"888 has opened you an account..."

888.com has a sordid history at Casinomeister - ethically challenged Rogue Casino
Hey Rainmaker,

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I will look into this first thing when I'm back in the office on Sunday. It might have just been a technical glitch. Will update as soon as I know anything.

Have a great weekend

Rachel
 
I too got an email with a username and password for a NEW 888 account even though I have one.

I can't understand for the life of me where this company is coming from. I have stopped using my current 888 account now as this weirdness just makes me too nervous to play there. If I won without even playing a bonus they could deny payment on the grounds I have two accounts and I might get nothing.

What on earth is going on with this company?
 
Hey Rainmaker,

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I will look into this first thing when I'm back in the office on Sunday. It might have just been a technical glitch. Will update as soon as I know anything.

Have a great weekend

Rachel

This doesn't sit well with the tales of players who only have ONE account per casino, but are deemed to have "opened too many accounts at Cassava powered casinos" and thus have their winnings confiscated, despite not a word about these excessive accounts when they are LOSING in them.

That screenshot even implies that multi-accounting on the same email address is ALLOWED because it simply asks the user to supply which of the accounts they are wanting the password for, rather than prompting them to consolidate the accounts into one (along with a warning that they MUST not use more than one of these accounts).

This is "cross marketing on steroids", and if anything is a WORSENING of the much criticised situation where players get invited to sign up at every conceivable Cassava powered casinos once they have registered at one.
 
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This is what I got. Maybe it's a valid promo and they want me to open a second account???

It's very confusing and I have no idea what their intentions are.

Just to reiterate - the Username and passwords are NOT those of my existing account.
 
what about affiliates

I was going to list 888 on my livecasinodirectory.co.uk site. I have a question for Rachel888... would the players being signed up, advertised to or asked to join a sister casino... would the player stay with the affiliate if there was one, when he played at his auto sign-up casino... or a casino that he was invited to join. If a player with an affiliate joins a sister casino, I really doubt that the player would stay with the affiliate Rachel888 so this whole thing sounds bad to me but on a different level. But please set me straight.

Mac
 
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Oki, so I went "undercover" (as an average and naive player :p) and contacted 888 live help/chat.

I logged in at the casino by using one of the two accounts (both of the accounts are registered with the same e-mail) they have opened for me. This is the chat:


888.com: Hi, my name is XXXXX.. How may I help you?

888.com: Welcome to Casino-on-Net Live Chat! We are glad to be of service. Please hold a moment whilst I try to locate your Casino-on-Net account with your given email address.

(Note: I have cut out a part here where she asked me a security question)

Me: Hello. I have two accounts at Casino-On-Net. I was just wondering if this is a problem? :)

888.com: There is no problem, you can use both account without any problems

Me: Oki, so I can do deposits in both accounts without any problems? Thanks for your confirmation :)

888.com: Meanwhile, let me remind you of one of our many outgoing promotions.

888.com: Scoop you’re Double Cherry Bonus every Sunday! Every hour at Casino-on-Net is a happy hour, but every Sunday you can scoop double the fun! With our special Double Cherry Bonus Sunday is an unlimited 100% match up bonus payday! For further information please click on the link below: *link*

(Note: I have cut out some "thanks for your help" etc at the end here)

.................



This case was bad, now it is even worse. Whats up with these guys ?
 
clearing confusion

Hi Guys,

Just an update so you know I am still working on this issue.

I have requested from fraud, clear guidelines of what constitutes multiple accounts and what the penalty is for having multiple accounts.

As mentioned before if 888 has invited you to take part in a promotion your account will not be blocked.

mac-online - as an affiliate you will be paid for any player that you bring to us on your tracking links. We can speak more in depth about different brands and personalized promos, but I don't think this thread is the place for it.

Thanks,
Rachel
 
Hi Guys,

Just an update so you know I am still working on this issue.

I have requested from fraud, clear guidelines of what constitutes multiple accounts and what the penalty is for having multiple accounts.

As mentioned before if 888 has invited you to take part in a promotion your account will not be blocked.

mac-online - as an affiliate you will be paid for any player that you bring to us on your tracking links. We can speak more in depth about different brands and personalized promos, but I don't think this thread is the place for it.

Thanks,
Rachel

From that chat, it seems CS consider two accounts for the same player OK, and even offered bonuses for both, saying it's "no problem". This is already as clear as mud. Normally, it's very simple, ONE account per casino per player. When 2 (or more) are allowed it creates lack of clarity as to where the boundary lies.

For the white label brands, even ONE account per player per casino is deemed "too many", and winnings have been confiscated without redress, with the main 888 brand admitting they are "powerless" to force the white labels to pay up in these circumstances.

Players don't need this level of confusion. The fraudsters will be quick to take advantage of this lack of clarity, and innocent players will get screwed for crossing an unstated boundary (and already ARE being screwed by the white labels, who REFUSE to offer any clarification to players as to what constitutes "too many accounts with Cassava software").

The best thing is to keep it simple, ONE account per player per casino. Additional accounts that have crept in because of this marketing screw-up should be consolidated (or closed if never used by the player) to leave each player with the one account. ALL invites should be checked against current registration data before being sent out, such that no player receives a duplicate account invite.
 
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Here is a section in 888`s T&C that deals with multiple accounts:


In respect of your use of the Services, you may only have one account, for which you will register using your own actual name. You shall access the Software and use the Services only via your own account and you may never access the Software or use the Services by means of another person's account. Should you attempt to open more than one account, under your own name or under any other name, or should you attempt to use the Services by means of any other person's account, we will be entitled to immediately close all your accounts, retain all monies in such accounts and bar you from future use of the Services.
 
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It is also interesting to see their latest promo mail I got today (yes, they will send several of these per week). It only says "stian" (my name) and not any of my usernames. So if I actually wanted use this promo then I would need to check all of my accounts to find out where it is available. Or maybe both of my accounts are credited with this extra bonus for all I know (I have been offered the ordinary welcome bonus in both of the accounts).

It says in the e-mail: "Only one welcome bonus gift is permitted with this offer" and "Players who benefit from this Promotion will not be eligible to benefit from any other first deposit bonus promotions". But hey, who cares right? Twice as much "fun" with two accounts.

888 usually titles their promo with something like "last chance!! Hurry!!!". I have recieved so many of these, so I know that if I do not claim this bonus now, then they simply will send me a new "last chance" promo next week.



888messy.JPG
 
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I know I am talking to myself here at the moment, but I recieved another 2 new promo e-mails from 888 now :)rolleyes:). The interesting part is that both of them now includes usernames so I recieved one for each of my accounts in the same casino (to the same e-mail adresse).

Again it says : Players who benefit from this Promotion will not be eligible to benefit from any other first deposit bonus promotions. Offer valid for first-time depositors in Casino-on-Net only.

I have now completely lost track on how many welcome bonuses I have been offered. But I have at least been offered this: Free spins x 2 when they registered and opened my accounts, casino x 2 welcome bonus, live casino x 2 welcome bonus and the special gift "thing" in my previous post (at one or maybe both of the accounts). That makes it about 7 or 8 bonuses that I have been offered (that I remember). Maybe more, I do not know.

This is so messy. I simply can not believe that this comes from an accredited casino here at Casinomeister.


Picture from one of the two e-mails. They are both identical, but with different username.


888 more mess.JPG
 
Last edited:
Since the original issue is more-or-less ongoing I am removing the "[Resolved]" tag.
 
Hi Guys,

Just an update so you know I am still working on this issue.

I have requested from fraud, clear guidelines of what constitutes multiple accounts and what the penalty is for having multiple accounts.

As mentioned before if 888 has invited you to take part in a promotion your account will not be blocked.

mac-online - as an affiliate you will be paid for any player that you bring to us on your tracking links. We can speak more in depth about different brands and personalized promos, but I don't think this thread is the place for it.

Thanks,
Rachel

I think what Mac-online was asking - are affiliates getting credit for the cross promotion? If player Joe Blow is tagged with affiliate Jim Webby's affiliate tag, Jim Webby should get credit for any property that 888 refers Joe Blow to. That's what's happening, right?

Also, this whole cross promo is a really bad idea. Unless it is 100% bulletproof, you shouldn't be doing it. It looks pretty sloppy from here.
 
In the light of Full Tilt you have to wonder what is going on within this company. Perhaps it's a way of inflating the number of accounts they have in an attempt to show they are still growing as it's well known 888 are a possible takeover target.
 
It is getting messier by the day.

Take Stian.

888 themselves have opened TWO accounts for him, on top of any other account at another of their properties that he started with. He is literally being bombarded almost every day with offers containing "fake urgency" text such as "last chance" and "only xx hours left" in order to get him to act quickly. CS have said there is no problem with him both having and USING these offers on BOTH these accounts. The rep also says that players will be OK with this provided the accounts have been given to them legitimately by this promotion (rather than them having opened multiple accounts themselves).

Yet, the term covering accounts is quite clear, ONE account per player. Not only that, the penalty is pretty draconian as it implies that even their DEPOSITS will be confiscated if they are found out to be using more than one account, or another player's account.

Whilst the rep says players will not be punished for errors made by marketing, she is NOT CEO of the company, and can easily find this promise overruled by her bosses. She has also admitted that Cassava are pretty powerless when it comes to making white labels behave in cases where aggressive cross marketing has lead to players having what is deemed to be too many accounts with Cassava software, even though it is only one account per individual casino.

This argument was brought up in the discussions prior to them being accredited, and this cross marketing and white labelling issue formed one of the main objections to them becoming accredited. We were told that things had changed, and the "black hat" behaviour of the past had been discontinued. If anything, the cross marketing has become even WORSE that before, since accounts are now being opened for players, rather than them merely receiving "spam" invites to play at numerous Cassava portals. This is an INCREASE in "marketing aggression", and may well lead players into thinking that multi-accounting is no big deal when the OPERATOR is opening them on their behalf, and pressing them to use them all.

Given how sloppy this is, I can't see how affiliates can trust that there is NO "sloppiness" when it comes to retaining/porting their referral tags when their players have other accounts opened on their behalf by Cassava.

We could find out for sure what is going on if a specimen player cooperated with their affiliate in this situation, and offered the affiliate enough information so that their returns could be analysed to see whether the accounts opened by Cassava have been tagged correctly to reflect the original referral.

Despite this, affiliates are STILL going to be short changed. If a player originally opened their 888.com account direct (no tag), they may well open a casino-on-net and/or Reef Club via an affiliate. If Cassava open these accounts on behalf of the player, affiliates are robbed of the chance to refer these players to the other two sites. The player cannot them go via their affiliate even if they wanted to, because they would already have an untagged account created for them by Cassava, and opening a second themselves would fall foul of the rules, and neither the affiliate nor the player are likely to get paid.

If it is merely an invite, the player could choose to go via their affiliate instead. This would be a likely preference where the affiliate is one of the "reward" sites like GoneGambling or Casino Crush that want players to join participating casinos via the links on the site in order to qualify for some of the perks, or even support the continued operation of the rewards scheme.


This would even affect CM, since if a player joined 888.com via the accredited list, and then had a Reef Club opened by Cassava and sent to them, CM would possibly only get the credit for one of the accounts. If a CM member had an 888.com account that predated their joining CM, then CM would get no credit for them joining Reef Club, even though it might have been their accreditation here that made them accept their Reef Club, or possibly even got them playing at 888.com again after not having played there for some while.

I am sure affiliates in general feel that this policy of opening accounts for players and sending the details is "short changing" them for the work they have put into giving the Cassava stable exposure on their sites. It could also backfire on Cassava, as affiliates may think that the brands are unpopular, and that players do NOT join other Cassava casinos after having joined their first. They may then cut their exposure on the site, making the brand look less important than others, which in turn might put players off.
 
Thanks guys for all this info. 888 is a disgrace!!!! The whole group makes me feel sick. I will now remove everything related to them asap and also contact affiliate manager. I hope everyone else will follow me and not just think about $$$$. We all need to think about what is in the players interest!!! :cool::thumbsup:
 
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First, let me just say that I do not think that the 888 group is evil. I do not think that they deliberately are trying to trap/trick/scam their players.

The problem with 888 is how their whole organization is constructed with in-house brands and white labels. 888 as a gambling related company is quite large, but there are other casino groups who are as large or even several times larger. Most of these other groups do not have this messy player/customer-unfriendly structure.

Just look at their T&C. An average player probably do not know what a white label is. And I certainly get the feeling that even the CS at 888 has problems to understand their own T&C. And who can really blame them.

Some of the problems as I see it, is that the T&C for the whole 888 group treats every casino/brand in the group as one (you sign up with "The Company" and the players are for example only entitled to one welcome bonus within "The Company". It is all about "The Company"). But the operations department (+ those responsible for promo/advertising) clearly threats every brands as individual casinos (players are encouraged to accept several welcome bonuses, cross promotions, players are told it is OK to have several accounts etc).

Look at for example Betsson Group. Betsson Group includes casinos like Betsson, Betsafe, Casino Euro and Cherry Casino. Every casino is treated individual from each other. Players will not experience the same set of problems with the Betsson Group as within the 888 Group, simply because Betsson Group is organized as more customer/player friendly.

I think it certainly looks like there are some major communication problems within the 888 group. Their left hand obviously has no clue what their right hand is doing.

It is now two issues I hope we will get some feedback on. The first is the promo mess we have seen in this thread. Multiple accounts opened at the same casino. Multiple welcome bonuses offered. CS says it is OK to have several accounts etc. Second issue is how this practice affects the affiliates as mentioned by mac-online and Casinomeister.
 
Bumping this because I was curious as to what the final outcome was, I notice the rep was away gathering more information and since then has declined to respond, seems a bit strange.
 
Bumping this because I was curious as to what the final outcome was, I notice the rep was away gathering more information and since then has declined to respond, seems a bit strange.

Yeah, I agree. I am also curious about what happened in this case :) .
 
Sorry

Hi Guys,

Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back to you on the issue, but here is what I have to say about the issue, as it has been explained to me by our operations department.

With regards to the claims concerning multi accounting and various white labels, I would like to make it clear that we do not agree with the comments raised, and it is not a conflict of interest. The creation of these accounts is essentially a bonus offer. We are creating these accounts to provide our members with the ease of entering their new account and readily accessing any bonus that they are entitled to. It is very different to the situation whereby a single member opens multiple accounts – in the same brand, or across various websites we operate - in order to maximize the amount of bonuses they receive. There is a different intent. One is the member going against our bonus policy, and the other is us, “the company”, offering our members a cross sell bonus. This is in line with our Terms and Conditions where we state that the members can have an account in each brand that we operate.
Overall, we see that there are benefits to the members from these campaigns, and as our main goal is to provide entertainment to our clients we see this as a more than legitimate offer.


I hope this helped clear the situation a bit and answered some questions.

Regards,
Rachel
 
Hi Guys,

Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back to you on the issue, but here is what I have to say about the issue, as it has been explained to me by our operations department.

With regards to the claims concerning multi accounting and various white labels, I would like to make it clear that we do not agree with the comments raised, and it is not a conflict of interest. The creation of these accounts is essentially a bonus offer. We are creating these accounts to provide our members with the ease of entering their new account and readily accessing any bonus that they are entitled to. It is very different to the situation whereby a single member opens multiple accounts – in the same brand, or across various websites we operate - in order to maximize the amount of bonuses they receive. There is a different intent. One is the member going against our bonus policy, and the other is us, “the company”, offering our members a cross sell bonus. This is in line with our Terms and Conditions where we state that the members can have an account in each brand that we operate.
Overall, we see that there are benefits to the members from these campaigns, and as our main goal is to provide entertainment to our clients we see this as a more than legitimate offer.


I hope this helped clear the situation a bit and answered some questions.

Regards,
Rachel

It's not entirely clear.

Your term "members can have an account in each brand that we operate" is WHY players are falling into the trap of ending up with "too many accounts". There is no specific term that tells players just how many accounts with connected casinos they can have before it is deemed "too many". Once they hit this arbitrary limit, they are first informed about it when having winnings confiscated, rather than when they have opened the last account they are going to be allowed under this limit.

Since this is about giving loyal players an extra bouns by way of an invite, why not just tell them they can open an account and redeem a special "personal" bonus there. By opening the account for them, they are being denied the choice to ignore the offer, or even the choice to select an alternative skin to the one offered. Affiliates are also concerned that having directed a player to, say, 888.com; this internal policy is resulting in players being moved to different skins from which the affiliate will no longer be deriving commission. If the player had to open the account themselves, and had been directed to their original account by a good affiliate, the player is likely to visit the same affiliate site in order to get a review of the offer before taking it up.

As for cross marketing in general, players ARE being sent personal invites to sign up with new skins and claim the bonus, but when they do they are accused of "abuse". What is the difference between a personal invite to open an account and claim the bonus, and having one opened for them by 888.com? I can't see any, therefore there is the SAME level of risk in taking up an offer of a bonus at another skin regardless of the form of the cross marketing.

What we want is a GUARANTEE that any player who is invited by email cross marketing to sign up & take a bonus is NOT going to then be told they "abused" said bonus simply by signing up as invited. Currently, this IS happening, particularly with the white label brands.

I am waiting for the first complaint coming from a player who had an account opened for them, claimed the bonus, and then got accused of "abuse". This has already happened numerous times under the earlier method of cross marketing.
 
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Thanks for your reply Rachel888.

As I have presented earlier in this thread, 888 has not only opened accounts across various websites. They have even opened multiple accounts in the same casino. I simply do not believe in your explanation that this is done "with intention". I think this has been done because your operation department has lost control over this mess. To say that 888 with intention allows players to get 2-3 (or more) identical welcome bonuses at 2-3 different accounts in the same casino just shows me at what level this is.

Anyway, I do not see the point of using more time on this. I appreciate your feedback here Rachel, but this is a mess.
 
IMO this is pretty serious stuff for many reasons, not the least of which is the HUGE margin for error that could seriously and adversely affect players. Casino assurances are well and good but it's the player who will have to dig themselves out of the hole when something goes wrong. In any case given the Accred status of the casino this is definitely something Bryan needs to be aware of so I've have flagged him on Rachel's recent post. AFAIC this issue isn't done until his position on this is known.
 
888.com has a sordid history at Casinomeister - ethically challenged Rogue Casino

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