This is what happens when you win too many times!

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
This isn't a complaint cause I really had no intention of depositing at Bet Phoenix again, mainly because of some things that have happened with my payouts and the length of time it takes to get paid.

I guess when you win on their large deposit bonuses with large playthrus and max cashouts, they don't want your money anymore. Dean told me over the phone that I wouldn't be able to take more than a 400% bonus anymore but he didn't tell me I couldn't take any at all. FYI, I have deposited there without bonuses too. And I didn't even put in a coupon code cause this is what it says.

Before I get tagged by some, I know it's the casinos right to give or not give bonuses.
 
The title of you post is so vague I almost didn't open it.

Regarding their payments, how long did it take for the last one?
 
Wanted to titled it "BP - Bite Me" but thought that might be a little too nasty.
:D

I made 3 withdrawals and each one was paid in 5 days. However, I had to call and make a pest of myself to get paid within that time frame.

The 2nd withdrawal I had 2 extensive conversations with CS about cashing out to Western Union to have it in hand quicker (5 days to QT then 3 days to bank, excluding weekends is too long). On day 5 I called and Dean told me that if I changed it to QT, he would pay me right then. So I did and he did.

Next withdrawal I requested to be paid to Moneygram (same conversation, same reasoning) but money was put back in my account with no notification. Called and left message for Dean. He called me back and told me that I couldn't use Moneygram or Western Union that it was just for people who deposited that way (CS never told me that nor did he when I requested WU the 2nd deposit). So, had to go back and make withdrawal to QT. This was when he told me that I was way ahead of the casino and wouldn't be eligible for any bonus higher than 400%. Never told me I couldn't have any.

I won 2 randoms during 2 of these withdrawals which is what enabled me to make playthru. Just lucky.

There were other strange things that happened. Casino just gave me an uneasy feeling.
 
FYI, each withdrawal was on a max cashout bonus. I played on after I reached playthru and max just to not look like a bonus abuser. But once you reach max cashout, there isn't much use going any further. :)
 
Slotjunkie, you are right but didn't work on me. Made sure that I didn't play my winnings back.

As for the comps, I think I managed about $7 worth. Not much at all.
 
Tough situation there Annie.

Here's the positive side of things... There are plenty of other accredited casinos who will not jerk you
around and frown because you won a little money using their bonuses.

LOL! Imagine a land casino giving you $50 free spins on your players card and then after winning a bit
using their money, they send you a letter in the mail weeks later after cashing out saying,
"Sorry partner, but your just too ahead of our casino, so no more bonuses or free plays for you":rolleyes:
 
Oh I'm not worried about it, Dr. I don't have but 3 casinos I play at and BP wasn't one of them. Lol!

It's just that now they have lost any hope of ever getting anything back from me.
 
Oh I'm not worried about it, Dr. I don't have but 3 casinos I play at and BP wasn't one of them. Lol!

It's just that now they have lost any hope of ever getting anything back from me.

It doesn't make sense, except that it has become apparent that winners are feared and despised in the casino world. In this economic climate we are seeing more of this.
 
It doesn't make sense, except that it has become apparent that winners are feared and despised in the casino world. In this economic climate we are seeing more of this.

Plain stupid in this case. If it wasn't for the RJs the OP probably wouldn't be ahead at the casino.

Confusing LUCK with "advantage play" again.

The problem is that this is a SECRET rule, and never seen in the terms and conditions that getting ahead reduces your bonuses.

I have been bonus banned from LOADS of casinos for winning too much:D

These are mainly accredited casinos, or "good to go".

I've even caned WINWARD:p (They sure as hell ain't getting any back).
 
Thank You...I was considering making a deposit there... Cheers Betphoenix .. You just lost a good few thousands worth of deposits from me.. Ill take my business elsewhere .. where you get paid on time and also where they dont have such Phantom rules.

Im not a Bonus player - prefer to play without one.. but there are too many issues popping up with this casino and i HATE it when fellow players get the run around:thumbsup:.

Nate
 
Thank You...I was considering making a deposit there... Cheers Betphoenix .. You just lost a good few thousands worth of deposits from me.. Ill take my business elsewhere .. where you get paid on time and also where they dont have such Phantom rules.

This part makes it sound like we don't pay on time, or like we have phantom rules. Everything was done per our Terms and Conditions.

Im not a Bonus player - prefer to play without one.. but there are too many issues popping up with this casino and i HATE it when fellow players get the run around:thumbsup:.

Nate

No one got the run around. We told the player out flat what the player's status is.

And for the record, we don't bonus ban based on winnings, that would be crazy. There are protocols for finding negative value players. As a business, we must do this. It is nothing personal, I personally wish players we bonus ban luck at other casinos. And it may not even be about a advantage play. There are simply people who it will cost us more to entertain them, than we will make.

We want to provide a stellar service, faster payouts, and better promos. To do this, we need to conduct our business wisely.

If you don't use bonuses, we actually just put out a system where instead of bonuses players get 10% weekly cash back (in cash, no play through, no max, fully cash able) and $1 comp per $1000 wagered. This is something players can opt into (and we have marketing materials for affiliates to promote this). This was actually created in response to feedback we have received right here on Casinomeister as well as private correspondence regarding on our comp system.

We aim to please, and I think we are pretty good at it, I think player's wouldn't be complaining when we bonus ban them if they weren't interested in what we have to offer. In the end, we only bonus ban a very small percentage of players. :)

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager
 
Nicolas, management should look at the broader picture, especially when they bonus ban a CM member. For that 1 person you bonus ban, who posts on CM, you may have 10 or more customers who will not deposit because of what they read. All publicity is not good publicity. Still, however, the casino is within their right to do so, of course.
 
Nicolas,

Nowhere in my posts did I say that Bet Phoenix didn't pay me. However, you know, as well as I do, what went on to get me paid in 5 days. And you were also privy to other things that happened with my withdrawals.

As for bonus banning, Dean told me flat out on the telephone that since I was way ahead of the casino that I wouldn't be eligible for bonuses over 400%, not that I was banned period. I asked CS prior to finding out that I couldn't use any bonuses what the status was and 'Sam' sent me to the promo page. So I trot over to the promo page and pick out one. Went back to the cashier page, hit redeem coupon and there it was.

I deposited plenty of times and lost. I just happen to get lucky three times.

Bet Phoenix is perfectly within their right to deny bonuses to anyone. Odds are that you would eventually get all the money back I had won if you allowed me to keep on playing like I was.

Just don't try to make it look like I am some kind of advantage player or bonus abuser. I took what bonuses were offered to me and got really, really lucky.
 
In addition to my last post, I had better luck playing at Bet Phoenix than any other RTG. Only won 2 RJ in my life and both were there. However, the 5-7 day hold before payment just flat out stinks.

When there is a cap on what you can withdraw, then when you get to that amount, what's left to do? If a player is paid with 72 hrs., they will redeposit cause they are still riding the high of winning. Make them wait a week and the fun goes right out the window and turns to being PO'd.

Just my opinion.
 
There are protocols for finding negative value players

A nice way of saying "those that have won more than they deposited."

C'mon. You guys have max cashout rules on 99% of your standard bonuses, so you're limiting your losses there. So why would you want to even think about banning anyone from bonuses?

Do you guys not realize that a player that only hits the slots is going to be a losing player, overall? With insane WR's and maximum cashouts on bonuses, it's like hitting the lottery to even think about cashing out on a consistent basis. Have you ever heard of luck?

And in this case, that's all it was..luck. As mentioned before, if they didn't hit those RJ, more than likely they wouldn't have ever been able to cashout 2 of those times.

It all boils down to this: Don't penalize a player because they know when to withdraw.

I bet you'd have no problem in offering a player bonuses for life if they consistently took a bonus and close to the max cashout amount regularly after meeting the WR, but yet they always play it all back. I'm sure that type of player doesn't fall into your "negative value player" category.

And c'mon. 5 days to QT? It's an EWALLET, for chrissakes.
 
Nicolas, management should look at the broader picture, especially when they bonus ban a CM member. For that 1 person you bonus ban, who posts on CM, you may have 10 or more customers who will not deposit because of what they read. All publicity is not good publicity. Still, however, the casino is within their right to do so, of course.

We do look at the broader picture. That is why a CM member is treated like any other player. It would be unethical of us to treat a casinomeister member differently just because he/she is from Casinomeister.

We also can't allow a situation to develop where 'either you give me this, or I'll slander you'. I'm not saying this is the situation now, simply that it happens all to often to us where players make unreasonable demands under threat of 'going to the forums'. If you ever threaten us with that, we will simply reply, you are free to visit and post on any forums you want. We do this because we have nothing to hide. Again, it would be unethical and counter productive to act otherwise.

We believe that if we treat all our players, regardless of forum affiliation, fairly, give them generous bonuses, be honest and open and give great service, that will shine through any possible issues with players we no longer want.

In fact, if players are angry because we don't let them into our casino/use our bonuses, that tells us that we must have something going; I don't see threads of players angry they were banned from Rogue casinos, generally players are happy when that happens (unless winnings are withheld; but then it isn't anger over the banning, but rather the disputed winnings). In general people only get angry over getting restricted from somewhere if that place is good.

Nicolas,

Nowhere in my posts did I say that Bet Phoenix didn't pay me. However, you know, as well as I do, what went on to get me paid in 5 days. And you were also privy to other things that happened with my withdrawals.

As for bonus banning, Dean told me flat out on the telephone that since I was way ahead of the casino that I wouldn't be eligible for bonuses over 400%, not that I was banned period. I asked CS prior to finding out that I couldn't use any bonuses what the status was and 'Sam' sent me to the promo page. So I trot over to the promo page and pick out one. Went back to the cashier page, hit redeem coupon and there it was.

I deposited plenty of times and lost. I just happen to get lucky three times.

Bet Phoenix is perfectly within their right to deny bonuses to anyone. Odds are that you would eventually get all the money back I had won if you allowed me to keep on playing like I was.

Just don't try to make it look like I am some kind of advantage player or bonus abuser. I took what bonuses were offered to me and got really, really lucky.

I never said you are an advantage player. I said we bonus restrict negative value players. The two are not the same.

In addition to my last post, I had better luck playing at Bet Phoenix than any other RTG. Only won 2 RJ in my life and both were there. However, the 5-7 day hold before payment just flat out stinks.

When there is a cap on what you can withdraw, then when you get to that amount, what's left to do? If a player is paid with 72 hrs., they will redeposit cause they are still riding the high of winning. Make them wait a week and the fun goes right out the window and turns to being PO'd.

Just my opinion.

We are planning on lowering our payout time frames. However, until we do, players know what our payout time frame is; we make this clear and they accepted it. We are honest and transparent and this thread seems to imply otherwise. We simply bonus restricted 1 player, that is all that this thread is about.

A nice way of saying "those that have won more than they deposited."

No, it is not the same.

C'mon. You guys have max cashout rules on 99% of your standard bonuses, so you're limiting your losses there. So why would you want to even think about banning anyone from bonuses?

Do you guys not realize that a player that only hits the slots is going to be a losing player, overall? With insane WR's and maximum cashouts on bonuses, it's like hitting the lottery to even think about cashing out on a consistent basis. Have you ever heard of luck?

And in this case, that's all it was..luck. As mentioned before, if they didn't hit those RJ, more than likely they wouldn't have ever been able to cashout 2 of those times.

It all boils down to this: Don't penalize a player because they know when to withdraw.

We don't penalize players for withdrawing. You are assuming that. We simply restrict negative value players in order to provide better service to the rest of our players. A perfectly reasonable proposition.

I bet you'd have no problem in offering a player bonuses for life if they consistently took a bonus and close to the max cashout amount regularly after meeting the WR, but yet they always play it all back. I'm sure that type of player doesn't fall into your "negative value player" category.

And c'mon. 5 days to QT? It's an EWALLET, for chrissakes.

As I mentioned earlier, we are planning on lowering our payout time frames. However, until then, we make our payout time frames clear and there are players who accept the advantages to playing with our casino in spite of a slower payout time frame. It is true there are casinos that offer 12 hour payouts, but those ones certainly don't offer the kind of bonuses/tournaments we do; I've done my competitive research. Soon though, we hope to offer the best of both worlds :)

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager
 
Nicolas,

I know this is a transparent casino, so can you tell me if your Black-Jack and Video Poker are running off RTP software like slots, or Random Draw software?
Also what about the other games offered that are not slots? Which program are they using?

Thanks...
 
It is really sad to see what state on line casinos have reached. Most of the casinos, even accredited ones,seem to have problems, partly due to the US govt sticking it's nose in.

As a result, I believe that all casinos are having a shortage of players. Then you add in the gobs of new casinos that keep popping up and you have a further reduction of players per casino.

I believe that is why so many casinos are crying "foul", like BP with their "negative value" player routine. Shortsighted, yes, but in all honesty I would be happy to get dumped by a casino that has to resort to that BS line with an honest player that got lucky enough to win (not that common an occurrence, I grant you). To me it screams "We are going broke"!!!!

Complaining on forums is absolutely the right thing to do, that is why we frequent them. Getting reports from other players helps us to stay ahead of the problematic casinos.

I guess what I am trying to say (damn it, Jod, spit it out!) is that there are too many casinos and not enough players to support them all. And that leads to pretty much all the slow pay, no pay, bonus ban, bogus cries of cheating players, multiple accounts, etc.

Very shortsighted, but it will not stop until the USA gets regulated. It is responsible for so much of this garbage that keeps going on.
 
Nicolas,

I know this is a transparent casino, so can you tell me if your Black-Jack and Video Poker are running off RTP software like slots, or Random Draw software?
Also what about the other games offered that are not slots? Which program are they using?

Thanks...

I think I have the answer to your question:

All our games are random. They use an RNG (random number generator) to ensure they are random. RTP (return to player) is based on the game and how you play it.

Our blackjack has a standard blackjack return to player, although depending on how you play, you will get a different RTP, but again this is standard.

I guess to illustrate what I'm trying to say:
If you flip a coin that weighs evenly on both sides then:
By flipping it (assuming you do so without trying to control the velocity/number of spins/how high it goes), you are making a random result come up. This is what an RNG does, make random results come up.
If the player gets $1 paid per $1 bet, on this 50/50 chance, the Expected return for the player would be 100%. If the player gets a $0.97 cents per $1 wagered on a 50/50 chance, then the expected RTP would be 97%.
If a player is betting on heads, and heads comes up 25% (with $1 for a $1 payout), then the player will be getting an RTP of 50%, even though the expected RTP is 100%.

Sorry if I'm not the best at explaining this. Also, if you were asking something else, I apologize if I miss understood, just try and re-word it and I will do my darndest to answer.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager
 
Nicolas,

I sincerely hope that you are not trying to imply that I, at any time, threatened to post here at CM or anywhere else if I didn't get paid. Because that would be an out and out lie. As far as I know there was only one person that knew anything about my play and you know who that is. Which was the first withdrawal I made. The other 2 withdrawals, I contacted you or Dean regarding them.
 
Nicolas,

I sincerely hope that you are not trying to imply that I, at any time, threatened to post here at CM or anywhere else if I didn't get paid. Because that would be an out and out lie. As far as I know there was only one person that knew anything about my play and you know who that is. Which was the first withdrawal I made. The other 2 withdrawals, I contacted you or Dean regarding them.

I think he was addressing me because I had referenced CasinoMeister members. BTW, whether we agree with what Nicolas has to say or not, at least he's here, not dodging the questions. I'd say that's pretty transparent. I'll continue to play there because I know that I run the risk of getting bonus banned at any casino these days. As long as one realizes that, I don't think it makes this casino any worse than the others. Improve the payout time and it's good as any. :thumbsup:
 
It is really sad to see what state on line casinos have reached. Most of the casinos, even accredited ones,seem to have problems, partly due to the US govt sticking it's nose in.

As a result, I believe that all casinos are having a shortage of players. Then you add in the gobs of new casinos that keep popping up and you have a further reduction of players per casino.

I believe that is why so many casinos are crying "foul", like BP with their "negative value" player routine. Shortsighted, yes, but in all honesty I would be happy to get dumped by a casino that has to resort to that BS line with an honest player that got lucky enough to win (not that common an occurrence, I grant you). To me it screams "We are going broke"!!!!

By this same logic, every popular club in Miami and every high end restaurant in New York are also going broke.

Funny how players in general want transparency, but when they get it, they call it Bullshit. Any business management course is going to include a part of 'negative value customers'. If you don't believe me, please look it up online. I hardly made this up.

Complaining on forums is absolutely the right thing to do, that is why we frequent them. Getting reports from other players helps us to stay ahead of the problematic casinos.

Posting a reasonable complaint on a forum is more than understandable. But when the posts basically imply nasty things about an honest casino, simply for refusing to give free money to everyone every time, that undermines the real complaints out there. It makes it hard for new players to distinguish the REAL bad guys from the good guys.

I guess what I am trying to say (damn it, Jod, spit it out!) is that there are too many casinos and not enough players to support them all.

I hate to contradict you, but statistics speak otherwise. More and more people play online every day; and honest places; we have quite considerable following.

And that leads to pretty much all the slow pay, no pay, bonus ban, bogus cries of cheating players, multiple accounts, etc.

Slow pay? No pay? Bogus cries of cheating players? You make it sound like we are a scam because we bonus restricted 1 player.

There isn't one case of our casino doing what you just implied we do. If there is, I'd love to know about it. I would NOT be working here if we did that.

What

Very shortsighted, but it will not stop until the USA gets regulated. It is responsible for so much of this garbage that keeps going on.

We are not the least bit short sighted. We own our own land, our own building, our own live casino. We are in it for the long run. I don't doubt there are fly by night operations, and I agree that regulation is the best thing that can happen to this industry, but we are not one of those fly by nights operations.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager
 
I think he was addressing me because I had referenced CasinoMeister members. BTW, whether we agree with what Nicolas has to say or not, at least he's here, not dodging the questions. I'd say that's pretty transparent. I'll continue to play there because I know that I run the risk of getting bonus banned at any casino these days. As long as one realizes that, I don't think it makes this casino any worse than the others. Improve the payout time and it's good as any. :thumbsup:

Thanks, yes I was answering your post there, didn't mean to imply that anniemac did that. :)

Nicolas,

I sincerely hope that you are not trying to imply that I, at any time, threatened to post here at CM or anywhere else if I didn't get paid. Because that would be an out and out lie. As far as I know there was only one person that knew anything about my play and you know who that is. Which was the first withdrawal I made. The other 2 withdrawals, I contacted you or Dean regarding them.

I did not mean to imply that, I apologize if it came out that way, I was speaking in general and in an attempt to answer takethemoney.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager
 

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