BetAt Casino Experience! Poor!

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
Now you are just being rude. Aside from this trolling thread and calling another user an idiot, I feel this might have gone too far at this point.

Rude?

Yes I called you an idiot and for that I apologies, and have also deleted that part.

That said can you blame me? you have come on to this post and basically launched a personal attack against me!

1) You basically called me a fraud and said I had photoshopped the screen-shot

2) You posted personal information on this forum which is against the data protection act in the UK

3) You tried to discredit me by any means possible by posting chat messages and stating a host of other irrelevant facts


The list is endless- but you think think that is fine and not at all rude?

I'm sorry Igor, but after my original post your REP stated -

Hi Shane,
I apologize if you feel you have gotten the run around. To be fair, while you did PM me, I followed up asking for your casino username but haven't gotten a response back from you to follow up and to have looked into your account. I take customer grievances seriously and again, sorry if you felt you were mistreated. I'm always no further than a pm away. I do know it has been very crazy around the offices with the new launch. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me here.

and I replied with

Anyway as far as I'm concerned the issue doesn't matter to me now, I have said my bit and IMO the damage has already been done! That said I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post!

Regards
Shane

The issue was sorted, no further dealings needed to be made between us after this and I had even replied to Daniels email Message he sent just after posting -

" Hi Shane,

My name is Daniel, a member of the BETAT Customer Service team.

We spoke earlier in the week regarding your wagering issue.

As promised I have spoken to our IT team regarding the issue you experienced and they have been liaising with our back-end provider to try and establish the cause of the issue. I also involved Karl, our Casino Manager, to assist them with the investigation. After much deliberation they have come to the conclusion that it was a technical anomaly and that even though the wagering figures on the bonus bar were indicating that you had competed the wagering for the bonus, there was still a wagering requirement remaining. The IT team have assured me that the issue will not happen again and has not been reported in the past nor has it re-occurred since you first reported it.

I appreciate that you have chosen to close your account since we spoke however I just wanted to give you an update on the situation as I received a response from the relevant teams today.

Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding and have a great weekend.

Regards,

Daniel
BETAT Customer Support"

This was my polite reply back to him before you posted to me on here- does this look like I was trying to do anything but provide my experience on the casino?


Hi Daniel

Thanks for getting back to me! A little late but I appreciate it nonetheless - I'm glad it was just a technical hitch that didn't actually affect my game play! Although I was confident I would not have made play-through anyway - the issue for me was whether it had the potential to have affected it and the potential it could happen again when playing. I'm no technology geek so needed to be sure it wasn't. I still would argue it shouldn't have took this long to find out this information because it would have saved me a lot of time and in turn you guys a lot of time having to reply to me etc.

Technically I did choose to close my account, but technically I haven't because I was told I would need to do it by either sending in a email with the reason or doing it through my account using the "responsible gambling" part of the account which I would not do, as this to me would imply I have a problem with gambling and some sites add you to a list for this reason.

Thanks Daniel!

Regards
Shane


As far as I am concerned I have posted my opinion and this is an end to it. I feel that your replies have been disgraceful but that said I am now glad I posted what I had. This site is for casino geeks and people should not be afraid to post your experiences due to fearing a backlash from either other members or casino reps! That is not what this site is about! Yes people lie and con, and these people always get found out!
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
This has gotten ridiculous.

1. you cannot call me an idiot - then just apologise when i point it out, because you don't like the reply. You also called another user an idiot.

2. You have gone out of your way to post a poor review of MY business on the basis of, i quote, "piss poor customer service" which was riddled with misleading and outright incorrect information. You CANNOT LIE about a complaint about customer service and then misquote time it took to reply or the replies themselves and pretend it doesn't matter. IT DOES. That is also not allowed by the rules of this forum and it's flaming/trolling - call you as you will. Bottom line, it isn't truthful! My post merely pointed out the inconsistencies and misinformation in your complaint.

3. What is the issue about? Potential mistake with out wagering system and a warning to other customers? Let's say that is so - your wagering was 614.24 while you claim the system showed 814.24. Your gameplay shows that the wagering calculation (of 614.24 aka 77%) was perfectly correct, every bet is allocated, every spin accounted for. Frankly, that would be enough for anyone, but here i am trying to go the extra mile and double check MG systems, NetEnt systems, decrypt raw data files, in the last 4 days no less, hardly the 2 weeks you claimed, just in case of a long shot that we actually missed something.

In fact, the ONLY piece of information showing other wagering than the one visible internally and through your game trail, is the screenshot you posted of our wagering panel. Screenshot which is fuzzy at best.

You said the deposit amount yourself, if anything the sheer amount of effort that went into making sure we look at all angles over the amount of your deposit and sheer amount of compensation in return should show that we truly care about each and every customer. Instead, i'm forced to sit here and read some persons absolutely dishonest account about the business i invest every waking moment in ensuring it's a beacon of excellence whenever possible. Ridiculous.

Frankly, im going to let mods deal with this case. It's gone far enough.

As for the case itself, supplier data will be provided and once it is, we'll confirm if our internal database is correct. If not, we'll fix the issue, if it is however - then i think your screenshot will be best explained by you.

As said initially, twice your deposit amount was credited to your account and account was closed, at your request.

Enjoy it.

igor
 
Last edited:

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
This has gotten ridiculous.

1. you cannot call me an idiot - then just apologise when i point it out, because you don't like the reply. You also called another user an idiot.

Igor you made it ridiculous, read the whole thread from start to finish! You have taken my personal opinion about having a poor service to heart and launched a full blown attack against me when in fact the situation had been sorted out. I updated the post with the email from CS that shows that the problem was an anomaly. I replied to your REP who replied to my post in a polite manor! Would it be so hard for you to actually accept that I had received poor customer service in that I had been told several times that I would have be contacted etc and then not hear anything? Your a smart guy, you have a way with words but I'm sorry I am not in the wrong here! If I had left out anything in that OP it would have been pointless putting my experience at all! I called you an idiot because you basically accused me of photo-shopping the screen shot which is ridiculous and you know I can prove otherwise.

2. You have gone out of your way to post a poor review of MY business on the basis of, i quote, "piss poor customer service" which was riddled with misleading and outright incorrect information. You CANNOT LIE about a complaint about customer service and then misquote time it took to reply or the replies themselves and pretend it doesn't matter. IT DOES. That is also not allowed by the rules of this forum and it's flaming/trolling - call you as you will. Bottom line, it isn't truthful! My post merely pointed out the inconsistencies and misinformation in your complaint.

Exactly! Piss poor customer service in that the situation had not been resolved! How was I to know if the wagering was correct or not if it is telling the wrong information? I said time and time again to your support I wanted it sorted so I could play at YOUR casino- nothing more, nothing less! The only information that was incorrect was the time I had waited and the times I contacted support- according to you anyway! Which is irrelevant to the post IMO. This has no bearing on others making a judgement on YOUR casino. You are the one that has lied, said wrongful information- such as for example- that this was an isolated incidence when in fact I have been told by your support that it had happened to a few people! I have also pointed out your incontinences Igor- for example:

Now, although I'm almost definitively sure the data is correct - to guarantee it's an isolated case I need to be 100% definitively sure and only then can I offer such guarantee.

3. Once data comes back confirmed, options are that the player mistook 6 for an 8 due to such similarity of the number and matching remaining figures. It also could be that the frontend somehow covered cent values (backoffice feeds cents) wrongly although I can't even imagine how that is possible and finally the screenshot could be photoshopped. By that last statement, I don't mean to accuse anyone of anything but if we are listing possibilities, it's one of them.

Now your making out that foul play on my behalf is to blame for this in the above quote now this email - received moments after the post went live stated...



" Hi Shane,

My name is Daniel, a member of the BETAT Customer Service team.

We spoke earlier in the week regarding your wagering issue.

As promised I have spoken to our IT team regarding the issue you experienced and they have been liaising with our back-end provider to try and establish the cause of the issue. I also involved Karl, our Casino Manager, to assist them with the investigation. After much deliberation they have come to the conclusion that it was a technical anomaly and that even though the wagering figures on the bonus bar were indicating that you had competed the wagering for the bonus, there was still a wagering requirement remaining. The IT team have assured me that the issue will not happen again and has not been reported in the past nor has it re-occurred since you first reported it.

I appreciate that you have chosen to close your account since we spoke however I just wanted to give you an update on the situation as I received a response from the relevant teams today.

Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding and have a great weekend.

Regards,

Daniel
BETAT Customer Support"

Now in my view your comments are contradictory and you are plucking at straws because I have offended you by my post! Which it was not intended to do! you took it personally and have tried everything possible to make out I am a lier when that is not true at all! You can take the post how ever you want to Igor, you blew this out of proportion!

3. What is the issue about? Potential mistake with out wagering system and a warning to other customers? Let's say that is so - your wagering was 617.24 while you claim the system showed 817.24. Your gameplay shows that the system was perfectly correct, every bet is allocated, every spin accounted for. Frankly, that would be enough for anyone, but here i am trying to go the extra mile and double check MG systems, NetEnt systems, decrypt raw data files, in the last 4 days no less, hardly the 2 weeks you claimed, just in case of a long shot that we actually missed something.

Let us just leave the two week thing you keep trying plug as a major incident Igor! Your telling me that my screenshot shot shows the correct amount as 617.24 and not 817.24! If this was the case why not just tell me that? I would bet my life on it that it was an 8 not a 6 and just to reiterate this, if that was the case why does the "quoted" email off Daniel above claim it to be a glitch? why did CS tell me that it had happened to a few people? was we all on the same numbers/amounts?

In fact, the ONLY piece of information showing other wagering than the one you claim, is the screenshot you posted of our wagering panel. Screenshot which is fuzzy at best.

But not that fuzzy to already have the proof that I was correct?? You are seriously going to try and say anything you can! Your taking the post personally because it is your casino, and I get that! But it was not intended to be personal Igor! It was intended to provide my experience of the casino and I have done it for a few other casinos too! I waited and waited for this to be resolved- all I needed was the okay that it had been looked into, sorted and wouldn't happen again! Which funnily came after this post! I personally don't think the post is one sided either, I think there are positives as well as negatives! If you feel that my intention was to warn off players then I am sorry for that, but that was not the case at all! You could have just accepted that CS communication between us had been shaky and said that the situation was isolated and has not happened since for other players - but you did not! you handled this in the most ridiculous way accusing me of all sorts and selecting parts of my post and my chat communications to fit your argument! When there was no need to.

My reply to your REP when he replied to the post was nothing but polite and people would have seen his post and made there own judgement on what he had said! I even updated my OP to include the email from CS which accepted there had been an issue and this issue had now been resolved! this would have gone in your favour! You cannot just take to attacking people and manipulating posts to sway the argument your way! I'm always up for a debate, and a fair one at that, but you came on here all guns blazing- again! it is not the first time I have seen you do this either!

You said the deposit amount yourself, if anything the sheer amount of effort that went into making sure we look at all angles over the amount of your deposit and sheer amount of compensation in return should show that we truly care about each and every customer. Instead, i'm forced to sit here and read some persons absolutely dishonest account about the business i invest every waking moment in ensuring it's a beacon of excellence whenever possible. Ridiculous.

Where this compensation comes from I have no idea!? I have had no compensation, nor have a requested or insinuated I wanted any! This is perfectly clear from communications between me and CS, my attempt to close my account which would have been the end of our dealings, the way i replied to REPS on this post, the way I updated the post to include updates.

Frankly, im going to let mods deal with this case. It's gone far enough.

Maybe you should have thought about that before going off on one Igor- maybe you should have thought about that before accusing me of all sorts in this forum and you should have thought about that Igor before placing my data and personal information in this forum!

As for the case itself, supplier data will be provided and once it is, we'll confirm if our internal database is correct. If not, we'll fix the issue, if it is however - then i think your screenshot will be best explained by you.

Igor you are doing it again, insinuating that my screenshot is a fraud! When if you check the time of the screen shot when it was saved or taken, against the time I was on chat at the same time as emailing it in, you frankly know fine well it was not screen shotted! As for the data it means nothing, my main point in the post was the lack of communication about the issue, if you would have actually kept me in the loop I wouldn't have felt as though I was getting the run around! Also again, yourr casino has already accepted that their was a technical anomaly proving I had nothing to do with it from my end! that is just ridiculous and clutching at anything!

As said initially, twice your deposit amount was credited to your account and account was closed, at your request.

Enjoy it.

igor

Also I did not ask for my deposit back, nor did I want it back! yet again this would have been sorted if you would have not said the things you had to try and discredit me and my experience let alone my opinion!

Igor, this did get a little out of hand but no person in the world will take the personal attack you did on here to me lying down! Especially when I have done nothing but be honest- well bar from being a few days off on my guestimate of when I deposited or on the amount of times I contacted support- which is still arguable but as I have said it is easy to argue when you have the information and I don't!

For the record - my honesty is that much it was only a few years ago 32Red accidental credited my account with £500 instead of £50- what did I do????? Returned it! I am honest!
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
There is no point in arguing. CS never told you it was multiple users so i don't understand why you would claim that - I did tell you that however, in a PM here and it was because two wagering cases were briefed to me that morning. one was a misunderstanding and the other one you. I thought they were connected before i got my facts right.

Either way, case closed. You will receive one more email however, once the suppliers return their bet data and its consolidated with ours. Once i have 3 systems matching, there will be no doubt. At that point you will receive the guarantee you seek, although now that the account is closed it doesn't quite matter.

best of luck.
 

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
There is no point in arguing. CS never told you it was multiple users so i don't understand why you would claim that - I did tell you that however, in a PM here and it was because two wagering cases were briefed to me that morning. one was a misunderstanding and the other one you. I thought they were connected before i got my facts right.

Either way, case closed. You will receive one more email however, once the suppliers return their bet data and its consolidated with ours. Once i have 3 systems matching, there will be no doubt. At that point you will receive the guarantee you seek, although now that the account is closed it doesn't quite matter.

best of luck.

Nope, no point at all because we won't get anywhere! As far as I am concerned the matter of the problem was solved anyway, as stated in the email by CS Daniel! But as you say it makes no difference now as my account is closed!


Best of luck to you too Igor!

Shane
 

Azzurri

Banned User
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
From Foil Land
I think Shane makes some valid points, and I can understand him being emotional and upset at being wrongly accused of fraudulence, especially after it was confirmed as being a technical glitch by cs and the tech department.

In saying that, from personal experience Shane, let me tell you that verbal abuse gets you nowhere, and I think you were eloquently making your case without going there, so just something to keep in mind.

Igor, I must say, I have never had any issues with betat, and often praise them, however I'm not overly impressed by your handling of the situation here. From what I've read, the evidence indicates that Shane was polite in his communications until wrongfully being alluded to as a fraudulent photoshopper. I understand you want to defend betat at all costs, and Shane's evaluation of the service he received my have not been to your liking, however given he was advised the error was on your end, sometimes it can be more flattering for you to simply say sorry, our mistake, rather than trying to discredit Shane with random assumptions. I do however agree that you have a right to clarify the timeline, as Shane, you must understand that this isn't an irrelevant fact for readers, or an organization that have a strong rep for timely service.

Some unnecessary comments and behaviour from both ends, but sorry Igor, I have to say you may have escalated the matter by making the issue personal when you could have stated your case purely based on the factual information you had. I think betat have that strong a reputation, that you really shouldn't take the very rare odd complaint so personally, especially when other colleagues are admitting the error was from your end. Sometimes it's easier just to say sorry, it won't happen again.

Shane, sorry you had this experience and didn't get to enjoy betat for the class outfit it usually is, as most of us can confirm. A sad end.
 

spintee

Ueber Meister
webby
mm2
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Location
Northants
My game play did not add up up either, I no this as I had that wager 5000 and get a bonus, as fair as I no I only played 100% weighted games and the calculations did not add up, They should of been exact the same, If I had wagered 200 towards the 5 grand than surely my wager should have been 200?

Well it might of been just a time issue? I didn't take much notice as my rtp was terrible anyway and didnt really matter, as no way I would of made wager req :)
I bring this up as I sure I read that it was a 1 off? Again it might of been a timing issue, I can see there at least trying to sort issues, & like others mention some sites which not even got bars and so annoying having to check threw cs
 

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
In saying that, from personal experience Shane, let me tell you that verbal abuse gets you nowhere, and I think you were eloquently making your case without going there, so just something to keep in mind.

Hi Azzurri

I couldn't agree more, although I feel verbal abuse is a bit strong of a term, me calling him an idiot was unprofessional of me, and somewhat unacceptable to a certain point and was said in the heat of the moment. Which is why I deleted it and apologised to him for it- even despite the situation! That said, when a business is insinuating such accusations and trying everything possible to discredit me and make me look fraudulent based on "my personal experience and opinion" I have a right to defend myself as much as his does. However as you point out without being insulting would have been more appropriate and that is a lesson learnt on my part.

as Shane, you must understand that this isn't an irrelevant fact for readers, or an organization that have a strong rep for timely service.

Again this was a mistake on my part, and I clearly underestimated the importance of the accuracy of factual information - that said I stand by the information I have stated- bar the part were I stated the length of time I had been waiting of two weeks, Igor was correct it was less than two weeks! That said I still would argue this was irrelevant to the actual point, even less so after being accused of all sorts of things!

I can see why Igor would take such a post to heart, especially when the casino is his, I would probably feel the same way in the same circumstances. We all know that there are people out there that try to discredit casinos and are fraudulent we see them on here from time to time and they always get found out eventually, that said I am none of these.

I have no animosity towards Igor even after this thread and hope somewhere down the line we can both put this down to a bad experience and learn from it.

Thank-you for taking the time to post Azzurri, and pointing out the shortcomings of both of us on this thread and hopefully the matter will be laid to rest now going forward.

Hope yall have a great Sunday! Including you Igor :thumbsup:
 

Janek12

Dormant Account
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Location
Europe
I played at Bet-at several days ago and I also noticed that the progress bar was "acting up" - but not during my play with the welcome bonus (I was watching the progress bar closely and it was wonderful to see the small increments - I am a numbers guy :)); the glitch happened during my playthrough of an additional promotional bonus (Walk This Way IIRC) - but I was playing roulette and with high bets so I chalked it up to the fact that perhaps some additional wagering requirements were imposed as a result of the high bets.
But technically, it seemed strange - IIRC the progress bar showed something like 1680/1600 (i.e. 1680 wagered out of 1600, which seemed to be nonsensical mathematically) and the percentage was something like perhaps 98 % at one point and then 70 % later on, so it was all a bit strange; but I played on and made the playthrough and the progress bar disappeared after that so I was not bothered by it.

I am still very enthusiastic about Bet-at despite this technical glitch - because of their openness and willingness to admit and correct mistakes on their part.

It is also interesting to see how everything is subject to interpretation - I am not sure if Igor meant it was a one-off thing for the OP; it obviously had to be a systemic error so it had to affect all players who found themselves in the same configuration of circumstances (types of weighted games, etc.); I understood that Igor meant it was related to the launch of NetEnt and that was why he called it a one-off thing - it occurred after the launch, now it will be sorted out and never happening again.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
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the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
If this has occurred in multiple cases, it's probably a simple error. Obviously a live bonus-bar is great to have on the site, and like any framework it's GIGO - if maybe one game has not been entered into the system at the correct percentage WR contribution, missed altogether or there is a disconnect in the totting up at certain events, i.e. logging off or changing game.
Hopefully it IS a technical glitch which will stop the antagonism here.
 

gambler777

Full Member
PABaccred
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Location
USA
There is no point in arguing. CS never told you it was multiple users so i don't understand why you would claim that - I did tell you that however, in a PM here and it was because two wagering cases were briefed to me that morning. one was a misunderstanding and the other one you. I thought they were connected before i got my facts right.

Either way, case closed. You will receive one more email however, once the suppliers return their bet data and its consolidated with ours. Once i have 3 systems matching, there will be no doubt. At that point you will receive the guarantee you seek, although now that the account is closed it doesn't quite matter.

best of luck.

I think you are missing the point of it being about customer service. To many of us, customer service is very important. With the time change I experience, waiting 48 hours for an answer every time is very frustrating. And this is the first time I myself, have seen cs go after a member. Though all you say may be true, calling out his screenshot seems over the top. There was no advantage to him photo shopping the screenshot. I understand his reasoning of being sure this wouldn't happen again. Whether just an anomaly with his account or if it affected others, there was no reassurance it wouldn't happen again, or that it wouldn't happen to another of us. I think this has become very heated over something that did not need to be. He stated the facts as he understood them, disregarding the time frame. What we need from you is that it was investigated and that it cannot or will not occur again. JMHO
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
I think you are missing the point of it being about customer service. To many of us, customer service is very important. With the time change I experience, waiting 48 hours for an answer every time is very frustrating. And this is the first time I myself, have seen cs go after a member. Though all you say may be true, calling out his screenshot seems over the top. There was no advantage to him photo shopping the screenshot. I understand his reasoning of being sure this wouldn't happen again. Whether just an anomaly with his account or if it affected others, there was no reassurance it wouldn't happen again, or that it wouldn't happen to another of us. I think this has become very heated over something that did not need to be. He stated the facts as he understood them, disregarding the time frame. What we need from you is that it was investigated and that it cannot or will not occur again. JMHO

That, is a very fair point. And as such as I said in my original post - we DID investigate internally. The result does not match what is depicted on the screen. Instead of taking it at face value of our internal systems, i asked for the game trail to be confirmed by NetEnt, for relevant games, and MG, again for relevant games. Such confirmation will validate our internal calculations which show that the system worked without a flaw, that the wagering was in fact 614.24 and not 814.24 as the OP claims and that the only problem here may be the graphic representation itself (6 appearing as an 8).

Until I receive supplier confirmation of every spin it is my duty to not take my team at their word and not take our own data as gospel. Since I don't have such confirmation yet, data is still a variable; and to offer a guarantee that is being requested - I cannot have the data being a variable - it has to be a definitive result.

Now, the post isn't actually about wagering. It's about trusting your gut and going for the casinos you know because my establishment offered "piss poor customer service". It also finished by stating that while my establishment may have had praise in the past, also Rogue operations will find "a customer" that will like and/or praise them - effectively putting my business in the same pot with Rogue operations.

The OP stated that on a premise that he has been battling the issue and approached our establishment for a resolution for two weeks. Considering the post is talking about non responsive CS and is offering their view on the situation for the public at large to take at face value, then in the same breath if such post was about a case that is less than 7 days old, and that it's been 2 days since the last interaction, it sheds a completely different light on the "piss poor customer" service than the original post, would you not agree?

When taking about an establishment, the least a user can do is make sure they have the facts in place. The same post, word for word, written with the correct timeline and correct response times would carry a far different weight on the scenario than what OP posted. I'm quite sure the "mistake" wasn't done in good faith. I cannot imagine how someone that has been in last contact with Daniel (CS) that Wednesday, in touch with me (CEO) since Monday, in touch with Casino Manager since Tuesday, for a case that started on Sunday, can mistakenly write about a 2-week struggle and "piss poor customer service" that same Friday and do it "unintentionally".

To me, that reasons my "heated" initial response, which upon re-read i saw as factual rather than heated, and I do and will stand by it. We put a lot of effort in ensuring a fair and rewarding experience and I openly take honest criticism and suggestion and have done so numerous times in the past, but it has to be genuine. Facts must be right, especially when a complaint is public and it carries a wide spread effect.

Now, as for the guarantee - since customers of our business have a right to know whether the wagering panel that shows the wagering in-game works or not - I can offer the analysis done to date, based on internal systems, full breakdown of which is yet to be sent to the OP (NetEnt replied confirming the bets, waiting for MG).

Shane's Wagering Case:

(not to disclose game-play information publicly - i'll use provider and not game-name)

Part 1 - back-end system and data calculation: Testing Calculations & game result.

Customer received a £20 deposit bonus that carried a £800 total wagering requirement.

Customer started by playing on a NetEnt game at 100% gameweight, wagering :£29.5, contributed: £29.5 (confirmed by supplier)
Customer moved to different NetEnt game at 50% game weight, wagering: £98.28, contributed at 50%: £49.14 (confirmed)
Customer moved to a MG game at 100% gameweight, wagering: wagering £41.4, contributed £41.4 (as of right now, unconfirmed by MG but we expect confirmation today)
Customer changed to different MG game at 100% gameweight, wagering: £450.9, contributed: £450.9 (unconfirmed by supplier at this time, expected today)
Customer moved to final 2 NetEnt games at 100% gameweight, wagering a total of £43.3, contributed: £43.3 (confirmed)

At this point, the balance was depleted to a few cents (not sure if the balnce was said in the thread previously so i wont quote the amount). Date is 8 past midnight on the 13th. Customer approached CS regarding the issue. Bonus balance was forfeited and CS stated investigation will be made. Day is Sunday.

Over the next 2 days checks were made and above information was extracted and calculated manually. Findings did not match OP's statement and screenshot for several reasons:

Total amount wagered without applying game weights was: £ 663.38
Total amount contributed to bonus wagering, after application of game weights: £614.24

Note: Customer also stated that wagering panel showed 77% wagered, but also showed £814.24 wagered out of £800 necessary to wager, which would imply that 101.75% were wagered @ (panel would show 102% due to rounding).

*This would imply that either Wagered amount was depicted erroneously or wagering % contribution was depicted erroneously.* This part is why we asked for additional confirmation by our suppliers as secondary backup, as the statement made by the OP is functionally impossible to achieve and I will explain why.

Part 2 - Graphic Representation: Checking Wagering Calculations and Website Interface

Based on data analysis only £614.24, out of required £800, was wagered toward this bonus. The wagering % achieved is calculated by the system by: Total Wagered / Required = %

In this case that would be £614.24 / £800 = 76.78%, rounded to 77% by the Website as % depiction on the site does not use decimals.

The website itself doesn't calculate anything, it receives information every few seconds from the system and shows it on screen. Information it receives is:

Total Wagered: received in cents as a value of 61424 cents.
Required to Wager: received in cents as value of 80000 cents
% Achieved: received as a value of 0.7678, converted to 76.78%, rounded to 77%


This is what boggled our mind: The OP's statement says that % showed 77% but that wagering showed £814.24 is physically impossible. The reason why that is so is best described by quoting David, our system guru:

"From our side there is nothing further to add unfortunately. I checked the screenshot - the percentage is shown correctly, the BonusWagerRequirement (Igor: Required to wager) is shown correctly, but the BonusWagerRequirementAchieved is shown incorrectly.

It is not possible for our system in any single call to GameGetSessionStatistics (Igor: this is how system sends data to the website for players to see) to return inconsistent values for those fields. Either all would correct or all would be incorrect . The percentage on our system is a calculated field which is automatically calculated by dividing BonusWageringRequirementAchieved field with BonusWAgeringRequirement field.

There is no scenario possible that would should any of the values incorrect, but execute the formula correctly. It just isn't possible. I don't know what else to tell you. Are you sure the player didn't mix the figures? The image isn't very clear.
"

At this point it became clear that the screenshot needs to be investigated thoroughly. Could the player have made the mistake? Could the player have photos-hoped the screenshot? Now I understand that the community may be sensitive to this statement, but it wouldn't be the first or last time and factually "it is a valid possibility" as much as it it is a valid possibility that our system was flawed. Nowhere in my thread had i insinuated that this is definitive act by the OP, I stated its possible - which it is.

It's also possible he mixed up a 6 and an 8. As for the image, sent to us as proof, here it is in its original format:

Old / Expired Link

I loaded it on-line to ensure no re-formatting is done by the forum upload process. To me and anyone that saw it so far, it could be 6 or an 8 either way. The screenshot simply isn't legible (IMHO). Data is however, showing that this seems to be end-user mistake.

... At this point in time, to AVOID accusing a player of making a mistake I asked for each bet to be confirmed by our suppliers, exactly because the answer the OP was about to receive isn't what he would have liked to hear. I suspected that such a reply may be taken personally, as it did in this thread and i would have preferred to be backed up by game supplier data also before I reply with "There was no flaw."

While I awaited such confirmations, Daniel was in touch with the OP who simply asked for a guarantee it wont happen again. Daniel did not have information or was allowed to offer information about the case to date until I validated the game-play with my suppliers. As of yesterday, this thread was a result. Which way it should have gone, or how it should be dealt with is arguable, but fact remains that when OP posts a thread which closes with comparing my establishment and ongoing efforts of my team with a Rogue operation, any good-faith toward resolution is going to be rapidly depleted. More-so when that same post isn't factually correct.

As for the guarantee that the system works to perfection - So far all evidence would point there. Following MG confirmation, the evidence will be irrefutable and then, i'll offer my absolute guarantee.

Kind regards

Igor
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
It's also possible he mixed up a 6 and an 8. As for the image, sent to us as proof, here it is in its original format:

Old / Expired Link

Zooming in to that image, it does actually look more like an 8 than a 6.

Could you maybe change the font colour and/or increase the size of the figures? red on black at such a small font size isn't very easy to read

I personally find the figures difficult to read when playing a bonus. I often have to go to the 'my active bonuses' page, where the bonus bar graphic is larger and easier to read, to get an accurate figure.
 

spintee

Ueber Meister
webby
mm2
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Location
Northants
Is it posible the player could of went down to 0p? Than the bonus bar auto went to 800? than won of last spin and gabled another £14 odd? but does seem how its the exact amount exept the 6 is changed to 8 (total bet by betat £614.24 screen shot £814.24)


bonussssss.JPG

bonuss333.JPG
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
Zooming in to that image, it does actually look more like an 8 than a 6.

Could you maybe change the font colour and/or increase the size of the figures? red on black at such a small font size isn't very easy to read

I personally find the figures difficult to read when playing a bonus. I often have to go to the 'my active bonuses' page, where the bonus bar graphic is larger and easier to read, to get an accurate figure.

You're right.

I already spoke to the team about this.

We will increase the wagering panel font size but space is limited. Additionally, we're including even larger review in the my bonuses and promotions screen than the existing one which can be found by going to "my bonuses and promotions" main menu item.

It will list all active bonuses currently applicable, as so:

Old / Expired Link

Athough this exists already - we're making it bigger and even more eligible.

Also CS has a new process by which if there ever is a wagering case issue, a screenshot from this page will be required due to more eligible depiction of data.

Igor
 

shanetospin

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
England
Here we go again....

Now, the post isn't actually about wagering. It's about trusting your gut and going for the casinos you know because my establishment offered "piss poor customer service". It also finished by stating that while my establishment may have had praise in the past, also Rogue operations will find "a customer" that will like and/or praise them - effectively putting my business in the same pot with Rogue operations.


The OP post was never to do with whether the information was correct or not it was to do with the contradictory information, and promise of contact, that never happened! That is why I termed it piss poor customer service!

When I am being told that

1) "this has happened to a few people and it had been something that had slipped past Betat during testing of the new software"- I will take that information at face value.

2) when CS says they will contact me the next day, I expect them to contact me the next day! When CS says they will investigate and nobody from CS contacts me, it is left to me to contact you, then yes I call this piss poor customer service IMO! A simple update would have sufficed!

3) When customer support get back to me with the following information basically confirming it was a glitch then I clearly how did I mistaken a 6 for an 8?

"Hi Shane,


My name is Daniel, a member of the BETAT Customer Service team.

We spoke earlier in the week regarding your wagering issue.

As promised I have spoken to our IT team regarding the issue you experienced and they have been liaising with our back-end provider to try and establish the cause of the issue. I also involved Karl, our Casino Manager, to assist them with the investigation. After much deliberation they have come to the conclusion that it was a technical anomaly and that even though the wagering figures on the bonus bar were indicating that you had competed the wagering for the bonus, there was still a wagering requirement remaining. The IT team have assured me that the issue will not happen again and has not been reported in the past nor has it re-occurred since you first reported it.

I appreciate that you have chosen to close your account since we spoke however I just wanted to give you an update on the situation as I received a response from the relevant teams today.

Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding and have a great weekend."..............



The OP stated that on a premise that he has been battling the issue and approached our establishment for a resolution for two weeks. Considering the post is talking about non responsive CS and is offering their view on the situation for the public at large to take at face value, then in the same breath if such post was about a case that is less than 7 days old, and that it's been 2 days since the last interaction, it sheds a completely different light on the "piss poor customer" service than the original post, would you not agree?

Your argument is being rested on the fact I said two weeks instead of 7 days, but this is irrelevant to the argument and tbh I doubt anyone is concerned with this part, but mainly concerned with the way you have been on this thread! The main issue people will be concerned with after reading my post is whether the ERROR was real, whether it had been fixed and to know it wouldn't have happened again- which has been confirmed by YOUR casino and has been shown here! You made YOUR casino look worse by personally attacking me in the way that you have and continue to do!


My main point, and this is the last time I will go over this! IS that if I had been kept in the loop, contacted when stated, then I would not have had a poor experience! If someone would have explained to me that software providers did not work weekends, that there is a possibility......that I had mistaken the 8 for a 6, which by the way I zoomed in on when I was on the browser upon noticing it and it was an 8! The only thing I did wrong was not take that as a screen shot instead!

You keep going on in this post like I have stated the wagering was wrong, it is you that is trying so hard to prove it was correct? which proves nothing and adds nothing to my OP because it was not to do with whether the Wagering was correct in the end and you know it wasn't! You have been selective in showing chat messages, not showing the one that included support stating that it had happened to a few people.

Obviously with the lack of communication when your casino said it would contact me I felt I had been given the run around, therefore I am left to have assumed that it was a flaw, regardless of whether it was or not, whether I had made a mistake or not!

Nobody carers about it being right or wrong, it ha already been stated by your other rep on here and in the email off Daniel that the issue had been resolved!

With regards to the rogue part of my OP it had nothing to do with comparing your casino to a rouge outfit! I stated that because I know what people on this site can sometimes be like! If they play at your casino then they will jump on the wagon and take your side! My point in saying what I did was solely to point out that not everyone has a good experience with a good casino, and as this is a fact, I am entitled to state my opinion!

You have gone from plastering my personal contact and information on this post to personally attacking me and called me a fraud, accused me of photo shopping that screen shot and then in addition when this did not work you proceeded to make out that I been attempting to get compensation - which I will add is ridiculous, unfounded, and untrue!

While we are going into it further, do you think it is appropriate to message my family members asking if we live at the same address? I can only imagine Igor that you was trying to find anything untoward to TRY and discredit me further on here!

The bottom line for me anyway, is it does not matter whether the software providers provide you with information that the wagering was in fact correct, I have never disputed that at all! What I did say was that for all I know as a player is it had 1) the potential for it to have been wrong- 2) the potential for it to be wrong again and 3) assurances that it had been checked and it was fine to play! Which is why I reported it to be checked! Say for instance, the 8 was in fact a 6 as you say - so did your support staff, your making it out that I am some sort of criminal on the basis of information I am told!

Your post has two points - 1) that I said it had taken two weeks- yes you was correct it was 7 days! I accept that! 2) your making out that any of this "proving" the wagering was actually correct matters? it doesn't!! Not only has it been confirmed the amount was correct and the issue has been sorted but if I had been told that anyway I would have accepted it. My OP was painted how I seen it and how it looked! We can argue this all week and I'm sure you will Igor! The bottom line even if I had mistaken that 6 for an 8 what does it matter? if anything it looks worse on you because CS have already accepted it was a anomaly!

Stop trying to make out my post was anything but my own experience Igor! I get why your so mad about it, I get that it is your casino and you feel offended! I'm not even posting again after this because the things you have said and done on this thread in my eyes has painted you in a worse picture than my OP could have even done!

Say what you want now Igor I'm done going over and over this! Your support fell short, you handled this situation ridiculously! End of!
 

Azzurri

Banned User
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
From Foil Land
Igor, in your last explanation you made no mention of why your cs rep admitted it was a system error on your end. Can you explain why your information is contradictory to that of your cs rep Daniel?

I honestly don't know what to believe anymore, however, based on the information here, Shane's story hasn't changed since the op, yet there seems to be some conflicting information coming from the betat camp. I can understand Shane's frustration in that regard.

I have to say Igor, I still don't agree with your approach but am trying to stay neutral for the time being, however, as a customer of betat, I would appreciate further explanation regarding the conflicting information?

Thanks
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
You didn't only want to be kept in the loop Shane, you wanted a guarantee that it will never happen again as you voiced on numerous occasions to both me and my staff. In the loop - you were kept, on almost daily basis, up until Wednesday. A guarantee on the other hand, isn't something I'll issue lightly until I know everything there is to know about the case. Finally, you didn't want to wait a week for us to do our job so you blasted us on the forums.

Fine, it's your prerogative to do so, it mine to defend it and voice what I felt was factually misrepresented.

We on one hand learned how to improve the validation process and fixed the UI, you on the other hand had a "piss poor customer experience" which once happened, we could do nothing but reward you for, which was done.

In the meantime, while writing above MG confirmed the spins - and i can say irrefutably that our data is 100% correct - so my guarantee is this:

1. Your wagering was 614.24 with 100% accuracy. Not 814 as your screenshot claims.
2. You only arrived at 77% of your bonus wagering. That is correct in your screenshot.
3. There is no scenario that exists in this reality where a system would show you 814.24 wagered but also calculate 77% correctly, as it uses the wagered figure to calculate the percentage. Percentage depends on it.
4. Mathematically, what you claim is impossible to have occurred, which leaves the option of you mistaking the font perhaps.

I can 100% guarantee that this (mistaking the font) will never occur again, now that we fixed the font size and I can also 100% guarantee that system flaw didn't happen to begin with.

Daniels email quoting technical glitch is vague enough to leave room for investigation and also allow him not to call your impressions wrong. It's polite customer service which is being used against CS. Now that the investigation is done, there is no doubt in my mind that the system never showed 814.24 while at the same time showing 77% wagered.

I do apologise that we took a week to get all of our data in line, unfortunately that is the time this case has taken to facilitate, and i wish i could explain this to you in a more amicable environment and offer compensation and invitation to try again. But alas.

You will be emailed with your full game trail breakdown and wagering contribution for each of your spins for your future reference.

Kind regards,

Igor
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
Igor, in your last explanation you made no mention of why your cs rep admitted it was a system error on your end. Can you explain why your information is contradictory to that of your cs rep Daniel?

Azzuri, I fully appreciate the statement and it's wholly valid. For this we must take Customer Service and the work to understand the wording and also the time this happened.

1. This happened in the first week since launching NetEnt games. Stability of the system is always iffy in the first few days and there were cases with games dropping and there wwas few cases with free-spins not being automatically awarded. Daniels initial statement piled this issue with NetEnt glitches as a whole, as so:

just a few minutes shane having a look with the IT team. The bar is definitely incorrect as your bonus has not been fully wagered but they are checking as to why its showing an incorrect amount wagered
Shane: Okay Dan cheers mate! I thought it was strange myself but thanks for looking at it further! :)
Daniel: no worries, really sorry for the inconvenience. We just launched NetEnt and these are issues that have slipped by us during testing

This was the very first insight into the issue by a CS member who truly does not have all data at hand. His job is to keep peace, calm and reassure and also to ensure the right people look into the matters that don't seem correct at first. The very next chat was regarding the closure of account because of non-response 3 days later (Wednesday). In the meantime data teams were investigating thoroughly. They also received Shane's screenshot to work from.

Daniel initially lumped the instability of the system and said, we may have missed it in testing - this was done because there were in fact glitches relating to a new integration. He did not however, have theright tools at his disposal to make a definitive conclusion but as stated, forwarded it to the senior management.

2. The Email arriving from Daniel on the day of the post. Internally, what I wrote above was communicated. Internal conclusion was that it couldn't have happened to begin with. I wanted to reply to Shane myself, or Karl would have done it from a more senior level and explain that it would appear that he saw wrong. This is not a nice response for a customer and needed to be tacked carefully. In order to tackle it carefully, we would show WHY we think that by showing both our and supplier data and carefully explaining the process we undertook with his case of the last week.

Unfortunately, everything that would have been put in an email, became a part of this thread. In the interim, Daniel had his answer: it cant happen again, as it couldn't have happened in the first place due to the formula calculating the 77% being dependant on the figure that is claimed to be wrong.

As such from the CS perspective you are faced with two options, state the one-off anomaly in the system (technically it doesn't cost any thing and it avoids making the user feel stupid or attacked) and reassure the user to carefully monitor in future and explain that we are here to check and recheck any claim; or - state to the user that screenshot is invalid or that figures may be illegible for him, or whichever of the many options that point the finger to the end user. Daniel is "Customer Service" - he is not and will never be allowed to point a finger at a customer.

What Daniel specifically wrote and as quoted above this Saturday was:

After much deliberation they have come to the conclusion that it was a technical anomaly and that even though the wagering figures on the bonus bar were indicating that you had competed the wagering for the bonus, there was still a wagering requirement remaining. The IT team have assured me that the issue will not happen again and has not been reported in the past nor has it re-occurred since you first reported it.

From Daniel perspective, and from Shane's for that matter, its a polite re-assuring reply to a query he had some days ago and from our perspective, if it ever escalated we know we had a plethora of data and effort to prove our claim that truly something like this cannot happen.

In the interim, my rep pointed me to a thread where this same user plopped us in with Rogue operation. Here we are today.

As a customer of BETAT I hope above facilitates your questions and doubts. If not, as always, me, Casino Manger or James (BETAT) are a PM or e-mail away.

Igor
 

Azzurri

Banned User
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
From Foil Land
Igor,

As a customer, I'm not totally happy with your explanation regarding Daniel's admission, but I guess it's an explanation.

Obviously this created a bigger issue in the end, so can I suggest that in the future, for your own sake, and that of the customer, you don't admit to anything you are yet to investigate thoroughly. Just a suggestion, but there's other things that could have been said to be polite and buy time rather than admitting guilt.

Had Daniel said, I'm very sorry sir, but your request has been taken very seriously, and as the investigation is a complex and timely one, in order to give you the correct answers and data, we must ask for your patience. Unfortunately the complexity of the investigation means it may take up to 2 weeks, but I can assure you we will get back to you.

Wouldn't this be a better response rather then admitting to a technical issue, only to retract the confession at a later stage?

As a customer, I'd personally be happy to accept this kind of response, and as long as it's communicated politely, which I'd expect from betat, I would see no reason not to be patient for the response.

Perhaps inadvertently, but I think in this case betat made the issue worse for themselves.

Just my opinion and suggestions, but I'm a little scared of ever having a problem with betat now. I think both parties need to chill.

Edit: I was writing this whilst Igor posted his above response, so just wanted to add that. I appreciate the response Igor, and accept it, however I'll stand by my comments regarding being extra careful how things are communicated to avoid future cases such as this. Also, no-one here thinks or believes you guys are rogue, so don't stress that.
 
Last edited:

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
All above are valid points. Thanks for that, and I'll ensure I reflect on that personally and also implement better communication processes.

Igor
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
WHAT? Someone from BetAt did this? WTF?

It's further attempts to discredit us unfortunately. As we looked at the case, a connection with IP link came to light with another account that has been posting on this thread. When my team informed me that TWO posters are IP connected, i wanted to check why that is. Multiple accounts per household are against T&C's so instead of blocking the accounts and adding fuel to the fire, I messaged to user here to ask if there is a connection.

The original request:

Hi,

Can you please tell me what is your connection with XXX XXX?

Looking at his account it would appear that you both have same IP login, same Surname and Same address.

Kindly let me know

Thank you

Igor

The user replied with stating they are family members, that he thought this will appear now and if that is a problem and also said to check with 32Red if need be, to which i replied verbatim,

Hi XXX

Not at all, the CS just noted and since i know you here i thought id rather ask amicably and put a note on the account "XXX", rather than start investigating.

Igor

That was the end of. After that message the user posted here and also noted their connection publicly. I did want to ensure they were 2 different people however and not the same person since the IP is the same.
 

Azzurri

Banned User
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
From Foil Land
WHAT? Someone from BetAt did this? WTF?

Regardless of this situation I'm pretty sure most casinos are well within their rights to do this should they have reason to suspect multiple accounts from the same IP address and/or household.

Most terms state that only one account per household, per IP address are permitted.

Given this particular situation, Shane has given them good reason to investigate any and all possibilities, so I don't see any issue in them investigating this if it's within their terms. Shane's brother also commented on this post in support of Shane, so Betat have a motive to investigate and be sure.

Most casinos probably don't just investigate this randomly anyway, so when any issue is raised by a customer that can't be explained, then obviously they now have cause to investigate every scenario as the customer has advertised themselves and made themselves known.

If you complain against a casino, I think it would be naive to think you won't be fully investigated for foul play. In this case Shane had a credible complaint due to the conflicting information that was given.

Edit: Once again Betat beat me to it, lol.
 
Last edited:

PNEFOREVER2

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Location
Preston,lancs
To be fair Igor did contact me just to make sure we were 2 different people.

I actually predicted the PM as I've had it from other casinos before. No problem.
 

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