slotocash voided 12,400 win

[SlotsLover]

What about that other sloto case

In this case, the player broke the rules. Yes, sloto could have acted differently, but the rule was broken.

I'm just as concerned about the case where sloto said the "advantage" player played $50 and then "grinded out" at $20 per spin on a $400 deposit and 400% bonus and therefore denied the winnings. I found that case to be even more incredible. Even a $50 spin is only 3% of the bonus anyway, so I didn't think sloto had a leg to stand on, yet they seem to have stuck by that ruling. Does anyone know anything about how that worked out? I think that player should be paid if he played $1 per spin. The rules are the rules, as sloto says in denying the 12k payment above. What rule did the player in this example break?

 

[LaHutti]

In this case, the player broke the rules. Yes, sloto could have acted differently, but the rule was broken.

I'm just as concerned about the case where sloto said the "advantage" player played $50 and then "grinded out" at $20 per spin on a $400 deposit and 400% bonus and therefore denied the winnings. I found that case to be even more incredible. Even a $50 spin is only 3% of the bonus anyway, so I didn't think sloto had a leg to stand on, yet they seem to have stuck by that ruling. Does anyone know anything about how that worked out? I think that player should be paid if he played $1 per spin. The rules are the rules, as sloto says in denying the 12k payment above. What rule did the player in this example break?

He won a pretty good amount ?

 

[chuchu59]

He won a pretty good amount ?

I think that about sums it up. Rogue casinos wont care a damn a nd will void your winnings without the blink of an eye whereas casinos that are considered to be fine will hide behind some ridiculous rule and deny winnings. Discretion only comes into play when operators believe paying out would be more advantageous than the negative publicity they get. Up till now, 32 RED is possibly the only casino who uses discretion wisely and out of their own accord. Others will do so only under immense pressure.

 

[SlotsLover]

let's apply the pressure

Well, in this case, I think sloto has over the years been generally honorable, and Ms Sloto seems like a nice host, so let's start putting on the pressure because the casino of the "spirit of the bonus" dq of the guy with the $400 deposit is absurd, and we need answers from Ms. Sloto on this one, much more than "it's an obvious advantage play." Not only is that term absurd, but betting 3% of bonus doesn't seem to even come close, even if "advantage play" is a reasonable reason (which it never is: they make the rules, players play under them).

 

[LaHutti]

Well I must admit you do seem to be applying your convictions selectively, but thats your perogative.

I'll assume that your choice not to address most of my arguments and examples means that you agree with me.

Out of interest, what are your favorite casinos? Say, top ten? I dont think ive seen you indicate at any time. I'm happy to share mine also:

32red
Inetbet
Highnoon
Manhattan slots
3dice
Buzzluck
Nordicbet
Nedplay

I don't "apply" my convictions....they come from experience.
Show me ONE thread with a case just close to this, from 32Red, and I'll show you 4 from Sloto, and I think it's very unfair to 32Red, to even begin to compare the two.
Unless you somewhere in this thread said, that SLOTO is wrong, confiscating 12K, based on this players mistake, and I somehow missed your post, I'm afraid you're jumping to conclusions, saying that I agree with you

 

[vinylweatherman]

Vinyl, 177 spins, autoplay or not, is not a minor mistake.

He knew from previous games in this session that the lines reset, do it was either a deliberate attempt to subvert the rules or a blatant act of carelessness. Either way, if its good enough for me and 99% of others to check their bets, especially in a situation where they KNEW there was a max bet, then its good enough for them. As a fellow player I would be offended if this guy was allowed to keep his winnings, as it means there are different rules for different players...and that is not fair.

Also, I didn't say HE was a fart in the breeze. I was referring to these types of players in general.

Where does it end vinyl? I go and set my autoplay on 500 spins, forgetting to change the lines, so it starts spinning at over the max bet, I walk away the phone rings, someone knocks at the door, I have to go potty etc and get distracted. I come back to finf I've just done 500 spins over the max bet. Now, you're saying that's fine because starting autoplay and the 500 spins were essentially one action so whether it was 3 or 500 spins means nothing? Come on. It's just silly, and it means there may as well not be a rule in the first place.It would also mean that any player could deliberately throw in a bunch of big spins on autoplay and claim 'oh it was a mistake sorry....but that last guy did 177 spins over and I only did 79 do you have to pay me". The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Anyhoo, he ain't getting paid and its the right decision. Nothing we say is going to change that, and those who won't play there as a result are probably the same kind of player, so the casino won't lose any sleep. The OP was disingenuous and misleading from the getgo and his story changed every 5 minutes. If he had genuinely made a genuine mistake he would have contacted the casino like just about everyone else would. The fact that he didn't is one red flag amongst many.

It was still one minor mistake. The 177 spins was the consequence, not the mistake itself. Sloto also made a minor mistake, they sent the wrong log files, the consequence of this mistake was to undermine their stand over this ruling.

The player paid for this mistake by losing 12K, the casino got to say "sorry", but kept the 12K. It is not a level playing field when it comes to the suffering caused by one's own mistakes.

Drivers often make minor mistakes, but occasionally the consequences can be major. It is the mistake that is punished, not the consequences. It is the same for other things, courts look at the mistake made, and do not normally punish according to the consequences. They can also take mitigating circumstances into account.

You may well not make THIS particular mistake, but you could one day make another that you hadn't guarded against, and be trying to argue that YOU should be paid.

Whether or not someone is an "advantage player" should not be a factor when deciding how to deal with their mistake.

 

[Nifty29]

I don't "apply" my convictions....they come from experience.
Show me ONE thread with a case just close to this, from 32Red, and I'll show you 4 from Sloto, and I think it's very unfair to 32Red, to even begin to compare the two.
Unless you somewhere in this thread said, that SLOTO is wrong, confiscating 12K, based on this players mistake, and I somehow missed your post, I'm afraid you're jumping to conclusions, saying that I agree with you

The point I was making is that 32Red has the max bet rule...they deal with it differently, but they have it. You still think they're OK though. I also think that if this happened at 32Red there would be no argument about it being a "mistake"....it would be a breach of the rules and the penalty would be applied. The only difference is the penalty, but this penalty is clearly stated in the rules at both casinos. You may not like the rule, but you agree to it when you play, so there's no point crying about it afterwards.

What I mean by addressing my arguments mean actually addressing them....not just saying "Yeah well sloto was wrong and they confiscated 12K". You've hardly said anything about the reasons I have for my line of thinking, so I assumed you must agree with them in principle at least.

So which casinos do you play? If you don't want to answer its OK...not sure why you wouldn't....but it's OK.

It was still one minor mistake. The 177 spins was the consequence, not the mistake itself. Sloto also made a minor mistake, they sent the wrong log files, the consequence of this mistake was to undermine their stand over this ruling.

The player paid for this mistake by losing 12K, the casino got to say "sorry", but kept the 12K. It is not a level playing field when it comes to the suffering caused by one's own mistakes.

Drivers often make minor mistakes, but occasionally the consequences can be major. It is the mistake that is punished, not the consequences. It is the same for other things, courts look at the mistake made, and do not normally punish according to the consequences. They can also take mitigating circumstances into account.

You may well not make THIS particular mistake, but you could one day make another that you hadn't guarded against, and be trying to argue that YOU should be paid.

Whether or not someone is an "advantage player" should not be a factor when deciding how to deal with their mistake.

Are you seriously comparing Sloto posting the wrong log file to a player making 177 bets over the max allowed? Really? I'm surprised at you Vinyl. The terms and conditions say nothing about posting log files and the resulting penalties, but they do say something about making bets over $6.50 and the resulting penalties. Comparing the two is like comparing killing a fly with fly spray and running over a pedestrian. It's really drawing a very long bow.

I won't argue with your legal prowess, but courts punish speeding drivers according to speed, not whether they hit anyone. If you go to court for 60mph over, they don't say "oh well that's fine you didn't hit anyone". You pay a heavy fine according to the speed...and that's what the player is paying here. Whilst we're on the legal technicalities, the OP actually broke the term 177 times. Each spin was a breach of the rule, regardless of whether it was automated or not. If you hacked into someone's account, and found a way to siphon money every week into your account via autopayment, you will be charged for every time the money came out...not just the first time when you logged in and setup the fraudulent autopay. Relieving the OP of any responsibility because he used autoplay is ridiculous.

Anyway, as I said, the OP has been refused payment so it's all academic.

I'm more concerned about the other case with the $50 bets. We don't seem to have been shown any factual information and the casino has been coy as well. If it's a "spirit of the bonus" issue then yeah Sloto need to pay up and change their terms going forward. If it turns out it was a max bet or some other specific term violation, then they should be treated the same as the OP.

 

[Slotster!]

Anyhoo, he ain't getting paid and its the right decision. Nothing we say is going to change that, and those who won't play there as a result are probably the same kind of player, so the casino won't lose any sleep.

You are 100% wrong. The people who won't play there are people like me who couldn't care less about bonuses/advantage play/WR blah blah blah - and just want a straight up trustworthy casino who'll pay them money back as honestly and transparently as they'll take it. Or, if things go wrong for whatever reason - there'll be a transparent, amicable and trustworthy route for resolution.

Like I said somewhere else, regardless of blame and semantics and terms and conditions - I wouldn't touch Slotocash with KasinoKings bankroll.

Delays, wrong logs emailed, anonymous interaction, text file amendments, complete confiscation of winnings etc etc etc.

There are thousands of people like me who read Casinomeister and, simply put, it just aint worth it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The point I was making is that 32Red has the max bet rule...they deal with it differently, but they have it. You still think they're OK though. I also think that if this happened at 32Red there would be no argument about it being a "mistake"....it would be a breach of the rules and the penalty would be applied. The only difference is the penalty, but this penalty is clearly stated in the rules at both casinos. You may not like the rule, but you agree to it when you play, so there's no point crying about it afterwards.

What I mean by addressing my arguments mean actually addressing them....not just saying "Yeah well sloto was wrong and they confiscated 12K". You've hardly said anything about the reasons I have for my line of thinking, so I assumed you must agree with them in principle at least.

So which casinos do you play? If you don't want to answer its OK...not sure why you wouldn't....but it's OK.





Are you seriously comparing Sloto posting the wrong log file to a player making 177 bets over the max allowed? Really? I'm surprised at you Vinyl. The terms and conditions say nothing about posting log files and the resulting penalties, but they do say something about making bets over $6.50 and the resulting penalties. Comparing the two is like comparing killing a fly with fly spray and running over a pedestrian. It's really drawing a very long bow.

I won't argue with your legal prowess, but courts punish speeding drivers according to speed, not whether they hit anyone. If you go to court for 60mph over, they don't say "oh well that's fine you didn't hit anyone". You pay a heavy fine according to the speed...and that's what the player is paying here. Whilst we're on the legal technicalities, the OP actually broke the term 177 times. Each spin was a breach of the rule, regardless of whether it was automated or not. If you hacked into someone's account, and found a way to siphon money every week into your account via autopayment, you will be charged for every time the money came out...not just the first time when you logged in and setup the fraudulent autopay. Relieving the OP of any responsibility because he used autoplay is ridiculous.

Anyway, as I said, the OP has been refused payment so it's all academic.

I'm more concerned about the other case with the $50 bets. We don't seem to have been shown any factual information and the casino has been coy as well. If it's a "spirit of the bonus" issue then yeah Sloto need to pay up and change their terms going forward. If it turns out it was a max bet or some other specific term violation, then they should be treated the same as the OP.

You persist in confusing consequences with the actual severity of the mistake made. The mistake was a single click of the mouse without checking. Had this been a click on "spin", the consequence would have been ONE spin at $20. Unfortunately, it was a click on "start", and the other 176 spins were a result of the client continuing to bet, not of the PLAYER making a further 176 mistakes. The actual mistake made was the SAME in both the cases discussed. The previous case could be considered WORSE, as that player REPEATED the same mistake more than once. He failed to check repeatedly when returning to the game from the cashier.

 

[Slotster!]

The previous case could be considered WORSE, as that player REPEATED the same mistake more than once. He failed to check repeatedly when returning to the game from the cashier.

But wasn't worth 12.5K

 

[vinylweatherman]

But wasn't worth 12.5K

Again, CONSEQUENCES, not the mistake itself. Besides, the 12.5K was NOT a consequence of the mistake, as it had been won prior to the run of large bets. Even if paid, the player would have been worse off through betting so big rather than lessening the exposure of his 12K to variance by continuing to bet at $6.

The whole affair is created by operators who use offers like "400%, deposit $500 and play with $2500" for NEW players. If they don't want advantage players, they have a strange way of going about it. Such offers should instead be confined to long term loyal players that have earned it through their level of play.

 

[Nifty29]

You persist in confusing consequences with the actual severity of the mistake made. The mistake was a single click of the mouse without checking. Had this been a click on "spin", the consequence would have been ONE spin at $20. Unfortunately, it was a click on "start", and the other 176 spins were a result of the client continuing to bet, not of the PLAYER making a further 176 mistakes. The actual mistake made was the SAME in both the cases discussed. The previous case could be considered WORSE, as that player REPEATED the same mistake more than once. He failed to check repeatedly when returning to the game from the cashier.

If I started my car in the high street, put it in drive, and jumped out....and the car run over three people, how many counts of murder/manslaughter would i be charged with? Only one surely, as the three deaths were only consequences of the one action right? I mean, I only started the car once right?

You see, when he clicked start he agreed to the software placing continual bets of the same value until he stopped it. You cannot say he was responsible for only the first bet and not the other 176. It's ludicrous. I'm surprised with all your legal experience that you don't know that.

Betting 6 lines @$1 is higher variance than 20 lines @$1. The correct method is to make high bets to reduce your bankrolls exposure to the house edge.

 

[vinylweatherman]

If I started my car in the high street, put it in drive, and jumped out....and the car run over three people, how many counts of murder/manslaughter would i be charged with? Only one surely, as the three deaths were only consequences of the one action right? I mean, I only started the car once right?

You see, when he clicked start he agreed to the software placing continual bets of the same value until he stopped it. You cannot say he was responsible for only the first bet and not the other 176. It's ludicrous. I'm surprised with all your legal experience that you don't know that.

Here in the UK you would quite possibly get away with a driving ban and a short sentence because the mistake would be punished, even if the charge was manslaughter. This does lead to considerable public outcry when punishments for killing someone because of bad driving does not end up being anything close to punishments for killing someone in other circumstances.

It's not the same in other countries.

The bankers were also not punished for the consequences of their collective major screw up, but merely for what they did. Most got off with a "sorry", even though they destroyed the lives of a whole generation, and lead to the near collapse of a number of countries. They were not even required to refund the money they made from their mistakes, and some did so only because of public pressure.

It seems the rich and powerful can get away with stuff that the ordinary person would be severely punished for. This REALLY pisses off the ordinary people. Casino operators may not be part of the elite, but they ARE higher up in the pecking order than the players, and we DO see many getting off by simply saying sorry, whereas players are rarely allowed to JUST say sorry, but have to suffer an often disproportionate consequence.

Whilst there is little the ordinary people can do about it other than "bitch and moan", this doesn't make it right. Sometimes the people DO end up finding a way to force change, and this can sometimes be sudden and violent. We had the "Arab spring", but we also had the August riots here in the UK that DID take the establishment completely by surprise, because it was a venting of general anger against specific targets that were simply "in the wrong place at the wrong time", rather than being the cause of the anger. There were riots in Greece over the consequences of the banker's mistakes, and it was anger at being asked to suffer the austerity, but having not made the mistakes that caused it, nor benefitted from any of the profits generated. The UK riots grew because of a similar simmering anger, but needed a trigger as an excuse to kick them off, which was a police shooting, often forgotten by many as the initial trigger that put the idea to riot into people's minds. The rest was simply down to it being obvious that the authorities were completely overwhelmed, so the petty criminals seized an opportunity to help themselves using the excuse of "doing it in protest" at something, rather than just because they are greedy.

 

[footdr]

Can someone please explain.....

Exactly what is a max bet rule, when does it apply(when bonus redeemed only?) and exactly where is this term stated? I have never seen this as a term in a bonus or any other terms condition.

Please explain.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Exactly what is a max bet rule, when does it apply(when bonus redeemed only?) and exactly where is this term stated? I have never seen this as a term in a bonus or any other terms condition.

Please explain.

It is now quite common.

It applies when there is a bonus in play.

In normal play, the bet limits are set by the software, and operators set these to suit. Some now want a lower maximum bet when a bonus is in play, even though the software allows higher bets up to the limit set by the operator.

Rather than have the software detect the presence of a bonus and reduce the table or spin limits within the software, they add a term to the bonus rules to impose such a limit.

It can take several forms.

1) xx% of bonus credited
2) xx% of deposit
3) A specific amount, such as $6.50

There have been a few cases of "xx% of current balance", but this has lead to stupid situations and arguments, so is much less common.

The rule, where present, will be where the general bonus terms are listed, such as the WR, excluded games, max cashout, etc. It may not appear on specific bonus summaries as it is a general term covering all bonuses, or in some cases only the welcome bonus.

 

[aceking123]

sloto

hi i cant seem to get my head round with the defence for the op , i play with sloto dont get any problems if i do break the terms ( like the other day ) its pretty much my fault , anyway how on earth couldnt you see your account balance going down by 20 bucks a spin? its his job to double check what line bets are placed not that of the casino , that maybe harsh but its there written in the T&C , 6.50 max per spin & its clearly written aswell , let it be a lesson to him or her , double check on things before hitting that spin button , then he wouldnt be here complaing about it , i happen to believe that sloto is a good RTG casino & payouts are prompt .

 

[Slotster!]

double check on things before hitting that spin button , then he wouldnt be here complaing about it

... Double check your text file/game log attachment before hitting that 'send' button.

Everyone makes mistakes; some just get penalised more than others.

 

[KasinoKing]

Just a few things:

How on earth did this thread get to be over 140 posts??? (Mostly waffle, it has to be said).

I pretty much agree with everything Nifty said; The player broke the rules and had his winnings denied. End of story.
It was not one "simple little mistake" like hitting "Bet Max" by accident once or twice - it was 100s of spins! As a frequent player myself I usually tend to side with the players - but in this case the casino is perfectly entitled to invoke their rules IMO.

Why is everyone still talking about this - is there a world-wide shortage of forks or something?

KK

 

[anniemac]

Is this the same complaint that is on Gambling Grumbles? If it is, how is it that it is $12,400 here and $17,000 over there? $4,600 is a big difference in my book.

Just curious.

And I'm with KK, stick a fork in it. Done, done, done.

 

[BingoT]

I too say..........
It's time to put this to bed......

 

[Slotster!]

I pretty much agree with everything Nifty said; The player broke the rules and had his winnings denied. End of story.

Its not though, is it. Had the guy either been able to automatically check the play via a Playcheck type malarkey OR the casino had reliably supplied accurate indelible information quickly and in a trustable format - it would be that simple. But it isn't. Plus the other guy got paid (sort of).

There's a massive question mark over Slotocash. Or not, apparently. Depending on how tolerant you are of how a customer should be treated by a casino.

 

[anniemac]

Sorry, Slotster, it is done.

Sloto made their stand very clear so no matter how many times folks post in this thread, it's done. No one and nothing posted here is going to change the facts.

 

[Slotster!]

Sorry, Slotster, it is done.

Sloto made their stand very clear so no matter how many times folks post in this thread, it's done. No one and nothing posted here is going to change the facts.

Oh yeah, I get that. It's not my money, so that's kind of incidental to me. I'm not the Police either, so I'm not going to insist Sloto pays anyone. Up to them.

Critically, these forums provide an excellent audit trail for anyone making a decision on where they should throw their bankroll now or at some point in the future. When these sort of experiences are shared, it serves as excellent recommendation or warning.

Either way, the dissection and debate is important - regardless of if that's with rogue, accredited or anywhere inbetween.

 

[SlotsLover]

Not the same

This is not the same complaint, and in my opinion, the complaint at Gambling Grumbles is far worse as there no rules were broke but sloto is applying the spirit of the bonus to a player who deposited $400, took 400% then (according to sloto, not the OP) bet the max of $50 on a slot (still only 3% of the bonus), hit big, then bet the max on 20 line games and "grinded it out" at $20 per spin and is having his money confiscated. Not only was he within the rules completely, but the "advantage play" element is extremely doubtful as well.

Yes, no one is taking sloto to task on that one, but slamming sloto for a case where the rules were clearly broken.

Is this the same complaint that is on Gambling Grumbles? If it is, how is it that it is $12,400 here and $17,000 over there? $4,600 is a big difference in my book.

Just curious.

And I'm with KK, stick a fork in it. Done, done, done.

 

[anniemac]

Thanks, SlotsLover. I didn't read the whole thing at Grumbles, sorry.

This is two different kettle of fish. Unless the OP at Grumbles comes here and PAB then it's not likely to be discussed here.