32RED downgrades TAB/SE

[Deeplay]

I

32Red is 'old hat' now, a one provider platform (MG) and no withdrawals at weekends. There are dozens of other other casinos listed on CM which provide a higher level of gaming, customer service and responsible gaming.

Think that sums it up , well put.

 

[goatwack]

Well not to worry. 32Red are soon to re-brand having taken all our suggestions and criticisms onboard.

The name will reflect their bond with customers, and how much they listen and implement both positive and negative feedback into improving their service.

They will be called "Zero"

 

[incrediblestuff]

Hate to see these types of threads on one of my top 5 Casino's, but i get it..
However, there may be better Casino's at the moment that outshine in Area's where 32Red used to lead..and all i can say most of those are younger Casino's who did have something to prove, and let's face it, most of it is pure marketing, to earn a player base. With a big enough player base, all Casino's seem to change. One thing that's for sure, is that none (or very very few) of the alternatives you naysayers mention have a track record that is as good and long as 32Red's... I still play my Microgaming session there, and will probably continue to do so for as long as they are in business.

That said, i also don't like most of the changes that were made, but so far have not been personally affected..
Problem Gambling is a whole other thing, and i already said this before, in similar threads, that nowadays not only have there been player scams abusing the laws around SE etc, but also a lot of players that use the facility wrong: it's best to just train yourself to not play back winnings, or in general, train your discipline!

You can say what you want, but there is a link in that age to gamcare, which iirc is a software that blocks all your Gambling sites at a few clicks, so if there is an urgent problem the player could use this and pretty much be done with it?
We have all seen in the past that if a player really does have a problem, nothing will help until he really destroy's himself.
It's sad, but the worst cases pretty much all go that way, and no SE or whatever means can stop it, as they will always find a way, on or offline, to go broke.

So, assuming that these options are here for "responsible" players, that do have a healthy level of restraint, these pending periods should not really form the issue: 12 hours should cover most of the "normal" withdrawal timeframes in most Casino's, and if people consider that fast enough for a withdrawal, then it should be possible to hold your horses and restraint for not reversing, or self excluding..if you know what i mean.

Sure things could be smoother for that process, and maybe they will be improved, but i don't think we are producing much goodwill here anymore on the forums, because of all the damn outrage they are receiving here! Instead a mature discussion with a poll would be more productive. i.m.o. just keep the emotion and drama out of it ffs

Anyway, one more thing is that even if there are competitors that have better SE user friendliness, there's also tons of Casino's with much less player friendly ones..

i still feel 32Red is one of the best Casino's out there, as i am getting my vip treatment, i have pretty close ties to management and some of the other staff, and i trust them more then anyone else in that regard. I liked it better when they were still at their peak in terms of cool features, but as others in this thread have justly stated, they are growing, and they are a business after all.

As long as i am treated right i don't see any reason to stop playing there.

 

[dunover]

Hate to see these types of threads on one of my top 5 Casino's, but i get it..
However, there may be better Casino's at the moment that outshine in Area's where 32Red used to lead..and all i can say most of those are younger Casino's who did have something to prove, and let's face it, most of it is pure marketing, to earn a player base. With a big enough player base, all Casino's seem to change. One thing that's for sure, is that none (or very very few) of the alternatives you naysayers mention have a track record that is as good and long as 32Red's... I still play my Microgaming session there, and will probably continue to do so for as long as they are in business.

That said, i also don't like most of the changes that were made, but so far have not been personally affected..
Problem Gambling is a whole other thing, and i already said this before, in similar threads, that nowadays not only have there been player scams abusing the laws around SE etc, but also a lot of players that use the facility wrong: it's best to just train yourself to not play back winnings, or in general, train your discipline!

Gambling You can say what you want, but there is a link in that age to gamcare, which iirc is a software that blocks all your sites at a few clicks, so if there is an urgent problem the player could use this and pretty much be done with it?
We have all seen in the past that if a player really does have a problem, nothing will help until he really destroy's himself.
It's sad, but the worst cases pretty much all go that way, and no SE or whatever means can stop it, as they will always find a way, on or offline, to go broke.

So, assuming that these options are here for "responsible" players, that do have a healthy level of restraint, these pending periods should not really form the issue: 12 hours should cover most of the "normal" withdrawal timeframes in most Casino's, and if people consider that fast enough for a withdrawal, then it should be possible to hold your horses and restraint for not reversing, or self excluding..if you know what i mean.

Sure things could be smoother for that process, and maybe they will be improved, but i don't think we are producing much goodwill here anymore on the forums, because of all the damn outrage they are receiving here! Instead a mature discussion with a poll would be more productive. i.m.o. just keep the emotion and drama out of it ffs

Anyway, one more thing is that even if there are competitors that have better SE user friendliness, there's also tons of Casino's with much less player friendly ones..

i still feel 32Red is one of the best Casino's out there, as i am getting my vip treatment, i have pretty close ties to management and some of the other staff, and i trust them more then anyone else in that regard. I liked it better when they were still at their peak in terms of cool features, but as others in this thread have justly stated, they are growing, and they are a business after all.

As long as i am treated right i don't see any reason to stop playing there.

Which falls well short of what is required and generally done. A bit like a pub giving a drunk a card with the AA phone number on, and then letting him carry on drinking.

 

[incrediblestuff]

Which falls well short of what is required and generally done. A bit like a pub giving a drunk a card with the AA phone number on, and then letting him carry on drinking.

Seriously? to quote yourself in your typical TwinSpin session: Buuuullshit!
That's nowhere near a valid comparison...keep it real please

 

[Deeplay]

Hate to see these types of threads on one of my top 5 Casino's, but i get it..
However, there may be better Casino's at the moment that outshine in Area's where 32Red used to lead..and all i can say most of those are younger Casino's who did have something to prove, and let's face it, most of it is pure marketing, to earn a player base. With a big enough player base, all Casino's seem to change. One thing that's for sure, is that none (or very very few) of the alternatives you naysayers mention have a track record that is as good and long as 32Red's... I still play my Microgaming session there, and will probably continue to do so for as long as they are in business.

That said, i also don't like most of the changes that were made, but so far have not been personally affected..
Problem Gambling is a whole other thing, and i already said this before, in similar threads, that nowadays not only have there been player scams abusing the laws around SE etc, but also a lot of players that use the facility wrong: it's best to just train yourself to not play back winnings, or in general, train your discipline!

You can say what you want, but there is a link in that age to gamcare, which iirc is a software that blocks all your Gambling sites at a few clicks, so if there is an urgent problem the player could use this and pretty much be done with it?
We have all seen in the past that if a player really does have a problem, nothing will help until he really destroy's himself.
It's sad, but the worst cases pretty much all go that way, and no SE or whatever means can stop it, as they will always find a way, on or offline, to go broke.

So, assuming that these options are here for "responsible" players, that do have a healthy level of restraint, these pending periods should not really form the issue: 12 hours should cover most of the "normal" withdrawal timeframes in most Casino's, and if people consider that fast enough for a withdrawal, then it should be possible to hold your horses and restraint for not reversing, or self excluding..if you know what i mean.

Sure things could be smoother for that process, and maybe they will be improved, but i don't think we are producing much goodwill here anymore on the forums, because of all the damn outrage they are receiving here! Instead a mature discussion with a poll would be more productive. i.m.o. just keep the emotion and drama out of it ffs

Anyway, one more thing is that even if there are competitors that have better SE user friendliness, there's also tons of Casino's with much less player friendly ones..

i still feel 32Red is one of the best Casino's out there, as i am getting my vip treatment, i have pretty close ties to management and some of the other staff, and i trust them more then anyone else in that regard. I liked it better when they were still at their peak in terms of cool features, but as others in this thread have justly stated, they are growing, and they are a business after all.

As long as i am treated right i don't see any reason to stop playing there.

I am genuinely glad you dont ever feel the need to use any RG tools. I mean that. But some do. Me being one of them. I love the game so much that quitting is not an option for me. Tried it and failed miserably. So took another approach to learn how to gamble responsibly. Took me years to master and im happy to say im good with where I am at these days, and enjoy it so much more now. But a vital part of that for me was being able to set DL - and take a break without the brutality of SE. Which I do use at some of my top casinos. Video slots Casumo etc sure Casumo do not have it built it. But chat right there 24/7 and any request I ask e.g kick me out for a week or slash my depo limits is done instantly without even so much as a question as to why.

Video slots - Royal panda etc all built in so they get the majority of my play - why ? because I feel it is a safe environment for me. With 32red all they have now is depo limit that you can still self administer and to be honest can not be arsed going through the many loops just to take a break for a week or 2. So my depo limit is way under the minimum now and will remain that way.

Sure they are a massive business now and rightly will make the choices to ensure they bring in profits. I get that. And they wont miss at all my miserable 20/30 quid deposits ever week or so. They have 1000s of players so will do what they think best to keep growing. Makes sense from a buisness perspective.

Me as a lowly player I make my own choice which is to not partake as they are other places which suit my own personal needs . So they loose me but wont feel it nor care. The bigger issue of social responsibility I will hold of making any further comment on that until they have made a statement here. But I have my own views on that for sure!

 

[Jono777]

Does make me smile in relation to the earlier posts about Mark a page or so back.

Few months ago most members were voting for him in the CM awards, less than 3-4 months on and as mentioned the 'almost' witch hunt and negativity is rife, such short memories, not to mention all the 'good work', special promos, bending over backwards to help us etc is long forgotten.

Remember the bloke does not own 32 Red and it is not him making the decisions that some people do not like, whether right or wrong. Servicing Casino Meister is also 'added extra' and not part of his job description I'm sure!

 

[lockinlove]

Does make me smile in relation to the earlier posts about Mark a page or so back.

Few months ago most members were voting for him in the CM awards, less than 3-4 months on and as mentioned the 'almost' witch hunt and negativity is rife, such short memories, not to mention all the 'good work', special promos, bending over backwards to help us etc is long forgotten.

Remember the bloke does not own 32 Red and it is not him making the decisions that some people do not like, whether right or wrong. Servicing Casino Meister is also 'added extra' and not part of his job description I'm sure!

Exactly. I mean the guy has had alot to do with helping people on a personal level too. Broken computer? Send them a new one. TV robbed? Send them a new one. Quitting smoking? Give them an incentive to help.

Mark shouldnt even be mentioned in this thread unless its positive things.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Exactly. I mean the guy has had alot to do with helping people on a personal level too. Broken computer? Send them a new one. TV robbed? Send them a new one. Quitting smoking? Give them an incentive to help.

Mark shouldnt even be mentioned in this thread unless its positive things.

I think i highlighted many times that this is not about Mark!!!

And i REPEAT once again, it is about 32RED removing the online RG tools, making it much harder for players to activate either a TAB or a SE. Do you find that is a responsible attitude as they proclaim on their website?

The TAB has been widely used, me included, when WD's were in pending stage to avoid any reversals. Hence that will impact a lot of players as the account will not be locked instantly as they have to send now an email to 32RED support.

Further, they removed the online facilities for TAB/SE (which was instant and hence, the most effective option) and are asking now the player to go through hoops and hurdles, all the way offering him to CANCEL his plans, and replaced the online version with forms that need to be completed and returned to 32RED.

The player is now at the mercy of the casino as to when his account will be locked, leaving him/her vulnerable for more losses.

Further, as one poster pointed out, he has been persuaded to keep his account active! That is like giving the drunk, Dunover mentioned, another 3 bottles.

I've posted about this before, I had a £200 WD pending, and i wanted to take a 7day break so that I wouldn't reverse.

I e-mailed and spoke ton live chat and they tried to persuade me to stay, and left my account active for the whole pending period, I think I was 10 days before it was closed.

I've since vacated 32red, every move they make seems to be backwards, and it's quite disheartening considering I've been playing there for many years.

This is what this thread is about, certainly not about talking Mark down.

 

[lockinlove]

I think i highlighted many times that this is not about Mark!!!

My post wasnt directed at you

 

[brianmon]

To some extent, I can see the logic of making Self-exclusion not so straightforward, and that they might be trying to protect customers from themselves.

The vast majority of players don't seem to understand what SE is, and what the implications are.

How many players have misused SE at a particular casino as some sort of protest, in the heat of the moment, after a losing streak, only to regret it afterwards? When they find that they can't reopen the account and that they're also excluded from the other casinos on the same license

If the procedure means clicking on links in the text rather than a big button, then at least there's a chance of customers reading the text, rather than excluding themselves in 2 clicks of a mouse button.

I would assume that self-excluding from 32Red would mean automatic exclusion from all the other casinos on their license, and I'm sure this would be done more efficiently than the likes of EveryMatrix.

The TAB options, on the other hand, SHOULD be more straightforward

 

[dunover]

I think i highlighted many times that this is not about Mark!!!

And i REPEAT once again, it is about 32RED removing the online RG tools, making it much harder for players to activate either a TAB or a SE. Do you find that is a responsible attitude as they proclaim on their website?

The TAB has been widely used, me included, when WD's were in pending stage to avoid any reversals. Hence that will impact a lot of players as the account will not be locked instantly as they have to send now an email to 32RED support.

Further, they removed the online facilities for TAB/SE (which was instant and hence, the most effective option) and are asking now the player to go through hoops and hurdles, all the way offering him to CANCEL his plans, and replaced the online version with forms that need to be completed and returned to 32RED.

The player is now at the mercy of the casino as to when his account will be locked, leaving him/her vulnerable for more losses.

Further, as one poster pointed out, he has been persuaded to keep his account active! That is like giving the drunk, Dunover mentioned, another 3 bottles.



This is what this thread is about, certainly not about talking Mark down.

Agreed, and as I also stated earlier, the poor rep(s) have to take flak for 'business decisions' or errors above their pay grade. They are often in an uncomfortable position, and despite the serious issues raised in this thread it is good to remind ourselves and the readers that we all understand their position and appreciate their contributions and assistance in 'normal' circumstances. A veritable shitstorm he faces here and I certainly empathise with him.

 

[Harry_BKK]

To some extent, I can see the logic of making Self-exclusion not so straightforward, and that they might be trying to protect customers from themselves.

The vast majority of players don't seem to understand what SE is, and what the implications are.

How many players have misused SE at a particular casino as some sort of protest, in the heat of the moment, after a losing streak, only to regret it afterwards? When they find that they can't reopen the account and that they're also excluded from the other casinos on the same license

If the procedure means clicking on links in the text rather than a big button, then at least there's a chance of customers reading the text, rather than excluding themselves in 2 clicks of a mouse button.

I would assume that self-excluding from 32Red would mean automatic exclusion from all the other casinos on their license, and I'm sure this would be done more efficiently than the likes of EveryMatrix.

The TAB options, on the other hand, SHOULD be more straightforward

Nope, don't think so. The post below points much more to the potential reason behind the changes:

I was surprised to see in the William Hill results that player exclusions had such an impact on their profits (or so they claimed).

Several subsequent reports noted that as a surprisingly large negative factor, so perhaps 32Red is making a precautionary move in an attempt to reduce the risk of similar damage?

I'm not saying that is acceptable - just a possible motivation.

 

[brianmon]

Nope, don't think so. The post below points much more to the potential reason behind the changes:

I wonder how many of those exclusions were genuine gambling problem related though.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I wonder how many of those exclusions were genuine gambling problem related though.

Surely not all but that does not justify making it very hard to do a genuine SE's

 

[Jono777]

I think i highlighted many times that this is not about Mark!!!

This is what this thread is about, certainly not about talking Mark down.

No matey your spot on!

As I think I mentioned before, threads spiral out of control and a few posts drifted from the topic of conversation and turn into a free for all and 'Lets get this off my chest' rant. (As they always do 9/10 )

My post was simply to try and eradicate that element of the thread and get this back on track. More aimed at the guilty parties and not your good self!

 

[brianmon]

Surely not all but that does not justify making it very hard to do a genuine SE's

I'm sure WH have always had SE options. So why is it affecting them so much now?

Could it be that those WH exclusions are a consequence of the new UKGC SE regulations? and be from the other sites on their license:-

eurogrand.com
21nova.com
betmostpoker.com
egmc.mobi
joylandcasino.com
macau.williamhill.com
mobile.williamhillcasino.com
prempredictor.williamhillbet.com
prestigecasino.com
skykingscasino.com
williamhill.com
williamhillcasino.com

Where an exclusion from one, has now become an exclusion from all?

A situation where customers and casino alike are not happy

And something 32Red is trying to avoid?

 

[brianmon]

If I was to get pissed off at Dash, and self excluded myself from there, with a couple of mouse clicks, in the heat of the moment.

And then found out my 32Red account had also been closed. I'd be even more pissed off.

32Red loses a customer and I lose an account I want.

So I think there has to be a balance now between making SE too easy and making it too difficult.

We at CM know about all the new UKGC restrictions and consequences. What about the vast majority of 32Red customers ???

 

[Harry_BKK]

If I was to get pissed off at Dash, and self excluded myself from there, with a couple of mouse clicks, in the heat of the moment.

And then found out my 32Red account had also been closed. I'd be even more pissed off.

32Red loses a customer and I lose an account I want.

So I think there has to be a balance now between making SE too easy and making it too difficult.

We at CM know about all the new UKGC restrictions and consequences. What about the vast majority of 32Red customers ???

I still don't see reason enough to remove the online SE/TAB facility.

If you check some of the screenshots in this thread or watch Dunover's video you can see that 32RED advises a few times about the consequences of a SE, hence it is pretty clear to anybody reading it, those parts are in bold letters, very hard to miss.

I agree that a SE should not be made lightly and rushed, most players probably don't. However, if a player has bottomed out completely, which surely happens often enough, then the last thing he/she needs is a complicated procedure where he has to

- go through various pages and logins,
- requesting and completing a form,
- printing, completing and emailing the form back to 32RED
- hope that somebody will pick it up quickly and does the SE

while all the time his/her account stays opened until a 32RED support agent gets it done, which could be another day or even more.


However, the reasons behind taking offline the easy to activate online TAB are clearly commercial, it will be hard to convince me that it is something else. And that because it was done just before the Easter Holidays with up to 5 days pending periods and hence quite a risk of losing proceeds as many players would have done a TAB if they had a winning session early in the weekend.

With the changed procedure it will be up to 32RED as to when the TAB is activated, not the player. And that can take again up to 24hrs, time enough for the weak to reverse and lose the lot.

 

[Steviedoo]

I think we are all mourning the loss of all the things we loved about 32 red and we are now at the angry stage. This thread has become part witch hunt part demand for social justice. not pointing any fingers just an observation.

First came denial now comes the anger. At some point there will be acceptance. And the mourning process for 32 red will be complete.

 

[brianmon]

However, the reasons behind taking offline the easy to activate online TAB are clearly commercial, it will be hard to convince me that it is something else. And that because it was done just before the Easter Holidays with up to 5 days pending periods and hence quite a risk of losing proceeds as many players would have done a TAB if they had a winning session early in the weekend.

With the changed procedure it will be up to 32RED as to when the TAB is activated, not the player. And that can take again up to 24hrs, time enough for the weak to reverse and lose the lot.

I completely agree

 

[dunover]

If I was to get pissed off at Dash, and self excluded myself from there, with a couple of mouse clicks, in the heat of the moment.

And then found out my 32Red account had also been closed. I'd be even more pissed off.

32Red loses a customer and I lose an account I want.

So I think there has to be a balance now between making SE too easy and making it too difficult.

We at CM know about all the new UKGC restrictions and consequences. What about the vast majority of 32Red customers ???

It's not what you or I think though - it's what's required of them under licensing terms. Don't forget to distinguish between TAB and SE here. If you TAB in the heat of the moment it won't affect your other accounts on the license.

I must admit, until I hear otherwise, that Harry's cynicism here may be justified. We KNOW they introduced pending/removed flushing to increase take-back from withdrawals. So savvy players then get round the hideous 3-4 days pending that occurs between Thursday and Sunday by TABing. Now this facility disappears at Easter when w/d's are pending for up to 5 days......mmm....it does look a bit sniffy admittedly.

Being honest here, I would consider that highly unethical for a site like 32red. Renowned for integrity and DELIBERATELY breaching UKGC rules in order to make more profit over Easter??? I don't think so! There has to be a mistake surely?

On the other hand we do know they've intentionally travelled the customer-unfriendly path in the last 2 years by removing player benefits which I don't need to mention again. So it's inevitable people here will believe (and expect!) the worst. For that, regardless of this issue, they have only themselves to blame.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Dear All,

Firstly apologies for the time taken to reply to the thread. It was a long Bank Holiday, as Max mentioned, and I also wanted to ensure we had addressed some of the issues highlighted before commenting.

First and foremost I want to state that 32Red are committed to responsible gambling. Yes, we have made some changes to procedures surrounding the closure of accounts, but by no means are these to the detriment of player protection. We are proud to be licensed in Gibraltar, Italy and the UK and always strive to operate in a manner that is compliant with the responsibilities placed upon us.

We constantly review all aspects of our operating procedures and it was evident that our approach to Self-Exclusion needed to revert to it being a more considered and deliberate action on the part of the player. Unfortunately the existing Self Exclusion facility couldn’t be adapted, so we took the decision to reintroduce our previous process, making it available from within the gaming software and without the need to interact with anybody here in order to complete the process.

When the above change was made, we noticed that the automated Take a Break option was also no longer available, as it was part of the same application. We hadn’t realised this and had to make some fairly quick changes to ensure we could still deal with these requests in the timely manner they deserve. A dedicated email was set up (which is given top priority in the queuing system that sits behind the Help Centre) and the pages amended accordingly.

This thread has highlighted a couple of areas where we could improve this process, we have addressed some of those:

- We have now introduced a dedicated line for players who want to discuss their responsible gaming options. Our trained staff will be monitoring this line 24/7 and will be able to offer players instant changes based on their requirements.
- It was highlighted that an email link doesn’t always work if a player doesn’t have an email client installed. We have now amended this step to show the dedicated email address to enable someone using a web-based client to copy and paste it.

For those concerned about the time taken for an email to be processed, I am able to share with you that the shortest break requested over the busy Bank Holiday weekend was for 1 week – this was actioned within 19 minutes of the request being received.

It is important to remember that Take a Break is a facility that is designed to offer individuals a break so as to control their gaming and is not there, as is implied in some of the posts, as a means to protect a withdrawal from being reversed. If there are players who really can't control themselves when they are in that position, then they should contact me to see if there any alternatives available rather than using a function designed for something else. Also, regular and frequent use of a Take a Break facility could be seen as indicating problematic behaviour; we are required to intervene and interact in such circumstances and that is why it is important that the facility is used as it is intended.

Finally (sorry for the long post), the video showing the steps to live chat in the Viper software highlighted a rather unfriendly player journey which has also been addressed. Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Regards,

Mark

 

[brianmon]

It's not what you or I think though - it's what's required of them under licensing terms. Don't forget to distinguish between TAB and SE here. If you TAB in the heat of the moment it won't affect your other accounts on the license.

I must admit, until I hear otherwise, that Harry's cynicism here may be justified. We KNOW they introduced pending/removed flushing to increase take-back from withdrawals. So savvy players then get round the hideous 3-4 days pending that occurs between Thursday and Sunday by TABing. Now this facility disappears at Easter when w/d's are pending for up to 5 days......mmm....it does look a bit sniffy admittedly.

Being honest here, I would consider that highly unethical for a site like 32red. Renowned for integrity and DELIBERATELY breaching UKGC rules in order to make more profit over Easter??? I don't think so! There has to be a mistake surely?

On the other hand we do know they've intentionally travelled the customer-unfriendly path in the last 2 years by removing player benefits which I don't need to mention again. So it's inevitable people here will believe (and expect!) the worst. For that, regardless of this issue, they have only themselves to blame.

I am distinguishing between SE and TAB, I've already said that I agree with Harry, that the TAB issue is most probably profit related.

The problem is that a lot of people don't make the distinction and use SE to close an account, or to make a (misguided) FU statement after a losing streak, and then find that other accounts at casinos on the same license are also closed as a consequence.

Or in the case of EveryMatrix, closed after a withdrawal is attempted

 

[Deeplay]

Dear All,

Firstly apologies for the time taken to reply to the thread. It was a long Bank Holiday, as Max mentioned, and I also wanted to ensure we had addressed some of the issues highlighted before commenting.

First and foremost I want to state that 32Red are committed to responsible gambling. Yes, we have made some changes to procedures surrounding the closure of accounts, but by no means are these to the detriment of player protection. We are proud to be licensed in Gibraltar, Italy and the UK and always strive to operate in a manner that is compliant with the responsibilities placed upon us.

We constantly review all aspects of our operating procedures and it was evident that our approach to Self-Exclusion needed to revert to it being a more considered and deliberate action on the part of the player. Unfortunately the existing Self Exclusion facility couldn’t be adapted, so we took the decision to reintroduce our previous process, making it available from within the gaming software and without the need to interact with anybody here in order to complete the process.

When the above change was made, we noticed that the automated Take a Break option was also no longer available, as it was part of the same application. We hadn’t realised this and had to make some fairly quick changes to ensure we could still deal with these requests in the timely manner they deserve. A dedicated email was set up (which is given top priority in the queuing system that sits behind the Help Centre) and the pages amended accordingly.

This thread has highlighted a couple of areas where we could improve this process, we have addressed some of those:

- We have now introduced a dedicated line for players who want to discuss their responsible gaming options. Our trained staff will be monitoring this line 24/7 and will be able to offer players instant changes based on their requirements.
- It was highlighted that an email link doesn’t always work if a player doesn’t have an email client installed. We have now amended this step to show the dedicated email address to enable someone using a web-based client to copy and paste it.

For those concerned about the time taken for an email to be processed, I am able to share with you that the shortest break requested over the busy Bank Holiday weekend was for 1 week – this was actioned within 19 minutes of the request being received.

It is important to remember that Take a Break is a facility that is designed to offer individuals a break so as to control their gaming and is not there, as is implied in some of the posts, as a means to protect a withdrawal from being reversed. If there are players who really can't control themselves when they are in that position, then they should contact me to see if there any alternatives available rather than using a function designed for something else. Also, regular and frequent use of a Take a Break facility could be seen as indicating problematic behaviour; we are required to intervene and interact in such circumstances and that is why it is important that the facility is used as it is intended.

Finally (sorry for the long post), the video showing the steps to live chat in the Viper software highlighted a rather unfriendly player journey which has also been addressed. Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Regards,

Mark

With full respect to Mark whom this thread has never been about. I dont hold with the reasons why they have removed the SE function. And I personally feel this is driven by financial motives. Rather than remove the facility from allowing a player to be in control without needing to go through customer support because of the reasons given. it would have made more sense to explain in a clear decisive way on the same page exactly the implications of what Self Excluding means. To remove this function with the reasons given mainly "needed to revert to it being a more considered and deliberate action on the part of the player." actually Im sorry nothing here really to consider - if a player wants to SE this should be but a click away. So that to me sounds like corporate white wash. And the above is just corporate talk which in effect could be read as "how do we slow the rate of SE down... by making it marginally harder."

I fully understand my opinion here will more than likely not be popular and again this is not in any way against the rep. Who for the record I feel does a really good job. But it reminds me of when they implemented the pending period rule and the spin they tried to put on it back then - that it was in the interest of the players!

Base reasons are (I feel) to make the process to SE more difficult - some do feel highly embarrassed about approaching someone to speak to or even through email when asking for a such a thing as SE. This is a factor with offline bookies - the need to approach the staff. Many just not do this because of the stigma attached in admitting you have a gaming problem. Not in anyway suggesting 32red would make a person feel that way at all. but it is a fact. I know from the past - the way I would feel about have to ask someone to SE me based on my gambling problems back then.

So im sorry I dont hold with reasons given at all. They have made it harder not easier. As for the TAB well it is again or should be up the player to decide as when they use this. The casino of course can implement any rule they want on this I suppose in theory. Sure a programming glitch caused this to be removed when changing the SE system so in theory - this can then be fixed at some point and should be back in place I would imagine ?

End of the day this company like any other are free to operate in how they feel is best. Does not mean others have to agree and this case Im sorry to say I do not.

Again I know my views on this are probably not popular at all. And 32red has been loved by many for many years but for me those days are long gone. As they tighten the way they do things which is increasingly more and more player unfriendly.

 

[dunover]

Dear All,

Firstly apologies for the time taken to reply to the thread. It was a long Bank Holiday, as Max mentioned, and I also wanted to ensure we had addressed some of the issues highlighted before commenting.

Happy Easter!

First and foremost I want to state that 32Red are committed to responsible gambling. Yes, we have made some changes to procedures surrounding the closure of accounts, but by no means are these to the detriment of player protection. We are proud to be licensed in Gibraltar, Italy and the UK and always strive to operate in a manner that is compliant with the responsibilities placed upon us.

Is having to contact a third party and not self-set 'compliant'? Reading the UKGC terms that is debatable.

We constantly review all aspects of our operating procedures and it was evident that our approach to Self-Exclusion needed to revert to it being a more considered and deliberate action on the part of the player. Unfortunately the existing Self Exclusion facility couldn’t be adapted, so we took the decision to reintroduce our previous process, making it available from within the gaming software and without the need to interact with anybody here in order to complete the process.

I'm a bit confused here - when I made the video it was clear I had to interact with somebody, either by e-mail or phone. Was this the 'previous process' BEFORE you had the self-set up to the pre-Easter period and you reverted back to the old tedious process, or is this the one that stands now?

Secondly, why was it 'evident' that your approach needed amending? Pre-Easter you had the same as most other sites and it worked. So you guys didn't like it, for what reason? Financial, as in a recognition of Will Hill's statistics whereby the cost of SE players is significant so you want to limit SE, or another reason?

When the above change was made, we noticed that the automated Take a Break option was also no longer available, as it was part of the same application. We hadn’t realised this and had to make some fairly quick changes to ensure we could still deal with these requests in the timely manner they deserve. A dedicated email was set up (which is given top priority in the queuing system that sits behind the Help Centre) and the pages amended accordingly.

'Hadn't realized'? Basically a huge balls-up by somebody. Harry certainly noticed! Nothing is more timely than the players doing it themselves instantly as before, so I don't understand the logic of that. You set a dedicated e-mail up for TAB. So, reading the facts you have posted you have gone to quite some trouble it seems to remove the self-set options from the players. The only possible conclusion one can draw then is that it's all down to revenue. Nothing else can explain it.

This thread has highlighted a couple of areas where we could improve this process, we have addressed some of those:

- We have now introduced a dedicated line for players who want to discuss their responsible gaming options. Our trained staff will be monitoring this line 24/7 and will be able to offer players instant changes based on their requirements.
- It was highlighted that an email link doesn’t always work if a player doesn’t have an email client installed. We have now amended this step to show the dedicated email address to enable someone using a web-based client to copy and paste it.

This line must have cost some money. Yet again, you had something that worked for the player and have removed it arbitrarily. The inference is absolutely clear here that the cost of it must be more than paid for by reducing your SE/TAB players.

For those concerned about the time taken for an email to be processed, I am able to share with you that the shortest break requested over the busy Bank Holiday weekend was for 1 week – this was actioned within 19 minutes of the request being received.

Whoopee! If the players did it themselves it would be 19 milliseconds.....

It is important to remember that Take a Break is a facility that is designed to offer individuals a break so as to control their gaming and is not there, as is implied in some of the posts, as a means to protect a withdrawal from being reversed. If there are players who really can't control themselves when they are in that position, then they should contact me to see if there any alternatives available rather than using a function designed for something else. Also, regular and frequent use of a Take a Break facility could be seen as indicating problematic behaviour; we are required to intervene and interact in such circumstances and that is why it is important that the facility is used as it is intended.

Correct, it is not there solely to protect against reversals. But then again, who imposed long pending periods on their players especially at weekends? 32red must share some of the blame if players are doing that. Regular TAB 'could be seen to indicate problematic behaviour'. Could, but not necessarily. You cannot know that. So by having them phone you, you get to know more of their reasons? I know of no UKGC requirement to 'intervene' if a player takes a few 1-7 day TABs. This is why there is the distinction.

I have to laugh at your reference about pending withdrawals - "If players really can't control themselves when in that position, they should contact me...blah...." Oh the irony! Up until recent times they wouldn't have had to contact you, but get on live chat and have it flushed, end of!

Finally (sorry for the long post), the video showing the steps to live chat in the Viper software highlighted a rather unfriendly player journey which has also been addressed. Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Regards,

Mark

Yes, I am glad the video helped you see the convoluted Live Chat process we have to go through. Did you not know this until you saw the video?

To conclude, I thank you for your time to reply. Some questions haven't been answered really and if I may say so some of the reply especially in the last paragraph concerning TAB is a tad contemptuous to your players IMO. 95% of casinos are perfectly happy to let the player take decisions, whether in haste or not, and provide the buttons. A player using TAB to 'protect' a pending withdrawal is not really relevant to most casinos which process fast 24/7. It doesn't mean he has a control issue at all.

Just one last thing - who decides to make these changes, and is any customer research done first? I highly doubt so.

 

[ternur]

Having a need to debate the existence of (especially fairly short) TAB periods, or its primary reasons of existence, seems fairly futile. If any casino would really appreciate their players best interests, there would not be any reversible periods on withdrawals. Period.

Having winnings stay in the account and available to reverse is simply a bait and switch tactic, and fairly questionable in itself. This has been stated in this forum countless times, and it's simply a method which should be a thing in the past.

The business of a reputable casino should be to rely on the house odds of random games and keeping the player base happy to return. Reversible winnings is not a "business decision" or a marketing gimmick to "better serve players needs"; it's depreciating your clients.

 

[Nicola]

Unless I'm missing something, 32Red use the same VIPER software as Casino Rewards, BetWay, PKR etc which all have a built in take a break/self exclusion tab in the banking section. How can it be difficult to implement when it's built in the software by MG?

 

[Deeplay]

Unless I'm missing something, 32Red use the same VIPER software as Casino Rewards, BetWay, PKR etc which all have a built in take a break/self exclusion tab in the banking section. How can it be difficult to implement when it's built in the software by MG?

I think its clear now they do not wish to implement this within the software quote "needed to revert to it being a more considered and deliberate action on the part of the player"

Which means in effect hoping that the time or the effort involved will deter some from using SE. The more I read the above sentence the more offense I take to it. Their is NOTHING to consider.

But it wont change - 32red as someone else said have outgrown the need for validation of forums such as these.

 

[Valhalla]

What on Earth is going on at 32Red lately? I've said before that they are the only reputable casino who seem to be taking intentional backward steps to make their casino... worse

I expect a rep will come along soon and try to put some political spin on this like they did when they first changed the payment system. Red tape, smoke, mirrors.

And as predicted:

Dear All,

(Red tape. Smoke. Mirrors.)

Mark

Well there you have it. As vague and unnecessary as the explanation for the payment system changing that first time.
I don't blame Mark at all, and in many ways I feel for the man. He does do his best and is well liked on these forums for all his work down the years. He's only saying what he's been told to say and I won't shoot the messenger.
But seriously, I will shoot the message because the explanation is horse shit. You know it. I know it. We all know it.

 

[mclee321]

Allowing players to flush withdrawals would remove the need for people to 'abuse' the take a break feature. No use admonishing players after 32Red made the withdrawal process worse. Weekend/Same day withdrawals would remove the need to 'abuse' the take a break feature. Something else 32Red decided was in our best interests.

I feel for Mark having to regurgitate tiresome corporate sophistry, honestly. Nothing is going to change, move along people!

 

[Harry_BKK]

Mark, Mark, Mark, I really don't know what to think when reading your statement. It actually made me speechless to see such an empty and meaningless corporate answer or as Valhalla put it: Red Tape. Smoke. Mirrors. Is everybody at 32RED really thinking that we are not "corporate English" savvy enough to read between the lines??? Example for a corporate answer:

- Highlight that you are committed to the cause
- Give only vague answers to the issue at hand
- Never admit any wrongdoing
- Avoid direct answers to questions raised
- Finish with a thank you

But let's dissect the post paragraph by paragraph:

Firstly apologies for the time taken to reply to the thread. It was a long Bank Holiday, as Max mentioned, and I also wanted to ensure we had addressed some of the issues highlighted before commenting.

Apology accepted, after all it was Easter Weekend. We knew that it will take time to put an answer together. Steve, your compliance manager, only read the thread yesterday, hence i did not expect it any earlier.

First and foremost I want to state that 32Red are committed to responsible gambling. Yes, we have made some changes to procedures surrounding the closure of accounts, but by no means are these to the detriment of player protection. We are proud to be licensed in Gibraltar, Italy and the UK and always strive to operate in a manner that is compliant with the responsibilities placed upon us.

- You are because the MGA/UKGC regulation is asking for it, not because you want to.
- You do just about what is needed, not more and not less. Hence, not even worth mentioning.

Making it more difficult for the average user to find his way through the "jungle" of screens, requesting forms and sending them back - and you state that: "by no means are these to the detriment of player protection"

We constantly review all aspects of our operating procedures and it was evident that our approach to Self-Exclusion needed to revert to it being a more considered and deliberate action on the part of the player. Unfortunately the existing Self Exclusion facility couldn’t be adapted, so we took the decision to reintroduce our previous process, making it available from within the gaming software and without the need to interact with anybody here in order to complete the process.

This is by far the best part of your answer. Wasn't sure whether i should be laughing or crying. OK, step by step:

"it was evident that our approach to Self-Exclusion needed to revert to it being a more considered and deliberate action on the part of the player."

- does this mean that
> you have a high level of SE's?
> you made the changes because you wanted to reduce them?
> if yes, why the need to reduce them?

The regulation says that a SE facility should be provided, no questions asked. But you:

- make the player going through a number of screens and logins
- put the CANCEL button in the face of the player ALL the time
- you "hide" the link to proceed that it hardly can be seen

- is that in your view on being more considered and deliberate????
- instead you could explain in more detail what the consequences a SE has, but you don't, hence the player can't make a more "considered and deliberate" decision.

Unfortunately the existing Self Exclusion facility couldn’t be adapted, so we took the decision to reintroduce our previous process, making it available from within the gaming software and without the need to interact with anybody here in order to complete the process.

- No, it is not available within the gaming software - in contrary: YOU REMOVED IT!!!
- Not true, a player has to interact with an agent, or what would you call sending an email???

Here the screenshot from your gaming software. WHERE IS THE SELF EXCLUSION? It was there together with the TAB before you made the changes. I did a TAB just a few weeks ago, so i know it was.

When the above change was made, we noticed that the automated Take a Break option was also no longer available, as it was part of the same application. We hadn’t realised this and had to make some fairly quick changes to ensure we could still deal with these requests in the timely manner they deserve. A dedicated email was set up (which is given top priority in the queuing system that sits behind the Help Centre) and the pages amended accordingly.

How convenient Mark!!!

If it was part of the same application why are: Session Reminder, Limits, Activity Statement, Time Out still there???? (refer to Screenshot above)

The RG application from MG has all 6 tabs in one application. Two options:

- To my knowledge you cannot remove just one and leave the other. You either have the app fully active with all 6 tabs or not.
- Should this have been changed by MG recently and you can now remove single apps , then you surely can remove just one of the 6 tabs without any effect on the other 5 tabs!!! Right?

Alternatively, if it really was the case you could have gone back to how it was before the change - SE and TAB available online in the RG app - until you found a solution that did not affect the TAB app. I must also question your tech team there, are they not testing changes properly before going live with them???

This thread has highlighted a couple of areas where we could improve this process, we have addressed some of those:

1.- We have now introduced a dedicated line for players who want to discuss their responsible gaming options. Our trained staff will be monitoring this line 24/7 and will be able to offer players instant changes based on their requirements.
2.- It was highlighted that an email link doesn’t always work if a player doesn’t have an email client installed. We have now amended this step to show the dedicated email address to enable someone using a web-based client to copy and paste it.

Partially true Mark.

1. Not true: the dedicated line - this was already there before this thread was started, hence your decision was not made because of this thread
2. True: That is certainly a small improvement.

For those concerned about the time taken for an email to be processed, I am able to share with you that the shortest break requested over the busy Bank Holiday weekend was for 1 week – this was actioned within 19 minutes of the request being received.

Yes, 19 minutes looks certainly quick.

But first the players has to find his way through your, rather intentionally looking, "jungle of pages", all the while the account is still open.

It is important to remember that Take a Break is a facility that is designed to offer individuals a break so as to control their gaming and is not there, as is implied in some of the posts, as a means to protect a withdrawal from being reversed. If there are players who really can't control themselves when they are in that position, then they should contact me to see if there any alternatives available rather than using a function designed for something else. Also, regular and frequent use of a Take a Break facility could be seen as indicating problematic behaviour; we are required to intervene and interact in such circumstances and that is why it is important that the facility is used as it is intended.

TAKING A BREAK = CONTROL THEIR GAMING = PROTECT A WITHDRAWAL FROM BEING REVERSED

So in your view a player protecting himself from reversing is not controlling his gaming???? WHAT ON EARTH IS IT THEN???

Please elaborate what TAB is in 32RED's view???? Alternatively, I can tell you the most likely answer to that one = loss of revenue to 32RED as players will not reverse their winnings.

Players recommended me the TAB to avoid reversals as they TAB'ed many times and have never had any "intervention" from your side, so that argument doesn't hold either Mark.

FYI, other sites encourage the use of TAB .... that is RESPONSIBLE GAMING!!!!

Finally (sorry for the long post), the video showing the steps to live chat in the Viper software highlighted a rather unfriendly player journey which has also been addressed. Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Regards,

I cannot see any change other then that wording on the LIVE CHAT button in the Viper Client has been replaced with HELP CENTRE. The procedure with all the pages and hoops and hurdles is exactly as it has been before. And you are telling us it has been addressed?

We always appreciate if a casino operator listens to our suggestions but please don't pretend that you are taking our advice if clearly no changes are made. People might feel offended as a result of that.

Your contact procedure seems to be designed to avoid direct customer contact as much as possible. And it has not changed, neither in the Viper client nor on the website.

Regards
Harry


P.S. Last but not least, i would like to give you an example of perfect RG, where a casino goes well beyond the regulation requirements. All options available in my profile, all can be self-set and changed by the player. Hence the player is in control, not the casino!!! Maybe 32RED can learn a little from this.

 

[Harry_BKK]

As i said in my previous post - corporate answer = Avoid direct answers to questions raised

Can you please give a direct answer to the rather serious statement and kindly ask Steve to answer the second one???

I've posted about this before, I had a £200 WD pending, and i wanted to take a 7day break so that I wouldn't reverse.

I e-mailed and spoke ton live chat and they tried to persuade me to stay, and left my account active for the whole pending period, I think I was 10 days before it was closed.

I've since vacated 32red, every move they make seems to be backwards, and it's quite disheartening considering I've been playing there for many years.

I'm glad this has been brought up again.

As I've mentioned in numerous threads over the years, I have telephoned 32Red several times to speak to the responsible gaming manager (Steve Finn) who refuses to take my call on this matter.

I have complained to the UKGC, but my complaint was not upheld as 32Red "meet or exceed the criteria required on responsible gaming." I disagree and sure many others would based on the responses on this thread.

32Red is 'old hat' now, a one provider platform (MG) and no withdrawals at weekends. There are dozens of other other casinos listed on CM which provide a higher level of gaming, customer service and responsible gaming.

 

[dionysus]

I'm not saying points above don't have merit nor justifying any of 32Red's decisions.

It's been said by others, but I do feel for Mark. The fact he's 1 of 6 registered CM reps for 32Red and the different departments alone is indicative of the size of the group and breadth of the processes involved in decision making regarding them. Even if one believes his response is corporate-speak, bear in mind, even he has limits in what can be said and done.

Imagine his position working between making us happy and the other side of the (very large) table.

I'm not saying there isn't value in discussion but it's good to remember that Mark specifically is dealing with THIS, the pms and I'm certain 100 other things put toward him, and the fact he's responded, albeit not the response many were hoping for (as indicated even by max) does imo go toward his commitment to players. I can attest my emails are always answered.

I would think Bryan - whom I assume is on holidays - will read the thread in full and act accordingly should anything merit he do so.


ps - this post is NOT directed toward anyone in specificity.

 

[dionysus]

Can you please give a direct answer to these 2 rather serious statements???

Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
I'm glad this has been brought up again.

As I've mentioned in numerous threads over the years, I have telephoned 32Red several times to speak to the responsible gaming manager (Steve Finn) who refuses to take my call on this matter.

I have complained to the UKGC, but my complaint was not upheld as 32Red "meet or exceed the criteria required on responsible gaming." I disagree and sure many others would based on the responses on this thread.

32Red is 'old hat' now, a one provider platform (MG) and no withdrawals at weekends. There are dozens of other other casinos listed on CM which provide a higher level of gaming, customer service and responsible gaming.

With respect Harry, that's not really a fair question to Mark. It's like asking Yits to speak for Tony, Dan for Phil, etc. Steve has a CM acct and logged in as recent as of yesterday. Sholdn't that Q go directly toward him?

 

[Harry_BKK]

I'm not saying points above don't have merit nor justifying any of 32Red's decisions.

It's been said by others, but I do feel for Mark. The fact he's 1 of 6 registered CM reps for 32Red and the different departments alone is indicative of the size of the group and breadth of the processes involved in decision making regarding them. Even if one believes his response is corporate-speak, bear in mind, even he has limits in what can be said and done.

Imagine his position working between making us happy and the other side of the (very large) table.

I'm not saying there isn't value in discussion but it's good to remember that Mark specifically is dealing with THIS, the pms and I'm certain 100 other things put toward him, and the fact he's responded, albeit not the response many were hoping for (as indicated even by max) does imo go toward his commitment to players. I can attest my emails are always answered.

I would think Bryan - whom I assume is on holidays - will read the thread in full and act accordingly should anything merit he do so.


ps - this post is NOT directed toward anyone in specificity.

Poor Mark, shall i pass a hat around for some donations to support him.

I have all respect for Mark doing what he is for us CM members, that has never been questioned. And i repeat myself again: "we shall not kill the messenger".

It is his job and trust me his engagement on CM is measured on a ROI basis like any other 32RED campaign. There would be far less interaction on the forum if the activity in this forum would not be beneficial to 32RED.

6 32RED accounts at CM - makes one wonder why not one of the higher up managers/directors is stepping up to give answers. E.G. like Igor (Igor82) from Bet-At does, always taking the brunt for his employees.

 

[Harry_BKK]

With respect Harry, that's not really a fair question to Mark. It's like asking Yits to speak for Tony, Dan for Phil, etc. Steve has a CM acct and logged in as recent as of yesterday. Sholdn't that Q go directly toward him?

Fair enough. Changed my post accordingly.

 

[dionysus]

6 32RED accounts at CM - so why is not one of the higher up managers/directors stepping up to give answers? E.G. like Igor82 from Bet-At does, taking the brunt for his employees.

Why ask me? Pm them.

Mark_32Red: Head of Marketing
He's our CM rep and helps as able. We can't expect him to speak for everyone and solve every corporate Q.
What he DOES as I've always seen, is answer as best as he's able.

Edit - you edited above as I was typing this.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Why ask me? Pm them.

Mark_32Red: Head of Marketing
He's our CM rep and helps as able. We can't expect him to speak for everyone and solve every corporate Q.
What he DOES as I've always seen, is answer as best as he's able.

Edit - you edited above as I was typing this.

Fair enough again.... post changed accordingly.

 

[pianoman]

32RED: A Boardroom Crisis?

Wow. Lookit them numbers ...

6936 thread views
190 replies
Mark supporters: 2 - 3
32Red Casino loyal & still bankrolling: +/- a few
32Red players exiting ?? ? ? ? ? ?

Hey Don't Shoot Me I'm Only the Piano Player
... and about SelfExclusion I couldn't really give aflyingfuckactually!

 

[jetset]

I think we're mostly in agreement that Mark does a good job and is merely the messenger for 32Red management's clearly unpopular response to the main issue here...therefore may I respectfully suggest that the focus of the thread remain on the RG issue and not repetitive plaudits for Mark's CM activity over the years (as impressive as it is).

 

[Webzcas]

* I went to thank Jetset's post and removed a Thanks by mistake. Sorry!

 

[Harry_BKK]

I think we're mostly in agreement that Mark does a good job and is merely the messenger for 32Red management's clearly unpopular response to the main issue here...therefore may I respectfully suggest that the focus of the thread remain on the RG issue and not repetitive plaudits for Mark's CM activity over the years (as impressive as it is).

Thanks Jetset .....i was getting tired of reminding posters all the time about that

 

[dunover]

I think we're mostly in agreement that Mark does a good job and is merely the messenger for 32Red management's clearly unpopular response to the main issue here...therefore may I respectfully suggest that the focus of the thread remain on the RG issue and not repetitive plaudits for Mark's CM activity over the years (as impressive as it is).

Indeed. Mark is merely the conduit through which the information flows.

It's about the casino, not the person. When I walk away and come back to this thread, I feel the sense that when I play elsewhere, the metaphorical elevator is going upwards and at a point half way up the building I see 32red going down in the adjacent elevator. It's sad in a sense, like your favourite team winning trophy after trophy and then a few years later seeing them relegated down the divisions. You tend to reminisce about 'the glory days'....

As people have said or inferred it's the same old, same old. The thread will be gone and forgotten in a few weeks, in the cellar of archives along with the other ones regarding customer-unfriendly changes that were made. The corporate mentality will be "We've launched the attack, now hunker down in the trenches until the return flak is exhausted then quietly carry on." There may be occasional skirmishes when it crops up in the future, but not on the same scale.

Only this time it may be different. RG is a serious issue and 32red seem to have taken upon themselves to interpret the rules differently from the huge majority of sites as regards SE/TAB. One could say that surely a mistake wouldn't be made on this important subject, but then again they didn't appear to realize how difficult it was to access things on their Viper until the video! I am referring to Max's quote from the UKGC and my reading says that a remote self-set facility should be in place. They don't have it. Perhaps there IS a loophole or a way around this, I don't know I'm not a lawyer.

UKGC:

Paragraph 8 of this provision comes into force on 31 October 2015
8 Customers must be given the opportunity to self-exclude by contacting customer services and in addition by entering an automated process using remote communication. In order to avoid inadvertent self-exclusion it is acceptable for an automated process to include an additional step that requires the customer to confirm that they wish to self-exclude. The licensee must ensure that all staff who are involved in direct customer service are aware of the self-exclusion system in place, and are able to direct that individual to an immediate point of contact with whom/which to complete that process.

UKGC Rules:
5 Licensees should take all reasonable steps to ensure that:

a the minimum self-exclusion period offered is of a duration of not less than 6 nor more than 12 months;
b any self-exclusion may, on request, be extended for one or more further periods of at least 6 months;
c the self-exclusion arrangements give customers the option of selecting a self-exclusion period of up to at least five years;
d a customer who has decided to enter a self-exclusion agreement is given the opportunity to do so immediately without any cooling-off period. However, if the customer wishes to consider the self-exclusion further (for example to discuss with problem gambling groups) the customer may return at a later date to enter into self-exclusion;
e at the end of the period chosen by the customer, self-exclusion remains in place, for a minimum of 7 years, unless the customer takes positive action to gamble again;
f where a customer chooses not to renew, and makes a positive request to begin gambling again, during the 7 year period following the end of their initial self-exclusion, the customer is given one day to cool off before being allowed to access gambling facilities. Contact must be made via phone or in person; re-registering online is not sufficient; and
g notwithstanding the expiry of the period of self-exclusion chosen by a customer, no marketing material should be sent to them unless and until they have asked for or agreed to accept such material.
6 The licensee should retain the records relating to a self-exclusion agreement for as long as is needed to enable the self-exclusion procedures set out in paragraph 5 above to be implemented.....



But even if it is permissible, they are one of very few sites that don't offer it. The reason can only be for financial gain - after all, as Nicola pointed out, it's there in the Viper Client and they CHOSE to remove it. This really does shout out loud the general attitude to their customers.

Lest this thread drag on it's time I made my last contribution, so here it is. I read 32red's hollow, evasive and frankly unsatisfactory reply. A fitting end would be:

"32Red - Simply The Best!" Absolutely, when I joined 4 or 5 years ago.

"32Red - Magnificently Mediocre!" Nowadays.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Summary and changes

Thought we should summarize the whole thread as you would think that, if 32RED takes this forum and the rather important RG issues seriously, we would see some changes after 2 working days.

The issues raised were:

1. Self Exclusion - contrary to the UKGC rules the remote facility (normally embedded in the MG software) was removed and replaced with request to ask for a SE form via phone call or have it sent to players email
2. Take A Break - remote facility (also embedded in the MG software) as required by the UKGC was removed and replaced with contact form/phone number
3. LiveChat - app hidden deep in the Help Centre pages

And below what has happened in the past 2 working days since 32RED had time to react:

1. Self Exclusion

UKGC: Paragraph 8 of this provision comes into force on 31 October 2015

8 Customers must be given the opportunity to self-exclude by contacting customer services and in addition by entering an automated process using remote communication.

As you can see, no change ... Needs contacting 32RED support, which is in violation of the UKGC rules (see also Dunover's post above)

RESULT: 32RED in control, not the player



2. Take A Break

UKGC - Paragraph: Social responsibility code provision 3.3.4 - Remote Time-Out facility

This provision comes into force on 31 October 2015

1. Licensees must offer a "time out" facility for customers.....

Slightly changed, but still needing activation by 32RED, hence it is not remote. Previously it was embedded in the MG software, thus allowing the player to self-set the TAB.

RESULT: 32RED in control, not the player



3. LiveChat

As you can see, again not really a change. Although Mark confirmed that this has been addressed, the only thing they really changed is the name on the button. The LiveChat app remains hidden deep in the pages of the HelpCentre

RESULT: it gives the impression that 32RED does not want to speak to its customers and thinks that changing the name on the button is sufficient



OVERALL RESULT:

32RED gives a "flying monkey" as to the serious issues raised in this forum. Hence sadly, the mentioned "32RED has outgrown the need for validation from this forum" indeed stands.

 

[Jhonson90]

Harry and Dunover users are more experienced than me, have exposed the problem very clearly, the problem exists,
it's undeniable, I think that the RG section it's crucial in psychological appearance of the player and protect it in some way,
as a result the RG section should be able to be managed independently by the player at any time.
I think the RG section, given the importance that covers, should be one of the evaluation parameters
of the rating of a casino.
Cheers.

 

[maxd]

Poor Mark, shall i pass a hat around for some donations to support him.

I have all respect for Mark ...

Obviously you don't have respect for Mark or you wouldn't be making sarcastic -- pointlessly sarcastic I might add -- comments like this.

You guys keep saying "don't shoot the messenger" and then you proceed to backhand him with pissy comments. Crap like that is what drives the reps off of the forums which is good for absolutely no one.

So fair warning: feel free to disagree and cross-examine all you like but keep it respectful: there is no justification for personal attacks here. If you can't tell the difference between expressing dislike for the policy changes and dissing the guy who does his best to explain those policy changes then keep your comments to yourself. If you have questions about what's acceptable ask me via PM; if I have to deal with BS like this here on the forums again it will be with the aid of the ban hammer.

 

[interlog]

All if this reminds me a little of Tesco. They couldn't do any wrong until they grew too big and became a little arrogant. All it resulted in is that they lost customers.

All one can hope for is that 32red doesn't become another Tesco and sees that perhaps the key to success is to keep your customers happy so they don't piss off to the competition.

 

[paul7388]

Obviously you don't have respect for Mark or you wouldn't be making sarcastic -- pointlessly sarcastic I might add -- comments like this.

You guys keep saying "don't shoot the messenger" and then you proceed to backhand him with pissy comments. Crap like that is what drives the reps off of the forums which is good for absolutely no one.

So fair warning: feel free to disagree and cross-examine all you like but keep it respectful: there is no justification for personal attacks here. If you can't tell the difference between expressing dislike for the policy changes and dissing the guy who does his best to explain those policy changes then keep your comments to yourself. If you have questions about what's acceptable ask me via PM; if I have to deal with BS like this here on the forums again it will be with the aid of the ban hammer.

Not adding to this thread as I have my own thoughts on self exclusion and what people with gambling problems should do.

But reading the thread yet again I feel sorry for Mark. Yet again its a very uncomfortable thread for a Rep to deal with and whatever 32RED do its hardly anything he can change.

But Max I totally agree with what you say about treatment of Reps. Ive made posts before about all the various threads where Reps were tore apart.

Then you see all the threads where people ask why such and such a Rep doesnt post anymore and why aren't the reps more active.

Itll get to the stage where no Rep will post and just answer pms etc. when customers are having problems. If I was a Rep for a casino and took half the abuse Reps take on here then no way id be posting. Id only make a post wherever its necessary and check the forum enough to fall in line with accredited rules.

 

[nutnut]

I don't mean to break up the witch hunt, and im no fan of 32red, but can't help feel one or two are little to obsessed with this issue, and maybe carry some personal agenda.

Just don't use them.