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Shock! Casino owners may change RTP in Play N'GO slots!

bamberfishcake said:
Getting confirmation from PnG would be excellant. However, the evidence is pretty conclusive.

With the information gathered there are evident differences in the versions being played at different casinos. The evident difference is in the programming line which reads:

<custom><RTP Value=\"96"\"

Another version, as shown in screenshots would be:

<custom><RTP Value=\"84"\"

Sorry if it seems like im stating the obvious but what other possible explanation could there be for this source code from the PnG server.

Its a different RTP version. No other possible explanation.
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Correct - no need to be so worried on this aspect
 
[ (like inQUOTE="Marchev, post: 1086242, member: 53337"]
I think post of @FAZI1 explains everything :) check the video
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately not really familiar with language in videos :) PnG website advise their default RTP which word they also use in material they provide to operators where are listed all RTP:s so don't really see that as a big fake but very short description of the game. They do provide information to all their customers in detail.
 
Trueflip.io has replied to my inquiry. They claim to don’t know much. Say that the rtp is now set at 96% and don’t want to comment on what the rtp was before.

I asked them to investigate and provide a real answer. Will see and update as soon as I hear back
 

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lewisnadasurf said:
I wonder how the games play different with a different RTP.

Does the base game play the same? Is the % lost in the bonus?

Or is the whole game % lower?
Click to expand...

There are various ways to make these changes of course, would assume that providers target is to make changes hard as possible to recognize and it seems that they are doing quite well in it.

Once when tested PnG with three different RTP:s, it was for people who are playing these slots daily, really difficult to find out which was what when let 5 days time to play much as just possible or after analyze gameplay from results and tell which one is running higher or lower RTP.

At least so far haven't heard that people who play these daily or analyze gameplays part of their job, would have been able to accurately point out which one run 96% and 94%. Personally wasn't able to accurately call which one is lower setting from 5 different game histories where one was lower.
 
mack341 said:
Could someone summarise the issues/concerns currently, from the player's perspective, I'm getting a bit lost atm :oops:
Click to expand...

Guess main thing for most is that one big UK operator most probably are running different version of the game than advised :)

Then some normal Curacao with love thingies were their RTP have changed there and back some times within short period (casinos where most of people probably don't play if not forced by their country of residence). They anyway are not obligated to publish their RTP and them to do something weird is probably not that big thing for most than UK one.

If i follow right, one place who hold European license have had that discrepancy between information and reality and if that's happening, players have been playing games where theoretical RTP have been lower than informed :)
 
mmandre1 said:
Trueflip.io has replied to my inquiry. They claim to don’t know much. Say that the rtp is now set at 96% and don’t want to comment on what the rtp was before.

I asked them to investigate and provide a real answer. Will see and update as soon as I hear back
Click to expand...

Most of these smaller outfits get their games supplied by an aggregator, e.g. in your case Softgamings which is a sizeable provider, especially in the grey market. IIRC, they do have some connections to Georgia and Israel as they work with BetConstruct among others. Would need to check some stuff again, not really sure, my brain is sometimes like a sieve. :oops:

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The casino operators actually only use APIs to show the games. That is not to say that they could agree with an aggregator on a lower RTP as they will have all versions available supplied directly from PnG. Would be a case of switching APIs in the background, a matter of 10 seconds or a minute at most.
 
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On Cashmio the only PlaynGo I see they run at a lower RTP version is Wild Frames. Says 94% version in the help files and 94 in code - 94% version.

Book Of Dead, Reactoonz, Rise Of Olympus, Gemix, Sword & The Grail - 96% versions. All correctly stated.

Checked all and coding matches.

The only difference between them all is only Wild Frames shows the coding at the 94 version. The others read 96 so the coding stacks up with whats being stated in the help files.

Sometimes refreshing the page and/or waiting a little for code to load helped me find it also.
 
mmandre1 said:
Trueflip.io has replied to my inquiry. They claim to don’t know much. Say that the rtp is now set at 96% and don’t want to comment on what the rtp was before.

I asked them to investigate and provide a real answer. Will see and update as soon as I hear back
Click to expand...
TrueFlip are LYING ALWAYS need to know this!!!!
 
bamberfishcake said:
Ive been wondering if its possible for the version to be switched whilst in the middle of a session?

I doubt it as any interruption to the game would refresh but it would explain the ole 'games played whilst wagering the bonus but died out at the end' feeling.
Click to expand...

You mean when you get the "connection to the server is slow" message? :p
 
sufferinsilence said:
You mean when you get the "connection to the server is slow" message? :p
Click to expand...

Now there's a thought, we should stop now or every glitch, slow reel or slight delay will start making us paranoid.......i can see me now when Jack and The Beanstalk does the clunky reel bonus tell, frantically checking code....oh wait, thats Netent - no need for them yet.

But seriously...when the fun stops!
 
bamberfishcake said:
Ive been wondering if its possible for the version to be switched whilst in the middle of a session?

I doubt it as any interruption to the game would refresh but it would explain the ole 'games played whilst wagering the bonus but died out at the end' feeling.
Click to expand...
Yeah thats true and happens in Cuaracao casinos i get errors like this in Horus casino and may russian ones, they start lagging and get error after refresh get like 20 dead spins to complete 600eur wager i spend 240eur :D this is one of sketchy things they do so i exclude myself from 95% of Curacao casinos!
 
Marchev said:
Yeah thats true and happens in Cuaracao casinos i get errors like this in Horus casino and may russian ones, they start lagging and get error after refresh get like 20 dead spins to complete 600eur wager i spend 240eur :D this is one of sketchy things they do so i exclude myself from 95% of Curacao casinos!
Click to expand...

So you have checked that your gameplay is changed middle of your session? Anything can happen in Curacao but there's very little difference if your one session is running what ever RTP and it changing RTP don't make game to give you 20 dead spins right away but they behave very similar way than higher RTP version.

edit: and somebody monitoring single players to switch different RTP middle of session sounds already bit too much bad movie and conspiracy theory :D
 
As i said i have to wager 600eur and wager so badly!
Always if do new account in curacao russian casino i get lucky
i do easy with 50eur deposit 500eur :)
but after 1K wager is left and so fkn hard to complete without wasting half or more of balance....
I see how games pays fist day and IF i cashout BIG you get so cold slots next MONTH....

Tell me mister how is possible to cashout good money
and never happens again i waste like 50 deposits for year in this casinos just to be sure slots are really cold!
And that happens always in this scammy casinos they give you hype for short time!
They use pirate servers and control everything!
They write also a lot fake reviews on websites to keep good reputation,
once i write review on AskGamblers
the website accept the review and
on next day "manager" from casino trying to say i lying
i win so much and cashout i am lier :D but the truth is i am - 5K eur
and they try to delete my bad review with saying i am lier :D
Yeah but that not happens because i can show screenshots!

Also in casinos like that you cant exclude your account, always need to contact with support they asking why and serve weird offers like freespins with 40x wager :D also they get so fast deposits like 1K 5 days in a row but if you ask to cashout 5K they will delay 10days to verify you just because they are poor!
They offer streamers to play with fake money just because if play on cold slots with own money will be streamers for a month or week :D
I see how streamers like this losing like 20K per week in this fkn fake casinos and they tilt so fake but that works for supids. They just get clean revenue from believers!
But i try like 10 curacao casinos and always is same sht...

If someone think it's not true i can send casinos to try :D and i can bet will happen same what i say.
 
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Still would like to see something bit more concrete than own feeling that even these scum operators would change you middle of your session to other server where some game would run with 0% RTP. If you can get your gameplay history from any of such a places and show where it happened, will promise to go it through and ask some second opinions from people who really are familiar with analyzing analyzing game histories because doing it as part of they work.

Until that i don't really buy that story but if you can get such a game history, it can be seen if something is changed to near 0 RTP which is not then anymore provided by PnG or any other operators. Just changing your RTP to from 96% to 84% don't make that remarkable change in gameplay you are referring to.

You have chance to prove me wrong by getting some examples where enough spins are played (you can't really judge anything for few dead spins or lost balance as that happen for any games).
 
Slottery said:
Still would like to see something bit more concrete than own feeling that even these scum operators would change you middle of your session to other server where some game would run with 0% RTP. If you can get your gameplay history from any of such a places and show where it happened, will promise to go it through and ask some second opinions from people who really are familiar with analyzing analyzing game histories because doing it as part of they work.

Until that i don't really buy that story but if you can get such a game history, it can be seen if something is changed to near 0 RTP which is not then anymore provided by PnG or any other operators. Just changing your RTP to from 96% to 84% don't make that remarkable change in gameplay you are referring to.

You have chance to prove me wrong by getting some examples where enough spins are played (you can't really judge anything for few dead spins or lost balance as that happen for any games).
Click to expand...

Why in legit casinos like i never get this lags and errors ??? Why i can win each week and same day in 3 scam casinos i lose but in MGA popular casinos WOW i can be lucky too much really!
 
Can you believe Legacy of dead 400spins no bonus, next day i get two bonuses in other slot and both pays 5x :D for low bet player this is scam :D
Just remember my words IF you cashout once in casino like this you will lose as weeks losing and losing!
I see fake streamer how losing 6 days 3K or more imagine for normal player with 100 eur how much is chance in lowered RTP slots!
 
I gave you option to proof it's happening, until then can't take it much else than same story what have heard hundreds of times. Nothing personal but have come immune to these feelings about slot suddenly change to 0 RTP version. Amount of these experiences is so huge that i have no doubt people do believe what they say but something concrete would be nice to see, analyzing game history would show if there's clear pattern but still never seen one, many normal ones where that sudden change has been in players believing after losing.
 
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Hey this is not 1 week gambling this is 2019 and i win once HUGE if it's huge 1K cashout
I don't know what to say more... i will just stop notifications.... Go play on casinos like this!
 
ChopleyIOM said:
That would be handy Harry. Following extensive testing I'm 99.99% sure that the value shown in the network trace is the slot's running RTP, but it'd be nice to get confirmation on it before going live with any public videos or suchlike.
Click to expand...

Just in case you and @colinsunderland are wondering..... he read the message and.... CRICKETS! :rolleyes:

1581649828415.webp
 
ChopleyIOM said:
The only thing I'm still trying to get my head around is why the RTP is there in plain text in the server calls, however thinking about it PNG probably don't run five logically distinct servers for each RTP variation, so the server needs to know which RTP model a client is requesting a result from.

So from VS you're calling the 94% maths model, from dodgy Russian casino you're calling the 84% maths model, from LeoVegas you're calling the 96% maths model, and so on.

So maybe it's as a simple as that, maybe that is part of the call from the client, 'Hello PNG server, please give me a result from the 94% maths model for Book Of Dead'. And maybe PNG did just leave that part of the request as a plain text variable in one of the server calls.

Anyway, if any of this stuff changes I've already gathered plenty of videos and screenshots for a video for the channel, I'm just keeping my powder dry until we can bottom things out.

This is the kind of thing where some input from trancemonkey might be useful
Click to expand...

I'm afraid i don't know enough about online coding to explain why the RTP is sent to the client - could be so it can display it in the help file. Could be simple for the reason you suggest - although that would only make sense if they were running multiple maths models across the site - which of course may be true. They may run a lower RTP for people from Italy (for example) than for Germany.

The fact that PnG do RTP's as low as they do is not the issue here - market forces require many different RTP types (and taxation, and whatever) - but for me, what is important is that players are told the RTP, and what they are told is what they are getting.

Fruit machines in the UK are as low as 72%, but at least it says in on them, so it's up to the players if they play them or not.
 
mmandre1 said:
So trueflip.io is saying:

a. They can’t change rtp - only the provider (meaning PlayNGo) can
b. They don’t know what the rtp for PlayNGo is or has been nor can they ever find out

pretty ridiculous arguments
Click to expand...

A) is true if you are referring to them being able to select an RTP the provider hasn't made.

B) Is quite simply untrue. What business would not know how much money they are making from the product they have on their website.
 
Marchev said:
Can you believe Legacy of dead 400spins no bonus, next day i get two bonuses in other slot and both pays 5x :D for low bet player this is scam :D
Just remember my words IF you cashout once in casino like this you will lose as weeks losing and losing!
I see fake streamer how losing 6 days 3K or more imagine for normal player with 100 eur how much is chance in lowered RTP slots!
Click to expand...
I can believe that.
Just yesterday I tried DoA on 18p, after few some-x bonuses I've finally got a nice bonus round of little bit over than 500x. After some random games I've started to play BoD (my all time favourite game). Had more than a £100 balance, so played at £0.50 - £0.20. At the end I spent way over 500 spins, lots of teasers, but no bonus.
This is a legit casino, so there is no chance of doing something wrong from inside (still checked the RTP with new-found way :) ).
There are good days and there are bad days. For me both days happened in one session. It just happens.
 
Didnt want to start a new thread just for this question so im borrowing this since its rtp-related.
Im wondering about what sites use the 98% version of Mystery reels megaways, without having the added jackpot-thingy.

Vera&John uses that version, but they have recently added the jackpot to it, wich kind of takes away the extra rtp and puts it closer to the normal 96% version.
At first they didnt add the jackpot to the megaways slots from red tiger, but now it seems all RT slots have the jackpot added.
 
Kroffe said:
Didnt want to start a new thread just for this question so im borrowing this since its rtp-related.
Im wondering about what sites use the 98% version of Mystery reels megaways, without having the added jackpot-thingy.

Vera&John uses that version, but they have recently added the jackpot to it, wich kind of takes away the extra rtp and puts it closer to the normal 96% version.
At first they didnt add the jackpot to the megaways slots from red tiger, but now it seems all RT slots have the jackpot added.
Click to expand...
I'd flag @Harry_BKK he's usually pretty good for knowing these at the top of his head
 
dionysus said:
I'd flag @Harry_BKK he's usually pretty good for knowing these at the top of his head
Click to expand...
Hah, now i dont need to.
Im only allowed to flag him for slotquestions 10 times per week, so i cant use them carelessly.
You only have 9 now tho.
 
Kroffe said:
Cheers!
Will give it a go on Rizk or Unibet next time i play it then.
I will send 10% of the winnings as a thank you, provided that you accept responsibility for 50% of any losses that might occur.
;)
Click to expand...

It might change soon as GiG sold Rizk and it siblings to Betsson AB just a few weeks ago. And I think they have the jackpots on Red Tiger Games.
 
Harry_BKK said:
It might change soon as GiG sold Rizk and it siblings to Betsson AB just a few weeks ago. And I think they have the jackpots on Red Tiger Games.
Click to expand...
They do, but there are some exceptions.
None of the megaways slots have them added, and i think a couple other aswell.
 

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