Recipe for making a bad bonus

[all4greed]

Went to Tradition Casino's website since I had read here that they (supposedly) pay in 2 days and saw a decent 17x new player offer. Of course, that didn't show up on my personal promotions. However, this gem was waiting for me. I have never seen a bonus that makes the customer figure out the cashable dollar amounts when the deposit/bonus amounts are fixed. Of course, I could have live chatted for specifics but let's not go there...

Breaking it down:

Deposit 50, receive 1919, play with 1969 (easy enough).
Wagering is 150x = 295,350 (highest WR I've ever seen)
24 hours to complete wagering (won't be sleeping, just spinning)
Noncashable bonus (of course)
.02 minimum cashout = 88.38 (had to get the calculator)
.10422 max cashout = 200 (good thing calculator is handy)

I had to copy and paste - screenshot was horrible.
-------------------------------------------------

Get a 1919.00% bonus on your next deposit!

Minimum deposit: $50.00 Maximum bonus amount: $1919. The following deposit methods qualify: Moneybookers, NETeller, EcoCard, Click 2 Pay, Standard Cheque, Credit Card, Use My Bank, ACH, eWalletXpress, QuickTender, Credit Card, Credit Card, ClickandBuy, Ukash, Credit Card, Credit Card, Credit Card

Promotion times out after 24 hours and 0 minutes. Player must meet playthrough requirements within the time limit.

This promotion has a time limit which starts when the promotion is activated. The promotion will automatically complete when the time limit expires.

150.00x (deposit+bonus) playthrough

Playthrough is the amount that must be wagered (put at risk) before you may cashout. It is a multiple of your deposit or a multiple of your deposit plus the bonus. For example, "20x deposit" on a deposit of $100 means playthrough is $2000. "20x deposit + bonus wagering" on a deposit of $100 with a bonus of $100 means playthrough is $4000.

Unless otherwise stated, 1 credit wagered in a game counts as 1 credit toward playthrough requirements. Play at the following games, and any variants, does not count towards playthrough requirements and winnings may be considered null and void: Roulette, Blackjack, Sicbo, RedDog, Baccarat, PaiGow, War, ThreeCard, LetItRide, Videopoker, Craps, DoubleUp, CaribStud, ScratchCard, Slot Progressive.

Bonus money is not withdrawable. The bonus will be deducted from your next withdrawal.

If your balance is less than the amount of the bonus you will not be able to withdraw.

0.02x minimum cashout

You may only cashout amounts greater than your deposit plus 0.02 times the bonus. For example, if you deposit $100 and receive a $100 bonus with a 1x cashout, you may cashout any amount greater than $200. Additional deposits, reversals, bonuses or comp point redemptions do not count towards this minimum cashout restriction.

A maximum cashout of 0.10422 times the bonus applies.

A maximum cashout applies. For example, if you receive a $10 bonus and the maximum cashout is 10x the bonus your maximum cashout is $100. Any balance remaining after your cashout will be removed from your account.

Any funds over the maximum cashable amount will be removed automatically on cashout.

 

[incrediblestuff]

indeed i did take this bonus too: was my premiere on a rival software.
failed hardcore, and if i had had a calculator at hand i wouldnt have taken the trouble o.0
anyhow...
totally agree on the recipe!

 

[SlotMonster]

Deposit 50, receive 1919, play with 1969 (easy enough).
Wagering is 150x = 295,350 (highest WR I've ever seen)
24 hours to complete wagering (won't be sleeping, just spinning)
Noncashable bonus (of course)
.02 minimum cashout = 88.38 (had to get the calculator)
.10422 max cashout = 200 (good thing calculator is handy)

Thanks God i', not taking bonuses from casinos anymore Playing with with this bonus would be a nightmare, but not fun. And it must be FUN!

To wager 295,350 in 24 hours, you will have to make $12.306 bet every hour, or $205 every minute, or $3.41 every second. I doubt anyone could complete the WR for this bonus. Well, I'm sure noone is going to take it.

 

[incrediblestuff]

thanks for calling me a noone (nobody)

 

[DarkMage]

Thanks God i', not taking bonuses from casinos anymore Playing with with this bonus would be a nightmare, but not fun. And it must be FUN!

To wager 295,350 in 24 hours, you will have to make $12.306 bet every hour, or $205 every minute, or $3.41 every second. I doubt anyone could complete the WR for this bonus. Well, I'm sure noone is going to take it.

Wow that is just pure rogue when it is impossible to wager the amount needed in the timeframe.


Well..maybe you could do it if you put the slot on super fast mode...autospin at max bet..but the bonus rounds would slow you down...(but then again it's Rival...WHAT BONUS ROUNDS?)

Slap a not recommended on this one Casinomeister until they clean up their bonus tactics.

 

[Pinababy69]

To wager 295,350 in 24 hours, you will have to make $12.306 bet every hour, or $205 every minute, or $3.41 every second. I doubt anyone could complete the WR for this bonus. Well, I'm sure noone is going to take it.

People really should read this....it is IMPOSSIBLE to make WR on this bonus. There has been a discussion on this very bonus, or one similar to it in another thread. The best part is not just the ridiculous and insane WR, but the fact that they limited your bet amounts while you were using the bonus, lol. So you couldn't even bet $5 a spin on a slot..more like $2.50 or something like that. Thus, truly making it impossible to meet the playthrough. Can't remember which Rival it was...but does it matter? Could have been this one, could have been another one.

This is nothing more than a licence to steal $50 from each and every player who takes them up on this offer. I'd love to see evidence of ONE, just ONE, player who they say was successful and initiated a cashout.

 

[all4greed]

I didn't even figure out what bet increments I would need (just couldn't get past everything else involved). Even if I could do superfast spins, for whatever reason, all Rival casinos bog my computer down and after about 45 minutes I have to close the casino.

Maybe they could send me a new superquick, high memory computer to tackle their wacked out promos...

 

[SlotMonster]

Very, very bad tendency I see...bonuses are getting worse and worse, and it become harder and harder to find decent bonuses. I truly don't understand why casinos "forget" that bonuses are to prolong players' FUN, but not to cause agony about "have I completed WR or not???"
Knowing that WR are extremely high for the given bonus, and that I have absolutely no chance to complete it - this would discourage me from taking ANY bonus.

 

[KasinoKing]

Breaking it down:

Deposit 50, receive 1919, play with 1969 (easy enough).

Not that easy, obviously!
To get the full $1919 bonus you need to deposit $100, not $50.

To wager 295,350 in 24 hours, you will have to make $12.306 bet every hour, or $205 every minute, or $3.41 every second. I doubt anyone could complete the WR for this bonus. Well, I'm sure noone is going to take it.

That's only if you took the max bonus.
The terms say the Minimum deposit is $50.00... that would be a $959.50 bonus - only half the maximum.
So you would only need to spin at $1.70/second... for 24 hours straight!

I can think of 1,919 better ways to spend 24hrs!

KK

 

[shokaku]

So you would only need to spin at $1.70/second... for 24 hours straight!

Relax.

The Rival software offers an autospin feature.

 

[nisosbar]

Very, very bad tendency I see...bonuses are getting worse and worse, and it become harder and harder to find decent bonuses. I truly don't understand why casinos "forget" that bonuses are to prolong players' FUN, but not to cause agony about "have I completed WR or not???"
Knowing that WR are extremely high for the given bonus, and that I have absolutely no chance to complete it - this would discourage me from taking ANY bonus.

From what I have observed, it seems that online casinos make their money from not just the house edge, but in offering 'bonuses' that are mathematically punitive, designed to be better value for the casino than the player. And as the economy has worsened, the bonuses have become even MORE punitive. Thus, ever higher wagering requirements, lowered maximum cashout limits, and fine print restrictions/tricks on play that are enforced when you actually go to cashout ('oops, you played a hand of video poker - all your winnings are null and void').

Obviously, there are many casinos that aren't like that, but many others are just like that. We're even reading here about some casinos that put a wagering requirement on deposits you make even when you do not use a bonus!

Only play at CM-approved casinos, since CM has leverage to help you in the event a casino behaves unfairly to you.

 

[SlotMonster]

The Rival software offers an autospin feature.

Indeed. But the necessary bet size (~$1.7 per spin), an incredibly high WR and limited time leave no chance to wager the bonus. Like someone said, it's lust legal method to take players' money. Well, you must be an incredibly lucky (hitting 5 Wilds during Free Spins or something like that) to get something from this promotion.

UPD: You said it wery well, nisobar!

 

[love2winalot]

I can think of 1,919 better ways to spend 24hrs!

I do not believe you...... Please list those those 1,919 ways here, in sequence.........

 

[all4greed]

Not that easy, obviously!
To get the full $1919 bonus you need to deposit $100, not $50.
KK

Good catch! From now on I will forward all Rival offers to you and you can 'splain them to me...:notworthy

 

[Zoozie]

Rival bonuses

Rivals casinos has during the last year introduced the following into their bonuses:

1)Extremly high wagering-requirements
2)Timered bonuses
3)Non cashable bonuses
4)Max cashout

Of course each new restriction makes the situation worse for the players.

However there does not seem to be enough focus nor understanding of the effect of the "Max cashout" rule. This rule is more than 10 times
worse that all the other rules combined.

While 1) and 3) etc. does result in lower EV for the player they are still
playing against an effective house edge only defined by the game (5% for slots, 1% for videopoker etc). For players that does not cash out right after meeting wagering requirements the higher wagering requirements rule has lesser importance.

4) The max cashout is a hidden beast. Even with a max cashout of 10*times (which is higher than most max cashout restrictions) the effective house edge is increased by 5%-20% or even more. (It does depend on your bet size.)This is because when you finally cash-out you will be often be giving a high percentage of the winnings back due to the max cash out restriction.

So playing with a max cashout bonus you are actually playing a 75%-90% RTP slot or 80-95% RTP video poker game. It is in fact often extremely negative
EV to take a 100% non-cashable Rival bonus with max cashout - even if there are NO other requirements (like wagering requirements)! (This is because there also
are limitations on max bet, so playing roulette can not be used to exploit etc.)

It is deceptive and close to a scam. I hope Casinomeister and Max would be more agressive in warning against this trap. Of course you can say the players accepts the bonuses themself, but they do not know what they are up against.

Zoozie.

 

[Tengil]

Its certainly not impossible to meet the WR, max bet (37.50 or 50?). Thats the most EV+ way to play anyway.

The (2xdeposit) max cashout makes it totally worthless tough.

 

[Pinababy69]

Its certainly not impossible to meet the WR, max bet (37.50 or 50?). Thats the most EV+ way to play anyway.

The (2xdeposit) max cashout makes it totally worthless tough.

I'm pretty sure they limit the max bet to some absurd amount, like $2 a spin. They sure don't let you bet $37.50 or anything even close to it. That's what makes it impossible to meet the playthrough.

 

[KasinoKing]

Rivals casinos has during the last year introduced the following into their bonuses:

1)Extremely high wagering-requirements
2)Timered bonuses
3)Non cashable bonuses
4)Max cashout

This will make everyone laugh; yesterday Slots of Fortune (Rival) e-mailed all their affiliates about an "exclusive" 400% bonus they could offer to new players.
When I asked what the terms were, they replied with:

the bonus rules are:
400% bonus: (Deposit up to $50 for up to $200 bonus)
Sticky (Phantom)
Playthrough: 45X deposit + bonus
Max cashout: $1250

To which I replied:

For my websites I have a simple method of rating how good bonuses based on % amount, sticky or not and the WR; up until now the worst rating I have EVER seen is -1.33... the one above rates -6.39!

Seriously, this bonus is INSANE and I'm not going to make myself look stupid by advertising it on any of my sites!
FYI, even if it was Cashable, with that LUDICROUS x45 WR it would STILL be the worst bonus I have ever seen!

The maximum sensible WR for slots bonuses IMO is:-
(D+B)x15 if it is Phantom (Sticky) - but this needs to go lower as the % goes higher.
(D+B)x20 if it is Cashable. (7 Rival casinos offer this now, 9 others are LOWER)

Actually Slots of Fortune are one of the 7 casinos who have a (D+B)x20 Cashable bonus as standard - I'm pretty sure no-one wants an "exclusive" bonus which is 3 times worse!

KK

 

[zap987]

If the max cashout is still $1250 if you deposit the minimum $25 for $100 bonus it's a pretty good deal. The 45x WR doesn't matter much compared to the max cashout when it comes to determining the value of the bonus since you'll bust out with very little wagering most times but cash out 50 times your deposit a few times when you do get a good hit early on.

 

[KasinoKing]

If the max cashout is still $1250 if you deposit the minimum $25 for $100 bonus it's a pretty good deal. The 45x WR doesn't matter much compared to the max cashout when it comes to determining the value of the bonus since you'll bust out with very little wagering most times but cash out 50 times your deposit a few times when you do get a good hit early on.

Please can you explain how exactly you do this?
If you want to keep it private, please send me a PM and I'll promise to keep it confidential.

Thanks,
KK

 

[zap987]

A $25 deposit would give $100 bonus and a WR of $5625. Assuming 95% payout the expected loss would be around $280. Optimal would be to have $1250+deposit $25+bonus $100=$1375 when meeting WR. So my goal would be to get up to a bit under $2000 or bust out fast trying on a high variance slot, then switch to a lower variance slot to complete wagering.

One way for example would be to start on Spy Game, betting $3.75 or $7.50 per spin since a good bonus pays about 250x bet and does happen reasonably often, then if I do get up some good hits lower my bet to $0.75-$1.50 on some lower variance slot. Lower bets would be better with a max cashout since there is no way to win more, but it would also take a lot of spinning and be quite boring.

Some of the time you'll have a bad run and end up under the target for max cashout but still a nice win, sometimes you'll keep winning and waste rtp by max cashout but overall it should be +EV for the player.

 

[Wildfire7]

If the max cashout is still $1250 if you deposit the minimum $25 for $100 bonus it's a pretty good deal. The 45x WR doesn't matter much compared to the max cashout when it comes to determining the value of the bonus since you'll bust out with very little wagering most times but cash out 50 times your deposit a few times when you do get a good hit early on.

If this were the case then why would you need to take a bonus in the first place? If your only hope of meeting playthrough is to get a good hit early on, then the bonus technically speaking hasn't even been played.

You could achieve the same scenario without a bonus, so what is the point in taking an offer like this, if as you say you'll bust out most of the time.

Mike

 

[zap987]

$125 gives a lot more chances for a good hit than $25 if spinning at fairly high bets.

 

[incrediblestuff]

agreed, only im not sure, wasnt rival the platform where now you are confonted with a max bet of 1$?
cause then it wouldnt hold up.
i could be confused, i mainly play MG so...
just flapped it out here, feel free to bash me down ^^

 

[KasinoKing]

agreed, only im not sure, wasnt rival the platform where now you are confonted with a max bet of 1$?
cause then it wouldnt hold up.
i could be confused, i mainly play MG so...
just flapped it out here, feel free to bash me down ^^

oke:
Bashed enough?
No, Rival do not have $1 limits on their slots during bonus play.

KK