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dealer wins

Meister Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Location
London the sh$thole
Well this thread has put me off ever depositing here again sadly. Gambling at online casinos makes you wonder if you do hit that once in a lifetime dream hit, what shit awaits you and will you even get paid?

No wonder its a dying industry, so depressing.
 
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Sasukdcf

Full Member
PABnorogue
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Location
Norwich
Here’s an idea if the U.K. casinos are so much hassle you can always play on the non licence sites then when cash out time comes around u really will have something to fucking moan about.
That’s harsh.... despite it being safer at a UK casino ( albeit based in Malta I believe )

it’s still a joke trying to get what’s yours...

Just because there are worse places doesn’t make this a good situation....

If they blocked me depositing and playing then I would have a modicum more respect for the lengths they are going to, however as they haven’t then it seems an unnecessary hassle as in reality they don’t give a fuck where the money comes from or they wouldn’t continue to let me play would they?????
 

PMKFRUITPRO

Meister Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Location
England
Why is it ok to deposit 5 grand in the first place if they care about SOW and RG and whatever the fuck they harp on about?

Why does it become an issue when somebody wants to withdraw? Yet despite this the player is allowed to continue depositing?

It’s just horse shit and anybody even considering depositing at said casino that is a UK player must be out of their mind.
 

PMKFRUITPRO

Meister Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Location
England
We posted at the same time!! But the gist of the posts are the same.

There is no excuse for any of this nonsense.
 

souldragon

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Location
Kent,United Kingdom
The thing that as always puzzled me about Source of Wealth is that presumably rules have been laid down by the UKGC that all UK licensed casinos are obliged to follow.So you have an outfit like Casumo who want everything up to a DNA sample claiming that it is necessary under the terms of their licence. At the other end of the spectrum you have a company like Sky Vegas who never (personally speaking) ask for SOW or KYC documents and pay to a bank account in less than 24 hours.I am sure that Sky are not flouting the rules and risking a large fine so why the difference in approaches? IMO it can only be that the rules are unclear or ambiguous and every casino is putting their own interpretation on them.Shame that the UKGC doesn't address this issue rather than simply banging out new missives all the time.
 

Downsman

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Location
Kent
The thing that as always puzzled me about Source of Wealth is that presumably rules have been laid down by the UKGC that all UK licensed casinos are obliged to follow.So you have an outfit like Casumo who want everything up to a DNA sample claiming that it is necessary under the terms of their licence. At the other end of the spectrum you have a company like Sky Vegas who never (personally speaking) ask for SOW or KYC documents and pay to a bank account in less than 24 hours.I am sure that Sky are not flouting the rules and risking a large fine so why the difference in approaches? IMO it can only be that the rules are unclear or ambiguous and every casino is putting their own interpretation on them.Shame that the UKGC doesn't address this issue rather than simply banging out new missives all the time.

Like you Sky have never asked me for ID..KYC..SOW or any other nonsense, and pay instantly.
Nor have any of the other UK based casinos.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
The fines are too small for them to get hurt. They would lose more money following the regulation.
Rubbish, they do follow the regulations, they just understand the law properly. I know of cases where William Hill were asking for SoW documentation over 10 years ago.
Whats happened is, casinos outside the UK didn't think they had to follow the law and are shitting themselves in case they get fined, now that they realise they do, so they are going over the top with requests.
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
Rubbish, they do follow the regulations, they just understand the law properly. I know of cases where William Hill were asking for SoW documentation over 10 years ago.
Whats happened is, casinos outside the UK didn't think they had to follow the law and are shitting themselves in case they get fined, now that they realise they do, so they are going over the top with requests.

Yeah right.

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Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
so 10 customers slipped through in what, 80 years?
Remind me why Videoslots paid a million £ not that long ago?
Remind me which non UK based casino was the first to shit themselves and start doing ridiculous AML checks on all customers?

Same reason WH did and the rest operator that have been fined.

Exactly what I wrote first, the fines are too small for WH to care. They are not too small for L&L, VS or Casumo to care. That’s why they shit themselves Mr I Know Everything.
 

shadow123

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
midlands
I have no idea how you could launder money at a casino, all you can do is deposit and withdraw by the same
method, does not make the funds any more legitimate and is a crappy idea anyway as the transactions are
recorded and could be used as evidence.
Think using the term AML makes it sound as though criminal activity is rife in online gaming and justifies
the heavy regulation and fines.
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
I have no idea how you could launder money at a casino, all you can do is deposit and withdraw by the same
method, does not make the funds any more legitimate and is a crappy idea anyway as the transactions are
recorded and could be used as evidence.
Think using the term AML makes it sound as though criminal activity is rife in online gaming and justifies
the heavy regulation and fines.
Poker comes to mind.
Should be fairly simple moving money around there.
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
Poker comes to mind.
Should be fairly simple moving money around there.
should be no need to target slots players then.
Although I think part of this AML business is aimed at the casinos themselves, rather than just the players.
It would be so easy to set up fake accounts to launder money through a casino, or 'facilitate' the laundering of money through genuine accounts (for a brown envelope fee, of course).
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
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Location
uk
Same reason WH did and the rest operator that have been fined.

Exactly what I wrote first, the fines are too small for WH to care. They are not too small for L&L, VS or Casumo to care. That’s why they shit themselves Mr I Know Everything.
So why aren't we seeing them fined every month, if the attitude is that they don't care because the fine is so small, then it's a nice revenue stream for the UKGC every month. Few million for each, every month, a lot of money over the year. Repeated breaches would, of course, result in possible license loss or suspension, which I'm sure they would care about, but don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy.
Fact is, more non uk casinos have been hit with penalties for this type of thing than uk casinos. Fact is the main bookmakers have a lot more UK customers than the smaller non uk ones. The fact is, if they were routinely ignoring these rules, we would see a lot more cases against them.
As I say, William hill were doing SoW requests before Videoslots, Casumo and L&L were even thought about. Unfortunately the posts were on a long gone forum, but heres one from 2016.

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or if thats not old enough, how about this one from 2014

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Or 2015

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but yeah, they don't care, and thats why they don't do it, and aren't following the law at all. I don't recall seeing posts anywhere about SoW for AML purposes before about 2018 for any non uk based casino, and certainly not as far back as 2014. It was only after the penalties started to be dished out, some casinos started blanket sending them as they don't have a clue how to handle it.
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
So why aren't we seeing them fined every month, if the attitude is that they don't care because the fine is so small, then it's a nice revenue stream for the UKGC every month. Few million for each, every month, a lot of money over the year. Repeated breaches would, of course, result in possible license loss or suspension, which I'm sure they would care about, but don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy.
Fact is, more non uk casinos have been hit with penalties for this type of thing than uk casinos. Fact is the main bookmakers have a lot more UK customers than the smaller non uk ones. The fact is, if they were routinely ignoring these rules, we would see a lot more cases against them.
As I say, William hill were doing SoW requests before Videoslots, Casumo and L&L were even thought about. Unfortunately the posts were on a long gone forum, but heres one from 2016.

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or if thats not old enough, how about this one from 2014

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Or 2015

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but yeah, they don't care, and thats why they don't do it, and aren't following the law at all. I don't recall seeing posts anywhere about SoW for AML purposes before about 2018 for any non uk based casino, and certainly not as far back as 2014. It was only after the penalties started to be dished out, some casinos started blanket sending them as they don't have a clue how to handle it.

Operators in Malta didn’t need to do SOW until October 2016. Operators based in Uk had to do it before. Even though both had UKGC license.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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uk
Operators in Malta didn’t need to do SOW until October 2016. Operators based in Uk had to do it before. Even though both had UKGC license.
There were no anti money laundering laws in Malta (or the EU) before October 2016 that casinos had to adhere to? Can you find any posts from pre-2017 of casinos doing AML checks? I've just searched for half a dozen big names who were operating back then and can't find any evidence they were doing them back then?
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
There were no anti money laundering laws in Malta (or the EU) before October 2016 that casinos had to adhere to? Can you find any posts from pre-2017 of casinos doing AML checks? I've just searched for half a dozen big names who were operating back then and can't find any evidence they were doing them back then?

Before 2016 with UKGC license, the AML regulation was local where company was based, so if you where based in Malta you had to follow Maltese AML laws. That changed with the changes of AML 4th directive and from October 2016 all UKGC licensees had to follow UK law. Before EUs 4th directive online casinos was not considered as a financial service in most countries in EU and didn’t need to do SOW checks.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
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uk
Before 2016 with UKGC license, the AML regulation was local where company was based, so if you where based in Malta you had to follow Maltese AML laws. That changed with the changes of AML 4th directive and from October 2016 all UKGC licensees had to follow UK law. Before EUs 4th directive online casinos was not considered as a financial service in most countries in EU and didn’t need to do SOW checks.
Ah right. I still haven't seen any evidence any / all Matla based casinos were doing AML checks back in 2016 though, (have only had a quick google though) and can't really find anything showing they were until 2018, which goes to show they ignored the rules until it suited them, ie, when the UKGC started giving them quite large penalties.
In the current environment, I can pretty much guarantee my deposit levels at Videoslots and Casumo back then (early 2018), would have triggered an AML request.
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
Ah right. I still haven't seen any evidence any / all Matla based casinos were doing AML checks back in 2016 though, (have only had a quick google though) and can't really find anything showing they were until 2018, which goes to show they ignored the rules until it suited them, ie, when the UKGC started giving them quite large penalties.
In the current environment, I can pretty much guarantee my deposit levels at Videoslots and Casumo back then (early 2018), would have triggered an AML request.

They where given 2 months heads up. Information about the change went out aug 2016. No one manage to set it up that quickly and UKGC stormed in and fined everyone. All operators started to act in panic as they where scared and tried to build systems, set up protocols and risk based approaches. Plus hiring all required staff. Everything got a mess.
They new rules in Malta was to go live 2018 and most operators had planned for that date, little did they know that UKGC would change the rules from local to uk with a 2 months time frame.
It takes about 12 to 24 months to set up proper systems so 2018 is where the early ones got ready, but of course it was already too late.
 

colinsunderland

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uk
Forgive me for being a little cynical. but it takes 2 years to put a system in place for it, which, being honest, isn't much different to the responsible gaming systems all casinos should have had in place by then, and the end of the 2 year period that casinos managed to adhere to, just so happened to coincide with the point where the UKGC started warning casinos and giving penalties for AML breaches? Someone less trusting might look at that and think, in fact, casinos only implemented those systems at the very last minute because they had to and knew large financial penalties were on the way, and thought if they did them just before the UKGC made their ruling, it might help them, maybe meaning they could suggest voluntarily paying a sum in lieu of an official penalty.
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
Forgive me for being a little cynical. but it takes 2 years to put a system in place for it, which, being honest, isn't much different to the responsible gaming systems all casinos should have had in place by then, and the end of the 2 year period that casinos managed to adhere to, just so happened to coincide with the point where the UKGC started warning casinos and giving penalties for AML breaches? Someone less trusting might look at that and think, in fact, casinos only implemented those systems at the very last minute because they had to and knew large financial penalties were on the way, and thought if they did them just before the UKGC made their ruling, it might help them, maybe meaning they could suggest voluntarily paying a sum in lieu of an official penalty.

Yes it takes 12 to 24 months on average to set up proper systems, hire right staff and get compliance fully functional.

A ukgc investigation takes 1 to 3 years before it normally reach public eye.

There is a lot of difference between AML and RG.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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MM
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uk
Yes it takes 12 to 24 months on average to set up proper systems, hire right staff and get compliance fully functional.

A ukgc investigation takes 1 to 3 years before it normally reach public eye.

There is a lot of difference between AML and RG.
And yet Videoslots initial system was to bulk email all or most their customer base requesting documents. Not sure how setting up a bulk email system, that was already in place, takes 2 years.
 
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