Slots Fairness Discussion (Cut from Other Thread)

[trancemonkey]

Ok trancemonkey, Ive analysed this "Valley of Gods" slot from Yggrasil... Have you ever played it? If you wanna se slots that is not random you can look at that slot. So many pattersn you recognize hwne playign it that is not random.
If you won o na spin, you mostly you get same symbols on reels 1,2 and 3 on tha first stop before opening up more positions. For ex those red bird symbols. You never see the green cat symbols on that first level...and on the second level if you win o nthe first you very often gets those green cat symbols on reel 1, 2 and 4....and not other wins so you lose. Same with oraange snake symbol...you get it quite often along with green cats when all positions is cleared but there is levels certain symbols can not stop in winnign positions. Really rigged it is in many way... And with that second highest symbols, a green bigger cat...it often stops in forst level on reel 1,2 and 3 in different combos...but almpost never that same paying gold godess or what its called. And playing this slot logn enough youll know if you will reach next lever or not before tha bonus spins starts.. its like the slot have only a few variations of symbols availibe to show...and you get almost same spins over and over...you recognise the spins even though htere are millions teoretical combos. And the slot act the same for a long time..same spins over and over....also the reels are locked to each other that reel after the other cant stop in certain position depending of hos the last reel stopped...for ex you will never get several reels in a row with 3 of the same symbols close together on a stack and the next 2, 3 or more reels look the same...there are always a reel of 1 or 2 same symbols between those reels with stacks of 3...but...there is a but, it CAN happen and the slot CAN give spins you have never seen before in very short periods...eventhough its not theoreticaly hard to get or high paying... My conclusion is that the slot is only "random" and very short peruiods...inbetween 98% of the time you spins those same spins you see all the time.
This is a perfect example of slot that exploit itself how badly programmed some slots are... Its sad because I like it very much...It do pay sometimes good but it ruin the fun when its so obvious the reels and symbols are just a show for the lottery in the background. Ive not seen this on any other slot in my life, why they do this? Is it just lazy programming and making the slot go faster when when no hard mathematcial programming need obviusly? Its like only when you get those sets of spins that you dont reconize from before you feel the slot is alive and doin some work in the background. Normally you just play with a dead animal and pre-programmed outcome of spins...and there is ofcorase these loong periods with 10-25 spins in a row with zero payout... Its like the slot syncing the payout when those come...the nomber of dead spisn in a row depends of how much ahead you are in payout from a certain timestamp. And sometimes you dont see long periods of zero payouts in a row..maybe becayse the slot dont need to sync becose you are already below average payout.

While I talk Yggrasil.. another thing with Rainbow Ryan...when you hit free spins, often you dont win anything on first 6 free spins but then you will win a quite big win on the last spin when you hit 7 free spins. It is not random ofcoarse.. How could they program the slot so bad when people like you says slots are completly random and dont know anything about what you hit the spins before? Its not much that IS random with slots. Same with freespins...if you are dealt 10 free spins from the casino, the slot "feels" how many spins you have cause if you dont hit much on all first spins you will hit a feature or something bigger on that last spin. Its happen me almost everytime I get 5-15 free spisn from Rizk for ex. I never hit 100x bet on Pyramid: Q f I but now serveral tiems i na row Ive won 5 or 15 free spisn Ive hit atleast one really big win on those free spins. Do the slot according to you "feel" what the player have in account to play with, do the slot "check" the player account in some way when the player enter the slot?
Sorry for misspellings and bad grammar maybe..

As i've said many times, i can't comment on developers i haven't worked for or don't know people at - and Yggdrasil is one of those.
I've only played Valley of the Gods briefly, and whilst i like the mechanic, i wasn't overly keen on the way it played. Mainly because,, as you say, i thought i could tell what it was doing...

Does that means it's "rigged"? Well, by my definition, probably not, but by your definition it might be - in that it is changing the behaviour of the respins / free spins based on whats happened before... In some jurisdictions, this is allowed as it's all happening in one credit, not over multiple credits.

Rainbow Ryan - the rules do state that extra rainbow reels will be added as the feature progresses, so naturally the free games will get better towards the end...

And no, i can't imagine anyone (with the exception of social casinos) checking your balance to see what you have in it... that would be extremely illegal and damn stupid..

 

[Gonzo]

there is nothing fair about thiss discusting online slots... Lost 15k euro won 24k now lost 27800 in total not a cashout. Have triggered about 300-400 bonus 1 time has it payed 100x. My last session was now for about 5 min i was lowrolling... Played the fucking diskusting netent games. Gonzo... bonus on 4euros payd 5.35 then on 3 euro i got 4euro on 10frefalls”bonus” 6 euros bet 20 frefalls 64 euro win.. No fuck this shit only a money would say this is not rigged. Fuck netent and this with onlinecasino im fucking done with this shit..

 

[Gonzo]

I do play with my own money - regularly. Online and offline. In many countries too... please don't assume that i'm not a player, because i am.
I may not gamble as much as some people on here, but i gamble enough - and to be honest, i would never be able to design a game if i HADN'T played with my own money - because you need to understand the emotions, the psychology, the feelings of winning / losing...

U should talk about uneestandig emotion too the fucker on netent... when u deposit tousand of euro and trigger a bonus ho pay u 3euros back.

 

[aceking123]

There is one thing for sure as a seasoned member & been playing online for years , there clearly is no doubt in my findings that it clearly is not the casinos that hold all the info , but the servers do & yes they know every single penny you have played does not matter which casino it is , maybe food for thought here , rigged,compensated or anything else im sure their is some winners but this amounts to 5% of players , ive been recording 3months of data on MTsecure data & the average rtp% is around 64.98% this includes many thousands of deposits , no player is this unlucky doesnt matter what game is played either , this is now formatting that i know im going to have a monster session with any casino from MTsecure to balance the books of my play .
Think of it as you will , but something is fishy regarding online games.

 

[goatwack]

I think those that wise up to what's going on and see its compensated behaviours abandon gambling, whilst the others continue trying to figure it out.

We're told it's random etc to keep us playing, and so we carry on, in the belief that nothing is amiss. I don't think players need millions of spins to sample a game's patterns- several hundred are more than adequate. Then you'll get those doing 1000s of spins and still not getting any results. How can this be, so consistently?

I'm also more and more of the belief that it has little to do with the casinos themselves, but the software's servers. It is where we get the information from, so it's strange not to think some of it is heading the other way and being stored. IPs are feverishly observed by casinos, why should it matter as much as they claim.

Of course for every lost player there'll be two to replace them. And with what, 400,000 kids now gambling in the UK the future looks quite bright for these companies and their shady practices

 

[Tourettesguy]

How about this then. A player at a casino have a 96% average lifetime payout (or am I wrong already? lol) But most casino probably give a total of 50% in bonus chips such as match offers and free chips, free spins and more.
Let say a player deposit €100,000 in his lifetime...gets €50,000 in bonusmoney..thats around €150,000 and 96% payout the player should get around €130,000 back but have only invested €100,000 in total...

Is there a difference on bonusmoney played in the casino system, does it not count? Its so easy for a casino manager to create money just give the player a bonus...if the player lose the money appeard from nothing and just disapeard after that gamesession. How does this affect the over all casino payout?

 

[Tourettesguy]

As i've said many times, i can't comment on developers i haven't worked for or don't know people at - and Yggdrasil is one of those.
I've only played Valley of the Gods briefly, and whilst i like the mechanic, i wasn't overly keen on the way it played. Mainly because,, as you say, i thought i could tell what it was doing...

Does that means it's "rigged"? Well, by my definition, probably not, but by your definition it might be - in that it is changing the behaviour of the respins / free spins based on whats happened before... In some jurisdictions, this is allowed as it's all happening in one credit, not over multiple credits.

Rainbow Ryan - the rules do state that extra rainbow reels will be added as the feature progresses, so naturally the free games will get better towards the end...

And no, i can't imagine anyone (with the exception of social casinos) checking your balance to see what you have in it... that would be extremely illegal and damn stupid..

Ok ,I appreciate the anwer.. But we do see(atleast me) strange payout on for ex last spin before reaching zero balance and other stuff that prove the slot do know what the player balance is and compensating and more...many time you go down a bit and you hit a feature and you end up exactly at start balance...if cant be just random. And Ive seen sooo many extraodinary hits here on the forum and done it myself...on that last spins you hit that insane balnce saver... But like someone said here earlier its just those you remember and so on but its wrong.. Ofcorase huges hit occour in middle of sessions but when you have done 2000+ spins with no bigger win at all and you hit an amazing hit on last spin its not random...if you had been able to make 50 more spins before reaching zero you would NOT have gotten that mega hit on that spin... That is for sure.

Rainbiw Ryan...I hear you but if you get zero payouts on first 6 of 7 spins...you will always hit a mega win on last spin...and that slot do often just give 3 synced reels on last spin...but very often you have 3 reels earier and those rarely pay..the must stay on reel 1-3 or 2-4 to maybe pay...but on last spin when lost on all spinsn before it doesnt matter were those synced reels are, you will win a much bigger amount.. Try it, someone please show me a 0-100 coin win from free spins on RR. Something is preventing the feature to pay too low or nothing.

Im really hooked on Valley of Gods slot...but its sad its so unrandom,(not saying its unfair). Sometime you are lucky to reach 5-7 extra lives during bonus spins but you can lose the mall in a row ending feature sadly. It could need an upgrade giving more mixed combos and maybe more than max 3 of the same symbols on a single reel. Well, it is what it is now...

 

[chris87]

IPs are feverishly observed by casinos, why should it matter as much as they claim.

Very good point. I made a similar point some time ago in a similar debate.

All I know over the years of playing is that if you're lucky enough to hit a big win, forget withdrawing anything for some time, anywhere. I know it's said that it's psychological and there may be a bit of that, but the fact is that it "appears" there there is some compensation going on.

U should talk about uneestandig emotion too the fucker on netent... when u deposit tousand of euro and trigger a bonus ho pay u 3euros back.

I know you're a high roller. It's also clear to me from experience that if you hit a bonus on a high bet you'll be shafted. Gonzo is a case in point. I'm not such a high roller, but on £2.00 bets I get the free falls relatively regularly, sometimes 20 of them. On higher bets I've never hit 20 free falls. When I do hit the 10 on bets of £4.00 or above it regularly pays 5x or even less. The only time I hit 10 free falls on an £8.00 bet, 8 of them were dead spins and the outcome was 4x.

I'll say again that I don't believe slots are rigged as per the definition of the word, but the patterns that are reported are common to me and obviously other players. Even though my luck is certainly variable across casinos, I agree that it's down to the software servers.

Chris

 

[Gonzo]

I really dont know what to say or even why i touch this game. I have played it sens the reales i can swear that they changed the games. I wouldnt be angry or feel scamed if the bonus was eazy to trigger but its so hard to trigger and when u do! 7-8 of 10 is deadspins and it pays shit.I swear i have triggered the bonus atleast 400 times on this 27800euros ive lost sens my last cashout wich was on 24k. It feels so rigged and constantly nearmiss. I mean i love to gamle and i like to play but nowdays it dosent even feel like im gambling . I dont now why they are so greddy and i read about netent on forums players feels the same like me they see that they chabged the game. I dont wont to sound like a bitch crying.. Im just disopointed.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Look, it's very simple. Going back to where they first introduced 'player cards' and reward players with comps / food / hotel nights and all, there was a reason why player cards where introduced in the first place. Big data. It offers the casino floor realtime data and even bigger data on how players behave when playing slots. The online thing is no different. It offers even bigger and more broader gathering / harvesting of data in where everything can be done with without us even knowing whats happening with our 'playing data'. Everything is logged. Hence the "Lost connection" and "restoring last game session" for example. As i said before, the RTP might be set at 96% or advertised as it is, but as someone in here said already, that deviation is so low causing a loss anyway on every player. As i said before i tried 3 different online casino's with respectable name(s) but i encounter the very same at all of them.

I kept my word with closing my account. I really urge others to consider this even if they are looking at just this thread wondering of online slots are real, rigged, genuine or false. You are not alone. Above experiences are not made up and if someone lost 27k it's a pitty. I remember i got alot of emails straight before christmass and such where casino's urged to deposit and get a 50 up to 200% bonus fee. Consider this. The money you or others where supposed to spend on christmass is what they are trying to grab from u. Dont buy the advertisement or mailing lists in the first place. It's all to keep you playing and the longer you play the more worse the odds are going to be for you. A landbased casino will not call, email or send u a letter to come and play straight before christmass.

I went to the casino today, did just a few spins and bam 1400 euro. Had a free dinner as well and called it a day. THATS HOW YOU DO IT. You leave.

 

[interlog]

Look, it's very simple. Going back to where they first introduced 'player cards' and reward players with comps / food / hotel nights and all, there was a reason why player cards where introduced in the first place. Big data. It offers the casino floor realtime data and even bigger data on how players behave when playing slots. The online thing is no different. It offers even bigger and more broader gathering / harvesting of data in where everything can be done with without us even knowing whats happening with our 'playing data'. Everything is logged. Hence the "Lost connection" and "restoring last game session" for example. As i said before, the RTP might be set at 96% or advertised as it is, but as someone in here said already, that deviation is so low causing a loss anyway on every player. As i said before i tried 3 different online casino's with respectable name(s) but i encounter the very same at all of them.

I kept my word with closing my account. I really urge others to consider this even if they are looking at just this thread wondering of online slots are real, rigged, genuine or false. You are not alone. Above experiences are not made up and if someone lost 27k it's a pitty. I remember i got alot of emails straight before christmass and such where casino's urged to deposit and get a 50 up to 200% bonus fee. Consider this. The money you or others where supposed to spend on christmass is what they are trying to grab from u. Dont buy the advertisement or mailing lists in the first place. It's all to keep you playing and the longer you play the more worse the odds are going to be for you. A landbased casino will not call, email or send u a letter to come and play straight before christmass.

I went to the casino today, did just a few spins and bam 1400 euro. Had a free dinner as well and called it a day. THATS HOW YOU DO IT. You leave.

Even at a brick and mortar casino you are to set to lose long term. It is no different to playing online slots. If you believe different, you are disillusioned, only kidding yourself or you have been extremely lucky to walk away with a profit (this time!).

 

[Bloatgoat]

This time .... I come for over 3+ years in a landbased casino and 7 out of 10 times i get out with profit.

It's all about disipline. I've tried online slots for more then a year spreaded over 3 different names / brands / respectable companies being recommended everywhere. I tell you straight up my luck in a landbased casino is far better then online. And yes i have a large bankroll but what happens online is just BS.

I'll give you a free spin example. i.e 15 free spins on some sort of new game. You toss in autoplay, win ~8 up to 10 euro, and spend this into your favorite game again. It seems to continue 'wager' or whatever the fuck it's doing to 'peak' at like 15 euro, and then smash you to pieces no matter what you do. Online slots IS to my understanding scripted. Esp with the bonus.

Why are online casino's offering bonusses such as 'free money' in the first place? Why they dont have this on the landbased? You put in 50 and the thing magically rewards you with another 50 euro of playing money.

It's real simple. Their payout is that fucking shitty that there MUST BE a reason why they are throwing so many bonus awards and shit, to keep you playing. You are paying actually for some online and expensive entertainment, with just 5 up to 15% 'luck' that you might hit.

If a slot does'nt work on a landbased casino, i move on, find another one. Try my luck there. This cant be said for online. You have just 'one' virtual online slot of your favourite game and that's it. Online slots stink. Their graphics are ripoff. The gameplay is not even close to the real thing. The lines as well, are 'capped' from 40 to 20. Why in the world would they do that?

House advantage.

 

[SpinUk]

This time .... I come for over 3+ years in a landbased casino and 7 out of 10 times i get out with profit.

It's all about disipline. I've tried online slots for more then a year spreaded over 3 different names / brands / respectable companies being recommended everywhere. I tell you straight up my luck in a landbased casino is far better then online. And yes i have a large bankroll but what happens online is just BS.

I'll give you a free spin example. i.e 15 free spins on some sort of new game. You toss in autoplay, win ~8 up to 10 euro, and spend this into your favorite game again. It seems to continue 'wager' or whatever the fuck it's doing to 'peak' at like 15 euro, and then smash you to pieces no matter what you do. Online slots IS to my understanding scripted. Esp with the bonus.

Why are online casino's offering bonusses such as 'free money' in the first place? Why they dont have this on the landbased? You put in 50 and the thing magically rewards you with another 50 euro of playing money.

It's real simple. Their payout is that fucking shitty that there MUST BE a reason why they are throwing so many bonus awards and shit, to keep you playing. You are paying actually for some online and expensive entertainment, with just 5 up to 15% 'luck' that you might hit.

If a slot does'nt work on a landbased casino, i move on, find another one. Try my luck there. This cant be said for online. You have just 'one' virtual online slot of your favourite game and that's it. Online slots stink. Their graphics are ripoff. The gameplay is not even close to the real thing. The lines as well, are 'capped' from 40 to 20. Why in the world would they do that?

House advantage.

If they are fixed why do you get numerous posters saying after using tracking software they reach the advertised rtp within the first 100,000 for pretty much every game? Which is about right mathematically. Without being rude, Your post is just hearsay perhaps bolstered by a lucky night on the landbased casinos. That said, do I think slots do work within patterns (dead for hours and then very streaky), which studies have shown to be MORE addictive than a truly random outcome. I’d love to know how that’s implemented whilst keeping within the various jurisdictions legal rules, but either way its not proveable.

I think the “random” nature is more not knowing when the streak or dead spin cycle will end, than each spin being truly random and independent. They are two similar but quite differant things.

 

[Bloatgoat]

People would continue to play knowing it would happen at some point. Yes i can imagine that. I had a few occasions myself as well, in landbased to drop in over 4 grand and finanlly hit the JP with 8 grand profit. But still if there was a pattern to be found, yes i can clarify that.

- Lots of dead spins
- Lots of low wins to keep within the RTP
- Calculations based on BETS VS WINS, not your actual deposit ratio
- Lots of perceptions, a near hit, near full screen, one missing symbol etc
- 3 deposits and finally going back where you started

I have a friend who i am telling him the same. Stop playing online. The guy calculated to drop in over like 40k in the last 2 years. That is alot of money. And he never got any higher then a 10 grand. Everything from there was blocked, there was a noticable lag upon every spin, does'nt matter which game, and NO it was'nt the connection or anything in that order. His problem is disipline, he does'nt know when to stop. So he loses that 10 grand anyhow and actually believing the casino would compensate him for 35 grand at least at some point. I think that is very silly to believe.

But again; everyone for their own. I just feel like online play is not the real thing and it's defenitly not random, comes close to advertised RTP (such low deviation), the harsh reality it's not even close to 15%. If you want to try landbased casino's, goto officials only. Leave the gaming stations with various slots alone. The ones who do bookies in the UK. They are very simular to german spielhalle and they have a 60% RTP (some even 53% !!) At least from my experience is that 85% is even better then the online circus.

It bothers me that they are putting out emails with offers such as up to 250% bonus upon deposit right before christmass. I did'nt buy it, ofcourse, but i know there are people who can be vulnerable for such offers. And those online casino's know right when to strike for those who are weaker. My casino never writes, emails or calls me up and tells me, hey come by tonight, we'll give you 250% extra upon your deposit on a slot. Lol. Where do they get the 250% from you think? It's all math as you said. They know the actual RTP is that bad and they can stuff you up with 250% of deposit money.

Merry christmass people.

 

[interlog]

People would continue to play knowing it would happen at some point. Yes i can imagine that. I had a few occasions myself as well, in landbased to drop in over 4 grand and finanlly hit the JP with 8 grand profit. But still if there was a pattern to be found, yes i can clarify that.

- Lots of dead spins
- Lots of low wins to keep within the RTP
- Calculations based on BETS VS WINS, not your actual deposit ratio
- Lots of perceptions, a near hit, near full screen, one missing symbol etc
- 3 deposits and finally going back where you started

I have a friend who i am telling him the same. Stop playing online. The guy calculated to drop in over like 40k in the last 2 years. That is alot of money. And he never got any higher then a 10 grand. Everything from there was blocked, there was a noticable lag upon every spin, does'nt matter which game, and NO it was'nt the connection or anything in that order. His problem is disipline, he does'nt know when to stop. So he loses that 10 grand anyhow and actually believing the casino would compensate him for 35 grand at least at some point. I think that is very silly to believe.

But again; everyone for their own. I just feel like online play is not the real thing and it's defenitly not random, comes close to advertised RTP (such low deviation), the harsh reality it's not even close to 15%. If you want to try landbased casino's, goto officials only. Leave the gaming stations with various slots alone. The ones who do bookies in the UK. They are very simular to german spielhalle and they have a 60% RTP (some even 53% !!) At least from my experience is that 85% is even better then the online circus.

It bothers me that they are putting out emails with offers such as up to 250% bonus upon deposit right before christmass. I did'nt buy it, ofcourse, but i know there are people who can be vulnerable for such offers. And those online casino's know right when to strike for those who are weaker. My casino never writes, emails or calls me up and tells me, hey come by tonight, we'll give you 250% extra upon your deposit on a slot. Lol. Where do they get the 250% from you think? It's all math as you said. They know the actual RTP is that bad and they can stuff you up with 250% of deposit money.

Merry christmass people.

Casinos can give those bonuses because of the wagering requirement not because of the RTP which is higher than at a brick and mortar casino.

I gave up playing at the brick and mortar casinos because the money didn't last as long compared to online.

 

[Gaz237]

This thread is complete bonkers.

Has given me quite a laugh reading through the last few pages.

 

[goatwack]

I always convince myself that slots are rigged, right up to the point where I win. I hate how it blows my theory out of the water. It's like they're trying to prove me wrong

 

[trancemonkey]

This thread is complete bonkers.

Has given me quite a laugh reading through the last few pages.

It's quite interesting watching the same people say the same things over and over again ...

The same people that refuse to believe anything other than their own theories and opinions.

I'm not going to even try and convince anyone in this thread any more of the actual facts.

The best thing they could do is program their own "slot machine" so they know it's 100% random and then play it... And then when they start to see the same "patterns" they see in the machines they believe are also rigged they may have an epiphany.

But as I'll repeat.. if you think they are rigged, go to the authorities. Or papers. Or stop playing. Or a combination of any of those options.

 

[trancemonkey]

People would continue to play knowing it would happen at some point. Yes i can imagine that. I had a few occasions myself as well, in landbased to drop in over 4 grand and finanlly hit the JP with 8 grand profit. But still if there was a pattern to be found, yes i can clarify that.

- Lots of dead spins
- Lots of low wins to keep within the RTP
- Calculations based on BETS VS WINS, not your actual deposit ratio
- Lots of perceptions, a near hit, near full screen, one missing symbol etc
- 3 deposits and finally going back where you started

I have a friend who i am telling him the same. Stop playing online. The guy calculated to drop in over like 40k in the last 2 years. That is alot of money. And he never got any higher then a 10 grand. Everything from there was blocked, there was a noticable lag upon every spin, does'nt matter which game, and NO it was'nt the connection or anything in that order. His problem is disipline, he does'nt know when to stop. So he loses that 10 grand anyhow and actually believing the casino would compensate him for 35 grand at least at some point. I think that is very silly to believe.

But again; everyone for their own. I just feel like online play is not the real thing and it's defenitly not random, comes close to advertised RTP (such low deviation), the harsh reality it's not even close to 15%. If you want to try landbased casino's, goto officials only. Leave the gaming stations with various slots alone. The ones who do bookies in the UK. They are very simular to german spielhalle and they have a 60% RTP (some even 53% !!) At least from my experience is that 85% is even better then the online circus.

It bothers me that they are putting out emails with offers such as up to 250% bonus upon deposit right before christmass. I did'nt buy it, ofcourse, but i know there are people who can be vulnerable for such offers. And those online casino's know right when to strike for those who are weaker. My casino never writes, emails or calls me up and tells me, hey come by tonight, we'll give you 250% extra upon your deposit on a slot. Lol. Where do they get the 250% from you think? It's all math as you said. They know the actual RTP is that bad and they can stuff you up with 250% of deposit money.

Merry christmass people.

All games in the UK both online and land-based have to display the RTP. There are no games in the UK anywhere as low as you say there are.

You are entitled to your opinion but on this (and many other points you make here) you are wrong.

 

[Bloatgoat]

You can have all the online slots you want. Go ahead. Please, do so I dare to believe different. I dont think in maths, numbers and all. I follow my guts. And i simply know when something is solid or not. Online slots stink.

And if that is'nt sufficient, then online casino's do:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Someone dropped in 100 pounds, made a win and withdrawl of over 2 grand. Here comes unibet saying nah documents not valid, account closed, money gone.

 

[trancemonkey]

You can have all the online slots you want. Go ahead. Please, do so I dare to believe different. I dont think in maths, numbers and all. I follow my guts. And i simply know when something is solid or not. Online slots stink.

And if that is'nt sufficient, then online casino's do:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Someone dropped in 100 pounds, made a win and withdrawl of over 2 grand. Here comes unibet saying nah documents not valid, account closed, money gone.

So to paraphrase...

"I don't believe in statistics or facts, i know the truth because I can feel it..."

That is not really gonna hold up to scrutiny is it

 

[interlog]

So to paraphrase...

"I don't believe in statistics or facts, i know the truth because I can feel it..."

That is not really gonna hold up to scrutiny is it

There is no point arguing with somebody that claims he can stop the reels for a big win at a brick and mortar casino by touching the screen at the right moment.

 

[trancemonkey]

There is no point arguing with somebody that claims he can stop the reels for a big win at a brick and mortar casino by touching the screen at the right moment.

And the best thing about it is that we put this feature in for two types of people - speed players (those who just want a bonus) and the “skill-stoppers” (those who think they have an element of control on the reels).

Nice to know that people still fall for that psychological trick

I wonder how he explains how the machines work in countries with minimum game times where slam stop (as we call it) is not allowed....

Anyway he’s our ideal player so I don’t care what he thinks as long as he’s playing games somewhere

 

[Bloatgoat]

Sorry,

I dont think you ever came close to designing a game that actually KNOWS how to keep me bothered.

 

[Gonzo]

hope all at the office at netent dies i really mean it... now i find a new way to not gamble netent slots anymore. i just log in the fb and have a look at their discustings faces... that makes me dont touch their multirigged slots.

 

[maxd]

hope all at the office at netent dies i really mean it...

I don't care how much they've pissed you off, saying you want them to die is totally over the top and unacceptable.

Consider this a Warning that a repeat of such behaviour is going to get you banned.

 

[Gonzo]

U are right that was way to much. I appoligize... not because of the warning but im actully a nice guy ho havent hurt somone or wont to do that ever in my life. I was litlle uppset after onother bad session

 

[Bloatgoat]

Soooo..... yesterday went in with 500. Leaving the place in less then 30 minutes with 4500.



I challenge any of you to head out online with 500 to spend. I bet your ass it'll be gone before you know it.

 

[Tirilej]

So when you're lucky you believe you're smart?

When you lose then they have gathered up against you in some way?

I actually feel a bit sorry for you but I guess that won't help either

 

[Bloatgoat]

If your trying to make me look stupid, it's not working. My point being is; i archieve a far better luck in land based then online. That is the point here.

 

[Tirilej]

If your trying to make me look stupid, it's not working. My point being is; i archieve a far better luck in land based then online. That is the point here.

No that wasn't your point. You were trying to show off by saying that you had the skills to win while others wouldn't make it. If anything sounds stupid then it's that.
So I didn't need to try and make you look stupid. You did that yourself.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Yeah whatever,

Online slots are bullshit. Keep on playing if you believe the thing is genuine 'fair'.

 

[Tourettesguy]

Ok, look 8:36 into this clip...the following 2 spins...anyone seeing anyhting that is not random?
Maybe trancemonkey can explain whats goin on here?



Ive seen this phenomenon at other softwares too, what in RNG equation allowing this to happen?

 

[trancemonkey]

Ok, look 8:36 into this clip...the following 2 spins...anyone seeing anyhting that is not random?
Maybe trancemonkey can explain whats goin on here?



Ive seen this phenomenon at other softwares too, what in RNG equation allowing this to happen?

So what your'e saying is that because the same large X group landed in the same place, something is rigged right?
So you have never had a scatter symbol land in the same place on, say, reel 5 on two consecutive spins? Or even a reel land in EXACTLY the same place on two consecutive spins?
This video only serves to prove randomness - not the other way around. You had the same symbol land in the same place two spins in a row? So what... that's hardly news...

Come on guys - if you're going to cry rigged (and i don't believe Yggdrasil are 100% fair either btw) then at least show something that is actual proof...

 

[slotter999]

So what your'e saying is that because the same large X group landed in the same place, something is rigged right?
So you have never had a scatter symbol land in the same place on, say, reel 5 on two consecutive spins? Or even a reel land in EXACTLY the same place on two consecutive spins?
This video only serves to prove randomness - not the other way around. You had the same symbol land in the same place two spins in a row? So what... that's hardly news...

Come on guys - if you're going to cry rigged (and i don't believe Yggdrasil are 100% fair either btw) then at least show something that is actual proof...

Whoa....you don't believe that are 100% fair? Why? I for one would be fascinated to hear your thoughts.

 

[SpinUk]

“Come on guys - if you're going to cry rigged (and i don't believe Yggdrasil are 100% fair either btw) then at least show something that is actual proof...”

Powerful stuff coming from a veteran developer against a mainstream games developer.

Tell me - taking this out of current context - playing devil’s advocate, if I am a rogue developer what exactly could I do to make my games unfair and stay under the radar of the user/regulator

 

[snorky510238]

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH. This is my opinion(and only my opinion)lets go back to basics £25 jackpot slots for instance.I don't know definite figures but if the jackpot just dropped you knew it wouldn't drop again until the machine had taken for example £130 pound maybe.That is fixed and guarantees the providers profit it's obvious.Then you had poker machines where the player could double their winnings every time by gambling on whether or not the next card would be higher or lower than the one they were given.How many times did you get to the make or break gamble with a 3 go higher and hey presto it was a 2.You knew in your mind that it was fixed but you just had to accept it.Technology has moved on a lot since then but the basics haven't it just makes it easier for the suppliers and hirers of these games to hoodwink you with the all singing all dancing screens.This is my opinion only of how its done(and not without a lot of experience and insight)Lets start with the biggest con of all time FOBTS and mainly the roulette.When these first came out its my opinion that the suppliers to betting shops(this is a guess but I don't think it's far off the mark)said something like "You will lose money for the first 3 months but we will compensate you for this(because let's face it everyone was winning to start with)but we will guarantee that in the next 5 years you will never have seen profits like it.So let's say the machines were paying out for arguments sake 105% for the first 3 months,98% for the next 3,95% for the next 3.By now everybody is hooked and talking about it(best publicity ever)Then the long term plan comes into action the next 6 months at 92%(most players wouldn't notice a difference)next 6 at 90% and so on until 15 years down the line the FOBTS are paying out a miserly 50%(these figures are guessed but for an example)Respectable people have lost homes,life savings and in some cases even worse than that and nothing has ever been done.Which tells me one thing the companies that supposedly audit the fairness of FOBTS and the % payout either don't exist,don't know what they are looking,are open to persuasion or are being hoodwinked too.The reason I have used this example is online casinos are just an extension of high street betting shops and are going to work in exactly the same way.Lets face it how many of us started playing at an online casino took a welcome bonus and couldn't believe our luck when we had endless big wins features dropping in more often than normal hours of fun and withdrew 4 or 5 hundred at the end of it.Seeing the pattern now it's the honeymoon period.Its worth the casino taking the risk of letting you win because for every 1 person that doesn't play again a hundred will be married to the casino for life and as the years go on that rolling pin hits you harder everyday.So to round up do I think any type of software gaming is fixed(100%)do I think it can even be personalised so that your gaming experience on any given day is unique to you(100%) Remember this is only my opinion and is not meant to offend anyone in anyway after all I could just be some old fool who knows nothing.

 

[Tourettesguy]

This video only serves to prove randomness - not the other way around.

LOL...youre kidding Ihope...what is the odds for a set of symbols landing in that postions 2 spins in a row??...1:10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 trillion? Its not one symbol...its 9!!..on a slot with 6 reels and lots of positions..
Not saying the game is rigged or unfair...Im ahead bigtime on Yggdrasil games several weeks back...but I wonder what in the software and RNG make this happen...its not first time. Something must not be random...lacy programming or something. Playing Yggdrasil slots I feel I get same outcome in long periods...like something goin in a loop and then for short time periods thangs happens...you see "new" combinatuions...and then back to the loop of same spins.

 

[4048]

LOL...youre kidding Ihope...what is the odds for a set of symbols landing in that postions 2 spins in a row??...1:10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 trillion? Its not one symbol...its 9!!..on a slot with 6 reels and lots of positions..
Not saying the game is rigged or unfair...Im ahead bigtime on Yggdrasil games several weeks back...but I wonder what in the software and RNG make this happen...its not first time. Something must not be random...lacy programming or something. Playing Yggdrasil slots I feel I get same outcome in long periods...like something goin in a loop and then for short time periods thangs happens...you see "new" combinatuions...and then back to the loop of same spins.

Winning a lottery has even lower chances than hitting 3x3 Xs, but people keep doing that as well. Random is random.

 

[snorky510238]

Bashing a screen or a button mid spin, is about as futile as me shouting 'COME ON YOU B@STARD' when waiting for the D to drop in Bonanza.

But as it's worked on occasion - I thought maybe I would share my 'method' with you all...knock yourselves out!!

I am with you on that one Gilliebean lol

 

[snorky510238]

Bashing a screen or a button mid spin, is about as futile as me shouting 'COME ON YOU B@STARD' when waiting for the D to drop in Bonanza.

But as it's worked on occasion - I thought maybe I would share my 'method' with you all...knock yourselves out!!

 

[snorky510238]

In the casinos I go to the people who hold black cards are the people who spend and shed loads of money.

 

[snorky510238]

I think people get confused with the word rigged it seems to get used instead of the word programmed but essentially in the gaming world it means pretty much the same thing it just sounds harsher if people were saying that game is programmed nobody would take any notice when they use the word rigged everyone looks twice.The mere fact that a game is programmed means it is rigged(example a slot is said to payout 95% so it is programmed/rigged to pay that out)The problem is there is never a set time for this so how can you prove anything if a slot for arguments sake takes £10,000 in a year without paying out a penny then pays out £9500 the next day is that fair(I am using that as a hypothetical example to highlight the point)In my opinion there is no way a spin can be random there are so many examples of this I won't bore you with them all but here's one that's so obvious.The feature on butterfly staxx.You get 3 scatters and it gives you 5 spins in the feature game where you have twenty chrysalis tumbling down they either turn into butterflies or stay as they are so you should average 10 on the 1st spin over a period of time.You are lucky if you get two(I have even had spins where you get none at all)Given that there are only 2 outcomes it should be 50/50 if they turn to butterflies or not yet in all the times I have seen it trigger after 2 spins its extremely rare to hit more than 6 and on the very odd occasion you do the 3rd and 4th spin will produce next to nothing how is that random?What I am saying is slots have been rigged since the 1st one that was ever made they have to be to ensure they don't payout more than they take we all know this all we ask is that the somebody somewhere is making sure that if a casino says its slots pay out a certain percentage is that they actually do.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Slots are programmed. Slots are designed. RNG is ALWAYS within parameters, that can be the payout, the amount of payout at once, the time in between those payouts and you name it. I've seen it with my own eyes. So you think your playing a 'genuine' and 'fair' slot where every spin can make you a millionair n shit, think again. Slot machines with a 'huge' jackpot running in hundred thousands have a pre-determined how many spins before it actually hits.I think the glitches you see online is just bad programming. There is a reason why these games dont show up at landbased casino at all.

What I am saying is slots have been rigged since the 1st one that was ever made they have to be to ensure they don't payout more than they take we all know this all we ask is that the somebody somewhere is making sure that if a casino says its slots pay out a certain percentage is that they actually do.

Trancemonkey will state that every spin is genuine, and that every spin grants you to a huge payout or something. We all know the above is true. It's designed to make money. Not give money out for free. If you know a way to get 'free' money out of slots then those slots where pretty much idle for a longer time and that it already hitted it's payout threshold at some point. It's never free money.

 

[TheAddict]

I am with you on that one Gilliebean lol

Dunno. I once saw a lad headbutt a machine so hard that the glass went through.
He stupidly marched off quickly right at the exact time he had unwittingly executed the trick, and being a regular in the arcade and knowing it was on camera already so i wouldnt get the blame for the glass all over the place, i walked over and span off his remaining credits and got a feature the very next press!
went round the freshly reshaped feature board a few times and collected £2 ! (Five jackpot) .

 

[snorky510238]

Just seen an advert that's on TV a lot lately the our jackpot has to drop before midnight one.How do they guarantee that will happen if every spin is random?

 

[trancemonkey]

LOL...youre kidding Ihope...what is the odds for a set of symbols landing in that postions 2 spins in a row??...1:10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 trillion? Its not one symbol...its 9!!..on a slot with 6 reels and lots of positions..
Not saying the game is rigged or unfair...Im ahead bigtime on Yggdrasil games several weeks back...but I wonder what in the software and RNG make this happen...its not first time. Something must not be random...lacy programming or something. Playing Yggdrasil slots I feel I get same outcome in long periods...like something goin in a loop and then for short time periods thangs happens...you see "new" combinatuions...and then back to the loop of same spins.

No it isn't - it's one symbol. It even lands as one big symbol.
There are many other times where you see "big symbols" land in this game. It's blindingly obvious they have "big symbols" (groups of symbols) in the maths.

If you can't see that, then i can't help you on this any more...

 

[trancemonkey]

Slots are programmed. Slots are designed. RNG is ALWAYS within parameters, that can be the payout, the amount of payout at once, the time in between those payouts and you name it. I've seen it with my own eyes. So you think your playing a 'genuine' and 'fair' slot where every spin can make you a millionair n shit, think again. Slot machines with a 'huge' jackpot running in hundred thousands have a pre-determined how many spins before it actually hits.I think the glitches you see online is just bad programming. There is a reason why these games dont show up at landbased casino at all.



Trancemonkey will state that every spin is genuine, and that every spin grants you to a huge payout or something. We all know the above is true. It's designed to make money. Not give money out for free. If you know a way to get 'free' money out of slots then those slots where pretty much idle for a longer time and that it already hitted it's payout threshold at some point. It's never free money.

I'll state i have a pet unicorn if you want - it's more truthful than 'slots are all rigged'...

You can believe whatever you want to believe - that's the joy of opinions... just because you're wrong doesn't make your opinion any less valid...
If you come to ICE you can see my new game - it's got progressives on it - and i guarantee you there is no pre-programmed number of spins before you will hit the jackpot.
They don't need a pre-determined number of spins because we work on averages - so we KNOW the jackpot will go on average every X number of spins and pay Y - it's pretty simple maths.

 

[trancemonkey]

Just seen an advert that's on TV a lot lately the our jackpot has to drop before midnight one.How do they guarantee that will happen if every spin is random?

Yeah - these are interesting aren't they... they are a little bit "grey" under some jurisdictions. It takes the "must hit by" idea for progressives to a different place.
Basically what happens with these type of jackpots is that they have a chance of winning them every spin (and that chance CAN NOT BE ZERO). Then, the nearer the end point the value gets (or in this case the nearer to midnight it is) the higher the chance. At it's "must go by" value (or time) the chance to win it is 100%. Obviously the chance isn't linear - it ramps up near the end.

I personally don't like these - i see it as a bit of a cheat, but that's how they work...

 

[trancemonkey]

I think people get confused with the word rigged it seems to get used instead of the word programmed but essentially in the gaming world it means pretty much the same thing it just sounds harsher if people were saying that game is programmed nobody would take any notice when they use the word rigged everyone looks twice.The mere fact that a game is programmed means it is rigged(example a slot is said to payout 95% so it is programmed/rigged to pay that out)The problem is there is never a set time for this so how can you prove anything if a slot for arguments sake takes £10,000 in a year without paying out a penny then pays out £9500 the next day is that fair(I am using that as a hypothetical example to highlight the point)In my opinion there is no way a spin can be random there are so many examples of this I won't bore you with them all but here's one that's so obvious.The feature on butterfly staxx.You get 3 scatters and it gives you 5 spins in the feature game where you have twenty chrysalis tumbling down they either turn into butterflies or stay as they are so you should average 10 on the 1st spin over a period of time.You are lucky if you get two(I have even had spins where you get none at all)Given that there are only 2 outcomes it should be 50/50 if they turn to butterflies or not yet in all the times I have seen it trigger after 2 spins its extremely rare to hit more than 6 and on the very odd occasion you do the 3rd and 4th spin will produce next to nothing how is that random?What I am saying is slots have been rigged since the 1st one that was ever made they have to be to ensure they don't payout more than they take we all know this all we ask is that the somebody somewhere is making sure that if a casino says its slots pay out a certain percentage is that they actually do.

God no - we don't want compensated fruit machines online...
UnionJackpots.com tried something like this (although of course they tried to do them randomly to remain legal) and they were dreadful...

This thread shows, unfortunately, that there is a lot of misconception, misbelief, misinformation, etc.. about how slots work. I've tried to explain it in the AMA thread, but of course some people will never believe me... but anyway, slots are mathematically balanced so that over time they will of course hit the RTP. The balance is in the law of large numbers...

Here's an example - around 1/3 of all the FOBT machines in Ladbrokes in the UK in any one day will make a loss. Some make huge losses. But the other 2/3's will either break even or make a profit. And because of the large number of games played, in any one day the overall RTP of all the games is pretty much smack on what it should be. And that's how it works.

Some of you, especially in this thread, won't ever believe me - that's fine... but please do one thing for me... If you ask a question or post a comment, at least have the decency to consider the answer rather than just dismiss it out of hand. Remember guys, i have 100% proof that all the slots i've made, and from all the providers i know personally, are not rigged. You guys just have "feelings" and "experiences" which is, i'm afraid to say, not the same as actually having done the maths for games!