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[dealer wins]

Well this thread has put me off ever depositing here again sadly. Gambling at online casinos makes you wonder if you do hit that once in a lifetime dream hit, what shit awaits you and will you even get paid?

No wonder its a dying industry, so depressing.

 

[Sasukdcf]

Here’s an idea if the U.K. casinos are so much hassle you can always play on the non licence sites then when cash out time comes around u really will have something to fucking moan about.

That’s harsh.... despite it being safer at a UK casino ( albeit based in Malta I believe )

it’s still a joke trying to get what’s yours...

Just because there are worse places doesn’t make this a good situation....

If they blocked me depositing and playing then I would have a modicum more respect for the lengths they are going to, however as they haven’t then it seems an unnecessary hassle as in reality they don’t give a fuck where the money comes from or they wouldn’t continue to let me play would they?????

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Why is it ok to deposit 5 grand in the first place if they care about SOW and RG and whatever the fuck they harp on about?

Why does it become an issue when somebody wants to withdraw? Yet despite this the player is allowed to continue depositing?

It’s just horse shit and anybody even considering depositing at said casino that is a UK player must be out of their mind.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

We posted at the same time!! But the gist of the posts are the same.

There is no excuse for any of this nonsense.

 

[bigbear]

The thing that as always puzzled me about Source of Wealth is that presumably rules have been laid down by the UKGC that all UK licensed casinos are obliged to follow.So you have an outfit like Casumo who want everything up to a DNA sample claiming that it is necessary under the terms of their licence. At the other end of the spectrum you have a company like Sky Vegas who never (personally speaking) ask for SOW or KYC documents and pay to a bank account in less than 24 hours.I am sure that Sky are not flouting the rules and risking a large fine so why the difference in approaches? IMO it can only be that the rules are unclear or ambiguous and every casino is putting their own interpretation on them.Shame that the UKGC doesn't address this issue rather than simply banging out new missives all the time.

 

[dealer wins]

SOW is never an issue when making a withdrawal, casinos forget this!!

 

[Downsman]

The thing that as always puzzled me about Source of Wealth is that presumably rules have been laid down by the UKGC that all UK licensed casinos are obliged to follow.So you have an outfit like Casumo who want everything up to a DNA sample claiming that it is necessary under the terms of their licence. At the other end of the spectrum you have a company like Sky Vegas who never (personally speaking) ask for SOW or KYC documents and pay to a bank account in less than 24 hours.I am sure that Sky are not flouting the rules and risking a large fine so why the difference in approaches? IMO it can only be that the rules are unclear or ambiguous and every casino is putting their own interpretation on them.Shame that the UKGC doesn't address this issue rather than simply banging out new missives all the time.

Like you Sky have never asked me for ID..KYC..SOW or any other nonsense, and pay instantly.
Nor have any of the other UK based casinos.

 

[Mr Wild]

The fines are too small for them to get hurt. They would lose more money following the regulation.

 

[colinsunderland]

The fines are too small for them to get hurt. They would lose more money following the regulation.

Rubbish, they do follow the regulations, they just understand the law properly. I know of cases where William Hill were asking for SoW documentation over 10 years ago.
Whats happened is, casinos outside the UK didn't think they had to follow the law and are shitting themselves in case they get fined, now that they realise they do, so they are going over the top with requests.

 

[Mr Wild]

Rubbish, they do follow the regulations, they just understand the law properly. I know of cases where William Hill were asking for SoW documentation over 10 years ago.
Whats happened is, casinos outside the UK didn't think they had to follow the law and are shitting themselves in case they get fined, now that they realise they do, so they are going over the top with requests.

Yeah right.

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[colinsunderland]

Yeah right.

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so 10 customers slipped through in what, 80 years?
Remind me why Videoslots paid a million £ not that long ago?
Remind me which non UK based casino was the first to shit themselves and start doing ridiculous AML checks on all customers?

 

[Mr Wild]

so 10 customers slipped through in what, 80 years?
Remind me why Videoslots paid a million £ not that long ago?
Remind me which non UK based casino was the first to shit themselves and start doing ridiculous AML checks on all customers?

Same reason WH did and the rest operator that have been fined.

Exactly what I wrote first, the fines are too small for WH to care. They are not too small for L&L, VS or Casumo to care. That’s why they shit themselves Mr I Know Everything.

 

[shadow123]

I have no idea how you could launder money at a casino, all you can do is deposit and withdraw by the same
method, does not make the funds any more legitimate and is a crappy idea anyway as the transactions are
recorded and could be used as evidence.
Think using the term AML makes it sound as though criminal activity is rife in online gaming and justifies
the heavy regulation and fines.

 

[Kroffe]

I have no idea how you could launder money at a casino, all you can do is deposit and withdraw by the same
method, does not make the funds any more legitimate and is a crappy idea anyway as the transactions are
recorded and could be used as evidence.
Think using the term AML makes it sound as though criminal activity is rife in online gaming and justifies
the heavy regulation and fines.

Poker comes to mind.
Should be fairly simple moving money around there.

 

[brianmon]

Poker comes to mind.
Should be fairly simple moving money around there.

should be no need to target slots players then.
Although I think part of this AML business is aimed at the casinos themselves, rather than just the players.
It would be so easy to set up fake accounts to launder money through a casino, or 'facilitate' the laundering of money through genuine accounts (for a brown envelope fee, of course).

 

[colinsunderland]

Same reason WH did and the rest operator that have been fined.

Exactly what I wrote first, the fines are too small for WH to care. They are not too small for L&L, VS or Casumo to care. That’s why they shit themselves Mr I Know Everything.

So why aren't we seeing them fined every month, if the attitude is that they don't care because the fine is so small, then it's a nice revenue stream for the UKGC every month. Few million for each, every month, a lot of money over the year. Repeated breaches would, of course, result in possible license loss or suspension, which I'm sure they would care about, but don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy.
Fact is, more non uk casinos have been hit with penalties for this type of thing than uk casinos. Fact is the main bookmakers have a lot more UK customers than the smaller non uk ones. The fact is, if they were routinely ignoring these rules, we would see a lot more cases against them.
As I say, William hill were doing SoW requests before Videoslots, Casumo and L&L were even thought about. Unfortunately the posts were on a long gone forum, but heres one from 2016.

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or if thats not old enough, how about this one from 2014

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Or 2015

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but yeah, they don't care, and thats why they don't do it, and aren't following the law at all. I don't recall seeing posts anywhere about SoW for AML purposes before about 2018 for any non uk based casino, and certainly not as far back as 2014. It was only after the penalties started to be dished out, some casinos started blanket sending them as they don't have a clue how to handle it.

 

[Mr Wild]

So why aren't we seeing them fined every month, if the attitude is that they don't care because the fine is so small, then it's a nice revenue stream for the UKGC every month. Few million for each, every month, a lot of money over the year. Repeated breaches would, of course, result in possible license loss or suspension, which I'm sure they would care about, but don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy.
Fact is, more non uk casinos have been hit with penalties for this type of thing than uk casinos. Fact is the main bookmakers have a lot more UK customers than the smaller non uk ones. The fact is, if they were routinely ignoring these rules, we would see a lot more cases against them.
As I say, William hill were doing SoW requests before Videoslots, Casumo and L&L were even thought about. Unfortunately the posts were on a long gone forum, but heres one from 2016.

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or if thats not old enough, how about this one from 2014

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Or 2015

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but yeah, they don't care, and thats why they don't do it, and aren't following the law at all. I don't recall seeing posts anywhere about SoW for AML purposes before about 2018 for any non uk based casino, and certainly not as far back as 2014. It was only after the penalties started to be dished out, some casinos started blanket sending them as they don't have a clue how to handle it.

Operators in Malta didn’t need to do SOW until October 2016. Operators based in Uk had to do it before. Even though both had UKGC license.

 

[colinsunderland]

Operators in Malta didn’t need to do SOW until October 2016. Operators based in Uk had to do it before. Even though both had UKGC license.

There were no anti money laundering laws in Malta (or the EU) before October 2016 that casinos had to adhere to? Can you find any posts from pre-2017 of casinos doing AML checks? I've just searched for half a dozen big names who were operating back then and can't find any evidence they were doing them back then?

 

[Mr Wild]

There were no anti money laundering laws in Malta (or the EU) before October 2016 that casinos had to adhere to? Can you find any posts from pre-2017 of casinos doing AML checks? I've just searched for half a dozen big names who were operating back then and can't find any evidence they were doing them back then?

Before 2016 with UKGC license, the AML regulation was local where company was based, so if you where based in Malta you had to follow Maltese AML laws. That changed with the changes of AML 4th directive and from October 2016 all UKGC licensees had to follow UK law. Before EUs 4th directive online casinos was not considered as a financial service in most countries in EU and didn’t need to do SOW checks.

 

[colinsunderland]

Before 2016 with UKGC license, the AML regulation was local where company was based, so if you where based in Malta you had to follow Maltese AML laws. That changed with the changes of AML 4th directive and from October 2016 all UKGC licensees had to follow UK law. Before EUs 4th directive online casinos was not considered as a financial service in most countries in EU and didn’t need to do SOW checks.

Ah right. I still haven't seen any evidence any / all Matla based casinos were doing AML checks back in 2016 though, (have only had a quick google though) and can't really find anything showing they were until 2018, which goes to show they ignored the rules until it suited them, ie, when the UKGC started giving them quite large penalties.
In the current environment, I can pretty much guarantee my deposit levels at Videoslots and Casumo back then (early 2018), would have triggered an AML request.

 

[Mr Wild]

Ah right. I still haven't seen any evidence any / all Matla based casinos were doing AML checks back in 2016 though, (have only had a quick google though) and can't really find anything showing they were until 2018, which goes to show they ignored the rules until it suited them, ie, when the UKGC started giving them quite large penalties.
In the current environment, I can pretty much guarantee my deposit levels at Videoslots and Casumo back then (early 2018), would have triggered an AML request.

They where given 2 months heads up. Information about the change went out aug 2016. No one manage to set it up that quickly and UKGC stormed in and fined everyone. All operators started to act in panic as they where scared and tried to build systems, set up protocols and risk based approaches. Plus hiring all required staff. Everything got a mess.
They new rules in Malta was to go live 2018 and most operators had planned for that date, little did they know that UKGC would change the rules from local to uk with a 2 months time frame.
It takes about 12 to 24 months to set up proper systems so 2018 is where the early ones got ready, but of course it was already too late.

 

[colinsunderland]

Forgive me for being a little cynical. but it takes 2 years to put a system in place for it, which, being honest, isn't much different to the responsible gaming systems all casinos should have had in place by then, and the end of the 2 year period that casinos managed to adhere to, just so happened to coincide with the point where the UKGC started warning casinos and giving penalties for AML breaches? Someone less trusting might look at that and think, in fact, casinos only implemented those systems at the very last minute because they had to and knew large financial penalties were on the way, and thought if they did them just before the UKGC made their ruling, it might help them, maybe meaning they could suggest voluntarily paying a sum in lieu of an official penalty.

 

[Mr Wild]

Forgive me for being a little cynical. but it takes 2 years to put a system in place for it, which, being honest, isn't much different to the responsible gaming systems all casinos should have had in place by then, and the end of the 2 year period that casinos managed to adhere to, just so happened to coincide with the point where the UKGC started warning casinos and giving penalties for AML breaches? Someone less trusting might look at that and think, in fact, casinos only implemented those systems at the very last minute because they had to and knew large financial penalties were on the way, and thought if they did them just before the UKGC made their ruling, it might help them, maybe meaning they could suggest voluntarily paying a sum in lieu of an official penalty.

Yes it takes 12 to 24 months on average to set up proper systems, hire right staff and get compliance fully functional.

A ukgc investigation takes 1 to 3 years before it normally reach public eye.

There is a lot of difference between AML and RG.

 

[colinsunderland]

Yes it takes 12 to 24 months on average to set up proper systems, hire right staff and get compliance fully functional.

A ukgc investigation takes 1 to 3 years before it normally reach public eye.

There is a lot of difference between AML and RG.

And yet Videoslots initial system was to bulk email all or most their customer base requesting documents. Not sure how setting up a bulk email system, that was already in place, takes 2 years.

 

[Mr Wild]

And yet Videoslots initial system was to bulk email all or most their customer base requesting documents. Not sure how setting up a bulk email system, that was already in place, takes 2 years.

There was no bulk system at VS.

 

[colinsunderland]

There was no bulk system at VS.

Really, as the thread at the time would suggest there was, either that or VS's had reason to suspect almost every forum member of being a high risk of being involved in criminal activity.
VS's also enabled a pop up for EVERY UK customer requesting SoW information, to include occupation and amount they believed they could afford to lose per month. That is bulk requesting and not based on risk whatsoever.

 

[Mr Wild]

Really, as the thread at the time would suggest there was, either that or VS's had reason to suspect almost every forum member of being a high risk of being involved in criminal activity.
VS's also enabled a pop up for EVERY UK customer requesting SoW information, to include occupation and amount they believed they could afford to lose per month. That is bulk requesting and not based on risk whatsoever.

Its up to the company to set its risk, I dont believe VS is following colinsunderlands risk appetite.

All UK players at VS need to set loss limits before first time of play, VS are testing that in UK and will be adding it for all markets as they see customers keeping their control better. Great initiative in my view!

 

[colinsunderland]

Its up to the company to set its risk, I dont believe VS is following colinsunderlands risk appetite.

All UK players at VS need to set loss limits before first time of play, VS are testing that in UK and will be adding it for all markets as they see customers keeping their control better. Great initiative in my view!

What do loss limits have to do with AML rules? You know the ones VS's should have only been requesting if they had reason to suspect the customer was a risk of being involved in crime? The same emails that WERE bulk sent to a LOT of forum members that stated the information was for AML reasons, but VS's then used for RG reasons, which was completely against UKGC guidelines. But yes, the policy that took 2 years to write was fine.

 

[Mr Wild]

You referred to customer setting their budgets before first time of play. That is loss limit, so players dont spend more than they want. I think that is a great initiative!

UKGC wants affordability checks on customers regardless if that is on AML or not. You can say what you want about that, but I dont work with UKGC so you need to take that fight with them and not me.

A companys AML checks is based on their BRA. Not if they suspect criminal activity. If they suspect criminal activity account should be restricted. With a good BRA, checks should be done before they suspect criminal activity.

 

[Sasukdcf]

Well I have contacted them again today

they keep saying they have 24 hours to review documents...

So they are saying will be reviewed by 17.00 CET time, which im guessing is the time they go home, so my prediction is they will wait until then and suddenly decide they need something else and therefore drag it out by another 2 days.... as whatever they want won’t be actioned til 9am tomorrow and then they have another 24 hours to sit on their arses laughing!!
Can’t get hold of Jan who implied would be sorted last night and still we wait....

 

[Sasukdcf]

Ok so latest update is that I gave them way too much credit for thinking they would come up with an excuse and ask for something else....

They didn’t even bother to do that...

My response when telling them that they had assured me it would be done by 5pm


17:19
I can see we have received your documents. They have been sent for approval. Due to a high amount of documents received the process is taking a little longer then usual. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. We will email you once approved.

can I open a PAB on this to try and get this pushed through? They are just going to be awkward now for the sake of it... I hope someone high up at this forum has seen this as currently I am wondering if their accredited status should be removed as this isn’t how it should be surely ??

 

[Borgie]

If you want Bryan or Max to read the thread you need to flag them.

You can raise a PAB but I do not see that hurrying things up really.

 

[Harry_BKK]

can I open a PAB on this to try and get this pushed through? They are just going to be awkward now for the sake of it... I hope someone high up at this forum has seen this as currently I am wondering if their accredited status should be removed as this isn’t how it should be surely ??

 

[Luckyscouser45]

Ok so latest update is that I gave them way too much credit for thinking they would come up with an excuse and ask for something else....

They didn’t even bother to do that...

My response when telling them that they had assured me it would be done by 5pm


17:19
I can see we have received your documents. They have been sent for approval. Due to a high amount of documents received the process is taking a little longer then usual. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. We will email you once approved.

can I open a PAB on this to try and get this pushed through? They are just going to be awkward now for the sake of it... I hope someone high up at this forum has seen this as currently I am wondering if their accredited status should be removed as this isn’t how it should be surely ??

Bit harsh wouldn’t go that far as to say they don’t deserve to be accredited lol

 

[shadow123]

Welcome to my world,spent close to an hour on chat to Meccas verification team this morning trying
to get access to depositing,hoping what I have agreed to send them will be acceptable,may take 72
hours for them to deciede.To be honest I am past caring,at least I have no cash tied up in the casino
this time.

 

[Sasukdcf]

Is it harsh ? I don’t know

I have been fully verified at rizk Will hill jackpot joy regal wins bet victor... no real issues at all...

Is it right that they are holding over 4,000 of my money and quoting sow and the like yet they are happy for me to continue to deposit and play ( not that I am )

surely the point of using the accreditation via CM is that they are trustworthy and fair...

this doesn’t feel very fair that they are consistently fobbing me off and protracting our the situation unnecessarily.....

I have worked out that currently I have spent 11.5 hours in total trying to get the information together and speaking to them to get this resolved....

I have begrudgingly complied with every unreasonable request they have made and now “ they are very busy “

sorry that’s just BS...

If they didn’t allow me to continue playing I would have a modicum more respect for them, but laughable that I could probably deposit another couple of grand without an issue yet they can’t pay me my 4.5k because they need to complete sow checks !!!
You think that’s all acceptable for a CM accredited casino ??

 

[Sasukdcf]

Welcome to my world,spent close to an hour on chat to Meccas verification team this morning trying
to get access to depositing,hoping what I have agreed to send them will be acceptable,may take 72
hours for them to deciede.To be honest I am past caring,at least I have no cash tied up in the casino
this time.

At least they are making you do it before tho!
A chore maybe but the responsible way to do it!!
Rizk were the same it was a little arduous but then Faye very kindly dropped £200 in my account for the time... and again it wasn’t asked for by holding my money to ransom ! That’s what’s annoying me here

 

[L&L-Jan]

These type of requests are supposed to be done on a case by case basis. On both (RG and AML) to start asking for these types of in depth requests, the casino should either believe there is an affordability problem or the funds aren't from a legitimate source.

Just this.

Sorry our team requires time but it's not an easy one.

 

[L&L-Jan]

But our accredited status can be removed due to this topic, np !

 

[Lobo]

Accepting deposits while the player is undergoing a serious SOW, with withdrawals locked, is scummy af.
Jan has sided with Casumo in a few important SOW-questions (ref. ask Louis thread) so you might have a though one.
I hope everything get solved, OP! Good luck!

Edit: countdown to @colinsunderland comes to defend L&L

 

[L&L-Jan]

Thats more a matter of increased workload, people with limited access thanks to a virus nobody asked for.

But good to see you are always around for a comment @Lobo!!!

Maybe you have hate to me our the company I represent, but maybe you could think twice before being funny!

AGAIN!

 

[Lobo]

Thats more a matter of increased workload, people with limited access thanks to a virus nobody asked for.

But good to see you are always around for a comment @Lobo!!!

Maybe you have hate to me our the company I represent, but maybe you could think twice before being funny!

AGAIN!

I am commenting on a shady SOW practice of an online casino... AGAIN

 

[L&L-Jan]

Yes because we are VERY WELL KNOWN for that ... hahaha

Good luck trolling other operators!

 

[shadow123]

At least they are making you do it before tho!
A chore maybe but the responsible way to do it!!
Rizk were the same it was a little arduous but then Faye very kindly dropped £200 in my account for the time... and again it wasn’t asked for by holding my money to ransom ! That’s what’s annoying me here

Second time I have been locked out of Mecca, took ages to sort it then found I had £400 in the account which I had forgotten about .. which was nice

 

[Lobo]

Yes because we are VERY WELL KNOWN for that ... hahaha

Good luck trolling other operators!

How am I trolling? I am just reading what OP is going through at one of your casinoes.
There are two things I can't stand with online casinoes:

1. Unfair SOW's
2. Low RTP

Nothing against you, Jan - but I understand how you can take it personally.

Over and out from Lobo.

xoxo

 

[slotmaster]

OP is not alone, still waiting, and was told it could be 48 hours if it is the right document or not or they need something else which will start the clock all over again. I am trying to withdraw and was hopeful I would get the money by end of week but it is not looking like it at the casino I played at.

 

[colinsunderland]

Accepting deposits while the player is undergoing a serious SOW, with withdrawals locked, is scummy af.
Jan has sided with Casumo in a few important SOW-questions (ref. ask Louis thread) so you might have a though one.
I hope everything get solved, OP! Good luck!

Edit: countdown to @colinsunderland comes to defend L&L

Still waiting for my reply to my last post to you about rtp, oh wait, as you are trolling, then you won't answer will you.

 

[The Dude]

Hi guys,

I was busy getting my drink on when Pere locked this thread due to "trolling". I will peruse the thread to make sure all is in order. If indeed there is trolling going on, I will dish out the spankings.

Please be cool - and abide by our posting rules. Thanks!

 

[shadow123]

Form a queue

 

[The Dude]

OK - there is a load of really good info in this thread. Please don't spoil it by making digs at one another. I am sure we are better than that.

As Jan mentioned, these are trying times, and with all of the BS that casinos and players have to deal with, having your resources scattered around or inaccessible does not help anyone. So let's bear this in mind.

It's unfair, in my opinion, to question a casino's accreditation status over an incident like this when it has been a freaking outstanding casino for the past several years, to include Best Casino of 2019. So please keep things in perspective. Thank you.