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Resolved 32red VS Rado16 (2100 Euro dispute)

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Rado16, May 28, 2009.

    May 28, 2009
  1. Rado16

    Rado16 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    pr
    Look what they did to me at the so called the best casino ever- 32red.

    I played a Live Dealer Baccarat. I made a big bet of 2100 eu betting at Player.
    The dealer has dealt 9 for Player and 7 for Banker. So I won 2100 eu! I waited but my balance did not change as if I lost that bet.
    I went to a gameplay check but could not find any information about this bet. It has disappeared!
    I contacted 32red casino support. They promised to help. Then I waited for 2 weeks!!!
    They always told me that they await a reply from Microgaming and also need to check a video feed.
    And today I got a reply stating that they placing my bet of 2100 eu back to my casino
    account and void my winnings because there was a technical fault on their side! I cannot believe it! There was only one error- my winnings were not credited to my balance! All the rest was absolutely valid- my bet was accepted and I saw with my own eyes the dealer
    dealing the cards. I am 100% sure that they would never credit my lost bet back if I lost that bet.I would not even know that that bet was void. Can I accept this???
    I also found a recent thread here at casinomeister where you can see the same story happenning to the other casinomeister user at 32red (what a coincidence- live dealer bets love to disappear at 32red casino somehow- not at any other Microgaming casino).
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...ive-dealer-baccarat-winning-bet-not-paid.html

    The only difference between my case and his is that I bet 2100 eu and he only made 100 gbp bet. And they paid
    him his bet and his winnings back eventually. In my case they want to punish me for what they call their own technical mistake! And in fact
    it can easily be a dirty trick by the casino with the only purpose not to pay a winning bet. There certainly is a video record at Microgaming which will prove exactly how did that bet finish.
    I warned them that will write here. They seem not to care. Please, support me. If they don't pay me my winnings they should never be considered the
    best casinomeister casino. It is a cheating on winning players and using double standards in one case!
     
  2. May 28, 2009
  3. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Either Ed Ware or Pat will reply to this thread I believe. However, I dont think you should 'warn' a casino that you will post here. This is not a place for 'threats'.
     
    4 people like this.
  4. May 28, 2009
  5. NewOrleans

    NewOrleans Banned User

    Occupation:
    gambling
    Location:
    Canada New Brunswick
    32red is a highly respectable casino,I doubt they did that on purpose,it is probably a software error.The live casino is ran by another group and they are probably to blame.

    The reason it is taking so long might be due to having to contact this group that runs the live baccarat.

    I noticed not only 32red offers the same dealers,which is why the above statement is probably correct.

    Did you save a screenshot?That always helps...I figure you didn't because you trusted 32red and I understand you 100% I would not have taken any screenshot to protect myself there as there is no need for that kind of stuff.

    If your claim is legit you will not be ignored,this is a serious accusation as 32red has won 6 awards in a row.For something as serious as 2100$ you will get a swift response :) let us know what is going on.
     
  6. May 28, 2009
  7. NewOrleans

    NewOrleans Banned User

    Occupation:
    gambling
    Location:
    Canada New Brunswick
    Before I forget,if this is an attempt to get attention mark my words you will be shamed for it.32red will be inspecting your account activity and will report back to us with the real information.

    "32red STEALS 2100 eu from me" Very damaging accusation...
     
  8. May 28, 2009
  9. AudiManinBoro

    AudiManinBoro Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    Sales
    Location:
    UK
    Unfortunatly most casinos have the clause ` malfunction voids all bets and plays` in their T&C somewhere, i woudlnt surprise me if 32Red does too. However, in the interests of fairness as `best casino` several years running, if the player is indeed right and he did win that bet fairly and their IS video evidence that suports this, 32 red should him pay him his winnings. This is of course if the player is right, we havent heard the other side of this story yet and really need to do so.
     
  10. May 28, 2009
  11. path

    path Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Operations Director
    Location:
    Gibraltar
    32Red

    Just to let you know that I am aware of this situation and am just pulling together all the relevant evidence.
    Once I have all of this, I'll PM the OP and we can then take it from there.

    Cheers for now
    Pat
     
    8 people like this.
  12. May 28, 2009
  13. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    You should have written up the deal ID number immediately when you saw that the winnings were not paid, so it would have been easy to track the hand in question.

    Having been a victim of this same bug also at 32Red, my opinion is that unless the hand was declared void (V symbol) on the very spot, winnings should be paid even if there was a technical glitch affecting the payout. And the fact that 2100 was taken from your balance also shows that the stake was accepted and a winning stake should be honored.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. May 28, 2009
  15. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Sounds interesting.
    This was live so hard to imagine what a technical issue could be that would warrant voiding winnings.
    The bet was accepted apparently.
    Dealer flatulence perhaps. :p

    I am just joking and if it happened as Rado16 states then I can understand why they would be very upset.
    I don't play 32 Red but they seem very good so I will wait with interest as to what Pat's investigation brings up.
     
  16. May 28, 2009
  17. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Quite so and well said. Casinomeister is not here to be used as a stick to threaten anyone.

    Since threats were obviously part of the motivation for this posting I have changed the thread title to something a little more even-handed.
     
    5 people like this.
  18. May 28, 2009
  19. Rado16

    Rado16 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    pr
    my english is not so good but I don't think that "to warn" means "to threaten" as chuchu put it in his post. I just wanted to inform the casino in advance about my actions.
    regarding Path's promise: this casino had 2 full weeks to get things sorted out. I was waiting and hoping they will finally credit my account with what I won deservedly. But instead they prefered to steal. No other name for that.
     
  20. May 28, 2009
  21. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I'm a little bit surprised you didn't move it to 'complaints' while you were at it... :confused:

    I await the outcome of this case with interest.
    I know these technical glitches can occur because it happened to me long ago playing live roulette at Ladbrokes: I saw the ball clearly land in one number on the video, but a different number came up on the electronic system and bets on the true number were not paid... :(

    Let's give Pat a bit of time to sort this out.
    KK
     
  22. May 28, 2009
  23. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Ooopsy, quite so. Doing that now.
     
  24. May 28, 2009
  25. Rado16

    Rado16 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    pr
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here a reply which I received from Path.
    Hi Rado16,

    Please, firstly accept my apologies for the length of time that it has taken to resolve this whole query; two weeks from the date of the bet being placed is simply unacceptable and you have my assurances that we will work with our software providers to ensure that there is no repeat of this.

    What has happened in this case, I am led to believe, is that there has been a discrepancy between the result as displayed on the video-stream and the data that was recorded in the gaming database. This gets branded a technical fault and we have a standard rule that says malfunction voids all bets and plays which has been applied in this case. In these circumstances your stake should have been immediately returned to you (irrespective of it being a winner or loser). That was the first error here, in that this wasnt completed automatically at that time and when we in turn chased it with our software providers they failed to add the stake back into your account. This shouldnt have taken two weeks to resolve as I said earlier and once again, you have my apologies.

    I am waiting to receive the detailed evidence of this discrepancy and I will forward to you once I have it (likely to be tomorrow morning).

    The case here hasnt been helped by your use of our Slots Welcome Bonus to play non-qualifying games which also do not contribute to the wagering requirements of the bonus.
    Again, we do have a standard term attached to our various welcome bonus offers that limits the size of the maximum bet that can be placed to 25% of the value of the bonus. The staking pattern that you have adopted here does contravene this term and as a consequence higher wagering levels now apply.

    I am also disappointed to see that you attempted to have this resolved in your favour by threatening to post here at Casinomeister if you didnt get the result you wanted. I would have much preferred that we could have attempted to reach a solution without being put under any duress.

    In the meantime I would just like to say that when it comes to errors with the Live Dealer games (and dealing with queries generally) we do treat each individual case on its merits and look to resolve issues to the mutual satisfaction of the player and 32Red.

    Thanks for taking the time to read this and I will be in contact once I have the detailed pieces of information from our software providers. This will then give me a much firmer base on which to make any decision about the status of your void bet.
    __________________
    Mr.Pat Harrison
    Operations Director
    32Red
    This email is not visible to you.
    Casinomeister Forum Member: path

    -------------


    Now look, she tells me : "there has been a discrepancy between the result as displayed on the video-stream and the data that was recorded in the gaming database."
    And there was no any discrepancy! I saw what happened on the video screen and according to what I saw- I won. Moreover- there was NOTHING recorded in the gaming database- the bet was just missing from there. The only problem was that my winnings were not credited to my casino balance! Any check of microgaming video feed will support my words.
    And the second part of Path's message was the most disappointing: she claims that I somehow
    violated the term of "25% bonus amount as a bet size". For her knowledge- this rule is NOT applied in slot bonus of 32red casino. Is that the way to make me feel guilty and to accept the fact that this casino voids my winning bet?
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. May 28, 2009
  27. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    First, I dont understand why you are going raving mad. Pat said that he would like to gather more information before making a decision. Second, how do you know there was no discrepancy from what you saw and the gaming database. Third, if you were using a slots bonus and using most or whole of the bonus to bet on a single game of baccarat, then you are abusing the bonus although Pat was careful in stating that this has not helped matters rather than saying winnings should be voided. I understand that this is a general term which is applied in addition to specific bonus terms.

    A tip for you. Ranting like this will not gain you any sympathy from members here. We want to see players being treated fairly but when the casino is trying to make things work and you jump the gun by making all sorts of accusations it will only go against you. Please be patient until Pat gets all his data.
     
    4 people like this.
  28. May 28, 2009
  29. Rado16

    Rado16 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    pr
    ouh my God! they have just adjusted their rules! Look at the terms and conditions of the Slot bonus at 32red. It shows that it was last amended 28 of May! Thankfully I have a screenshot of the older terms where there is NOT any mention of 25% bet size limit. I can provide it by any request. I did not expect such a casino to behave in such a way! Now I am really worried for my money at this casino.
     
  30. May 28, 2009
  31. sjn

    sjn Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    England
    Doesn't a slots bonus mean you have to play slots???
     
  32. May 28, 2009
  33. Rado16

    Rado16 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    pr
    I am talking to Path using the messsenger at Casinomeister. He says that somehow I violated 25% bonus amount limit per bet. I write to him that this rule is not applied to this SLOT bonus. Path then goes and amends the rules so all I say starts to look like a lie. Can you imagine this, guys? And who do you call a reputable casino? My luck I have a screenshot of the older rules which was last amended on 26 of February 2009.
     
  34. May 28, 2009
  35. Rado16

    Rado16 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    pr
    chuchu, please go and read the terms of the bonus before accusing me of bonus abuse and

    moreover stating that my money should be confiscated for violating bonus terms. Before I

    made a deposit I learned the terms very carefully. Yes it is a slot bonus but it is ALLOWED

    to play other games too. The only thing is that if I play non slot games- then my wagering

    requirements will be increased and I was ready for that. There was no any mention of
    the bet size limit in their terms of slot bonus (untli today when they amended it FOR ME).

    And again chuchu-have more respect for other ppl's money. I was robbed and now you try to

    support the robber without even knowing the case.


    PS Guys, please support me. Since 32red understands that they can not to pay me a winning

    bet (and there can not be any excuse here- the winning bet must be paid )- then they started

    to accuse me in violating the bonus terms and even went further amending their rules in such

    a way as not to pay me.



     
  36. May 28, 2009
  37. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    You could start with posting the screenshot.
     
  38. May 28, 2009
  39. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    Based on my experiences with this 'technical fault' (and it has happened to me not once but twice at 32Red) there was no discrepancy between the video stream and the recorded result. The result is displayed on a table next to the video-stream and these both showed the correct result. The hand was not declared void by the dealer on the spot. The only malfunction was that winnings were not credited.

    If winning bets under such conditions are not honored then playing Live Baccarat at 32Red is simply not safe for the player.
     

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