Betfred complaint - Monthly deposit limit issue

[tomaso]

New to this forum and seeking advice, please no judgement. I set a monthly deposit limit to my Betfred account (i.e. £3950) on 29/12/2023 which I reached some times and the bookie been operating on a 30 day rolling deposit limit, I understand this means if I made first deposit 7th day of month and would reach limit on 28th of moth, I would have to wait until 7th of next month to deposit again, not linked to any calendar dates. I could go on details about the bookie not worrying about me reaching limit for 6 months in a row, chasing loses, increasing stakes of bets, etc.

Last month, following an upgrade on their website, I reached my monthly limit by 27/2/2024 and, as usual, I tried to deposit again, it had always failed in the past, but it worked this time. So, I went on chasing loses and deposited £3900 more in 3 days so just in the 25 day rolling period between 7/2/2024 to 2/3/2024 I was able to deposit and gamble away almost twice my monthly deposit limit, i.e. £7650. Despite been at fault for my own issues, my understanding is that Betfred should not allow me to go over my monthly deposit limit in any 30 day rolling period.

I have escalated to Betfred, their safer gambling team are saying that my monthly limit resets every 30 days meaning that it's actually fine that I was able to deposit £7650 in 24 consecutive days despite having a £3950 deposit limit per month, they say it's fine as that 30 day rolling period reseted on 27/2 so I was able to club allowance for two periods in shorter time.

I believe this is not right and they should have never allowed me to deposit more than my monthly limit in any 30 day rolling period, regardless of the calendar days involved. Am I wrong on this?

Appreciate any advice you can offer or guidance.

 

[pekka55]

That's on you. Would you have given any winnings back if you won? Fuck no.

 

[goatwack]

I've always found Deposit Limits to be badly implemented at certain casinos, and simply lacking in any meaningful 'Responsible Gambling' way.

They're bare bones at best, and soon enough, the player realizes that they serve a very limited purpose, that they're not overly reliable, and that the onus to regulate their gambling budget falls right back to them...

With that said, it's also not uncommon for gamblers to point the finger at casinos, or simply use these creaky systems to their advantage, as an older thread seems to elucidate upon!

Betfred deposit limit loophole - Casinomeister Forum

 

[jasonuk]

Unfortunately your assumption of the limits differs from what the rules actually are - the

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stipulate that the player should be able to set limits for a period of 24 hours, 7 days or month. However, it does not appear to stipulate when that period starts - so some providers will do calendar month, some will do monthly from account creation, and some will do rolling 30-31 day periods.

If the limit is not rolling, then as you've discovered it will reset on the next scheduled date regardless of what you have or haven't done - so it is theoretically possible to deposit twice as much in quick succession (shortly before and short after the limit).

It would be nice if sites were more aligned on this stuff - I've seen all three types on the sites I play so there's clearly no consensus by the industry.

Understandably there will be concerns about problem gambling if you are constantly hitting the limits, and that is something you should consider and possibly seek advice on. PSA aside, you could consider a weekly limit (dividing your monthly limit by 4.3) and thus in that scenario the absolute maximum you can wager in any given 30 day period is 5 weekly periods (116% of your intended monthly limit).

 

[tomaso]

Thanks everyone. @jasonuk, appreciate the feedback. I found their feedback really sketchy, missquoting amounts, period of time and stating they apply deposit limits in a 30 days rolling period. So, what would be the position if the site had confirmed the limit is applied in a 30 days rolling period format? I mean confirmed over email from customer service and also over the phone.

However, later on they indicated that 30 day rolling period to be reset on the 30th day anniversary of the date that deposit limit was set initially - which doesn't seem a 30 day rolling period to me but a 30 calendar days period. So I'm really confused and cannot find anywhere in their terms which they are claiming should apply here. 30 days rolling shouldn't allow to go over the limit in 25 consecutive days is my argument.

 

[L&L-Jan]

Last month, following an upgrade on their website, I reached my monthly limit by 27/2/2024 and, as usual, I tried to deposit again, it had always failed in the past, but it worked this time. So, I went on chasing loses and deposited £3900 more in 3 days so just in the 25 day rolling period between 7/2/2024 to 2/3/2024 I was able to deposit and gamble away almost twice my monthly deposit limit, i.e. £7650.

But why try the above if you know you reached your limit? And after you've managed (and lost obviously) raise this question?

 

[tomaso]

As difficult as you may find to understand it, sometimes it's not possible to control the impulse of chasing loses while gambling and deposit more, that's the reason deposit limits are made available, in order to limit harm for individuals, like myself, who might not be able to control themselves.

 

[dealer wins]

Just self exclude for March, save the £3950 and you are back to your loss limit, then you can spunk away again from April onwards without your annual budget being busted!

 

[jasonuk]

Thanks everyone. @jasonuk, appreciate the feedback. I found their feedback really sketchy, missquoting amounts, period of time and stating they apply deposit limits in a 30 days rolling period. So, what would be the position if the site had confirmed the limit is applied in a 30 days rolling period format? I mean confirmed over email from customer service and also over the phone.

However, later on they indicated that 30 day rolling period to be reset on the 30th day anniversary of the date that deposit limit was set initially - which doesn't seem a 30 day rolling period to me but a 30 calendar days period. So I'm really confused and cannot find anywhere in their terms which they are claiming should apply here. 30 days rolling shouldn't allow to go over the limit in 25 consecutive days is my argument.

If somewhere legally binding (such as the terms and conditions) explicitly said 30 days rolling then you might have more of an argument - but it doesn't. The T&Cs barely touch it at all, making just three references to responsible gambling (or "safer gambling" as they call it) and all three link to the safer gambling portal which similarly glosses over the distinction.

For clarity, it is unlikely that customer service agents would meet this standard.

I appreciate it is frustrating - and ideally it should be crystal clear and in this case isn't, but that doesn't necessarily make the operator liable. As mentioned, the regulations only state that there has to be a 30 day period - as long as they can prove that to you and/or the regulator then they are compliant with the regulations.

It is an expensive lesson to learn, but ultimately one that falls on your shoulders - the tools are there to assist, they aren't going to be a failsafe covering all scenarios. If it is getting too much then either tighten the limits, or

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. You always have the option to escalate it as a complaint with Betfred, but I suspect you would be on a hiding to nothing.

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

As others have pointed out, there are plenty of different ways deposit limits can be implemented. We went with the calendar month option as it’s clear to the player when it resets. If it was a rolling month then the deposit availability would come back based on what you’d deposited the previous month. E.g. you have a £100 limit set on 15th Jan, deposit and lose £50, play again on the 18th and deposit £50, you’d get another £50 allowance on 15th Feb and another on 18th. Would be carnage.

There’s also one larger operator who recently wrote to their players to say they had “improved their deposit limits functionality” (it might not be the right phrase) and now the deposit limits I’d set would actually become NET deposit limits. That’s quite a difference.

It’s probably because we have both been in the industry so long but having dealt/read about/experienced this kind of thing several times over the years unfortunately what usually happens is the player thinks they can get a freebie. Hence @L&L-Jan ’squestion about why you even tried. Im not suggesting the OP did, but some players would see this as “somethings broke here; if I play and lose I’ll get a refund”.

If their system is set up on fixed months and that’s defined somewhere, I’d say you haven’t got a chance of a refund despite what a CS member has said.

Out of interest; was the limit set by you, or the casino? If the latter, did you have to prove you could afford that high of a deposit limit?

Cheers,
Mark

 

[tomaso]

Thanks Mark and All for the comments.

In terms of affordability, I had to provide proof of earnings after depositing (and mostly losing) over 9500 back in july 2023 during the first month of account open. I gave P60 from year prior and they gave 3000 monthly limit.
In august I did 2 raises of that limit to 3500 first and 3750 later. Last raise was in december to 3950.

I’m certain their limit been working on a 30 day rolling period until last month, I would have to wait to deposit day/time I had done 30 days prior to top up. After site upgrade last month, behaviour changed and I was able to deposit when before I wasn’t, but would need to prove this is the case as implementation details not in T&Cs so seems a tough one.

I’ve been hitting deposit limit every month since july, increasing it 3 times as shared, chasing loses, depositing 10 times a day, increasing stakes,.. all my fault, not looking for sympaty here, been on this long enough. last time they called or sent an email to me was in july 2023, there is no such thing as kyc or duty of care.

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

Thanks Mark and All for the comments.

In terms of affordability, I had to provide proof of earnings after depositing (and mostly losing) over 9500 back in july 2023 during the first month of account open. I gave P60 from year prior and they gave 3000 monthly limit.
In august I did 2 raises of that limit to 3500 first and 3750 later. Last raise was in december to 3950.

I’m certain their limit been working on a 30 day rolling period until last month, I would have to wait to deposit day/time I had done 30 days prior to top up. After site upgrade last month, behaviour changed and I was able to deposit when before I wasn’t, but would need to prove this is the case as implementation details not in T&Cs so seems a tough one.

I’ve been hitting deposit limit every month since july, increasing it 3 times as shared, chasing loses, depositing 10 times a day, increasing stakes,.. all my fault, not looking for sympaty here, been on this long enough. last time they called or sent an email to me was in july 2023, there is no such thing as kyc or duty of care.

I appreciate the reply buddy. Best of luck with your complaint.

 

[jasonuk]

If it was a rolling month then the deposit availability would come back based on what you’d deposited the previous month. E.g. you have a £100 limit set on 15th Jan, deposit and lose £50, play again on the 18th and deposit £50, you’d get another £50 allowance on 15th Feb and another on 18th. Would be carnage.

... and what's more confusing than a gross rolling deposit limit? That's right, a net rolling deposit limit!

So one day you can have £100 of your limit left, then the next day it's £20 because a withdrawal dropped out of the equation. It would be nice if there were tools to explain that better, but I would expect pushback because there's an element of "inducement to gamble" (e.g. deposit now - because you can't next week!). On the sites that utilise a net rolling deposit limit, I tend to pull the banking history and quickly check the numbers myself, that way I have the full picture at all times.

There’s also one larger operator who recently wrote to their players to say they had “improved their deposit limits functionality” (it might not be the right phrase) and now the deposit limits I’d set would actually become NET deposit limits. That’s quite a difference.

I think that's where the industry as a whole does itself no favours - where bad or problematic things are promoted as "improved" or "enhanced" (or "very small tweaks" a favourite of WH). I know they're not going to be fully transparent with players (and most players wouldn't care anyway) but at least be professional about it.

 

[tomaso]

Short update and query: complaint been escalated and management reviewing activity, 8 weeks response time,...

A small ask as my account been blocked during the process and they don't allow log in, I have full record of transactions so that's not issue, but I would like to check the wording they use (if any) in the 'Safer gambling' website section where you enter your monthly deposit limit - is there any betfred user that could help share a screenshot of that page? I'd like to confirm if 30 day rolling is detailed there.

tomaso

 

[jasonuk]

As mentioned before, it doesn't... they refer to periods of time only.

From the safer gambling page (public):

Deposit Limits

Research shows that the risk of problem gambling may be reduced if customers decide in advance how much money they want to commit to play. We openly encourage you to set a deposit limit to manage the amount of money that you can deposit into your account. Limits can be set for a 24 hour, 7 day or 30 day period and cannot be overridden.

You can decrease your deposit limits at any time and this will be applied immediately.

Before increasing your deposit limits carefully consider if you can afford to do so. Never decide to increase your limit because you have lost money and think that you will win it back by gambling more. If you wish to increase a limit you will need to wait 24 hours before we action your request and then return to our site to confirm that you still want to increase it.

You can set, amend and confirm your deposit limits in the safer gambling Controls section of Members by choosing Deposit Limits.

From the deposit limits page (authenticated):

Do you have a budget? Do you want a way to stay in control?

Set a deposit limit to control the amount you can spend on Betfred in a specified period of time. Your deposit limit will become active instantly.

If you would like to change your existing deposit limit certain time delays may be applicable. If you would like to make your deposit limits smaller the changed limit will be activated instantly. We are currently upgrading the Betfred platform. During this time the following services are temporarily unavailable: increasing a deposit limit, removing a deposit limit. We apologise for any inconvenience caused.