Bogus Complaint Slot Addict AKA Feeder vs Rizkmas Raffle

[colinsunderland]

Talk of going in circles. Let's put this to bed. I will try to explain this from the legal point of view.

Compare it to Jaffa Cakes in your Tesco's supermarket. Tesco tells you if you buy 5 packs you will be entered into a live JAFFA (Rizk) prize draw, NOT a TESCO (NickSlots) prize draw. Hence, Tesco is only the intermediary agent and Jaffa is the promoter.

Suddenly, 1Mio people buy 5 packs of Jaffa Cakes making it difficult to do it all live. So they alter slightly the selection process which is still random but they don't change the prizes promised in the draw. To be able to do that they have a clause in their T&C's saying: "We may, in our absolute discretion, alter or amend any product offered via the Website at any time."

Ergo, nothing wrong has been done as the OP or some suggested. The only thing, but that is also covered in the T&C with "in our absolute discretion", is making the information widely available. But according to "interlog" even that was done live on the stream by NickSlots.

So where the h*ll can you see a mistake here?? There is none!!! Basta.

Its quite simple, that would never happen, and in a prize draw like that you ALWAYS see 'no purchase necessary', and usually says you can enter by sending your entry by post without buying anything. The reason for this is to ensure they don't require a gambling license to run the draw.

This was not a free prize draw, a purchase was necessary and there was no free entry route therefore is classed as a lottery under the gambling act 2005.

A term saying they can change things ant any time doesn't apply to products like this, a companies terms and conditions do not over ride the law.

No one here is trying to sweep anything under the carpet !!

To answer the above as best that i can:

Firstly, this was not a lottery - that is entirely different and you pay money into a pool which is then divided out by some means. This was a Free Prize Draw that we tried to help Nick create - very much like a "spend £50 on shopping this week at your local supermarket and get entered into a free prize draw for X,Y or Z". As such there is no licence required.

Secondly, every single player that did qualify, in this case by purchasing gambling services, was entered into a draw and randomly selected and therefore everyone had exactly the same chance of winning as everyone else. Yes, we did this on behalf of Nick as we held the data. We still have and hold the data and the draw and the results.

ok, see you have contradicted yourself there straight away. You say it was a free prize draw, but then in the next paragraph clearly state to enter you had to purchase gambling services. Therefore it wasn't a free to enter prize draw was it, and as such, under the Gambling Act, is clearly classed as a lottery.

The simple test is, if someone did not make a deposit could they get a ticket to the draw? If yes then it was a prize draw and not covered by the act, if no then it is a lottery and covered by the act.

A lottery has three essential elements:

1 Payment is required to participate
2 One or more prizes are awarded
3 Those prizes are awarded by chance

Which of those did this not have?

Had we just randomly selected the winners electronically and posted the result then I doubt that we would be here discussing this now but we resolved to put 50 of the original tickets into a live draw for Nick to do on his stream as we believed that this would be more transparent - clearly this was a mistake. However I must reiterate every single ticket had an equal chance of winning.

So did anyone get more than one entry to the final 50 draw? Like if someone had 5 tickets were they all entered in the initial draw or was it one per person?

Bit more on legal definitions

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If a competition does not satisfy the skill requirement, it will be a lottery unless either no payment is required to participate in the competition (whether this is to enter the competition, or to find out if you have won, or to collect a prize) or there is an alternative free entry route. It is irrelevant whether the payment benefits the person running the competition or someone else, e.g. a telecoms company providing the premium-rate telephone number used to participate in the competition.

As I have already said, I have no doubt the competition was fair, and was conducted completely above board, possibly with a few mistakes, but nevertheless nothing underhand. At the end of it its not as if you didn't pay the prize or anything, so can personally see no point whatsoever in cheating, which is what I think the person who brought this up was implying. However if you run a competition, of any sort, when someone asks for clarification that it was ran fairly, telling them to fuck off, calling them a sad loser and all the rest isn't what I would call acceptable. Obviously you do, so we have different viewpoints on how to treat customers. Thats fair enough.

Just to reiterate though - I personally don't think there was anything underhand went on, people won and if it were from the main draw or not it doesn't really matter, it probably shouldn't have been done like it was, but I can't see how anyone was disadvantaged by it.

 

[Playford7]

Its quite simple, that would never happen, and in a prize draw like that you ALWAYS see 'no purchase necessary', and usually says you can enter by sending your entry by post without buying anything. The reason for this is to ensure they don't require a gambling license to run the draw.

This was not a free prize draw, a purchase was necessary and there was no free entry route therefore is classed as a lottery under the gambling act 2005.

A term saying they can change things ant any time doesn't apply to products like this, a companies terms and conditions do not over ride the law.



ok, see you have contradicted yourself there straight away. You say it was a free prize draw, but then in the next paragraph clearly state to enter you had to purchase gambling services. Therefore it wasn't a free to enter prize draw was it, and as such, under the Gambling Act, is clearly classed as a lottery.

The simple test is, if someone did not make a deposit could they get a ticket to the draw? If yes then it was a prize draw and not covered by the act, if no then it is a lottery and covered by the act.

A lottery has three essential elements:

1 Payment is required to participate
2 One or more prizes are awarded
3 Those prizes are awarded by chance

Which of those did this not have?



So did anyone get more than one entry to the final 50 draw? Like if someone had 5 tickets were they all entered in the initial draw or was it one per person?

Bit more on legal definitions

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

If a competition does not satisfy the skill requirement, it will be a lottery unless either no payment is required to participate in the competition (whether this is to enter the competition, or to find out if you have won, or to collect a prize) or there is an alternative free entry route. It is irrelevant whether the payment benefits the person running the competition or someone else, e.g. a telecoms company providing the premium-rate telephone number used to participate in the competition.

As I have already said, I have no doubt the competition was fair, and was conducted completely above board, possibly with a few mistakes, but nevertheless nothing underhand. At the end of it its not as if you didn't pay the prize or anything, so can personally see no point whatsoever in cheating, which is what I think the person who brought this up was implying. However if you run a competition, of any sort, when someone asks for clarification that it was ran fairly, telling them to fuck off, calling them a sad loser and all the rest isn't what I would call acceptable. Obviously you do, so we have different viewpoints on how to treat customers. Thats fair enough.

Just to reiterate though - I personally don't think there was anything underhand went on, people won and if it were from the main draw or not it doesn't really matter, it probably shouldn't have been done like it was, but I can't see how anyone was disadvantaged by it.

Hear hear!! Fantastic post. It's not the fact of the legitimacy of the draw, with a large casino that is not in question, it's the manner in the whole pathetic affair was dealt with that's caused people issue. It to anyone is looked upon as nothing but a poorly organised farce. Hardly looks good for the streamer nor the casino. Although the original OP made a mockery and a total cock up of trying to address the issues he had in the terrible and rather underhand way he did,what good has came out of this is a open discussion in a forum that is exactly here to provide that, online casino discussion,a lot of valid points where made on both sides of the coin, the casino was actively involved and it also provoked some questions on the manner in how streamers conduct themselfs and the morales and general manners required to be on a public platform. I personally never watch any of them anymore, this being a huge reason, the other is that 3 weeks out of 4 I work a month I'm usually out of the country. Also the majority of clientele that a streamer gets without being snobby are the non working who have however many free hours a day to watch a moron beg for cash and gamble like it's going out of fashion.

 

[Casinomeister]

Is it me, or even since this 'streaming' bollocks has become popular, the number of flaming and downright cantankerous threads has increased?...

LOL - it reminds me of the time when there were a bunch of "ezy boards" out there that were always getting into hissy fits with one another. (circa 2000 - 2008 or so). And these bitchy brawls would spill over to this place. This is one of the main reasons I created forum rule 1.8 - No portal wars.

 

[Playford7]

LOL - it reminds me of the time when there were a bunch of "ezy boards" out there that were always getting into hissy fits with one another. (circa 2000 - 2008 or so). And these bitchy brawls would spill over to this place. This is one of the main reasons I created forum rule 1.8 - No portal wars.

Could you explain the portal wars rule please? As from what I understand it'd fit rather nicely into this thread, as if you follow,have followed (which I doubt you do lol) the twitch/YouTube streamer gambling community, it's definitely not one you would like on here. It's clearly dumb down and devalue any thread on here. The points or some of them raised upon this silly little argument are very valid granted, but a punter agreeved over a twitch raffle is rather silly, should the original OP really wanted to have this addressed, as we all know casinomeister had the tools at his disposal to do it properly. I do think enough time and publicity has been given to slot grinder and feeder and nick or whoever they may be as it is.

 

[dunover]

Could you explain the portal wars rule please? As from what I understand it'd fit rather nicely into this thread, as if you follow,have followed (which I doubt you do lol) the twitch/YouTube streamer gambling community, it's definitely not one you would like on here. It's clearly dumb down and devalue any thread on here. The points or some of them raised upon this silly little argument are very valid granted, but a punter agreeved over a twitch raffle is rather silly, should the original OP really wanted to have this addressed, as we all know casinomeister had the tools at his disposal to do it properly. I do think enough time and publicity has been given to slot grinder and feeder and nick or whoever they may be as it is.

A portal war is CM members whom are advocates or participants of rival or alternative forums (or other mediums of discussion like Twitch subscribers) bringing their petty squabbles, flaming and trolling onto CM.

 

[interlog]

Hear hear!! Fantastic post. It's not the fact of the legitimacy of the draw, with a large casino that is not in question, it's the manner in the whole pathetic affair was dealt with that's caused people issue. It to anyone is looked upon as nothing but a poorly organised farce. Hardly looks good for the streamer nor the casino. Although the original OP made a mockery and a total cock up of trying to address the issues he had in the terrible and rather underhand way he did,what good has came out of this is a open discussion in a forum that is exactly here to provide that, online casino discussion,a lot of valid points where made on both sides of the coin, the casino was actively involved and it also provoked some questions on the manner in how streamers conduct themselfs and the morales and general manners required to be on a public platform. I personally never watch any of them anymore, this being a huge reason, the other is that 3 weeks out of 4 I work a month I'm usually out of the country. Also the majority of clientele that a streamer gets without being snobby are the non working who have however many free hours a day to watch a moron beg for cash and gamble like it's going out of fashion.

How insulting not only to streamers but also the viewers . It obviously nver occurred to you that people watch from different time zones and what may be your working hours are their evening after work hours.

 

[Playford7]

How insulting not only to streamers but also the viewers . It obviously nver occurred to you that people watch from different time zones and what may be your working hours are their evening after work hours.

As was previously mentioned by another poster your opinion is one sided due to casino grounds. So you can't hold a unbiased opinion like the rest of us. And what exactly is insulting?.. the majority of people watching are the ones who enter the free raffles then leave straight after, look at YouTube chat for instance on these streams, that's not slot fans is it?.. the only streamers worth a watch if I ever have the time are Paul and the bandit. Decent people with no agenda. No donations may I add. Furthermore I don't think this is the place to set aside opinions over streaming or streamers..it's a serious online casino site, a place for real players or fans of online slots, not a place to promote a streamers parasitic ways.

 

[Playford7]

As was previously mentioned by another poster your opinion is one sided due to casino grounds. So you can't hold a unbiased opinion like the rest of us. And what exactly is insulting?.. the majority of people watching are the ones who enter the free raffles then leave straight after, look at YouTube chat for instance on these streams, that's not slot fans is it?.. the only streamers worth a watch if I ever have the time are Paul and the bandit. Decent people with no agenda. No donations may I add. Furthermore I don't think this is the place to set aside opinions over streaming or streamers..it's a serious online casino site, a place for real players or fans of online slots, not a place to promote a streamers parasitic ways.

Furthermore is this not classed as a 'portal war' as you have a confirmed vested intrest in casino grounds, which I may add nick is involved??.. may i also add anyone who has had a opinion against him or paul you have commented on a negative vibe?.. I could say a lot about nick, and as to quote the great David starkey 'I have emails' in relation to that silly little Laurie penny, but I won't. Reason being there's nicer and more moral people on this forum who have helped me in the past, rather than me waste any small reputation I may ever of had here arguing with a 'streamer' and his stooges. End of

 

[interlog]

As was previously mentioned by another poster your opinion is one sided due to casino grounds. So you can't hold a unbiased opinion like the rest of us. And what exactly is insulting?.. the majority of people watching are the ones who enter the free raffles then leave straight after, look at YouTube chat for instance on these streams, that's not slot fans is it?.. the only streamers worth a watch if I ever have the time are Paul and the bandit. Decent people with no agenda. No donations may I add. Furthermore I don't think this is the place to set aside opinions over streaming or streamers..it's a serious online casino site, a place for real players or fans of online slots, not a place to promote a streamers parasitic ways.

I am a member here such as you. I contributed here long before I started to stream my play so I am certainly not biased and I am a real player as much as the next person reading this. So I will continue here whether that pleases you or not.

People may well watch streams for the free spins and raffles. Maybe they watch The Bandit because of the giveaways too? Does that make him a parasite because he gets more affiliate money because of it? Who cares, but I would not make the statement like you did that they (the viewers) are out of work.

 

[Playford7]

I am a member here such as you. I contributed here long before I started to stream my play so I am certainly not biased and I am a real player as much as the next person reading this. So I will continue here whether that pleases you or not.

People may well watch streams for the free spins and raffles. Maybe they watch The Bandit because of the giveaways too? Does that make him a parasite because he gets more affiliate money because of it? Who cares, but I would not make the statement like you did that they are out of work.

No but you never hear nor do you see the bandit comment insulting his viewers, being down right arrogant or lying. Look at the bandits subs, there public on twitch also YouTube. And it's not about pleasing me, as I really couldn't give a hoot for a streamer protecting his investment, that's down to you. I merely have a opinon that is all. Whether u like it or not is irrelevant. As previously said, is rather not do this here as it's well below casinomeister.

 

[interlog]

No but you never hear nor do you see the bandit comment insulting his viewers, being down right arrogant or lying. Look at the bandits subs, there public on twitch also YouTube. And it's not about pleasing me, as I really couldn't give a hoot for a streamer protecting his investment, that's down to you. I merely have a opinon that is all. Whether u like it or not is irrelevant. As previously said, is rather not do this here as it's well below casinomeister.

No you don't because his material is one way rather than live where you the streamer at times get insulted so you react to that (rightly or wrongly).

As for protecting my investment. I wouldn't be able to put bread on the table from my affiliate commission if that was my source of income. There are months where I get sod all.

Stop tarring all streamers with the same brush because you don't like one or two of them.

 

[Playford7]

No you don't because his material is one way rather than live where you the streamer at times get insulted so you react to that (rightly or wrongly).

As for protecting my investment. I wouldn't be able to put bread on the table from my affiliate commission if that was my source of income. There are months where I get sod all.

Stop tarring all streamers with the same brush because you don't like one or two of them.

Excuse me . But I've never called nor attacked you once. I've no idea who you are. Nor will I ever will have. You do what you do to put bread on the table. I prefer to earn taxes and provide for my own through hard work and qualifications rather than prey on those who may join through a link. Look I'm not getting into this anymore, as said many times previous. Streaming is a invidious topic on casinomeister and unless there's a case to bring it up, well let's not. I've been honest and polite. I've had my view you had yours. Let's leave it at that. Ok

 

[interlog]

Excuse me . But I've never called nor attacked you once. I've no idea who you are. Nor will I ever will have. You do what you do to put bread on the table. I prefer to earn taxes and provide for my own through hard work and qualifications rather than prey on those who may join through a link. Look I'm not getting into this anymore, as said many times previous. Streaming is a invidious topic on casinomeister and unless there's a case to bring it up, well let's not. I've been honest and polite. I've had my view you had yours. Let's leave it at that. Ok

Don't blame me for reacting when you compare streamers to parasites. There really was no need for that irrespective of your views on them.

We are human too after all.

 

[colinsunderland]

Excuse me . But I've never called nor attacked you once. I've no idea who you are. Nor will I ever will have. You do what you do to put bread on the table. I prefer to earn taxes and provide for my own through hard work and qualifications rather than prey on those who may join through a link. Look I'm not getting into this anymore, as said many times previous. Streaming is a invidious topic on casinomeister and unless there's a case to bring it up, well let's not. I've been honest and polite. I've had my view you had yours. Let's leave it at that. Ok

Seriously?
So basically you are calling all affiliates there, including the people who run this forum?

I am an affiliate, I pay tax on my earnings and is all declared to HMRC. I work hard and one of my income streams is from affiliate revenue. I don't prey on anyone, but thanks for tarring all affiliates with the same brush.

 

[Playford7]

Seriously?
So basically you are calling all affiliates there, including the people who run this forum?

I am an affiliate, I pay tax on my earnings and is all declared to HMRC. I work hard and one of my income streams is from affiliate revenue. I don't prey on anyone, but thanks for tarring all affiliates with the same brush.

Nope not a affiliate. So appologies for that. I meant streamers like rick snots and the like. So please don't get on your high horse. There is no need

 

[Playford7]

Nope not a affiliate. So appologies for that. I meant streamers like rick snots and the like. So please don't get on your high horse. There is no need

And you can also see. I never mentioned affialtes per se. It's a thread on a streamer. So please don't tar me with a brush that's totally unjustified. Never called affiliates anything, only 'certain' ones who clearly take the blatant piss.

 

[lockinlove]

As was previously mentioned by another poster your opinion is one sided due to casino grounds. So you can't hold a unbiased opinion like the rest of us. And what exactly is insulting?.. the majority of people watching are the ones who enter the free raffles then leave straight after, look at YouTube chat for instance on these streams, that's not slot fans is it?.. the only streamers worth a watch if I ever have the time are Paul and the bandit. Decent people with no agenda. No donations may I add. Furthermore I don't think this is the place to set aside opinions over streaming or streamers..it's a serious online casino site, a place for real players or fans of online slots, not a place to promote a streamers parasitic ways.

So he cant say anything at all about anything ever?

Who made you princess of casinomeister? He can do as he pleases and post how he wants as long as its within the rules.

In regards to your comment that only jobless nobodies watch streaming. I watch streaming. I have a full time job and I go to the gym thank you very much.

 

[interlog]

And you can also see. I never mentioned affialtes per se. It's a thread on a streamer. So please don't tar me with a brush that's totally unjustified. Never called affiliates anything, only 'certain' ones who clearly take the blatant piss.

It was you turning this topic about one streamer and a casino into a general rant against streamers.

You accused me of being biased when it is now absolutely clear that you have your own agenda.

We get it. You don't like Nick. That is fine.

 

[Playford7]

So he cant say anything at all about anything ever?

Who made you princess of casinomeister? He can do as he pleases and post how he wants as long as its within the rules.

In regards to your comment that only jobless nobodies watch streaming. I watch streaming. I have a full time job and I go to the gym thank you very much.

Well I notice you have many many a opinion on casinomeister also...are u the princess?.. I'm also allowed my opinion? So what exactly is ur point? U been here longer? Also saw ur also mates with this guy, so ur yet another with a biased opinion. And do you follow or watch and follow uk steams regularly?..on YouTube and twitch during working hours?..really? If you did you would have a idea what I meant. There full of imbeciles. Maybe the odd 20 if that decent folk. The rest which u will have no idea of troll almost every casino or gambling channel in the uk. So please, keep away from a debate that frankly doesn't need u, being a well represented member or not

 

[Tirilej]

Well I notice you have many many a opinion on casinomeister also...are u the princess?.. I'm also allowed my opinion? So what exactly is ur point? U been here longer? Also saw ur also mates with this guy, so ur yet another with a biased opinion. And do you follow or watch and follow uk steams regularly?..on YouTube and twitch during working hours?..really? If you did you would have a idea what I meant. There full of imbeciles. Maybe the odd 20 if that decent folk. The rest which u will have no idea of troll almost every casino or gambling channel in the uk. So please, keep away from a debate that frankly doesn't need u, being a well represented member or not

Now you better stop insulting people more or you will probably find yourself a non member here tomorrow.
There are all kinds in this forum. I suggest you take a step back and read up a bit instead.

 

[Playford7]

It was you turning this topic about one streamer and a casino into a general rant against streamers.

You accused me of being biased when it is now absolutely clear that you have your own agenda.

We get it. You don't like Nick. That is fine.

There is hardly anyone that likes him. That was never the issue at all. The only one twisting this is you because you couldn't be honest or hold a intelligent argument. Tbh I'd expect no less from a career 'streamer'

 

[interlog]

Well I notice you have many many a opinion on casinomeister also...are u the princess?.. I'm also allowed my opinion? So what exactly is ur point? U been here longer? Also saw ur also mates with this guy, so ur yet another with a biased opinion. And do you follow or watch and follow uk steams regularly?..on YouTube and twitch during working hours?..really? If you did you would have a idea what I meant. There full of imbeciles. Maybe the odd 20 if that decent folk. The rest which u will have no idea of troll almost every casino or gambling channel in the uk. So please, keep away from a debate that frankly doesn't need u, being a well represented member or not

Are you for real? What is it with the insults. Imbeciles, parasites etc.

It tells me actually more about you than the people you are insulting.

 

[interlog]

There is hardly anyone that likes him. That was never the issue at all. The only one twisting this is you because you couldn't be honest or hold a intelligent argument. Tbh I'd expect no less from a career 'streamer'

Career streamer? I have a very well paid job thank you very much.

I stream as a hobby. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Playford7]

Are you for real? What is it with the insults. Imbeciles, parasites etc.

It tells me actually more about you than the people you are insulting.

Playing to the members I see. Good move I may add, because I had valid points, like the emails I mentioned earlier, that you side tracked. What are you wanting me banned for having a opinon?. I've never personally called anybody, but I do take exception when people who have no idea who iam and jump into a debate that hasn't involved them one little bit maybe because they think casinomeister is there's and not for a member of the public to have a opinion on. You sidetracked that guy who had valid points on the raffle also, your comments on paul on here are rather underhand, yet nobody realises that. Ur clearly biased to casino grounds, yet that's forgotten. I tried numerous times to close my dialogue with you, you never allowed that, before iam banned(which will be almost inevitable now) I thought this was a place of free speech?..because you don't like what I'm saying is wrong?.. portal wars cm said?.. well that encapsulated you in one.

 

[Playford7]

Now you better stop insulting people more or you will probably find yourself a non member here tomorrow.
There are all kinds in this forum. I suggest you take a step back and read up a bit instead.

Rest my case. A well spoken member defending a well spoken member. Yet as I have a opinion, your telling me I can't be a member possibly tomorrow?..irony? Look read my full posts. I've been more than polite and also fair. Is this just a club for a few good old boys n girls and the rest of the casino community don't matter?.