fair and what the terms were intended for.

Also, I think the thread title accurately describes the issue. In what way is it misleading?

 

[dunover]

I did politely email them and say that, but they weren't having any of it. I am not sure why you have so much anger towards me.

I mentioned the courts as I am sure judges look beyond Terms and Conditions and look at what is fair and what the terms were intended for.

Also, I think the thread title accurately describes the issue. In what way is it misleading?

Because it insinuates they are unreasonable - maybe 'Betfred Not Paying Win After I Breached Terms and Conditions' ?

Anyway, less semantics and more facts - why, after many posts and 6 pages of this thread, have you not given straight answers as follows:

Especially 3 and 4 if you please...

1. Why haven't you discussed this properly with BF, if you have what do they say?
2. Why the reluctance to furnish us with details of the slot, the line bets etc?
3. Why has the story changed (when ChuChu and others pointed out that a 110 bet is a very odd amount) from being a 110 bet to "maybe be it was 120 I'm not sure"?
4. Why can't you tell us if BF are returning your deposit, which they should do if voiding your play, and will do as they are a good accredited site?

 

[cheekydancer]

1. Why haven't you discussed this properly with BF, if you have what do they say?
I have. They won't budge.

2. Why the reluctance to furnish us with details of the slot, the line bets etc?
No one asked me. Bonus Bears.

3. Why has the story changed (when ChuChu and others pointed out that a 110 bet is a very odd amount) from being a 110 bet to "maybe be it was 120 I'm not sure"?
As I said, I was mistaken. It was around 110-120. Whatever bet Bonus Bears could produce. Think it might have been 112.50. I didn't login and find out the exact amount as I didn't think the exact amount was that relevant.

4. Why can't you tell us if BF are returning your deposit, which they should do if voiding your play, and will do as they are a good accredited site?[/QUOTE]
No one asked. They have said I can have my deposit back.

 

[dunover]

1. Why haven't you discussed this properly with BF, if you have what do they say?
I have. They won't budge.

2. Why the reluctance to furnish us with details of the slot, the line bets etc?
No one asked me. Bonus Bears.

3. Why has the story changed (when ChuChu and others pointed out that a 110 bet is a very odd amount) from being a 110 bet to "maybe be it was 120 I'm not sure"?
As I said, I was mistaken. It was around 110-120. Whatever bet Bonus Bears could produce. Think it might have been 112.50. I didn't login and find out the exact amount as I didn't think the exact amount was that relevant.

4. Why can't you tell us if BF are returning your deposit, which they should do if voiding your play, and will do as they are a good accredited site?
No one asked. They have said I can have my deposit back.

Now my BS-Detector is RED

You haven't said whether Betfred are voiding your play due to a breach of the bonus terms, and refunding your deposit only. In that case, no reason for tears, you are back to square one and can chuck the grand away somewhere else where they offer you 50% + bonus. POST#2 (Me) URL below:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...g-£7-5k-win-due-to-single-mistaken-bet.57501/

So first you need to tell us which slot it is and then let members who have access to Playtech software air their views. POST#26 (ChuChu) URL below:


https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...g-£7-5k-win-due-to-single-mistaken-bet.57501/

 

[cheekydancer]

Ok I am making this all up.

Wow, only came on here to ask peoples opinion, didn't think I'd get called a bullshitter.