Providers moving the goal posts

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Ok I know I am a tinfoiler but usually I can live with reel sets being changed blah blah and whatever else is considered legitimate in this world of invisible governing bodies.

However this one has really got me questioning whether I trust any of it anymore.

Now I play the same games over and over so I have a very good feel of how a slot plays when it’s hot, cold or indifferent. Birds on a wire is a game I have played solid (pretty much every day for 2 years).

Wednesday teatime I log into a casino and found it wouldn’t load. A quick check around others told me it was unavailable. Later that night when I got home it was up and running again.

The bonus frequency on this game is fairly high and it’s unusual not to hit it in 50 to 100 spins but a lot of them obviously pay very low but now and again you hit some reasonably good ones.

I deposit and play expecting minimum 1 bonus (it’s not unusual to hit 3 or 4). Result no bonus ok try again. Deposit gone in seconds again no bonus. I repeat the process 4 times until I think something isn’t right here.

Tried 2 deposits at another casino, same outcome. Then another and another where I hit the bonus twice but returns were minimal. Ok put it down to a bad night.

Tried twice more last night. No bonus. Now I am beginning to wonder what’s happened here so this afternoon I put it to the test another 6 deposits at one of the casinos and 5 at another. Result not 1 single bonus and no base game either (not that that’s unusual).

I have played this game for too long to be able to accept that as playing normally. It’s not sour grapes from the money side of things. I won most of it on Bonanza and I don’t gamble beyond my means.

Whatever the reason for that game being unavailable on Wednesday it did not come back the slot it was. When I say it was absolutely shocking I am being restrained and kind. I don’t mind losing fair and square but this felt like I was being held down and kicked to death by a hundred dwarfs.

You probably think I am exaggerating, tbh if I read this knowing the game prior I wouldn’t believe it so feel free @Casumo, @Videoslots, @SlotsMillion and @Unibet please post my gameplay in as much detail as possible. Actually I urge you to do so. You have my full permission to post it on the forum as a way of backing up what I am saying.

Not blaming the casinos for 1 minute it’s the underhanded providers that are pulling the strokes.
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
CAG
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
On a lesser scale, because I don't play it quite as much anymore, I know that Georgie Porgie's had his wad tightened.

It was always a good bankroll-builder and certainly great for playtime. Used to play it religiously....that is, until now, because it's gone stone-cold dead!

Last four deposits straight turned to ashes, no base game, long, arbitrary waits for bonuses, and when they do arrive it's sub-10x (if lucky) :eek2:

I don't see how games can swing so wildly in variance over short sessions, I fail to accept that, sorry. Hundreds of thousand spins you'll see mild spikes - this is not that :laugh:

Same as MG's 9-liners, they're all flat as a pancake too. Which also lends credence to the 'pooled' theory, as likely less punters are playing these games now, and so those that do are simply filling up MG's coffers :cool:
 

johnnybagel

Full Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Location
Manchester
If a game is changed under the hood then surely this needs to be noted somewhere? Wouldn't it change the RTP?

I might have tested it in demo play if I was suspicious though, rather than using real money.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
On a lesser scale, because I don't play it quite as much anymore, I know that Georgie Porgie's had his wad tightened.

It was always a good bankroll-builder and certainly great for playtime. Used to play it religiously....that is, until now, because it's gone stone-cold dead!

Last four deposits straight turned to ashes, no base game, long, arbitrary waits for bonuses, and when they do arrive it's sub-10x (if lucky) :eek2:

I don't see how games can swing so wildly in variance over short sessions, I fail to accept that, sorry. Hundreds of thousand spins you'll see mild spikes - this is not that :laugh:

Same as MG's 9-liners, they're all flat as a pancake too. Which also lends credence to the 'pooled' theory, as likely less punters are playing these games now, and so those that do are simply filling up MG's coffers :cool:
Yeah I used to play GOT a lot and since it was revamped it’s gone awful. Tbh I have stopped playing it. Also the pooled theory is something I totally believe in. Look at the list from Casumo of big winners. They all come from games with a high volume of money going through them. I know people say it’s because more people are playing it we will see a wider range of outcomes but I believe first and foremost it’s all down to volume of dosh.

Once a game loses popularity the provider screws it down as far as possible and they probably look at it as anything it makes is a bonus.

People who believe everything is checked as being as said and fair and square are living in pixie land. Can anybody tell me the name of the company who goes around auditing these casinos and checking all the games are paying the correct rtp because if they exist I want to apply for a job there and see just what goes on.

It must be a massive organisation that goes around several hundred casinos, some of which have well in excess of a thousand games and goes through every single one with a fine tooth comb to ensure that each game is performing correctly.

Time has finally caught up with the FOBTS, it’s still a bit behind this industry. The other thing that is frightening is I played most of those sessions on low stakes and the actual play and game time was horrific believe me but the scariest thing is if someone playing max stake had my sessions they would of lost £100,000 in approximately 4 hours with the biggest base hit I think was x15 and 5 bonus rounds. Never at any point did I hit a patch where I recouped some of the money then lost it again. It was just beyond brutal.

Like I said it’s not the money that’s the issue it’s the principle of what is going on and the way the playing field isn’t as level as you think. There’s a difference between losing and being mugged.
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
CAG
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
If a game is changed under the hood then surely this needs to be noted somewhere? Wouldn't it change the RTP?

I might have tested it in demo play if I was suspicious though, rather than using real money.
I'm sure there are more changes afoot than we care to realise. How many slots are patched/ updated without our knowledge, only to play completely differently after!

Much like video games, they'll buff certain character classes and gimp others, causing much outrage among players too :laugh: so that knight you thought you had in your pocket suddenly starts pulling out Chuck Norris moves and you end up flinging the controller at the cat :eek2:

It can't be coincidence as far as I can see. Only reason to patch software would be to change the gameplay or 'balance out' certain things, just don't go expecting developers to release patch notes in the Evening Standard or when the game loads up. Or what the changes are :cool:
 
Last edited:

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Yes exactly! If it had been at just one casino on one evening even though I would of been suspicious I would have had to overlook it but 4 different casinos 3 days running and the game plays 20 times worse on every occasion in comparison to anything I have seen in 2 years. The evidence is overwhelming. Oh and it just happened to be immediately after the game returned after being unavailable:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 23, 2013
Location
Cumbria
Ok I know I am a tinfoiler but usually I can live with reel sets being changed blah blah and whatever else is considered legitimate in this world of invisible governing bodies.

However this one has really got me questioning whether I trust any of it anymore.

Now I play the same games over and over so I have a very good feel of how a slot plays when it’s hot, cold or indifferent. Birds on a wire is a game I have played solid (pretty much every day for 2 years).

Wednesday teatime I log into a casino and found it wouldn’t load. A quick check around others told me it was unavailable. Later that night when I got home it was up and running again.

The bonus frequency on this game is fairly high and it’s unusual not to hit it in 50 to 100 spins but a lot of them obviously pay very low but now and again you hit some reasonably good ones.

I deposit and play expecting minimum 1 bonus (it’s not unusual to hit 3 or 4). Result no bonus ok try again. Deposit gone in seconds again no bonus. I repeat the process 4 times until I think something isn’t right here.

Tried 2 deposits at another casino, same outcome. Then another and another where I hit the bonus twice but returns were minimal. Ok put it down to a bad night.

Tried twice more last night. No bonus. Now I am beginning to wonder what’s happened here so this afternoon I put it to the test another 6 deposits at one of the casinos and 5 at another. Result not 1 single bonus and no base game either (not that that’s unusual).

I have played this game for too long to be able to accept that as playing normally. It’s not sour grapes from the money side of things. I won most of it on Bonanza and I don’t gamble beyond my means.

Whatever the reason for that game being unavailable on Wednesday it did not come back the slot it was. When I say it was absolutely shocking I am being restrained and kind. I don’t mind losing fair and square but this felt like I was being held down and kicked to death by a hundred dwarfs.

You probably think I am exaggerating, tbh if I read this knowing the game prior I wouldn’t believe it so feel free @Casumo, @Videoslots, @SlotsMillion and @Unibet please post my gameplay in as much detail as possible. Actually I urge you to do so. You have my full permission to post it on the forum as a way of backing up what I am saying.

Not blaming the casinos for 1 minute it’s the underhanded providers that are pulling the strokes.
Thunderkick did change their games 'play', and RTP a few years ago. So there's nothing saying they haven't done it again.
Thunderkick lowers their RTP and changes GUI!
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
CAG
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
Yes exactly! If it had been at just one casino on one evening even though I would of been suspicious I would have had to overlook it but 4 different casinos 3 days running and the game plays 20 times worse on every occasion in comparison to anything I have seen in 2 years. The evidence is overwhelming. Oh and it just happened to be immediately after the game returned after being unavailable:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.
Probably just bad luck, as they say
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
If a game is changed under the hood then surely this needs to be noted somewhere? Wouldn't it change the RTP?

I might have tested it in demo play if I was suspicious though, rather than using real money.
Changing the rtp is something I have thought about. It depends on how it’s been patched but even if these games are tested and audited to the degree we are led to believe (and I massively doubt it) then say a game that was supposed to be running at 96% had been tweaked down to 94% upon checking it I am sure it would be within tolerance so to speak.

There would have to be a grey area as not every game would be spot on. Just imagine every game running at just 0.5% below the expected rtp, this would be worth millions to providers/casinos and surely again within tolerance. On the flip side a game running at 2% less would make a huge difference on returns to the player.

As for demo mode I don’t trust that either, call me a cynical old (choose you words) but there is no substitute for experience and I have a top CV where that’s concerned.
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
CAG
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
If a game's been simulated to be 96% over millions of spins then unless, as mentioned, the games were tested every minute of every day (yeah) then I also believe certain companies use this buffer zone to shave a couple of % off as it's not an exact science anyway. They'll just put it down to 'margin of error'
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Thunderkick did change their games 'play', and RTP a few years ago. So there's nothing saying they haven't done it again.
Thunderkick lowers their RTP and changes GUI!
Cheers for that @brianmon I have read the first part. Glad you pointed that out. Interestingly because my mobile encounters a few problems playing online when it wouldn’t bring the game up on the menu, I tried falcon huntress to see if it was an issue with thunderkick games and that wouldn’t pop up either so maybe there are more (or all games affected).

I didn’t persist I just loaded Casumo where it’s on my recently played list and there it actually said temporarily unavailable. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who plays a particular thunderkick game religiously to see if they have noticed anything.

I have had my suspicions about other games recently also. None more so than Diamond mine. This game certainly doesn’t play like it used to for me but I don’t play it as much as other games so thought maybe it was just bad luck.

Tbh as much as I am a tinfoiler I had learnt to live with explanations given for this and that and generally never felt to hard done by. As much as I love slotting I am seriously considering stopping after this experience.
 

Playford7

Meister Member
MM
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Location
North east England
Ok I know I am a tinfoiler but usually I can live with reel sets being changed blah blah and whatever else is considered legitimate in this world of invisible governing bodies.

However this one has really got me questioning whether I trust any of it anymore.

Now I play the same games over and over so I have a very good feel of how a slot plays when it’s hot, cold or indifferent. Birds on a wire is a game I have played solid (pretty much every day for 2 years).

Wednesday teatime I log into a casino and found it wouldn’t load. A quick check around others told me it was unavailable. Later that night when I got home it was up and running again.

The bonus frequency on this game is fairly high and it’s unusual not to hit it in 50 to 100 spins but a lot of them obviously pay very low but now and again you hit some reasonably good ones.

I deposit and play expecting minimum 1 bonus (it’s not unusual to hit 3 or 4). Result no bonus ok try again. Deposit gone in seconds again no bonus. I repeat the process 4 times until I think something isn’t right here.

Tried 2 deposits at another casino, same outcome. Then another and another where I hit the bonus twice but returns were minimal. Ok put it down to a bad night.

Tried twice more last night. No bonus. Now I am beginning to wonder what’s happened here so this afternoon I put it to the test another 6 deposits at one of the casinos and 5 at another. Result not 1 single bonus and no base game either (not that that’s unusual).

I have played this game for too long to be able to accept that as playing normally. It’s not sour grapes from the money side of things. I won most of it on Bonanza and I don’t gamble beyond my means.

Whatever the reason for that game being unavailable on Wednesday it did not come back the slot it was. When I say it was absolutely shocking I am being restrained and kind. I don’t mind losing fair and square but this felt like I was being held down and kicked to death by a hundred dwarfs.

You probably think I am exaggerating, tbh if I read this knowing the game prior I wouldn’t believe it so feel free @Casumo, @Videoslots, @SlotsMillion and @Unibet please post my gameplay in as much detail as possible. Actually I urge you to do so. You have my full permission to post it on the forum as a way of backing up what I am saying.

Not blaming the casinos for 1 minute it’s the underhanded providers that are pulling the strokes.
In all honesty I like birds on a wire but find it as hard as a porn stars ‘prop’ to bonus the majority of the time
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
In all honesty I like birds on a wire but find it as hard as a porn stars ‘prop’ to bonus the majority of the time
Yeah it could take a while sometimes and then pay crap when it did come but this was a completely different experience believe me. It’s a complete killer now.
 

dionysus

Contest Manager
Staff member
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
If a game is changed under the hood then surely this needs to be noted somewhere? Wouldn't it change the RTP?

I might have tested it in demo play if I was suspicious though, rather than using real money.
well, im not saying its necessarily easy, but it could be changed under the hood and not change rtp; you could change the volatitiliy and have the same rtp i suppose
@trancemonkey could speak toward how easily that would be to align
 

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