Providers moving the goal posts

[Jono777]

I know... it was like some conspiracy theorists who believed that demo mode in a provider had a far greater RTP than real mode.

And, they were wron, sorry, correct

Crazy talk indeed

To be honest I was AMAZED at how long that took for someone to sit up and take notice (You're referring to Dunover n Co thread and the GameArt slots I assume?)

This was obvious YEARS ago lol, the old Microgaming CR download casinos where you got an hour's free play and then deposited to collect your bonus. I tried my hardest and it was simply IMPOSSIBLE to lose on the hour's "free play" Features galore, 5OAK premiums here, there and everywhere, really misleading

 

[goatwack]

I know... it was like some conspiracy theorists who believed that demo mode in a provider had a far greater RTP than real mode.

And, they were wron, sorry, correct

Crazy talk indeed

There's also a third, less talked-about one, namely the DeepFake Server

That's only BTG though

 

[pinnit2014]

It’s like Opal Fruits: played on the comp that BTG ran and couldn’t lose my balance in 2 DAYS. When I deposited, 20 minutes.

OJ - I know BTG would never cross ethical lines

 

[snorky510238]

Same when they ran weekly comps on the FOBTS. You would get crazy scores with the free play. Win the comp get your £50 of free spins and you were lucky to win a fiver. Same thing happened every week.

 

[Greigssy]

I don't play Thunderkick slots very often, it always alarms me when I see the Version 2.1 or something on their slots, why all those updates.

As for providers moving the goalposts, they've all jumped on the Bonanza bandwagon of thinking it's acceptable to have a slot averaging over 400 spins for a bonus trigger.
But unlike Bonanza the bonuses aren't averaging any higher than before.

Then there's Blueprint Megaways who on their last two releases have dropped the RTP to 95% from 96-96.5% on their first batch of releases.

I just played Tiki Megaways which seems to be a direct clone of Buffalo Megaways, Buffalo is 96.5% and Tiki is 95% and you can definitely see the difference in the the game play.

 

[Kroffe]

I don't play Thunderkick slots very often, it always alarms me when I see the Version 2.1 or something on their slots, why all those updates.

As for providers moving the goalposts, they've all jumped on the Bonanza bandwagon of thinking it's acceptable to have a slot averaging over 400 spins for a bonus trigger.
But unlike Bonanza the bonuses aren't averaging any higher than before.

Then there's Blueprint Megaways who on their last two releases have dropped the RTP to 95% from 96-96.5% on their first batch of releases.

I just played Tiki Megaways which seems to be a direct clone of Buffalo Megaways, Buffalo is 96.5% and Tiki is 95% and you can definitely see the difference in the the game play.

Isnt the drop in rtp on Tiki because of the jackpot king thingy thats active when you play it?
Or is the rtp 95% even with the jackpots included?

 

[Greigssy]

Isnt the drop in rtp on Tiki because of the jackpot king thingy thats active when you play it?
Or is the rtp 95% even with the jackpots included?

I'm not sure, it says on the landing screen 95% so I guess it might have taken the jackpot contribution into consideration but if not then it will play lower than 95% which is even worse.

 

[JGslots]

SG need to look closer to home, slots that are capable of paying big, whilst still being fun. God I miss this slot, I have no idea why they discontinued this one.

Rob

 

[lotusch]

I was about to open a very similar thread a few days ago but I did not do it yet.
In my case I strongly believe Quickspin did change their slots, the way they have distributed the payouts, frequency of bonus features etc etc.
I play Quickspin a lot and have had some really nice hits on them.
Particularly I love Hot Sync and Ivan & The Immortal King and have played these slots many many many times.

I have checked the versions of these slots and they all have been changed to a newer version over the past months.
Asked even the Quickspin rep that was on here for a short while about this but he said nothing had changed.

Well the slots did change, I have noticed this clearly.

Especially Ivan & The Immortal King was for me a cash machine when it first came out.
Free Spins easy to trigger and in the free spins coins to upgrade multiplier and add free spins were coming in quite regularly.
And then the good witch was always up to even save you on your last spin and toss around some coins.

Now it is nearly impossible to trigger the free spins as the scatters seem awol on the reels and if 2 land, the third hardly comes in.
Also no witch to add that third scatter.

When the free spins land there are simply no coins coming in and I even triggered the FS a few days ago with the max start value 18 spins with x3 multiplier, I though I was in for a good win but 0!!!!!!! coins in 18 spins and it paid only 19x bet!!!
On average I got 50-100x bet wins on the free spins quite often, now it is reduced to 10x-20x and the free spins occur not half as much as they used to do.

I am not sure what to think of this.

Hot Sync similar, synced reels hardly connect and in the free spins they do hardly show at all.

I have played these slots tens of thousands of spins and I DO SEE they have changed, it is not in my mind.
They play completely different however the RTP% seem not to have changed.

It is nearly liked they upped the volatility of these slots, so lesser frequent FS and lesser medium wins to put those towards bigger wins if that makes sense.

I would love to hear from Quickspin about this and might PM the rep if he is still around.

I love their slots, very slick and nice music on most of them and I play them because of the good chances of a feature and 50-100x wins used to be quite the norm for features.

A shame really.

Did somebody else here share the same feeling?

 

[lotusch]

SG need to look closer to home, slots that are capable of paying big, whilst still being fun. God I miss this slot, I have no idea why they discontinued this one.

Rob

Aaaah yes I had a very big win on that one years ago, if I still have the screenshot om my external HD I will post it.
Loved that slot too.

Also I can see a lot of casinos are pulling the old suite of WMS slots in favour of all these crappy new ones from SG.
Even Bruce Lee, Ruby Slippers, Zeus I, Zeus III, Amazon Queen, Jackpot Party, Bierhaus seem getting more and more scarce these days.

 

[Guntis]

its been said before but raging rhino has defo changed since html version came out

I reckon the same happened to Montezuma as well. A couple of years ago it used to be my favourite slot to get an almost guaranteed balance boost.
The slot used to give a bonus feature within first 20-70 spins and the payout was always decent.
I knew on the behaviour of this slot very well and could easily determine when to play it and when not.

After winning some on Montezuma I used to go to 300 Shields and play with money that I got from Montezuma. If I had lost I used to play Montezuma again.
The same process I used to repeat until I get 4 digits x multiplier on 300 Shields. Believe me, In one year time, I had around 20-30 of them and I played only every 2 weeks

Back to nowadays. Since that time it's like a habit for me (but it slowly goes away) - every time I play in a casino I play Montezuma at least once... But the difference today is that this slot behaves totally different as used to before.

Sometimes it can take 500-700 spins without the bonus feature (no BS- it has happened to me a few times) and then show an error message.
As a rule nowadays with this slot - if even the bonus comes, the result for the most of time is "favourite" 10x or under. The 2-3 out of 10 times the bonus feature pays between 15-30x

Such changes between past and present are obvious to those who have been playing their favourite slot games for long but it's completely unknown to new players and the game developers know that very well.

 

[trancemonkey]

Yeah I used to play GOT a lot and since it was revamped it’s gone awful. Tbh I have stopped playing it. Also the pooled theory is something I totally believe in. Look at the list from Casumo of big winners. They all come from games with a high volume of money going through them. I know people say it’s because more people are playing it we will see a wider range of outcomes but I believe first and foremost it’s all down to volume of dosh.

Once a game loses popularity the provider screws it down as far as possible and they probably look at it as anything it makes is a bonus.

People who believe everything is checked as being as said and fair and square are living in pixie land. Can anybody tell me the name of the company who goes around auditing these casinos and checking all the games are paying the correct rtp because if they exist I want to apply for a job there and see just what goes on.

It must be a massive organisation that goes around several hundred casinos, some of which have well in excess of a thousand games and goes through every single one with a fine tooth comb to ensure that each game is performing correctly.

Time has finally caught up with the FOBTS, it’s still a bit behind this industry. The other thing that is frightening is I played most of those sessions on low stakes and the actual play and game time was horrific believe me but the scariest thing is if someone playing max stake had my sessions they would of lost £100,000 in approximately 4 hours with the biggest base hit I think was x15 and 5 bonus rounds. Never at any point did I hit a patch where I recouped some of the money then lost it again. It was just beyond brutal.

Like I said it’s not the money that’s the issue it’s the principle of what is going on and the way the playing field isn’t as level as you think. There’s a difference between losing and being mugged.

GLI & BMM are the two biggest test houses with offices all over the world. Feel free to apply

Then come back and tell us how you discovered it was all rigged and you were right...

Or the exact opposite

 

[trancemonkey]

If a game's been simulated to be 96% over millions of spins then unless, as mentioned, the games were tested every minute of every day (yeah) then I also believe certain companies use this buffer zone to shave a couple of % off as it's not an exact science anyway. They'll just put it down to 'margin of error'

It is called standard deviation, and we know exactly what tolerance can be expected and accepted given any number of games played. And casinos have to monitor RTPs and report anything out the ordinary to the UKGC if my understanding is correct

And @snorky510238 ... people don't visit casinos and physically walk up to every machine, it is all done via casino systems electronically.

 

[trancemonkey]

well, im not saying its necessarily easy, but it could be changed under the hood and not change rtp; you could change the volatitiliy and have the same rtp i suppose
@trancemonkey could speak toward how easily that would be to align

It is remarkably easy to make a game have the exact same RTP, but play completely differently. Depends of course how good your maths is. But on a game as old as Birds On A Wire... not sure what good changing it would do.

 

[The Reel Story]

For information, the allowable tolerances under UKGC (this changes depending on the volatility of a game, but gives you a good idea).

Number of games played	Range +/- in % from the mean*
50000	+/-	4.90862
100000	+/-	3.47092
200000	+/-	2.45431
300000	+/-	2.00393
400000	+/-	1.73546
500000	+/-	1.55224
600000	+/-	1.41700
700000	+/-	1.31188
800000	+/-	1.22715
900000	+/-	1.15697
1000000	+/-	1.09760

 

[trancemonkey]

For information, the allowable tolerances under UKGC (this changes depending on the volatility of a game, but gives you a good idea).

Number of games played	Range +/- in % from the mean*
50000	+/-	4.90862
100000	+/-	3.47092
200000	+/-	2.45431
300000	+/-	2.00393
400000	+/-	1.73546
500000	+/-	1.55224
600000	+/-	1.41700
700000	+/-	1.31188
800000	+/-	1.22715
900000	+/-	1.15697
1000000	+/-	1.09760

That could change a lot depending on volatility, whether you had a progressive, etc. Do they specify the volatility to go with those numbers?

 

[The Reel Story]

That could change a lot depending on volatility, whether you had a progressive, etc. Do they specify the volatility to go with those numbers?

Standard Deviation of 5.6 for that example.

 

[9HOURSAWAY]

its been said before but raging rhino has defo changed since html version came out

I play Raging Rhino a lot, an awful lot and to be fair I'm in profit over around the last 6 weeks to the tune of just over 13k, I have had the odd session where you wait ages for a bonus, and even then it's probably bonus guarantee, but when it wants to pay big, it does pay big. Maybe I've just been lucky?

 

[judgenico]

I play Raging Rhino a lot, an awful lot and to be fair I'm in profit over around the last 6 weeks to the tune of just over 13k, I have had the odd session where you wait ages for a bonus, and even then it's probably bonus guarantee, but when it wants to pay big, it does pay big. Maybe I've just been lucky?

maybe i was just lucky in the beginning playing the rhino but honestly played it loads both versions ive never played a slot that has been so inconsistent

 

[trancemonkey]

maybe i was just lucky in the beginning playing the rhino but honestly played it loads both versions ive never played a slot that has been so inconsistent

Inconsistent... as if it were somehow random?

 

[goatwack]

'Pseudo-random'

 

[snorky510238]

Psycho random

 

[goatwack]

Rsycho Pandom

 

[Kroffe]

Rsycho Pandom

I am pretty sure that is not how you spell that.
But dont worry, pobody is nerfect.

 

[Kroffe]

I am pretty sure that is not how you spell that.
But dont worry, pobody is nerfect.

How do you react with the "haha" thingy?
I only have "thanks" and the normal thumbs up.