888.com online was scammed

[Casinomeister]

Changed thread title to something more appropriate.

 

[dionysus]

Gosh, I hope gramma doesnt drop it; cause I feel for anyone who has to see that women bend over

 

[BingoT]

Gosh, I hope gramma doesnt drop it; cause I feel for anyone who has to see that women bend over

 

[dionysus]

 

[smcinoz]

This. Pretty safe to assume at this point that we have a classic case of a guy using his grandma's credit card and informations to play. Like Bryan said earlier, grandma is probably in the kitchen baking pies and have no idea of what's going on here.

Thanks for losing everyone's time and good riddance.

Or worse

Norman!

 

[chayton]

Actually I was wondering if it was possible that the CC holder and whoever was playing were not even related... A lot of eldery people are targets for credit card fraud. Hope I'm wrong and that granny actually did get a cut of the $60K+ that was already paid out.

But I suppose since 888 won't discuss anything that it's all moot anyhow.

 

[maphesto]

Norman!

Unbeatable!

To topic again. Now we all of course think that the grandson (or another scumbag) is the man behind the computer. But WHERE do we draw the line? If grandma is 67 years old? 60? 55?

The truth is that NO online casino knows what age the player in front of the screen has. In this case, people react on the fact that the account holder is a, hmm, "senior".

The gameplay itself isn't anything wrong with, or is it? Did the "system" work? Is the real reason from the casino the gameplay or the age of the player?

Since both the player and the casino seems to be thieves I will certainly not recommend 888 to anyone. Why can't they just discuss things as serious casinos?

 

[HIGHIQ]

Mirra,

just buy a good video camera.. and make a video that ur grandma is playing... we talking about 100k if it is real what u claiming to .. then there should be no worries...then 888 has no feet to stand on...i think anybody who has been taking away for 100k would sound frustating like MIrra...all the people will stand behind u if u can show the real case on proving video... sofar words isnt just enough...i seen here alot people complaining so hard for much less so...

goodluck

 

[Zepher]

Wow, I know and agree that this thread has wasted a LOT of peoples' time, but this has most certainly been one of the more entertaining ones lately. My thoughts concur with CM's last post.

/thread

 

[vinylweatherman]

Unbeatable!

To topic again. Now we all of course think that the grandson (or another scumbag) is the man behind the computer. But WHERE do we draw the line? If grandma is 67 years old? 60? 55?

The truth is that NO online casino knows what age the player in front of the screen has. In this case, people react on the fact that the account holder is a, hmm, "senior".

The gameplay itself isn't anything wrong with, or is it? Did the "system" work? Is the real reason from the casino the gameplay or the age of the player?

Since both the player and the casino seems to be thieves I will certainly not recommend 888 to anyone. Why can't they just discuss things as serious casinos?

The "system" may have got their attention, but it looks like the main issue was the ID theft. 888 cannot know whether the grandson is even old enough to play, or even if the grandmother has given permission. Maybe it was not the confession, but the highly emotional emails, that made them sure this was not someone translating, but writing in English "from the heart".

If it were the grandmother, the emotional outpourings would be in her own language, and this would not translate seamlessly into English, but would reveal oddities where different cultures have different ways of saying things emotionally.

Every time the OP has been given a way to prove that 888 are full of $***, they have come up with an excuse for not doing it. He has already made over $50K, yet draws the line at spending around $200 of it on a decent HD video camera. He then wants CM to sign a binding contract that 888 will pay him if he can make this video. This is an impossible request, designed to make CM look obstructive, but it didn't work. The worst CM could do would be to put 888 in the rogue pit were the OP able to prove he/she was scammed. Since CM has no authority over 888, there is no way he can sign such a contract, and since the grandson is fluent in English, he would know this.

Maybe granny has a 50K retirement fund she know nothing about

 

[skiny]

What language does grandma speak?

Why can't someone speak to her in her own language and ask her if her son or grandson has access to her credit cards?

If he's using grandma's ID you call the phone at the address on the ID and talk to whatever 77 year old woman happens to live there in her own language.

Then have a little chat with her about gambling strategies, blackjack systems and things only a real player would know. Presumably a real good player from the $130k "she's" won in the last couple of months.

 

[aacasino]

is this really a thread!

If anyone actually thinks the 77yo grandfather was playing on their own account is kidding themselves.

Based on what has transpired thus far, it appears to me that the grandson was in total control of the account. If true, they are in breach of the terms of every online casino I know I.e. you cannot allow someone else to use your account.

IMO the only reason the OP looks as legit as they do is the fact that the casino is 888.

What I still don't get is.... it it the 77yr old grandmother writing this thread, or the grandson on her behalf?
No matter as its obviously the grandson so at this point we don't know if the owner of the account is aware of this thread.

I have yet to see in the video a winning streak of taking a 5k deposit up to 135k. However, if this is the case the grandson won the money, then what is stopping him form opening his own account? (Self-exclusion, underage.... the list goes on).

I find it unusual that a 77yr grandmother would infrequently decide to record her play... for no apparent reason at the time as 888 had as of yet not decided to withold any withdrawals.

The soft ware is not rigged and neither belongs to 888. Its Evolution and the most popular supplier of live dealer feed to date. The tables and staff are rented.

888 have reason to believe that something is amiss. I would imagine that there have been hefty deposits by a 3rd party using a 77 yr old grandmothers credit card and after some play attempting to withdraw hefty amounts.

Seeing as the grandson has admitted to the Customer support he is playing on her behalf as well as acting as her translator, has the Grandmother previously informed the customer support this is the case and signed a document accepting all liability prior to depositing and playing in the event that should the play have been on a losing streak then this would remove all liabilities and chargebacks to 888 for the original deposits?

Unless ALL the facts are shown, how can any thread starter even begin to imagine that anyone would take this seriously. My sentiments and my own opinion is that the thread starter feels he can bully 888 into avoiding unfavourable publicity and pay. If, however, 888 do release the funds afterall, then they will have committed a serious issue and certainly would warrant a discussion in this forum.

 

[skiny]

I really have no way of knowing what's going on but I'm inclined to believe that a 77 year old woman did not open a casino account and start high rolling with a 5k bankroll and then start building video evidence before any issue arose that the funds were actually in her account and the account activity wasn't fake.

Without more information about the account's activity which I don't think anyone is going to get it's hard to say what the reality is behind this situation but I think it's safe to say something certainly smells fishy.

How long ago was the account opened? Was the deposit and play history always large amounts and high wagers?

It's just my opinion but if this was an active account with a sudden change in bet sizes and changes in games played maybe from lower wagers in slots and bingo or keno to high rolling blackjack I would probably believe that this was an account that's been "borrowed" by a player with an existing account or accounts that have either been blocked or might already be under suspicion. Or a player who wants to use someone else's credit cards to make deposits.

If this is a relatively new account I would be more inclined to believe it's just a matter of identity theft and fraud. Maybe get the pin numbers for grandma's credit cards and start high rolling.

Either way, the actions and the argumentative nature of the OP doesn't strike me as those that would be fitting of an elderly woman of 77 who doesn't even speak the language she's arguing in. I know nothing about this casino but I do know when something doesn't smell right.

 

[Seventh777]

Dear oh dear, how times change, in my day the only time grandma was subject to identity theft was when big bad wolf fancied a slice of granddaughter pie .

 

[Tyston Bethlen]

PERHAPS BIGGER IS NOT BETTER IN THIS CASE

I can read every word in the emails just fine would you like me to type them up for you? I'm on a normal laptop so perhaps your screen is too big making this burly. I see it VERY CLEAR. I'm not against the casino in any way as a matter a fact I played the 007 promo they had years ago & won big I got paid every penny. I have done well on there affiliate program as well. SO I LOVE CASINO 888. I don't know whats going on with all of this but from the emails I see they are using some BS that he didn't play his own account and that's BS. This rule not letting some one play your account is a BS rule anyways and is yet another angle for casinos to fall back on when they feel they don't want to play. Lets say I'm playing at an online casino and my GF comes in the room and say oh let me try so she spins the slot or places a bet 1 time and wins big your telling me that they don't have to pay me now? I can see where they may not want you letting some well known pro gambler take over your account like on poker or something. The casino should have %100 proof and should be on them to prove it %100 before they can withhold your money. When I say %100 proof not even a admission of guilt should be enough if it is withdrawn at anytime basically i want video evidence of the guy doing it or I want a death certificate saying the account holder is dead and could not have possibly played, not some bullshit like YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH. What if the kid said grandma lets play this casino i can win big by counting cards i watched Rain Man and the grandson & grandma played together? Then they won big of course the English speaking younger more with it person would do all the talking. Whats going on with this why is there not more being said or done about this?

 

[HIGHIQ]

I can read every word in the emails just fine would you like me to type them up for you? I'm on a normal laptop so perhaps your screen is too big making this burly. I see it VERY CLEAR. I'm not against the casino in any way as a matter a fact I played the 007 promo they had years ago & won big I got paid every penny. I have done well on there affiliate program as well. SO I LOVE CASINO 888. I don't know whats going on with all of this but from the emails I see they are using some BS that he didn't play his own account and that's BS. This rule not letting some one play your account is a BS rule anyways and is yet another angle for casinos to fall back on when they feel they don't want to play. Lets say I'm playing at an online casino and my GF comes in the room and say oh let me try so she spins the slot or places a bet 1 time and wins big your telling me that they don't have to pay me now? I can see where they may not want you letting some well known pro gambler take over your account like on poker or something. The casino should have %100 proof and should be on them to prove it %100 before they can withhold your money. When I say %100 proof not even a admission of guilt should be enough if it is withdrawn at anytime basically i want video evidence of the guy doing it or I want a death certificate saying the account holder is dead and could not have possibly played, not some bullshit like YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH. What if the kid said grandma lets play this casino i can win big by counting cards i watched Rain Man and the grandson & grandma played together? Then they won big of course the English speaking younger more with it person would do all the talking. Whats going on with this why is there not more being said or done about this?

-iam totally agree with this... what i can see is this kid showing on video is.. a starting balance of 40.000 usd.
i think they deposit 5k and played tight and got up to that amount and withdraw some... and then thinking its a big amount lets record this if something goes wrong so that they have evidence...i play all the time in some period with my father together playing live bacarat at evolution live dealer... and whats wrong with it if u have good bound as family...together having fun ... as any gambler we love this story deposit few thousend and keep winning endless... but in this case the player does and then 888 takes the plug out by this doin...

 

[P.V.]

i want video evidence of the guy doing it or I want a death certificate saying the account holder is dead and could not have possibly played, not some bullshit like YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH.

The simple fact that Grandma doesn't want to provide a video of herself trying to login to 888, or actually playing live blackjack at another site is enough for me.

I actually tried giving her the benefit of a doubt, like yourself but the lack of willingness indicated fraud and changed my position quickly.

When someone become's defensive rather than openness, it's clear something's amiss.

 

[HIGHIQ]

I just could not leave this without answer !
I may not have a video camera, this idea did not occur to you, sir ? You think I should buy one to prove you something? Even If I had a camera It would be very difficult to show myself and what's happening on the screen sharply enough, so that no questions were left ! It means I must buy some expensive HD camera and try to find some good angle so that game on the screen and myself both could be seen perfectly well... and even If I did so , all this effort would not bring me back my money. You know this perfectly well, that's why you are telling me to do so. That makes me think that lots of people are working for casinos here, you can tell by their answers. Are you one of them ? Let's make a deal: Sign some sort of contract between me and you - I manage to show myself and my game play in live casino for half an hour and post this video on youtube and you guarantee me that after this you will make 888.com unblock my account and let me withdraw all my winnings. Do you agree, sir ?

p.s. about emotions, I made him to translate so that it sounded emotional, very simple.

as he said here he is willing to do it if a contract is signed where he can has her money for 100%...but i can read aswell there is alot emotion in all the post this person has.. its $135.000 bucks lol i would shout all the way too...

 

[P.V.]

as he said here he is willing to do it if a contract is signed where he can has her money for 100%...but i can read aswell there is alot emotion in all the post this person has.. its $135.000 bucks lol i would shout all the way too...

It's not he but she, Grandma. Start at page one..

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/888-com-online-was-scammed.53401/

 

[vinylweatherman]

as he said here he is willing to do it if a contract is signed where he can has her money for 100%...but i can read aswell there is alot emotion in all the post this person has.. its $135.000 bucks lol i would shout all the way too...

I am sure Grandma would to, but not in English. She would be ranting away, and her grandson would be trying to make sense of it and put it into English. This would temper any emotion and produce a calmer paraphrasing of what was said. This didn't happen though, the post was typed by the person experiencing the raw emotion, and the brain was not translating, but producing English direct from raw emotion, with the fingers typing it.

The grandson also guards the phone. 888 cannot speak to grandma without the grandson butting in and taking over the call. 888 believe that it is the grandson that does all the playing, grandma just supplies the money, either knowingly or unknowingly.

 

[Janek12]

I actually tried giving her the benefit of a doubt, like yourself but the lack of willingness indicated fraud and changed my position quickly.

When someone become's defensive rather than openness, it's clear something's amiss.

I completely agree with you. I have changed my position too.
It does not make sense that the old lady would not want to present all the proof she can and get the support of a man with such huge respect and reputation in the online casino world as Casinomeister has.
I think the motive for posting here might have been the grandson's (or whatever person it is) revenge against the casino by badmouthing them here. But since the grandson (the person) knows that he actually does not have a case, he leaves it at that.
If the player was the lady and everything was above board, then she could get a much better revenge by PROVING that the casino was in the wrong and by - possibly - getting that huge amount of money in the process.
So the case seems clear to me now - and the thought that perhaps it is even a case of downright abuse of an old-age person either by a relative or a complete stranger really makes me very sad and angry. I have old parents and it is horrible how some people try to take advantage of them... including shop assistants at cash registers in supermarkets adding items to their bill, etc.

 

[Seventh777]

I`m middle of the road on this one - On one side we have the T&C`s of 888 clearly stating that only the account holder can play on their account, on the other side we have a family member playing for them, what if the account holder has some form of disablement like chronic arthritis and has trouble pressing keys, or they are blind, a granddaughter playing a grandmother`s account doesn`t warrant a seizure of $40,000 imho, okay the T&C`s have been broken, but, have they really been broken to such an extent that it warrants a forfeiture of such a large sum of money?, it`s down to the integrity of the casino entirely to resolve this.

I wonder what the result would be if this happened at 32Red?.

I would guarantee that if 888 were informed that the only way grandma could carry on depositing was for one of her grandchildren to play for her, they would have agreed.

 

[Nifty29]

I`m middle of the road on this one - On one side we have the T&C`s of 888 clearly stating that only the account holder can play on their account, on the other side we have a family member playing for them, what if the account holder has some form of disablement like chronic arthritis and has trouble pressing keys, or they are blind, a granddaughter playing a grandmother`s account doesn`t warrant a seizure of $40,000 imho, okay the T&C`s have been broken, but, have they really been broken to such an extent that it warrants a forfeiture of such a large sum of money?, it`s down to the integrity of the casino entirely to resolve this.

I wonder what the result would be if this happened at 32Red?.

I would guarantee that if 888 were informed that the only way grandma could carry on depositing was for one of her grandchildren to play for her, they would have agreed.

Either you breach the terms or you don't.

Once you start talking about "degrees of breach", it makes having rules almost pointless. Like with anything, once you give an inch the fraudsters will take it a mile.

I agree with p.v.....innocent people don't behave like granny/grandson/martian/whoever was playing has in this thread.

IMO you can't equate dollar values with whether or not a term should be waived....to say that is tantamount to saying it is OK to confiscate smaller amounts from low rollers, but high rollers or big winners should be exempt. Either everyone gets the free ride, or nobody does, otherwise don't have the rule in the first place.

 

[Seventh777]

Either you breach the terms or you don't.

Once you start talking about "degrees of breach", it makes having rules almost pointless. Like with anything, once you give an inch the fraudsters will take it a mile.

I agree with p.v.....innocent people don't behave like granny/grandson/martian/whoever was playing has in this thread.

IMO you can't equate dollar values with whether or not a term should be waived....to say that is tantamount to saying it is OK to confiscate smaller amounts from low rollers, but high rollers or big winners should be exempt. Either everyone gets the free ride, or nobody does, otherwise don't have the rule in the first place.

Well that wasn`t my intention to endorse rules with borderlines that can be waived by some, breached by others, I remember a case over Xmas last year when some guy had made a single bet over the allowed maximum bet the bonus allowed and had his winnings confiscated, even you expressed your feelings that this was unseasonal and not the correct road to take, we have here a case of a family member playing their family member`s account, if this was a case of intimidation on their behalf I would agree.

 

[Pinababy69]

p.s. about emotions, I made him to translate so that it sounded emotional, very simple.

No...I said MORE exclamation points and question marks!! And make sure to throw some capital letters in there, so that everyone will know I'm shouting, and VERY upset!!!!! Ha ha....one of the better/funnier answers from the many scammers over the years.

Honestly, that whole paragraph was clearly written in the first person...no translation.

I hope you drop the soap in the jail house shower-room.

And one of the best responses to a scammer....lmao.