- Joined
- Oct 18, 2007
- Location
- Netherlands
Is there a Dutch > English translator needed or is it already settled?
Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged).
- Thread starter BBKPoker
- Start date
- Joined
- May 13, 2006
- Location
- Europe
realy nothing new in the dutch text
no translation needed
no translation needed
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
I have played with two accounts that have been accused of being related to AP founders years ago. Although there is nothing fishy from what I have records of you can be sure the insiders have been playing in these games for years.
Also thank you to all that have thanked me for the time out into this. Much of it was simply reporting what was found but I was able to help some since I have first hand knowledge of AP's operations. Also their spam helped hang them. They created several spam accounts at 2+2 using emails that were eventually linked to AP/KGC IP's and AP insider owned domains as well as emails that helped tie it all together. Most of my help came from chasing those leads down since I have been all over their disgusting spam at 2+2 all year. It's nice to know spammers left evidence that eventually helped break this investigation and link accounts to current and former AP insiders. I am finally happy that Absolute Poker has been spamming and shilling 2+2 for a year.
These same spammers are several of the same insiders accused of all this cheating and they helped us catch them.Really the thanks go out to JoseM, Nat, Marco and Adanthar. They helped discover and break down that 65,000 + line spreadsheet into something we could all understand. Without that none of this would have been possible.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
'Absolute Poker on Friday morning admitted an "internal breach" following accusations from the online poker community that a company "employee" had been able to see other players whole cards.
An official from the company admitted the breach and that Absolute had only uncovered who the culprit was Thursday afternoon.'
They wouldn't try to pin it on whoever sent the Excel file out, would they?
An official from the company admitted the breach and that Absolute had only uncovered who the culprit was Thursday afternoon.'
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
They wouldn't try to pin it on whoever sent the Excel file out, would they?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
Hmmm. It worked for me, but much slower than the first time. Here is the full text:
'Absolute Poker on Friday morning admitted an "internal breach" following accusations from the online poker community that a company "employee" had been able to see other players whole cards.
An official from the company admitted the breach and that Absolute had only uncovered who the culprit was Thursday afternoon.
"Players who were affected by this unfortunately situation will be paid in full," the official told Gambling911.com. "Furthermore, a third party investigation has already gotten underway and we will be inviting anyone from the online poker community who wants to take part in this investigation as a means of ensuring how committed we are to getting this matter resolved."
No management personnel were involved in this incident, the company official relayed.
"The person in question knew the internal system at Absolute Poker intimately. We want to ensure everybody that no person can hack into our system from the outside."
Absolute Poker is working diligently to have this matter resolved.
"We need to prove to the online poker community that this can never happen again," the official said.
A company statement sent out to the public was expected by late afternoon Friday.
----
Christopher Costigan, Gambling911.com Publisher
Originally published October 19, 2007 10:59 am ET'
'Absolute Poker on Friday morning admitted an "internal breach" following accusations from the online poker community that a company "employee" had been able to see other players whole cards.
An official from the company admitted the breach and that Absolute had only uncovered who the culprit was Thursday afternoon.
"Players who were affected by this unfortunately situation will be paid in full," the official told Gambling911.com. "Furthermore, a third party investigation has already gotten underway and we will be inviting anyone from the online poker community who wants to take part in this investigation as a means of ensuring how committed we are to getting this matter resolved."
No management personnel were involved in this incident, the company official relayed.
"The person in question knew the internal system at Absolute Poker intimately. We want to ensure everybody that no person can hack into our system from the outside."
Absolute Poker is working diligently to have this matter resolved.
"We need to prove to the online poker community that this can never happen again," the official said.
A company statement sent out to the public was expected by late afternoon Friday.
----
Christopher Costigan, Gambling911.com Publisher
Originally published October 19, 2007 10:59 am ET'
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2005
- Location
- ....
Two questions:
1) Have you ever played blackjack at English Harbour?
2) How would you like your bug, medium-well?
Just kidding. I've never played at AP so I can't say which game is "crookeder".
Interestingly, there is a Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) between English Harbour and Nine.com. Or at least there was at one time. Supposedly Leisure and Gaming Plc handed off their properties accepting US business to a "private group" in 2006.
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
How does one get involved? The reason I ask is because this smells like a big pile of........
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
or- Joined
- May 11, 2006
- Location
- North of Antarctica
There's something else newsworthy hidden in that MSNBC article - the author seems to imply that there are laws in Costa Rica!
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
There's something else newsworthy hidden in that MSNBC article - the author seems to imply that there are laws in Costa Rica!
So a month ago AP says nothing happened, then a month later admits there was some chip dumping, now they claim an insider showed them up. They claim the hacker never intended to cash out, why dump all those chips they have already admitted to happening? If AP had not been busted out they would have kept this money forever, that makes them in on it even if this BS is true.
The whole thing is absurd.
- Joined
- May 11, 2006
- Location
- North of Antarctica
You made some good points there.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Location
- FL
This is literally a geek trying to prove to senior management that they were wrong and he took it too far, he said.
a geek come on cant they do better then that??
I think that the reasons this got handled the way that it has, with a happy ending, is because the overwhelming majority of people in the industry want things to be run in a fair and honest way, said Small of Pocketfives.com. There is a perception that a lot of people in the industry are thieves, but thats not the case for the most part. When something like this happens, the rest of the people, as soon as they catch wind of it band together and look for ways to pool information and bring people down who have done harm to them.
Happy Ending for who??
a geek come on cant they do better then that??
I think that the reasons this got handled the way that it has, with a happy ending, is because the overwhelming majority of people in the industry want things to be run in a fair and honest way, said Small of Pocketfives.com. There is a perception that a lot of people in the industry are thieves, but thats not the case for the most part. When something like this happens, the rest of the people, as soon as they catch wind of it band together and look for ways to pool information and bring people down who have done harm to them.
Happy Ending for who??
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2004
- Location
- Up$hitCreek
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
- Joined
- May 11, 2006
- Location
- North of Antarctica
I haven't checked the poker forums yet but has AP actually made the official statement yet?
I see nothing on their home page about it, but their testimonials page still gives the impression that everything is A-okay:
I see nothing on their home page about it, but their testimonials page still gives the impression that everything is A-okay:
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2005
- Location
- UK
what's nine.com go to do with anything?
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2005
- Location
- UK
This looks like another English Harbour to be honest. Quick cover-up, come up with any excuse that vaguely fits and carry on as if nothing happened:
Yeah right. Just for fun.
No explanation of the chip dumping.
Yeah right. Just for fun.
No explanation of the chip dumping.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
I believe there was a link reported in a thread somewhere between somebody possibly implicated in the Absolute mess (AJ Green, was it?) and nine.com. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2005
- Location
- ....
Allegedly, "Potripper", the primary account in question was registered to an executive at nine.com. This is early information though, and lacks a verifiable source.
AJ Green was the name given as the account holder.
Please create fora for this.
Widely distributed by Absolute Poker:
"Dear valued player,
Absolute Poker has identified an internal security breach that compromised our systems for a limited period of time. The cause of the breach has been determined and completely resolved. In addition, all necessary resources, both internal and external, have been engaged to ensure this does not happen again. Our investigation is not fully concluded, and we wish to thank the extended poker community for any and all assistance related to the matter.
Game integrity has always and continues to be of the utmost importance at Absolute Poker. The Management of Absolute Poker is appalled by these findings, and is committed to our players and to the integrity of our site and the online poker industry.
All players affected by the security breach will be identified during the audit process that has been initiated and all funds, including interest, will be returned. Absolute Poker would like to apologize for the recent events and is committed to diligently working with outside security firms, auditing firms, the extended poker community and the Kahnawake Gaming Commission to ensure the situation is entirely resolved.
A comprehensive statement will be forthcoming shortly providing more details of the situation."
Following up on this, according to 911, Absolute has denied any involvement by Scott Tomm, but has thrown more light on the mysterious xls file, which was apparently sent out by a staffer through sheer laziness.
Quote:
An employee responsible for sending out the so-called "smoking gun" spread sheet with confidential client information (as well as the server info of the suspect players leading to Absolute's own server) did so out of "laziness".
"Instead of looking up specific information that had been requested, he could not find this information and simply shot the whole spread sheet to a customer," we were told by an executive at Absolute.
That [unnamed] employee was terminated and Absolute Poker is working to ensure that such an instance never happens again.
Information launched to the customer could potentially have been changed, according to management, though this is something that cannot be ascertained at this juncture in time.
Another important bit of information is the relationship to one-time partner in Absolute, Scott Tomm, and his role (or nonrole) in the "breach".
"Scott Tomm had no involvement in this matter," the representative said, adding that the former Absolute exec could have been "maliciously implicated". Unquote
Does anyone else catch a whiff of red herrings or a variety of escape routes being prepared here?
"Dear valued player,
Absolute Poker has identified an internal security breach that compromised our systems for a limited period of time. The cause of the breach has been determined and completely resolved. In addition, all necessary resources, both internal and external, have been engaged to ensure this does not happen again. Our investigation is not fully concluded, and we wish to thank the extended poker community for any and all assistance related to the matter.
Game integrity has always and continues to be of the utmost importance at Absolute Poker. The Management of Absolute Poker is appalled by these findings, and is committed to our players and to the integrity of our site and the online poker industry.
All players affected by the security breach will be identified during the audit process that has been initiated and all funds, including interest, will be returned. Absolute Poker would like to apologize for the recent events and is committed to diligently working with outside security firms, auditing firms, the extended poker community and the Kahnawake Gaming Commission to ensure the situation is entirely resolved.
A comprehensive statement will be forthcoming shortly providing more details of the situation."
Following up on this, according to 911, Absolute has denied any involvement by Scott Tomm, but has thrown more light on the mysterious xls file, which was apparently sent out by a staffer through sheer laziness.
Quote:
An employee responsible for sending out the so-called "smoking gun" spread sheet with confidential client information (as well as the server info of the suspect players leading to Absolute's own server) did so out of "laziness".
"Instead of looking up specific information that had been requested, he could not find this information and simply shot the whole spread sheet to a customer," we were told by an executive at Absolute.
That [unnamed] employee was terminated and Absolute Poker is working to ensure that such an instance never happens again.
Information launched to the customer could potentially have been changed, according to management, though this is something that cannot be ascertained at this juncture in time.
Another important bit of information is the relationship to one-time partner in Absolute, Scott Tomm, and his role (or nonrole) in the "breach".
"Scott Tomm had no involvement in this matter," the representative said, adding that the former Absolute exec could have been "maliciously implicated". Unquote
Does anyone else catch a whiff of red herrings or a variety of escape routes being prepared here?
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Location
- So Cal...Antelope Valley
well i for one haven't seen any proof yet and untill there is and anyone can prove to me and lotso that ap ever did anything wrong i think everyone should just back off and let them make an honest living like the rest of us
Of course we also have claims made to MSN.com by yet another anonymous AP spokesman that there was a mysterious and so far unidentified hacker involved who had detailed knowledge of the AP systems, seems to have been in-house and went too far in trying to prove a point to the management.....
Lots of different routes being laid out here, methinks LOL.
Lots of different routes being laid out here, methinks LOL.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
'Information launched to the customer could potentially have been changed, according to management, though this is something that cannot be ascertained at this juncture in time.'
lol. They still have the spreadsheet, in its original form, or the data from which it was generated. Even if they don't have a copy of the spreadsheet that is now being circulated, they can see the information that has been taken from it being discussed. Yet they can't yet tell whether they are the same. Or are they trying to say that the lazy employee went to the trouble of altering the spreadsheet? Or the data on their system?
lol. They still have the spreadsheet, in its original form, or the data from which it was generated. Even if they don't have a copy of the spreadsheet that is now being circulated, they can see the information that has been taken from it being discussed. Yet they can't yet tell whether they are the same. Or are they trying to say that the lazy employee went to the trouble of altering the spreadsheet? Or the data on their system?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2004
- Location
- Up$hitCreek
Let see how my psychic powers are doing with this Absolute mess:
I foresee a statement that goes something like this... we had a bad employee that (a) wanted to prove the system could be hacked or, (b) wanted to embarrass and damage the poker room's reputation; this current problem doesn't prove same type of cheating has been going on for ages; said employee is dismissed; gaping hole is patched/plugged/remedied; pay off a few players; everything's peachy keen, move along, nothing to see here.
I also believe that these 'semi' statements and off the record employee statements to the press are 'feelers'. They want to gauge how much players will tolerate, accept, swallow.
I sincerely hope this is merely my paranoia running rampant, and that I am waaaay wrong.
**********
Edit:
Just found this.....
I foresee a statement that goes something like this... we had a bad employee that (a) wanted to prove the system could be hacked or, (b) wanted to embarrass and damage the poker room's reputation; this current problem doesn't prove same type of cheating has been going on for ages; said employee is dismissed; gaping hole is patched/plugged/remedied; pay off a few players; everything's peachy keen, move along, nothing to see here.
I also believe that these 'semi' statements and off the record employee statements to the press are 'feelers'. They want to gauge how much players will tolerate, accept, swallow.
I sincerely hope this is merely my paranoia running rampant, and that I am waaaay wrong.
**********
Edit:
Just found this.....
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
I think your analysis is spot on, Mousey. They are reading all the threads on all the sites and trying to work out what they can get away with, and what the counter-arguments are going to be to anything they say, before they actually go as far as to say it officially.
I also think it's completely futile. I don't see any argument that they can make, or anything that they can say, that will get them out of this.
Having said that, people will still play there. Some sites will still accept their advertising money, and will continue to recommend them on that basis. And people will continue to play. But I don't see how they can get away from being considered a rogue site. Not that it's up to me, but I just can't.
I also think it's completely futile. I don't see any argument that they can make, or anything that they can say, that will get them out of this.
Having said that, people will still play there. Some sites will still accept their advertising money, and will continue to recommend them on that basis. And people will continue to play. But I don't see how they can get away from being considered a rogue site. Not that it's up to me, but I just can't.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
And thanks for the link, Mousey, which reveals that they are working from the original .xls document that was leaked. Presumably this is a fresh install of excel, since they don't run excel at all. We were told this by lots0, I believe, who was told this by somebody who works there, but they are using the original .xls document that was leaked. They can't decide whether it has been doctored yet, but they clearly have it in their possession as they are working from it.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Location
- So Cal...Antelope Valley
i'm really glad no one took my earlier post seriously as it was made tongue in cheek...thought someone was gonna freak out over such blatantly blind perspective lol
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
According to Adanthar and Nat a statement from AP will come in the morning implicating current or former senior employees. Obviously their "Geek did it just to frame Scott Tom" isn't going to fly and they know it. Hopefully this gets us somewhere.
It looks as if Absolute Poker is using 911 as its main medium for damage control, with a stream of comments addressing various aspects of the crisis and stressing the "Scott Tomm not involved; an in-house hacker; business unaffected by the incident; we don't need to cheat, we make so much money; hacking 'common' in Costa Rican gambling firms etc etc etc
"Scott Tom is one of the original founders. He has played on the site but is no longer legally involved," a spokesperson for Absolute Poker told Gambling911.com."
and
"Hacking is an all too common practice among skilled tech employees of Costa Rican online gambling establishments and rarely is it done to be malicious.
"This employee wanted to prove to us he could do this (see the whole [sic]cards)," a Senior Manager of Absolute Poker conveyed to Gambling911.com."
and
"Like with most US-facing online gambling companies, few if any of the actual principals involved are willing to show their faces or use their real names out of fear they will become targets of US Federal and State investigations into "illegal web gambling". Calvin Ayre, the high profile founder of Bodog.com, has recently shown up on one such list, Gambling911.com learned this week."
and
"Still, Absolute Poker contends that management - either current or former - would have any reason to engage in such criminal activity.
"Absolute Poker takes in so much money, why would any of the owners risk damaging such a successful business by cheating?" the rep points out.
The representative also eased concerns over Absolute Poker potentially having a "run of the bank" as a result of this crisis.
"It's business as usual and payouts are not being delayed in the least."
And it appears that the $500 largesse handed out to AP tournament players is a gesture to compensate their private information being leaked at Absolute Poker in this mess:
"Of major concern to Absolute Poker was the fact that an excel sheet containing confidential customer information had been sent out by an "irresponsible" employee.
"By Saturday, Absolute had started calling everyone in the POTRIPPER tournament and giving them $500 for accidentally releasing their personal information according to a report filed at PocketFives.com."
"Scott Tom is one of the original founders. He has played on the site but is no longer legally involved," a spokesperson for Absolute Poker told Gambling911.com."
and
"Hacking is an all too common practice among skilled tech employees of Costa Rican online gambling establishments and rarely is it done to be malicious.
"This employee wanted to prove to us he could do this (see the whole [sic]cards)," a Senior Manager of Absolute Poker conveyed to Gambling911.com."
and
"Like with most US-facing online gambling companies, few if any of the actual principals involved are willing to show their faces or use their real names out of fear they will become targets of US Federal and State investigations into "illegal web gambling". Calvin Ayre, the high profile founder of Bodog.com, has recently shown up on one such list, Gambling911.com learned this week."
and
"Still, Absolute Poker contends that management - either current or former - would have any reason to engage in such criminal activity.
"Absolute Poker takes in so much money, why would any of the owners risk damaging such a successful business by cheating?" the rep points out.
The representative also eased concerns over Absolute Poker potentially having a "run of the bank" as a result of this crisis.
"It's business as usual and payouts are not being delayed in the least."
And it appears that the $500 largesse handed out to AP tournament players is a gesture to compensate their private information being leaked at Absolute Poker in this mess:
"Of major concern to Absolute Poker was the fact that an excel sheet containing confidential customer information had been sent out by an "irresponsible" employee.
"By Saturday, Absolute had started calling everyone in the POTRIPPER tournament and giving them $500 for accidentally releasing their personal information according to a report filed at PocketFives.com."
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2004
- Location
- Up$hitCreek
FOFLMAO.... this should instill confidence in players! Makes me feel all better...
Edit: Just found the following.....
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
:
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
:And...
****
Personal observation/opinion... AP has gone from being totally mum to positively manic with verbal tidbits and comments popping up several times a day... these last couple of days, they can't seem to shut up.
It is not without purpose.Edit#2:
Guess who just joined the forum today? Absolutepoker4u
Player? Poker room rep?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Location
- USA
To address one of the theories put out by AP
One of the theories/statements floated by AP seems to be that a programmer/employee wanted to prove that their system was vulnerable, and had no intention of profiting from this action. If that was true, why did it take so long for this to be discovered. Wouldn't the alleged culprit had EMailed management the day after the infamous tournament and said something like "See, I told you so, I fixed this tournament by exploiting the vulnerability you claimed didnt exist. Ive proved my point" If they didnt want to implicate themselves, Im sure they could have found an anonymous way to communicate the same message.
If this had really been what happened, they would have known about it relatively quickly. It does not speak well that they even attempted to float that theory.
One of the theories/statements floated by AP seems to be that a programmer/employee wanted to prove that their system was vulnerable, and had no intention of profiting from this action. If that was true, why did it take so long for this to be discovered. Wouldn't the alleged culprit had EMailed management the day after the infamous tournament and said something like "See, I told you so, I fixed this tournament by exploiting the vulnerability you claimed didnt exist. Ive proved my point" If they didnt want to implicate themselves, Im sure they could have found an anonymous way to communicate the same message.
If this had really been what happened, they would have known about it relatively quickly. It does not speak well that they even attempted to float that theory.
Excellent points, Keyser.
I guess we have to be reminded every now and again that the owners of establishments like Absolute Poker are not necessarily the sharpest knives in the drawer!!
This story floated by AP of an employee risking the poker room's entire credibility in order to "prove a point" to management looks more outrageous by the moment.
I guess we have to be reminded every now and again that the owners of establishments like Absolute Poker are not necessarily the sharpest knives in the drawer!!
This story floated by AP of an employee risking the poker room's entire credibility in order to "prove a point" to management looks more outrageous by the moment.
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
It really makes their security department look Mickey Mouse.
BTW here is their statement today.
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
It's long but vague. It does not give us any new info as far as I am concerned.
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
From the release:
I'm guessing this means spyware got downloaded during an update? This seems to indicate a denial of the super user theory so this is the only thing that makes sense. If you have AP on your computer I guess it is safe to say you have spyware unless I have misunderstood.
I'm guessing this means spyware got downloaded during an update? This seems to indicate a denial of the super user theory so this is the only thing that makes sense. If you have AP on your computer I guess it is safe to say you have spyware unless I have misunderstood.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2004
- Location
- Up$hitCreek
That's what it sounds like to me, Pokeraddict... It would be nice if they'd tell players what files/worms/trojans we should be looking for.
AP seems to say a lot without really saying much that's specific, don't they?And what does this mean?
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
I guess it means that they do not want to publicly call out the cheats. It's all obviously BS. This post at 2+2 really breaks up their statement well.
Especially the "AP has not been more forthcoming in providing a timely or comprehensive explanation ".
If players have been infected with a virus AP needs to tell us what the virus is called and what may have been compromised. Obviously they can't since the statement is crap.
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
Especially the "AP has not been more forthcoming in providing a timely or comprehensive explanation ".
If players have been infected with a virus AP needs to tell us what the virus is called and what may have been compromised. Obviously they can't since the statement is crap.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
According to the latest statement, if I understand it correctly, people who use AP now have malware on their computers? Is that right? How difficult would it be to show that this is not true? It certainly sounds like more lies to me.
If people who currently run AP software log on to the site, is their software updated? Otherwise, how can the hole be fixed? The implication if your software is not updated would be that you still have malicious programs on your computer sending out your hole cards - even if nobody is listening at the other end at the moment. How can that be satisfactory?
EDIT: Or there would have to be a backdoor still there - even worse, perhaps. I'm no expert on computer security, but how can the hole be fixed without an update of the client software? Has there been one?
If people who currently run AP software log on to the site, is their software updated? Otherwise, how can the hole be fixed? The implication if your software is not updated would be that you still have malicious programs on your computer sending out your hole cards - even if nobody is listening at the other end at the moment. How can that be satisfactory?
EDIT: Or there would have to be a backdoor still there - even worse, perhaps. I'm no expert on computer security, but how can the hole be fixed without an update of the client software? Has there been one?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2007
- Location
- USA
Has Anyone Checked Other Hand Histories AP Sent?
I requested from AP some hand histories when this story broke so that I would have some evidence in case I was entitled to a refund. I played some very high limit at AP in the months of July after I won a tournament. Anyway in the hand histories which AP sent me are e-mail address as well as IP address of numerous members. Furthermore does anyone have a list of all the cheating accounts exposed as I think I did play against several of them in the month of July.
Thank You
I requested from AP some hand histories when this story broke so that I would have some evidence in case I was entitled to a refund. I played some very high limit at AP in the months of July after I won a tournament. Anyway in the hand histories which AP sent me are e-mail address as well as IP address of numerous members. Furthermore does anyone have a list of all the cheating accounts exposed as I think I did play against several of them in the month of July.
Thank You
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
The accounts the detectives have come up with are Graycat (might have been Greycat), Doubledrag, Steamroller, Potripper and Payup. I'm not sure if Payup had the evidence the other 4 have had against them. AP has admitted there are other accounts that cheated that have yet to be publicly exposed as well.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2004
- Location
- Up$hitCreek
Any indication (independent of AP's assertions) as to how long this may have been going on?
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2006
- Location
- US
Everyone needs to put their hip waders on in order to wade through the BS that AP is putting out about what REALLY happened........don't ya think?
Here's mine.
Here's mine.
- Here's the links to some photo's....if already posted, my apologies.
Brent Douglas Beckley (Head of Payments & Fraud) - Third guy from left on back row
Last guy on the right in back is Scott Phillip Tom
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
- AJ Green aka AJ aka Allan J. Grimard
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
- Scott Phillip Tom is the big boss at AP, but from a documentary perspective, he is a consultant.
Any major decision that has to be made has to be made by him.
He don't just work for AP, he is in 'charge' (CEO)
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
Photo's taken at Oscar Hilt Tatum (CFO) wedding picture
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2007
- Location
- USA
Nobody responded to me. I was sent hand histories from some play I had which also has members personal information within in. I wrote to AP about this but I doubt I will get a response. This is a very serious violation of privacy. I have a feeling that all hand histories, or at least a majority of them were sent with personal information within them.
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
$500 for everybody in your hh's! That's what AP did for the $1050 MTT they leaked. It might be something to PM Adanthar or Nat about.
BTW anybody that has PM'd me in the last 18 hours or so I will need some extra time to respond, have to run.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2006
- Location
- cyberspace
Definitely PM "N 82 50 24" or "adanthar" on twoplustwo.com about this, in case they don't follow this thread.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2006
- Location
- US
I found this article, it goes into some things that I haven't seen mentioned in any of the other numerous news articles. Here is the link for the article
October-22-2007,
For the Future of Online Gambling Absolute Poker Must Satisfy it's Critics...By Hartley Henderson
The online poker community has been shocked by allegations of cheating in a poker tournament at the site Absolutepoker.com a little while ago. The concern is that if this could happen once, what safeguards are in place to ensure it can't happen more often? Here is the condensed notes version of what happened.
- After losing a $500 buy-in tournament at AbsolutePoker.com, the second placed player suspected that the winner of the tournament who went under the screen name "Potripper" was cheating. The player emailed the company and a clerk from Absolute Poker sent him an Excel spreadsheet which listed the play of every hand from every table at that tournament as well as noting all observers of the tournament.
- Upon sharing the spreadsheet with others at a poker forum, poker and database experts noted some very unusual play by Potripper. In the first 2 hands of the tournament Potripper folded pre-flop, but then after an observer came into the room, Potripper never folded another hand for the next 20 minutes. This action led the experts to believe the "observer" was somehow working with Potripper.
- Examining play during that 20 minutes, it was found Potripper was playing very unconventionally, raising with garbage and thus forcing players that were well ahead in the hand to fold. At the same time he would often fold good hands for no reason including one hand where he openly folded KK when another player had AA. This play was extremely suspicious and had almost everyone who looked at the playing style believing that Potripper could actually see the hole cards of others and was playing accordingly.
- Poker forums picked up on the possible cheating and began looking further into the accounts of observers and Potripper himself. Potripper turned out to be AJ Green, a former director of Absolute Poker and a current director of Nine.com. As well, one of the observers of the game is a man named Scott Tom who was Absolute Poker's president until 2005 and also a very close friend of AJ Green. Scott Tom is also believed to be associated with Absolute Poker today and the IP address of his account belongs to riveieraltd.com, which is on the Kahnawake reserve outside Montreal where Absolute Poker's servers are located. In fact several of those in question had accounts with the rivieraltd.com domain name.
For the sake of this article it is sufficient to stop the extended details at this point, but it must be noted that Absolute Poker went into denial mode and did everything in its power to make the story go away, including removing the DNS information for rivieraltd.com, firing the clerk that sent the Excel spreadsheet and constantly refusing to acknowledge any wrongdoing. More and more evidence came up implicating the company, and after national media coverage of the events (including articles written in the New York Times and Houston Chronicle), the company admitted its software was compromised and would be issuing payouts to the legitimate winners and refunding anyone who was affected by the game. They also stated they will conduct an internal investigation and deal with those that were implicated in the apparent scam.
Clearly Absolute Poker hopes that this will be the end of the incident and it will be business as usual, but the online gambling community must assure that it doesn't end there. From the onset of internet wagering there has been concern about the legitimacy of games. In fact, that was the main concern expressed by John Kyl when he introduced the first internet prohibition bill in 1997. Software providers and online wagering websites assured the public and the government that Tom Foolery with the software was impossible. They provided audited reports which demonstrated all games were random and it seemed to sway many. While the U.S. government seems determined to keep online gambling illegal, a groundswell has developed that could provide hope for the future of the industry and particularly for poker. However, that support could end abruptly if there is any proof that online gambling's legitimacy can be compromised. It is thus imperative that Absolute Poker not look at this as an isolated situation and try only to deal with the individuals that apparently cheated. Instead, Absolute Poker, in conjunction with the software provider, must identify how and why the incident could occur in the first place to prove to the public that online gambling is not fixed. Some of the questions that must be asked are as follows:
- If people from the company look at all the cards throughout the tournaments, is that a good idea? Perhaps hands should only be reviewable once the tournament is complete. This would eliminate any concerns and make it impossible for others at the company that are monitoring the games to work with players. If, on the other hand, cards must be observed by staff on a continuous basis, what safeguards can be put into play to make it virtually impossible for shenanigans to occur?
- What background checks are done on staff, particularly those in charge of security? A report from 2 plus 2 poker forum suggested that a security manager at a companion site was involved in other suspect games. Safeguards must be put into place to make sure that everyone is monitored on a regular basis, including staff.
- What can the company do to address all stated concerns from players and improve customer service? Clearly if the company tried to address the situation from the outset rather than deflecting blame they could have stopped the negative press in its tracks. As well, the company has to look at internal policies.
- Lastly the company must determine what punishment it is willing to level on Green and Tom if it is revealed that they were indeed the scammers. Public perception in this case will be everything, and if these individuals (managers or not) are able to get away with a scam, it will bring the legitimacy of Absolute Poker along with all other poker sites into question.
Furthermore, the Mohawks of Kahnawake must look at their policy that determines who can set up servers on their territory and determine if more stringent rules need to be in force. The UK and Antigua have very strict rules that determine who can operate in their jurisdiction and they will disqualify any people they deem as unfit to operate. The forums have suggested that AJ Green ran internet scams prior to working for Absolute Poker. If this is indeed true then clearly more background checks of managers are necessary.
There are 2 bright spots in this ugly incident. First, there is relief in the fact that sports betting can not be compromised in the same manner as poker. Obviously sportsbook operators can leave town without paying, but most jurisdictions require the books to post up money covering all player accounts to avoid this circumstance. Regardless, games are time stamped and it is easy to determine if someone is cheating. Naturally the players themselves or others involved in the games can cheat as was witnessed with the Donaghy scandal and the Polish Open tennis tournament earlier this year, but the sportsbooks themselves can not fix games in any manner. Perhaps it is for that reason that Australia has banned online gambling for everything except sports.
The other bright spot relates to the island of Antigua. With all the licensed sportsbooks, casinos and poker rooms located in that country, there has not been one complaint of impropriety regarding the games. Antigua has been in operation offering online wagering far longer than Kahnawake and most of the sites are bigger. The country has assured authorities that its regulatory requirements are above reproach, which is one of the reasons so many companies are willing to pay hefty fees to operate there. In its fight with the United States over the U.S. withdrawal of gambling commitments, Antigua has pointed out over and over that their regulatory system is as effective as anything that can be found elsewhere, including Las Vegas. The fact that Antigua has offered online wagering for a full decade now with absolutely no complaints by the public seems to prove their point.
Online gambling was suspect from the beginning and with good reason. Why would anyone be willing to put real money on a hand of blackjack or Texas Hold 'Em when they have no idea what safeguards are there to ensure the game's legitimacy? Nevertheless, the general public put its trust in the betting sites and it seemed to pay off. Audits and other regulatory vices proved to the sceptics that the games were legitimate. Consequently, internet wagering grew to a $12 billion industry. There is still some hope that bills like those offered by Barney Frank will someday be accepted and internet wagering will be legal in all regards. However, this will never happen if there is belief the games or the operators are not on the up and up. For the sake of the entire industry it is necessary that Absolute Poker prove that this incident was a fluke and put in safeguards to ensure it can never happen again. As well, Absolute Poker must make examples of anyone involved in the scam, including managers if necessary. Not only is money at risk, but public trust of online gambling as well.
10-21-2007
Hartley Henderson
MajorWager.com
[email protected]
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
October-22-2007,
For the Future of Online Gambling Absolute Poker Must Satisfy it's Critics...By Hartley Henderson
The online poker community has been shocked by allegations of cheating in a poker tournament at the site Absolutepoker.com a little while ago. The concern is that if this could happen once, what safeguards are in place to ensure it can't happen more often? Here is the condensed notes version of what happened.
- After losing a $500 buy-in tournament at AbsolutePoker.com, the second placed player suspected that the winner of the tournament who went under the screen name "Potripper" was cheating. The player emailed the company and a clerk from Absolute Poker sent him an Excel spreadsheet which listed the play of every hand from every table at that tournament as well as noting all observers of the tournament.
- Upon sharing the spreadsheet with others at a poker forum, poker and database experts noted some very unusual play by Potripper. In the first 2 hands of the tournament Potripper folded pre-flop, but then after an observer came into the room, Potripper never folded another hand for the next 20 minutes. This action led the experts to believe the "observer" was somehow working with Potripper.
- Examining play during that 20 minutes, it was found Potripper was playing very unconventionally, raising with garbage and thus forcing players that were well ahead in the hand to fold. At the same time he would often fold good hands for no reason including one hand where he openly folded KK when another player had AA. This play was extremely suspicious and had almost everyone who looked at the playing style believing that Potripper could actually see the hole cards of others and was playing accordingly.
- Poker forums picked up on the possible cheating and began looking further into the accounts of observers and Potripper himself. Potripper turned out to be AJ Green, a former director of Absolute Poker and a current director of Nine.com. As well, one of the observers of the game is a man named Scott Tom who was Absolute Poker's president until 2005 and also a very close friend of AJ Green. Scott Tom is also believed to be associated with Absolute Poker today and the IP address of his account belongs to riveieraltd.com, which is on the Kahnawake reserve outside Montreal where Absolute Poker's servers are located. In fact several of those in question had accounts with the rivieraltd.com domain name.
For the sake of this article it is sufficient to stop the extended details at this point, but it must be noted that Absolute Poker went into denial mode and did everything in its power to make the story go away, including removing the DNS information for rivieraltd.com, firing the clerk that sent the Excel spreadsheet and constantly refusing to acknowledge any wrongdoing. More and more evidence came up implicating the company, and after national media coverage of the events (including articles written in the New York Times and Houston Chronicle), the company admitted its software was compromised and would be issuing payouts to the legitimate winners and refunding anyone who was affected by the game. They also stated they will conduct an internal investigation and deal with those that were implicated in the apparent scam.
Clearly Absolute Poker hopes that this will be the end of the incident and it will be business as usual, but the online gambling community must assure that it doesn't end there. From the onset of internet wagering there has been concern about the legitimacy of games. In fact, that was the main concern expressed by John Kyl when he introduced the first internet prohibition bill in 1997. Software providers and online wagering websites assured the public and the government that Tom Foolery with the software was impossible. They provided audited reports which demonstrated all games were random and it seemed to sway many. While the U.S. government seems determined to keep online gambling illegal, a groundswell has developed that could provide hope for the future of the industry and particularly for poker. However, that support could end abruptly if there is any proof that online gambling's legitimacy can be compromised. It is thus imperative that Absolute Poker not look at this as an isolated situation and try only to deal with the individuals that apparently cheated. Instead, Absolute Poker, in conjunction with the software provider, must identify how and why the incident could occur in the first place to prove to the public that online gambling is not fixed. Some of the questions that must be asked are as follows:
- If people from the company look at all the cards throughout the tournaments, is that a good idea? Perhaps hands should only be reviewable once the tournament is complete. This would eliminate any concerns and make it impossible for others at the company that are monitoring the games to work with players. If, on the other hand, cards must be observed by staff on a continuous basis, what safeguards can be put into play to make it virtually impossible for shenanigans to occur?
- What background checks are done on staff, particularly those in charge of security? A report from 2 plus 2 poker forum suggested that a security manager at a companion site was involved in other suspect games. Safeguards must be put into place to make sure that everyone is monitored on a regular basis, including staff.
- What can the company do to address all stated concerns from players and improve customer service? Clearly if the company tried to address the situation from the outset rather than deflecting blame they could have stopped the negative press in its tracks. As well, the company has to look at internal policies.
- Lastly the company must determine what punishment it is willing to level on Green and Tom if it is revealed that they were indeed the scammers. Public perception in this case will be everything, and if these individuals (managers or not) are able to get away with a scam, it will bring the legitimacy of Absolute Poker along with all other poker sites into question.
Furthermore, the Mohawks of Kahnawake must look at their policy that determines who can set up servers on their territory and determine if more stringent rules need to be in force. The UK and Antigua have very strict rules that determine who can operate in their jurisdiction and they will disqualify any people they deem as unfit to operate. The forums have suggested that AJ Green ran internet scams prior to working for Absolute Poker. If this is indeed true then clearly more background checks of managers are necessary.
There are 2 bright spots in this ugly incident. First, there is relief in the fact that sports betting can not be compromised in the same manner as poker. Obviously sportsbook operators can leave town without paying, but most jurisdictions require the books to post up money covering all player accounts to avoid this circumstance. Regardless, games are time stamped and it is easy to determine if someone is cheating. Naturally the players themselves or others involved in the games can cheat as was witnessed with the Donaghy scandal and the Polish Open tennis tournament earlier this year, but the sportsbooks themselves can not fix games in any manner. Perhaps it is for that reason that Australia has banned online gambling for everything except sports.
The other bright spot relates to the island of Antigua. With all the licensed sportsbooks, casinos and poker rooms located in that country, there has not been one complaint of impropriety regarding the games. Antigua has been in operation offering online wagering far longer than Kahnawake and most of the sites are bigger. The country has assured authorities that its regulatory requirements are above reproach, which is one of the reasons so many companies are willing to pay hefty fees to operate there. In its fight with the United States over the U.S. withdrawal of gambling commitments, Antigua has pointed out over and over that their regulatory system is as effective as anything that can be found elsewhere, including Las Vegas. The fact that Antigua has offered online wagering for a full decade now with absolutely no complaints by the public seems to prove their point.
Online gambling was suspect from the beginning and with good reason. Why would anyone be willing to put real money on a hand of blackjack or Texas Hold 'Em when they have no idea what safeguards are there to ensure the game's legitimacy? Nevertheless, the general public put its trust in the betting sites and it seemed to pay off. Audits and other regulatory vices proved to the sceptics that the games were legitimate. Consequently, internet wagering grew to a $12 billion industry. There is still some hope that bills like those offered by Barney Frank will someday be accepted and internet wagering will be legal in all regards. However, this will never happen if there is belief the games or the operators are not on the up and up. For the sake of the entire industry it is necessary that Absolute Poker prove that this incident was a fluke and put in safeguards to ensure it can never happen again. As well, Absolute Poker must make examples of anyone involved in the scam, including managers if necessary. Not only is money at risk, but public trust of online gambling as well.
10-21-2007
Hartley Henderson
MajorWager.com
[email protected]
Similar threads
Expired Promo
Daily Scratch'n'Catch Surprises @ Rizk Casino
