Banned from Casino group

[mukhj]

Hi guys,

I had registered with 4 casinos and had deposited £400 on one of the Casino groups:-

Aztec
challenge
casino kingdom
strike it lucky

After I had submitted a withdrawal request for £328, I was asked to submit docs (notarised) which I did promptly (notarised by a Solicitor in my company) and sent them the docs. They have come back after a couple of days with the following message:-


I am all confused and amazed as this was supposedly a good group!!!!!

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jaideep
----------------------


Hi Jaideep



All your accounts have been closed permanently and we will not be able to reopen them.



We have sent the funds back to the purchasing cards.



Please note that you will not be able to play further on our Casinos network.



Kind regards



Ben

Risk Management

 

[KasinoKing]

I am all confused and amazed as this was supposedly a good group!!!!!

Who told you that!
Shame you didn't find this forum earlier, then you would have know that Casino Rewards are far from what is considered here to be a "good group".

Anyway, they are not rogue so you can ask Casinomeister to look into your problem for you via the Pitch-A-Bitch service:
First please send the casino representative a Private Message about your problem by following this link: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

After giving them a reasonable amount of time, if they do not put things right to your satisfaction, you can Pitch-A-Bitch.
This is CasinoMeister's FREE service to help players with problems at non-rogue casinos.
To submit your PAB, click here: Pitch-A-Bitch
Be sure to read ALL the terms for submitting a PAB, including the Frequently Asked Questions here: PAB FAQs

One word of warning though - if you are trying to scam or de-fraud the casinos in any way, you will get found out and will be banned from the forum.

Welcome & good luck!
KK

 

[mukhj]

Thanks for your response mate.

I was completely duped!!! All my docs are genuine and valid and I play on casinos as well (Williamhill, Bet365, et.al.) where they have been approved on a number of occasions.

I have sent a message to their representative and am still waiting for a reply.

I shall follow your advice and raise a grievance via PAB.

Thanks,

Jaideep

 

[maxd]

Hi, Max Drayman here. I'm the PAB guy here at Casinomeister, I look forward to receiving your PAB so we can look into this for you.

FYI I have removed the "Rogue" prefix since there is, as yet, no evidence of such. If your PAB turns up evidence to support this then I'll be happy to restore the prefix.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It may be the rapid registration of 4 accounts, making them think you are only going to go through the entire group playing the free chips and welcome bonuses. They would probably have flagged this before you made the first deposit, hopefully stopping you in your tracks.

It would have been best to register just the one account, play the bonus, and then play a little more. There is a term that states you must make a second purchase before moving on to the next casino and it's welcome bonus. Their systems seem pretty strict at enforcing this.

If you are after large bonuses, they are the wrong group in any case. You want to take a look at GNUF/Betway, or the other Palace Group casinos. The more you play, the bigger the regular offers become. Play enough, and you will be invited to the VIP level, where the bonuses go as high as 100% up to £500 4 times a month. You do need to play a fair bit past WR in order to maintain this status, they are not that stupid.

32Red also offer a small daily bonus using a lobby based promotion. The welcome bonus is available on any one of their 4 sister casinos, no point joining all 4 hoping to claim 4 welcome bonuses.

If you like wagering competitions, Red Flush/La Vida are running the "biggest ever" Slot Survivor from the 20th August.

 

[maphesto]

You can also send Renee, their rep here, a message.

She is not active in this forum but she sometimes takes care of player issues. She was online today which means that she is active here in some way.

 

[mukhj]

Hi Max - thanks for your comments. I shall put a grievance soon via PAB.

I have sent a message to the Casino Rep to see if they come up with something.

Will let you know.

 

[mukhj]

Hi,

Thanks for your comments. I had opted out of Bonus from each of the Casinos.

won 38 pounds on 3 and lost 32 on one

So was absolutely at a loss what the problem was - played with my money and put in a request for withdrawal on 3 Casinos (with net winnings = £38) - shouldn't have caused any issues!!

But you do have a fair point - I did register with them within a span of a couple of days.

Still confused

 

[mukhj]

thanks mate - I have already sent a message; still waiting for her reply. Will keep the forum posted.

 

[Nifty29]

I'll go out on a limb here by saying that if they closed your accounts permanently and there were NO bonuses involved, then the issue is more likely to be multiple accounts or other accounts in the family/household.

Either way, I don't think we have been given all the information.

In my experience, if it doesn't sound right, it isn't.

 

[musclemx]

the last year i play in zodiac casino i deposit 1 for play whit 20 is the promotion that they have .. ahmm i won 187 190 eur ahmm i request and they only send me 20 eur to me moneybookers account and the rest not ,why i take others promotions etc . they close me account and only i receive 20 never play here again casinorewards not have good popularity ...

 

[chuchu59]

Hi,

Thanks for your comments. I had opted out of Bonus from each of the Casinos.

won 38 pounds on 3 and lost 32 on one

So was absolutely at a loss what the problem was - played with my money and put in a request for withdrawal on 3 Casinos (with net winnings = £38) - shouldn't have caused any issues!!

But you do have a fair point - I did register with them within a span of a couple of days.

Still confused

I am confused as well. Though you have the liberty to play at different casinos as you wish especially if you feel luck has deserted you at some of them it seems strange that you decided to register and play at casinos of the same group which led them to believe you had other motives. They are all MG casinos and have the same games so I am scratching my head as to why you opened a series of accounts one after another in quick succession.

 

[Nifty29]

the last year i play in zodiac casino i deposit 1 for play whit 20 is the promotion that they have .. ahmm i won 187 190 eur ahmm i request and they only send me 20 eur to me moneybookers account and the rest not ,why i take others promotions etc . they close me account and only i receive 20 never play here again casinorewards not have good popularity ...

You seem to have issues at just about every casino you play.

Can't guess why that might be

I agree with Chu. Why open all those different accounts on the same software? Unless you were running them simultaneously at the live blackjack table etc.

It also seems VERY odd that you deposited $400 and withdrew $328.....was your usual laundry lady on vacation?

 

[dionysus]

was your usual laundry lady on vacation?

 

[Nifty29]

Hi,

Thanks for your comments. I had opted out of Bonus from each of the Casinos.

won 38 pounds on 3 and lost 32 on one

So was absolutely at a loss what the problem was - played with my money and put in a request for withdrawal on 3 Casinos (with net winnings = £38) - shouldn't have caused any issues!!

But you do have a fair point - I did register with them within a span of a couple of days.

Still confused

Where does $328 withdrawal fit in? Doesn't add up.

Something dodgy going on here I can smell it.

 

[mukhj]

Well I had one account on each Casino in the group and nobody else in my family goes anywhere near Casinos.

This is the latest in this saga. I have received the following message from the Casino rep here:-


Hi Jaideep

The casinos do specify a term where it can refuse access of any person. They have chosen to enforce this rule with you.
Unfortunately there is nothing I can do as the decision is at the discretion of the casino.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Casino Terms and Conditions
vii. Lucky Emperor Casino reserves the right to refuse access to the Casino of any person. Lucky Emperor Casino also reserves the right to withhold any withdrawal they suspect are in anyway linked to fraudulent activity.

You have been refunded your entire deposit amounts, which are more than what you had planned to withdraw, so I would suggest to perhaps find another casino to play at.
Sorry I couldn't help.

Cheers
Renee

 

[mukhj]

No sure why it would be dodgy to submit a withdrawal as and when I feel like. It's very simple:-

I deposited £100 each on 4 Casinos. I won a total of £28 on 3 Casinos and hence put in a request for £328 (£28 winnings + £300 pounds deposit).

Why do you smell a rat here?

With regards to having multiple accounts on 4 casinos in the group - didn't find anything in their T&C to say otherwise. May be I am being naive but my point here is if I am depositing my own money and am opting out of their BONUS and making a small profit of £28 (@9 approx per Casino), why does that trigger suspicion???????????

Can you please specify?

 

[mukhj]

You seem to have issues at just about every casino you play.


Mate - your comments are way out of line!!!! How do you know this????

I play on many casinos and have never been in trouble because I play with my own money without availing their bonuses. I also promptly submit docs as per requirements. I always play by the rules and hence I was confused when I was pulled.

You are obviously at liberty to attack me - not sure what you would gain???

I was looking for help and constructive feedback and to be honest I have got very good response from most of the members. But there is something dodgy going on with you!!!! Are you a member of this Casino group???

 

[Nifty29]

No sure why it would be dodgy to submit a withdrawal as and when I feel like. It's very simple:-

I deposited £100 each on 4 Casinos. I won a total of £28 on 3 Casinos and hence put in a request for £328 (£28 winnings + £300 pounds deposit).

Why do you smell a rat here?

With regards to having multiple accounts on 4 casinos in the group - didn't find anything in their T&C to say otherwise. May be I am being naive but my point here is if I am depositing my own money and am opting out of their BONUS and making a small profit of £28 (@9 approx per Casino), why does that trigger suspicion???????????

Can you please specify?

Renee says your accounts were linked to fraudulent activity. I'm sure you know what "fraudulent" means.

In any case, no casino is going to want you if you're going to deposit $300 and cashout with $28 profit every time. It's not worth their time, and that's their choice.

However, back to what Renee said, it's related to fraud, so they obviously have evidence of such.

My suggestion is for you to Pitch A Bitch, so that Max can see what the casino has and we will know how innocent you are. If it was just a case of the casino not wanting you, they would have paid your withdrawal and closed your accounts.....but since they voided the withdrawal and refunded your deposits, it's obviously something more sinister.

 

[Nifty29]

You seem to have issues at just about every casino you play.


Mate - your comments are way out of line!!!! How do you know this????

I play on many casinos and have never been in trouble because I play with my own money without availing their bonuses. I also promptly submit docs as per requirements. I always play by the rules and hence I was confused when I was pulled.

You are obviously at liberty to attack me - not sure what you would gain???

I was looking for help and constructive feedback and to be honest I have got very good response from most of the members. But there is something dodgy going on with you!!!! Are you a member of this Casino group???

I was not referring to you. Read the quote I included....it was from musclemx.

It remains to be seen as to which of us "has something dodgy going on". I'll take bets now peeps.

 

[mukhj]

Indeed - I am intrigued. Didn't know I was committing a fraud by depositing my money and submitting a withdrawal request. Also, the docs that I had submitted (Passport, Utility bill and CC copies) were notarised by a solicitor who works in my company. This is really insulting and humiliating - if they want to close the accounts for the fact that the winnings were small, then they should have given a valid reason.

Anyway, I have submitted a grievance via PAB - let's see what happens.

 

[mukhj]

It remains to be seen as to which of us "has something dodgy going on". I'll take bets now peeps.[/QUOTE]

Apologies mate I missed that bit. Thanks for pointing that out.

You must be damn sure that I have done something dodgy!!!

Must be good for you up there

 

[Nifty29]

Indeed - I am intrigued. Didn't know I was committing a fraud by depositing my money and submitting a withdrawal request. Also, the docs that I had submitted (Passport, Utility bill and CC copies) were notarised by a solicitor who works in my company. This is really insulting and humiliating - if they want to close the accounts for the fact that the winnings were small, then they should have given a valid reason.

Anyway, I have submitted a grievance via PAB - let's see what happens.

If you have a PAB in progress, you should not be posting about the issue. Make sure you read the rules which are quite explicit.

 

[maxd]

Anyway, I have submitted a grievance via PAB ....

Indeed you have. And one of the things we make clear is that people __must__ read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ wherein it says in item 3.10 "What are my responsibilities once the PAB is submitted?":

don't sabotage your PAB: ... don't post about your issue on the forums: wait until the PAB process has ended before you discuss it on the forums.

Yet I see you continue to post. Please explain.

 

[mukhj]

Indeed you have. And one of the things we make clear is that people __must__ read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ wherein it says in item 3.10 "What are my responsibilities once the PAB is submitted?":


Yet I see you continue to post. Please explain.

apologies mate - didn't read that bit. Will not post until my PAB is decided

 

[dionysus]

You can post, just not about this one topic

 

[chuchu59]

I was not referring to you. Read the quote I included....it was from musclemx.

It remains to be seen as to which of us "has something dodgy going on". I'll take bets now peeps.

Despite the daredevil in me I dont dare take you on this time.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Renee says your accounts were linked to fraudulent activity. I'm sure you know what "fraudulent" means.

In any case, no casino is going to want you if you're going to deposit $300 and cashout with $28 profit every time. It's not worth their time, and that's their choice.

However, back to what Renee said, it's related to fraud, so they obviously have evidence of such.

My suggestion is for you to Pitch A Bitch, so that Max can see what the casino has and we will know how innocent you are. If it was just a case of the casino not wanting you, they would have paid your withdrawal and closed your accounts.....but since they voided the withdrawal and refunded your deposits, it's obviously something more sinister.

Where?

Renee just says they decided not to allow the OP to continue playing. It could be for many reasons, and often a player that would appear to offer little prospect of profit for the casino will be kicked out. The pattern of play, 4 accounts, small deposits and withdrawals, is going to cost the casino more to support than the £50 odd they made on this opening play. Conservative play on a game such as blackjack shows them this is a player unlikely to let rip on the slots and produce a much larger profit. Opting out of bonuses from the outset also shows them they have a player immune to their marketing tactics designed to draw in larger deposits and promote play on slots.

A while back, and before they went under, Purple Lounge were kicking out players because they played mostly video poker, and only the best variants such as All Aces. This had nothing to do with fraud, and all to do with the wafer thin house edge that meant over the long term it cost more to support the account than they made on the play.

Since the OP wants to play live Blackjack, there are plenty of other Microgaming casinos out there offering it. If they want more than one game open at a time, choose casinos from different groups. Poker players have more than one table open at a time, and this is perfectly acceptable. I have never heard of any rule that says one can't have more than one MGS casino client running at the same time, although if they are all the same group, the operator will notice, and perhaps wonder why.

If the documents are fake, then NO casino will accept them, and the OP will keep on hitting this problem.

 

[corrie1946]

mukhj , you must read the CR group TC's first.:notworthy
You probably missed this one:

Deposit as much as you want please, but when it comes to any withdrawal be ensured we will try anything to avoid paying.

 

[Nifty29]

Where?

Renee just says they decided not to allow the OP to continue playing. It could be for many reasons, and often a player that would appear to offer little prospect of profit for the casino will be kicked out. The pattern of play, 4 accounts, small deposits and withdrawals, is going to cost the casino more to support than the £50 odd they made on this opening play. Conservative play on a game such as blackjack shows them this is a player unlikely to let rip on the slots and produce a much larger profit. Opting out of bonuses from the outset also shows them they have a player immune to their marketing tactics designed to draw in larger deposits and promote play on slots.

A while back, and before they went under, Purple Lounge were kicking out players because they played mostly video poker, and only the best variants such as All Aces. This had nothing to do with fraud, and all to do with the wafer thin house edge that meant over the long term it cost more to support the account than they made on the play.

Since the OP wants to play live Blackjack, there are plenty of other Microgaming casinos out there offering it. If they want more than one game open at a time, choose casinos from different groups. Poker players have more than one table open at a time, and this is perfectly acceptable. I have never heard of any rule that says one can't have more than one MGS casino client running at the same time, although if they are all the same group, the operator will notice, and perhaps wonder why.

If the documents are fake, then NO casino will accept them, and the OP will keep on hitting this problem.

Put your glasses on and look at the term she quoted. It stated winnings will confiscated in cases of fraud, and since they confiscated his winnings.......well I'm sure I don't need 500 words to explain that one.

Perhaps Renee will clarify it further, but it seems pretty clear to me.

It seems particularly odd that anyone would want to cash out with a $9 profit from a $100 three times. My first reaction would be to suspect money laundering, as depending on the deposit and withdrawal methods, the player could well end up with a loss.

No, there's something not right about all of this.

 

[maphesto]

If I remember correctly the Casino Reward casinos do have a strange system with bonuses where you can claim the bonus at another casino account or when you want it.

If this is the case, the op may have made his withdrawals without even used the bonuses. Then he goes to the "reward page" and claims his "free chips" without a maxcashout. It's hard to describe but I have read this somewhere. I can't remember where exactly, but if Casino Rewards see this, they have every right to close the accounts.

To the op, IF THIS IS NOT THE CASE you can have my apologize later.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Put your glasses on and look at the term she quoted. It stated winnings will confiscated in cases of fraud, and since they confiscated his winnings.......well I'm sure I don't need 500 words to explain that one.

Perhaps Renee will clarify it further, but it seems pretty clear to me.

It seems particularly odd that anyone would want to cash out with a $9 profit from a $100 three times. My first reaction would be to suspect money laundering, as depending on the deposit and withdrawal methods, the player could well end up with a loss.

No, there's something not right about all of this.

My glasses are on.

Hi Jaideep

The casinos do specify a term where it can refuse access of any person. They have chosen to enforce this rule with you.
Unfortunately there is nothing I can do as the decision is at the discretion of the casino.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Casino Terms and Conditions
vii. Lucky Emperor Casino reserves the right to refuse access to the Casino of any person. Lucky Emperor Casino also reserves the right to withhold any withdrawal they suspect are in anyway linked to fraudulent activity.

You have been refunded your entire deposit amounts, which are more than what you had planned to withdraw, so I would suggest to perhaps find another casino to play at.
Sorry I couldn't help.

Cheers
Renee

Renee quoted the "reserve the right to refuse access" term. This is not the same as kicking someone out for fraud. We have had cases before where casinos have kicked out "unprofitable" players using this kind of term, and Nicholas Johnson came on here and justified it's use in such cases. One of my objections at the time was that enforcing such a term would make a player look like he had been fraudulent, when he had simply not lost enough to satisfy the bean counters at the casino. The fact that you have interpreted this as proof that the OP is a fraud only proves my earlier point, which was that using this catch all "reserve the right to refuse admission" term without giving reasons risked libelling players caught by it.

No winnings were confiscated either, the casinos returned the deposits which amounted to MORE than the amount withdrawn. Presumably an ass covering exercise to prevent a dispute over confiscated winnings.

It's no different to being bonus banned just for being lucky. It can imply that "advantage play" was taking place, when in fact the win was pure luck. It's a libel by implication, but nowhere near as bad as being labeled a fraud.

You yourself said my wins are simply luck, and that I do not have any kind of "system" that increases my chances. Does this mean that I have been libeled by those casinos that ban me from bonuses after such a win as the ban suggests I HAVE been using a system that they feel violates the spirit of the bonuses offered?

I don't mind of course, feel free to libel away that I have developed this sure fire Microgaming fruity system. When I have been libeled enough, I will have players beating down my door to get their hands on said system, and it won't come cheap

 

[maxd]

apologies mate - didn't read that bit. Will not post until my PAB is decided

Yes, well, it seems there are other bits you didn't read either, namely section 3.1 regarding proper email addresses for contacting you regarding PAB issues:

... Using email addresses from Yahoo, AOL, ATT.net or Hotmail is not acceptable: these services often discard casino-related emails, the result being that you may or may not receive emails we send you. They are simply NOT RELIABLE for PAB communications. ....

... and section 1.2 regarding the circumstances under which we cannot accept your PAB issue:

There are a few things that would keep us from accepting your PAB:
...the crux of your PAB is "I want you to force them to let me play at their casino". Such issues are not within the scope of the PAB service: if they don't want you as a customer that's their decision, we suggest you take your business somewhere else.

(Ok, I confess, I just added that last bit to the FAQ. It's like Bill Maher says, "New Rule".)

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that you probably haven't read the FAQ at all, have you? Well, no worries, because I can't help you anyway.

The point of your PAB is that you want us to force them to accept you as a customer. That is not a service we provide and as such your issue is beyond the scope of the PAB process. Since they have returned your original deposits -- putting more back in your pocket than you would have had if they'd paid your WD request -- I'm going to call this DOA and closed. You are now free to post on this subject as you see fit.

 

[mukhj]

Mate - no matter how much you try to prove that I had indulged in fraudulent tactics, it will not take away the truth that I was banned from the casino because of reasons that are beyond my understanding.

If was a fraud then I am afraid I wouldn't be able to play on other casinos as well.

Anyway, I am not here to prove anything. I am innocent and have used my own money (not sure what you implied when you said that I might have been involved in money laundering!!!!). Well in that case mate I might hazard a guess and say that you are paid by the Casino group to look after their interests!!!

Some people!!!!!!!!

 

[mukhj]

Mate - that's fine by me. I can't force anybody to do this on my behalf as it's a free service.

But, my point wasn't to force anybody to let me play - my intention was to clear my name. I don't care if they wouldn't let me play on their casinos but calling me a fraud is way out of line when in reality I hadn't done anything fraudulent.

Not sure about others but I am a man of integrity and calling me a fraud when I haven't done anything wrong is in my opinion fraudulent and tantamounts to unethical Business practice.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Mate - that's fine by me. I can't force anybody to do this on my behalf as it's a free service.

But, my point wasn't to force anybody to let me play - my intention was to clear my name. I don't care if they wouldn't let me play on their casinos but calling me a fraud is way out of line when in reality I hadn't done anything fraudulent.

Not sure about others but I am a man of integrity and calling me a fraud when I haven't done anything wrong is in my opinion fraudulent and tantamounts to unethical Business practice.

They have acted in a manner that leads others to suspect you are a fraud, rather than calling you a fraud. Even if you did force them to take you back, they would give you a hard time every step of the way. They do not even deserve the time of day, let alone your deposits, because of the way you have been treated. They may be a large group, but there are still plenty of other places to play. Most have a better attitude towards players, and these are more deserving of your deposits.

Getting your documents verified up front is also wise, and it may reveal more about what is going on with Casino Rewards.

You could also try Kahnawake. Your complaint is not about not getting paid, the main scope of the PAB service here, but unfair treatment that has ended up tarnishing your reputation. Kahnawake can't make them take you back, nor can eCogra, but you may well get them to shed more light on why you were banned. Even if you get a more direct accusation of fraud, you at least have a reason.

The problem is that if you start out looking a bit suspicious, such as opening 4 accounts at once, there is little you can do to allay their nagging doubts whatever you are able to do to prove you are honest. It is much simpler for an operator to ban you than for them to try to judge whether you are really OK, or have managed to fool them.

Had you not withdrawn so quickly, I bet you would still have access to those accounts, with them being more than happy to take your deposits. This would have shown them that by having 4 accounts you are going to lose 4 times as fast, and they are hardly going to complain. By generating so much "churn" by withdrawing similar amounts to the deposits, they know that they are going to lose money on your accounts, even if you lose money to the casino. This is down to all the back office costs and processing fees associated with this pattern of play. They don't need you to be a fraud to get rid of you over this, just a "money pit" to keep on as a player.

When playing elsewhere, try to generate less "churn" by only withdrawing a worthwhile amount, or only when you have decided not to play again for a couple of days. This way, more of what you lose feeds into profit, and the casino will make money from you.

You could even ask in advance whether a casino will have you as a player that only wants to play the live Blackjack, and in a fairly cautious manner. Since you are not interested in bonuses, you could try the 4 casinos in the 32Red group.

Make sure that your details are consistent, and that you only deposit from methods that are in your name, and with billing address the same as your current address, that which you register with the casino. If other documents are still showing an earlier address, get them updated. In many cases, this is a legal requirement (driving license for example).

 

[Nifty29]

The guy was withdrawing three times with a $9 profit........$9!!

Sorry, but there is an angle to this and I think Casino Rewards know what it is having come across it before.

Sounds like it could be what maphesto said....would explain the tiny profit levels.

Perhaps you could give Renee permission to explain why you were no longer welcome as a customer? Oh, and I'm not your mate.

 

[mukhj]

The guy was withdrawing three times with a $9 profit........$9!!

Sorry, but there is an angle to this and I think Casino Rewards know what it is having come across it before.

Sounds like it could be what maphesto said....would explain the tiny profit levels.

Perhaps you could give Renee permission to explain why you were no longer welcome as a customer? Oh, and I'm not your mate.

Not everybody is stinking rich as you are Nifty29!!!!!

And I would be very happy indeed if Renee comes and lets everybody know the real reason (true reason and not any made up reason)!

Any why is withdrawing £9 fraudulent might I ask??????

You have got a twisted brain that's all I can say.


Look at this scenario

I deposit £100 and withdraw £109 - please explain to me why this would hint at
(a) money laundering
(b) fraudulent

Is there anything in their T&C that says I cannot withdraw a profit of £9???

You are indulging in character assassination from the word go without any proof and I haven't really said anything bad or hurtful!!!!

The funny thing is that you would rather trust the Casino than myself and that tells me something about you.

 

[naththo]

Hi,

I am sorry to disagree with you. What I read is that casino is absolutely correct that you were suspected of fraud. (Not confirmed suspected) They have found an unusual pattern you were doing with 4 of casino in the same group. And plus it may have also been bonus abused they were worried about if that happened, also there are other various reason why you got banned from them for indefinite period. Please understand that all casino have strict term and condition. Always read slowly and understand clearly on each term and condition. You were very lucky you have all money returned to you without a loss after they have you banned and return you all deposit you have deposited it. So no need to PAB or complain. There is no can do about and they have you banned indefinite period and they don't want you back again. They don't like you and defriend you. Its over. Move on and try somewhere else where you can join the casino but please follow term and condition very carefully and please at least do one account per casino group is better safe than sorry then you will never have any problem. The reason that bonus irritate me is 30 playthrough or more is very expensive play to me and I cannot afford that. I rather play with my own money and if I had any decent win I would withdraw straight away without bonus/without playthrough nonsense utterly rubbish!

Good luck with other casino hopefully won't happen again to you though!

Regard Nathan.

Edited: Forgot to say that stick to accredited casino also is better safe than sorry too!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi,

I am sorry to disagree with you. What I read is that casino is absolutely correct that you were suspected of fraud. (Not confirmed suspected) They have found an unusual pattern you were doing with 4 of casino in the same group. And plus it may have also been bonus abused they were worried about if that happened, also there are other various reason why you got banned from them for indefinite period. Please understand that all casino have strict term and condition. Always read slowly and understand clearly on each term and condition. You were very lucky you have all money returned to you without a loss after they have you banned and return you all deposit you have deposited it. So no need to PAB or complain. There is no can do about and they have you banned indefinite period and they don't want you back again. They don't like you and defriend you. Its over. Move on and try somewhere else where you can join the casino but please follow term and condition very carefully and please at least do one account per casino group is better safe than sorry then you will never have any problem. The reason that bonus irritate me is 30 playthrough or more is very expensive play to me and I cannot afford that. I rather play with my own money and if I had any decent win I would withdraw straight away without bonus/without playthrough nonsense utterly rubbish!

Good luck with other casino hopefully won't happen again to you though!

Regard Nathan.

Edited: Forgot to say that stick to accredited casino also is better safe than sorry too!

The OP didn't take any boni. I have accumulated 20+ accounts at Casino Rewards, and DO take the boni, as well as playing without.

I am sure it is the "churn". Depositing £100 and withdrawing £109 may not be against the terms, but behind the scenes the casino has to pay up to 10% each way, so have not lost £9, more like £30. If this is how the OP is going to continue, the casino can see them losing far more in fees than the player wins. Even if the OP lost £10 and withdrew £90, the casino still makes a loss.
They may prefer players to keep such small balances in the account overnight, or withdraw a meaningful amount after giving them plenty of action.

We don't actually know how much action was given, but if it was only 1 or 2 times the deposit, this would REALLY piss the casino off, and would lead to a ban. Ban now and give back all deposits for a slightly bigger loss, rather than have to spend even more time and money dealing with a dispute where they would have to produce some solid grounds for claiming the OP breached a term.

Moneylaundering is not an issue where withdrawals can be posted back to the same account the deposits came from, as is the case here.

 

[maxd]

Not sure about others but I am a man of integrity and calling me a fraud when I haven't done anything wrong is in my opinion fraudulent and tantamounts to unethical Business practice.

How nice for you. I recommend you grow a thicker skin and not take such things personally. At the very least you should realise that your hurt and outrage are going to get you exactly nowhere, at least insofar as the casinos go. Not to put too fine a point on it but you are pissing into the wind on this one and that's not going to turn out well.

Update: Further evidence has come in that you have been doing exactly the same thing -- deposit, bit of play, withdraw at a slight loss -- at other casinos. I'd say that Nifty has the right of it here: you're flushing cash through the casinos. That will make you persona non grata at any legitimate casino out there. You can expect a lot more more "insult and humiliation" if that's what your game is.

 

[Seventh777]

I deposit £100 and withdraw £109 - please explain to me why this would hint at
(a) money laundering

I will explain the fundamentals of money laundering, say for arguments sake your £100 is the result of tonight`s crack deals = dirty money, deposit at casino and withdraw same or above amount deposited = now squeaky clean money.

Laundering = cleaning something that is dirty.

 

[vinylweatherman]

How nice for you. I recommend you grow a thicker skin and not take such things personally. At the very least you should realise that your hurt and outrage are going to get you exactly nowhere, at least insofar as the casinos go. Not to put too fine a point on it but you are pissing into the wind on this one and that's not going to turn out well.

Update: Further evidence has come in that you have been doing exactly the same thing -- deposit, bit of play, withdraw at a slight loss -- at other casinos. I'd say that Nifty has the right of it here: you're flushing cash through the casinos. That will make you persona non grata at any legitimate casino out there. You can expect a lot more more "insult and humiliation" if that's what your game is.

This only works when the withdrawal is by means other than that used to deposit. Not much point doing it with credit cards in the UK now that they charge interest from day 1. There WAS a point a while ago. When credit cards treated gambling as purchases, you could get a cashback card that rewarded purchases. By depositing into casinos, and then withdrawing almost straight away, you could rack up the cashback rewards without actually spending money. It is also possible to do the same with Neteller every time they do one of their promos for 1% cashback on all deposits.

CR put the money back on the cards, therefore no laundering possible. This is also why casinos always insist on paying back to the method of deposit, again no laundering possible.

If not laundering or fraud, I suspect this is something to do with some kind of incentive scheme for making transactions. Who funds the cashback? It's not the bank, it comes from fees charged to merchants. This is why casinos dislike players who churn money with little play, they can never make a profit, so common sense tells them to ban the player. Some will levy charges for such excessive transacting.

The popular UK forum run by Martin Lewis has quite a few schemes like this, all perfectly legal, but designed to play big business at their own games, saving, even making, money from them. There is a section related to online casinos, mainly featuring ways to get more back in total than the cash deposited. Some cashback sites also offer to pass on their CPA to the member, something they get through the affiliate program. It would make perfect sense to join Casino Rewards through one such site, pocket the CPA share, and play as little as possible before withdrawing. Casino Rewards casinos DO feature on a couple of these sites, and so do a few others such as 32Red.

Taking 32Red as an example. Joining through a cashback site is worth £50, which is triggered when you make your first deposit. If you deposit £100, play a bit, and withdraw £95, you would actually be £45 up on the deal in total. Going through all the casinos on all the cashback sites like this could earn a 4 figure sum, but you could only do it once. You will probably find this on Martin Lewis' forum as well.

This is all perfectly honest and legal, well certainly as honest as business sending spam and claiming it is morally OK because there is an opt out link. As honest as employing Msc level behavioral psychologists to design supermarkets that make you spend more than you had intended; as honest as using cutting edge neuroscience to play mind games with customers in order to make them take leave of their senses when in the store, or have been cold called on the phone. Why do you think some shops smell faintly of lemon, what is that irritating muzak REALLY there for, why is it always so hard to find what you actually came to buy, but so easy to find more profitable alternatives that the shop wants to sell you.

When the consumer fights back with some science and maths of their own, good luck to them.

 

[Nifty29]

I found an interesting report on egaming money laundering. Grab a coffee and a comfy chair as it is in VWM format ( >2000 words):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

It certainly doesn't say that money laundering is impossible using cards, ewallets etc.

However, let's say for now it's not ML.

Whichever way you look at it, THERE IS AN ANGLE that this guy is taking.

Whether it is what maphesto said about not redeeming the bonuses (boni ...FFS) until after he has played his deposit through once or twice and has his withdrawals in his pocket, thus playing at pretty much no risk, or to take advantage of some CPA/incentive promotion via an affiliate. I've heard of cases where an affiliate gets a "bounty" for each player who deposits $100 and plays it through (rather than a %of their losses over time), and they get their buddies who don't gamble to sign up and play a little,withdraw almost all of their deposit, or even a little profit ($9) for example, and then given them a kickback of a slice of the bounty.

If this guy deposited via credit card, the charges involved with cash advances and ongoing interest would wipe out the $9 profit very quickly.....so it pretty much means they don't win a thing, or perhaps even lose. So, its not about "Nifty being rich", its about this guy KNOWING that by withdrawing with a $9 profit he's lucky to be drawing even. There is NO other explanation other than what a few of us have stated.....there IS an angle that the player is deliberately concealing.

Remember, the casino can see which affiliate/website referred him, and what deal they have in place, and whether other players via that affiliate have done the same thing. In this case, it would be helpful if Renee explained at least in part what the reasons were for banning the player.

Max's revelation that the OP is pulling this stunt elsewhere adds a LOT of fuel to an already burning fire. Fraudulent? Perhaps not. Dodgy? Absolutely, and grounds for any casino to refund deposits and ban the player. What I'm looking forward to is when the OP pulls this stroke at some equally dodgy casino, and they keep his deposits and nobody can help him. Karma has a habit of doing the rounds.

Anyway, if Renee says he isn't a fraud I'll apologize, as always (can count on one hand how many times I've had to do it).

Also, those who think a high five is in order for the OP for "getting one over" on the casinos, should also send him flowers and chokkies for being partly responsible for the ridiculous terms and restrictions that honest players are subjected to these days.

 

[FAZI1]

this looks like affiliate cpa fraud if caisno rewards affiliates pay some amount example 100-150 or 200$ for every new first depositor over 100$- registered from some affiliate links.

Then player who registered from this links do deposit 100 $ in first deposit ( over cpa minimum) and withdrawal 109$ heh so now affiliate person who bring this person get commision cpa for this person ( like 100-150-200$) and if affiliate person know player then ( he offered player cashback from erned cpa amount ) fraudency cooperations - affiliate - player = but mayby im say wrong............

If you do deposit 100 $ and try withdrawal 109$ then withdrawal and security team from casino will be check this very close and and duble becose this is very strange practice = but im thing olso casino always check double trying find any relations with affilaite person - player and if find somthing then blocked olso commision from affiliates. not only player accont. and possible withdrawal.