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Sasukdcf

Full Member
PABnorogue
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Location
Norwich
Hi All

Just thought I would attempt to post a review and maybe raise a couple of points regarding ABC
I had seen they were highly rated on here so decided to join for a change of scenery as it were.

(yes i did join through the link mr casinomeister!!)

so ended up in a high stakes session which looked to be going quite badly until randomly decided to play Action Bank of all games and immediately hit Big Bank bonus for 4.5K!! happy days.....

So i withdraw 4K and was pleased to see no reversal facility and play down the rest to bust town (standard !!)

I then get the expected verification email and SOW demands.... (here we go)




Now i will say that the staff have been very good, very polite and responsive.

i spent an hour on chat this morning with Jadie, who again was really helpful and polite although not sure how much we achieved, as the verification seems arduous to say the least....



so i supplied passport utility bill paypal screen shots bank statement from business and personal accounts, company house screenshots proving i am the owner and more.....


i was perpetually told paypal screenshot was not permissable because they *** out some of the phone number in the account details ?????? i tried on phone and on laptop and it was the same, so not sure whats happening about that as i cant change howpaypal display their data!!!


i had to supply full business bank statement and now being asked for my tax returns which i dont have as accountant does all that.... so to say its been a faff is an understatement, however again to be fair they have been super fast to respond all the time even if it is to say "computer says NO!!"


so i am hopeful we may get to a point where i may be allowed to have my money, however in the meantime i do have a concern and wanted peoples thoughts on it,.......


they are very vocal on the fact that they are UKGC governed etc, which is the reason i joined, but I did ask them a question that they refused to comment on....

they have yet to complete verification and therefore willl not release my 4K however they are still letting me deposit and play?? I find that curious to say the least, but further more, having deposited again to play lower stakes i was fortunate to get balance upto 800 and tried to withdraw and they wont let me withdraw now as they have a policy of only 1 withdrawal at a time, which I have never heard of.

and as the initial one is still pending means im stuck on making a withdrawal ...... but its OK i can still deposit !!!!

are the GC really that bad that they have allowed the casinos to hold on to funds but still allow the player to deposit??



so im currently now stuck not wanting to play and risk my whole balance and cant withdraw and even if i do withdraw im struggling to get verified anyways !!!! all a big faff for a sunday Morning .....


site seems pretty good tho, does crash a bit as others have said especially if on fast play,

and although this post may seem a little negative towards them again i will stress they have been polite and super responsive, the one withdrawal thing is a little concerning though as i dont know how long a withdrawal normally takes but if its not "rizk" speed (lightning fast ) then that seems a little counter intuitive regarding RG
 

bamberfishcake

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
Essex
Also found the one withdrawal at a time to be a pain.

I tend to withdrawal what i have deposited, at least, when i can then play on which may lead to another withdrawal.

With one pending you simply cannot withdrawal anymore which i dont think is right - @L&L-Jan may be able to help as i know this was a change following UKGC guidelines, affected more by their system set up than a conscious effort to limit withdrawals. I think Jan was looking into this.

If Paypal dont show the full number then i would ask how other customers have managed to get passed this hurdle. Its obvious you cannot affect their system and how they show information so how do other people get round it when asked or do they just fail verification?

Yes, I agree a funny set up that you can deposit without being verified then request a withdrawal but then have to verify and can continue to play but not withdrawal whilst seemingly jumping through hoops to get impossible screenshots.

As for the reliability, I also get frequent errors.

Hopeful you should get your money and congrats on the win!
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Also found the one withdrawal at a time to be a pain.

I tend to withdrawal what i have deposited, at least, when i can then play on which may lead to another withdrawal.

With one pending you simply cannot withdrawal anymore which i dont think is right - @L&L-Jan may be able to help as i know this was a change following UKGC guidelines, affected more by their system set up than a conscious effort to limit withdrawals. I think Jan was looking into this.

If Paypal dont show the full number then i would ask how other customers have managed to get passed this hurdle. Its obvious you cannot affect their system and how they show information so how do other people get round it when asked or do they just fail verification?

Yes, I agree a funny set up that you can deposit without being verified then request a withdrawal but then have to verify and can continue to play but not withdrawal whilst seemingly jumping through hoops to get impossible screenshots.

As for the reliability, I also get frequent errors.

Hopeful you should get your money and congrats on the win!

As above (the reliability of the sites is patchy IMO) but also, i like to be able to deposit when still in a game and not have to come out etc (superstitious) - don't know if it's just me but i can't at L and L: takes the deposit fine but the debit card authorisation screen blocks the whole screen, can't see a button to click out of it and needs to reload. Might not appear much of an issue but personally these wee quirks irk me :p
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Yeah the verification department can be a pain, but if you message Jan he will sort it if they can.
They wanted proof of a virtual card from me, I sent them a photo of the screen on my phone showing it, then they wanted a screenshot and it to have my name on, despite the photo showing the virtual card doesn't show a name.
So explained about the name and I sent a photo of me trying to take a screenshot and the pop up saying 'revolut security settings do not allow screenshots of this page'. Reply, we need a screenshot and your name showing on the card. Rinse and repeat 3 or 4 times, Jan sorted it, but for simple things like that you shouldn't have to go to a rep.
 

Sasukdcf

Full Member
PABnorogue
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Location
Norwich
well the plot thickens..... still no update on verification, however i wanted to play with some of the 800 that i had in my account

so on the chat i asked jadie what tools were available as they wouldnt let me withdraw to keep 500 of the 800 safe.....

she advised to set a loss limit for the day of 300.....

good plan i thought so off i toddled and did just that.....

decided to play punk which cremated me on 1 pound stake and after 250 down i hit a feature for 19.70 which i think is my worst ever....

so with only 70 left to play with i decided to risk it and went up to 2 pound....

didnt hit anything before hitting my stop limit of 500 balance remaining.....

but wait it continued to let me play????

i played a few more spins and indeed my balance was dropping way below what i asked it to stop at....

i did hit the feature and what a great story that would be to say i hit a 5000x feature ! sadly only 40x which put me back to over the 500 and i stopped....

contacted chat and spoke to adrian who said its a loss limit and as i won the 800 from a deposit yesterday a loss limit would allow me to play down to zero and deposit another 200 before it stopped me, which is totally not what i asked for from the previous representative and not how she explained it worked, i would assume it would have calculated from the balance i had when i activated it.

would have been interesting to see where the onus fell if i had blown the lot considering i specifically asked how to protect the 500 and was told to apply these limits to do so,

i think its quite bad that the representatives dont know how to use the RG tools correctly, and it would appear there would be no facility to have protected the 500 as i cannot currently withdraw....
 

Sasukdcf

Full Member
PABnorogue
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Location
Norwich
Also found the one withdrawal at a time to be a pain.

I tend to withdrawal what i have deposited, at least, when i can then play on which may lead to another withdrawal.

With one pending you simply cannot withdrawal anymore which i dont think is right - @L&L-Jan may be able to help as i know this was a change following UKGC guidelines, affected more by their system set up than a conscious effort to limit withdrawals. I think Jan was looking into this.

If Paypal dont show the full number then i would ask how other customers have managed to get passed this hurdle. Its obvious you cannot affect their system and how they show information so how do other people get round it when asked or do they just fail verification?

Yes, I agree a funny set up that you can deposit without being verified then request a withdrawal but then have to verify and can continue to play but not withdrawal whilst seemingly jumping through hoops to get impossible screenshots.

As for the reliability, I also get frequent errors.

Hopeful you should get your money and congrats on the win!
Thanks bamber, lucky escape to be honest ! and yes doesnt sit right to me.... i didnt think they were allowed to hold up withdrawals for verification purposes
 

Sasukdcf

Full Member
PABnorogue
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Location
Norwich
@L&L-Jan

may be worth you taking a look at this thread, i believe i have been accurate and honest in my meanderings.

it would appear you have a reputation for being "on it" lol
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Thanks bamber, lucky escape to be honest ! and yes doesnt sit right to me.... i didnt think they were allowed to hold up withdrawals for verification purposes

They are if its for this type of thing. I don't agree with it, especially accepting deposits at the same time though. Casumo do it too, although their checks tend to be close to impossible at times, wanting your friends bank statements and ID and stuff and if you can't get them, they don't pay you.
 

Kenji85

Full Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Location
Cork
well the plot thickens..... still no update on verification, however i wanted to play with some of the 800 that i had in my account

so on the chat i asked jadie what tools were available as they wouldnt let me withdraw to keep 500 of the 800 safe.....

she advised to set a loss limit for the day of 300.....

good plan i thought so off i toddled and did just that.....

decided to play punk which cremated me on 1 pound stake and after 250 down i hit a feature for 19.70 which i think is my worst ever....

so with only 70 left to play with i decided to risk it and went up to 2 pound....

didnt hit anything before hitting my stop limit of 500 balance remaining.....

but wait it continued to let me play????

i played a few more spins and indeed my balance was dropping way below what i asked it to stop at....

i did hit the feature and what a great story that would be to say i hit a 5000x feature ! sadly only 40x which put me back to over the 500 and i stopped....

contacted chat and spoke to adrian who said its a loss limit and as i won the 800 from a deposit yesterday a loss limit would allow me to play down to zero and deposit another 200 before it stopped me, which is totally not what i asked for from the previous representative and not how she explained it worked, i would assume it would have calculated from the balance i had when i activated it.

would have been interesting to see where the onus fell if i had blown the lot considering i specifically asked how to protect the 500 and was told to apply these limits to do so,

i think its quite bad that the representatives dont know how to use the RG tools correctly, and it would appear there would be no facility to have protected the 500 as i cannot currently withdraw....


Is there a timeout option?

It seems to me you struggle with self restraint to stop yourself playing with the unwitdrawable balance.
No judgement by the way. Lots of us have done it, just think it might be the way to stop you punting back the 800 sitting there!


FWIW I totally agree you depositing shouldn't be an option while any casino holds a withdrawal of your for sow or age/address verification.
 

Borgie

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
They are if its for this type of thing. I don't agree with it, especially accepting deposits at the same time though. Casumo do it too, although their checks tend to be close to impossible at times, wanting your friends bank statements and ID and stuff and if you can't get them, they don't pay you.

It really puts you off playing as it means any casino can simply make a string of ridiculous requests that most will not be able to supply or are so invasive you would be mad to comply and then hold on to wads of if cash that isn't theres ... legally!!!
 

shadow123

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
midlands
Very similar experience, withdrawal ransomed until I provided anything and everything they requested,
still allowed to reverse it at any time and play,really not on.went way further than I was happy with just to
get the withdrawal paid.
I was going to give them another chance but they started asking for yet more info so I gave up and closed the account.
Yep they have strict regulations to comply with but the manner they enforce them does not make for a happy
experience
.Said it many times the UKGC combined with dubious actions by the casinos is going to kill online gaming in the UK.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Heres how I see it. (This isn't anything against L&L, as I know Jan will always sort any problems out the best he can)

These type of requests are supposed to be done on a case by case basis. On both (RG and AML) to start asking for these types of in depth requests, the casino should either believe there is an affordability problem or the funds aren't from a legitimate source.

Responsible Gaming - if the casino believes there could be a problem, then how on earth is refusing a withdrawal helping a customer who has a gambling problem? It could cause more.

As an example (I don't do this but I know people do). You have £1000 in your account. You have to pay £750 rent in 4 days, £100 gas and electric, and £50 food. So you have £100 to play with. You deposit that £100 at a reputable casino, win £1000, withdraw. You can't reverse and you know in 2-3 days you will have £1000 spare. So you might want to play elsewhere and you decide to pop £100 in from your rent, then another £100 elsewhere. Perfectly ok as you will still have £800 in 2-3 days max. Then the casino you are withdrawing from decides, 2 days later, instead of processing the withdrawal, to start asking for SoW documents, which then take them 2-3 days to process. Then ask for more, another 2-3 days, then more, another 2-3 days. Now you can't pay your rent putting you in financial difficulty.

Before anyone says it, I know people shouldn't spend the money until it's in their account, but people do. I've yet to see a rep explain how holding a withdrawal when the checks are for RG issues, is helping a customer.

Regarding deposits, again, if a casino believes a customer is showing signs of problem gambling, or they have affordability concerns, then deposits should be blocked immediately. I would love to see a rep try to explain why taking money of a customer, they believe might have RG issues, is anything but abhorrent.

Regarding AML laws. Some people think it solely applies to people money laundering, as the request is made under the Anti Money Laundering Laws. It isn't. It's to attempt to stop people using criminal proceeds, which could be something like someone doing burglaries to fund the gambling, selling drugs, or even something like working cash in hand, paying no tax on your earnings, benefit fraud etc.

Now in this case, if the casino have serious concerns then things aren't as black and white. If they are about to, or have, submitted a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) to the authorities, then they can't pay a withdrawal until the authority have said they can, or alert the customer to what they are doing, so blocking deposits could be classed as alerting someone, especially if it became common knowledge. However, if they aren't going to submit a SAR, then they should really be paying a withdrawal in my view, as I haven't seen anything to state differently.

Again though, similar to RG concerns. If they have any concerns about the legitimacy of the funds (which they should have to request SoW documentation), then in my view, deposits should be blocked, otherwise, if the funds are shown to be illegitimate, they have been handling stolen money.

In the UK there is a criminal offence of 'attempt' on a lot of laws. One is 'attempting to handle stolen property'. It basically means that regardless of if something is stolen, if you believed it was when you tried to or bought it, you would be guilty of the offence, which carries the same penalty of the charge without the 'attempting' in front.

So if you came out the pub and a bloke asked you, 'hey mate, you want to buy a 4k TV for £50, just nicked this van from Currys and need it all gone before the coppers get here' and you said yes, and bought one you could end up in jail, even if it later turned out the TV's were actually fully legitimate and were from a warehouse clearance or something. It doesn't matter if they are stolen or not, just what you believed, or had suspicion of.

Obviously thats not exactly the same as a casino, but if a casino believes there is enough doubt about the legitimacy of the funds, then I can't see how taking more deposits, from a source they suspected might not be legitimate, is any different.

Again, I've asked a rep previously for his view on that, and he was gagged by his bosses (casumo).

Sorry for the long post :) and apologies to Jan for posting in a thread about ABC, but its the most current one about this type of thing.
 
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shadow123

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
midlands
I am pretty sure the actual incidence of money laundering is next to zero, other SAR incidents close to zero.
The main reason for the over zealous attitude to the regs is quite simple,the fear of fines and sanctions
possibly even the loss of the UK licence
Casinos are there to make money,they could not care less about RG, its actually the last thing they want,all the adverts now are about how much they care about us and how they can help to give us a great experience,
makes you want to vomit.
 

GameRoom

Banned User
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Location
please don't abuse this field
to me All casinos are enemy non are nice when it comes to withdraw they all make problems,who can someone do money laundering when deposit history is like 10k a year,Simple they don't want to pay,i stop playing and some casinos like All British,and same time good casinos like videoslots they are using their time to lower RTP but not ask much about doc or make problems on cash out
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
to me All casinos are enemy non are nice when it comes to withdraw they all make problems,who can someone do money laundering when deposit history is like 10k a year,Simple they don't want to pay,i stop playing and some casinos like All British,and same time good casinos like videoslots they are using their time to lower RTP but not ask much about doc or make problems on cash out

Bit of a broad brush statement - I play, in some to a relative high degree, and have had no issues with withdrawals for the majority of them of them. If they do, i just close and walk away.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
to me All casinos are enemy non are nice when it comes to withdraw they all make problems,who can someone do money laundering when deposit history is like 10k a year,Simple they don't want to pay,i stop playing and some casinos like All British,and same time good casinos like videoslots they are using their time to lower RTP but not ask much about doc or make problems on cash out
10k a year would suggest an income of probably 40k a year at least. If your job is a cleaner for example, then I would be asking questions.
 

Jono777

Meister Member
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
10k a year would suggest an income of probably 40k a year at least. If your job is a cleaner for example, then I would be asking questions.

So would I mate, however there are a lot of grey areas and somewhat innocent explanations which is where this SoW/RG etc desperately needs some fine tuning.

Quick example would be "Mr. Super sensible" whom I'm led to believe there are actually quite a lot of them about. They deposit say £20, and each time they get in front, they pull out their initial deposit (or half of it, 50% profit, etc you get the idea)

Later/next day/later in that week, they deposit £20 again, same scenario happens 4 times in a week over a number of weeks. Without going into the maths, the point I'm making is that casino would be looking for say £300 to be explained, whereas the player has only really used/needs to evidence £50 of that amount.

Dropped right off my old deposit value myself but 12-24 month's ago the majority of my activity and deposits were recycled winnings. Unsure of actual values but may have shown as £2K over 3-4 month's where I'd actually only invested 2-3 hundred maybe?
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Some operators at least do complete and send SAR:s to authorities quite often, would assume most do on weekly basis if willing to follow AML regulations and directives. Sending it don't mean that you have to be seriously suspicious about criminal activities way or another, but just simply if player can't show income from legal sources covering deposits all the time and there are no huge gaps that somebody have been down £20 000 in month but payslip or bank statement don't really support it.

These days authorities are happy to receive these and handling them fast, some might have been through this but of course that's not informed to player if it's SAR to sent FIAU or who ever, depending players country of residence.

If you are not sure about something, you can ask them to consent to pay out this player and continue or stop relationship with based on their recommendations. After that, you have nothing to worry of players until that date you have provided all information to authorities and they give you green light.

Advising about claimed SAR would be tipping of which is considered to be criminal activity by person who does it (it's not allowed to share even internally but to be kept only between person who spot that activity and wish to do something and MLRO, everything else should be big no no, so usually for example rep shouldn't know if there is such process going on, unless they have failed it themselves to MLRO.
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 23, 2013
Location
Cumbria
Good point @Jono777

I'm depositing around £2k a month. So that's about 10k so far this year. But taking into account the withdrawals I've made I've actually only spent about £600 of my own money over the 5 months.

But I don't play at only one or even a handful of sites. I spread my deposits.
At the moment, I have 52 casinos which I play every week/month, all with deposit limits.
5 are set at £30 p/w and 47 at £30 p/m. So the most any casino will see is £120 in a month, with the vast majority only seeing £30 a month.

I learnt that lesson a while ago at Betat (long before they were rouged) when I was making regular deposits. They asked me to submit SOW documents, which I refused.
But there wasn't a withdrawal held hostage. They blocked my deposits and even blocked gameplay. I found this out because some cashback had been added to my account, which I tried to play with, unsuccessfully.
So rouge or not, I respect them for that.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
So would I mate, however there are a lot of grey areas and somewhat innocent explanations which is where this SoW/RG etc desperately needs some fine tuning.

Quick example would be "Mr. Super sensible" whom I'm led to believe there are actually quite a lot of them about. They deposit say £20, and each time they get in front, they pull out their initial deposit (or half of it, 50% profit, etc you get the idea)

Later/next day/later in that week, they deposit £20 again, same scenario happens 4 times in a week over a number of weeks. Without going into the maths, the point I'm making is that casino would be looking for say £300 to be explained, whereas the player has only really used/needs to evidence £50 of that amount.

Dropped right off my old deposit value myself but 12-24 month's ago the majority of my activity and deposits were recycled winnings. Unsure of actual values but may have shown as £2K over 3-4 month's where I'd actually only invested 2-3 hundred maybe?

That's one thing, giving some clear and logical guidelines when SOW to be triggered would be invitation to launder money through casinos if you would know exactly what and where is triggering it.

Regulators already are so kind that they publish mandatory KYC thresholds, if there would be instructions "SOW is needed in cases XYZF" it would be bit too easy to get around and would make onlinge casinos much more tempting to actual money laundering and these people who steal money to gamble or have gambling problems, would also easily know how to avoid these checks if know that it's potentially hard to get done or not willing to provide anything.

Amounts are that's why tricky that like @brianmon mentioned about his own selection of casinos, spreading your deposits to 52 or 120 places and you don't need to deposit much in one to get total amount of deposits quite big.

If you are wagering your winnings, it's easy SOW if you have been winning since your very first deposit, so amount you need to be able to proof to be legit is your one deposit of £50 or what so ever, rest coming from casino (withdrawals showing in very same statement like deposits as you are supposed to use same method for both).

Most probably most of casinos could travel back in time when these were not requested at all and nobody asked after them, extra work and losing some big playes who don't want to get involved to process or at some point don't want to show their finances further and there still are some questions open, you can't really stop it half way if you are not satisfied what provided.
 
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