Baptism by Fire - success Wintingo

We have no such term on Wintingo, its purely 4k maximum each week, excluding progressive jackpots.

I'm almost falling about laughing at this reply. You glibly post it and in fact it's even WORSE than lucky247's - at least they have to hit the casino for 5x or more lifetime deposits before imposing the 4k weekly limit - you impose it routinely!

No-one doubts you had the winner, there's no reason for you to make it up and face this nonsense of looking small-time pretenders in the casino world by not paying the person more than 4k a week.

All this has achieved for Wintingo so far is a great bloody stonking statement in bold letters:

"HI ROLLER? THEN DON'T PLAY HERE!! WE CAN TAKE THE HIGH DEPOSITS INSTANTLY BUT NOT PAY THE WINNINGS IN A SIMILAR MANNER. PLEASE GO TO LADBROKES OR 32RED"

How much has he been paid thus far? Is he being bombarded with 'special bonus for reversal' offers? Mmmmmm..
 
Yes, the "excluding progressives" bit does not extend to big wins like the high roller from the Netherlands (betting $100 a spin:eek:). So, he will get paid +100K over a period of more than 25 weeks... Man, he must be pissed!
 
have you paid the guy/girl all there money or is it being paid at 4k per week ?, also why would there be a full audit because someone won a 100k plus ? im thinking the software is bullit proof cant be tampered so why a audit ? ? ?

Yes, we have paid the player a significant amount of the winnings already. The audit is done by MGS automatically, we did not request it so i cant comment as to why its done but i can only assume because its a large amount.
 
I'm almost falling about laughing at this reply. You glibly post it and in fact it's even WORSE than lucky247's - at least they have to hit the casino for 5x or more lifetime deposits before imposing the 4k weekly limit - you impose it routinely!

No-one doubts you had the winner, there's no reason for you to make it up and face this nonsense of looking small-time pretenders in the casino world by not paying the person more than 4k a week.

All this has achieved for Wintingo so far is a great bloody stonking statement in bold letters:

"HI ROLLER? THEN DON'T PLAY HERE!! WE CAN TAKE THE HIGH DEPOSITS INSTANTLY BUT NOT PAY THE WINNINGS IN A SIMILAR MANNER. PLEASE GO TO LADBROKES OR 32RED"

How much has he been paid thus far? Is he being bombarded with 'special bonus for reversal' offers? Mmmmmm..

Ok, lets put this issue to rest if possible, below is a copy of a private message i had sent Bryan on the 17th July regarding this big win and the press release we sent out. I have removed some names and personal info where necessary, apart from that, its word for word.

"Just so you know (and please keep this private), we are not obliged, and neither is the winning player, to release to the public how we/they choose to receive their winnings and what they do with their winnings. In terms of paying the player, our terms and conditions follow an industry accepted guideline of a set amount every week (excludes progressive winnings which are paid in one lump sum) until the funds are completely paid in full. In most countries around the world, the same rule applies to national lotteries.

Our terms are way above or at least equal to the the current industry standard, especially when compared to operators much larger then us i.e. a large portion of ------ brands, -----, ------, ------ and countless others. These are all huge operators within our industry and i'm sure you have seen can in many instances dictate how the industry and operators treat or mistreat their customers.

Wintingo is a small and dedicated outfit, trying to do right by players because we believe that our boutique approach is the only thing that can set us apart from the competitors listed above. This is illustrated by our unique Cashpay program which a number of your well known members have agreed is ingenious and good for customers. Our results and customer feedback show us that our approach works.

We took the decision to break our own terms and reach a much more rewarding (for the player) payment plan. The player hit the win on the 10th July, considering there was a weekend soon after, we did the full KYC process, got confirmation from microgaming about the win, got sign off from the IOM for AML laws and we paid the player 50k of his winnings, which he already received earlier this morning into his bank account. The balance of his winnings will be paid in increments of 10k every week. This was agreed with the player in writing and the player is extremely appreciative of this.

We are in no way forcing the player to reverse or coercing him in anyway. We did not put words in his mouth and tell him what to say in the questionnaire, there is a specific reason why i decided to post these questions and the info on CM forum as its much more legitimate then putting this info on our own website
"


Now, i will admit that we should have paid more attention to the wording of the original press release and made it much clearer that the player was not paid in full yet and to also include what the players original bet amount was. This was an error on our side and will make sure it wont happen again next time.
 
I can see why Wintingo is getting some heat here, but they are not the only casino to have max withdrawal limits although I will say most of the ones that do are a lot more generous than 4k. By having these limits you would think most high rollers would take there cash and run once they found out.

This is one of my pet peeves with this industry. If you are going to limit what a player can withdraw then you should be limiting what a player can deposit and you most definitely should not be excepting bets of $300 ($30 is pushing it) a spin if you have such limits.

If you have cashout limits it looks as though you have cash flow problems and is mind boggling why you would think offering people $300 a spin is a good idea (do you know what the win potential could be?). But then again someone betting $300 a spin (and losing) is keeping the cash flowing to pay out those other winners of their 4k a week. This gives the perception of greed in my eyes, hey you can lose what ever you like but don't expect us to pay you out straight away.
 
Last edited:
Our terms are way above or at least equal to the the current industry standard, especially when compared to operators much larger then us i.e. a large portion of ------ brands, -----, ------, ------ and countless others. These are all huge operators within our industry and i'm sure you have seen can in many instances dictate how the industry and operators treat or mistreat their customers.

This line annoys me so much, I have seen casinos spin it before. "Our terms are like 20 other casinos" or "Our terms are within industry standards" and so on. You follow the pack and you do not stand out and that's why the best of the best do stand out and have players flocking to them.
 
Yes, we have paid the player a significant amount of the winnings already. The audit is done by MGS automatically, we did not request it so i cant comment as to why its done but i can only assume because its a large amount.

To be honest & as some other forum members have pointed out , this term should be struck off away from CM here its a side step for a fair ammount of casinos allowing them to take the pi$$ with large withdrawals

great that youve coughed up 50k ,this does show a goodwill gesture ,but to be honest i wouldnt be that happy as a player if i was depositing & playing 300 quid a spin i would be looking for a full payment i would hate to think how much went in before he got this hit

the ( metlax ) guy in winner screen shot the other had two monster hits on thai paradise & another game im recalling the guy was paid in full this is a playtech casino they dont have such a good rep as micro gaming ( although ive never had any problems ) so why is it they can pay in full & some mg sites cant ? ? it cannot be just cash flow , any casino should have the funds to cover all large bets if your or any other casino cant pay out a win of a 100k plus in one go they shouldnt be taking any bets over 25 quid per spins as its clear they cant pay in one .
 
Personally, I think it's entirely up to any casino how much they're willing to pay out each week as long as they make it obvious in the terms and conditions. Anyone who can afford to spin 300 bucks a pop on a slot game must be at least intelligent enough to understand the sentence "4k per week." They must know it'll take 25 weeks to get their money if they win 100k.

If someone's going to place 300 dollar wagers they should have enough sense to find a casino that's going to honor their winnings in a shorter time span. It's not like the casino is refusing to pay. They're doing exactly what they said they'll do and exactly what the player agreed to before he started spinning.
 
Personally, I think it's entirely up to any casino how much they're willing to pay out each week as long as they make it obvious in the terms and conditions. Anyone who can afford to spin 300 bucks a pop on a slot game must be at least intelligent enough to understand the sentence "4k per week." They must know it'll take 25 weeks to get their money if they win 100k.

If someone's going to place 300 dollar wagers they should have enough sense to find a casino that's going to honor their winnings in a shorter time span. It's not like the casino is refusing to pay. They're doing exactly what they said they'll do and exactly what the player agreed to before he started spinning.

you make a valid point , but i cant agree to weekly max payment or is it more likely that a select few of mg casinos are truely under funded :confused:
 
Ok, lets put this issue to rest if possible, below is a copy of a private message i had sent Bryan on the 17th July regarding this big win and the press release we sent out. I have removed some names and personal info where necessary, apart from that, its word for word.

"Just so you know (and please keep this private), we are not obliged, and neither is the winning player, to release to the public how we/they choose to receive their winnings and what they do with their winnings. In terms of paying the player, our terms and conditions follow an industry accepted guideline of a set amount every week (excludes progressive winnings which are paid in one lump sum) until the funds are completely paid in full. In most countries around the world, the same rule applies to national lotteries.

Our terms are way above or at least equal to the the current industry standard, especially when compared to operators much larger then us i.e. a large portion of ------ brands, -----, ------, ------ and countless others. These are all huge operators within our industry and i'm sure you have seen can in many instances dictate how the industry and operators treat or mistreat their customers.

Wintingo is a small and dedicated outfit, trying to do right by players because we believe that our boutique approach is the only thing that can set us apart from the competitors listed above. This is illustrated by our unique Cashpay program which a number of your well known members have agreed is ingenious and good for customers. Our results and customer feedback show us that our approach works.

We took the decision to break our own terms and reach a much more rewarding (for the player) payment plan. The player hit the win on the 10th July, considering there was a weekend soon after, we did the full KYC process, got confirmation from microgaming about the win, got sign off from the IOM for AML laws and we paid the player 50k of his winnings, which he already received earlier this morning into his bank account. The balance of his winnings will be paid in increments of 10k every week. This was agreed with the player in writing and the player is extremely appreciative of this.

We are in no way forcing the player to reverse or coercing him in anyway. We did not put words in his mouth and tell him what to say in the questionnaire, there is a specific reason why i decided to post these questions and the info on CM forum as its much more legitimate then putting this info on our own website
"


Now, i will admit that we should have paid more attention to the wording of the original press release and made it much clearer that the player was not paid in full yet and to also include what the players original bet amount was. This was an error on our side and will make sure it wont happen again next time.

Yes, you did shoot yourselves in the foot with the original wording. I also accept Skiny's POV that it was daft of the player to deposit there WITHOUT checking the terms properly, which I agree he can't have done if he was playing 300 a spin. So, yes I suppose the player would be happy with your proposal, and in your words being a 'small boutique outfit' SURELY it would be disingenuous of you not to reduce your max stakes on games accordingly and commensurately with your weekly payout limits.
Thanks for filling is in here, no-one is suggesting Wintingo are crooked or don't pay, I know you pay from personal experience - BUT you can't have your cake and eat it. You and all these sites that impose this limit should be fair and reduce your max stakes to limit the likelihood of a player becoming the victim of the limit, and indeed of you taking another 6-figure hit.
 
you make a valid point , but i cant agree to weekly max payment or is it more likely that a select few of mg casinos are truely under funded :confused:

I agree the wager limits aren't really proportional to the withdraw limits but it's probably better than not setting these withdrawal limits and then finding out later they don't have the credit to cover a huge hit or even worse 3 or 4 huge hits in one week.

Then they'll be making excuses later why they can't pay instead of being realistic with their limitations in advance.

It's not an unreasonable term. It's just not a term that high rollers are going to be happy with. My experience with Microgaming casinos is that I'm lucky if I see 40 dollars over my deposit. I'd be more than happy to be waiting a second week for my next 4k withdrawal.

Maybe next year they can double it. Maybe 5 years from now they can remove it. There's too many casinos out there being completely irresponsible. I just don't feel right cracking down on this one for doing the opposite.
 
I agree the wager limits aren't really proportional to the withdraw limits but it's probably better than not setting these withdrawal limits and then finding out later they don't have the credit to cover a huge hit or even worse 3 or 4 huge hits in one week.

Then they'll be making excuses later why they can't pay instead of being realistic with their limitations in advance.

It's not an unreasonable term. It's just not a term that high rollers are going to be happy with. My experience with Microgaming casinos is that I'm lucky if I see 40 dollars over my deposit. I'd be more than happy to be waiting a second week for my next 4k withdrawal.

Maybe next year they can double it. Maybe 5 years from now they can remove it. There's too many casinos out there being completely irresponsible. I just don't feel right cracking down on this one for doing the opposite.

Yes, it's not illogical what they do, but as you say they should make it clearer in their terms that for example 'due to our 4k weekly payout limit, should you be placing large bets that significantly increase the chances of payout(s) in excess of this amount, be aware total payment of winnings may not be to our usual timescale'.

I think many players are nervous when they see these limits because the payment of their winnings may depend on the longevity of the casino itself over many months, and of course RedRabbit/Purple Lounge would have failed to complete the instalments. Then the very limit itself suggests to some that the casino may not be well funded and therefore is at an increased risk of insolvency if a player hits big.
 
Yes, it's not illogical what they do, but as you say they should make it clearer in their terms that for example 'due to our 4k weekly payout limit, should you be placing large bets that significantly increase the chances of payout(s) in excess of this amount, be aware total payment of winnings may not be to our usual timescale'.

I think many players are nervous when they see these limits because the payment of their winnings may depend on the longevity of the casino itself over many months, and of course RedRabbit/Purple Lounge would have failed to complete the instalments. Then the very limit itself suggests to some that the casino may not be well funded and therefore is at an increased risk of insolvency if a player hits big.

I hear what you are saying here and its a valid point. For example, look at the past issues with Fulltiltpoker and their "ponzy scheme" under their license in Alderney. Since this whole thing broke, as far as we see, majority of the top tier licensing jurisdictions are putting very strict measures in place to avoid this from every happening again. I'm sure most operators see this. Obviously, its a good thing for players and the industry as a whole.

In terms of wintingo players, I would like to clarify that player balances AND player liability (unpaid-winnings), regardless of when the customer receives their winnings i.e. whether its paid in one lump sum or its paid in weekly installments, the entire amount needs to be kept and secured in a completely segregated account and Wintingo management and directors cannot under any circumstances access these funds. This falls under rules and regulations of our Isle of Man license and therefore assures players that no matter what happens to Wintingo as a business, players funds are always protected.

With regards to changing the max bet sizes in order to be more inline with our current weekly withdrawal limit, i'm waiting for conformation from MGS but i don't think its actually possible in the Quickfire environment, its very much standardised across the board across all operators however i put the question forward. Maybe other quickfire operators on CM can comment on this? Apart from this, we admit that we will review the current weekly withdrawal limits and come up with a better alternative.
 
I hear what you are saying here and its a valid point. For example, look at the past issues with Fulltiltpoker and their "ponzy scheme" under their license in Alderney. Since this whole thing broke, as far as we see, majority of the top tier licensing jurisdictions are putting very strict measures in place to avoid this from every happening again. I'm sure most operators see this. Obviously, its a good thing for players and the industry as a whole.

In terms of wintingo players, I would like to clarify that player balances AND player liability (unpaid-winnings), regardless of when the customer receives their winnings i.e. whether its paid in one lump sum or its paid in weekly installments, the entire amount needs to be kept and secured in a completely segregated account and Wintingo management and directors cannot under any circumstances access these funds. This falls under rules and regulations of our Isle of Man license and therefore assures players that no matter what happens to Wintingo as a business, players funds are always protected.

With regards to changing the max bet sizes in order to be more inline with our current weekly withdrawal limit, i'm waiting for conformation from MGS but i don't think its actually possible in the Quickfire environment, its very much standardised across the board across all operators however i put the question forward. Maybe other quickfire operators on CM can comment on this? Apart from this, we admit that we will review the current weekly withdrawal limits and come up with a better alternative.

So if I win a hundred thousand you have the money sitting in an account somewhere that you can't touch but still you bleed it out to me in small installments? What's the point? Other than earning interest on my money why do you hold it? And for that matter, do I get the interest you earned on it when you're done holding it?
 
I hear what you are saying here and its a valid point. For example, look at the past issues with Fulltiltpoker and their "ponzy scheme" under their license in Alderney. Since this whole thing broke, as far as we see, majority of the top tier licensing jurisdictions are putting very strict measures in place to avoid this from every happening again. I'm sure most operators see this. Obviously, its a good thing for players and the industry as a whole.

In terms of wintingo players, I would like to clarify that player balances AND player liability (unpaid-winnings), regardless of when the customer receives their winnings i.e. whether its paid in one lump sum or its paid in weekly installments, the entire amount needs to be kept and secured in a completely segregated account and Wintingo management and directors cannot under any circumstances access these funds. This falls under rules and regulations of our Isle of Man license and therefore assures players that no matter what happens to Wintingo as a business, players funds are always protected.

With regards to changing the max bet sizes in order to be more inline with our current weekly withdrawal limit, i'm waiting for conformation from MGS but i don't think its actually possible in the Quickfire environment, its very much standardised across the board across all operators however i put the question forward. Maybe other quickfire operators on CM can comment on this? Apart from this, we admit that we will review the current weekly withdrawal limits and come up with a better alternative.

I have had some pretty big wins, £52K at 32Red and £66K at Lucky Nugget. Unlike the scenario at Wintingo, the "industry standard" as far as my experience has gone has been a weekly limit of £52K at 32Red and £66K at Lucky Nugget.

Were I to "empty a fruitie" at Wintingo, I would get an atypical experience of receiving £4000 per week. The regular "empty" can be between £10K and £25K, the rare exception is higher. I would be repeatedly falling foul of "instalment schemes" were Wintingo to suffer the extraordinarily bad luck of me emptying each of their fruities.

One CAN "deposit in instalments" though, just deposit and bet lower according to the weekly limits. High rolling can be done at casinos without such limits.

Having this limit seen as "standard" at Flash based casinos, and very rare at download casinos, leads to the impression that the Flash casinos are less well funded than the download casinos.

There is also a big problem with this statement:-

In terms of wintingo players, I would like to clarify that player balances AND player liability (unpaid-winnings), regardless of when the customer receives their winnings i.e. whether its paid in one lump sum or its paid in weekly installments, the entire amount needs to be kept and secured in a completely segregated account and Wintingo management and directors cannot under any circumstances access these funds. This falls under rules and regulations of our Isle of Man license and therefore assures players that no matter what happens to Wintingo as a business, players funds are always protected.

The rules for securing players' funds are the same at the LGA (Malta), but this didn't protect Purple Lounge players, nor the players of a number of LGA licensed operations that went bust in the past taking players' money with them. Even now, there is yet another LGA licensed operation (a niche one) that is in the process of going bust and taking players' funds with them. Players can see that the LGA just don't learn from past mistakes.

Even the more highly respected Alderney authorities dropped the ball over Full Tilt, and then demonstrated that it was the operators, not themselves, that really call the shots when they broke their own rules to hold their inquiry in private after pressure from investors, and despite pressure from PLAYERS for a proper public inquiry.

How can we trust 100% that the IOM is unique in that such a disaster would be "impossible" under their regime.

It's unfortunate, but so many other jurisdictions and operators have shafted players over this that the trust is all but gone. This would make players nervous about any long term instalment plan unless the casino gave the player cast iron proof, such as a purchased annuity to cover the payments, or a verifiable independent insurance policy guaranteeing the win will be paid no matter what happens to the operator.

What WILL bring back the trust is for an IOM based operator to go bust, and then players seeing the IOM regulators stepping in and making sure all player balances are paid from the segregated accounts right away.
 
I have had some pretty big wins, £52K at 32Red and £66K at Lucky Nugget. Unlike the scenario at Wintingo, the "industry standard" as far as my experience has gone has been a weekly limit of £52K at 32Red and £66K at Lucky Nugget.

Were I to "empty a fruitie" at Wintingo, I would get an atypical experience of receiving £4000 per week. The regular "empty" can be between £10K and £25K, the rare exception is higher. I would be repeatedly falling foul of "instalment schemes" were Wintingo to suffer the extraordinarily bad luck of me emptying each of their fruities.

One CAN "deposit in instalments" though, just deposit and bet lower according to the weekly limits. High rolling can be done at casinos without such limits.

Having this limit seen as "standard" at Flash based casinos, and very rare at download casinos, leads to the impression that the Flash casinos are less well funded than the download casinos.

There is also a big problem with this statement:-



The rules for securing players' funds are the same at the LGA (Malta), but this didn't protect Purple Lounge players, nor the players of a number of LGA licensed operations that went bust in the past taking players' money with them. Even now, there is yet another LGA licensed operation (a niche one) that is in the process of going bust and taking players' funds with them. Players can see that the LGA just don't learn from past mistakes.

Even the more highly respected Alderney authorities dropped the ball over Full Tilt, and then demonstrated that it was the operators, not themselves, that really call the shots when they broke their own rules to hold their inquiry in private after pressure from investors, and despite pressure from PLAYERS for a proper public inquiry.

How can we trust 100% that the IOM is unique in that such a disaster would be "impossible" under their regime.

It's unfortunate, but so many other jurisdictions and operators have shafted players over this that the trust is all but gone. This would make players nervous about any long term instalment plan unless the casino gave the player cast iron proof, such as a purchased annuity to cover the payments, or a verifiable independent insurance policy guaranteeing the win will be paid no matter what happens to the operator.

What WILL bring back the trust is for an IOM based operator to go bust, and then players seeing the IOM regulators stepping in and making sure all player balances are paid from the segregated accounts right away.

IMO the LGA have proven on numerous occasions that they are not abiding by their stated mandate. The Isle of Man is a different proposition all together, time will tell of course, if and when an IOM operator goes bust. (note: i haven't done actual in depth research into whether an IOM operator has gone bust, i just haven't heard of one in the last 5 years)
 
IMO the LGA have proven on numerous occasions that they are not abiding by their stated mandate. The Isle of Man is a different proposition all together, time will tell of course, if and when an IOM operator goes bust. (note: i haven't done actual in depth research into whether an IOM operator has gone bust, i just haven't heard of one in the last 5 years)

Not exactly a reassuring answer but then again banks have clauses that limit their liability in the event of a financial meltdown, so I suppose nothing is set in stone.
 
Having this limit seen as "standard" at Flash based casinos, and very rare at download casinos, leads to the impression that the Flash casinos are less well funded than the download casinos.

There are MANY download casinos that have withdrawal restrictions in place. Many of them are also accredited CM casinos such as your earlier examples of Lucky nugget and 32red. As you mention, it was "your" personal experience so therefore it seems to be discretionary at many casinos. At Wintingo, we also took a discretionary approach and we paid 50k up front and 10k weekly instead of 4k weekly. I believe we do need to update our terms to reflect its discretionary nature.

Lucky Nugget terms state:

Players who withdraw a sum of money that is 5 times or more greater than their lifetime deposits across the Casino Group will liable for detailed game and play review and only be able to withdraw their winnings at a sum of €4,000 per week. The remaining amount will be placed back in the player's account until such time that they are eligible for a further withdrawal. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause

32red terms have an interesting restriction:

The maximum payout for any one 24-hour period for any one customer is £120,000 in the casino and £100,000 on the poker network. The daily maximum payout in the casino excludes winnings on 32Red's progressive casino games, payouts of which are governed by the Jackpot amount.
 
There are MANY download casinos that have withdrawal restrictions in place. Many of them are also accredited CM casinos such as your earlier examples of Lucky nugget and 32red. As you mention, it was "your" personal experience so therefore it seems to be discretionary at many casinos. At Wintingo, we also took a discretionary approach and we paid 50k up front and 10k weekly instead of 4k weekly. I believe we do need to update our terms to reflect its discretionary nature.

Lucky Nugget terms state:



32red terms have an interesting restriction:

I think 120k at 32red per day is a ridiculous comparison to 4k per week. Come on!!
 
I hear what you are saying here and its a valid point. For example, look at the past issues with Fulltiltpoker and their "ponzy scheme" under their license in Alderney. Since this whole thing broke, as far as we see, majority of the top tier licensing jurisdictions are putting very strict measures in place to avoid this from every happening again. I'm sure most operators see this. Obviously, its a good thing for players and the industry as a whole.

In terms of wintingo players, I would like to clarify that player balances AND player liability (unpaid-winnings), regardless of when the customer receives their winnings i.e. whether its paid in one lump sum or its paid in weekly installments, the entire amount needs to be kept and secured in a completely segregated account and Wintingo management and directors cannot under any circumstances access these funds. This falls under rules and regulations of our Isle of Man license and therefore assures players that no matter what happens to Wintingo as a business, players funds are always protected.

With regards to changing the max bet sizes in order to be more inline with our current weekly withdrawal limit, i'm waiting for conformation from MGS but i don't think its actually possible in the Quickfire environment, its very much standardised across the board across all operators however i put the question forward. Maybe other quickfire operators on CM can comment on this? Apart from this, we admit that we will review the current weekly withdrawal limits and come up with a better alternative.


JMO when a bet/gamble is made and lost the money lost becomes the property of the Casino, conversely once a bet/gamble has been made and won the winnings no longer belongs to the Casino it becomes the property of the player, so while keeping player funds protected in a separate account may be admirable it is totally pointless, why hang on to money that is no longer yours, give it to it's rightful owner, they will probably be back spending it in no time.

Al
 
Having gone through the recent posts I think the thread title is appropriate. I would suggest running the BOF process all over again.
 
Having gone through the recent posts I think the thread title is appropriate. I would suggest running the BOF process all over again.

If need be, we have no problem with this and we welcome any constructive feedback and suggested improvements. I will wait to hear from CM regarding this.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Click here for Red Cherry Casino

Meister Ratings

Back
Top