Casino Complaint Royal Vegas takes my deposits and winnings

[ChillBill]

An accredited casino or group here, should stand for something. A representation for the best of the best, and a safe place to play online. Admittidely the playing pattern of the OP by winning on Roulette and grinding the remaining bonus on slots, is text book advantage play. Though, unlike the majority of threads on this dispute topic, I hold the same opinion as VWM.

A classic newbie mistake, misplaced trust in an operator or situation.

VWM highlights another observation, imo one of greater concern. That is, the ongoing issue at FL where the Left Hand is not talking to the Right Hand and visa versa. It's not the 1'st time this gremlin has popped its head up here. Actually it seems to happen on a regular basis. The circle jerk with identification documents is one example.

It's one part of the team not in step with the other. Team A put the deposits back into the accounts for play or player withdrawal, whilst Team B decided that the accounts would be locked for good, but didn't tell Team A that this meant they had to refund the deposit, not place it into the account, whilst Team A didn't tell Team B that they HAD put the deposit into the accounts, and expected the player to withdraw them.

It's my understanding FL have a bespoke internal messaging system. Surely combined with internal emails, this system should prevent, if not erradicate, one department not keeping in step with the other. But clearly it's not working and some bugs still need ironing out.

Wouldn't it be simpler to write your terms and conditions to make this style of play impossible?

Yes, this would seem a logical action.
Another, would be for FL to utilise the max bet system available on the MGS platform. 32Red impliments this but FL does not.

Surely with bonus related issues being one of, if not the most common player disputes at CM and other forums, taking steps to minimise these disputes at FL, would again seem a logical step forward. But instead of fixing the problem, FL seems content to keep it dysfunctional and broken.

 

[skiny]

our Terms clearly state:

"The casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings for irregular play. Irregular play includes, but is not limited to, any one or more of the following types of play:

Ok, first of all, once I do something several times it's no longer irregular. In fact it's quite regular. Which means my winnings should only be confiscated the first half dozen times as long as I play my bonus like this every single time.

Also saying that you can't play irregularly and that it includes these few points but is not limited to them isn't exactly a clear statement of what you're allowed or not allowed to do. In fact it's a clear statement that you can add anything you like later on and it doesn't even have to be included in the terms and conditions.

I'm not disputing that the OP's winnings should have been voided. He broke the 30% rule. And I agree with Nifty that a rule is a rule. If you go 1% over this time you'll be expected to go 2% next time. Draw the line and stand behind it. Rules aren't really made to be broken.

But there's nothing I hate worse than vague statements in the rules that basically let the casino to make stuff up as they go along. If you can't figure out how to mix table games and slot games in one bonus without resorting to spirit of the bonus-like statements then keep them separate and stop worrying about people grinding out their roulette winnings playing low variance slot games. If you want to take a bonus and play roulette then take a bonus and play roulette. And when you're done clearing the wage requirement go play all the slots you like. If you set your bonuses up so people have to play this way, you never have a reason to complain.

 

[mattsgame]

In this regard our Terms clearly state:

"The casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings for irregular play. Irregular play includes, but is not limited to, any one or more of the following types of play:

Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% of the value of the bonus before the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met
Using the double-up feature to increase bet values
Even money bets on Sic Bo, craps, baccarat, Wheel of Riches and roulette "



Wim

This is vague and is essentially a FU clause which as far as I am aware is against the CM policy and is open to abuse by the casino and not just the players. The OP broke the terms I have no beef with that at all even if they were 0.1% over.

Not sure what is going on over at FL but they have been going down hill for a little while now.

 

[slotplayer]

Better still....let's allow a 5% buffer for all max bet rules and others involving money.

Then we can read about the complaints from the player who was 6% over and claims they should bend the rules as it's "only 1% over". Last time I checked, the terms of use apply to ALL players, not just those who feel like it.

And while we're at it.....let's have a regular flow of totally negative 25-words-or-less interjections containing no constructive content. Oh wait.....

why is there a max bet rule in the first place?

really should be a "next generation" of online casinos designed to keep up with the current landscape.

 

[skiny]

why is there a max bet rule in the first place?

really should be a "next generation" of online casinos designed to keep up with the current landscape.

There is (or should be) a max bet rule so the casino can offer you a bonus and not go bankrupt in the process. If the max bet and the wage requirement are structured to match the games you're allowed to play, you get extra play time for your money and the casino doesn't lose it's shirt.

The current landscape is a group of players who are tired of having to guess what they're allowed or not allowed to do. Next generation casinos simply need to explicitly state the rules in their terms and conditions and then honor them. Next generation players need to learn to read the terms and conditions and make every effort to follow them.

Although for some casinos and players these things are actually kind of old school.

 

[filterss2]

Hi Wim, let me ask you again. What happened to my Euro palace account deposit money of 150 euro?
This account was locked together with my other accounts at your group. Here is the prove of my deposit.



"Dear Maria,


CONGRATULATIONS: Your Account Has Been Credited With A Bonus

Casino Euro Palace
Account epr0051802012
Credits 150.00
Time/Date 23/08/2013 01:39:35 PM "


On 31.08 I withdrew 649 euro from Europalace account and it was never paid to me.

 

[filterss2]

This is vague and is essentially a FU clause which as far as I am aware is against the CM policy and is open to abuse by the casino and not just the players. The OP broke the terms I have no beef with that at all even if they were 0.1% over.

Not sure what is going on over at FL but they have been going down hill for a little while now.

I broke the rule by 1 cent at Vegas Palms and Europalace. Accept it. At Royal Vegas NO RULES WERE BROKEN by me. Moreover- I made a wagering on slots at Royal Vegas betting 2 euro per spin on average. So now tell me- why does Fortune Lounge confiscates 600 euro winnings when no rules broken at all? Because I broke the maximum bet rule by 1 cent at Vegas Palms? But they punished me for that mistake by taking my winnings at Vegas Palms. What it has to do with my Royal Vegas winnings? These are different casino although they are a part of the same group. They cannot do that, that is unfair. I will use pitch a bitch service if they don't pay me.

 

[KasinoKing]

Hi Wim, let me ask you again. What happened to my Euro palace account deposit money of 150 euro?
This account was locked together with my other accounts at your group. Here is the prove of my deposit.

"Dear Maria,

CONGRATULATIONS: Your Account Has Been Credited With A Bonus

Casino Euro Palace
Account epr0051802012
Credits 150.00
Time/Date 23/08/2013 01:39:35 PM "

On 31.08 I withdrew 649 euro from Europalace account and it was never paid to me.

That e-mail says you were credited with a BONUS - not a Deposit.
So was this a no-deposit bonus?

I broke the rule by 1 cent at Vegas Palms and Europalace. Accept it. At Royal Vegas NO RULES WERE BROKEN by me. Moreover- I made a wagering on slots at Royal Vegas betting 2 euro per spin on average. So now tell me- why does Fortune Lounge confiscates 600 euro winnings when no rules broken at all? Because I broke the maximum bet rule by 1 cent at Vegas Palms? But they punished me for that mistake by taking my winnings at Vegas Palms. What it has to do with my Royal Vegas winnings? These are different casino although they are a part of the same group. They cannot do that, that is unfair. I will use pitch a bitch service if they don't pay me.

FWIW, I 100% agree with you here.
As the group allow you to sign-up and claim welcome bonuses at each casino, then the "bonus issues" should be treated separately.
You should not have your winnings confiscated at the casino(s) where you didn't breach any T&Cs.

If Fortune Lounge can't see how this is unfair and they still refuse to pay out your winnings, then a PAB is the way to go IMO.

KK

 

[filterss2]

That e-mail says you were credited with a BONUS - not a Deposit.
So was this a no-deposit bonus?


FWIW, I 100% agree with you here.
As the group allow you to sign-up and claim welcome bonuses at each casino, then the "bonus issues" should be treated separately.
You should not have your winnings confiscated at the casino(s) where you didn't breach any T&Cs.

If Fortune Lounge can't see how this is unfair and they still refuse to pay out your winnings, then a PAB is the way to go IMO.

KK

No it was deposit match bonus of 150 euro. Below is my Neteller deposit confirmation showing exact time of deposit and the transaction ID number.

----------------------------------------



Dear Maria,

You have successfully transferred funds from your NETELLER account to a registered NETELLER merchant.

The following transaction has been debited from your account.

Transaction details:
Merchant Name: EuroPalace- Seabrook Ltd
Amount: €150.00 EUR
Foreign Exchange Rate: 1.00000000
NETELLER Transaction ID: 189377257970791
Date: Aug 23 11:39

Should you have any questions or feel you have received this email in error, please contact NETELLER Support, available 24 hours a day.

Thank you for choosing NETELLER

--------------------------------------

 

[Borgie]

No it was deposit match bonus of 150 euro. Below is my Neteller deposit confirmation showing exact time of deposit and the transaction ID number.

----------------------------------------



Dear Maria,

You have successfully transferred funds from your NETELLER account to a registered NETELLER merchant.

The following transaction has been debited from your account.

Transaction details:
Merchant Name: EuroPalace- Seabrook Ltd
Amount: €150.00 EUR
Foreign Exchange Rate: 1.00000000
NETELLER Transaction ID: 189377257970791
Date: Aug 23 11:39

Should you have any questions or feel you have received this email in error, please contact NETELLER Support, available 24 hours a day.

Thank you for choosing NETELLER

--------------------------------------

I would PAB , this thread is not getting you anywhere. Get Max involved . read the PAB rules carefully and don't post once you have submitted PAB.

 

[MisterBJ]

That e-mail says you were credited with a BONUS - not a Deposit.
So was this a no-deposit bonus?


FWIW, I 100% agree with you here.
As the group allow you to sign-up and claim welcome bonuses at each casino, then the "bonus issues" should be treated separately.
You should not have your winnings confiscated at the casino(s) where you didn't breach any T&Cs.

If Fortune Lounge can't see how this is unfair and they still refuse to pay out your winnings, then a PAB is the way to go IMO.
KK

I agree 100% and I doubt if this case was with 32red. They would have confiscated the OP winnings. This is really a petty issue, in which a warning could have been given. Though the OP went over the terms by 1%. In fact MG has a setting to prevent this from happening. Why wasn't it used? Petty issues like this is what makes FL look bad. They are starting to look more and more like a Casino Rewards outfit.

The accredited list here is a good thing, and the best I've seen anywhere on the internet. But sometimes even the best accredited list may have a casino or two. One might wanna consider avoiding.

 

[Firehawk]

Hi filterss2

Apart from violating the 30% term on some of the casinos, you displayed irregular betting across all your casino accounts. The pattern you followed on all of your accounts was one of large bet sizes on Roulette and switching to very small bets on slots in order to meet the wagering requirements. This includes your Royal Vegas account and we regard this as a form of irregular betting.

In effect what we have done is to confiscate your winnings only. In the case of your Fortune Room and Platinum Play account, you had no winnings and played out your deposit.

In this regard our Terms clearly state:

"The casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings for irregular play. Irregular play includes, but is not limited to, any one or more of the following types of play:

Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% of the value of the bonus before the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met
Using the double-up feature to increase bet values
Even money bets on Sic Bo, craps, baccarat, Wheel of Riches and roulette "

A refund of the deposits has been arranged and will be in your Neteller account later today.

Your accounts are now locked in terms of our deregistration term which states that:

"We may refuse to register you as a Player or elect to deregister and exclude you or suspend you as a Player from the Casino at any time if we deem that your participation at the Casino is, shall be or has been previously, in any way not for personal entertainment [i.e. professional], fraudulent, illegal or that your participation is or has been abusive, collusive or irregular in any way."

Regards

Wim

You know most casinos wouldn't even bother responding but its true what Wim is saying a breach is a breach and the method used for wagering is Advantage Play Style , Exceeded 30 Percent on multiple occasions , and yeah might just wanna chalk that one up to experience there Player.
Obviously your feelin bad bout the money but you got a rep at least willin to deal with ya which is great I feel doin a good job Wim .

 

[slotplayer]

There is (or should be) a max bet rule so the casino can offer you a bonus and not go bankrupt in the process. If the max bet and the wage requirement are structured to match the games you're allowed to play, you get extra play time for your money and the casino doesn't lose it's shirt.

The current landscape is a group of players who are tired of having to guess what they're allowed or not allowed to do. Next generation casinos simply need to explicitly state the rules in their terms and conditions and then honor them. Next generation players need to learn to read the terms and conditions and make every effort to follow them.

Although for some casinos and players these things are actually kind of old school.

its not true, why do land casinos make bonus money work, they don't go bankrupt. the reason it works for land based casinos is they limit the slots/denoms it can be claimed in programmatically thus no need for a max-bet rule or wagering requirement.

The probem is the bonuses changed over time and the software has not been updated to compensate for the changes, thus the laundry list of rules.

The 'next generation' of casino software needs to program some built-in fail safes limiting the bet size on bonuses and not allow players to even attempt to launch a restricted game when a bonus is active. That's the fair way.

Fail safes and preventive measures are all around us in every day life if one cares to look.

Even my coffee pot shuts off after an hour taking the matter out of my hands.

 

[skiny]

its not true, why do land casinos make bonus money work, they don't go bankrupt. the reason it works for land based casinos is they limit the slots/denoms it can be claimed in programmatically thus no need for a max-bet rule or wagering requirement.

The probem is the bonuses changed over time and the software has not been updated to compensate for the changes, thus the laundry list of rules.

The 'next generation' of casino software needs to program some built-in fail safes limiting the bet size on bonuses and not allow players to even attempt to launch a restricted game when a bonus is active. That's the fair way.

Fail safes and preventive measures are all around us in every day life if one cares to look.

Even my coffee pot shuts off after an hour taking the matter out of my hands.

You're missing the fact that a max needs to be structured with the wage requirement and the games you're allowed to play. It's a combination of all three. This means with slot games and the right wage requirement a max bet could be infinity.

To be honest, I've never been given "bonus money" at a land based casino so you're asking the wrong person. I've claimed comps on occasion but even that's rare because by the time I build up a few dollars on the card I only end up walking away and leaving it one of the machines.

I fully agree that the software should be updated so people can't play games they're not supposed to and wager sizes are automatically capped but the people running these casinos know this isn't the case. They know when people take bonuses the software does nothing to prevent them from betting whatever they like on any game they like which is why they need to state specifically what people are allowed to do and what they 're not.

Being specific should work in the casino's favour. The only time it doesn't is when they want to pick and choose when they decide to pay people. If you have a specific set of rules there can be no mistake and there can be no argument. This is what the casino should be trying to avoid. All it takes is one vague statement to cause a dispute. Disputes are never good for a casino because you will never get 100% support from these public debates if the broken term is open to interpretation. Fraud is a different story.

It makes absolutely no difference how a player plays a bonus. Irregular play, spirit of the bonus, advantage play, bonus abuse or anything similar is no excuse not to pay because they're open ended statements that can be interpreted any way the casino sees fit. People may agree that betting an entire bonus in one roulette spin is advantage play. The problem is what if you bet 90% of it? 75%? 50%? I'm sure if you bet 15% people would all agree that it wasn't advantage play and then you have this entire grey area in between with no way to know if you're playing within the spirit of the bonus or not.

If you don't want people to play this way, set a maximum bet for table games. Problem solved.

 

[chuchu59]

Skiny is right. Casinos can set a maximum bet for table games and some MG casinos actually sets it automatically when a bonus is played. Say Red Flush, they only allow a max of $10 per hand at Baccarat until the bonus is cleared. I have no idea why FL doesn't do something similar. Casinos have got to realize this is the entertainment business and where the software allows them , they should provide a hassle-free environment. Some casinos just don't understand and simply wait on an opportunity to pounce and deny winnings when players knowingly or accidentally bet a portion of the bonus over and above what they allow in the Ts and Cs. While they can claim the player broke the rules they cannot say that they had done everything possible to prevent these things from happening. MG software can limit bets on table games or others I presume whilst a bonus is in force. Its just that it isn't widely used for reasons I can only speculate on.

 

[pianoman]

Gets funnier by the minute

Sorry, I still don't buy it.
Newbie at CM forum uses the term "confiscated" and a few outraged posters here immediately cry "foul!"
OP reports locked out - complains, gets explanation, knows the score.
Weeks later contacts the rep here, then flames Fortune Lounge (whose rep isn't obliged to provide the rest of us with explanations BTW)
Meanwhile any of us can plainly read the rules as laid out at F.L (they're unchanged since early 2012).
Wim outlines precise manner of betting; one imagines OP auto piloting their way back to rspective banks to withdraw soon as.
Perhaps new player clumsiness made it all a bit too obvious, hey.
Did RV or Wim ever say that player's deposits were confiscated?

And Euro Palace August 23? Don't remember them becoming part of FL until September, actually!

But anyway, wondered about player reports at any other forums?
Googled "Royal Vegas takes my deposits and winnings"
Something similar a month earlier -
"royal vegas casino won't pay me my winnings" whips up enthusiastic support from others (...apparently)
Some abbreviated snippets below (not including RV's comprehensive responses)
Anything in other posters' comments strike you as sorta fishy?
Ending characters as inserted by them, highlighted here by ME...

connors 10th July 2013 ...i would like to know how they can just let you keep making deposits and keep our money yet when you try to withdraw close your account and keep your deposits and winnings xxx
angry 07/14/2013...why is there no checks done before a person deposits to stop this happening. maybe like the woman said it just a way to con money out of people, personally i think you should pay the poor woman xx
private inv 07/14/2013...these casino,s should not be allowed to do this to people why the hell has nothing been done about this scam x
it goes on all the time and should be stopped x
empire 07/14/2013 ... they was quick enough to take your money then block your account when you tried to withdraw. i would never play at a casion that treat people like that xx
connors 07/16/2013...its typical you turn it around to blame the players for you to be able to keep our deposits !!!!!!!!!!!!
connors 07/16/2013...what gives them the right to keep this money if you cannot play at there site x i did consider playing here but wont now x
connors 07/16/2013...why i contacted support would i have done this is i was going to comit fraud or knowingly lose my money !!!!
connors 07/16/2013...no right to take my 1st deposits or the other 2 that i made i am not asking for my £1000 winnings just my dep back x
ex royal v 07/16/2013...i think because there a big casino site can get away with it by saying we comitted fraud.anyone reading this dont play here they will take your deposits and keep taking them just dont try to withdraw any money !!!!!!!!
connors 07/17/2013 ...you are a bloody rip off site and i will make sure i make it know !!!!!!!
private inv 07/17/2013 ...i personally would never play at a site who treat people this way X


so yeah royal your really gonna get it from me an all my army of fans big time x
OOOOPS xxxx !!! xx !!!!! i mean !!!!!!! x

 

[skiny]

Sorry, I still don't buy it.
Newbie at CM forum uses the term "confiscated" and a few outraged posters here immediately cry "foul!"
OP reports locked out - complains, gets explanation, knows the score.
Weeks later contacts the rep here, then flames Fortune Lounge (whose rep isn't obliged to provide the rest of us with explanations BTW)
Meanwhile any of us can plainly read the rules as laid out at F.L (they're unchanged since early 2012).
Wim outlines precise manner of betting; one imagines OP auto piloting their way back to rspective banks to withdraw soon as.
Perhaps new player clumsiness made it all a bit too obvious, hey.
Did RV or Wim ever say that player's deposits were confiscated?

And Euro Palace August 23? Don't remember them becoming part of FL until September, actually!

But anyway, wondered about player reports at any other forums?

Which is the part you don't buy? The OP admitted to breaking the terms of the bonus. The rep stated that the winnings were confiscated but the deposits have been returned. I scrolled back through the thread. Maybe I missed but I didn't see any "outrage." As for the rep not being obligated to offer any public response to the complaint, that may be true but ignoring these things isn't usually the best idea. There's not much point the reps having a membership if they refuse to join the conversations.

Googling conversations from other forums and pasting them here is usually frowned upon. I can't really comment on that conversation because I don't belong to that forum. I would have had to have been a part of the entire conversation to have an opinion on it.

From what I can see at this point, the confiscated winnings are no longer an issue. The only real issue I have are these kinds of statements -

Hi filterss2

It is abundantly clear to us that you were conducting irregular betting on our casinos.

"Irregular betting" is a completely meaningless term.

The casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings for irregular play. Irregular play includes, but is not limited to, any one or more of the following types of play:

Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% of the value of the bonus before the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met
Using the double-up feature to increase bet values
Even money bets on Sic Bo, craps, baccarat, Wheel of Riches and roulette "[/I]

A refund of the deposits has been arranged and will be in your Neteller account later today.

Your accounts are now locked in terms of our deregistration term which states that:

"We may refuse to register you as a Player or elect to deregister and exclude you or suspend you as a Player from the Casino at any time if we deem that your participation at the Casino is, shall be or has been previously, in any way not for personal entertainment [i.e. professional], fraudulent, illegal or that your participation is or has been abusive, collusive or irregular in any way."

You can't say things like "terms that can be breached are not limited to what we've stated in the terms and conditions." Doesn't work that way. Either it's a rule or it isn't. You can't make one up later.
There's no such thing as a professional roulette or slots player.
There's no such thing as abusing a bonus.

As far as I'm concerned the casino is lucky the OP actually broke a real term and not one of these vague statements. Otherwise this would be a thread full of people telling the casino to pay up instead of a few members discussing how ridiculous these terms are.

 

[pianoman]

conversation?

"I can't really comment on that conversation because I don't belong to that forum. I would have had to have been a part of the entire conversation to have an opinion on it."


Huh?
Oh.
Right.

 

[homerbert]

I am still interesting, why OP can not take winnings from another casino in this group. He did not break any rules there, its pure winnings. Or if you bet 1% more than allowed on any casino of group, they will thing you are bonus abuser and roullete pro? And did not pay at all casinos?
Come on FL, i will probably told you news for you, roullete always have house edge, and roullete pro players cannot exist
Actually, i am imagined how casino rewards reads this thread and smile Do not know why

 

[chayton]

Personally, I think the OP should PAB as someone else suggested. IMO a legitimate player would jump at the chance to get Max's help to get their money back. So what's the holdup?

 

[filterss2]

My all three deposits were returned to me. However, I insist that my Royal Vegas winnnings of 584 euro must also
be paid to me since I did not violate any casino terms and conditions while playing there. My maximum bet
there was 40e (27% of 150 bonus I received). The wagering was done on slots- with average bet 2 euro on slots.
There is no any legitimate reason to take those winnings from me.

 

[Borgie]

My all three deposits were returned to me. However, I insist that my Royal Vegas winnnings of 584 euro must also
be paid to me since I did not violate any casino terms and conditions while playing there. My maximum bet
there was 40e (27% of 150 bonus I received). The wagering was done on slots- with average bet 2 euro on slots.
There is no any legitimate reason to take those winnings from me.

Sorry OP you have been told to PAB that is the only option left open to you . If you do not you wlll get nothing . You may still get nothing even if you do but at least try amd coming on here "insisting" in this thread will get you precisely nowhere.

 

[dunover]

Well, the one you didn't break the bonus rules at was 1/3 of the accounts you had, and they have every right to 'associate' accounts. You now have your deposits back, if you feel you should have the winnings too from the first casino, which I do understand, then PAB as borgie says. You can't get any further whingeing on here now.

 

[filterss2]

Well, the one you didn't break the bonus rules at was 1/3 of the accounts you had, and they have every right to 'associate' accounts. You now have your deposits back, if you feel you should have the winnings too from the first casino, which I do understand, then PAB as borgie says. You can't get any further whingeing on here now.

I am not a bonus abuser. You cannot abuse anything with 1 cent. It was a clear mistake for which I paid by losing my winnings at Vegas Palms and Euro Palace (about 720 euro in winnings).
They did not have any right to associate my 1 euro cent mistake at Vegas Palms and EuroPalace with not paying my winnings at Royal Vegas.
I will pitch a bitch if I don't hear anything from Wim by the end of the day.

 

[chuchu59]

I am not a bonus abuser. You cannot abuse anything with 1 cent. It was a clear mistake for which I paid by losing my winnings at Vegas Palms and Euro Palace (about 720 euro in winnings).
They did not have any right to associate my 1 euro cent mistake at Vegas Palms and EuroPalace with not paying my winnings at Royal Vegas.
I will pitch a bitch if I don't hear anything from Wim by the end of the day.

Forget the 1 cent argument. If you went over the max allowed that's it regardless of whether its 1 cent or a hundred dollars. Yes, logically I cant say its abuse but it did break the terms whether you like it or not. Its up to them to decide whether they are willing to waive the requirement for you on this occasion. However, given the high profile of this issue I am inclined to think they wont make it an exception as others who are 2 cents over, fifty cents over and a dollar over will be queuing at their door requesting exceptions.

 

[skiny]

My all three deposits were returned to me. However, I insist that my Royal Vegas winnnings of 584 euro must also
be paid to me since I did not violate any casino terms and conditions while playing there. My maximum bet
there was 40e (27% of 150 bonus I received). The wagering was done on slots- with average bet 2 euro on slots.
There is no any legitimate reason to take those winnings from me.

If there is no rule against taking this bonus at all three casinos and no rule stating that these bonuses are not separate entities then voiding wins on one bonus should not void wins on any of the others. In fact voiding wins on one bonus shouldn't void wins at another even if they're at the same casino.

Many people have suggested you PAB in this case. Take their advice.

 

[filterss2]

Forget the 1 cent argument. If you went over the max allowed that's it regardless of whether its 1 cent or a hundred dollars. Yes, logically I cant say its abuse but it did break the terms whether you like it or not. Its up to them to decide whether they are willing to waive the requirement for you on this occasion. However, given the high profile of this issue I am inclined to think they wont make it an exception as others who are 2 cents over, fifty cents over and a dollar over will be queuing at their door requesting exceptions.

I made 1 cent mistake and broke the terms at ONE casino and they confiscate the money at the OTHER where no terms were broken.
That is my argument and not 1 cent. 1 cent argument only stresses the fact that it was a mistake and not an intentional abuse
of any kind.
Let's imagine you play at 2 casinos of any group. You win 1000 at one. But at the second you make a mistake and bet 1 euro more than allowed limit. Then casino confiscates BOTH casinos' wins from you.
Do you find this normal practice? Will you accept this?

 

[fortunelounge]

filterss2

The issue is not only about breaching the 30% term and whether you did it on one or all of your accounts. All of your play on all of your accounts was irregular whether you exceeded the max bet limit or not.

You displayed the same pattern across all of your accounts which shows that you knew exactly what you were doing and that you were intent on doing it on every account.

Your statement that you wagered an average of €2 on slots is totally incorrect. It is much lower than that.

You are trying to create the impression that you were innocent and made an honest mistake but the reality is that your behaviour across all of your accounts shows something completely different. If this happened, say, on only one of your accounts or you exceeded the max bet only once we would have regarded it as an honest mistake and we would not be where we are with this now.

It is also co-incidental (perhaps) that you registered your accounts in the same time frame as 48 other players who used exactly the same methods, playing the exact same Roulette game to generate wins and then immediately switched to playing slots at unnaturally low bets in order to meet the wagering requirements.

Please PAB.

Regards

Wim

 

[filterss2]

filterss2

The issue is not only about breaching the 30% term and whether you did it on one or all of your accounts. All of your play on all of your accounts was irregular whether you exceeded the max bet limit or not.

You displayed the same pattern across all of your accounts which shows that you knew exactly what you were doing and that you were intent on doing it on every account.

Your statement that you wagered an average of €2 on slots is totally incorrect. It is much lower than that.

You are trying to create the impression that you were innocent and made an honest mistake but the reality is that your behaviour across all of your accounts shows something completely different. If this happened, say, on only one of your accounts or you exceeded the max bet only once we would have regarded it as an honest mistake and we would not be where we are with this now.

It is also co-incidental (perhaps) that you registered your accounts in the same time frame as 48 other players who used exactly the same methods, playing the exact same Roulette game to generate wins and then immediately switched to playing slots at unnaturally low bets in order to meet the wagering requirements.

Please PAB.

Regards

Wim

I repeat that 99% of my wagering at Royal Vegas was 1.91 per spin! Please, recheck it and stop accusing me of lying.
Second, you tell that I played the same style at all of my accounts. What is wrong with that? Am I obliged
to play totally different at every casino account that I have? I thought that strategy will bring me luck:
I won at Vegas Palms with it, then I tried it on other accounts. What so strange?
Also you want to say that by exceeding allowed betting by 1 (ONE) euro cent I was trying to get an unfair advantage over your casinos? You say
it was not a mistake of not reading the terms but an intentional plan of abuse? Come on- one euro cent abuse plan? Are you serious?
So now you confiscate my legitimate winnings for the "wrong pattern" of play? And what is it? Where can I read about it
at your website? Take my play pattern at ROyal Vegas and tell me what rules I abused by it? Betting 27% of the bonus, then making wagering of 2
euro on slots. Explain me what was wrong with it, please.

I will certainly PAB today.

 

[dunover]

filterss2

The issue is not only about breaching the 30% term and whether you did it on one or all of your accounts. All of your play on all of your accounts was irregular whether you exceeded the max bet limit or not.

You displayed the same pattern across all of your accounts which shows that you knew exactly what you were doing and that you were intent on doing it on every account.

Your statement that you wagered an average of €2 on slots is totally incorrect. It is much lower than that.

You are trying to create the impression that you were innocent and made an honest mistake but the reality is that your behaviour across all of your accounts shows something completely different. If this happened, say, on only one of your accounts or you exceeded the max bet only once we would have regarded it as an honest mistake and we would not be where we are with this now.

It is also co-incidental (perhaps) that you registered your accounts in the same time frame as 48 other players who used exactly the same methods, playing the exact same Roulette game to generate wins and then immediately switched to playing slots at unnaturally low bets in order to meet the wagering requirements.

Please PAB.

Regards

Wim

This is what I said a few of my posts back - looks like a case of collusion. QED

 

[Nifty29]

I repeat that 99% of my wagering at Royal Vegas was 1.91 per spin! Please, recheck it and stop accusing me of lying.
Second, you tell that I played the same style at all of my accounts. What is wrong with that? Am I obliged
to play totally different at every casino account that I have? I thought that strategy will bring me luck:
I won at Vegas Palms with it, then I tried it on other accounts. What so strange?
Also you want to say that by exceeding allowed betting by 1 (ONE) euro cent I was trying to get an unfair advantage over your casinos? You say
it was not a mistake of not reading the terms but an intentional plan of abuse? Come on- one euro cent abuse plan? Are you serious?
So now you confiscate my legitimate winnings for the "wrong pattern" of play? And what is it? Where can I read about it
at your website? Take my play pattern at ROyal Vegas and tell me what rules I abused by it? Betting 27% of the bonus, then making wagering of 2
euro on slots. Explain me what was wrong with it, please.

I will certainly PAB today.

Look.

You're not dealing with a bunch of clueless interns here.

We KNOW what you were up to....YOU know what you were up to...so let's cut the "innocent newb" crap. You and your 47 buddies tried to AP in a group at a well-respected and long time operator. You got caught. Tough.

You and your buddies made several obvious mistakes. I won't help you by pointing them out.

So where are your 47 pals? Did they lose their winnings too? I'd say you're being the "test case" for the group I.e. if you succeed, the other 47 will come out of the woodwork.

Now, I do think that "bonus abuse" doesn't exist. I'm a stickler for the rules....you break them, then too bad so sad. In addition, I don't necessarily agree with FLs terms in this regard....HOWEVER...and here's the kicker...they are THERE and you AGREED to be bound by them. You AGREED that FL could void any and all of your winnings at their discretion, based on non-specific events. You said "OK...you can take my winnings and close my accounts whenever you want"...and now you're coming here to COMPLAIN about it?? Really??

If you don't want to be subject to vague terms, then DON'T PLAY. You knowingly skated on the edge of the max bet term to attempt to AP the casino, and got caught. You actually took a double gamble. You lost.

Looking forward to the PAB. Remember, Max will see EVERYTHING the casino has, including your connection to other players. Bring it on.

 

[filterss2]

This is what I said a few of my posts back - looks like a case of collusion. QED

Yes, at the days I played at Fortune Lounge (and I played there during a whole month period) - 48 more players ALL OVER THE WORLD (from Amazonia to Australia) also
played roulette and slots there. That is something fantastic and impossible. A clear case of collusion. Can you take this funny argument seriously? It seems like
you do. Actually I was only accused of WRONG PLAY PATTERN. If you agree to this- say that. No need to support all kind funny accusations.

 

[filterss2]

Look.

You're not dealing with a bunch of clueless interns here.

We KNOW what you were up to....YOU know what you were up to...so let's cut the "innocent newb" crap. You and your 47 buddies tried to AP in a group at a well-respected and long time operator. You got caught. Tough.

You and your buddies made several obvious mistakes. I won't help you by pointing them out.

So where are your 47 pals? Did they lose their winnings too? I'd say you're being the "test case" for the group I.e. if you succeed, the other 47 will come out of the woodwork.

Now, I do think that "bonus abuse" doesn't exist. I'm a stickler for the rules....you break them, then too bad so sad. In addition, I don't necessarily agree with FLs terms in this regard....HOWEVER...and here's the kicker...they are THERE and you AGREED to be bound by them. You AGREED that FL could void any and all of your winnings at their discretion, based on non-specific events. You said "OK...you can take my winnings and close my accounts whenever you want"...and now you're coming here to COMPLAIN about it?? Really??

If you don't want to be subject to vague terms, then DON'T PLAY. You knowingly skated on the edge of the max bet term to attempt to AP the casino, and got caught. You actually took a double gamble. You lost.

Looking forward to the PAB. Remember, Max will see EVERYTHING the casino has, including your connection to other players. Bring it on.

Me and my buddies? At different circumstanes I would take you to the court for these accusations. You know what I was up to? Yes my plan was
to win millions by betting 1 euro cent more than allowed. It gave me a huge advantage. And my play pattern- it is the most abusive ever- roulette and slots. The rarest casino games. I think I will stick to the Keno now
in order not to look very suspicious for casino managers.

P.s. I stop posting from now on until my PAB is reviwed by Casinomeister. Regards

 

[dunover]

Yes, at the days I played at Fortune Lounge (and I played there during a whole month period) - 48 more players ALL OVER THE WORLD (from Amazonia to Australia) also
played roulette and slots there. That is something fantastic and impossible. A clear case of collusion. Can you take this funny argument seriously? It seems like
you do. Actually I was only accused of WRONG PLAY PATTERN. If you agree to this- say that. No need to support all kind funny accusations.

Look, whether you know the rest personally in neither here nor there, because collusion from the casino's point of view can also mean for example, that somebody posted on FB or a casino forum something about FL's bonus offers and in the same post or a response to it somebody pointed out how to AP the offer. So, tens of players tried it in a close time frame including yourself. All following the same strategy. FL flagged it, as they would. You was caught. I know you can't respond now due to PAB process and as I just said it doesn't necessarily mean you are personally known to others in the group, but the evidence from FL's side must look pretty damning. Good luck with your PAB but whatever the outcome monetarily as it stands you have lost ZILCH and just seem peeved to have been caught and not got your profit.

 

[sapit222]

Me and my buddies? At different circumstanes I would take you to the court for these accusations. You know what I was up to? Yes my plan was
to win millions by betting 1 euro cent more than allowed. It gave me a huge advantage. And my play pattern- it is the most abusive ever- roulette and slots. The rarest casino games. I think I will stick to the Keno now
in order not to look very suspicious for casino managers.

P.s. I stop posting from now on until my PAB is reviwed by Casinomeister. Regards

Good your doing a PAB.
This thread was getting a lil bit long & nothing was happening...

 

[Nifty29]

Me and my buddies? At different circumstanes I would take you to the court for these accusations. You know what I was up to? Yes my plan was
to win millions by betting 1 euro cent more than allowed. It gave me a huge advantage. And my play pattern- it is the most abusive ever- roulette and slots. The rarest casino games. I think I will stick to the Keno now
in order not to look very suspicious for casino managers.

P.s. I stop posting from now on until my PAB is reviwed by Casinomeister. Regards

Take me to court? LMAO

What for? Saying you have friends?

The more you post, the more obvious it is that you're not as "innocent" as you say.

 

[Borgie]

Take me to court? LMAO

What for? Saying you have friends?

The more you post, the more obvious it is that you're not as "innocent" as you say.

Indeedeeee!! This is obviously why the PAB has been stalled and he has lost nothing as all deposits returned . I am wasting my typing finger here !! Thanks Nifty for summing it all up so nicely

 

[maphesto]

I find this interesting, I don't care if there are 500 irregular betting players using the same method at the same time. Everyone of those players are supposed to be treated as individuals as long as they are not proven to be using same computer, same household etc. If they can proove they are legit by ID, then pay!

Broken terms at two casinos don't give FL right to confiscate winnings at the third. IF a casino don't want a player to try this kind of trick, then don't offer those bonuses! It's that simple.

I definately hate both fraudulent players AND "spirit of bonus-shit" kind of explanations from casinos.

Thank you!

 

[filterss2]

Indeedeeee!! This is obviously why the PAB has been stalled and he has lost nothing as all deposits returned . I am wasting my typing finger here !! Thanks Nifty for summing it all up so nicely

That is not true. I also lost my deposits at Platinum and Fortune Room casino. Total 250 euro. So my
total balance after this unhappy encounter with Fortune Lounge casinos is minus 250. And I actually won more than 900 euro there.
Good business for casino, very bad for players like me. I dreamt of buying a good present for my daughter- now nothing. One cent mistake and you get confiscated everything
at all your casino accounts - at those where you made mistake and those where you did NOT. And there are people who find this to be FAIR.

Nifty, you are not the one who is responsible for his words. I prefer to ignore your unbased accusations from now on.

 

[filterss2]

I find this interesting, I don't care if there are 500 irregular betting players using the same method at the same time. Everyone of those players are supposed to be treated as individuals as long as they are not proven to be using same computer, same household etc. If they can proove they are legit by ID, then pay!

Broken terms at two casinos don't give FL right to confiscate winnings at the third. IF a casino don't want a player to try this kind of trick, then don't offer those bonuses! It's that simple.

I definately hate both fraudulent players AND "spirit of bonus-shit" kind of explanations from casinos.

Thank you!

My documents were fully verified by Fortune Lounge. I even had to send them all kind of additional documents - like a photo of me holding my pasport and my bill next to my face.

 

[KasinoKing]

I find this interesting, I don't care if there are 500 irregular betting players using the same method at the same time. Everyone of those players are supposed to be treated as individuals as long as they are not proven to be using same computer, same household etc. If they can proove they are legit by ID, then pay!

Broken terms at two casinos don't give FL right to confiscate winnings at the third. IF a casino don't want a player to try this kind of trick, then don't offer those bonuses! It's that simple.

I definately hate both fraudulent players AND "spirit of bonus-shit" kind of explanations from casinos.

Thank you!

Amen!

The other thing I hate is when casinos (like nearly all of them) are happy to be promoted on affiliate websites (like BB et al.) where players are told EXACTLY how to maximise their chances of profiting from the casinos bonuses, but when they follow those instructions the casinos come out with this "Spirit of the Bonus" BS and confiscate their winnings...

And of course, the best thing of all for the casinos is when players try these strategies and LOSE - the casinos NEVER refund the deposits due to "irregular play". It makes me sick.

KK

 

[vinylweatherman]

Amen!

The other thing I hate is when casinos (like nearly all of them) are happy to be promoted on affiliate websites (like BB et al.) where players are told EXACTLY how to maximise their chances of profiting from the casinos bonuses, but when they follow those instructions the casinos come out with this "Spirit of the Bonus" BS and confiscate their winnings...

And of course, the best thing of all for the casinos is when players try these strategies and LOSE - the casinos NEVER refund the deposits due to "irregular play". It makes me sick.

KK

I think this is EXACTLY where this has come from. The FL affiliate program have allowed BB to make commission through driving their obviously AP oriented traffic to the casinos, and it seems there is some heavy promotion of AP-ing the FL group due to the favourable nature of their boni. There are many positive testimonies, even from what are clearly multi-accounters who maintain that even though they often get busted, they still get away with it often enough for FL to remain a viable proposition.

A group of 48 is similar to the size of group that was revealed to be involved in another case. It could even be the SAME group, but with a different "front man" making the specimen complaint.

Ideally, FL should be looking at the trail, and if it turns out these groups are all being driven through a common affiliate, they should check how that site promotes them, and if it promotes the use of AP, gnoming, fraud, etc, they should summarily yank the affiliate's contract. It's hardly the kind of traffic they will miss.

 

[chuchu59]

That is not true. I also lost my deposits at Platinum and Fortune Room casino. Total 250 euro. So my
total balance after this unhappy encounter with Fortune Lounge casinos is minus 250. And I actually won more than 900 euro there.
Good business for casino, very bad for players like me. I dreamt of buying a good present for my daughter- now nothing. One cent mistake and you get confiscated everything
at all your casino accounts - at those where you made mistake and those where you did NOT. And there are people who find this to be FAIR.

Nifty, you are not the one who is responsible for his words. I prefer to ignore your unbased accusations from now on.

If I am correct you only lost your deposits through play at PP and FR. They didn't get confiscated otherwise FL needs to be hauled in to give an explanation. Now that your deposits at other casinos were returned you now deem it opportune to try to coerce the casino to pay you those winnings where you won after breaking the terms. I agree with some posters here that just because FL is a group it does not allow them to legitimately confiscate all winnings across the board. If you broke the rules at Royal Vegas confiscation f winnings should only take place there. Winnings at say Vegas Palms or 7Sultans should remain intact.

As I said before once you break the rules there is no difference as to whether its 1 cent or a few hundred dollars. The rule stemmed from preventing bonus abuse but once set any amount over the prescribed% means breaking the rules and they cant just make an exception for you otherwise the 2 cents and 3 cents players will cry foul.

As a good father you should have reserved some money to buy a present for your daughter. A single deposit less at any of the few FL casinos would have bought her something really nice. Don't make the same mistake for X'mas. The 'sympathy' card wont work here.

 

[chuchu59]

filterss2

The issue is not only about breaching the 30% term and whether you did it on one or all of your accounts. All of your play on all of your accounts was irregular whether you exceeded the max bet limit or not.

You displayed the same pattern across all of your accounts which shows that you knew exactly what you were doing and that you were intent on doing it on every account.

Your statement that you wagered an average of €2 on slots is totally incorrect. It is much lower than that.

You are trying to create the impression that you were innocent and made an honest mistake but the reality is that your behaviour across all of your accounts shows something completely different. If this happened, say, on only one of your accounts or you exceeded the max bet only once we would have regarded it as an honest mistake and we would not be where we are with this now.

It is also co-incidental (perhaps) that you registered your accounts in the same time frame as 48 other players who used exactly the same methods, playing the exact same Roulette game to generate wins and then immediately switched to playing slots at unnaturally low bets in order to meet the wagering requirements.

Please PAB.

Regards

Wim

So Wim, what is irregular play? Play that you don't like or what? Either you spell out what play is not allowed or you need to elaborate on your statement. Right now the OP must be having an irregular heartbeat lol.

 

[maxd]

@ filterss2 : you have a PAB on the table and you know the rules. Post again before the PAB is done and your PAB is toast. See the PAB FAQ for details (link is in my signature block).

 

[Jufo]

filterss2

The issue is not only about breaching the 30% term and whether you did it on one or all of your accounts. All of your play on all of your accounts was irregular whether you exceeded the max bet limit or not.

You displayed the same pattern across all of your accounts which shows that you knew exactly what you were doing and that you were intent on doing it on every account.

Dear Wim. Your title says that you are Accredited Casino Representative. This means that you must be aware of the standards for accredited casinos. Here are the standards for you to review:

Link Outdated / Removed

I see from your posts that you have violated at least two of these accreditation standards:

- Must not disqualify any player from a payout if terms & conditions are met, except for situations of fraud (multiple-accounts, bogus ID documents, chargebacks, etc.,).
- Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C violations.

Could you explain why you are making statements that violate Casinomeister's Standards for Accredited Casinos? I am also intrigued to know how maxd and Bryan will react to these violations.

You are trying to create the impression that you were innocent and made an honest mistake but the reality is that your behaviour across all of your accounts shows something completely different. If this happened, say, on only one of your accounts or you exceeded the max bet only once we would have regarded it as an honest mistake and we would not be where we are with this now.

It is always the player's prerogative to play in a profitable manner. You can kick them out, but only after paying up if no concrete terms were violated. Offering a bonus is not obligatory so don't offer one if you can't tolerate someone beating you.

 

[slotplayer]

"spirit of the bonus", "irregular play". "advantage play", this is made up bs to weasel out of paying.

 

[dunover]

Dear Wim. Your title says that you are Accredited Casino Representative. This means that you must be aware of the standards for accredited casinos. Here are the standards for you to review:

Link Outdated / Removed

I see from your posts that you have violated at least two of these accreditation standards:

- Must not disqualify any player from a payout if terms & conditions are met, except for situations of fraud (multiple-accounts, bogus ID documents, chargebacks, etc.,).
- Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C violations.

Could you explain why you are making statements that violate Casinomeister's Standards for Accredited Casinos? I am also intrigued to know how maxd and Bryan will react to these violations.



It is always the player's prerogative to play in a profitable manner. You can kick them out, but only after paying up if no concrete terms were violated. Offering a bonus is not obligatory so don't offer one if you can't tolerate someone beating you.

Well terms and conditions were NOT met on most of his accounts, he admits that himself.

Same goes for the second part of your CM accredited terms quote:
Was not vague as terms clearly specified '30% or greater' which player exceeded, and he had multiple accounts at the group.

As I see it FL have not violated the accredited terms.

The player wants his cake and to eat it.

 

[Jufo]

Well terms and conditions were NOT met on most of his accounts, he admits that himself.

Same goes for the second part of your CM accredited terms quote:
Was not vague as terms clearly specified '30% or greater' which player exceeded, and he had multiple accounts at the group.

As I see it FL have not violated the accredited terms.

The player wants his cake and to eat it.

You seem to have missed that he didn't violate any terms at Royal Vegas and "irregular play" (in direct violation of accreditation standards) was the reasoning given by the rep for this action. In fact the rep admitted that the 30% bet rule was not actually the real reason for confiscation, even though that is the only valid thing they can stand behind.

I disagree with you: It's the casino who wants his cake and to eat it here.

 

[maphesto]

Well terms and conditions were NOT met on most of his accounts, he admits that himself.

Same goes for the second part of your CM accredited terms quote:
Was not vague as terms clearly specified '30% or greater' which player exceeded, and he had multiple accounts at the group.

As I see it FL have not violated the accredited terms.

The player wants his cake and to eat it.

The player admits his fault at two of the casinos and he rightfully is arguing about the third one where he did not break any rule at all.

It is not forbidden to have multiple accounts at one and the same group. And as already is said here, Euro Palace wasn't even in the same group at the time... From Wim:

Hi

Yes, we are proud to announce that Euro Palace will be part of the Fortune Lounge Group as from 1 October.

We are looking forward to welcoming the valued Euro Palace players into our fold and players will enjoy a month of incredible giveaways, fantastic promotions and great tournaments..

Regards

Wim

Jufo said the thing with the cake...absolutely true. The FL group here are creating win-win situations.