slotocash voided 12,400 win

[LaHutti]

This is not the same complaint, and in my opinion, the complaint at Gambling Grumbles is far worse as there no rules were broke but sloto is applying the spirit of the bonus to a player who deposited $400, took 400% then (according to sloto, not the OP) bet the max of $50 on a slot (still only 3% of the bonus), hit big, then bet the max on 20 line games and "grinded it out" at $20 per spin and is having his money confiscated. Not only was he within the rules completely, but the "advantage play" element is extremely doubtful as well.

Yes, no one is taking sloto to task on that one, but slamming sloto for a case where the rules were clearly broken.

So if you bet big .... in one case big is 6.75 ... you're wrong, and won't get paid, and if you bet low ... in this case $20 you're also wrong, and "grinding"... wow, I wish I could "grind" at $20 a pop....LOL
This is all complete and utter bs in my opinion, and only a matter of Sloto not wanting to pay winnings.... and other players SHOULD be warned about outfits like this, the more the better.

 

[Nifty29]

So if you bet big .... in one case big is 6.75 ... you're wrong, and won't get paid, and if you bet low ... in this case $20 you're also wrong, and "grinding"... wow, I wish I could "grind" at $20 a pop....LOL
This is all complete and utter bs in my opinion, and only a matter of Sloto not wanting to pay winnings.... and other players SHOULD be warned about outfits like this, the more the better.

Please provide examples of players who were denied winnings even though no.terms were broken. The one at grumbling grumbles can't be counted because we dont know the full story...that MAY be a case of spirit of the bonus and therefore would be one such example.

Good luck with finding the others.

It would also be interesting to start a thread asking.if members have ever had winnings confiscated...by whom and why. You will find its not a common occurrence for the average player.

Follow the rules and you'll get paid. It's pretty simple really.

 

[Przecinek]

I have to agree that having to refrain yourself from expressing empathy towards someone who had thought they have won 12.000 seems a bit strange.

In the last few years, I can see less and less polite comments from different posters towards people who inadvertently broke the terms.
More and more often they're along the lines "You're still here?", "Give it a break already", "what part of t&c you don't get" etc...

Not sure what amounts of money this (seemingly) professional player operates with, but if I had won a random jackpot (never happed yet) and then made a mistake that would cost me all of it I'd be depressed for at least a month, and would probably contemplate quitting online gambling altogether.

The case is closed anyway, and OP doesn't have a leg to stand on - so this is a general remark. I'm not aiming at anyone in particular, so if anyone feels offended I guess it's a case of - "if the cap fits wear it", and those people should take a more tactful approach/attitude.

 

[slotjunkie]

I have to agree that having to refrain yourself from expressing empathy towards someone who had thought they have won 12.000 seems a bit strange.

In the last few years, I can see less and less polite comments from different posters towards people who inadvertently broke the terms.
More and more often they're along the lines "You're still here?", "Give it a break already", "what part of t&c you don't get" etc...

Not sure what amounts of money this (seemingly) professional player operates with, but if I had won a random jackpot (never happed yet) and then made a mistake that would cost me all of it I'd be depressed for at least a month, and would probably contemplate quitting online gambling altogether.

The case is closed anyway, and OP doesn't have a leg to stand on - so this is a general remark. I'm not aiming at anyone in particular, so if anyone feels offended I guess it's a case of - "if the cap fits wear it", and those people should take a more tactful approach/attitude.

No human should be talked to like they are a piece of garbage regardless of the situation. Even if they have clearly committed fraud, yes I said it. Their actions will catch up to them and they will get what they deserve.
There is entirely too much judgement of people on this forum. Who they h*ll gave some of you the right in your mind to talk to another human in such demeaning and degrading ways.
How about taping a mirror on the screen of your laptop/pc, so you can take a look at yourself and especially before you start typing ugly words towards another.

 

[funeral979]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but what happened to the winnings from the random jackpot?

Were the funds replaced? Did the office have a pizza party?

Im sure the public would like to know since many have contributed to this jackpot....

 

[Nifty29]

No human should be talked to like they are a piece of garbage regardless of the situation. Even if they have clearly committed fraud, yes I said it. Their actions will catch up to them and they will get what they deserve.
There is entirely too much judgement of people on this forum. Who they h*ll gave some of you the right in your mind to talk to another human in such demeaning and degrading ways.
How about taping a mirror on the screen of your laptop/pc, so you can take a look at yourself and especially before you start typing ugly words towards another.

You mean like you're doing right now? If I want a sermon I'll go to church.

I didn't see anyone "degrading" or "demeaning" the OP here. Could you provide some examples please?

I can certainly understand some members being pissed at the OP though, given they found it "difficult to recall the facts" (for want of a better phrase that we have been asked not to use)

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but what happened to the winnings from the random jackpot?

Were the funds replaced? Did the office have a pizza party?

Im sure the public would like to know since many have contributed to this jackpot....

Good question.

It should be answered.

If the RJ was not replaced, then we have an entirely different situation in which Sloto's integrity would be brought into question.

 

[chuchu59]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but what happened to the winnings from the random jackpot?

Were the funds replaced? Did the office have a pizza party?

Im sure the public would like to know since many have contributed to this jackpot....

Ms Sloto should be monitoring this thread so I expect her to provide us with an answer pretty soon.

 

[slotjunkie]

You mean like you're doing right now? If I want a sermon I'll go to church.

I didn't see anyone "degrading" or "demeaning" the OP here. Could you provide some examples please?

I can certainly understand some members being pissed at the OP though, given they found it "difficult to recall the facts" (for want of a better phrase that we have been asked not to use)




Good question.

It should be answered.

If the RJ was not replaced, then we have an entirely different situation in which Sloto's integrity would be brought into question.

You can call it what you want, it doesn't matter to me, nor do you.

Perhaps this is precisely where you need to be

 

[Nifty29]

You can call it what you want, it doesn't matter to me, nor do you.

Perhaps this is precisely where you need to be

If I could find a church where the congregation didn't pontificate to others about how they should live their lives, I probably would. I've yet to find one.

I know where I need to be, and it isn't amongst a group of hypocrites.

 

[chuchu59]

C'mon the two of you. I dont want this thread to be closed before ms sloto answers funeral's question.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but what happened to the winnings from the random jackpot?

Were the funds replaced? Did the office have a pizza party?

Im sure the public would like to know since many have contributed to this jackpot....

I was wondering this, and was going to bring it up now that it appears Sloto have made their decision final in this case.

We don't need a reply, just a player with a Sloto account who can open the game in question and take a reading of the current RJ level. 12K doesn't grow overnight. The only other piece of information we need was when the OP hit the 12K RJ.

These RJs are casino specific, so only other Sloto players would have contributed. They will also have a seed supplied by the casino, which would not need to be returned as it has already been replaced when the RJ reset after the hit. If the seed was the standard 1K, it means only 11.4K needs returning, not the full 12.4K. If a higher seed is used (Rushmore for example use 5K, and have very large RJ totals), less needs to be returned.

Take too long, and it will hit again, and then it gets more complicated because that player should have hit an amount including the confiscated earlier pool.

This matter could quickly overtake the discussion over the confiscation of the OP's win, and have almost ALL players in agreement that Sloto should be replacing the RJ as soon as possible.

 

[Nifty29]

C'mon the two of you. I dont want this thread to be closed before ms sloto answers funeral's question.

Fair enough. . Sorry for the derail.

Has anyone pmed ms sloto re the question?

 

[Slotster!]

This latest development/question sort of illustrates my point perfectly.

A proper outfit would have contingency/process in place to deal with this. Appropriate and proper procedure would be followed and there would be no room (or time) for debate.

It's like the sort of emailed logs and the judgement call and the lack of transparency with the rest of it.

Regardless of whether or not Slotocash decide to put the money back in (which they clearly will unless they have properly lost the plot and/or are about to go tits up) - why hasn't it either a) Happened already or b) There been sufficient explanation of the process that is invoked under these circumstances?

 

[Nifty29]

This latest development/question sort of illustrates my point perfectly.

A proper outfit would have contingency/process in place to deal with this. Appropriate and proper procedure would be followed and there would be no room (or time) for debate.

It's like the sort of emailed logs and the judgement call and the lack of transparency with the rest of it.

Regardless of whether or not Slotocash decide to put the money back in (which they clearly will unless they have properly lost the plot and/or are about to go tits up) - why hasn't it either a) Happened already or b) There been sufficient explanation of the process that is invoked under these circumstances?

I don't understand this obsession with the incorrect log thing. Assuming that they would have to run a query in their database to get the info, they could well have typed the query incorrectly and therefore received the wrong information.

I haven't seen anyone raise an objection to the actual content of the correct logs posted, so what's the issue? If they wanted to pull the wool over everyone's eyes they would have just made them up in the first place or refused to provide them to anyone except via the PAB process. It's also interesting to note that the OP seems unwilling to submit a (free) PAB. I find that very odd indeed.

 

[Slotster!]

I don't understand this obsession with the incorrect log thing. Assuming that they would have to run a query in their database to get the info, they could well have typed the query incorrectly and therefore received the wrong information.

I haven't seen anyone raise an objection to the actual content of the correct logs posted, so what's the issue? If they wanted to pull the wool over everyone's eyes they would have just made them up in the first place or refused to provide them to anyone except via the PAB process. It's also interesting to note that the OP seems unwilling to submit a (free) PAB. I find that very odd indeed.

It's not an obsession, it's important. In conjunction with everything else - it contributes to a whole picture that doesn't look very good.

Firstly, the fact that you can't get that information automatically from RTG casinos is shocking and dubious to say the least, no wonder they have such a bad reputation and are hosts of so many rogues. Like I said up there though - if I was a casino about to deny someone just over $12k with absolute proof - why on earth wouldn't they provide the information they've based their decision on immediately? See, the thing is, they denied the withdrawal - so they must have had access to the information at that point for the story to stack up. They didn't though. Some time later, they sent something different and then something again.

So they either based their decision on the wrong information or intentionally withheld it from the player for a period of time.

Why?

 

[Nifty29]

It's not an obsession, it's important. In conjunction with everything else - it contributes to a whole picture that doesn't look very good.

Firstly, the fact that you can't get that information automatically from RTG casinos is shocking and dubious to say the least, no wonder they have such a bad reputation and are hosts of so many rogues. Like I said up there though - if I was a casino about to deny someone just over $12k with absolute proof - why on earth wouldn't they provide the information they've based their decision on immediately? See, the thing is, they denied the withdrawal - so they must have had access to the information at that point for the story to stack up. They didn't though. Some time later, they sent something different and then something again.

So they either based their decision on the wrong information or intentionally withheld it from the player for a period of time.

Why?

My understanding is that either report shows the same thing....the player broke the rule.

So, the whole discussion is pointless.

People are just using this ridiculously minute detail to make the casino look bad, and the player seem better. Deflecting attention away from the basic facts is a common.practice employed when someone cannot dispute those facts. It's the old "us vs them",with them being the "big bad casino", and the same people back the player almost every time regardless of what they did. People have accused me of the opposite in the past, but have ended up looking pretty silly when actually checking my posting history.

 

[Slotster!]

My understanding is that either report shows the same thing....the player broke the rule.

So, the whole discussion is pointless.

People are just using this ridiculously minute detail to make the casino look bad, and the player seem better. Deflecting attention away from the basic facts is a common.practice employed when someone cannot dispute those facts. It's the old "us vs them",with them being the "big bad casino", and the same people back the player every time regardless of what they did. People have accused me of the opposite in the past, but have ended up looking pretty silly when actually checking my posting history.

Ha ha! Ridiculous. Give me strength!!!

It's not big bad casino versus anyone, and the same people don't back the player every time - and it IS concentrating on the facts as we know them.

Come off it, you can't just keep ignoring salient points and sticking to an agenda.

Just park the fact that the player broke the rules for a minute - does that make all the rest of the behaviour from the casino ok? Should we not talk about it? Should the way rule breaking/dispute resolution is dealt with by a casino not form a valid part of how they are perceived in the future?

Incidentally, from an actual perspective, I could dispute that the player broke the rules because we don't actually know -- and I personally believe the source to be less than trustworthy in this instance (not the rep before anyone gets on their high horse, the manner and method in which the 'proof' has been delivered and the subsequent silence). HOWEVER, I also don't know anything about the OP as it goes, so I don't neccesarily trust them either. See?

That's just opinion though.

Here is an actual, undeniable, proveable fact seeing as that's what you asked for but conveniently skipped over in the previous post:

"they denied the withdrawal - so they must have had access to the information at that point for the story to stack up. They didn't though."

Why?

 

[Nifty29]

Ha ha! Ridiculous. Give me strength!!!

It's not big bad casino versus anyone, and the same people don't back the player every time - and it IS concentrating on the facts as we know them.

Come off it, you can't just keep ignoring salient points and sticking to an agenda.

Just park the fact that the player broke the rules for a minute - does that make all the rest of the behaviour from the casino ok? Should we not talk about it? Should the way rule breaking/dispute resolution is dealt with by a casino not form a valid part of how they are perceived in the future?

Incidentally, from an actual perspective, I could dispute that the player broke the rules because we don't actually know -- and I personally believe the source to be less than trustworthy in this instance (not the rep before anyone gets on their high horse, the manner and method in which the 'proof' has been delivered and the subsequent silence). HOWEVER, I also don't know anything about the OP as it goes, so I don't neccesarily trust them either. See?

That's just opinion though.

Here is an actual, undeniable, proveable fact seeing as that's what you asked for but conveniently skipped over in the previous post:

"they denied the withdrawal - so they must have had access to the information at that point for the story to stack up. They didn't though."

Why?

I didn't realize you had access to the casino backend and have spoken to the cashiers about how they audit playlogs and cashins. You must have, as there's no way you would know WHAT information they based their report on at the time. Perhaps they have auditing processes that are all onscreen and/or only report suspicious play? The rep would most likely have requested the information from others rather than get it themselves, so it is very likely that these people handed her the wrong stats/report, or that one of the fields was incorrect etc. To say the first logs were deliberately falsified, which is tantamount to what you're saying, is bordering on libelous.

The cashier obviously used the playlogs to deny the winnings. Just because something different was sent IN ERROR, doesn't change any of the facts. The OP didn't dispute them, so complaining about sending the wrong info is, as I said, pointless and has no bearing on the issue at all.

I think I addressed that point now. Happy?

 

[Slotster!]

You must have, as there's no way you would know WHAT information they based their report on at the time.

True

Perhaps they have auditing processes that are all onscreen and/or only report suspicious play? The rep would most likely have requested the information from others rather than get it themselves, so it is very likely that these people handed her the wrong stats/report, or that one of the fields was incorrect etc.

Yes. Very likely. I agree. So how do we know the information on which $12,400 was denied is correct?

To say the first logs were deliberately falsified, which is tantamount to what you're saying

I'm not. But they could easily have been based on the timeline/process in which they were supplied.

is bordering on libelous.

It isn't.

The cashier obviously used the playlogs to deny the winnings. Just because something different was sent IN ERROR, doesn't change any of the facts.

If they are to be accepted as facts. Which ones?

This is the crux of the matter.

The OP didn't dispute them, so complaining about sending the wrong info is, as I said, pointless and has no bearing on the issue at all.

The poor OP would have no idea. I wouldn't either - I can't remember what I did five minutes ago. Admittedly, this is clearly an RTG issue overall however as opposed to Slotocash specifically.

Ms Sloto is, by their own admission, the casino owner - we're not talking about some far flung support guy needing to work up the chain.

A player is down 12.4K and Slotocash have had a nightmare.

 

[Tengil]

Have seen that some have mentioned the complaint over at Gambling Grumbles, the same at Askgamblers gives a better idea:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The reply from Slotocash was following:
"Player sets autoplay with $50 a spin on a Very High Variance game from the very first spin, setting the autoplay to stop as soon as a significant win is given. After a big hit, player moves on to lower variance game and sets autoplay with $20 a spin in order to grind out the playthrough.
This clearly demonstrates that player is trying to systematically profit from the casino in a professional sense. Player was employing a strategy to take advantage of promotional money.
Finally, SlotoCash management has become aware of irregular behavior by this player on other RTG casinos. Given the aforementioned facts, SlotoCash reserves the right to void all winnings as per terms 10.8, 10.9, 10.10 and 10.11."


Note that the player says he played with $25 and $20 bets, altough thats irrelevant as they didnt have any max bet restrictions back then.

Also note the bolded terms:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

10.8 If you have not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment only (that is, you have played in a professional sense or in concert with other player(s) as part of a club, group, etc.);
10.9 If you are found cheating or if it is determined by the Company that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems) designed specifically to defeat the Casino;
10.10 If you have been designated as a bonus abuser, playing no or low-risk strategies in order to withdraw promotional money;
10.11 If the Company should become aware that you have played at any other on-line casino under any of the circumstances set out at 10.1 to 10.10 above

All the classical rogue terms and actions. LOL at term 10.9, he used the softwares own autoplay.

 

[ksech]

Hmmm, suffice it to say, the OP hasn't stepped back in since he posted the correct logs sent by Ms Sloto. He knew what he was doing when he had to reset to 6 lines each time he/she changed games, so the 'I didn't know it reset when I returned from the cashier" excuse doesn't fly. The OP changed games at least 4 times and had to reset the line settings at least 4 times. No sympathy from this corner, sorry. They tried to cheat and got caught. And to say the casino sent bogus logs (would you really want to go through and try to retype all that stuff to change a play log?), is there a possiblity that POSSIBLY someone typed in a wrong keystroke and got a wrong player log on the first try (I think I've already made at least a dozen typos just typing this short post)? To err is human...

Now, for a stupid question, please be kind ...
I thought (somewhere in the back of my jumbled brain) that Random Jackpots were universal throughout the RTG casinos. Meaning if one was hit at one casino, say playing Red Sands, then it was reset at all RTG casinos. I didnt realize each casino had their own RJ for each game? (Feeling a bit stupid and embarrassed for not knowing this)

 

[Slotster!]

Those terms and conditions are hilarious.

Why don't they just change 10.9 to "you must not use a computer when playing at Slotocash" - that way noone gets paid! Wahoooooo!!!

As for

They tried to cheat and got caught.

Oooh... Yes, those damn cheats RAISING the bets (accidentally or otherwise) after they've ALREADY hit a Random Jackpot. I.e - Making sure the casino probably get more of it back than if they'd stuck at $6 or whatever,

SCUM OF THE EARTH!!!

Then there's that other scoundrel that LOWERED the bets to ''grind out" the winnings.

DISGRACEFUL!!!

Lock them up and throw away the key...

Hilarious and tragic.

P.S - "To err is human" - It seems lots of people have sympathy for the casino 'mistake', but none for the player 'mistake'. Bit mean

 

[chuchu59]

Hmmm, suffice it to say, the OP hasn't stepped back in since he posted the correct logs sent by Ms Sloto. He knew what he was doing when he had to reset to 6 lines each time he/she changed games, so the 'I didn't know it reset when I returned from the cashier" excuse doesn't fly. The OP changed games at least 4 times and had to reset the line settings at least 4 times. No sympathy from this corner, sorry. They tried to cheat and got caught. And to say the casino sent bogus logs (would you really want to go through and try to retype all that stuff to change a play log?), is there a possiblity that POSSIBLY someone typed in a wrong keystroke and got a wrong player log on the first try (I think I've already made at least a dozen typos just typing this short post)? To err is human...

Now, for a stupid question, please be kind ...
I thought (somewhere in the back of my jumbled brain) that Random Jackpots were universal throughout the RTG casinos. Meaning if one was hit at one casino, say playing Red Sands, then it was reset at all RTG casinos. I didnt realize each casino had their own RJ for each game? (Feeling a bit stupid and embarrassed for not knowing this)

Now that isnt a stupid question by any stretch of the imagination especially since you havent played for some time and unlike some you werent aiming for the RJs. Progessives are universal I believe throughout RTG casinos.

As for the OP, I think facts speak for themselves. The game logs are here for everyone to see. He is definitely monitoring this thread in the hope that there will be sympathy for his plight and hopefully for someone to spot an error on the casino's part. He himself has nothing more to add in his defence and we are just arguing among ourselves based on pure speculation. IMO we might as well let the thread die though the OP could well come back and present his case if he has something concrete to say. Of course Ms sloto can always chime in on the restoration of the confiscated RJ amount though I expect that as a reputable outfit this should already have been done.

Meanwhile, I just logged into Slotocash and about the only slot that the OP played and had a sizable RJ was Medal Tally at $15K. The others ie T-rex, Red Sands and Wok & Roll had at most a $4K RJ. That doesnt mean anything as there could be other possibilities such as the RJ being restored but was just won by another player.

 

[bpb]

They tried to cheat and got caught.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've read in this thread. Slotster summarizes why.

Nobody can possibly argue that the OP's actions were an attempt to "cheat" anybody.

 

[chuchu59]

This is probably the stupidest thing I've read in this thread. Slotster summarizes why.

Nobody can possibly argue that the OP's actions were an attempt to "cheat" anybody.

While 'cheat' is possibly too strong a word I do not concur with your comment either.Kim, please dont be offended.

 

[ksech]

While 'cheat' is possibly too strong a word I do not concur with your comment either.Kim, please dont be offended.

No offense taken. I probably could have chosen a different word, but choose to stick with that one, MY choice as this is the way I feel. The OP has tried to manipulate the members of the forum with false information from the start, I could have come out and called him/her a liar, would that have been a better word? The play logs speak for themselves, 177 spins at $20,the OP played above the max bet, hoped they wouldn't get caught (1,2,3, even 4 spins is a mistake...but 177??? this can really be considered an oversight?). The OP KNEW he/she HAD to reset the bet lines each time they returned to a game (they played 3 different games, reset the bet lines each game and returned to play Red Sands again), so to blame the cashier is plain idiocy. But go ahead and let the casino, the rep, the cashier and every other casino employee take the responsibility for the player NOT abiding by the same rules that every other HONEST player has to abide by. And the next time one of you HONEST players who has seen fit to crucify this casino outfit has a problem, I sincerely hope that Ms Sloto is forgiving enough to help you out.

It's true, I don't play, but the day may come when I will return to playing online (when my government gets their heads out of their a$$e$). SlotoCash was okay by me when they were Rival, and they are one of the few who are on my short list of those I would try again on my return. And believe me, the list is really, really short. But as I stated, that's just MY opinion. No one has to agree with me.

Thanks chuchu for clarifying about the Random and the progressives!

 

[Nifty29]

This is probably the stupidest thing I've read in this thread. Slotster summarizes why.

Nobody can possibly argue that the OP's actions were an attempt to "cheat" anybody.

Was the really necessary?

You could have just said you didn't agree without calling another member's opinion "stupid".

You own ksech an apology IMO.

 

[bpb]

Was the really necessary?

You could have just said you didn't agree without calling another member's opinion "stupid".

You own ksech an apology IMO.

Yes, that was necessary. Calling someone a cheater is tantamount to calling them a thief ... scumbag ... scammer ... any of these terms. There's no evidence anywhere in this thread that the OP did anything other than make an honest mistake, due to their own carelessness surrounding assumptions about how the software operates (ie ... bet sizes/line amounts remain unchanged after a visit to the cashier page). There's certainly no evidence that the OP did anything deserving the label "cheater".

Calling the OP a cheater was a "stupid" comment. I could have opted for other descriptions. I think the one I used was very generous.

 

[funeral979]

Hmmm, suffice it to say, the OP hasn't stepped back in since he posted the correct logs sent by Ms Sloto. He knew what he was doing when he had to reset to 6 lines each time he/she changed games, so the 'I didn't know it reset when I returned from the cashier" excuse doesn't fly. The OP changed games at least 4 times and had to reset the line settings at least 4 times. No sympathy from this corner, sorry. They tried to cheat and got caught. And to say the casino sent bogus logs (would you really want to go through and try to retype all that stuff to change a play log?), is there a possiblity that POSSIBLY someone typed in a wrong keystroke and got a wrong player log on the first try (I think I've already made at least a dozen typos just typing this short post)? To err is human...

Now, for a stupid question, please be kind ...
I thought (somewhere in the back of my jumbled brain) that Random Jackpots were universal throughout the RTG casinos. Meaning if one was hit at one casino, say playing Red Sands, then it was reset at all RTG casinos. I didnt realize each casino had their own RJ for each game? (Feeling a bit stupid and embarrassed for not knowing this)

I haven't played RTG in awhile, but unless something has changed....random jackpots are not pooled at all RTG casinos. Only the progressives are (like Jackpot Pinatas). So if you hit the Red Sands random at casino X, it only resets there....not affecting Red Sands at any other casino.

Moving forward:

I would say at this point.....even if the random jackpot is restored now, its probably too late. The winnings were confiscated, what, a week ago? So we can probably assume that they didn't have any intentions of putting the money back. And if they did so from this point forward, it would only be because this thread put pressure on them....which I think would be pretty telling about how they choose to run their business.

 

[ksech]

No need to fret Nifty, it's their right to disagree with me. And it's their right to side with the OP. I cannot and will not force anyone to reread what the OP has ALREADY admitted to in his/her various posts, not everyone will perceive/interprete how something is written the same way. If accusing the cashier of resetting the number of bet lines in the game so the player voids the bonus by overstepping the max bet rule by a mere 177 spins is just a little boo boo, then by all means pay the player! Better yet, whenever anyone breaks any rules, the casinos should just forget about ANY of the T&Cs and just pay the players cause we ALL know the casinos are all out to rob everyone! You can't trust any of the casinos, they're all crooks and are all out to try to steal players' winnings by any means!

So players beware! If you play with a bonus the casino will find some way to screw you over. If you don't use a bonus they will still find some way to screw you over! So, why are so many of you still playing at these crooked places? So, you have something to bitch about???

I think I need somethin' to drink now...
Hey Nifty...you and seventh777 got any of that thar weed left??? Oops, wrong thread...

 

[Nifty29]

I haven't played RTG in awhile, but unless something has changed....random jackpots are not pooled at all RTG casinos. Only the progressives are (like Jackpot Pinatas). So if you hit the Red Sands random at casino X, it only resets there....not affecting Red Sands at any other casino.

Moving forward:

I would say at this point.....even if the random jackpot is restored now, its probably too late. The winnings were confiscated, what, a week ago? So we can probably assume that they didn't have any intentions of putting the money back. And if they did so from this point forward, it would only be because this thread put pressure on them....which I think would be pretty telling about how they choose to run their business.

I have to agree.

Failure to replace the RJ would be a huge red flag. If it has already been won again, the player who last hit it should be given the extra funds.

I also agree that if it is only done now as a result of pressure, then it does say something about what kind of operators they are.

As I said earlier, I've got my own issues with Slotocash (which they refused to even consider rectifying), and I don't play there as a result. I'm not defending them because I think they're a great casino.....only their right to enforce their rules.

 

[Slotster!]

which I think would be pretty telling about how they choose to run their business.

We have a winner!

This is pretty much what I said a million pages back... Any proper business would have a process already in place.

Incidentally, I've been meaning to mention this (I'm sure I talked about it on here before).

After a really nice run - I once accidentally cranked my bet up to £100 per spin

It was on something about a Road Trip at one of the Wagerworks sites.

Now I rarely use Autospin, so 'not much harm done' I hear you say? Erm... wasn't one accidental spin, or two. Three? Nope. Four? Five? Come on Slotster! - Noone is that stupid!?? It was about ten in the end. Maybe more. I just GENUINELY did not notice the difference because I had a half decent balance and was getting low pay returns so it wasn't really jumping about that much. I ended up somewhere around what I started with.

AND I WAS HITTING THE SPIN BUTTON EVERYTIME.

If I'd have hit the Autoplay I'd either be a millionaire or crying in my beer still.

Anyhow - my point being - when you've got a half decent balance, you could hit autospin legitimately and not notice your bet size has changed due to small returns etc etc. Certainly as low as $50 off a five figure balance. ESPECIALLY if you wander off for a bit. Yeah, it's stupid. But it's possible - I've done it.

 

[LaHutti]

Now op is a CHEATER, for losing more back to the casino, than he would have by continuing to bet $6 a spin ?
This thread is entertaining beyond belief, is all I can say

 

[star12war]

Hi everyone

I am not writing lately because you already have all the info. Not much I can add to the conversation.

People asked why I didn't PAB, well CM told me that if I broke the T&C nothing can be done so there is not much point in filling PAB.

I obviously disagree with the casino decision, anyway I hope at least one of you guys will get to win the RJ for me

 

[funeral979]

Hi everyone

I am not writing lately because you already have all the info. Not much I can add to the conversation.

People asked why I didn't PAB, well CM told me that if I broke the T&C nothing can be done so there is not much point in filling PAB.

I obviously disagree with the casino decision, anyway I hope at least one of you guys will get to win the RJ for me

Can you tell us how much was the random jackpot for when it went off?

Do you know if they put that money back in?

 

[Slotster!]

Hi everyone

I am not writing lately because you already have all the info. Not much I can add to the conversation.

People asked why I didn't PAB, well CM told me that if I broke the T&C nothing can be done so there is not much point in filling PAB.

I obviously disagree with the casino decision, anyway I hope at least one of you guys will get to win the RJ for me

Feel for you mate.

I hope they at least gave you your deposit back? I'm guessing probably not.

The Casinomeister Awards just got announced. Go check out some of the stellar casinos that will treat you properly like a customer.

All that karma you've got built up - you'll take them to the cleaners!

See you on the 'Winner Screenshots' thread!

 

[ksech]

Now op is a CHEATER, for losing more back to the casino, than he would have by continuing to bet $6 a spin ?
This thread is entertaining beyond belief, is all I can say

Ya know what? Never mind...none of you are worth it...

 

[Nifty29]

Now op is a CHEATER, for losing more back to the casino, than he would have by continuing to bet $6 a spin ?
This thread is entertaining beyond belief, is all I can say

Actually, playing bigger bets is the best strategy with a bonus.

It has not been established that the OP made a genuine error, unless you have direct telepathic access to the OPs brain.

I agree about the entertainment part though. It's always interesting to watch people ignore facts and dodge questions.

Ksech said she probably could've chosen a different word, but WTG for once again ignoring facts in the name of furthering your agenda.

@ksech... I'll send u some 'special' pics to take ur mind off things....

 

[KasinoKing]

Jeeeeze! Where's that FORK Bryan???

Regardless of whether or not Slotocash decide to put the money back in (which they clearly will unless they have properly lost the plot and/or are about to go tits up) - why hasn't it either a) Happened already or b) There been sufficient explanation of the process that is invoked under these circumstances?

I understand you might come to the conference in London next week?
Ms Sloto is going to be there, so if I can, I will introduce you and you can ask her all the questions yourself!
(If she doesn't answer here first).

KK

 

[chuchu59]

KK, When you meet ms sloto or for that matter any rep from the accredited rtgs can you start a discussion with them on whether it is possible to convince rtg to place in its software something that will disallow excluded games and limit bet sizes whilst a bonus is active. Most, if not all, of the complaints stem from these 2 issues and 3Dice tackles the former really well whereas MG , to some extent, copes with the latter.

 

[Slotster!]

Jeeeeze! Where's that FORK Bryan???


I understand you might come to the conference in London next week?
Ms Sloto is going to be there, so if I can, I will introduce you and you can ask her all the questions yourself!
(If she doesn't answer here first).

KK

Hi Mate - I think sadly not next week. I've been invited to loads of ace stuff as well, so properly gutted this time round. My world is almost entirely away from London these days which, whilst a good thing mainly, is a shame when this sort of thing crops up.

However lovely I'm sure Ms Sloto is in person, I'm not sure we're neccesarily aligned on 'what makes a good (or even adequate) casino' to hit it off!

She could at least have the courtesy to reply here though...

Were it MY 12.4K however. I would be there with bells on

 

[vinylweatherman]

Have seen that some have mentioned the complaint over at Gambling Grumbles, the same at Askgamblers gives a better idea:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The reply from Slotocash was following:
"Player sets autoplay with $50 a spin on a Very High Variance game from the very first spin, setting the autoplay to stop as soon as a significant win is given. After a big hit, player moves on to lower variance game and sets autoplay with $20 a spin in order to grind out the playthrough.
This clearly demonstrates that player is trying to systematically profit from the casino in a professional sense. Player was employing a strategy to take advantage of promotional money.
Finally, SlotoCash management has become aware of irregular behavior by this player on other RTG casinos. Given the aforementioned facts, SlotoCash reserves the right to void all winnings as per terms 10.8, 10.9, 10.10 and 10.11."


Note that the player says he played with $25 and $20 bets, altough thats irrelevant as they didnt have any max bet restrictions back then.

Also note the bolded terms:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

10.8 If you have not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment only (that is, you have played in a professional sense or in concert with other player(s) as part of a club, group, etc.);
10.9 If you are found cheating or if it is determined by the Company that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems) designed specifically to defeat the Casino;
10.10 If you have been designated as a bonus abuser, playing no or low-risk strategies in order to withdraw promotional money;
10.11 If the Company should become aware that you have played at any other on-line casino under any of the circumstances set out at 10.1 to 10.10 above

All the classical rogue terms and actions. LOL at term 10.9, he used the softwares own autoplay.

All this "clearly demonstrates" is that the player broke no rules, and their winnings are being voided by a "spirit of the bonus" dressed up in "circumstances 10.1 to 10.10"

Knowing the best way to play does not make one a "professional". They are basing this merely on the style of play, not actual evidence that this player has made himself into a professiona gambler working with a "professional gambling company".

The internet is full of information on the best way to play, so ANY player, even a newbie, can easily find tips written by others on how to play.

What happened at "other RTG casinos" is irrelevant unless it was FRAUD. This is the player's personal data, and should NOT be shared around among independent parties. This would be illegal in this country. The exception to this rule is that information can ONLY be shared where necessary to combat crime. Information about playing style that is NOT indicative of criminal activity does NOT come under this exception, so should not be shared.

Casinos get away with this because of where they are located, which in the case of RTG tends to be Costa Rica.

In THIS case, the player broke the rules, but did NOT break the "spirit of the bonus", as the INTENT of this rule, it's "spirit", was to prevent the kind of play done by the $50 to $20 strategy player, and give a basis other than "spirit of the bonus" with which to void winnings in similar cases.

It seems to be that the process behind all of this at many casinos is to first decide whether they want to pay a particular payout after an audit has flagged it as "unusual", and then examine the terms to find a way to justify non payment, and if nothing can be found, look for a "spirit of the bonus" argument that they can back up with the more vague provisions of the terms, which in this case is "section 10".

THIS approach is what gives the whole industry a bad name, and leads to the impression that winners DO have something to worry about, but losers can lose as much as they want, and the operators will not be complaining.

If you play to win, you are a "professional", even if it is your first time, because the average player is "not supposed to win", either through not understanding the games, or though lacking the discipline needed to hang on to their gains.

Operators should accept what B & M casinos do, that SOME players can win HUGE amounts, and keep on doing so for quite a while. These are great adverts for the industry, and it brings in MANY players who dream of being one of these few, but who end up losing in the end.


A true advert for the industry should be:-

Play with us - live the dream.

... but if the dream becomes a reality, you are toast.

 

[Nifty29]

All this "clearly demonstrates" is that the player broke no rules, and their winnings are being voided by a "spirit of the bonus" dressed up in "circumstances 10.1 to 10.10"

Knowing the best way to play does not make one a "professional". They are basing this merely on the style of play, not actual evidence that this player has made himself into a professiona gambler working with a "professional gambling company".

The internet is full of information on the best way to play, so ANY player, even a newbie, can easily find tips written by others on how to play.

What happened at "other RTG casinos" is irrelevant unless it was FRAUD. This is the player's personal data, and should NOT be shared around among independent parties. This would be illegal in this country. The exception to this rule is that information can ONLY be shared where necessary to combat crime. Information about playing style that is NOT indicative of criminal activity does NOT come under this exception, so should not be shared.

Casinos get away with this because of where they are located, which in the case of RTG tends to be Costa Rica.

In THIS case, the player broke the rules, but did NOT break the "spirit of the bonus", as the INTENT of this rule, it's "spirit", was to prevent the kind of play done by the $50 to $20 strategy player, and give a basis other than "spirit of the bonus" with which to void winnings in similar cases.

It seems to be that the process behind all of this at many casinos is to first decide whether they want to pay a particular payout after an audit has flagged it as "unusual", and then examine the terms to find a way to justify non payment, and if nothing can be found, look for a "spirit of the bonus" argument that they can back up with the more vague provisions of the terms, which in this case is "section 10".

THIS approach is what gives the whole industry a bad name, and leads to the impression that winners DO have something to worry about, but losers can lose as much as they want, and the operators will not be complaining.

If you play to win, you are a "professional", even if it is your first time, because the average player is "not supposed to win", either through not understanding the games, or though lacking the discipline needed to hang on to their gains.

Operators should accept what B & M casinos do, that SOME players can win HUGE amounts, and keep on doing so for quite a while. These are great adverts for the industry, and it brings in MANY players who dream of being one of these few, but who end up losing in the end.


A true advert for the industry should be:-

Play with us - live the dream.

... but if the dream becomes a reality, you are toast.

Vinyl, you are generalising very widely with that last statement. Legitimate casinos pay legitimate winnings, and there are plenty of legitimate operators around. The players that end up being "toasted" either played at a rogue casino, or violated bonus terms at a legitimate casino. The average joe who just deposits and plays for enjoyment and maybe to win a few bucks has nothing to fear from legitimate operators....in 12 years I have not once had winnings confiscated, and I know there are many in the same boat.

Re: the above situation.

What we really need is the play logs and some input about the exact reason why the winnings were denied. One of the terms states that they can deny your winnings if terms 10.1- 10.11 were broken at another RTG casino, those terms being:

10.1 If there is evidence to suggest that you have more than one active account for the Casino;

10.2 If the name on your Casino account does not match the name on the credit card(s) used to make purchases on your Casino account;

10.3 If you participate in a Casino promotion and cash-in before fulfilling the requirements of that particular promotion;

10.4 If you provide incorrect or misleading registration, account or identification information;

10.5 If you are not of legal age;

10.6 If you reside in a jurisdiction where participation in the Game is prohibited by law;

10.7 If you have allowed or permitted (intentionally or unintentionally) someone else to play on your Casino account;

10.8 If you have not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment only (that is, you have played in a professional sense or in concert with other player(s) as part of a club, group, etc.);

10.9 If you are found cheating or if it is determined by the Company that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems) designed specifically to defeat the Casino;

10.10 If you have been designated as a bonus abuser, playing no or low-risk strategies in order to withdraw promotional money;

10.11 If the Company should become aware that you have played at any other on-line casino under any of the circumstances set out at 10.1 to 10.10 above

So if you did anything from the list above at another RTG casino, you lose the lot.

Yes, it's a bad term and it is unusual (in the sense that it usually only relates to chargebacks and player fraud), but the fact is it is there and everyone who plays agrees to it.

If one doesn't agree with terms like this, then do not play at that casino. One cannot change one's mind after the fact.

We need to know what evidence Sloto used to deny the winnings....if it was because they breached these terms at another RTG then they are SOL....if it's a "spirit of the bonus" issue, then the player should be paid.

 

[Realitybitez]

I am a little surprised this thread is still going... Honestly this is what I think happened. ( dozen burbons later)

1) The player made a mistake: Easy to do and understandable
2) The player compounded that mistake by thinking 'well hey! I didnt mean to do it on purpose, it was an accident' therefore I am not in the wrong, its the software/the cashier/ the whatever can get me out of this mistake i made/ I knew how it worked but i effed up but hopefully no one else will figure that out

Sorry, Im getting a little abit sarky here probably because I really believed the player made a mistake which I 'still' think he did but he just didnt have the balls to admit it so excuses galoore which I totally believed because its something that I would accidently do easily ... but comes out in the wash - he lied which so peed me off, cause I really believed him but then the nicer side of myself goes well maybe he didnt lie, maybe he really believed what he said till the evidence was laid out in front of him

Mabye this, maybe that.. well I had it worked out but blimmin heck those dozen burbons have clouded my reasoning, will get back to this hehe

 

[vinylweatherman]

Vinyl, you are generalising very widely with that last statement. Legitimate casinos pay legitimate winnings, and there are plenty of legitimate operators around. The players that end up being "toasted" either played at a rogue casino, or violated bonus terms at a legitimate casino. The average joe who just deposits and plays for enjoyment and maybe to win a few bucks has nothing to fear from legitimate operators....in 12 years I have not once had winnings confiscated, and I know there are many in the same boat.

Re: the above situation.

What we really need is the play logs and some input about the exact reason why the winnings were denied. One of the terms states that they can deny your winnings if terms 10.1- 10.11 were broken at another RTG casino, those terms being:



So if you did anything from the list above at another RTG casino, you lose the lot.

Yes, it's a bad term and it is unusual (in the sense that it usually only relates to chargebacks and player fraud), but the fact is it is there and everyone who plays agrees to it.

If one doesn't agree with terms like this, then do not play at that casino. One cannot change one's mind after the fact.

We need to know what evidence Sloto used to deny the winnings....if it was because they breached these terms at another RTG then they are SOL....if it's a "spirit of the bonus" issue, then the player should be paid.

It's 10.8 I have a particular issue with. They are using this one specifically in their reply at Gambling Grumbles, but are inferring this from play records.

I could go to Ms Sloto's house and change a tap washer, and do it right. Does that make me a professional plumber? Setting up the parameters on Auto play is even simpler than changing a tap washer, and discussions abound on the internet on how best to do this. The player could simply have read the guide over at beatingbonuses, or even the wizardofodds, and applied them by rote in the faith that these sites know what they are talking about.

He got lucky early on enough not to run out of money, a bit like a Martingale player. This success may well have come at a price, and many players go broke trying such systems. It is only when playing in concert with others, and sharing funds, that this style of play is viable in the long term. For this to stick, there has to be proof of playing in concert with others, not just that he demonstrated an abilty to read and digest information found on the internet.

 

[Slotster!]

blimmin heck those dozen burbons have clouded my reasoning, will get back to this hehe

Keep drinking. Once you're far enough in the only solution is to drink yourself out the other side

I must be honest, I'm a little bit surprised that people call for a thread to be locked, or 'put a fork in it' - I think it's a bit rude when people are having a discussion.

You can pick and choose which threads you enjoy/participate in - I wouldn't be so presumptious that because it's my opinion a subject is closed - I insist other people also stop talking about it?

Unless of course I was the casino in question and I wanted it to quietly slip down the board and into the ethyr

Most significant is the lack of clarity or response from Lady Sloto of Cashville.

 

[Nifty29]

It's 10.8 I have a particular issue with. They are using this one specifically in their reply at Gambling Grumbles, but are inferring this from play records.

I could go to Ms Sloto's house and change a tap washer, and do it right. Does that make me a professional plumber? Setting up the parameters on Auto play is even simpler than changing a tap washer, and discussions abound on the internet on how best to do this. The player could simply have read the guide over at beatingbonuses, or even the wizardofodds, and applied them by rote in the faith that these sites know what they are talking about.

He got lucky early on enough not to run out of money, a bit like a Martingale player. This success may well have come at a price, and many players go broke trying such systems. It is only when playing in concert with others, and sharing funds, that this style of play is viable in the long term. For this to stick, there has to be proof of playing in concert with others, not just that he demonstrated an abilty to read and digest information found on the internet.

Perhaps we have another syndicate issue like the Pennsylvania one?

Again, we need more information before we can call it either way.

 

[Realitybitez]

Totally off Topic

and ok, being drunken as hell where does one post topics that have nothing to do with the casino world? Im in a chat able mood and this is the only forum I do these days, must be something to do with my habit hehe

 

[DiamondGeezer]

The Attic - scroll down it's near the bottom of the subject headers.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

My take is that if you do 177 spins at $20 when the max bet is $6.50 then you can't expect to be paid if the max bet amount was clearly indicated. An example of clear indication is in the cashier section where you redeem the bonus code. RTG are generally very good at listing what is or isn't allowed in this section.

But if the max bet is hidden halfway down in the general terms you have to ask yourself why the casino would choose to put it there where it will be a lot less visible. Put another way, if this was an insurance case and it was a UK court of law then it would almost certainly result in a substantial payout since the term was not clearly indicated enough to the player at the point of acceptance.

If the player was aware of the max bet but forgot then there is not much you can do and the casino are entiltled to keep the money.